Nintendo Outlines Pricing and Details for DLC in Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia

Nope and nope!

Honestly I am okay with this. It gives me more of what I love. Sure it is pricey but that is my choice and I say more Fire Emblem please

EDIT: Also, can I point out that this is a complete game to begin with? And that it is a NES game which were usually short. Given that, I could easily see Nintendo bulking up the complete game and the DLC to make it feel like the biggest Fire Emblem yet

DLC is the reason I still play SNES games

I'm not surprised given how much DLC the last 2 games had as well as Mario Kart, Zelda and more. Nintendo have gone whole hog by the looks of it.

I'll be buying it. Love me some Fire Emblem.

Have the LE version preordered, but NO WAY in heck am I buying this overpriced DLC that should have been in the game in the first place. BS Nintendo, BS.

No thanks. I'm not quite well off enough to spend $85 on one 3DS game. I like the Fire Emblem 3DS games, but I never have gotten into the DLC all too much anyway. Still excited for this game, but I won't be doing a $45 season pass with a $25 (or something around that) pack of amiibos with a $40 game.

Day 1 DLC that costs more than the game itself. Yeah, you lost me on this one Nintendo. Hopefully Fire Emblem Switch is more reasonable.

Isn't this charging a lot more for this than for the awakening/fates dlc? I'm sure those were no more than £5/6 per pack

I love Fire Emblem, but it is the kind of game that really is not a good fit for DLC.

DLC is actually putting me off buying a lot of games nowadays. Sure, most of it's fluff, but some of it should have been included in the original game. If I buy Shadows of Valentia, for instance, and no DLC, will there be anywhere I can grind EXP? It may not have been in the NES original, but it should be standard in a remake.

@Whopper744 or just go to bestbuy where the game is $31, the amiibos are $16, and getting the season pass cheap isn't gonna be too hard

After Fire Emblem Awakening, it seems that Nintendo is really on the DLC marathon here with future Fire Emblem games. I hope they don't take the DLC hype train too much with the series otherwise that feature will be the demise of the series. Fire Emblem Awakening saves the series from dying due to it hanging on a thread with DLCs feature as optional rewarding contents so player could have the option to enjoy, turning that into a cash cow on future games will not excite most people as more and more DLC are getting in the way of the actual main game or are part of the main game. Something gamers does not want in their game.

You're never retiring your 3DS @JaxonH or your BB GCU

If this werent nintendo i think id be okay with that. Waiting would solve the problem. But so far gotys or complete editions arent a thing for them. Hope it will get common this generation.

@retro_player_22 There's a hype train for paid Fire Emblem DLC?

the EU press release already has information on the 5th pack:

DLC Pack #5 – Cipher Companions Pack (Release date to be revealed at a later date, £4.49 / €4.99, two pieces of content): New heroes from Fire Emblem Cipher, the popular Japanese trading card game, will become available for recruitment in Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia. More information about this final DLC pack will be revealed in the future.

I got the season pass for Fates last year, and really enjoyed the extra content; I'll definitely be picking this up, but I might have to wait for a discount/bargain price if the UK pricing is not a little more reasonable than the US one.

@Jezebel95 the UK/EU price is even worse. 40 pound/45 EUR

3 and 4 are very interesting. I'll buy because I'm a sucker for FE, but Nintendo should be careful with this kind of price.

Really hoping this game continues what Fates allowed us to do and have the main character marry a same-sex partner!

Fleeced.

@russellohh I've never seen them for that cheap. Though I did just remember my Prime discount will probably bring it to that. I still have no plans for that DLC. i just don't think I'd get 45 more dollars of play out of it. I'm usually content with the main game stuff. Only did some of the side levels in Awakening and Fates, though I beat the main game of Awakening twice, and all three versions of Fates (only one time there).

@Whopper744 bestbuy has lucina for $10, and i picked up the valencia ones for $18 for both of em.

As for the DLC, remember that Amazon Prime Super Saving Digital codes apply on eShop credits- i got maybe 60$ worth last year.

I just picked up a digital switch game for half off, and next i'll be saving up for the season pass half off i hope.

@russellohh How would it be possible to get the season pass cheap....? Knowing Best Buy and Nintendo, and the fact that a Season Pass is digital-only, I can't fathom getting it for more than 30% off, and that'd probably be years from now, if ever. That's still $31.49, which is hardly "cheap" and still costs more than the game, even at a discounted price.

