Frustrated Super Smash Bros. Fans Get #FixUltimateOnline Trending On Social Media

#FixSwordAndShieldFirst

#SpeedUpNewHorizonsIslandVisits

The biggest problem for me, and why I don't really play Ultimate online much, is the fact that it just feels like a big step back from Wii U's online multiplayer. They really should have kept the for glory/for fun modes in my opinion. Not make it so you can usually but not always get into the type of game you want.

Also not being able to change characters between fights with a particular opponent...I'm sorry, but that's just stupid.

Nintendo's online service is rubbish all round, easily the worst service out of the console providers with so many basic features missing or hidden behind an app, even then often poorly implemented. So many Nintendo online games have issues such as Animal Crossing with its irritating loading screens for visitors and multiple dialog options to even start such a thing, Smash being unplayable much of the time and also Mario Maker being a slide show most of the time. Just things like inviting a friend to a game and being able to talk to them are unnecessarily difficult for Nintendo and now they are charging for this "service" it only highlights how poor it really is

Smash is one of my favorite games but since quarantine(for me month and a half) i never played it once i tried once a test online match just jabbed a few times the input delay was horrible so i immediately closed the game changed it

@Octane that's on gamefreak not nintendo

The netcode is just horrible, Nintendo need to sort it out. It’s a shame, Ultimate’s the best game yet but they still can’t get the online to y’know, work.

and some questionable nintendo fans asked me why i never renewed my online membership. that's one reason among a ton of others.

They should outsource implementing rollback to a different Studio. It feels like Smash Bros is currently being worked on by Sakurai and his PA. NAMCO helped develop Smash and none of their games use rollback netcode. Delay based netcode is ridiculous for a modern fighting game.

@Casual_Gamer95 the only reason I renewed it was because of cloud saves, in my case only 3 games lack full cloud save support (I don't count games that use own servers for that)

But it is annoying what Nintendo does with the quality of online, I know someone who plays Fornite on the Switch and that game works great because it uses it's own servers (not to mention the irony you don't need the Nintendo sub to play it online)

Meanwhile Splatoon 2 is a mess, and it seems Smash is too I didn't mind meh online from Nintendo in the past because it was free, but now it's meh to bad and they even dare to ask money for it.

This is beyond the technical scope of Nintendo’s abilities, they will have no idea how to fix this. Online gameplay is like an alien language to them they cannot comprehend.

I don't even invest in NSO for this stuff (as opposed to the cloud, the CGC and probably Tetris 99), but thanks to this buzz for sporadically reminding me that this game has an online mode.😅

You get what you pay for.

And to make things even more sad: the netcode of ARMS is actually quite good. As long as both players have good connections it plays smooth, even in the worst cases I've encountered it's still very playable.
Ultimate's online, on the other hand, is pure garbage no matter who you face v.v

How Nintendo can screw up so immensely 3 times in a row with the Smash franchise while getting it right with ARMS in one go... it's just baffling.

It really is a shame. I love Smash, but it really doesn't have much of interest to offer if you can't play with a room full of friends. I still can't understand how online worked better for Smash on 3DS...

@SuperWeird

The thing is they can just pay someone to fix it. They're one of the biggest companies in the world. Just hire someone with experience to implement it. SNK recently implemented it in Garou Mark of the Wolves, get the same team to take a look at Smash.

I feel like I'm the only one who has little to no issues with Nintendo online? Maybe it is because I don't play online very much and I am more of the IT person for the kids gaming sessions but Nintendo has very few issues but the XBox......it's always down, or slow & struggling, or something. My kids regularly play Smash, Kart, Minecraft, and Fortnite though with very few issues or hiccups. Experiences vary I guess.

#fixmylifenintendowhileyouareatit

I almost never play smash online, because I'm bad at it... But when I happen to I see how it's frustrating. I also play with a Lan adapter and have a 1Gb connection, but it doesn't solve the problem...

@Casual_Gamer95 Big ol' Ninty is the publisher, so they have some say in it.

