Last weekend, news surfaced on social media that Sony had begun to take action against certain uploads and projects in Media Mocule's latest title, Dreams. In particular, Nintendo-themed ones.
A user named @Piece_of_Craft shed some light via Twitter, explaining how they had supposedly been contacted by the legal and business affairs division of SIE Europe, as Nintendo had reportedly "objected" to the use of the Super Mario IP in the game.
Now, according to an update on GamesIndustry.biz (thanks, GoNintendo), it's been confirmed Sony is working to take down even more Nintendo-themed creations. Here's its exact statement:
Sony Interactive Entertainment is notifying the affected users that an IP Infringement Notice has been received from Nintendo and that the content will be removed. We cannot comment on volume of content to be removed, this is done on an individual case by case basis.
Seemingly it's the end of the road for all of those Super Mario recreations in Dreams. Even if creators attempt to upload them, from now on projects will be moderated and removed for containing copyrighted material.
It was fun while it lasted, but anyone wanting to play a 3D Mario title with cutting edge graphics is perhaps better off sticking with Super Mario Odyssey on the Switch.
After repeated attempts of copyrighted material not being taken down, Nintendo decided to just hire hitmen.
Sony is being very responsible by doing Nintendo's work for them.
Good, this is what needs to be done if they want to avoid trouble later.
Ugh, fan creations are welcome in every medium other than gaming, it’s bizarre. It’s not as if JK Rowling goes around taking down Draco x Harry fanfic in her spare time.
To be fair, Rowling angers the fans in much worse ways now
@nessisonett False equivalence. Fan creations that someone other than Rowling profits off of aren't allowed either.
I think it's cute that people think Sony or Microsoft or Disney or Marvel etc etc would be okay with people using their IP without permission. It's one thing to draw fanart or write fanfiction. But this goes a lot farther. Think about the precedent this would create if allowed to go unfought?
Dreams is fairly limited still. But imagine down the road more and more advanced creation tools like it are released and people start outright creating full games on these tools. That's going to cut into the profits quite a lot. It's already a growing problem that a lot of gamers just buy a Raspberry Pi with emulators and an SD card with pirated copies of the entire 8, 16, and 32 bit era libraries of games. But that still requires a certain amount of know how. But if you could just hop on a mod shop and download a recreation of Mario 64 for free and play it on your PS4, you think people wont do that?
Some peoples really want Mario on Sony machines.
However, do they also want Ratchet & Clank on Nintendo machines ?
I called this months ago. Mario is NINTENDO's COPYRIGHT/TRADEMARK. And please with the "fan made" stuff. Sony and Molecule are profiting off of persons posting "Playstation 2 quality" Mario crap on their servers. A direct violation of Trademark/Copyright. It's not even close and Sony's lawyers know it.
To those who bicker that Nintendo is a big bad meanie: let's say you create an amazing game called Mickey the Monkey. And it makes millions of dollars. Then someone takes the trademarked image and copy-written game play elements and posts on a server where two big companies are making money off of it (except you). You would have a tizzy and vehemently protect yours marks. And, btw, if you do not protect your marks, the longer the stolen marks are out there, the greater the chance your marks can get legally lost. So when you have a trademark, you must fight for it or maybe lose it.
And a side note on Dreams: I bought it. Played the (just ok, 70 min) single player campaign. Then spent over 10 hours playing one broken user creation (facilitated illegally by Sony and/or Media Molecule's servers) after another with graphics that are truly SUB Playstation 3. And as I played I said at least 25 times, "Trademark violation".
Also I was baffled this highly mediocre game was getting great reviews (thank you Gamestop for giving me $30 in trade 2nd week).
People, DREAMS is not that great. The idea is interesting, but, the interface to create these graphics/game play is weak. WEAKER than Molecules highly superior LITTLE BIG PLANET
Expect companies like Sega, EA, etc whose property is being stolen and put onto this crappy dream concept to be taken down. The fact that these trademarked images are on Sony's servers makes them a facilitator of this crime and you bet your ass Sony relented (and I am shocked they even allowed this dumb watered down game to even be allowed with no moderation).
