Hacker Group Not Happy About Nintendo's "Censorship" And "Legal Scare Tactics"

I'm not sure who had the legal right to do what anymore. Does Nintendo have the right to say that period can't hack their systems?

Remember all you agreed to EULA/TOS. End of Discussion. Buy and Support NIN official otherwise your leeching off others work. Would you like if someone leech your work that took years and $$$$ R&D to make. When all they did was nothing to get something for nothing. Ask yourself that and you will know thw answer.

When hacking a system you own, sure I agree.
But making a profit selling hacked systems, and then these customers using that system to play games they didnt pay to own?
Sorry guys, that's something they have every right to crack down on, its shady.
You're in it for the money, not bleeding hearts trying to free the masses

The Internet. The most powerful weapon ever created.

I'll happily rip some of my cartridges for installation. Where do I buy?

Ehh, I have no respect for Team Xecutor anyways. Paywalling your hack is bad form.

I trust a hacker group to use the correct definition of "censorship" as far as I can throw all of them with all of their equipment all at once.

"We don't pirate games, we just make tools that work extraordinarily well for piracy! We promise, that these tools that make piracy simple and easy are purely for the purposes of backing up software."

Joking aside I am always a little conflicted on this sort of thing. It reminds me of buying a new Mustang and then Ford Motor company trying to tell you you can't modify it however you want.

It's not really the same thing, but I can see the comparison.

"unauthorized operating system"
Meh.
"and accompanying piracy tools"
Now that's a defense.
"It just backs up games!"
And....?
"...circumvents protections."
Bingo bongo, you were absolutely in the wrong-o.

If I hacked teamXs paywall. Would they like it?

Well they have a point, there are a lot of legitimate uses for it, like running Android and playing Stadia on the Switch, how cool is that?

Still, let's face it, those modchips would be mostly used for piracy

Tricky stuff, though one thing on Nintendo's side is that at least on some ads I saw it was quite clearly cattering to piracy

Maybe they could slash their "backup" capabilities 🤔

Like I say time and time again, you may not be a piracy group, but these projects still contribute to piracy whether directly or indirectly. I'm all in for Homebrew but Nintendo has every right. This is not about the right for independent repair like what's going on with Apple devices right now.
You want to hack the Switch? Code the tools yourselves and think about whether you want to share them online or not and if you do, you know the risks: 1. You let other people get a chance to pirate even if that was not the intended purpose, 2. Face possible legal consequences.

No matter how you defend the hacking scene, one way or another it'll lead to piracy even if you never intended that to be the case.

And for pete's sake that "business" was making profit off the hacking tools online! Hacking for personal means is a different story.

Hacking and pirating for profit is condemnable. That said, Nintendo has to know that homebrew exclusively for homebrew is completely legal (under niche circumstances). There is no stealing of intellectual property when you run unsigned code fitted for homebrew applications. I think this is where they are coming from. Yes, the products or software that release can be conditioned for piracy, but it doesn't mean that the custom firmware and homebrew itself is innately illegal. This is especially more true after the warranty period.

This is the same situation as the emulator you have to run GBA roms is not itself illegal, but the downloaded roms that you grab off the Internet are. People need to understand this important distinction before labeling all forms of tampering with the consoles that they own as illegal. Obviously, it is 100% in Nintendo's right to sue people who have pirated games already on their consoles preinstalled and attempt to sell it for money.

/////
This is the licensing disclaimer that allows the folks behind Atmosphère CFW for instance to keep doing what they are doing. The protection comes from the GPLv2. More information can be found in their LICENSE file:

This software is licensed under the terms of the GPLv2, with exemptions for specific projects noted below.
You can find a copy of the license in the LICENSE file.
Exemptions:
The yuzu Nintendo Switch emulator and the Ryujinx Team and Contributors are exempt from GPLv2 licensing. They are permitted, each at their individual discretion, to instead license any source code authored for the Atmosphère project as either GPLv2 or later or the MIT license. In doing so, they may alter, supplement, or entirely remove the copyright notice for each file they choose to relicense. Neither the Atmosphère project nor its individual contributors shall assert their moral rights against any of the aforementioned projects.
Nintendo is exempt from GPLv2 licensing and may (at its option) instead license any source code authored for the Atmosphère project under the Zero-Clause BSD license.

source: Atmosphère landing page

Anyone who pirates have no say in anything, no matter how reasonable it sounds.

Obviously didn’t read the EULA before agreeing to it because it even states there that you’re not to modify the system so clearly their in the wrong.

“it does not consider itself to be a copyright-infringing ring of software pirates” But knowing that’s what it could be used for is still on them. It’s the equivalent to giving an arsonist some matches.

