Reggie "The Regginator" Fils-Aimé, former Nintendo of America President, has been discussing - among many other things - how Nintendo believed that before the Wii the games industry was in trouble, with stagnation setting in and increasing complexity in games blocking growth.
Speaking with GameDaily.biz, Reggie discussed how following the relative failure of the GameCube Nintendo flagged up complexity and 'sequelitis' as indicators of industry stagnation before ushering in the Wii era:
“... with the Wii, it's tough for people to remember, but back in the early 2000s, only about one out of every three people played video games. Also back then, the industry was stagnant and in key markets like Europe and Japan, software sales were actually in decline.”
“And you know, clearly the company thought deeply about this. And to be clear, the thinking happened before I joined the company. The company saw the stagnation of the industry as a result of too much complexity, too many sequels. [They saw] the same general game, but now it's version five or six, the lack of innovation and the lack of fun."
“That was their diagnosis. Competing companies saw the answer in more horsepower and more accurate visual representation. And you can clearly see the divergence in the Nintendo DS, for example, versus the PlayStation Portable. You can see divergence and strategy in the Wii, versus what Sony and Microsoft executed in their machines. And so absolutely, intellectual curiosity, asking tough questions to get at the heart of a business problem and proposing solutions that are based on what the issues are versus what your belief set is, is clearly something that the company has done well.”
It's hard to argue that the Wii didn't stir things up and bring gaming to a whole new audience with its approachable image and accessibility, although it should probably be noted that PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 also performed well that generation, too. In terms of Nintendo, though, the Wii turned around the company's fortunes after two under-performing consoles by removing barriers to entry and tapping an entirely different market to the one Sony and Microsoft were (and arguably still are) fighting over.
Elsewhere in the interview Reggie highlighted how the language barrier between Nintendo of Japan and Nintendo of America meant that non-verbal communication became centrally important:
“The typical process when working with our parent company was sequential translation. So a person speaks in Japanese with animation and smiles and hand gestures that then gets translated to English with none of that. I respond in English with hand gestures and emotion, and then that gets translated with none of it back into Japanese. And so you really have to be a master in picking up nonverbal cues and how that supports the key communication that needs to be done.”
Although retired, Reggie is currently outlining his seven business principles in a drive to educate and foster young business talent. The interview covers a lot of ground, including how he asked to speak directly with then-President Satoru Iwata before taking the NOA job - be sure to check out the full article over at GameDaily.biz.
It's hard to argue with Nintendo's pre-Wii diagnosis of the industry, although have we really moved away from "too much complexity, too many sequels"? Nintendo is more resistant than most companies when it comes to numbered sequels, but we still see plenty of them. Let us know your thoughts below.
[source gamedaily.biz]
Comments 96
And proof positive. The Wii was the most successful console of that generation, selling 100M. More than the 360 and PS3 combined. And after the failure of the Wii U, Nintendo is turning things around with the Switch and carving their own unique audience. And once again, it has proven successful since the Switch has been the fastest selling system of this gen. Graphics don't mean everything and the only thing that sets PS and Xbox apart are their exclusives nowadays. Hope to see more good things for the future!
@JR150 both the 360 and Ps3 ended up in the high 80 millions so the wii definitely didn't outsell them combined.
While I agree to some extent, honestly Nintendo is the king of "too many sequels" imo.
@redd214
Oof. My bad.But my point was that the Wii proved itself to be able to stand out and outperform the competitors.
And yes that's true but they're sequels to great franchises that a lot of people know. Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Splatoon. Their sequels are usually of high quality and improve upon or at least match the original. What Reggie was saying was that everything was just the same back then.
"too many sequels"... So that's why he hates Mother 3...
@HobbitGamer No, it's the reason Pikmin 4 was cancelled.
Eh, is that really true though? Nintendo had a bunch of new series during the GameCube. And a ton of new stuff was coming out on PS2 and Xbox.