@manu0 Will definitely be waiting to find it cheaper, then. Amazon or ShopTo usually go £5-10 below RRP quite soon after release, so I'll keep an eye out for a discount. Still, that's surprisingly pricey - I don't remember the DLC passes for Fates costing so much, and they had a lot of content.

Edit: Last year's DLC packs for Fates were £23/$26 in total for 18 maps; how can the 22 maps and dungeons for Echoes cost almost double that? I'm usually all for DLC in these games, but this price seems a bit of an exaggeration...

@russellohh Didn't know that about the Super Saving Digital code thing. Thanks.

@MetalKingShield
The map is like the map from SS, you can find enemies in maps you've already beaten if you want to grind experience... But at the same time, I disagree with the notion that grinding should be standard in FE by now. With a good strategy you can beat all maps, unless you're planning on breaking the game or playing on Lunatic+, grinding isn't necessary.

Anyway, all this DLC sucks. I won't get the season pass, maybe I'll get pack 4 which is story DLC, or I'll watch it in YouTube. Haven't decided yet. IS is ruining FE with all this DLC milking!

Little to pricey for my liking. Especially since I'm expecting a decent price boost for being in Canada. So maybe just the back story if any of it.

@rjejr
Maybe not, but its gonna have to live on from the dugout.

1. What a surprise, NA-only, but Nlife's article title makes no mention of it, as usual.
2. Nintendo really is embracing the most scumbag forms of DLC, aren't they; on this occasion, launch-day DLC.

Remember the early days of Nintendo DLC? £12 for four new cups on Mario Kart 8 (a.k.a 50% more tracks)? I miss those days

All this DLC Fire Emblem has received in the past few entries has really been kind of overwhelming to be perfectly honest... it's a little TOO much, IMO.

@manu0 EDIT: Never mind, got it. Nlife should update this page.

@Whopper744 when you have Prime and choose 3-5 Super Saver Shipping, you get $1 off your next digital order. That's easy, that's on the bottom of every order when you pick shipping speed. The idea is rather than Amazon two-day shipping you a pencil one day and soap another day, they hold everything a couple days, then do it all at once. If you order ten things in one order, you pick super saver and get $1 off.

If you order all 10 items within 3 days of each other, even within seconds of each other, you get $1 back for each item- $10 total.

If you have a house of 4 people and get random $4 kitchen tools and video games and prepaid cards and socks and cereal off Amazon...

well then.

$22 in assorted credits right now. Do an amazon search for "eshop" or "eshop credit" and the top hit is a digital code.

@RainbowGazelle seems like you're pretty bad at searching as it could not possibly be in a more obvious place LOL:
http://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2017/May/Expand-your-adventure-with-new-downloadable-content-for-Fire-Emblem-Echoes-Shadows-of-Valentia-from-19th-May-1220202.html

@russellohh man prime in the US is so much better than in Europe. All we get with prime is 2 EUR off new games. that's it. it's a disgrace.

No thanks!!! That's going to cost around AU$70 here!!! That's absolutely ridiculous! And I have no doubt in my mind that this DLC will not include more than an entire game's worth of content! Fates had the Revelations DLC pack and that was essentially a full game's worth of content for AU$26 (not defending its existence, but still…). This is so stupid and disheartening. Plus, there's the AU$36 worth of amiibo that will add to the cost of the AU$100 limited edition.

Why couldn't they have taken a similar route as they did with Fates and sell us a more expensive edition with the DLC on the cartridge?

I get that Heroes is plagued by scummy microtransactions, but is there no respite for us who prefer to pay upfront for a full experience? I really, really hate this. I've bought the Awakening and Fates DLC up front, but I won't be supporting this until it inevitably drops in price about a year from now.

@sillygostly fates still had extra DLC similar to this DLC that wasn't on the cartridge.

@manu0 oh balls! i got ... ....errr...23 euro off of mario kart and Zelda total, and then 3 euro off of an eshop game.

Good to see Nintendo is learning from EA and Ubisoft. Guess I won't be getting the game then.

i'm getting the game but no way am I getting the season pass....i barely bought DLC in awakening or any other Nintendo for that matter. Not going to start now

@manu0 Blame Google for continually taking me to American sites. But, hey, thanks.

