Nintendo's legal eagles have reportedly begun targeting sites hosting compiled versions of the Super Mario 64 PC port which was made available on the internet last week.
According to a follow-up story by Torrent Freak, after the initial VGC report, links to download the executable version have started to disappear from various file-hosting websites.
The action - at least in part - has been taken by the US-based law firm, Wildwood Law Group LLC. The firm has supposedly worked with Nintendo in the past to "suppress the availability" of modding tools and related products.
TorrentFreak was able to get hold of one of the complaints filed with Google (via LumenDatabase). Here's exactly what it said:
The copyrighted work is Nintendo’s Super Mario 64 video game, including the audio-visual work, software, and fictional character depictions covered by U.S. Copyright Reg. No. PA[REDACTED].
The reported file contains an unauthorized derivative work based on Nintendo’s copyrighted work.
Nintendo has also been targeting YouTube channels for uploading footage of the PC port - with many videos receiving copyright claims.
Despite the legal measures taken so far, there are still some cases where Nintendo's law firm has filed complaints and had no luck getting download links removed. If we hear any more developments, we'll be sure to let you know.
[source torrentfreak.com, via videogameschronicle.com]
That's why news sites shouldn't cover these projects because that's what gets Nintendo's attention. And then they ruin it for everyone
So many will already have it and it'll just reappear when all the initial fuss dies down like it always does. I'd imagine these kinds of things would be less likely if Nintendo made them more readily available in the first place instead of this drip feed of Nintendo online
lol @ thinking you can remove a file from the internet
I’ve bought it like 5 times. I’m sure Nintendo won’t mind that I managed to download it before the takedown. These people know it’ll get taken down. You just can’t take something down that easily.
@KillerBOB I wonder how many copies already exist and it'll be everywhere again in 6 months anyway, remember when they went after all the rom sites and they all vanished? Now there seems to be more than ever
But why Papa Nintendo? Why can't this be considered abandonware like so many pc game websites claim 25 year old games to be?
@PickledKong64 "hey gaming news source, dont report on gaming news"
@tendonerd Because Nintendo will be selling it again in some repackaged form soon enough...
PC Abandonware is (usually) truly abandoned by developers and publisher, but Nintendo loves repackaging their classic games again and again...
@MysticX idk how doom 1 and 2 can be considered abandonware when the ip is active and the games are still sold. They're just piracy sites like this Mario 64 project is piracy.
@tendonerd The notion that Nintendo has abandoned a Mario game is the [superlative redacted] [obscenity redacted] suggestion I've ever heard. Congratulations on taking fanboy apologist arguments to unprecedented levels.
@tendonerd Hence my use of the word "Usually", sure, some of the games are still commercially viable, but most of the games on those sites have been truly abandoned.
...or so i've been told.
@MysticX ports have been around since the beginning of gaming. PAC man was ported to the nes for example. This gen has been nothing but a port of last gen. Nintendo is not the only ones. The fact that you can buy a Beatles song off iTunes and its not lost to the past with records shows that ports will always be there if people want to item.
@PickledKong64 If news sites didn't cover it 'everyone' wouldn't know about it.
Y'know, why can't Nintendo just re-release it themselves on Steam? There's a clear demand to do so and it seems to me like easy, easy money.
That's okay, Nintendo. You just remain your petty self. I already grabbed it anyway...
@Donutman Fair enough, but let's compare abandonware with the musical equivalent: Music that hasn't been re-released on streaming services or even CD, would that be ok to be available online through "Abandonmusic"-sites?
I'm not arguing that "Mario 64" should be available free, it's still being published, and is still available through "proper channels", so that's one thing, but claiming all abandonware is piracy is a bit simplistic (Although sites like GoG.com are doing a good job making more classic games available again)
Haven’t tried it yet. I had to grab it. I was lucky. Letsa go
@1UP_MARIO TBH it was a letdown to me.. Didn't notice much of the widescreen.. don't know.. I didn't get the feeling "now I have to play this all day". I played and stopped after 5 minutes. The horrid N64 controls when you walk on those platforms are a turn off. This game needs a true remaster
Nintendo: Issues take down order for unauthorized use of the properties that they have put time and money in to establish their business.
People: wHy DoEs NiNTeNdO sToP tHeSe PrOjEcTs?!
It is in the news now, eventually a month later there will be something else to talk about. Just like AM2R, people will move on and the .exe will continue to thrive on being hosted in other locations.
Super Mario is owned by Nintendo. It 's their property. They are protecting their work as anyone else would do for their work. People that disagree are immature, possibly future criminals and in a way, even dangerous.
Makes me wonder if this is all to do with that rumored SM64 remake. Nintendo pulled something similar when that fan-created remake of Metroid 2 just happened to launch weeks before the reveal of Samus Returns. Could be the same scenario here
I know why news sites report on this... It's free clicks.
1. Free clicks because some idiot thought to get away with it.
2. Free clicks when it eventually gets pulled and people want to rage in the comments.
@TheLightSpirit A talent for stealing. Do you want the hire the thief who breaks into your house???
@PickledKong64 They would have still found out about it lol.
@TheLightSpirit That’s like hiring your identity thief.
@MysticX I'm not arguing that "Mario 64" should be available free, it's still being published
@tendonerd @Averagewriter as far as I know, the source code of Doom was released for public by id itself, but NOT the WADs, so even there it will be piracy to share the whole game or to use Doom graphics or music/sounds
Someone needs to tell Nintendo about the Streisand effect.
Taking information off the internet is about like trying to make water not wet.
@Crono1973 you can still buy Mario64 in eShop for WiiU
@Cosats What's childish is not understand that not everyone agrees on copyright lengths.
The first copyright law in the USA for example is from 1790, it was for 14 years and could be extended another 14 years. Using that standard the original Mario games would no longer be protected.
To suggest disagreeing with extending copyright into infinity is dangerous is ludicrous.