During that era we saw a ton of new ideas and franchises. Halo, Grand Theft Auto 3, Devil May Cry, fully 3d RPGs like FFX and Xenosaga, etc. The real truth as to why Nintendo lost that gen was because the market matured and Nintendo did not.
Love Reggie, but going to have to hard disagree on this one. Before the Wii, came the Ps2, which is still the best selling system of all time.
@Octane Nah, Pikmin 4 was cancelled because of "too much complexity". You're too simple for Pikmin, yo.
So Pokémon.
Nintendolife. I don’t care if I only typed two words.
"Too much complexity, too may sequels"
Sounds a lot like today's video game industry.
@JR150 pokemon is a yearly release and most games are too similar
@HobbitGamer hey pikmin was pikmin 4 change my mind
@JR150 splatoon 2 was a low quality sequel too
@HammerKirby who's your pfp? Just wondering for research
@Trajan I think it would be more accurate to say everyone was just copying whatever was popular at the time. GTA hit it big and everything became open-world (whether it made sense or not), Halo crashed in and everything became FPS. I also I think was a swipe at the EA's and Activision's that churn out sequel yearly with little or no innovation (roster updates, different game/same corridor structure).
Most media industries have been copycats. Nintendo at least when doing a sequel attempts to rethink gameplay (touch control Zelda, Star Fox Zero's motion aiming, Countless Mario variants, etc.). Pokemon is probably the stalest of their franchises, and even it has non-main game variants. Even their failures generally fail because the gameplay change just didn't land with the audience.
@PickledKong64 Lyn from Fe7. Here's the sauce https://twitter.com/OrmilleF/status/1061735027099107328?s=09
New super Mario Bros.
New super Mario bros. Wii
New super Mario Bros 2
New super Mario Bros u
New super Luigi u
New super Mario Bros. U deluxe
Wii was a phenomenal success and hit the industry at just the right time.
It is very much similar with the Switch. The problem with the Wii was that Nintendo too their eye off the ball. Underpowered and woefully marketed.
But with Switch, Nintendo now have a hybrid that can do well for decades. Nintendo are always innovative but with the Switch they have now hit a sweet spot.
To move away from that with a totally different console in the future would be commercial suicide.
@PickledKong64 "hey pikmin was pikmin 4 change my mind"
What does that even mean?
@Trajan Halo wasn't new. It was just Tribes for OSX, and then MS bought out Bungie and made it a console game for bros.
@JR150 the ps3 did sell over 86 million and the Xbox was around 85 million so the maths doesn’t add up
@StevenG Say what you want but Halo revolutionized the genre. Only played the first two, but they're great games. Still play them regularly.
@HobbitGamer I dont remember all of it but Miyamoto said a few years back that they were working on another pikmin game. He said this in like 2015 or 2014 I dont remember, but people believe that hey pikmin was not this game and a pikmin 4 is being developed for switch. I think that that game was hey pikmin
@HammerKirby thank you
@StevenG have you ever played halo? Just wondering cuz you sound like you are just trying to start a console wars. So uncivilized
@redd214 COD says hi
@Entrr_username hi back
@redd214 Wait, they hit 80 million? Well shoot, the future hardware would have sold closer to as much were it not for smartphones.
@KingBowser86 yup 87 for the ps3 and 84 for the 360 is what I found.
@Trajan It's fine if your a bro, but halo was just tribes for bros. Go play tribes and see.
Mario kart 8 (deluxe) Mario party how much? Lol
@PickledKong64 Yeah, it was a big bro game when I was in college. It was/is Tribes for bros.
No war, just facts. It wasn't new and it wasn't original. It wasn't even supposed to be a console game.
@redd214
Well, let’s not forget the 360’s massive hardware failure issues. That likely added to their total. I loved my 360, all 8 of them! 😂😑
@Kang81 ouch, yeah that did slip my mind! I'm on my 8th ps4 but that's by choice not failures. Can't imagine how frustrating that must've been for you.