Wow Nintendo really found a fan base to fleece, dangg. I literally read this with my GBA in hand. Oh the good ol days when you didn't have to fear what the complete game would cost in the end. Ham fisted for a handheld game, I'd say

Even Kirby has quasi-DLC now. We saw this day coming back in 2012/13, when Nintendo's DLC practices would cease to be like a kind old granny gust baking you a few extra cookies, like Iwata suggested

Looks like I'll be forking over that money for the DLC. I'm a big fan. So the more fire emblem the better. I forked over $80 dollars last time. I don't remember was it $90 . I guess they can have money.

@manu0 : I know, and that was a dog move on their part as well (I've bought all of the DLC for Awakening and Fates). The Fates Limited Edition cost me AU$130. The least they could have done was include the extra DLC as well (the extra maps are largely insubstantial anyway). I could care less for the useless trinkets that they include with all of these "collector's" editions. I just want the entirety of the game on cartridge/disc.

This does not bode well for Fire Emblem Switch...

I think that this is the first time I've seen a game where teh DLC is pricier than the game itself.

Besides that, DLC usually adds a lot to a game. Nintendo's offering, besides some stupid assets in Smash Bros, has been very well stuffed. Look at Mario Kart 8: the DLC adds like 60% extra game for 15 bucks. Also, the other Fire Emblem DLC added a ton of quests and maps, but it was pricier.

This, I can't get behind unless it is something like 20 bucks or so for the whole DLC, even if it a lot.

"And one thing Nintendo has determined as a company policy, what we are not going to do is create a full game and then say, ‘let's hold this back for DLC.' That's not our plan. We're definitely not doing that. It's an extreme example, but I think there are examples of games where you get that initial purchase — the very core part of the game — and everything else around it is all DLC. However, if you do that I believe customers will have no motivation to go out and buy the retail package to begin with."

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/08/iwata_nintendo_wont_deceive_with_dlc

Nintendo finally getting with the modern times of gaming.

@retro_player_22 Awakening needed to sell 250,000 units to "save the series". The previous game, New Mystery of the Emblem, sold 247,000 units and every internationally released game sold at least twice that much.
People need to quit overstating it.

@Yrreiht The game is fine. The DLC is stupidly overpriced, is all.

@MetalKingShield It was in the NES original; Gaiden set the template Awakening took after.
Though while we're at it, most games in the series don't allow you to grind-- they expect you to strategize.

Anyways, I said this in the forum thread and on SF, but this is bull.
I dislike grinding DLC by its very nature, but besides that Awakening's DLC was alright due to it just being fanservice and a few extra challenges. Fates' Hidden Truths is a big sticking point, but that criticism extends to the game's writing at large.

This has no excuse. Fates' DLC sold worse than Awakening's, so IS is content to just nickel and dime people.
It's $2 for a class. Just a class. No map, nothing else.
The prologue maps reuse maps from the main game instead of being anything new. (In addition, NME remade BSFE-- which basically served as prologue maps giving insight into certain groups of characters).

It's very disappointing that IS couldn't bring themselves to fix more of Gaiden's issues or at least provide a bigger package and are instead focusing on milking completionists and grind fanatics.

EDIT:
@NinChocolate We haven't seen any in-house Nintendo developers do this. IS is second part and retains some individuality.

@Yorumi Not this"Nintendo has overturned every statement" nonsense again.

@Nintendo:

Not sure why every gets so angry about DLC. Easy enough to not buy, and it's not like the game will suffer without it; you're still getting a complete game with your original purchase.

I have a feeling I'll be buying this. The DLC was overkill in Fates, which was already three games combined into one. By the time I got to Revelations I was so tired of the game that I completely skipped the DLC and the paralogues despite the bonuses therein. Here, I have a feeling the DLC will be more fresh and useful.

@NinChocolate @Yorumi And most of this crap got far worse as soon as Kimishima took over

how much

After what happened with Fates where western audiences didn't even get the rest of the DLC there's no nibelsnarfing way I'll buy any of it for this game.

I'm getting the DLC 4, since I want more story. I dunno why people complain so much. DLC is NOT A MUST. They can sell whatever they want, in however way they want, for whatever price they want. YOU don't have to buy it. I already pro-ordered the LE and I'm ok with paying a bit more for more story that is a nice companion piece to an already full game.

Hmm, I got Fates but haven't played it yet. Ought to do that before even thinking of getting Echoes, let alone the DLC.

I think we must be on the verge of getting a price hike in gaming in general. Production is becoming increasingly expensive for AAAs, so they recoup using DLC, season passes, online subscription etc. I've seen a few commentators say that dev costs are unsustainable under the current model.