Ok well the Nintendo DS version has been out of print for a long time and the Wii U is discontinued as well.
Some folk really want Mario in the public domain hahah. You guys crack me up. Can I have a yacht while we are being unreasonable.
@Cosats Let's not get dramatic here lol
@TheLightSpirit Christian Whitehead had a lot more talent than the people who ported Mario 64. I mean the port of Mario 64 is kinda impressive I guess but running a 2d platformer in HD widescreen in a new engine with the same gameplay feel is much more impressive.
Well, if Nintendo is, as rumored, releasing remasters of the 3D Mario games, I’m sure they don’t want these floating around.
@earthb0und they're still ruining the hard work of those who made this. And if big companies news outlets post about it nintendo will see it. I mean if nintendo gives them review copies they probably check this site
Unlike Nintendo games made in Dreams on PS4, Nintendo can't really put a stop to a PC game once it's been released on the Internet. It will just be kept alive through torrents and other sites. AM2R, for example, is still easily downloadable to this day.
@Crono1973 I've heard of this project be4 it got coverage. Yall dumb af
The issue with ports of games to other platforms without authorization are a few different factors. If it's just a proof of concept and they have no desire to release it then not much Nintendo can do. That and it does not harm Nintendo because it's not being released and is just a modder showing their chops. The problem is as soon as you release the proof of concept to the general public than you are in trouble.
Let's take a similar project which is Skyblivion. The reason that mod is able to exist is that they cannot use any Oblivion asset and the mod will require both Skyrim and Oblivion to run. That and the mod team CANNOT make any money off the project. It is a similar situation with projects like Beyond Skyrim and Skywind. These mod authors have to play by Bethesda's rules or they will be shutdown.
The problem with this project is that it is just Super Mario 64 running on PC. They are using assets from Super Mario 64 and the direct code from Super Mario 64 and all of that COPYWRITTEN ASSETS are available directly in the download and install. It's not like you are required to rip the game yourself to run the executable. IF the project required that then Nintendo would be able to do nothing! The problem is that this just Super Mario 64 code and all being distributed and is an unauthorised port to the PC.
To be fair, this project is harmless, no one is making money off of it, but it's also Nintendo's property. They are allowed to do what they want and they don't owe anyone anything. I get so tired of these angry mobs going after companies taking down unauthorized content. Sure, they don't HAVE to, but they also are ALLOWED to.
@PickledKong64 How very hipster of you
@Cosats That's the most right-wing thing I've seen on here today. How can you come to that conclusion?
@ivory_soul If Nintendo allowed it to exist it sets a bad precedent of them not protecting their IP. If they don't take this down than they potentially lose the copywrite to Super Mario 64. It's a legal mess and because this is not authorized by Nintendo then... well you can't blame them for taking it down if you are illegally distributing their copy written assets.
@Wexter Still, if they wanted to they could. That's my point. Of course, they won't, but that falls into "it's their property they can do what they want". I get it. Trust me.
@ivory_soul Nah it's cool. If it was just an executable that extracted the code off the ROM and then ran it native on the PC then I think the project would be in the clear. That's how emulators get away with existing is because they are not using the copywritten code or distributing the assets. I just wish projects like these put more forethought into their release than we wouldn't be in this mess... sadly.
@TheLightSpirit It doesn't matter on what platform you put it. If you release / sell / publish / etc something you don't have legal rights to you are in fact stealing the rightful owners money. I hope Nintendo sues them.
You can't take someone else's work, update it, and release it as your own without permission. That's true of Nintendo, as it's true of you. Imagine if you wrote a book, and I took that book without asking, updated it and gave it away for free on the internet. Who am I to do this? What right did I have?
It's even more of an issue with a franchise. Mario is Nintendo's biggest franchise. Forget commercially, it is an IP associated with Nintendo. Now imagine if this developer added something dodgy into the game. Or made blood squirt from the enemies, or redesigned bowser to look like a giant penis... Nintendo cannot have that go out, because it's their IP and it's associated with them. It makes complete sense that they would want to have control of their IP.
Of course, this stuff sneaks out there in the corners of the internet. But supressing this in the main is understandable. Especially as Nintendo is planning a Mario 64 port for Christmas.
Good that Nintendo did that. Even if it is free, it is still stealing.
Maybe Nintendo should put it in their sucky Nintendo Switch Online service. It might take more than 5 minutes of effort though.
Okay, fine. Protect your IP. That’s your right. However, there wouldn’t be a reason to put these things up if you would get the ball rolling on a proper, HD, virtual console on the Switch. Sony and Microsoft continually do this on their systems, yet you stopped with the Wii U.
Nintendo is nervous there own remake doesn't look as good as the fan made one and they don't have anything else to release till after fall.
@Crono1973 It was rereleased for Nintendo DS, which (Through compatibility with 3DS) is still somewhat current.
@Zorox88 What are you basing all of this off of?
@-Juice- Sony and Microsoft does VC better? Ha you give them too much credit. When was the last time we got a digital Legend of Dragoon or Silent Hill PS1 VC for PS4? Oh yeah on the freaking PS3.
@retro_player_77 Let's take Final Fantasy VII for example, with one purchase of $9.99 you can play it on the PSP, PS3 and PS Vita. Now let's look at BC Xbox 360 games, you can play them for free on the Xbox One if you have the disc.
Finally let's look at Nintendo. Want to play your Wii U games on your new console, buy it again. Want to play your VC games on your new console, subscribe to NSO and hope they have the game you want. In fact, VC has never let you carry over your purchases for free.
I only want it now that Nintendo says I can't have it.
It plays great and they even ported it to switch
I'm glad I found it now before it becomes hard to get.
It runs really nicely.
Nintendo, I bought Super Mario 64 twice already on different Virtual Consoles. Why can't you just allow us to keep our already purchased games on new systems? Fan projects like this are usually made in response to your lack of user-friendly options
@MysticX No it’s not because the game is no longer available new from Nintendo.
