Random: Epic Goes To War With Apple, Asks Players To "Join The Fight" And "Free Fortnite"

Hopefully they take Apple down a peg or two. I type using my iPhone.

Watching two major companies slug each other brings a smile to my face.

#LetThemFight

Apple banned Fortnite for lowering their prices to give players better deals. That is the embodiment of corperate greed.

Never liked Apple. They been anti-consumer since their iPhone 4 and "you're holding it wrong" and their denial of faulty graphics card in Macbook Pro 15 (which they finally acknowledged).

It'd be a nice way to troll Apple if Epic started funding the other sides of various Apple petty legal cases, like that recent one with the pear logo.

I'm surprised the EU hasn't sanctioned Apple for their monopoly strategies. They're usually right on top of these things.
They did so for Google and Facebook for example.

@patbacknitro18 It's more like Epic found a way to circumvent Apple's payment system and now tricks consumers into buying all of this (pun intended). It's not about lowering the cost for consumers, it's all about generating more revenue for Epic.

Just look at the numbers: Apple takes 30% of revenue generated. Epic bypasses Apple and reduces prices by 20%. In a way they're just screwing over Apple for their own good, because Epic's net revenue will be higher now.

And look, neither companies need the money, both are greedy AF, but there's something to be said about using one ecosystem (iOS), without paying for it at all (since Fortnite is a free game too). So this is more like tax evasion.

For those not aware, the Fortnite video is a parody of Apple's famous "1984" Macintosh commercial.

https://youtu.be/VtvjbmoDx-I

I really like this fight! I'm just 100% sure that epic is not the liberation angel it wants us to believe. In the end, it's all about having the profit for themselves and not sharing Fort it's success with anyone. The whole "passing savings to consumers" is almost always "fake". Companies only do this if it means no loss or more profit, which is reasonable and crucial for a company to survive.

So let's see where this will go

Bah... they can both destroy themselves in the fight

@Octane the thing is, Fortnite did find a way to circumvate their system....because Apple overcharges their crap. Meanwhile Epic just permanently dropped the price of ingame itsems by 20%. Even though Epic could have just charged the same as Apple on their own terns, they refused to be that greedy

@patbacknitro18 No, that's the thing, it's the illusion. That's why this stuff works and is so brilliant. Because Epic knows that all the consumers will side with them. But in the end it's just a fight between Epic and Apple.

Realistically, this means that Apple will see no revenue from Fortnite/Epic if all their payments bypass Apple's system. So why allow Epic to make billions on your ecosystem? In a way, Apple has every right to block them. Like I said, this is like tax evasion, but on another level. And their using the general public to fight it out for them.

@patbacknitro18 it looks like that, but that's not exactly true.
According to epic, Apple takes a 30% share/charge of payments made in apps, like in-game purchases DLC and so on.
Means, if you buy $9.99 V-Bucks, roughly $3 go into Apples pockets and only $7 to epic.

Now you would suggest that, by using the epic direct payment, the price for the customer would reduce to $7, as they can circle around the 30% fee of Apple. But if you check Screenshots of the store when it was still available, epic was actually charging $7.99, which is only 20% lower.
So they definitely would benefit from their new direct payment and it's not about passing all the savings to the consumer as they want you to believe.

They purposefully baited apple into a lawsuit. They made the new pay method, a few hours later the game was handled by apple, then a full cinematic animation was made, which was clearly made way beforehand. Not a very smart move to get your army of under 12 year old players to get involved with serious company biz either

Ken Watanabe "Let them fight".gif

I understand the main reason for Apples policy is to get a share of the payments, but I can imagine there are also security reasons for not allowing apps to charge their users without going through the appstore.

@Octane you are forgetting 1 teenie tiny bit of info.......its not between JUST them. Epic is fighting for ALL of the developers on the Apple store. Epic is fighting against the monopoly on ALL of the games there. This isnt a fight about just Fortnite, this is a fight for developers and consumers alike. To force Apple to change their way of doing this, so that everyone may benefit.

@patbacknitro18 Like I said, that's what they want you to think. They really don't care about that. It's all about filling their own pockets. But by dressing themselves up as the good guy, and having the consumers fight for them, they hardly have to do anything, and they will probably win this. It's brilliant marketing really...

This is so incredibly funny. No, Epic, we will not be joining your corporate greed scheme.

it's literally just a ploy to get more money in their pockets.

Simple quickmaffs:

$10 purchase - Apple gets $3 (30%), Epic gets $7 (70%).

Bypassing Apple platform:

$10 purchase - Apple gets $0 (0%), Epic gets $8 (100%) (post -20% discount)

Net profit for Apple:

-30%

Net profit for Epic:

+14.29%

It is 100% a move meant to increase Epic revenue.

@patbacknitro18 No, Apple banned Fortnite for violating the rules on purpose and Epic new with out a doubt that this would happen.

I find it hilarious that Epic is rallying the internet over their game being pulled from the App Store when they just recently announced they're pulling Rocket League from Steam (they also canceled Mac/Linux support for it, meaning anyone who played with those OSes are just out of luck) and they've also paid off indie/third party development studios to cancel Steam releases at the last minute and make their games EGS exclusives for up to a year. Only Fortnite needs to be freed, eh Epic?

@mazzel Actually, they applied a 20% savings across ALL platforms. And while your right, they will still profit off if this. Keep in mind, they didnt have to lower the price at all. They could have kept the price the same, allowing them to make a ton more money off sales all together. Some assume that this is some clever blue pill tactic to manipulate players, but to what end? To side against Apples corperate gred? Yea that seems like such a bad thing to side against.