@redd214
Luckily I always bought the $50 replacement warranties. So it still cost me each time, but if I had to pay full price I never would have done so. I never bothered with sending it in to Microsoft either, I didn’t want a refurbished console I paid full price for, I wanted a new replacement.
I finally ended at the CoD MW edition. I should boot it up some day soon as it hasn’t been used since I bought my PS4 at launch. Hopefully it doesn’t catch fire and burn down my house! 😂
Wow, 8 PS4’s, hopefully they all work. Now DualShock 4, ugh, that thing is getting close to my 360 replacement record. I love the controller, but it’s obviously been poorly built.
@JR150 I don't care if they sold 500 million units. If it all goes to retirement homes and bingo halls that isn't my demograph. Quite frankly I like the boring Nintendo which makes sequels to my childhood franchises with different takes. But if everyone wanted waggle waggle then 1-2 switch would have been a hit, arms with motion controls would have been a hit, xbox would have done well with their Kinect and PlayStation would still be using their wand thing. PlayStation abandoned the ship. So did Microsoft. And the best selling Nintendo games aren't labo, 1-2 switch, but rather another Zelda and another Mario.
@La-weejee
I admitted I was wrong. XD
@Kang81 that's more a function of just getting a new one almost every year that's why. For example holiday bundle is $200, gamestop is giving $150 credit for a ps4 slim + $50 bunus. So trade in a ps4 get a brand new one (new controller, new warranty etc) for free! Done that the last few years.
As far as the ds4, I really only had problems with the first 2 I got a launch, rest have been good and we've probably been thru a dozen on those by now lol
Well, Nintendo is just as guilty. And they have been selling full priced ports.
Luigi 3 is very good. But it’s not much different. Splatoon 2 was more of a part 1.5 than part 2.
@StevenG ill check it out, but of hardly call 12 year old me a "bro".
I still play Goldeneye and Perfect Dark too.
In fact in the past week I have played: Perfect Dark (N64), Goldeneye 007 (N64), Aero Guage (N64), Halo 2 (Xbox), Soulcalibur 6 (PS4), Persona 3 Portable (PSP), Modern Warfare (PS4), and Death Stranding (PS4).
That doesn’t make sense to me. I always thought that the prevalence of annual or nearly annual sequels only increased in the Wii/PS3/X360 generation. And it’s not as if Nintendo itself is shy about series with many sequels, though there do tend to be more significant variations between its entries (Pokémon aside).
Whilst I admit to filling in a few blanks in the release schedule with some GameCube games I had missed I have no regrets about owning the Wii over a PS3 or 360.
This old Penny Arcade always made me laugh (https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/06/16/lets-get-ready-to-rummmmbllllle) because when Sony and Microsoft tried to jump on the motion bandwagon Nintendo decided to go back and bring out a sequel to Sin and Punishment and reveal Skyward Sword and a small game called Monado: Dawn of the World (which morphed into game of the decade, Xenoblade Chronicles 1)
Classic Nintendo.
For the sake of balance in the intervening years I did buy a 360 and PS3. Move was too accurate and didn't forgive player indescrepency in the same way as motion+ which removed all the fun from the games. Kinect was actually a great piece of hardware for what it was and I always found the voice commands to be really useful.
@StevenG Halo did revolutionise shooters. Rebounding health, two weapon system, dual stock aiming, dedicated melee button.
Wether you like the games, whether uou like the mechanics, even if they weren't 100% new, Halo standardised and popularised these mechanics, and every shooter from that era wanted to emulate its gameplay in one form or another.
That's pretty revolutionary.
@redd214 wii sold 100 million
@Darkyoshi98 yes I know but thanks for letting me know again
The Wii was a big success. But Ninty has no room to talk about too many sequels. Lol
@redd214 nah, Nintendo always tried and tries something new with their games. The weakest sequels in terms of innovation they produced are Super Mario Sunshine and Twilight Princess.
The Wii certainly changed things, that generation was the healthiest, all competitors sold very well
@Hagemaru sequels. Innovation.
The industry is sequels and remakes/remasters now, all guilty of it.