@WesEds I was just about to comment the same thing. The license agreement that everyone has to accept specifically states that you can not modify the console or software

@Issac1070 exactly shows that not many people read over it and then complain that Nintendo actually enforces it

@NullPointerExcep That's always the problem with this stuff. Yes it's awesome being able to load up home brew apps and back up your own data and even run ports of games and software from other platforms - but the same technology that allows that also makes piracy extremely viable and easy.

99,99% of all uses are for piracy. Sure 0,01% simply runs Linux on it. But most just download and play games they don't own on it. And yes, that's 100% piracy.

We all know what these devices are for, but in my opinion, those that purchase and use the devices are much more in the wrong than the company that makes them. Don't get me wrong, the company isn't squeaky clean, but they're also not supplying you with illegal copies of games or anything like that, it's the user that obtains all of that. Like you could purchase yourself a set of tools that can be used specifically to break into a building, but the manufacturer of those tools are not to blame for the consumer that gets them and then breaks into homes and robs them.

@Entrr_username "it's not just the right of the person that speaks to be heard,
it's the right of everyone in the audience to listen and to hear,
and everytime you silence somebody you make yourself a prisoner of your own action because you deny yourself the right to hear something"

-Christopher Hitchens

@Issac1070 End-User agreements only protect corporations, and do nothing for the customer. Clearly, Nintendo can write something on their console or put it on a screen and make us push a checkbox to get to the next option, but they can't stop someone from making physical changes to the hardware they purchased.

As far as Nintendo is concerned, is piracy really hurting their bottom line? They seem to pretty consistently roll in a profit, with the Wii U being an exception. Sure, it would be great if there was NO piracy (for Nintendo, at least) but yeah, they make millions each month so I'm not crying if a few people pirate their stuff!

@Heavyarms55 I see where you are going with this. You're right. There always seems to be different ways to use a tool. It's similar to gun ownership. Guns by themselves are completely useless. They only gain meaning when they are in someone's hand and loaded. The next thing is the usage: did you use the gun to protect or to harm? And even that is a loaded (haha) question, because who decides who was protected and who was harmed?

I love these types of articles, because they reveal the people in the comments who are thinkers, and who are just plowing a knee-jerk reaction because they dislike piracy.

Whether or not you like piracy is irrelevant to determining the level of moral caliber of the person; it is HOW you got to that decision that you measure ones moral caliber.

Anyway, have a great day or night or whatever loool

@JR150 That's interesting. Do you know the difference between a White-Hat Hacker, a Grey-Hat Hacker and a Black-Hat Hacker, then?

Bleem vs Sony: Bleem won on all counts.

I’m not saying there’s grounds in this case, but just because a corporation’s legal says you’re illegal, doesn’t mean it’s eternally true. But that’s the machine of corporatism, it will always claim every right over everything else

@TG16_IS_BAE Actually, yes they can. EULA(End User License Agreement) is a legal contract that all individuals agree to once they purchase their console. In that agreement, you are not permitted to modify the console or software, if you do, Nintendo has every right to take legal action. In the eula they even tell you that if you do not agree with the terms, then you should return the product.

I agree with them 100%, right up until you start letting folks make backups and boot them. That's where you know the abuse will come in. Otherwise, homebrew away.

@Issac1070 I'm not sure if you meant to reply to me, but I'm talking about a EULA doing nothing for the customer and only protecting the corporation.

If you did mean to reply to me, then what protection or benefit do I get by having Nintendo tell me what to do with the hardware I bought?

@PhilKenSebben Abuse can go another way, too. For example, all the money you spent on the Wii store is now useless and Nintendo gets to walk away with it. If you needed to replace your Wii for whatever reason, you can't get the games you bought.

Steam and GOG, on the other hand, offers protections for consumers in that they can create backups of the games they purchase. Even games that have expired license agreements, like Transformers Devastation, can still be downloaded if you purchased them.

So, I would argue that having the ability to backup a game that was bought digitally should be a standard thing for every console or eco-system. It should be a crime that Nintendo can walk away with your money every 7-8 years because they no longer want to support that particular digital market place anymore. It should also be a crime that they do not have a good, public review system for things on the eShop, as well as an easy and customer friendly refund system.

That being said, Nintendo makes their users swallow a hard bullet, so it's not wonder that people try to find ways to circumvent it!

@PhilKenSebben I would love to see a "dev unlock" mode on the Switch, similar to the XBOX ONE has. This modes allows the execution of "development" code on the system (you can't run any commercial games in this mode). This should also be monitored and people making hacks for it (to run illegal games) should be banned (this also happens on XBOX ONE)

@Issac1070 eh. Quite a few eula have been thrown out due to being deemed illegal, or infringing on an individuals property rights, once they reach a court. They arent blanket protection for corporations. Now if you're if obviously doing something like pirating software, then yeah. You're in violation, and I'd be shocked if a court didnt uphold that. But as for just homebrew on a system you bought and own? Most likely not.