@countzero Actually you have that backwards. What Epic did was within Apples guidlines. The problem is, Apple got really salty about it since Fortnite is such a money bank. Apple was the one who broke the rules by banning Fortnite, thats why Epic is sueing Apple. Because Apple broke their own agreements.

Who do I side with if I dislike both companies?

I like Apple less now that I have an iPhone.

I’m a retailer. If I was giving a product away for free, but then making profit on refills for it and the supplier then told my customers to circumvent my shop and buy the refills from them, I wouldn’t be distributing the free thing any more.

No matter if you think 30% is too steep (that’s about what a food retailer marks up it’s products), Apple does have costs it has to pay like staff and servers and advertising (probably not much in tax however)- and heck, they’ve made something people like so why shouldn’t they reap the reward.

Epic has the right to sell what they produce wherever they want for whatever price, but they shouldn’t expect other companies to just stand by while they renege on their agreement and stop paying their rent to be on those services.

@nessisonett google play also removed them hows that going for you?

google play also removed epics stupidity. hows that going for you?

Epic are also suing Google.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21368363/epic-google-fortnite-lawsuit-antitrust-app-play-store-apple-removal

If I understood the article correctly when users buy stuff using Epic's new app which doesn't involve the appstore they don't have to give Apple the 30% cut they otherwise would have. They then lowered prices by 20% so they are still making more than before.

@patbacknitro18 google play also removed them hows that working out for you?

TikTok and Fortnite banned ... looks like 2020 might not be that bad after all.

@patbacknitro18
If this is a fight over Apple's "monopolistic" percentage, cost why are they not doing the same thing for the big 3 who also have a similar deal with third parties.

@NintendoPok I’m joking you absolute wooden spoon.

Awesome, now Microsoft need to get in on this over the xCloud debacle. Two big companies teaming up to take Apple down would really teach those greedy fools a lesson.

I don't see Google as a problem here. They allow different shops to be installed on Android and you can just sideload apks anywak.
Apple is a completely closed eco system and i wonder why the EU has not decided to get involved yet. They love to clamp down on this stuff.

Simple answer to all this - don’t make games ‘free-to-play’, then entice users into spending huge sums of money over its lifespan.

The likes of Epic Games knew the App Store guidelines from the moment they signed up to become an Apple authorised developer, so if they were genuinely looking out for consumers then they wouldn’t even have Fortnite available in the first place.

I don’t recall a big fuss when the App Store was tiny, and was still taking 30% from literally ‘hundreds’, not millions, of downloads. Epic are just throwing their toys out of the pram because they know they don’t have a sustainable business model.

Instead, all they care about is getting users - particularly those who are under age - to download software like this at no cost and then continually spend money on intangible ‘features’. They want an extra 30%? Do the right thing and make the software paid-for. Otherwise, there are plenty of other platforms to draw people into.

Apple‘s going to win this „war“ anyways. The user base on iOS devices is too huge to ignore and Epic do love their sweet dollaydoos.

@Sinister Google’s almost too open with some of the dodgy crap you find on the Play Store.

Most of the people playing Fortnite dont even know of the book, or were even born in 1984

This is EPIC!
No, Nintendo Life, I don't need to say anymore.

@Bunkerneath Doesn'ty matter, they're living in it.

Honestly i'm more worried about what other policies Epic might be able to evade this way...you know, with Tencent having a stake in the company and all.

@Bunkerneath I find the budget fascists using Orwell quotes more annoying than the indifference of the youth. He’d have been livid, he was Antifa and proud after all, went to fight them in Spain and everything.

@Bunkerneath Yeah, I saw a Twitter poll a few weeks ago asking if you would prefer to live in "Idiocracy" or "1984" and 30% voted for the latter.

@countzero In fairness we already live in Idiocracy.

Annoyingly I can't get the video to play. I'm wondering how Epic is positioning itself in the story of 1984 as I can't really see any way of doing it that isn't extremely fraught with difficulty.

@nessisonett Why should Apple allow them free real-estate for customers that Apple worked to build?

Epic are playing the victim here and have made a very good business on both apples and Google’s stores. All of a sudden this isn’t good enough?

If epic had a marketplace within fortnite do you think it’d be royalty free?

@Trajan
Neither, you hope that both companies spend billions fighting it out in court.

@datamonkey historically the argument wasn't about the principle of the royalties but how excessive they are. 30% is extremely hard to justify and is only really possible because of the dominant market position.

@shaneoh redistribution of wealth from corporate behemoths to corporate lawyers. Not very easy to pick a side there.

Ah, of course. Recruit your legion of eight-year-olds boycotting the online stores so that you won't have to spend much in legal action to work out a problem you created yourself.

So what percentage do Nintendo cut with developers on the Switch?

It wouldn’t be 30% would it?

Wow. Yeah! You tell apple and google they're just out to make money! Epic Games is for the people which is why they make basically nothing off of their game, just enough to live, right? The stench hypocrisy is pungent here.

@patbacknitro18 Epic did this to see more spending. That is the standard of corporate greed.

I'm all for giving apple a beating, but if this was a group of gamers talking like this, they'd get berated and called entitled.

@Octane You already covered it, no need to waste more of my typing time then xD

Both are greedy af , but overall its a 'win' for paying gamers and a loss to corporates .

@telepathy2000 Yeah, Nintendo takes 30% as well. That's pretty much the standard. Sony, Microsoft, Steam, GOG all take around 30% IIRC. You can argue it should be less, but circumventing the system entirely is basically like tax evasion. Apple is in their right here; if you want to make use of the iOS infrastructure to sell your games, you can't expect them to allow you to do so for free.