I have tried online but the gameplay was very laggy.

While I rarely play online to begin with (it's usually just against friends sparingly) and that's decreased further with satellite internet (not fast enough for Smash to connect for a match) I can understand the annoyance big time. It's a service that we have to pay for, and it's getting more and more lackluster, between this, not updating the NES/SNES app regularly (still waiting on the DKC trilogy, EarthBound, Super Mario RPG and Super Mario All-Stars) and as mentioned a bunch of other stuff either not available or needing an app. It's pretty much a joke at this point.

I've had a couple of laggy matches which I put down to the other user's internet. Generally it's been fine for me though. I've played loads of Arms, MK8 deluxe and Splatoon 2 online and had no problems with them either. I agree with some of the above posts, this doesn't seem to affect everyone by a long way.

@SuperWeird
They probably have weekly meetings at Nintendo with the agenda being "what is the internet?"

I don't think they've found the answer yet.....

I haven't played any online match in Smash Ultimate, but Splatoon 2 is my single most played Switch game and I have never had much issues with that game. Same for MK8 Deluxe, Fortnite, Mario Tennis, ARMS and pretty much any other game with online modes.

Very peculiar...

It is pointless this pay to play online rubbish when the connection is so bad.

It is disgraceful.

@Giygas_95
Agree completely.

@mesome713
Not really. Before it was free and terrible. Now it costs extra, and it's terrible.

And it's not as though there's an option to pay more for a better service.

Moreover, even if a service is cheap, it still needs to be provided. If you rent a car cheaply, it needs to run at the least. And fluffy hanging dice (NES games) does not make up for lack of service. Nintendo is not even providing a basic online functionality.

This extends so much beyond Smash Brothers. Nintendo really needs to rebrand their premium service. They need to separate the online service from the NES/SNES catalog of games.

#StopDemaningdThingsFromCompaniesWithHashtags

I usually don’t have too many issues in smash, but Nintendo’s online situation is still archaic junk. Mario maker 2 Multiplayer straight up does not work

The reason I got rid of it. I mostly tried to play online but the lag was terrible so gave up - I dont have issues with other online games

I honestly don't think I can buy another Nintendo console until they fix their online services.

It frankly should be illegal. They're charging for something and not providing it.

Yeah, it's cheap. So's a big mac, but they can't get away with giving you half a burger.

It's bordering on contempt towards consumers at this stage.

I actually find this really strange as I have pretty bad Internet, around 10mb speed but very rarely have issues playing online. The weird thing is when I lived at my parents house a few years back and had a wired connection on my PS4, SF5 lagged quite often but from what I understand the netocde there is pretty bad. Not saying its not an issue because with all these complaints it clearly is just strange that I seem to avoid them.

Do think Nintendo need to put more effort into their online service overall from the connectivity, lack of party chat and the games offered with the service. I know it's cheap but that doesn't mean it can't be criticised when other companies charge more but you get a much better deal. Would rather pay more and get more than pay less and get a barebones services.

@Franklin it’s actually not even cheap lol. The initial hardware is lower, but they get you on flimsy joy cons and accessories and all that. Unless you just play everything solo offline, it ends up costing just as much as the other consoles. Compelling software keeps me coming back, but at some point, they need to get with the times at least a little

I play online smash somewhat frequently, and most matches feel great for me. Every now and then, there is a lag spike, but that's a rare experience for me. I mostly just stick to Battle Arenas so maybe that's the difference?

I don’t know why people complain about Smash online, and Nintendo online service in general. It works just fine for me, and I live in Bolivia, the country with the worst and most expensive internet system in South America. My advice to all complainers: get a new router, that’s usually the problem.

I've played third party games on Switch with better connectivity. Nintendo needs to address the terrible lag in their Smash Ultimate matches. It is the worst I have seen.

Yeah the online lags so much,it's sad

I only use my Switch for singleplayer or couch coop. Online and Nintendo is a ducking disgrace.