Personally, that will feel like a hard sell in most cases. Time to think a bit more carefully before picking up titles. Perhaps that's why Nindies are so appealing.

@Elpizo Because weebs were constantly harassing NOA on twitter about it. Can't really blame them if a bunch of people are cursing their name and sending death threats.

I'll be passing on the season pass. . .but then I've never purchased DLC for any of the FE games. The core game has always been enough for me.

I'd only be mad if Nintendo ever forced me to buy the DLC just to "complete the main game" — The DLC is optional, and no one is putting a gun to your head. You want more after the main game, you pay for it — it's your choice, so choose wisely.

My plan will be as follows for FEE: SoV --

1) Beat main game (ALWAYS my prime objective)
2) See if I want more, and if so, I'll review the DLC options again and purchase what fits my desire and wallet

If I don't want any more after the main game, then I'll move on. Don't make this hard on yourselves

You know, I look back to the days when games were complete when you bought them, and a lot of the stuff you see as DLC were "secrets" or "unlockables" ... maybe there would be a new version of a game released if it sold well (like Street Fighter 2 on SNES).

To me most of this DLC is very optional or secondary to the main game. It doesn't bother me that much. It also doesn't bother me when an indie studio is selling their game in pieces because their budgets aren't huge. It's when big companies take stuff out of games that used to just be there (like the Cave of Trials or Hard Mode in BOTW) that it really starts to bother me.

Probably skip the DLC. Unless I get it free in the uber special edition.

@BinaryFragger EA's Star Wars battlefront had even more DLC and that sold over 14 million. FIFA has infinite microtransactions in a full price game through ultimate team and they get away with it every single year. Hell EA sold a $200/£170 Mass Effect Andromeda Collectors Edition that didn't even come with the game this year

They ALL do DLC, they ALL get away with it. I also remember distinctly Nintendo's lack of DLC until 2012 was considered "behind the times"

Comparing the Zelda season pass to this is tone deaf for a couple reasons;

-It's less than half the price.
-This is a 3DS game that looks like a SNES game most of the time.
-The value of this content is nowhere near that of a new 3D Zelda dungeon, even if it's just another lame divine beast.

Too bad Nintendo has ruined this studio for me with all these Fire Emblem games and their price gouging for both those and the half-baked 'Paper Mario' games. It would have been nice to play another Paper Mario game with effort put into the writing, even if they had charged $80 up front.

Dial it back a bit Nintendo/IS. That's a bit too much there.

Only game where I'm willing to pay more for DLC than the base game is Smash Bros

@Nik-Davies Yes that and the Super Luigi U Literally doubled the number of levels for an extra $20

Can I please state that I highly dislike this "Season Pass" terminology? It's not just on a Nintendo systems-- it's every system. I wish nintendo went with something different for this naming convention. I have such a negative connotation with the phrase "season pass". It reminds me of Call of Duty or something of lesser-quality.
Season Pass: What are we skiing? We going snowboarding? Are we....like.... only playing the game over a season? It's just weird to me.

@SanderEvers No, I shouldn't!

@JaxonH "its gonna have to live on from the dugout"

Well hopefully your Switch holds out better than the Mets the past few years, we're a walking ER.

This season pass is a PASS for me. 😎

Welp, glad I didn't dive in head first and bought the LE. I wouldn't have been able to afford the DLC this year then xD no money set aside for it, thought it'd just be a few maps, but i guess they want to take our money in return for a ton more content... Which I am fine with. I'll just buy a limited edition later on when I win the lottery or something (wishful thinking)

I haven't played the 3DS Fire Emblem games yet, but I don't understand why Nintendo goes so overboard with DLC for them. I don't mind a bit of DLC like in MK8 but it seems ridiculous to have this much extra stuff if you have to pay more than the original price of the game for it.

"This is optional why are you guys complaining xD?"

Surprise, people don't like scummy business practices. And a season pass that costs more than the game itself releasing at launch day IS scummy no matter how you look at it.

I don't care enough for nu-FE anyway so I'll gladly give this DLC a pass.

I'll pay full price for the main game. But for these DLC packs? No thanks, I'll get them through "black bag" instead.

@Jessica286 Oh my God, you're just as bad as NL staff with article subtitles...

Wow, that's a bit steep.

@Alto It works with games like The Walking Dead series, since that's sort of like an interactive show, which sort of operates like TV seasons. The terminology doesn't really work here. This is really more of a "DLC Pass." But that sounds dirtier. So they went with what's popular.