As usual the responses to a takedown are a bit myopic. The quality of the fan project, the method, and the fact that people have it already is immaterial. Nintendo has to take some kind of action otherwise people will take it as open season on Nintendo's properties and will use the time Nintendo let one slide as precedence. And the next one that comes along might not use Mario in such a harmless way.
@Crono1973 It's still on the Wii U eshop. Both N64 and DS versions
@Anri02 Wii U is discontinued, you want one you’ll have to buy it used which is the same as buying the N64 or DS version. It isn’t being sold by Nintendo.
@Crono1973 You can still purchase it on the Wii U eshop. You can say the Wii U is discontinued, but that doesn't change the fact it's still a product that they are selling on the Wii U eshop.
@Crono1973 They did do it for the Wii U and it did not help sales at the end of the day. The Wii U had a built-in Wii mode which allowed you to just simply play VC, Wii Ware and Wii games on the Wii U in HD with zero fuss. Did that equal sales? Maybe 1% of total sales were because of its outstanding backwards compatibility. The Switch does not run on PowerPC architecture and is a cartridge-based system so how do you expect to play Wii U games let alone Wii games on it?
The Xbone is not even fully compatible with 360 or Xbox games. It requires an update for you to download the game off the server to your system as the 360/Xbox disc is basically just a DRM check. The PS4 is not even backwards compatible! To play PS3 games you need a PSNow subscription! And that is to just stream the games at varying quality. Let's take the Last of Us, to play that on your PS4 you need the PS4 version. To play it on your PS3 you need the PS3 version. Notice your double-standard? Sony does not care about anything pre-PS3 look what they released Jak 2&3 as? Look at the Rachet and Clank collection? When was the last time they did anything with Legacy of Dragoon or Twisted Metal? What about playing God of War 1&2 on your PS4? You can only buy God of War 3 on it (the PS4) when the PS3 had the Complete Saga collection on it!
My point is all three of the console manufacturers are just as bad. But, at the same time, we're dealing with ageing technology. At some point even Microsoft's solution won't work and that one is not even perfect as the games still need to be ported to the Xbone before you can even use your already owned 360/Xbox games on it! Backwards compatibility is an amazing feature! But, it is not a console seller as both the Wii U and the Xbone can attest to.
@Anri02 I don’t even know why we are having this conversation, it’s not like the game will go into public domain once the Wii U eshop shuts down.
@Wexter You only seem interested in how much money Nintendo made from BC. I was speaking from a consumer point of view. The two are not the same.
Every time this happens, it's always amusing to see how many people are ignorant of why Nintendo must do this and how many are also just waiting to pounce on and attack them for doing it.
I would have much more respect for folk defending this sort of thing if they just admitted they want free games. We all do, but we don't talk absolute drivel trying to justify it.
@Crono1973 No you were making a direct comparison to Sony and Microsoft. Notice how I lambasted both of their "solutions." I would love being able to play all of my games on the newer system with zero fuss! I would love that! But, my point is all three of the console manufactures have yet to find a perfect solution! Even the OG PS3 which could play all of the PS2 and PS1 library required a PS2 to be built into it. At some point, we have to evaluate this rationally and look at all three companies at both their successes and failures. And the roadblocks they may face providing backwards compatibility.
i.e for Nintendo using completely different architecture and media to provide games at.
I'm far from defending Nintendo I'm just saying you are very, very wrong with how you're presenting the issue.
@GrailUK ....but we don’t want free games. I think most people want Nintendo to release this game on NSO or remake it. No one here is asking for free games. I wish people like you would just admit that you don’t know what people want.
@Wexter Oh I see, unless someone has a perfect solution, they are all exactly the same?
I would say that Nintendo is dead last. They don’t offer BC and the subscription games they offer are pretty pathetic compared to PSNow and Gamepass.
@Crono1973 We’re having this conversation because you claimed the game was no longer being sold, which is false.
@Anri02 Yeah but now that we’re past all that, does it even matter if it’s being sold?
@Crono1973 Then be patient like the rest of us because 'I want them now' is an even worse excuse.
@Alpha-2002 Because apparently, they plan on putting the game into a compilation for the Switch, or at least on the Nintendo 64: Nintendo Switch Online App, where it would take TWO Joy Cons to function as one controller for N64 games, not ONE Joy Con! They might as well add in an N64 Controller you can get for the Switch that makes it easier to play them.
Of course, there's the notion of the N64 Source Code Leak, and the potential to use that towards the hypothetical N64 Classic Edition!
@GrailUK How about you stop accusing people of wanting free games?
@Crono1973 Excuse me while I roll my eyes into the back of my head. You are misleading the issue. PSNow is not a great service and you can maybe play turn-based games on it, but as soon as you try to play games that require twitch reactions like an FPS, or Stylish Hack and Slash it's a busted service. At least the NSO service works! The only company I think is doing a competent job right now is Microsoft and even they have major roadblocks getting games designed on more or less PCs to run on newer hardware.
At least Nintendo is trying to provide these services in a way that most consumers can make use of. And you've yet to answer me on how you expect the Switch to have proper backwards compatibility with a system that ran on PowerPC and used optical discs. :/
You have no issues telling me how I'm clearly in the wrong. What is your solution? How do you think Nintendo should handle bringing just Wii U and Wii games to the Switch without re-releasing them and they maintain complete functionality.
@Crono1973 You made a claim that was false, and I corrected it. That was all there was to it. Any other meaning you may have pulled from our conversation is a construct of your own making.
@Wexter My job isn’t to solve Nintendo‘s technical issues. PSNow only requires an active connection for PS3 games. PS2 and PS4 games can be downloaded. All Gamepass games can be downloaded. NSO is offering 30+ year old games only. It’s not even comparable. Microsoft does offer BC for many 360 and original XBox games. Of course Nintendo is dead last.
@Anri02 Ok, I presented a new question but if you don’t want to talk about that, it’s not a problem.