Oh, the drama of whether or not I can do whatever I want with my console.
I think I will say something that more than half the world knows, but I will put it back in case someone forgets it.

Well, this is simple, you can do whatever that you want with your console or game, but, that is at your own risk and with the knowledge that you lose many things.
Under the rules of the economy and copyright, simply we, as end users, are not "absolute owners" of the device or software, we simply own a "copy", because companies defend themselves against the risk that a "End user" wants to sue the company to receive a new product in case of damage or loss, simply for the excuse: "that I pay it", "I buy it" and therefore "I have" the right to have the copy again, but what payment is not the product itself (which costs millions in it), it is a copy, a "license"; and therefore if that copy is damaged, well, an apology, goodbye copy and there is no new free product, but, BUT that is why there is the famous "guarantee" that supports End Users to have a new product (copy / license) in case of damage or loss, but, if marked by that "contract" of course.
However, to be subject to the guarantee, you must respect the guidelines that it marks and it is to respect the ""proper use"" of that product, whether you like it or not, it is a contract, when you buy it, "you signed it automatically", in addition, as software and hardware today, updates are part of that guarantee, but extended, as long as you use the copy and have it at your disposal, if the company allows it, you have free to update the product, but still, as long as fulfill the purchase contract. It's that simple.

If you want do whatever with your console, EASY, Don't connect it to internet, no updates, bye warranty and done, Any company, in this case, Nintendo will never bother you.

@TG16_IS_BAE hey. Preaching to the choir. I fully agree and endorse backing up your own software. Been doing it since the 80s. But selling a commercial application for such? Just asking for trouble and piracy. I'm very much anti-piracy, but pro consumer, and homebrew/backups. It's a tricky area, that I havent seen a good answer to.

@PhilKenSebben 100% agreed. I too, have been backing up things I own since the 80's, and only have backups of things I physically own.

Though, adult me is absolutely shredding kid me for selling my copy of Panic Restaurant. That thing is worth over $4000 now! Argh!!!

@PhilKenSebben yeah, I'm mainly referring to piracy. And there are those who dont pirate games, but a lot more do and most companies, in this case Nintendo, will pursue the persons regardless of what they're using the mod for.

I'd be more in agreement once the console is no longer supported to mod it. Then yes, backup all you want once repair/replacement is no longer available. @TG16_IS_BAE

I very much have a middle opinion regarding current hardware.
"monopolistic control over hardware which is the property of the consumer"
The one case I think can be argued for is the PS3 Linux thing since Sony did promise you'd be able to install and run that.
Nintendo gave no such warning.

I think Nintendo has given warnings about updates breaking modded consoles.
So, it has been, yeah you can do what you want to your consoles. But then they can choose to deny you access to future products. That's the price for not waiting.

@TG16_IS_BAE I did not mean to reply directly to you, and I may have misinterpreted your original statement to me.

@Issac1070 Got it, thanks!

@KingMike I think that Nintendo goes out of their way to break consoles with said updates. Subtle retaliation, I suppose.

I get what you mean, too. It's like how the original Diablo game is up on a certain website right now because a rep from Blizzard said it's old, they aren't doing anything with it and it's fine. Other games that are literally impossible to play on physical hardware I think should be okay to emulate.

There are more exceptions but I'm tired af lol

The thing is, even if you 100% do not intend for people to misuse your product - doesn't mean they wont. Look at things like cars and guns - even when purchased legally you end up with countless people misusing them.

Where do you draw the lines? This is the question that has no easy answer. If you ban everything that can be misused - then you end up banning everything.

And even education is not enough. Even if it were 100% clear as day and known by all that piracy is not acceptable - I promise you people would still do it.

Because that's just how people are. If it's possible to break a rule/law/taboo then you will have people who do. Without question.

So it becomes a balancing act of limiting the abuse without destroying the context. And frankly I don't know what the right answer is. Not really. Not with hacking or guns or cars or anything.

If I did, I'd be running for political office, not playing video games.

Can you use a crowbar to break the law? Should we outlaw it then? In actuality there is a layer between because it isn't even illegal in any sense to break into the switches. It's just illegal to load it full of stolen content.

Remember the days of Napster and limewire? Shoot it's still just as easy now to pirate music and movies but very very few do. If these billion dollar corporations want to stop piracy they need only make it more affordable and convenient for their customers to use their products. To be fair Nintendo is already doing this, they just bring attention to the .0001% that are hacking their systems by taking a legal course.

@Heavyarms55 I think it comes down to how much we trust our law-makers to follow their own laws. While they are making laws about software piracy, they are embezzling money, for example. It's hard when you have government agencies that want you to walk a fine line, but think they are above the law.