@Ultrasmiles I wouldn't say this is a ''win'' for gamers. It's a short term win maybe; but not a long term win. And the ones making the most out of this are still the corporates, but at Epic instead of Apple. This is just another move by a company to redirect the money at them instead of someone else.

Personally I agree with Apple/Google here. They both provide excellent development tools- the complexity of their compilers and the optimisations they can do are eye opening these days.

Plus both companies provide a whole infrastructure for hosting and deploying apps to devices along with a fairly robust security system to ensure malicious apps can be detected and those that aren't can be remotely disabled.

On top of that, both companies keep improving, securing and evolving their operating systems while doing their best to ensure full backwards compatibility with apps that haven't been recently updated.

None of that can be done for free, and while some may say it should be included in the cost of the device, why make the initial cost of entry high when licence fees on software can silently claw back some of that investment? I'm actually surprised the game is getting a discount on consoles as I was under the impression that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft all also charge 30% for transactions.

@Octane
So how about buying stuff inside of Fortnite on the Switch? Do they use the Nintendo Store, or also a direct payment?

I am siding with Apple here. As a developer, I think their (Epic) action was very childish. And their reaction to the removal (which is stated in Apple’s developer agreement) is pathetic. They will lose this.

I’m wondering when Epic loses will return to these stores and consumers will expect the “new” lower price ($8). Then Apple/google takes the further 15-30% cut.

Talk about shooting your self in the foot!

@BulkSlash I didn't know Epic gets a discount on consoles. If true, that shows you the kind of leverage they have. Since most games are made in Unreal Engine these days, Epic already have a monopoly. Companies will have to comply otherwise Epic can easily stop optimising for their system. And people are cheering when Epic announces they want even more control of the market...

@vanYth In a normal situation it all goes through the platform holder first. So Nintendo, Sony and MS take a 30% share on micro-transactions, just like they do on games. But @BulkSlash suggested Epic is getting a discounts on consoles, so they may already be an exception. But in any other circumstance, the platform holder takes a cut on MTX. Otherwise there would be no profit for platform holders in free-to-play games that live in the revenue from MTX alone.

You Epic prob have their own exemption on console all for themselves! I thought they were doing this for the sake of all developers!

They are so excited to bring players the savings, they waited over 3 years to bring them. It's timing feels more like a bribe tbh.

I remember there being some hoo-ha about the 30% fees for microtransactions back in the dim and distant. Perhaps it was them being extended to microtransactions rather than initial purchase fees or something.

@Toy_Link because on those closed systems they are not able to launch their game outside the stores

Is that 30% they collect after tax or do they pay the tax out of that cut? If they pay tax from the 30% then the cut isn't as extreme as it first seems.

Fight Fight Fight say it with me!

Hahaha..the irony, one money wolf attacking another for being a money wolf.

Wow.
Okay, Sweeny & Co.

War against Apple's autocratic decisions? Good. Luck.

Mobilizing history's largest player base... for your own corporate gains? Get bent.

So to save us paying 30% to apple they have direct payment and reduced the price (the apple price looks like) by 20%.
So apple gets nothing and Epic takes more profit.
If was really a pro consumer move they would take off the whole 30% they werent even getting before themselves.
Just playing the good guys here to get more cash themselves they dont give a hoot about consumers.

Also I dont know what a fair percentage here would be but of course Apple or Google will be taking some cut for using their store, interface, whole system they maintain etc like they wont do it out of kindness of their hearts.
Sure the Epic Game store takes a cut from all its sales

Fortnite is trash and should go extinct. Good on Apple for shooing them out the door.

My statement goes double for Tencent/Epic Games. Monstrous companies that have no business being in business.

2 seagulls one 1 chip

Many people mention that Apple would just let them have a free game on their platform without taking a cut from the in game transactions but there are actually free games on iOS with zero in games. I can buy something on the Amazon app, does Apple take 30% of that sale? If I buy a movie through the Google Play movie app on iOS does Apple take 30%?

@nessisonett,

Yes that will tell em.

@nessisonett I had exactly the opposite feeling. Ha. I hope it takes Epic down a peg or two.

To be fair I’m not a fan of either
He says typing on his iPhone.

But Epic are really the worst.

(Thanks for all the free games though)

There is already kind of a fair solution to the IAP problem imo.

If i remember correctly gwent card packs cost more on IOS because of the cut Apple take. However you can just go on the PC version and buy your card packs there and save some money.

All this really means is that if you are more savvy consumer you can save yourself a bit of money. But its still fair to apple because the in app payment method goes through their store.

As much as Epic say this is about the consumers (which I dont think is 100% true), it makes sense that Apple/Google/Nintendo whoever get some sort of revenue out of effectively hosting the game on their platform.

The same thing happens with physical games in stores, the retailers take something similar to a 30% cut of the sale price when selling a game in their store. They can't operate for free. Whether or not 30% is too much is a different question.

@Toy_Link I think Epic is either fine with the situation on consoles, or plans to immidiately use a winning verdict on the big 3 to force their platforms open.

I think that Epic will win this.
Not that I am a big fan of Epic winning this as it might lead the Epic store popping up on mobile devices.
Because if Epic win they can sell stuff to people through a game/program without Apple having a say.
Perhaps they can even sell DLCs to games without Apple having a say.
Perhaps Epic can put the Epic Game store up as a free program for Iphones and sell games without Apple having a say.
Because if you are force to buy it though the Apple store the players have to give Apple 30% and nice old Epic only want 80% of what you are paying now.