@ReaperExTenebris I don't think that is the issue at all. PC is the future and so is streaming. Nintendo just cannot allow an unauthorized port into the wild. I'm sure they probably have thought to bring NSO to the PC at some point. They have dipped their toes in the past for PC ports like Devils Third. And they have also allowed P* to put W101 on the PC.
@ReaperExTenebris What would you have done in their position?
@Crono1973 I'm sorry, I just can't think of any other reason that would make me stop and think Nintendo are being unreasonable here.
@Crono1973 I don’t care for the question you asked. My goal was to correct a false claim, and I did just that. You can continue to have that same argument with the people you are already having it with, but I will not be participating
@MysticX if Nintendo do rerelease Super Mario 64 again, lets hope they don't put the dumb ass darkening filter they put on Wii U VC. I feckin had to go and hack my Wii U to remove it from my VC purchases - also I was pissed off how they slapped out DK64 without adjusting the analogue deadzones and preventing the emulator from running in 16:9. Pure disrespect to fans - I emailed and complained but they ignored.
As for all these takedowns it was proven Nintendo lifted their emulation code directly from free opensource/homebrew emulators.
A bit of give and take here Nintendo.
@GrailUK I think people are happy to pay to play it on a modern system.
@Crono1973 YOU CLAIMED it was so easy the floor is yours. Give me your solution! I'm willing to listen.
And PSNow (I have used it) does not work! It only works for PS4 games because you can more or less rent the games. And the PS2 games that you can play are at best shotty ports i.e. look up how Jak 2 is ported to the PS4 because Sony has no quality control. (and out of 4489 games that are on the PS2, a total of 54 can be played on the PS4... impressive)
MIcrosoft's solution as I admitted does work. But your disc is a DRM check. At some point, you won't be able to use those discs on future MS consoles so at some point it won't work. Just like the issue the Switch currently has.
You seem to be very ill-informed on how a lot of the backend tech in these consoles actually works. And how a lot of these services are at best a bandaid solution.
@Anri02 Fair enough. I agree that they are still selling it on a discontinued console.
@Wexter I didn’t claim it was easy and it isn’t my job to care how the backend works, from the consumer point of view it either works or it doesn’t.
PSNow works fine for me for PS2 games and the PS3 stuff works fine most of the time too. Depends on internet speed.
You keep asking for technical solutions but the bottom line is that Sony and Microsoft do what Nintendon’t in regards to BC and subscription services. You seem to think that if a person doesn’t provide a technical solution then they can’t discuss the issue.
@Crono1973 And I am telling you how ill-informed you if you think Nintendo just flip a switch and they are holding out on you because they are lazy. And noticed how you said PSNow works... "most of the time." That is not good BC that is a shotty service you're paying for and you should demand better! And if you claim that Nintendo are being lazy stop being an ill-informed consumer and get knowledgable about the topic.
Being a consumer requires you to be aware of this stuff. Just saying it "works or it doesn't" is at best, misguided nativity. And actually look at the PS2 games you can play on the PS4 they are unacceptable the way they are being presented. You'd never see Nintendo release even close to the shotty workmanship that was done to Jak 2/3 and Ratchet and Clank which are two cornerstone PS2 franchises.
@Wexter What are you talking about, I just stated the facts, Nintendo is dead last in this area. I never said they could just flip a switch to be up there with Sony and Microsoft. I don’t care why they are dead last, I am just stating the they are dead last in the areas of BC and subscription services.
You are being dishonest when you lump all of PSNow into the PS3 online only category. Both PS2 and PS4 games work fine as they are downloadable. At least Sony is offering PS2 games in their subscription service. Nintendo isn’t offering GameCube games on theirs. Microsoft offer both original and 360 games on their service.
Nintendo is dead last in this area and I can’t see how that is even debatable.
Knew it would happen
@Crono1973 Not all PS2 games are downloadable on PS4. Only the ones that got ported can be downloaded and they have MASSIVE PROBLEMS. And where is God of War 1&2 on the PS4? Where are they? There is God of War 3! But, where is God of War 1&2? That is a Sony-owned IP! Why would they only release the third entry of a trilogy on their console but, not the first two? And the fact that most PS3 games are close to unplayable because they are "online-only" is equally as bad! Sony even forces you to pay full price for PS2 and PSOne games you already bought on the PS3! Sony is a joke when it comes to BC and defending an at best an okay service called PSNow is laughable.
Microsoft is doing okay. I actually want to get an XSX because of their outstanding support of Xbox and 360 games on the Xbone (a console I do not even own). But, I'm fully willing to admit I'm in the minority of people who would buy a console for BC. I missed out on a ton of MS content this gen and I cannot wait to enjoy them on XSX or my PC (which runs an RTX 2070 Super and a Ryzen 3rd Gen CPU).
Nintendo is facing unique challenges with the Switch. And they did fantastic BC work with the WiiU and even then... sales of that console did not justify such an amazing service. I still love my Wii U. But, porting Wii U games to the Switch is not really plug-and-play. Same with the Wii because a Joycon and a Wii Remote work very differently on a fundamental level. I'm sure the Big N will gladly release an N64 App when the time is right. And, I'm sure they will provide Gamecube games in time, even Super Mario Sunshine, and Metroid Prime Trilogy are heavily rumoured to be coming out. And did you forget how amazing they brought the Windwaker to the Wii U? You'd never see Sony do that for Jak 2... or most of their legacy software.
@RPGamer Hey RPG! Nah I agree and I enjoy the concept as a proof of concept on the possibilities of N64 games running on the PC. My wish is these kinds of projects got smarter on how they deliver them like the Skyrim Remake scene.
If it was just an executable that extracted the code off the ROM and then ran it native on the PC, they'd have no legal trouble at all. They are not providing any copywritten work and are not using Nintendo's code. The same reason emulators exist without legal backlash. But, yeah most people don't tend to think of that and just release it and the Ninja's get it.