Speaking for me, personally, I don't like it when people draw the line for me. So sure, I'll click your EULA, but if I ever decide that it's time to mod my Switch, it won't be the first system I've done it to.

I hope Sony will manage to kill its competitors and get a monopoly of the consoles market. They know how to handle the hackers problem and discussing PS4 hacking is forbidden everywhere. Sony will show to these useless hackers what a real control freak megacorp is.

Good, shut them down.

If you give car keys to drunk person, they go drive and cause accident, you will be charged - you cannot say "I didn't know they go to drive"

Hack away, brew away for your own fun. But start making profit from it is obviously a nono.

Now everyone put yourself in position you come up with some sytem. Then someone else makes hack to bypass official stuff, sells it for profit and people can get free stuff that would normally bring you money. Would you just go "awww, good for them"

Even "Nintendo does well" isn't really excuse to accept this kind of illegal thing.

If they are into hacking games they should just stick to PC

"We made a system that let's you back up your games. But do you know what folk are doing with that?"

Hahahaahhaha. Get outta here.

@Issac1070
"Actually, yes they can. EULA(End User License Agreement) is a legal contract that all individuals agree to once they purchase their console."
I wasn't given a contract when I purchased my switch. I signed nothing to indicate I agreed to such terms.

@Finntendo Nintendo has been in business for decades and I doubt they are going anywhere. For that reason, it’s really hard to feel any sympathy towards them for the inevitable piracy.

GOG lets you do whatever you want after you download a game you purchased. You can even back it up and give it to anyone, completely DRM free. And you know what, they’re doing great.

Just saying, these things all aren’t so cut and dry!

"a copyright-infringing ring of software pirates" is exactly what they are.

Rain hellfire, Nintendo. Rain. Hellfire.

Go grab a random tablet if you want to mod and pirate so desperately. The Switch is a Switch, period.

If the software did absolutely nothing but let people back up their saves and did not screw with anything, I'd say go ahead. But this is a nope.

I don’t really care what people do. But as I said earlier they hacked Nintendo’s software to make their product. If someone hacks their product to improve upon it and allow people to have it for free, are they going to cry foul?

@Blizzia lol, “the switch is a switch, period.” What are you trying to shut down with that argument?

@Collette I wonder how it affects heat? I don’t know much about that stuff. I want to hack my switch too but I also like buying from the eShop, so I’ll wait for a bit on that.

My two cents: can you buy a game legally? Yes, buy it. No, it is not possible in any way to buy a released game you want to play, pirate it. Nobody gets hurt.

@TG16_IS_BAE There's no argument in it. It's just a fact.

You can come up with any argument under the sun, but the fact is you bought a Switch, not a random tablet meant for general use.

The Switch is designed specifically for use with Nintendo's OS and software, and nothing else.

Buy a generic tablet if you wanna fiddle with things.

There's a word for strongly reacting to truth when it concerns threats to a constructed image of self. It's called denial. It's easy to spot. Besides outright rejection or refusal of the threat there will be some negotiation/justification. And at the same time there's also a tendency to copy tactics of an imagined adversary. Such as inserting brick triggering mechanisms into a supposedly freedom enabling pro-tinkerer right-to-modify devices.

@setezerocinco Wrong. The maker always gets hurt.

You pirate the game, you play it. It's amazing. You tell your friends about it. They're also poor or unable to buy it, so they pirate it. They play it, tell their friends. The cycle continues. You spread word of mouth, you increase piracy.

Part of why it is also so damn stupid of NL to continue with these articles on piracy. If we act like it doesn't exist, the effect decreases, because I can assure you most people don't google "how can I illegally obtain this game" before finding out it's a possibility.

@TG16_IS_BAE unless you overclock it extremely it will not affect them to hard, use it myself.
Also if you use atmosphere, which comes without the ability to install pirated games out of the box, you can use it relativ safely (not 100% but as safe as it can get) online, as long as you are not pirating or or installing any homebrew apps to the home menu, cheating online and you are carefully with save game modding in online games.
A few friends of mine and I myself use it since quite a while and aren't banned yet.
developing, save game backups, romhax and things like overclocking and 60fps patches are the main reason for myself to use cfw, but there are many more things one can do, like custom themes and emulation.

@TG16_IS_BAE “Nintendo has been in business for decades and I doubt they are going anywhere. For that reason, it’s really hard to feel any sympathy towards them for the inevitable piracy.”

Your car is nicer than mine. I’m just going to help myself to it. I mean, you’re doing alright, and I doubt you’re going anywhere. It’s hard to feel any sympathy for you. 🤣

Your arguments are interesting, and worth taking on board - but that particular one just made me laugh.