Oh and nice old Epic has some games that you only can get on the Epic Store.
They might have be free on the Apple store, but now Epic bought them so you have to give Epic your data so you can play them for free.

And because this worked on Apple it also gonna work on Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft.

But Epic know that games will love this because players only see that nice 20% discount. Because Epic don't have to give company X a share.

Maybe it's just me, but why does this sound like a modern version of Tengen vs Nintendo?

The setup is similar. A developer goes for years playing by the rules of a platform holder until they decide one day that they want more money and more control, and attempt to bypass the platform holder's rules.

The Platform holder responds by trying to ban them, while the company in question tries to appeal to the general public and present themselves as a David fighting a noble battle against a giant who is using their power to control the market unfairly.

@Caryslan
If you are talking about the copying Nintendo's lock-out system, the 10NES.
Then no, this is not the same.
As that was more about copyright infringement.

This is based on Supreme Court says Apple will have to face App Store monopoly lawsuits.

This is something Epic can win, because they can claim that Apple is holding an illegal monopoly.

Although it would be nice if Apple offered iPhone users a hard way to side-load apps, I still take Apples side on this.

You don’t just go into someone else’s stores and set up your own kiosk inside. Imagine if Kellogg’s shipped a bunch of cereal boxes to Walmart with a button that you clicked to have that same thing delivered to your door, via direct order, bypassing the store.

Hell even Google agrees with Apple as they also took down the app from Google Play.

I also honestly doubt they will win this. You think Amazon has not tried to get away with the same to sell music and digital media via their app?

@BulkSlash Apple certainly do NOT provide excellent development tools. Whenever I have to do any iOS development at work I despise every second of it. Even the basics like built in scroll-to-view for when the keyboard covers the focussed input are missing.

@patbacknitro18 I don't think you know the whole story. Those Discounts Aren't really a discount epic just added a way to bypass the respective store fronts and but directly from them. I feel like the article should mention that.

Finally someone is willing to fight this awful company!

@Octane You got it wrong! What @BulkSlash meant was, that epic also gave players on console a 20% discount and he was wondering why they did, because his understanding is, that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo also charge 30%.

The whole story is not uncovered, yet, and players should really careful with support either side. It's not reasonable to only attack the mobile companies, but leaving the consoles untouched...

@oatmaster
I mean it's not like the money will ever go where it could do some good.

@Slitth What about Google, then? Google has no App Store monopoly, as you can either install apps completely by yourself, or by using a third party market. Still, they are also sueing Google.
Same goes for Consoles. Is there a way to get around the stores to make in game purchases? My guess is yes, as I can buy stuff for Warframe on their website, no need to use Nintendo's store. But that's just my guess...

@Kalmaro
I mean, why the hell not.

Haven't looked at the comments, but I can tell people bothered to click on an article about a game they hate and that people are still miffed about Epic "snagging" exclusives for their store even though they have no right to complain since it's just a few extra clicks to download the store and it's not impossible to manage two game stores.

Not to mention, Apple and Google's store policies regarding sales cuts apply to all devs, not just Epic.

@mazzel I see. Well, either way, like I said, Nintendo, Sony and MS are much more dependent on Epic than Apple is. Most games for consoles are made on Unreal Engine, so I imagine that Epic has some good leverage right there. This is not necessarily true for Apple and Google.

Epic only cares about their bottom line. Of course they want to rally people behind their call for total profit.

@patbacknitro18 ehh no. They banned it, because they changed the payment option to avoid the App store, as to avoid paying commision to Apple for using the App store.

@mazzel
It all depends on the amount of money flowing through the payment system and how its distributed.
Epic has a history of challenge this so it more in their favour.
They did this with Steam and when they could not get their way they started to paint Steam as a bad guy and open up a competing platform.

They are doing the same here.
Epic will lose to Google because it a more open system.
Buy Apple might lose because their system is much more closed off.

Now if the public is with Epic and the lawsuit would cost to much in the long run, Apple and Google might settle and simply drop earning money of Epic games.
But Apple and Google will be vulnerable to similar lawsuits.

On the other hand, Epic might win their right to open up stores on Apple and Google products. And that might even be worse for them.
As it open up for other companies to open up their own stores also.

This could affect other platforms like consoles.

Apple is facing an antitrust complaint over the App Store in Europe, by congressman, by customers (approved by the US Supreme Court), and now Epic’s Fortnite (potential competitor with epic games store) after recently denying xcloud too. The writing is on the wall, why is Apple so afraid to allow browser downloads of Apps like on the Mac?

@Octane one problem with that, i hear there are so many antitrust investigations with Apple right now and this battle is only a part of the bigger picture. I recall some EU Commission person who is pretty much with the anti big tech company group who battles with Facebook and Google, the latter takes the same cut of revenue as Apple’s. Just focusing on Epic hate while there’s government investigations by US and EU over Apple’s shenanigans on these issues is not smart here.

Just remember, Epic (and any other company) is still not your friend.

@N1ntendodo And that's that last thing I'd recommend anyone doing. However, in light of the massive support for Epic on the internet, I think that taking a step back and looking at it from both sides is the best thing to do.

But I realise that's difficult. Especially since Epic launched this whole campaign to drum up all the 10-year-olds to boycott Apple. It's ridiculous IMO. And people will defend it, because they make Fortnite.

Clever move by Epic. The main thing is they want to stop paying fees to Google and Apple so first reduce the cost so consumers get more than they did. Then change the payment and complain that these big companies are blocking good deals for consumers as the bad guys...