I wrote it on another occasion recently, but I simply don't care about dlc when I buy a game.
When I think the dlc is worth it then I'll buy it, if it's not then I won't buy it. If they sell a new ingame weapon for 100$, well then I won't buy it.

I am not sure what all this about "bad business practices" is either, if I can just ignore it. The only bad business practice I can think of are hidden costs, that I have to pay for some reason.

In this case, I have no interest to buy it, so I won't. I am still interested in the game itself without the dlc, so I will buy it.
I don't get where all the drama is coming from, honestly. That is not only true for FE or Nintendo, but dlc in general.

@PlywoodStick haha wow DLC Pass does sound a tad dirty!

Well ya... I know I can't change it but I wish Nintendo went with something different for this terminology across all their games. Something innovative or different. Oh well!

@Kirgo It depends on the content. DLC Pack #1-3 here can be easily passed over without much fuss, they just exist to make the base game easier or extend the endgame. But Pack #4 is actual storyline, a significant piece of the game chopped out and sold for money. That should really be free when it's finished. Not sure about Pack #5 yet, details not yet released.

@NinChocolate Iwata's with the golden banana in the sky now, son. We have a banker in charge. They couldn't give their coveted evening dump about that ancient history.

@PlywoodStick I don't see that. FE Echoes is supposed to be a remake and dlc4 is about a new story that wasn't in the original.
If that is not additional content then what is? It is even one of the rare cases where it is obviously not chopped out.

Generally, I have issues with the "chopped out" argument.
First of all, it is always an assumption. We will never know whether this would be in the game without dlc or not. Sometimes you are right and it is "chopped out", sometimes you will obviously be wrong, simply because you can not know that. I don't see much reason to say it was "chopped out" on every single occasion.

Secondly, it doesn't really change anything I mentioned.
As long as I think the game is worth the money, I will buy it.
If they chop out so much that it is not worth the money anymore, then I won't buy it / wait until it is cheaper.
If it, in my opinion, is still worth the money, then why should I care?
"It could have been more for the same price" is always an argument with anything, even without dlc. You never really know if there is content they cut out to save money, whether they then sell it as dlc or not at all doesn't make the base game better or worse.

Seems a bit pricey but dlc is always optional so it's up to the consumer. I didn't by any for Awakening or Fates and felt they were packed enough in their standalone forms.

However, if they remade Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance for the Switch (together) and made some exclusive DLC for that, some which feature Greil during his time in Daein then I think I'd splurge for that!

Kinda pricey DLC, and content seems just ok (maybe on the new char classes), though I'm not an avid FE fan.

I think Blaster Master Zero did it right per DLC pricing and content.

That's a lot of dlc, but most of it seems very optional. It's too much dlc imo, but only packs 3 and 4 sound important. Locking classes and other important story chapters behind dlc is a dangerous concept.

@Nintendo_Ninja

Agreed, I'm not with the unlocking exclusive classes behind dlc. None vital back story chapters eh, maybe but the classes thing is kinda messed up.

Honestly we should see the quality of the game and the dlc before yelling at Nintendo or burn your money on the game and dlc on day one.

Bad pricing aside, I guess it can't be any worse than buying four random Amiibo for $52, that overall, don't offer jack **** for the money spent, I suppose. I'll pick it up.

Never thought I'd pay over $100 for a 3ds game...

@PlywoodStick HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! And here I was thinking I finally nail a pun. Damn!! 😂

@Grandpa_Pixel Except it isn't? Especially since a good chunk is coming mere weeks after the game itself and costs more than the game proper. Clearly they cut content out expressly to sell back to consumers.

If you are a completionist you now have to spend $115 all told with tax and that isn't including the extra $20 for the CE.

So, no different than the $50+ of DLC in Awakening and Fates.

@XCWarrior
overpriced DLC that should have been in the game in the first place

Soooo... given this is a Gaiden remake, are you saying this DLC is part of the original game and was taken out to be sold as extra? Cause I'm pretty sure this is above and beyond the full game.

It's fine to not buy DLC if you don't want, you can even express your opinion that it's overpriced. But to say it should have been included... that's a stretch

Ill only get ones that matter to the story, if i even like the story lol

@Priceless_Spork
This is for 3DS, y'know.... We don't have any info on Fire Emblem Switch, except it is in development.