@Blizzia piracy is not a topic that easy, some people are really lost sells, on the other side there are people who would have never bought it anyway, but will tell other people about this game. Other people will test games, and buy them if they like it, or if they later have the funds. But only the first group is really a damage for the company, while the other one can contribute to sales, directly or indirectly.

I for myself pirated quit a few games on PC and console when I was still in school, since I didn't have the funds to buy many games and a console over a year, but even then I bought the games I liked the most. Later when I got more resources, I often bought the successors of games I pirated in the past, and also started buying some of the older titles I liked and couldn't afford. So did the company loose anything because I pirated, no, not really, but they did win a future customer.

@Blizzia sorry if I did not express myself correctly. I meant if the game is not available to buy, not if you cannot buy it. If you are poor, do not pirate, borrow the game from a friend or await for a sale. If the game is nowhere to buy, like a retro game or discontinued, then pirate it. And I have the same opinion about games that are available only via eBay like 300% more expensive than its price. If you want to play it, pirate it. All the copies are sold and the developers already got the money for it and will not get a penny if you buy it for an inflated price on eBay.

they can dry their eyes. but in uk these are illegal anyway im pretty sure its the same in europe. The its not to break copyright or pirate etc is just a load of old tosh. Releasing aa free hack for homebrew is one thing but these are being sold to make money.

The funny thing is those EULAs are completely unenforceable in Europe (and the UK for now). Once you've bought a product you can do what you like with it.
However, selling a modified version of proprietry software puts you jeopardy, legally speaking.

There are 2 things annoying me about this group. Firstly it's the fact they claim to be hackers supporting right-to-repair ideals but then they charge money for their modification. If they were really hackers in the true sense of the word they'd open-source their work and let others benefit from it.
The 2nd point that annoys me is their claiming this is a free speech issue. Freedom of speech protects you from the government stopping you from expressing yourself (with several notable exceptions). It has absolutely nothing to do with a private company trying to stop others modifying their proprietary software.
Invoking freedom of speech just makes them sound like a bunch of numpties throwing around words they've heard without any understanding of what underpins them.

@Heavyarms55 yeah I was also thinking about the same comparison (not necessarily Ford, but I love the Mustang, too ).
Difference is, that you will not really be able to upgrade your Mustang "for free", like download a software and get +100hp more or something. This might be possible in the future but not by now.
But it's hitting the same corner. I mean, you own the hardware, so it's yours to decide what to do. If the hardware is connected to an ecosystem like Switch, with online and eshop services, they are completely right to lock you out of this ecosystem by reasoning, that you have modified hardware which can harm the ecosystem.
During the end of the Switchs lifecycle, I will also check for a way to back up all my content, especially because the data on the sd-card can be backed up on PC easily, but is bound to one Switch only. I don't expect my Switch to stay with me forever, therefore I will look for a way to access the data on other Switches, too!
I mean, I buy as much physical as possible, but these days we have basically zero games which are finished, so I also need to back up those patches...

@shaneoh yes you did, like you sign a contract every time you buy something online. Just like 99.9% of the users (me included), you never read through that "book" of End user Agreements. This doesn't mean it's not there...

@mazzel
No I exchanged funds with a vendor in exchange for a product. I made no agreement with the manufacturer. The product might have a EULA, but purchasing the product is not an acceptance of those terms unless they are presented to me before purchasing the product.

Even sxos support chats mods stated, that its a piracy tool in the past.
Sxos does also use open source code without giving credits or sharing the code of modules they are legally obligated to provide because of the license. Only parts that are really from them inside their cfw are mainly their bootloader, the cheat engine, everything related to backups or pirated roms, and USB support storage support, everything elso comes from atmospheres code, or some other open source projects.
Also their backup loading of legit self created Gamecard dumps isn't safe since Nintendo dropped the 9.x firmware, and sx doesn't seem to care about it, so the only legit backup use case they supoorted doesn't seem to be that importend to them. Instead the add more ways to install Gamecard backups which is one of the unsafest ways possible, and only really useful for pirates.
Sx also includes copyrighted material in their cfw binaries, which is one of the reason you are not allowed to link to them on pages like gbatemp.
Another thing they did with their modchip, is to block other cfws from running on newer switches, by clearing all the encryption keys needed to run.

Other cfws show how it could be made better, atmosphere ships without backup support, and so without piracy support, you need to include third party patches to make this possible.
They also don't ship with copyrighted code included in their binary and give proper credit to the third party code they use. The atmosphere devs also contribute quit a bit to the knowledge about the system and homebrew development tools, which I have never seen from sx.

So while I'm all for homebrew and modding, sxos clearly is focused on piracy and making a profit from it.

It wouldn't surprise me if all the people that claim other people to hack their switch for pirated games only, are the same people that think every PC gamer is a cheater and a pirate.