@ilh Yeah the lack of scroll to view with keyboard is annoying, but there's a great package to automatically handle that so it's never really bothered me that much.

Compared to many development environments I think Xcode is pretty good. Both Android and iOS have eccentricities in their IDEs and APIs, and it's always amusing to see where one does a much better job than the other!

So...Epic is going to sue Apple and Google? Good luck with that one!

@jump Careful Now!

@oatmaster yeah I appreciate that but if you release on Apple or Google’s stores you are paying for the privilege of reaching massive audiences with relative ease.

70% of many sales is better than 100% of none...

Also if the reason epic is behaving like this is for more money, then aren’t they just fighting greed with greed?

Biting the hand that feeds you never ends well ... also, why on earth would you spend real money in a free game?

@Slitth it's all about the money...

@Octane
Epic is known for playing the "its for the players best" card.
I know not trust Epic because I well aware of their business practice.

I will not side with anyone on this case.
Nor would I recommend that anyone pick sides.
This not a matter of option, but of law.

In the worst case scenario people will take Epic side and Apple/Google will bend the knee.

@datamonkey right now, the only explanation is greed. With the information available, I can't figure out any other reason then someone at epic has the strong opinion, that Google and apple making profit on their hard developed product and they don't want to share. Why they are only on to Google and apple is still not clear...

@mazzel
More about power in this case.
Of the $0.99 that Epic gets from going around Apple/Google.
Some of that goes to some kind of payment provider.

After all each and every transaction cost a company money one way or another

All as bad as each other but perhaps Epic are the worst as they are trying to recruit an army of 10 year olds to help them make more money.

Gross. You have Google, Apple and Epic fighting over how much of the consumers money they can steal. These companies are way too big at this point, and need to be broken up.
Just look at AT&T who bought Warner Bros. They're gutting the comic book division, and have a FanDome event next week, and could care less about the history of their characters. Same thing with Disney and Marvel to an extent. I'm migrating away and supporting smaller game companies, smaller book publishers, etc.

No sympathy for Epic. They blatantly violated Apple's and Google's terms of service.

If all this will benefit the consumer in the end, then by all means go ahead.

And here I though this Fortnite was supposed to be free to play, what's this about spending money.

Maybe someone thought this type of trashy game should not be on an apple system.

So, Apple and Google develop operating systems used by billions of phone users around the world, as well as phones that power those OS, enabling EPIC to get their game into the hands of those gamers for free, yet don't want Apple/Google to make as many profits in the transaction?
Talk about Epic wanting their Cake and Eat it....
I'll be shocked if they win this legal battle.

Apple isn’t going to budge. They don’t need to. And frankly, it’s hard to pick a side to root for when they’re both so scummy.

Epic clearly knew this would happen (they made a pre-rendered CGI trailer for it, for crying out loud), and they’re violating the terms of service they agreed to when they put the game on the App Store. They’re not some “hero” like they want the consumer to believe. They’re just trying to maximize their own profit and not pay anything to Apple for use of the platform.

@Cyberbotv2 It’s not stealing if people willingly spend their money.

Too much conspiracy theory nonsense going on here. I advise everyone to wait for more details, so that both companies motives are more properly revealed. Right now, nobody has enough information to make any kind of informed opinion. The rest is just speculation. Wait for the court cases ruling, at the very least!

@Slitth true, nothing is free, not even money!

@TG16_IS_BAE don't kill the purpose of the internet! It's all about conspiracy! Rumors! Theories! Aaaaaaahhhhh

@Expa0 it's actually just like anything else that you like and spend money on... It's so popular with young people, they really want to be special in the game, so they spend money for the extra items. On top, you have seasons which cost in game money. I think it's possible to play it completely for free, but needs a lot is skill and time.

I mean, every one had something useless they spend money on when they were young. Today's grown ups will say "at least I bought physical things! I own them!" Time change

Beside that, I never paid for a f2p game but sometimes was really tempted...

So.... Epic wants Apple to host the game on their store and not actually make any money for doing so? I don't think I'm on Epic's side here...

It’s bad enough that Fortnite is a complete and total ripoff of PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds, but now they’re blatantly violating the terms of their agreement with Apple so they don’t have to pay them? I wouldn’t be surprised if it got removed from other platforms just because they’ve proven themselves untrustworthy.

@mazzel Hahahah!!!

Fortnite no longer being on the App Store or Play Store may actually increase the demand for the Switch version as that is now the only portable version of the game on a mainstream storefront.

I feel obliged to make a comment about fort nite, but I don’t have anything to say apart from I won’t ever be playing it! Off to the eshop to download the takeover on sale! Now that looks like a video game to me! Xxx

Apple's being a big baby. If they want more money they can just make an iPhone 11 pro max lite s x + slim that is the exact same as the current iPhone 11, charge 2000 for it, and make millions.

Google Store and Apple Store pulled it. Next: who will be? Looks EPIC need a lesson here. And will receive.

@Rohanrocks88 we still don't know if this is a respectful act from epic... I mean, if you want to sell your product in a supermarket, for sure the supermarket takes it share to do this for you. But you have the benefit to display it to a lot of customers all over the country/world. Sure, in my example the customer pays this service, but the same here. I the end, epics share will not be much higher, but they got a lot of attention again...

Is it finally happening? Are we finally moving past the "formal" and "polite" phase of corporations and towards full blown WWF showdowns? Is this actually all kayfabe to get all the brandboys buying to defend m'company because they finally realize how cringe it is to have their Twitter accounts flirt with each other to look #relatable and wholesome 100?