@Wexter You can complain about the quality of PS2 games on the PS4 (PSNow or not) all you want but they are there whereas the best Nintendo is offering are SNES games. Nintendo’s subscription service doesn’t even offer current gen games like PSNow and Gamepass does.
They are dead last in this area, just accept it.
@Crono1973 I think Sony is worse because they lack the love and care of actually providing their legacy in a presentable way. Say what you will about Nintendo, but they'd never push a service that most consumers cannot even make use of and most of the ports being fundamentally broken or not even to the same quality they were on the original console. The fact that most PS3 games are unplayable on the PSNow due to lag. Or IF a PS2 game can be downloaded it is a buggy mess. Sony does not care about preserving their history and the really poorly implemented way they're going to do BC on the PS5 is just... shameful. A badly implemented on the basics BC is just not good... I'd rather a barren service that runs these games as intended, or just not at all.
I'd rather wait and have it done properly and have my memories of these games by tarnished by buggy, and broken ports. At that point, I might as well just keep my old consoles which defeats the purpose of BC.
@Wexter I kept my old consoles, it always the best way to play, especially if you have a CRT.
@Crono1973 Then why even bother caring about BC? If you're just going to keep your old consoles? Why rant to the heavens about a service you do not even use!? It's just finding something to get mad about!
@PickledKong64 yep you dont care if nintendo loses their IP hard work? fan projects have always been a no no not because nintendo owns but they could lose all their rights if it gets too big
I don't get the argument that it Nintendo made these games readily available people wouldn't make fan games or play ROM/ROM hacks.
Even during the height of the Wii VC days, ROM sites, ROM hacks and fan games were very much a thing. People will always download these games because they're free, doesn't matter if Nintendo has them on their digital store or not.
@Wexter Just stating facts, Nintendo is dead last in this area. Oh yeah, about Nintendo’s quality control. Didn’t N64 and NES games look bad on the Wii U.
BTW, I do use the service. What makes you think otherwise? Do you think NSO stops working when I hook up my SNES?
@Crono1973 No, I'm asking a serious question. They generally worked as intended if a bit dark. They didn't introduce bugs into the games that is unacceptable. Why do you care so much? Just a general question if you fully admit the best experience is on the original console, why care how these services perform?
If you use these services but agree that PSNow introduces bugs and is generally not playable for most PS3 games and the PS2 games that can be downloaded introduce bugs and are not visually the same as on the PS2... then how is it better then NSO? Is it the quantity of games on a service or the quality of the release that makes you think that way?
@Wexter Are the PS2 games playable? In my experience they are. I have had no trouble with the Dark Cloud games or Star Ocean 3. I can’t speak for every PS2 game on there. Do the PS4 games work on PSNow, yes of course they do.
Nintendo doesn’t offer anything past the SNES and they haven’t released anything new on NSO for going on 4 months. They won’t even keep us updated on upcoming NSO games. For all we know there will be no more. Of course they are dead last with their subscription service. It just isn’t debatable.
@Crono1973 But, there is a huge difference between "playable" and "as intended." Playable just means you can play the game... not that the game runs as the developers intended for it to run. Sony forces a lot of games into wide-screen that a lot of PS2 games didn't make use of. So they stretched the screen or they forced the game into wide-screen and the UI is in the original 4:3 ratio than 16:9. Or in the case of the Jak and Daxter games, they introduce new bugs into the games that can halt your progress.
And PS4 games work because you are using PSNow as a renting service and downloading the games off of Sony's server onto your system. But, if you try to stream PS2, PS3 or even PS4 games on your system if you do not have excellent connectivity... they're unplayable or introduce laggy audio that can break the experience. That is not saying if downloading most PS4 games from PSNow will even be an option on the PS5. And what about the PSOne support? Where is Legend of Dragoon, Silent Hill or other PSOne classics you bought off of the PS3? Why can't I run those on my PS4 and I have to repurchase those games? Not even at a discounted price like the Wii to Wii U's upgrade service. You have to pay the full amount again if those games are even released at all.
Seems you're more into the concept of quantity rather than the quality of the release. I've heard no one complain about the authenticity of the experience on NSO games. Or that NSO introduces new bugs to existing games. Based on my experience NSO seems to be on the right track to providing an authentic experience. They just lack the number of releases of PSNow, but is also a far younger service and delivers an overall more authentic experience.
Don't get me wrong! I wish Nintendo would be far quicker with their releases rather than this drip-feed approach, but they are of a much higher quality when they do come out, than Sony's recent outings.
@Crono1973 Please tell me you’re not starting the whole “they’re never going to add anything else to NSO” thing again. Last time it happened, literally a week after that it was updated.
@Wexter Don't get me wrong! I wish Nintendo would be far quicker with their releases rather than this drip-feed approach, but they are of a much higher quality when they do come out,
They are ROM dumps and they don't look very good on an HDTV.
Playable just means you can play the game... not that the game runs as the developers intended for it to run.[/b]
...and unavailable means 100% unplayable which is where Nintendo is at. How in the world can you argue that a playable PS2 game is worse than not having any GameCube games available at all?
I've heard no one complain about the authenticity of the experience on NSO games.
Authenticity is fine if you paid extra for the NES controllers but otherwise the controls aren't the best for NES games. They offer no way to remap buttons either. Maybe that helped sales of the NES Controllers.
SNES is better because of the matching face buttons.
Also, the NES app has the UI always on screen. You have heard no complaints? I haven't been in the NES app for awhile so they may have fixed those problem but they did exist. Another thing that exists is the lack of a D-Pad on the Joycons and the poor D-Pad on the pro controller.
Please tell me you’re not starting the whole “they’re never going to add anything else to NSO” thing again. Last time it happened, literally a week after that it was updated.
I said that we just don't know because Nintendo doesn't keep us updated. I think it's obvious these games are a low priority for them since they won't even commit to a monthly schedule.
@tendonerd They probably just offer the Shareware versions
@Crono1973 “ For all we know there will be no more.”