@Anti-Matter I do. It'll never happen, but I would love that. Ratchet and Clank would fit on Nintendo much better than Sony anyway. Most major Sony titles go for that pseudo realism and vaguely dark and mature themes. Ratchet and Clank would fit right in with Nintendo IPs.
But Sony owns Insomniac now, from what I understand, so it'll never happen.
Sony does the pseudo-realism very well. Games like God of War, Spiderman and Horizon Zero Dawn for example are all extremely impressive titles and where Sony shines best. And are the kinds of games most Playstation die hards enjoy, along side their GTA, COD and Red Dead games.
I really think Ratchet and Clank would do better seated next to Mario, Link and Pikachu than Kratos, Arthur Morgan, and Aloy.
@Heavyarms55 Point is that's not ALL they're known for. You're leaving out a large chunk of there history dude. MediEvil, Patapon, Hot Shots Golf/Everybody's Golf, PaRappa, Gravity Ruch and all the things on PS1, 2, 3, P, and V. The heck is wrong with THEM doing all this? The only problem is your own limited mindset for thinking only Nintendo has the right to make these types of games.
@guestwork And folks, here are the enablers I spoke of. Who are 100% ok with others illegally using other companies marks. Guestwork, if you are so right in your opinion then why are Sony lawyers, by taking these down, think you are so wrong?
@guestwork Dude, calm down. No one is saying Sony does or doesn't have the right do make whatever they like.
All I said was that I think they excel and do best at their pseudo realistic game and that the more fantastic and colorful/cartoon-like style where Nintendo does better. If you disagree, that's fine. But seriously, calm down. There's no reason to get so combative and angry. If different gaming opinions make you so upset, then you're going to have a hard time in life.
@Anti-Matter I mean, that might be needed but I wanted to try reasoning with him. He just needs to calm down a little and watch his language. Different opinions are fine.
@guestwork I would have to agree that Ratchet and Clank would fit better on Nintendo consoles, but I have no problem with it being on PS only.
And you have to admit, Sony does mostly make realistic games with a few exceptions, just as Nintendo makes mostly cartoony games with a few exceptions.
I regret buying dreams now. It all looked so promising but the awe faded super fast.
Are there any cool Dreams projects aping Sony's own properties? :3
It's more of a fun creative tool for people that are already confident in their painting and prototyping skills.
@Pod sure. But the premise was both that and high level content to play. I bought dreams to play more than to create.
Dreams Terms of Service, article 4:
"By creating, posting, streaming, transmitting or providing SIE any User Material, you represent and warrant that your User Material does not infringe on the intellectual property or other rights of any third party and is not obscene, defamatory, offensive or an advertisement or solicitation of business and you have the appropriate rights to use, create, post, distribute, transmit and provide User Material and to grant SIE the foregoing license. You must cooperate with SIE in resolving any dispute that may arise from your User Material."
Yeah I know. But by know, Media Molecule should have realized that they can't rely on player created content to drive a product in the eyes of a discerning adult audience.
Roblox gets away with it because their players are ten years old, and because you can make money on entertaining those ten-year-olds within the framework.
But that's not really the model or the user base envisioned for Dreams. ^^
@Xylnox "After repeated attempts of copyrighted material not being taken down, Nintendo decided to just hire hitmen."
They tried agent47 but because hes on playstation and xbox he turned down the contract 😂
This is odd, can they really take this down when it is non-profit? I guess that Media Molecule indirectly "profits" from these creations but it seems like a stretch.
@nessisonett Even if a fan project game is free, Nintendo can still loose out by letting it exist in at least 3 major ways.
1 - People may choose to play the free fan game instead of buying an official Nintendo game.
2 - The content of the fan game may go against Nintendo and the IP's image. For example a Pokémon fan game where the Pokémon die, or a Metroid where Samus swears etc. These are damaging to brand image, something Nintendo spends a lot of time and money on. A parent might download this fan game for their child not really knowing the difference just assuming "it's Nintendo brand it should be ok" then find it has inappropriate content.
3 - The most important one of all. If they knowingly leave any up, even if they can see they are fine and undamaging. It sets precedent. Which weakens Nintendo's case against any other future ones. Legally, if they want to protect themselves and their brand they have to do this.