Best case scenario as I see things: Apple loses the lawsuit yet Fortnite gets banned. Salt all around.

While I dislike Spotify but they have a legitimate argument that Apple unfairly competes with Apple Music. Microsoft has a legitimate argument that Apple shouldn't prevent xCloud since it is essentially a remote control (they allow a FireTV Remote App, which can make purchases via your Fire Stick for example).

Epic however is just trying to use those two legitimate complaints as smoke cover for their whining that they don't like the contract they agreed to. You don't get on Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft consoles without paying a fee to them; so why is it so foreign that Apple gets a cut of their marketplace (which again, is an across the board industry standard).

Then there is the issue of "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" for Epic. At this point, I think I would purchase a game from EA before I would purchase something from Epic.

After installing Chrome to see if that made the video playable for me (it did) I can conclude that it's utterly terrible. The 1984 link doesn't work AT ALL. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I totally dislike Apple, but correct me if I am wrong:

• If Epic wins this battle, then doesn't it mean that all app developers could choose to make their apps free to download and then charge once you open the app so you could use it (meaning that apple would never see a cent)?

@Balta666
Apple considers itself as a closed platform too, only reason Epic isn't doing it on console is that it's easier to get around the restrictions on the mobile platforms.

This could be good for Nintendo if kids who play the game on their ipad start crying to their parents to buy them nintendo switch to play it.

Epic aren't scared of anything. Apparently they're going to change their name to Ronnie Pickering!

It is extremely alarming to watch Epic weaponize social media overnight, whipping up impressionable Fortnite fans and astroturfing paid shills alike. At risk of being censured, I will not call out any specific posters for being paid actors, but key phrases in the acting include continued use of the word "monopoly" as well as reinforcing such accusations toward Apple in every post they make.

This is all an aggressive and bullish stunt on Epic's part to:

1) get Epic Game Store on Apple devices
2) increase market share whatever means necessary

Everything was planned ahead for months, from producing such a polished 1984 cinematic to discounting V-Bucks ahead of time, all to paint themselves as fighting for the consumer. It's brilliant and also evil in its bold-faced deception.

I would not be surprised if the sophisticated handling of social media was orchestrated by Tencent on Epic's behalf.

Fortnite is already free

@Ulysses polished cinematic? About fifteen seconds of thrown-together gubbins with a filter and then some scrolling text?

That's not to say that it isn't a planned campaign but if so that video would have to have been made to deliberately look thrown together at the last minute.

@Blizzia @Octane Not trying to defend Epic, but now that Epic is accepting the payment, they're also accepting the credit card transaction fees. I'm not sure if it amounts to the 10% difference, but in the original scenario, Apple was likely accepting the credit card transaction fees in that 30% cut, and now Epic is taking on that fee.

@oatmaster
Yes. This is the biggest financial action that Epic has undertaken in a long time, so you better believe they didn't just throw together a 50k ragtag project together in less than a week. Of course they made it look plucky because they're trying to paint that picture to the layman: "We're the rebellious underdogs!"

@PeterPanana Doesn't make any difference - the fees are absolutely minimal in the grand scope for large companies. From my experience the average fee is ~1.3%-2.6% of payment, and much less for bigger payments.

@nessisonett Orwell wrote 1984 as a allegory to Marxist-Leninism.

Antifa is a terrorist organization. I don’t think Orwell was a fan of burning down buildings and enforcing newspeak.

@Kalmaro Ebony Maw: Let him have his fun.

@Trajan That’s where you’re mistaken, my moronic friend. Antifa is not an organisation, it can exist anywhere that doesn’t tolerate fascists. So Orwell was absolutely anti-fascist considering he fought Franco in Spain. He also was a big socialist, while being critical of Stalinism considering Animal Farm is a retelling of the Russian Revolution. Anybody who uses his quotes while subscribing to beliefs that discriminate against people for defining characteristics is a hypocritical baboon who honestly doesn’t understand what 1984 is even about.

@nessisonett who’s discriminating against anyone?

Being against a group of dumb kids burning things down isn’t discrimination.

Anti-fascist and antifa are two separate things.

Just like “anticom” is different than Ronald Reagan.

@nessisonett They basically are an organization. They receive funding and everything. They are just to organized to be be described as anything else. They make sure they don't have a central headquarters so they can't be taken out so easily, that doesn't mean they don't have some form of organization going on.

ANTIFA is pretty messed up, I've seen them beat up enough people to support them being taken down. What's worse is when they do it and scream "Black Lives Matter".

@PrincessAzunyan the commercial is a reference to Apple's "1984" commercial from the year 1984. The reason this was used was not to reference anything in the book. In Apple's commercial they were claiming the Macintosh was going to free people from the boring and over powered Windows PC. Epic is calling out Apple as the new boring and overpowered company (this commercial was more for Apple than it was for its fans). A little ironic coming from Epic, if you ask me.

Oh brother. Epic is trying to weaponize its playerbase so it can get away with defying other companies' terms of service and make more money in the process.

Just negotiate a better deal with apple/google like a professional company should, rather than throwing a tantrum over the fact that you are no longer content with the terms of service you agreed to in the first place. I don't think Google or Apple will be budging on this one if you are trying to cut them out completely.

@Trajan @Kalmaro Here’s literally the Wikipedia page. I don’t condone violence but Trump acts as if they’re Al Qaeda.