People with bad internet should just not be allowed to play online

@Wargoose there's literally rollback that's open source now too - but most Japanese developers refuse to use it because it wasn't "made by them." There's an actual Japanese term for what I said in quotes.

And I recall countless people in the Nintendo Defense Force saying, "Oh, Nintendo wants to go to paid online! Surely they'll do right by the fans! What could possibly go wrong?"
This. All of this. Not one dedicated server in sight. Netcode not improved. Online matchmaking as terrible as ever.
No more excuses. Enough is too much.

@TheLightSpirit

Delay based Netcode which is what Smash Bros, Tekken 7, Soul Calibur IV, Dragon Ball Fighterz, and Blazblue use is fundamentally not as good as rollback netcode. If you come across someone with a naff connection, or someone half the world away with this setup you will notice the lag, and experience input delay.

Rollback Netcode which is what Killer Instinct and Mortal Kombat 11 use is a lot better as the game isn't constantly waiting for your opponents inputs. It allows you to play someone on the opposite side of the planet to you with little to no lag.

SNK recently updated Garou Mark of the Wolves from delay to rollback. Arc System Works are updating Guilty Gear Strive from Delay to Rollback. We just need Nintendo and Namco to jump on the common sense train.

Good, hopefully Nintendo sees this and stops pretending they can't do anything about this. Nintendo will probably dance around the problem till the day they leave the hardware business

@Dang69

Exactly I think they're just stuck in their ways. There's no excuse in this day and age. This problem was fixed a decade ago, it's time developers implemented it. I love playing Samurai Shodown but the number of bad connections you get with people's miles away, sucks the fun out of the game.

I don't understand the argument of you should just get a better connection. It's a two way street, delay based requires both players to have a good connection. Rollback makes bad connections playable, so why is anyone opposed?

@Franklin - Your analogy is a little faulty.

Suggesting the cheap car to run is equal to internet being good is incomparable cause technically, they're still running internet service that... runs like the cheap car.

No defending it, just saying that's not equitably compared. I haven't had many issues with SSBU, but I still had more in it than Paladins on the same system. So there is that.

Also, #GiveMeFreeGamesCauseReasons

Of what I can say on the Smash Bros Ultimate netcode situation let me start by saying @Wargoose's commentary is quite on point. I've always known that the game's MP system was based off of a region-based Peer 2 Peer (P2P) Networking system. I wasn't aware of the delay/rollback netcoding debate points. So again, @Wargoose, thanks for that.

I agree though. The netcode needs massive adjustments (read: netcode rewrite) because with P2P Networking alone, it's Achilles heel is that if you have say 4 players together and you have 3 good quality connections and 1 bad. The bad connection is going to be the one that spoils the game for the other 3 because compensation is needed to allow effective gameplay and delay netcode just doesn't provide that. Rollback netcode could be what saves Smash or at least makes it tolerable.

My initial thought about Smash netcode was because you have a company like Bandai Namco working on the game why not transplant Tekken or Soul Calibur's netcode into Smash? However; if both games mentioned there use delay over rollback netcode I'm not sure that would make a difference.

Sakurai made a great point before the game launched to use wired Ethernet with Smash but Sakurai didn't realize that for many households wired Ethernet for Switch just cannot be done based on how the network architecture in many homes around the world are setup. Many homes are Wi-Fi centric in their network architecture and don't have setups that have wired Ethernet going through the walls with either Ethernet wall jacks or cables going through the wall room for room to plug into a room's network switch.

Also in my experience, do not think wired Ethernet is a solution here either everyone. For some it is (as known in the medical world as) a placebo. I've played Smash with wired Ethernet on my side of the connection and not only has play quality been atrocious but Smash itself blamed ME for the bad connection. I checked what my Switch was pulling down for download/upload speed and the numbers were awful! That was using the official Switch LAN adapter off the dock. I'm using a more powerful LAN adapter now (and even upgraded my room's Ethernet switch) but am hesitant to try it in Smash Online. Maybe I'll do it this weekend. We'll see. I know that was long but I wanted to make sure to add necessary nuance to my thoughts on the subject. Thanks and until next time I am out!