@Matthew010 Like... Metroid?
@dreamssux When Sony shut down a free fan game like the Little Big Planet one it's barely reported and Sony fans don't complain at all. Sony is a control freak company who is crushing the industry with their big wallet. That's why the reviews scores of their games lack genuine credibility. Sony is known to buy their success since the PS1.
Sony shut down one of the best websites ever because of potential piracy, they are reaping their just deserts.
@theJGG Sony’s doing Nintendo’s work for them? In this case, it is Sony job to remove content from their game.
Not sure what else you’d expect Nintendo to do here.
@glaemay so you saying that games like Horizon, The last of us, Spiderman, God of war, Concrete genie etc dont deserve their high scores?
@Octane Yes! Like Metroid!
Dreams is awesome. A great way to get to grip with the tools is to mimic something you know and love - hence the Mario ripoffs. Nintendo flexing their legal muscle is within their rights, so now Dreamers will move onto something else, or hopefully evolve their creations into something bigger, better and unique. Keep dreamin’ y’all
I wonder how much moderating is going to happen with this. Are they looking exclusively for Mario stuff, or anything Nintendo? There is A LOT of Nintendo stuff on Dreams.
Music, for example. Some music you can tell was ripped and recorded through a mic. Other songs were recreated entirely using Dreams, so they have their differences. Where would the legal line by drawn regarding music?
EDIT: This reminds me of a local moving truck I've seen. It very clearly has a Donkey Kong render on it. The "DK" is removed from his tie, but it is definitely an official render. I didn't get a photo in time, but it sure threw me off seeing it.
@Heavyarms55 And you are right, it is a problem. Which is why Nintendo needs to both hire these people to make official games for them or make getting access to their older titles possible by releasing N64 or even GameCube games on Switch Online or at the very least add a lot more SNES games to the service than they are right now. It's stupid how limiting the service is right now and the fact that the virtual console no longer seems like a thing as well as the fact that Nintendo is just putting more games on the service whenever instead of frequently like they did on the Wii is exactly why people do this.
It is a real shame and i wish it wasn't so but unfortunately it cannot be avoided...
@glaemay Little Big Planet a free game service? Stop being silly. People paid up to $60 to own LBP and use it's servers. Nothing free about that. And LBP closed not because of SONY, but because LBP popularity waned.
That being said, what you said has nothing to do with infringing on the trademark and copyrights of Nintendo.
@TAndvig "Non-profit"? Dreams costs forty bucks. That's profit, for both the developer and the publisher, and quite directly.
@dreamssux ok boomer.
Let's be real, as soon as one gets taken down a new one will appear, this could take months. I've played quite a few of these Mario "clone" games in dreams and even though some are graphically good they are all very generic one level designs. But I'm sure this is 100% down to copyright and not the fact that every day gamers with no game development knowledge can make better looking Mario games/levels in a short space of time
@nessisonett - Well, where do you think those "fan creations" are stored? Sony's personal servers. And who manages these? Sony.
Pretty sure that's a case where Sony doesn't want to see in court. There is a reason games that have allusions to other games very indirectly.
@nessisonett she endorsed The Cursed Child, the biggest pile of fanfic crap i have ever read so i don't think she really gives a rats arse
she already made her oney
I'm going to argue that Nintendo really does not "need" anyone to make their games for them. They're quite capable to releasing games of extraordinary quality. Or have people already forgot about Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, Luigi's Mansion 3, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Smash Ultimate, and Xenoblade 2 exist? Compared to most "projects" on dream its night and day the quality is highly in Nintendo's court. That and Sony really should had been enforcing this in the first place as it is on their servers. If these were mods and the mods were on something like Nexus, but this is a Sony game and the IP infringement should had been curbed on day one.
I will note that if a studio can pitch to Nintendo a new F-Zero I would not complain... I don't know someone like Shin'en Multimedia?
Dreams is basically a parody creation platform as that's what it's most popular for though.
It's what a lot of people even go into the game looking for.
Not sure how you can enforce all original content.
I would, for the sole reason that Orvus - Clank's father in the games - is voiced by Charles Martinet, Mario's voice actor.
The more you know.
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