Antifa actions have received both criticism and praise.[26][27] Conspiracy theories about antifa which tend to inaccurately portray antifa as a single organization with leaders and secret sources of funding have been spread by right-wing activists, media organisations and politicians, including Trump administration officials.[28][29][30] There have been multiple efforts to discredit antifa groups via hoaxes on social media, many of them false flag attacks originating from alt-right and 4chan users posing as antifa backers on Twitter.[31][32][33] Some hoaxes have been picked up and reported as fact by right-leaning media.[31][34][35]

@nessisonett Well first, Wikipedia is not a credible source. The links they mention may be but the page itself isn't.

Not only that but we already know they have funding. That's how they got brinks conveniently delivered to them on pallets at protests and can go for over 70 days rioting nonstop.

They also have people making weapons and shields, this does not happen without funding. They are evil and its not hard to find footage of them breaking, looting and hurting people constantly. This isn't a crazy conspiracy theory.

Probably their greatest accomplishment was getting people to believe they are actually against fascism and racism while they are also destroying shops owned by black people.

Didn’t an anti fascist try to assassinate a congressman in 2017?
Also, video games are cool.

@idrawrobots Yep
I'm not sure how we even got on this topic, to be honest.

@Kalmaro
What specific sources of information do you find credible? I am not advocating for Wikipedia, but rather just curious.

@Ulysses I would look at the sources from the Wikipedia link themselves.

Then from there I'd look into what those sources say and if they have evidence to back themselves up or if they just use an "anonymous source".

Usually I try to cross what one political side is saying vs another side. Where they both agree is usually what's true.

It's disconcerting how many people are persuaded by relentless propaganda and they don't even know it, including myself in ways that I am both aware and unaware, pervading every industry with antagonistic ideology.

@Ulysses Absolutely, a lot of people just don't care and will just take what they heard from one place, won't care if it's true or not and will just go with it.

I haven't seen or heard of anyone I know playing Fortnite in many a fortnight.

@nessisonett bro just go on Twitter. They’re posting the horrible things they’re doing themselves.

This is about greed on both sides, Epic is just using social media (and the flocks of stupid people) to attack another company, because they can't maximize on their V-bucks sales.

Anybody stupid enough to get involved should sit and think how they can use themselves as a tool (as they are) in order to better humanity... that or jump off a bridge.

We all luv u fortnite dont worry😟 we can help u by supporting u dont worry we all luv u❤❤❤😟

@Octane You just hit the nail man, you're absolutely right.

This is pretty stupid. Epic is basically saying "We are so oppressed because our game got removed for violating a policy"! It is like a robber acted like it was not his fault that he robbed a bank when he clearly did it on his own free will.

@Octane that’s not entirely correct. If I buy 1000 V-Bucks on Switch it was previously £7.99.
If I buy 1000 V-Bucks on iPhone it was previously £9.99.

It was already more expensive on iOS due to Apple’s price hike. If Epic have reduced all purchases, across all ecosystems to the same price (which is what they appear to have done, since they’re no longer on the App Store, indicating Apple aren’t taking their cut now - which is also the point you’re making), then that means the price on iOS would be £6.49, as it is on Switch currently - which is actually a 35% discount. So Epic are still earning less.

Of course, this is only if Epic intended to bring all prices across all eco-systems in line with each other - which I can’t see how or why they wouldn’t if they are shouting and dancing about how you pay them directly now.

@Slowdive You know that those "corporations" are studios, right? In the case of Epic.

It's like watching Lex Luthor fight The Joker. The world isn't a better place if either wins.

Apple has nothing to lose.

This is pointless too; Epic is not the hero when they themselves do other questionable things.

The Apple ToC clearly mentions that if they have digital goods that are bough and used for the app must use the Apple Pay service (even if we know apple is scummy with how much it takes of the cut)
and Epic (should have) fully known this when they submitted the game into the store.

Yes, Apple is a scumbag, but you are using their platform so you can't really do much to try and "bend" the rules.

And besides this wouldn't be fair if they allow Epic to get away with, since all other apps are subjected to this too.

And really, Epic is the one who has more to lose from this (just see the Spotify vs Apple drama too)

I want to know, are they violating Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft terms too? If the "discount" is available on Switch,does that mean they are not paying waht was agreed to Nintendo? With phones I can see Epics point to a certain degree as 30 percent is a lot considering they just made a big website. With Nintendo and Sony I think console manufacturers shoulder a lot of financial risk in developing a dedicated gaming platform, they also invest in creating an install base based on gaming rather than just adding an app to an existing piece of hardware like a phone or computer that everyone has anyway. I think steam and phones should charge less commission or risk being undercut by someone else.

EPIC or... Tencent = China vs the US

@RedBlueSpot Correction: They've ALWAYS been anti-consumer. Their philosophy from the very beginning has been to make stuff that is 100% proprietary and then charge a ridiculous premium for the "privilege" of owning a device that cannot be upgraded, cannot play nice with any standardized hardware, is locked down as tight as they can get it, and bears a shiny Apple logo.

I hope that this legal battle costs them dearly and that people wake up and realize they're overpaying for an inferior product, but people are dumb, so that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

@Toy_Link but they are not... You cannot launch outside PS, XBOX or N stores unless you have a browser game

@Gridatttack Do some research on monopoly laws. They exist precisely to prevent huge corporations like Apple from taking advantage of proprietary services like the app store in order to charge unreasonable fees or put undue burden on client companies who are forced to play by their rules or "get out." It is far from an open-and-shut case just because Apple makes all developers agree to an entirely one-sided contract for the privilege of using their marketplace.

@Balta666
Apple only wants people to download/purchase games on IOS to do through their store. Sure people have gotten around it, but that's the same for many consoles (like the 3DS).