Dare I say, PUBG is the most innovate game in the past few years, there's been similar games before, but that game really made a storm.
They invent Wii waggle bowling and you’d think they’d reinvented the whole industry. Nintendo sure does think they’re all that and a bag of chips
Personally I love when Ninty makes something crazy and original like the first Splatoon or Wii Sports or Labo VR. Even how they go to redesign their franchises like Mario so they evolve. But then I know some people get freaked out when you stray too far from the garden path. There is a percentage of the gaming public that just want that next cookie cutter COD/Lego/Assassin’s Creed/Just Dance/Pokemon instalment because they feel comfortable/safe playing it.
If they’re happy playing (and paying) for it, who’s to say that’s wrong?
Nothing wrong with sequels unless they come to often and all start feeling the same. Often with Nintendo's sequels they are far enough apart and different enough to be a new experience. Looking at the Zelda series is a good example of this. One can argue though that the new super Mario Bros series however had been getting stagnant. If Nintendo makes a new 2D Mario game I hope it is something more original.
Sounds more like today than back then, honestly.
I thought Generation 6 of consoles was one of the most unique Generations, even if we limited the look at Nintendo and the Gamecube alone.
Sequels from games of the prior generation, like Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker, changed enough to be barely considered sequels.
If they didn't reinvent the wheel then they only got a single title on the Gamecube, like Fire Emblem, F-Zero X, or Super Smash Bros Melee.
Then you had games like Metroid Prime and Luigi's Mansion, which were from older franchises yet experimented with new genres and gameplay elements.
Then there were new IPs like Pikmin, not to mention third-party titles like Super Monkey Ball, Baten Kaitos, and Viewtiful Joe.
And that's just limiting that console generation just the Gamecube. Sega, Sony, and Microsoft all both created amazing new IPs as well as new takes on older franchises for their consoles as well.
I think Regie's statement makes sense with Mario Party though. That had four titles on the Gamecube. Way too much.
While you can point out that every Mario game is technically a sequel, I don't think that's probably what he meant, but more too many barely-differentiated FPS games and the like.
@HammerKirby lots of the ps2 lasers would go bad and people would but new ones.
Nintendo had always (more or less) moved against the current of endless sequels. The Wii didn't change that.
@Trajan
Totally agree with your first comment. I love my switch but I'm starting to think that they will never improve the online services. It's sucks because some of their best games are multiplayer.
I'd got tired of the ps2 by 2006 and sold it, so I'd agree that the mid-2000s were losing interest for me as a gamer. On the other hand, the start of that generation gave me some amazing experiences. GTA3, Vice City, Final Fantasy X, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid 2... Good Times. Not all doom and gloom for Nintendo's rivals.
@RadioHedgeFund I love Xenoblade, but I would hardly call it game of the decade.
Xenosaga was a better trilogy than Xenoblade even.
One problem I had with the Wii was too much simplicity in some major cases. Metroid Prime 3 lost certain features from the previous games due to lack of buttons. Metal Slug Anthology had the grenades with forced waggle because, as I've heard, Nintendo did not allow developers to use the Classic Controller in normal releases at that time. I know where he's coming from and I've complained about needless complexity in some cases, but in those two, I prefer the complexity that came before.
@JR150 I like the Xbox one avatar, Blu-ray, limited backwards compatibility (woot rumble roses xx) and web browser. Wireless Controllers aren't $80 neither, and no switch tax for more expensive games with weaker ports like overwatch due to a weaker system; bloodstained port slowdown on switch was embarrassing. Black Friday was a win for me, though I admit song has better backwards compatibility. I had no idea I could differentiate the xbone shooters honestly. Just hate wasting time installing bad games lol but the Xbox 360 4 gig can't even install one fame so it could be worse; almost suckered into it.
Fils-Aime is half right; same as it always was with day one dlc nowadays. PlayStation portable had annoying load times though I admit It had some fun. 3ds did blow the Vita out the water I admit; Vita was too damn expensive and no real reason to upgrade from psp. Not gonna pay for a system for some stupid crossplay with something I already have, or some controller.