Edit: Oh wow. I was thinking about this one guy who was freaking over the NSO last time I was discussing with. Turns out it was you
@Anri02 Yes, that's the same as saying we just don't know.
@Crono1973 See my comments from last time we had this argument.
@Anri02 What is the problem here? Saying 'We just don't know because Nintendo doesn't keep us updated' is now in dispute?
@Crono1973 I’m not having this argument again.
Every time Nintendo does this I just download everything. When they went after ROM site I downloaded every NES, SNES, N64, GB/GBC/GNA, and GameCube game.
Bonus is this is less than 7mb. 277 seeders on pirate bay currently.
@Anri02 Fair enough but all I meant when I said 'For all we know there will be no more' was that we just don't know when or IF there will be more.
@Wexter PSN gives is free games that switch owners beg to pay $60 for. How much are you guys going to pay for borderlands handsome collection? $30? We got it for free last year on PSN.
To say that NSO is anywhere close is laughable.
@Trajan To say that NSO is anywhere close is laughable.
@Crono1973 So, the fact that you're playing a broken port does not upset you at all? Would you let Nintendo get away with releasing let's say Super Mario Sunshine that is missing visual effects and Mario's arm just disappeared during gameplay? Okay, guess I know where you stand. Most of the "issues" for NSO's NES app I can just buy a cheap 3rd party clone-USB NES controller for 10 bucks. There is no way for me to "fix" a broken port.
@Trajan OBJECTION! I'm not saying NSO is a fantastic service. At the end of the day, a subscription for it costs me maybe a cup of coffee a month. And most of the time games that show-up on PS+ don't even interest me. But, when discussing the porting work Sony has done with PS2 games, and the fact that their streaming service is close to non-functional for most titles is just sad. Considering you're paying for PSNow ontop of your PS+ subscription that is bonkers that they can release that kind of service and people will pay for it for a substandard way to experience PS3 and PS2 games. It's basically a glorified renting service. As soon as you stop paying for PS+ or PSNow you lose access to those "FREE" games and anything you downloaded through PSNow.
At least Nintendo is upfront that the NES and SNES App are part of your subscription and don't call them "FREE" games.
@ReaperExTenebris Speak for your damn self, man. Nintendo has every right to protect their property. I am not angry with them for pursuing legal action (the very nature of copyright law basically forces them to do so).
If Nintendo is, in fact, in the process of literally updating this classic with a remake/remaster, it makes a ton of sense to tamper down an unofficial high-resolution rerelease. This is especially true of such reverse engineered coding that also allows things like third party shaders to be used in the game. It directly affects their potential profits for a new release if, just months prior, players already played another rerelease (again unofficially).
It’s illegal in some places to reverse engineer code and then release it to the public, but what especially pissed off Nintendo was the executable someone made that attached the actual IP content of Mario 64 to the reverse coding. Now you’re playing with absolute legal fire.
Nintendo is very likely in the right, where law is concerned, here. The unofficial distribution of their content is absolutely protected.
@Wexter So, the fact that you're playing a broken port does not upset you at all?
Well I haven't had any issues with the PS2 games but emulation is never perfect so I have no doubt that you speak the truth. Still, I would rather have Mario Sunshine with bugs that don't make the game unplayable than not have it at all.
At the end of the day, a subscription for it costs me maybe a cup of coffee a month.
The old standby that I hoped we wouldn't see here. 'It's ok for NSO to be inferior since it's cheaper'.
As as soon as you stop paying for PS+ or PSNow you lose access to those "FREE" games and anything you downloaded through PSNow.
That's how NSO works too except that the NSO games are just NES and SNES games.
@liveswired Yeah the darkening effect was annoying; made Paper Mario’s vibrant world look dull. Thankfully, it was easily fixed with TV picture adjustments
@Antraxx777 Yeah the darkening effect was annoying; made Paper Mario’s vibrant world look dull. Thankfully, it was easily fixed with TV picture adjustments
It can't be called high quality emulation though.
@Crono1973 But, these are not emulated games. There are games that have been ported to the PS4 and why is Sony using a substandard emulator? These are PS2 games being released by a major AAA developer who has access to the source code of the PS2. There shouldn't be major bugs in these games or introduce bugs to these games. You should be demanding Sony presents these games the way they were at least intended to look or if they force the picture into 16:9 if the game was not designed that way to rework the UI to match the new picture.
And NSO does exactly what it says on the tin. I pay a couple of bucks a month and I get to play games online and a growing library of NES and SNES Games to play.
Let's compare that to just PSNow which is $12.99 a month and there are no PSOne games, PS2 games are shoddily emulated at best, and PS3 games are particularly unplayable with their streaming service. The best part of that app is just being able to download games that you don't even own your basically just renting them. You're paying a substantial amount of money your money should be going to the least a service that functions 99% of the time without requiring an insane internet connection.
PS+ says these games are FREE, but what they don't advertise is you need to keep your subscription to PS+ or else you lose access to these supposedly FREE games. So you're basically forced to keep up your subscription or else oh no your library of games is gone.
You claim to be pro-consumer yet you have no issues turning a blind-eye to Sony's shotty service, ports and the fact they handcuff you to pay for PS+ to keep your FREE games.
Yet you put the Hammer of Damocles to Nintendo's head because they are not releasing games fast enough. Even though admit there are technical hurdles get these services onto the Switch. You are either naive, ignorant or just like living in a world of double-standards.
@Bolt90 exactly, this reminds me of the outcries on Push Square when Nintendo was taking down Dreams creations containing Mario and other IP's.
Everyone was like "this is anti-consumer, Nintendo bad, boo-hoo", as if corporations were charities and weren't out there trying to, you know, make money.
This does put a smile on my face
@Wexter But, these are not emulated games. There are games that have been ported to the PS4 and why is Sony using a substandard emulator?
Are you sure the PS2 games are not emulated, I can't find any information stating that this is the case.