@TheLightSpirit

I've got high speed fibre as well. I'm in the UK and the game I play most online at the moment is Samurai Shodown. If I get someone in the UK or France, most times it will play fine. If I end up being paired with someone in the US or Japan it doesn't matter how fast my connection is. There will be noticeable slow down. I think this type of issue is way more prominent in fighting games like Smash. I don't think I've ever noticed lag in Mario Kart for example, I'm sure it's there but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game. Where as in smash and SamSho, I've had games where you're character feels like they're walking through treacle.

The annoying thing is it's a software issue not a hardware one. SNK fixed the issue in Mark of the Wolves, Netherealm fixed it in Mortal Kombat X, and Arc System Works are fixing it in Guilty Gear Strive. Nintendo is a much bigger company than the 3 I just mentioned, you'd think they'd be able to do something similar.

Mario Maker 2's online is terrible as well. Nintendo started charging for their online service not because it's valuable and they provide a lot of worthwhile features but rather, because they saw it as "Well, why not? Everyone else is." But even they realized they couldn't be so bold as to charge $50 for a bare bones service that offers nothing convenient and requires jumping through hoops with mobile apps just to talk to friend. No, no... $20 is fine. Surely.

online services are half-assed and save backing up is half-assed.

Why does Nintendo deserve money for this?

As others have said, ARMs and Splatoon 2 have reasonable online, so this kind of thing shouldn't be beyond Nintendo's current abilities.

And I've played using my brother's 1gb internet. Clearly there is more behind this than my own connection.

The only online game I seem to have problems with is Smash and I use a LAN adapter but guess another players internet could be causing the problem. It does ruin online matches so I don't play online too often besides the fact I lose most of the time. 😁

@NinjaSyao Splatoon 2 functions great as well.

I'll still pay $20 a month for basic online (I like the access to SNES games, playing Splatoon 2 online, Animal Crossing online) since it's cheap as well. Ultimate probably would have held me longer if the online was better.

The top 2 worst things the Nitendo Switch has are the internet service (as awful as always and not free as it used to be) and the prices for their games (all of them, first and third, except indies). Should they fix those issues, it becomes the best console ever made.

By the way, I also want to play with my brother from the same console against friends online! Why can´t we do that, when in Smash Bros for WiiU we COULD??? The online in Ultimate in even worse than before, and we are paying for it!! Nonsense!

#SwitchVirtualConsoleNow

Glad to see people finally standing up against this sorry excuse of online play for the most popular fighter on the market. All of the CO-VID stuff going on now is terrible but I guess there are some silver linings. Ultimate’s online has always been a pile of buns but now we got the competitive scene on our side now. Maybe Nintendo will finally do something about it as we know they’ve been listening to fans recently

@Xeno_Emblem They care about bad PR. A trending hashtag isn't a good thing for any company and they may be forced to respond if it gets big enough. Better than us doing nothing.

@RareAir23 to get a better internet connection for the PS4 I got powerline adapters that way I don't have to have long cables going from room to room. Just plug one close to your router and the other near the console.

@TrueAssassin86x you win 😂

@NntndoSwitcheroo hahahaha why do you think you’re “millions” that suffer that problem? First, it can be the other way you know? It’s actually a very small, but vocal minority, that most likely likes to complain about everything, because when they were kids mommy and daddy sorted everything out for them. The joy-con drift, that affects more people, I’m one of them. But there’s people that out of luck, have not suffered from that problem. And they can make their case too, if they want to.

@Octane i don't understand what you mean. if you're implying it's ok for people to defend this type of online service, then i strongly disagree. but if you were implying something else then, please explain to me because i don't quite get it.

I wonder which is funnier, Nintendo releasing competitive games with online options, or people complaining about being competitive on a Nintendo console.