Games are cheaper than ever, we are not in the DS/Wii era when a lot of people used non legal ways to pirate games, I remember those times and back then indeed A LOT of childeren I knew had a DS with a R4 card or a hacked Wii.

But nowdays it's not that easy anymore, it is not as simple like "copy roms to a micro-sd, insert that into a R4 and you have tons of games for free", nowdays most people even trying to hack to it for other reasons.

Yes there is and always will be that someone that will pirate their games, but to read claims here in the comments like "99.9% of people do this for pirating games" tells more about how small people actually know about the true reasons behind it, which for most people is homebrew to enchance the possiblities of the Switch (like being able to make local save backups, even a Vita can do that Nintendo...)

Again piracy will always exist, but the mothods got harder (compared to simple solutions like the R4) and games got cheaper (15 years back pirating games was more common than now, and some companies even went as far ar producing fake cartridges)

But to claim it is still the same... nah it proves some people prefer to be blind to the true reasons nowdays, and I know their statement will always stay the same no matter how much you prove them wrong.

I even bet some of them come with their own "proof"...

Anyhow hacking the Switch in it's own is legal under certain circumstances, homebrew in it's own is legal too as long used in the proper way.

And before someone claims I hack my systems, because there is always that one person that has to say it based on nothing, I do not because I prefer to keep my systems as vanilla possible, but I do have plenty of knowledge about the matter enough to even know how to do it myself if I really wish too.

@Rayquaza2510 most people who just want to enhance their switch, or develop on it don't use sx cfw, since there are free cfws, that are able to anything sxos does, except for playing backups, for example atmosphere (which also also the base of most cfws available, including sxos).

Nintendo is just pissed that their new revisioned Switch and Switch Lite are being hacked, that's why they took action.

@TG16_IS_BAE So what’s wrong with a company protected its invention? If the EULA only protects the company (which I’m not arguing), how is that a problem? To me, it’s kind of like copyright law. A copyright only protects the holder, not the consumer. The license agreement protects the company against things like reverse engineering and piracy.

@shaneoh I don't think it is that easy. To make trades less complicated, at least in Germany the terms only need to accessible for the buying person easily. For example in a super market, they hang on the wall so you can read them. Buying online you have to click the check box and therefore agree to them.
Coming back to the hardware, maybe you read my comment I made to heavy arms above, then I don't need to type again
In short, I agree your hardware and you are free to do what you want. But everything that will touch the Nintendo Ecosystem like online services or games will give Nintendo the right to exclude you from, because a modified hardware is a potential risk to the ecosystem. And pirating games is not legal in any regard, I think we agree on that. By enabling easy back ups, Nintendo would open the door for that, so from a companies point of view it's clear to not do that.

@Hartie95 I know, what I mean (in short) is that hacking on it's own doesn't mean people do it for piracy, by far not.

The EULA thing is weird, I've never once been sat down at a store counter and asked to read a legal document before I purchase. Additionally, good luck trying to return a product once you've taken it home, opened it up and read and disagreed with a printed EULA. And if it's a digital EULA, perhaps you will miss it if you begin the hacking process before it pops up.

You can't agree to a EULA at point of sale because it isn't provided for you before you purchase. You can say it's online or whatever but it needs to be in the shop with big writing saying "agree to this before you purchase". I do wonder how many game stores will have walls of EULAs for each product they sell 🤔

@mantez They have gone after people who did that.

If that is the intended purpose of their tools then they should make them so they can't run illegal copies. But of course, it is not, and they are full of *****.

Hahahahahaha good

are many illegal things here. Anyone need nintendo permission to release something to the console, even if sell hacked systems dont was illegsl. Jail to this guys. The people who lost their switchs because the brick for sure are not happy

@Mother_Fan hey little man, when big people are talking it's time to sit in the corner and be quite. Now go be a good boy and pipe down.

@gcunit It already bricked many Switches. And they get irreparable if it happen. Just to you know.

Real Hackers don't take money. Team-Xecuter are businessmen and because of this - and only because of this - Nintendo's doing right in this case.

These guys have been pushing boundaries for years, now when Nintendo finally goes after them, they complain like their being attacked.

They knew Nintendo didn't like them hacking the system but sure, okay, just don't show anyone else, but they did.

Then they go ahead and copy the games too.. basically trying to say you're not pirates when all hackers since 2017 have been pirating games on the Switch.

They are getting EXACTLY what they've been asking for.

Nintendo made the games and Nintendo made the hardware to run the games. If you interfere with their ecosystem to offer a service, and profit from it, then you’re in the wrong. Pretty simple. If Nintendo ain’t getting their cut then your product is whack.

All of which violates the TOS of the system and its OS. Which means Nintendo has every right to defend their product that they spent who knows how much to develop and market. Don’t like it? Hack something else without a TOS (good luck finding it). Or build something of your own.