@Fido007 Greed on both sides, huh? Lets see here...

Here's what Epic did to earn the money they get from Fortnite:

• Develop a complex online arena game supporting a large amount of simultaneous players.
• Design, model, decorate and animate huge playfields and many, many character and weapon models.
• Design and record sound effects and music.
• Balance, tweak and support an active game with a large playerbase.
• Continually develop additional content to encourage more players to play.

Here's what Apple did to earn their 30% cut:

• Create a storefront with pretty pictures of other people's games.

Does that seem like a reasonable split to you?

Don't get me wrong. I hate Fortnite. It's very derivative and filled with children. That doesn't mean it isn't a worthwhile product. Lots of people like it, even if I don't, and those people should be allowed to support it if they wish to do so. Apple (and Google) are taking advantage of an exclusive storefront hard-locked to restricted mobile devices to force Epic to give them an unfair cut of their profits. It would be like Walmart telling all the companies that provide the products they sell in their stores that they either have to fork over a much larger cut of their profits or get kicked out of the stores altogether. Except, in the case of Apple/Google, there aren't any other stores the client companies could send their products to instead, creating an unfair market environment which goes against the core tenets of a free market ecosystem.

I'm no fan of Epic, but I hope they ream the crap out of Apple. Apple's had it coming for a very long time.

Or, let it lose to Apple and Google and be condemned forever.

I really don't like Apple, Google or Epic. But can someone please set me right on this?

If Fortnite is a free app and the money is made on in app purchases, then is Apple and Google's only source of income from Fortnite their 30% commission on V-bucks?
If so, how did Epic possibly expect them to keep the app up if they are making no income at all from it?

Also, I really don't like the idea of offering a 20% 'discount' to players which actually lines your pocket with an extra 10%...

@Toy_Link mate Epic is not cracking IOS...lol

Apple take 30%.... They get removed from App Store so they can offer “up to” a 20% discount? 🤔

@Slowdive I’m glad you brought up the Chinese connection, something lacking from the vast majority of news reports I’ve been reading on this matter.

I’m not defending Apple but it is a bit scummy what epic have done,
It’s the equivalent of going into a shop and telling someone that they can get what they want cheaper down the road.

@WaxxyOne I guess you don't shop at grocery stores, that or you think your food is grown/processed and graded there?

Grocery stores have a mark up so high that it makes Apple's store's 30% look like small potatoes in comparison.

They made an agreement to get their product on a smart phone(for whatever reason) and apple provides the service to distribute and market it. If fortnite wants MTX in their game they have to pay the price for using that service/being scummy.

If you don't see it now, then there is no discussing it further.

@patbacknitro18 That's not even remotely true. Epic violated the terms of their agreement with Apple by allowing players to purchase in-game currency directly from them and not through Apple app store.

@patbacknitro18 Look at what Epic pays their workers vs upper management and then come back and tell us how they aren't greedy.

I’m sure this is nothing to do with epic trying to launch its own store.

Yeah lol, Epic has gotten a big head. I'll gladly take the "I told you so" if I am wrong, but they don't stand a chance.

@Balta666
When did I say they were hacking? Epic is getting around the IOS store's restrictions and Apple has the right to remove it just like if this happened to a console maker.

How can you put a game on 3ds outside the e-shop then?

@patbacknitro18 No, they did it because they weren’t getting a cut of the money. Epic added a way to buy the v-bucks outside of the App Store. I’m not defending Apple I’m just pointing out that the greed is on both sides and what do you expect. THEY ARE CORPORATIONS, THEIR MAIN GOAL IS TO MAKE MONEY.

@Zeldawakening You can download things off of browsers on Mac.

@bobzbulder That’s what I said. Why would Apple be so afraid to allow iPhone downloads when they already do on the Mac? Because the developers would publish to the competitor rather than comply with Apple’s arbitrary App Store rules. That’s why the Mac App Store is filled with garbage and Apple is going to fill the Mac App Store in September 2020 with iPhone/iPad apps

@Zeldawakening That’s probably the main reason, but I think it also has to do with security. On mac you have access to more stuff because computers can do more and I doubt they would make much money off of the store on Mac. Most people using computers know about the risks of downloading from the internet. They are more experienced than iPhone users. Most iPhone users have very little knowledge of the risks of downloading off of a browser and probably don’t even know how to do so. The App Store gives a safe way to download apps and a simple way. If they allowed iPhone users to download off of a browser there would be only crap on the App Store and people would have lots of problems with getting viruses and just plain wouldn’t know how to download the apps. The main reason is probably money, but it’s also that there are some people who like the App Store and they want to appeal to them because they are the majority which goes back to money.

I see a lot of hate towards Apple here but Google did the same thing and banned Fortnite.
This is more a war against mobile platforms overall (and perhaps Tencent (China) vs US companies.
I’m not saying Apple is better or worse, just that...you know, hate them both in this case, thank you?

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all take a cut, why shouldn't Apple? Apple are the store and platform holder so take 30%. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo share their 30% with retailers (GAME, Argos, Tesco etc.) because they heavily rely on their hardware sales (and software to be fair).

I get the Apple hate, but at the same time, every single one of us is guilty for creating them. Including Epic.

I bought 4 iPhones, my laptop is macbook air but apple is even more greedy than Nintendo! They are not humble at all. Hope epic wins and teach them a lesson

They want to “FreeFortnite” and us to “join the battle” but lock their event to Solo? Nothing about this is inclusive for players. So I’m not supporting it. Even just Duos would’ve made more sense.