@Octane Smash Bros Ultimate came out first

I have been blessed enough to have no lag when I played online. The matches, against various players, went smoothly. I rarely play Smash online, because I know lag will, or at least can be an issue.

I enjoy NSO for what it is. I upload/download/play courses in SMM2, I play Tetris 99 with others, I like the NES/SNES titles. Opinions vary, so others' mileage may, too.

@the_beaver what's wrong with the prices of games?

@Xeno_Emblem that was a stupid rant

I mean, it works well enough for me, but im pretty casual in my online usage. CTR is the game I play online the most, but NSO is hardly a bank breaking expense that it’s no skin of my nose... but those who take online seriously, I can see why this would be a problem.
Also, the animal crossing animation problem is more a design issue rather than the online not working properly

I don't think now is the right time to demand companies to make their already great games better. Sakurai was just talking about how he is struggling with the fact that he and many others can't work to their fullest.

Just go to a lobby. They are fun to me. And the only real problem I have with it is not being able to change characters when you want a rematch. That is a step back. But I still like the game even the online.

Defending smash online is silly but imagine someone defending Mario Maker 2's online.

I don't care that I'm paying for nso, but I haven't touched smash since 2017 because of the asinine online structure and dreadful performance. It's just sad. Instead of improving the game they're adding paid dlc and pumping out collectibles that nobody cares about.

Seems like theres always that one ignorant folk that doesnt understand the problem and always appears in these discussions. I call it the "It doesnt happen to me so it doesnt for anyone else" mentality. They usually tell people to "LUL GET LAN ADAPTER AND BETTER INTERNET", ignoring valid complaints that other people have.

This goes farther than awful netcode. The content of the online feature is a problem as well. Smash quickplays barely works. You get a lot of matches not on your assign ruleset, you can get in lobby hell where youre stuck and cant find players because one player that joined has poor connection and screwed your queue, There isnt a icon showing other players latency like most online games (also giving you a choice to not fight them), and you dont match up with people with your skill level depending on gsp everytime. Also why cant I switch my character, no wonder most people never do rematches.

Arena's are way better and Im glad they added changing ruleset in arena but why do we have to sit there during long lines doing nothing but spectate. How about add a training room or idk, let more than one fight happen in a arena?

Id rather Smash4s For Glory/For Fun system than Quickplay if it meant a more consistent experience. Not like the netcode is any different...

Nintendo, constructive feedback in math: more units sold= more money=more players=bigger servers needed...call 1-800-Blizzard and attend a seminar in Servers, and how about REAL app. Love you guys but you are so "dyed-in-the-wool!"

@Wargoose Venn diagram- Japanese fighting game netcode issues on the left. Nintendo lacking internet service on the right. Where they meet, Smash Bros

Nintendo Online isn't even a service, it's an entry fee. You aren't allowed to use your own internet connection unless you pay up. Imagine paying to be allowed to enter a fancy restaurant, but when you go inside it turns out there's no food, no plates, no waiters and not even a chef, you're supposed to bring all of those yourself and cook your own meal.

There were a few times that a streamer that I enjoy got Smash and were going to play viewer games and I got excited until I remember that the game is crap online lol

If they really cared that much they would have started this when the game launched. What a bunch of sheep.

@nintendoknife That is exactly what it not is.

Yeah, the online definitely has consistent lag & I get booted off randomly when searching for matches.

@Obitokamui64 This made me chuckle. It's essentially what my work staff meetings end up being 😂

I’m still waiting for Folders , USB Theme similar to PS4 and a Theme Shop like 3DS

N64 games and GameCube

I expected the Switch online to be a lot better 3 years later but it’s still lacking so much!

I just Switch had a lot of features that PS4 has

And lastly I wish we could switch up the game tiles like 3DS to make it easier on sorting games and making it easier to play games

Fanboys gladly pay the $20. Why change when you get free money?