And NSO does exactly what it says on the tin. I pay a couple of bucks a month and I get to play games online and a growing library of NES and SNES Games to play.
Ok but what it says on the tin is still inferior to what Microsoft and Sony offer.
Let's compare that to just PSNow which is $12.99 a month and there are no PSOne games, PS2 games are shoddily emulated at best, and PS3 games are particularly unplayable with their streaming service.
The PS2 games are playable and the PS4 games run the same they would if you paid $60 for them. Meanwhile, Nintendo isn't offering any games from the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox generation and they aren't offering any current gen games on their subscription service.
The best part of that app is just being able to download games that you don't even own your basically just renting them
Why do you keep saying this as if it's an advantage for Nintendo, the NSO games are paid rentals too and they stop working when you stop paying.
You claim to be pro-consumer yet you have no issues turning a blind-eye to Sony's shotty service, ports and the fact they handcuff you to pay for PS+ to keep your FREE games.
I am pro-consumer, our opinions differ on Sony's shoddy service and ports. If Sony handcuffs you to continue paying to have access to the games, then so does Nintendo with NSO.
Yet you put the Hammer of Damocles to Nintendo's head because they are not releasing games fast enough. Even though admit there are technical hurdles get these services onto the Switch.
You said yourself that the drip feed sucked. We agree on that. As for technical issues, you keep trying to pull me into that and I keep telling you that it isn't my job to care about or solve technical issues on their end. I am just stating, from a consumer point of view (that's my job, I am a consumer) that Nintendo comes dead last in regards to their subscription service and BC.
You are either naive, ignorant or just like living in a world of double-standards.
Let's not resort to personal attacks please.
@ThanosReXXX Nothing petty about it. The game can still be bought on Wii U and, if rumors can be believed, soon to be Switch. Open availability of a free version of a potentially profitable game is just bad for business.
@Crono1973 I'm pointing out your hypocrisy on a lot of these games. And a lot of these PS2 games on PS4 are just ports. Some are emulated some are straight ports, some are part of collections, but they're still substandard. Just being able to play the games sounds like you're just giving Sony a pass because the service exists. Even though you're paying far more than NSO for the NES and SNES apps, yet are not annoyed by the shotty workmanship. So, you're okay if Gamecube games are on the Switch even if it is overall at best substandard? That does not sound pro-consumer.
Just because a service exists does not make it good. Playable is a very low-bar for something to pass. If you're paying $12.99 a month you should be getting at the least an authentic experience with these games without being blamed if your internet is bad or if a game can be downloaded getting an overall inferior product to something released almost two decades ago.
And look I'm not saying downloading current games for a fee a month is a bad thing. But, I'm just saying is if a service is advertised as the best way to experience PS2 and PS3 games it's best feature should not be the fact that you can use it to basically rent PS4 games. That has nothing to do with BC and you brought it up as if it was related to BC when it's not. When we know that out of the thousands of PS4 games a hundred of them will maybe be playable on the PS5....
It's in fact anti-consumer to settle for a feature that just simply works at the bare minimum and pay a premium price. Maybe Nintendo has yet to release an N64 or GCN app because they want their consumers to have an authentic experience with those games. Maybe they are being held back because they don't want to just release something for the sake of releasing it?
I keep mentioning why Nintendo has yet to release GCN or Wii games and that there are technical issues. You keep saying that shouldn't matter because you don't care if its bad, just that it exists. But, when I ask how you'd solve the rather legit issues that exist you say it's not your place, but Nintendo is still bad for not doing it? You see why I'm confused? Notice how contradictory you sound? You complain about a problem yet have either no understanding or ignore why the problem exists. Yet you expect it to exist even if its a bad job and that makes it better?
I give up. NSO is the inferior service, feel free to disagree.
@Antraxx777 No amount of adjustments corrects it, it may look ok after tv adjustments. They put an actual filter on that you have to remove.
They did this because they were forced to offer the reduced price upgrade path for Wii VC owners. This angered Nintendo greatly to do this for PR reasons, so it was their middle finger to their long term fans. Basically you want a cheap upgrade? F U we'll reduce the image quality.
@Wexter Nvidia shield already has perfect wii and gcn emulation.
Nintendo certainly do not offer perfect emulation on their consoles.
Nintendo like to control everyone.
@ivory_soul how does that make me a hipster? You're the one riding nintendo here
Lol at thieves not being allowed to steal games. Thieves are scum of the earth.
@liveswired What Nintendo is offering isn't perfect, but its rather solid! And far more authentic than what Sony offers. It's as close as they can without it being pixel perfect. That and the current sound issues are more an issue with how the SNES' soundchip worked in comparison to modern systems. They'd have to re-record every game OST in the emulator and that would be very taxing for each release and it will never be 1/1 perfect.
Just because it can do perfect emulation with Wii and GCN doesn't mean the delivery method will work. For example if they wanted to make it seamless like the NES or SNES app they could struggle with quick and snappy downloads. Or minimize it for a quicker experience. Or in the Wii's case offer similar enough controls or pointer controllers. This is would be a major issue for stuff like House of the Dead and Sin and Punishment. Less so for stuff like Madworld or Super Paper Mario where it is just gesture-based motion controls.
My point is just because they can do it doesn't mean they should do it at this moment unless it's ready and cooked. That and it's convenient. I want GCN and Wii games on the Switch done the right way!
“Good Nintendo, good. Kill it, kill it now.”
Good thing these guys had the foresight to release this port without announcing much in the way of information beforehand therefore drawing Nintendos eire & the inevitable shutdown that tends to happen to a lot of these fan projects cos as we all know once something is on the internet its there forever👍🏻👍🏻 Let this be a lesson to anyone else in the future who fancies developing any fan projects based on Nintendo properties- keep it until yourselves until your project has been completed and uploaded😜 Just common sense really with what we know about how Nintendo views these sorts of things.
oh no a huge corporation will make around 200 dollars less now
@liveswired That's a beautiful theory, but it makes no sense, the dark image is also on the og Wii version.