"Our products allow the end-user to make legitimate backups of their original cartridges that they can keep to themselves and play, but this is only a very tiny subset of what the SX products allow you to do."
Yes, a tiny subset because there is very little purpose in doing this. Cartridges don't break easily. The primary use of this feature is software pirating.

@Entrr_username well in order to play Mother 3 I have to download a rom of a game that Nintendo refuses to bring to the west. And you're not a true mother fan if you think Nintendo will do that. Does that make me a wrong person? No.

"Our products allow the end-user to make legitimate backups of their original cartridges that they can keep to themselves and play"

That enables pirating!

@Adam if fully implemented it can also be a comfort feature, and make it harder to loose cardiges when using the switch on the go.
But for that it first needs to be implemented properly, and since fw 9.x you can't play self created backups safely online anymore, and TX ignores this, instead they add more even unsafer ways to install "backups". So the user created backups are probably not the main fokus of their product.

Back in the 1980s, Franklin Computers sold clones of the Apple 2 and the IBM PC. I had the IBM PC clone. It was the weirdest architecture, the motherboard was a card that plugged into the main bus. The video card went and it cost $300 for a new one. Apple sued Franklin and they got out of the clone business. My first eReader in 2000 was the eBookman by Franklin, and it had very little available in the way eBooks.

@Creature "If the team had broken the law, they would be arrested and charged. That’s how criminal law works isn’t it?"
I do know that when the "repro" market started up, one fan translator tried to get one such bootleg producer's website should do, the bootlegger quickly moved his hosting over to another country that is far less likely to care about enforcing copyright laws.
That's probably how these hacking groups work as well. You have to find the people and bring them in.
Actually, that was how Nintendo crushed one bootleg company in the NES days called NTDEC, a Taiwanese company that made copyright-infringing Famicom carts under the trademark-infringing name which meant "Nintendo Electric Company". Once they opened a US branch called Caltron (which by then I think had to more legitimate unlicensed games), they still smacked them with a massive lawsuit.

@shaneoh They are presented to you. On the purchase confirmation page there after links to the terms.

@Krull What, that I lack sympathy when a multi-million dollar company loses a few bucks when someone pirates them? I guess I can see why that’s funny! And uh, no I probably don’t have a nicer car than you LOL

@Hartie95 Thanks for the heads up! It’s definitely very tempting and looks easy to try!

@Collette Thanks!!

@Blizzia No thanks! No need to try to police people in the comments, by the way! Keep it light and fun mate!

@PickledKong64 Exactly the kind of argument I had in mind, as well. There’s a Japanese version of Berserk on the PS2 that got a fully translated fan-patch. I can’t apply the patch to my disk as I lack the tools, but through emulation I can now see what the heck they are all saying lol.

It’s like people on this website forget that GOG is a thing, too. If piracy were so black and white, well, there’s a company that doesn’t condone DRM and doesn’t care if you share what you bought. In fact, they encourage it.

@WesEds You're familiar with contract law in all 50 states and copyright federally to even know if the EULA is legal or enforcible? I mean, it's not like there's a story on cnet from May 9, 2018 where the FTC called Nintendo and Sony out for illegally claiming user repairs voided the manufacturer's warranty or something. Oh..

@TG16_IS_BAE Hard pass! Someone has to teach the heathens what is wrong and what is right my dear

@Blizzia Thank god for social distancing, KEEP BACK 6 FEET PLEASE SIR/MAAM (teasing!!)

@Kalmaro Difference is that Team Xecuter make money off it, whereas other methods of hacking the Switch do not.

@TheDavyStar That I can understand.

@TG16_IS_BAE: Nintendo isn't just a multi-million dollar company,
there are tens of thousands of workers there trying to make a living and they do a good job most of the time.
Hackers should at least respect and stay away from the source material until it isn't sold anymore.

I always side with the pirates. But these guys are clearly pirates.

When SX OS first came out, there was no way for an end user to back up games, so its use was only for piracy (on top of being a paid hacked OS). Wish these pirates would stop lying through their teeth.

@GumbyX84
I went into the store, asked for a working Switch and exchanged cash for it. That was the extent of the trade.

@mazzel
The only information I see displayed around here relate to consumer rights (mostly the reasons for which the consumer may get a refund).

I do agree with the majority of the rest (though I think that piracy of games older than ten years is fair game).

@shaneoh for me personally it depends on the availability of the game. If it is like many SNES or N64 games, that they are only available as a rom or overpriced cartridge on eBay, I somehow agree that piracy is ok. If the game is still available and reasonably priced, then piracy is a no-go. So I wouldn't put an age-tag on it, more something like an availability tag.

Sue them into oblivion Nintendo, please!

@Razer with that forehead? i don't think so!