At some point, it's a matter of Nintendo's reputation for quality. They don't have to have good netcode to make money; we'll all buy the game and the online service anyway. But Nintendo is repeatedly making it clear that they don't care about offering the best or even good online service. Over and over, they release slow, laggy online multiplayer modes. Smash Ultimate is the worst offender in my book simply because better netcode systems have existed since 2008 and Nintendo is choosing to use delay based netcode systems because they don't have to do better.

It's sad because they'll put shocking levels of effort into making a game the best it can be and then purposefully botch the online out of what has to be laziness or apathy.

@Casual_Gamer95 I think that Octane is saying that Nintendo also has a say on Pokemon Sword and Shield online, since you told him that Gamefreak is the one that should fix that.

Good to see the Smash Bros. fanbase asking for something that is not more Fighters.

There is a lot of room for improvement beyond more playable Fighters.

@NntndoSwitcheroo hahahaha with that kind of ranter, you’re everything you just said to me. And you didn’t provide any solid arguments to back what you said before. Go and keep lying to yourself, and grow a brain in that empty can you have on top of your neck

@Wargoose yeah I stopped playing Smash because of it. I'm not in college with a dorm full of people.

@Dang69

I'm lucky in that I've got a brother in law who will occasionally play Smash, but it's frustrating that this is still an issue in 2020.

The solution is even available open source. Yet still big developers like Namco and Nintendo, stick their heads in the sand and pretend the problem and solution don't exist. If people are curious folks can take a look at the list of games using rollback netcode by looking up GGPO on Wikipedia. Examples of games using it on Switch are Lethal League and Skullgirls.

The question is If Indie Developers can implement it, why can't Nintendo or Namco. I guarantee Tekken 7 and Smash have at least 10 times the budget of a Lethal League or a Windjammers.

@roy130390 that's great except never said anything about gamefreak i was just talking Nintendo online in general.

@Casual_Gamer95 This is directly copied from one of your previous messages:

"that's on gamefreak not nintendo"

That's what you said to him after he said to fix Pokemon Sword and Shield first. Keep in mind that tthe discussion and missunderstanding isn't with me, you can check your own messages and the ones he wrote in this same article.

Well... Even if they fix it so there is only 100 ms input delay, Smash would still be unplayable. It requires near perfect precision if you wanna play competitive.
Even if you play local with 2 consoles you get lag sometimes. Using the gamecube controller with the 8bitdo wireless adapter also gives u enougj input lag to put you in a disatvantage. What's more, playing with the oficial gamecube adapter also creates some input lag. Try to do a tornado quickly pressing left right left right... and u will see that with the gamecube controllers it lacks precision. You can then try with the pro controller and you will notice the difference.

So if the input lag is even noticeable with the GC controllers, dont expect a competitive online.

I don't mind playing by other peoples rules but the only issue I have with it is people pay every year to play smash online but people are geting warnings or getting banned for disconecting but like my self. In the past I keep geting disconnected for unkown reasons and and not touched any thing to do so it was more the fact the game will lag so mutch it will disconecting weather the opponent had a bad connection or that they rage quit eaither way I would get warnings saying do not disconect in future I'm like Its not my fault its lagy. So I stopped playing for a while I come back playing thid6 month on the 12th I did a team match with 3 other players and it was lagging alot but lucky the match went on and my team one but I checked my tag collection nothing the win was recorded in my data blog I go back online wouldn't let me back in quick play for a unkown reason I was banned from online matches for 40sec I'm like what did I do wrong. So after recorded the match I played back the replay my team clearly won the match my team didnt gang up on one player on the red team we knocked both of. But after the time out was up I get a worming saying I got disconnected I'm like no I didnt I won that match I didnt get rewarded for it. Most rules sound sence like rage quiting disconect or self disrupting on purpose by walking of the battle stage battle in favor to let a opponent win is understand but if the game automatically disconect and isnt controllable or self destruct cos you cant make the save i think that's ridiculous. Also think the should change it if any one who rage quits by disconecting by powering of or walks of the stage and self distructs to let a opponent win should get the penalty. And also they should fix the lags.