I do feel the switch is better as a party system lol 8 player smash or party golf is insane. Ready yeah celebration alone sold me on super Mario party. Nintendo had a terrible black Friday for the system compared to stuff being $100 off though sales were good, even the 3ds had a ton.
Just wish I could use gold points for pennies on 3ds as switch, and platinum for switch sales. Do feel the Xbox bonuses to get sales is bs.
There's good and bad to be found in all apparently.
"too many sequels" coming from the company who keeps pumping out a new mario game every year.
I emphasize with Reggies view of sequels since most Nintendo franchises enjoy one per console generation versus a cluster to keep shareholders and hardcore happy.
The Wii/DS era was eye opening for me as I found myself loving the quirky aesthetics of each consoles while listening to the consist drone of people crying about graphics. I will never forget Hirai’s ghetto comment about portables then watching the DS garner massive sales from children and adults alike.
@1UP_MARIO Hey at least 3 of those are rock solid though.
@Edu23XWiiU twilight princess being the weakest sequel.....(cough)bs(cough).
@MrVariant
Eh that's fair I guess. But just know that the PS5 and Scarlet will be "taxed" when they come out due to being newer systems if they get older ports too. And as someone who only owns a Switch, Overwatch is super fun and runs just fine for me. I don't mind ports so long as they run in some capacity. If you have it on another system, then play it there. But ports happen for a reason. Not everyone owns everything.
The comment above is nice.
@RiasGremory ha, I love Twilight Princess, I own it in all three consoles it showed up, but in terms of innovation, it didn’t offer anything new to the franchise.
@Richnj That's dumbing down, not revolutionizing.
Regen health is the bane of shooters. They made an FPS for Bros.
@Trajan No that would be a little kid, not the target market at that time. I just played goldeneye yesterday. The N64 sits next to the switch.
@Trajan You mean dumbed FPSes down. I get it you were a little kid and have nostalgia for it. However they really hurt gaming overall.
They expanded the market at a cost of the quality.
@redd214
Ah, I used to do that with my iPhone every other year. Trading it in would get me the updated model for free from Best Buy.
I never thought of doing that with a game console. Had I known that I’d have a PS4 pro by now instead of my launch PS4. 😁
Oh well, I’ll just hold out a while longer for the PS5.
@StevenG what are you talking about?
And how did halo dumb them down? The AI was the best we had seen up until that point. You don't lkke the game, cool. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it.
Well wii was a huge hit back then it kinda still is
@Trajan Regen health is dumbing down. That's just the first example.
I actually like the game fine, the first one anyway. It just wasn't special and it really did damage gaming.
@StevenG The shields regen, health did not. That didn't dumb down gaming. I also dont consider difficulty level as having any impact on dumbing gaming down. You could play on Legendary.
The shields makes sense for the game. It's as opposed to being a bullet sponge in Goldeneye/PD. Really only Rainbow Six and Counter Strike had small TTK.
This is coming from someone who prefers liscense to kill/one shot kill in multiplayer. And I play MW on hardcore exclusively.
@Trajan Sure it did, now you just go hide a little bit. It wasn't about difficulty it was about tactics. In making the game approachable for the console crowd and especially xbox bros, they dumbed it down.
The original Ghost Recon had it right. Similar to Rainbox Six, CS is totally a bullet sponge.
@StevenG That just means you have different tastes. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Halo. You sound like you never played it on Legendary.
Original Ghost Recon was really good.
@1UP_MARIO Games that were released in a span of 13 years. Try harder.
@Trajan The difficulty isn't the issue, so increasing it doesn't help.
It's a game not targeted at me, which is fine. The problem is that its dumbing down of FPS in general.
@StevenG I think you misunderstand the meaning of revolutionary.
"a sudden, radical, or complete change"
Let's pretend I agree with you on Halo being "tribes for bros" that was super dumbed down, it still changed the landscape of shooters for years. You haven't actually been countering the argument at all.