Nintendo has been doing this 'dark image' thing since the Game Boy Player.
Its purpose is at this point clear as day. It's to reduce health risk from flashing and other annoying patterns that can come up in a game. There are plenty of games that can't be edited to remove content, because the effect or design would just fall apart. The best example would be Pulseman's intro on Wii, it's a TV static screen, the whole game is now darkened thanks to that. I'm sure there's probably some contradiction here. Since this is a Genesis game and its VC is not developed by Nintendo means they could've approached it differently (blending frames together or finding a way to just show one frame of the static. But in the end the cheapest, fastest way is to turn off the lights.
The reason why they included it in EVERY release for Wii U is unknown, but you can safely guess it's for the same reason they didn't do DK64 widescreen and messed up analog controls, i.e. they lazy!
Lazy, but I have no reason to believe they've lifted code from homebrew emulators, see the N64 VC far outshines the PC emulators, at least during the Wii days. Furthermore the WarioWare demo disc on GC had a GBA emulator that was running at full speed without problems, at that time the only possible emulator to 'lift' from was VBA but that would never run at full speed on a GameCube. No doubt the same emulator used for Pokemon Box RS.
@Averagewriter "Nintendo has an obligation to protect its IP."
Yes, that's exactly the point I was trying to make!
Nintendo has every right to do this. You don't get to just STEAL, someone else's IP. You just don't.
Ninty is just pissy b/c their source code got leaked, lol
Nintendo being Nintendo again. Keep defending them.
We're about to see SM64 in everything now since the source code was reversed engineered.
Can't wait to play it on a smart fridge or on the Macbook Pro touchbar.
Have to hurry and make sure you download the files before Nintendo ruins it
That native PC port was pretty spiffy, even if it had issues like the bosses behaving incorrectly.
No biggie that it gets taken down.
They can't really prevent the guy from working on it, and there are other ways of distributing his progress.
@Averagewriter Nintendolife is my source bud.
I would like to see them do a full proper remake of Mario 64 but build it around the DS versions additions but add like 20 more levels.
It would be cool if someone made a free pc game someday that was similar but non-infringing. Like Super Tux and Super Tux Kart but a 3D platformer
I honestly can’t believe people are still doing things like this. It’s illegal. As in, it’s against the law. How many other laws are these idiots breaking? I just can’t imagine not having respect for the law or for what is right.
@Averagewriter Nintendo always give the big middle finger, Reggie was given the middle finger too, did you know Nintendo print off photographs of the middle finger and send them to developers and publishers they don't like. 😂😂😂😂
@ml156 There is already much epic 3D platformers largely influenced by Mario 64, the most recent I can think of is A Hat in Time and it gets in sale sometimes for cheaper than your average Starbucks Coffee
But of course, everything should be free in life, right ?
Nintendont mess round.(yes i just said that)
While people complain about Nintendo constantly shutting down fan games and other fan projects, this is totally different, because they straight up took a copyrighted game, ported to another platform and are giving up the game for free.
A fangame still uses Nintendo characters without permission but it's a different game that has original stuff like levels, graphics and music, but this is the same game as 1996 Super Mario 64 but running on PC without an emulator, this is straight up illegal, this is a very cool project, it's interesting to see that fans know more about Super Mario 64's code than the people who made that game, but there's no way around this, and not only there's no such thing as abandonware in legal terms, but Super Mario 64 keeps getting sold again.
@Dringo that's literally culture. You are saying that no ideas shall ever become part of the common culture. You would have us paying a license to Uggs descendants for the wheel.
@PickledKong64 That comment literally made no sense. How am I riding Nintendo? Your comment is basically stating "I'm better than all of you because I found out first" very hipster AND very childish. You get a twofer
@ivory_soul I knew about it but that doesnt make me better. Never said it didnt make me better
@ALinkttPresent From what I've seen online, this was originally meant to be released as source code only, and the Nintendo assets for the game had to be provided by a rom of the game and compiled by the user.
@Alpha-2002 Nintendo has stated that they're not going to bring their games to PC, or any other console than their own.
People need to stop wishing that Nintendo go third-party.
@ATaco You're gonna have a tough time if you want to justify something clearly illegal.
@StevenG Oh I didn’t realise this only used the ideas of a Mario game. I thought it was the same game.
I’m now going to go around and take all the things you’ve ever done. Paste it in a nicer font and explain how that now makes it mine, because I was only using your ideas.
@Dringo You should remember to take your medication.
@StevenG I am not the one suggesting a piece of work created by a game development team that’s not only still alive but still active should be in the public domain. Even in books, which is generous with these rulings, do they become in the public domain until 70 years after the death of the author.
You’re advocating support of theft of someone else’s work
@Dringo No one said that. You are hallucinating. please take your medicine.
70 years is not generous, you lunatic. 28 years total was quite generous.
@StevenG You can’t steal someone else’s game and use it. It’s the law. It’s an established concept all artists understand and signed up to. You can’t steal someone else’s book or movie or album. You can adapt it long after the author is gone and their kids have grown up. But it’s not this person’s property to mess around with.
I am not going to descend to your name calling.
@Dringo Again, you are addressing comments no one made. Please seek help.
@Alucard83 if you can't play Super Mario 64 its your ability that's horrid, not the game. I highly suspect you have never played the original on real hardware.
The N64 game is designed to work with the N64 controller.
The problem is I've no doubt that if you've played this on VC - Nintendo never adjusted the deadzones for Wii or Wii U controllers. If you have played it via PC no doubt you haven't adjusted the deadzones.
@victordamazio it isn't illegal but. The game isn't supplied with the installer.
If Nintendo make a HD remaster, with modern visuals people will buy it.
However if they throw SM64 on a cart and charge for it, that will be the fourth time some of their fans will have purchased a game they already own.
HD Mario's like "Mama mia, I got sued".
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