A lot of software is digital only and when your Switch dies in 10 years Nintendo will do nothing to help you get the software back at that point, if you ever want to play that software again you will have to hack or emulate a Switch. These guys are doing us a favor in the long run, I feel better about buying digital knowing that if I lose it all I can hack it all back.

You agree to this when you buy hardware from Nintendo. They are enforcing the EULA.

"Nintendo End User Licence Agreement:
1. License Grant/Restrictions.
Subject to the terms of this Agreement, you may use the software, content, and data that came with the Console, or that is compatible with or authorized for use in connection therewith, including any updates or replacement to that software, content, or data that we or our authorized providers make available to you (collectively, the “Software”). The Software is licensed, not sold, to you solely for your personal, noncommercial use on the Console. You may not publish, copy, modify, reverse engineer, lease, rent, decompile, disassemble, distribute, offer for sale, or create derivative works of any portion of the Software, or bypass, modify, defeat, tamper with, or circumvent any of the functions or protections of the Console, unless otherwise permitted by law. Content obtained through the use of an unauthorized device, or through the unauthorized modification of Console hardware or software, may be removed. You agree not to use the Console in an unlawful manner or to access the consoles, devices, accounts, or data of others (including Nintendo) without their (or our) consent."

They also know the hack makes it extremely easy to play pirated games. Of course "this is not our intention", what a crock of sh*t. Also, they are making money off of it. They are not doing this so people can upload their games.

If nintendo wants to control hardware in my home, then they can pay for it. My switch, I will do what I want with.

@TG16_IS_BAE
You defend hacking because you are good at English, but people in a country like me who can't speak English hate hacking. I live in Korea and have actually seen sales of Nintendo and Sony drop sharply due to console hacking. So Nintendo and Sony stopped supporting Korean in the PS3 and Wii era. Even in the case of PSP, people didn't buy any softs per console. Game companies still support English and Japanese even if hacking is widespread, but not Korean. Therefore, most Korean gaming sites like nintendolife are prohibited from mentioning console hardware hacking. I want you to know that there is a situation like korea or small language group before discussing consumer rights.

@TG16_IS_BAE
In fact, the hacking group said, "Console hacking is not for illegal copying," but at least in Korea, everyone used it for illegal copying, and Sony Korea and Nintendo korea sales fell to the bottom and MS korea eliminated the game department. And Team Xecutor is the group that hacked into the xbox 360.

@Nourldean they weren't selling pre hacked switches with games pre loaded. They were selling tools to hack your own switch.

@shaneoh You were presented the Terms when you booted the system for the first time. If you didn't read it or care about it, that doesn't mean it doesn't apply to you. Stick your head in the sand all you want, but just because you don't understand you entered an agreement doesn't mean you didn't anymore.

@sdfkj213 Hi, thanks for replying. Have a great day.

@Real_Obsi lol criminals. I love this site, lmao

@Creature please list the so called codes and source materials if that is so true. And verify it with Nintendo codes. I betcha you can't because you have no access to NIN IP source otherwise your breaking the law.

Hacking your own stuff is fine in my books, But selling that software to other more unscrupulous individuals isn't

Selling hacked consoles is just asking for trouble but I am not against hacking consoles or backing up games. Left to the corporations you will own nothing. The games and hardware you pay full price for will still belong to the corporations and without emulation and backups, you'll just be 're-buying' the same games over and over again.

It's a mistake to think that corporations care about consumer rights, they don't.

@GumbyX84
Whether I hit agree or not is irrelevant. I paid for the product, they can't force me to into a contract after the product has been purchased, it has to be negotiated beforehand.

@WesEds Just because Nintendo has a EULA doesn't mean the customer is bound by it. There was the infamous sell your soul EULA which I'm pretty sure was non-binding.

Hope this works out for Nintendo like their attempts to snuff out the game genie did.

It's much easier to talk about what is right than what is legal.
Is it wrong to steal games? Definitely. Is it right to punish all users by forcing them into draconian EULAs and terms of services that destroy the concept of personal belongings and private property just to catch a small minority of amoral individuals?

Nintendo goes after everyone and you all always make excuses for them. It doesn't matter if it's piracy or even illegal. It's one of the reasons I have no respect for then.

I assume Nintendo doesn't care and just wants to drain you of funds and drag you and even your parents through court for the next decade to punish you. Then give you a suppression order so you can never publicly talk about it as if it never happened.

Bare in mind, these are also the people who stole other people’s hacking tools for profit.

https://youtu.be/JLxh4HFlDz0

copyright laws literally say that owners of teh IP can control the copying and distribution of their work. nintendo is in their legal right to ban the manufacuting of "backup cartraiges" especially when we all know what people are really doing with the backups.

for those who are saying it's unethical. these people are shamelessly "stealing" profits from nitnendo.