It's a revolutionary, hallmark shooter and Halo CE, 2 and 3, will continue to get credit for their impact.
@Richnj It wasn't though. It was a gradual thing.
You are crediting a game that was derivative not innovative. The other games then slowly took up features from this. That's not a revolution at all.
@StevenG You still haven't made an argument for how the game was dumbed down as well as not revolutionary.
@Dog you mean 6 years and none of them were sequels just the same but worse and the original still has the best bosses.
Try harder. I don’t think I have to. Know your facts first
@StevenG https://www.gamesradar.com/uk/halo-impact-gaming/
Can I just point out that you are also making two contradictory claims;
1) Halo didn't change gaming, and that the features and mechanics it used were also being used pre and post Halo.
2) That Halo's features and mechanics have dumbed down FPS games.
Which is it? Did Halo inspire these things or not?, either Halo is responsible for these things or it's not, it can't be both. Because it seems like you are changing your stance on thIS depending on which is more helpful to your agenda.
@sdelfin "as I've heard, Nintendo did not allow developers to use the Classic Controller in normal releases at that time."
Elaborate please. I was under the impression that Nintendo made the Classic Controller specifically for those types of games.
@Richnj Can I point out your inability to read?
1) The change was slow and it popularized these bad features.
2) see 1.
Halo was inspired by other games and then those changes damaged FPS gaming as a whole.
@Trajan Yes I have.
It was iterative and derivative not revolutionary. The regen of shields, the controls depending heavily on auto-aim, the drive toward multiplayer as a replacement for more expensive longer campaigns.
That it then popularized already existing misfeatures doesn't make it revolutionary.
These were all things already going on in gaming that Halo proved gamers would accept. Just like DLC/IAP has damaged gaming.
I get it, you guys were little kids when it came out. That made it new and exciting to you, not everyone is that young.
@StevenG For the record. I wasn't a child when Halo released, and I certainly wasn't a child when I first started playing the games. You're assuming this to better fit your own perception that you're this older and thus, wiser, gamer.
And no, it's not my reading ability, even in that one post you contradict yourself. You're saying Halo popularised the mechanics and features but that it also had zero affect on the gaming landscape. It's an absurd corner to argue yourself in to.
@StevenG what are youtalking about? The campaign in Halo was bigger than any FPS before it.
Auto aim exists in varying degrees because of imprecise controls. Both Goldeneye and PD have more auto aim.
@Hungryluma As I recall, in the early days, Nintendo restricted Classic Controller to Virtual Console only. Metal Slug Anthology certainly could have used an option for Classic Controller, as none of the game's control schemes are quite right. That led to the need for motion control for tossing grenades which was a bad fit for an arcade game. The Virtual Console versions of the Metal Slug games are more playable as a result. It's possible it wasn't a policy, but Nintendo failing to provide developers of early games with the needed development tools to include the controller support, but that wouldn't make Nintendo look good either since those controllers were necessary for certain things and were being shown before the console's release.
@Trajan Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were not really the same kind of FPS. The Halo campaign is much shorter than PC FPS.
Like I said it was an evolutionary step in making FPS worse.
@Richnj No, because one person already said they were 12 when it came out.
No, I said it was iterative. That it popularized but did not redefine. Seriously, learn to read.
@StevenG You keep telling me to learn to read, but my first post mentioned that Halo popularised these mechanics and features, and you've echoed that twice now, despite originally trying to dispute my claim.
You also said "I get it, you guys were little kids" right after responding to my points.
Maybe, learn to write?
Regardless, you seem to want Halo to both be an insignificant entry or step, but also the one that kicked off the downfall of FPS games. And you are the only person that seems to have this view of gaming history.
@sdelfin Bizarre considering Nintendo stated that the Classic Controller was made for multiplats, as well as older titles. They even showed a demo reel before the Wii released of a varient of the classic controller being used in Wii Sports. I wonder why they rolled back support so drastically over such a short timespan?
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