@JaxonH That is a good point, though not entirely accurate as this isn't the same game and shares almost no assets of the original. So much work here is done and so much added it can't really be called the same game, and rightfully so as I doubt anybody would pay $40 for the original game with no changes. So really they made this while making this game and it was part and parcel of the package.

Clearly they just couldn't figure a way to make people buy two copies of the same game again (ala Fates), but still wanted that money.

Yeah this is just taking the piss, exploiting the die hard Fire Emblem fans. Ease up on the bonehead decisions Nintendo, even for just a fortnight!

People seem to keep forgetting that Fire emblem is made by IS. A second party (?) I doubt Nintendo had much to do with the DLC of this

@MailOrderNinja
That's... not true. They had just as much DLC in Awakening, years before any dual game was released with Fates. So this has nothing to do with not being able to charge people for 2 games. If they had 2 games worth of content (like they did with Fates) then they would charge for 2 games. This is one game, so they charge for one.

And the maps are actually the same as the original maps (which is why it's good they're bringing lots of DLC- cause the original maps weren't too exciting).

Looks like loads of fun

@PotatoTheG
Ya but thus doesn't seem "scummy" at all. The DLC was released in Japan months ago, so why artificially postpone it's release here if it's already ready? It's not the same as a big western game that has DLC day one on its global release day. This DLC was not developed before the game's release, because the game has been released for some time now.

And it's a little high, but how much is too much? Alot of games have $50-300 of DLC nowadays. Almost every major western release has at least $30-50 of DLC, and most Japanese games have $100+ of content, often on day one (see Tales games, Dead or Alive series, etc).

As far as I'm concerned, as long as it wasn't cut from the main game (And this clearly wasn't- it's a remake and no part from the original is missing) then it's fair game. $50, $100, $1,000... doesn't matter. If it's extra, it's extra.

@JaxonH I have nothing but respect for you over after seeing and responding to you on these threads, but I don't think I can agree. I feel this is a clear cash grab and I think the only reason anyone defends it is because it is Nintendo.

Honestly I'd rather just see these companies charge what they think a game is worth up front rather than do the nickel and dime approach with DLC.

@MailOrderNinja
Well I can assure you I don't defend it "because it's Nintendo", I defend it because I see zero evidence it was pulled from the main game, and I'm not big on baseless accusations. Simple as that.

And, as any one who plays Fire Emblem knows, this is nothing new. Awakening and Fates had just as much if not more DLC. Why the sudden outrage now?

It most certainly is a cashgrab. They're in the business of making money. But that doesn't mean it was pulled from the game, and it doesn't mean it doesn't have value. I'm gonna buy it, because the DLC in Awakening and Fates was some of the best maps I've ever played

@PotatoTheG Remakes get new content all the time, I'm yet to play a Pokémon remake that's charged me for the new content over & above the original. While you're correct that it's content that couldn't make it to the Japanese the launch, I still question the cost. It's definitely very pricey for what it is.

@JaxonH 45$ for a season pass is still too much.

"As far as I'm concerned, as long as it wasn't cut from the main game (And this clearly wasn't- it's a remake and no part from the original is missing) then it's fair game. $50, $100, $1,000... doesn't matter. If it's extra, it's extra."

That's not how it works.

@JaxonH I know its a remake, however, they already have the DLC notes all ready to go. Which means its done or basically done. If you made it already, include it.

You know what else wasn't in the original? 3D Visuals, but somehow we aren't getting charged for that. Or voice acting.

It's not a stretch to ask for ALL of the extra stuff they created, again especially if you are paying extra for the special editions.

Of course, with me, paid DLC has been, is, and always will be total BS. I bought your game, stop trying to nickel and dime me to death.

@XCWarrior
That's because they game has been out for some time in Japan. The DLC has all been made already. That's why they have the notes ready because the game released like half a year ago.

I wouldn't expect them to charge extra for 3D or voice acting because that is part of the new remade experience. The DLC is content above and beyond the new remade experience. They developed and released the DLC after the game released in Japan, and I don't see any justification in demanding that everything they do beyond the remake be included at no extra cost. Especially because the amount of extra content in total it's quite a bit. I also don't think that a special edition should automatically include the DLC- I think that the contents should be reflected in the price, and if all the DLC was included, it probably would've been another $40 higher.

Idk. I see a remake of a game that is a complete and full remake of a game. Anything extra they want to sell beyond that is cool. I mean, if people are going to rage against this, then they're going to have to rage against every single other game that has DLC. I understand discontent with microtransactions, particularly when the game is unbalanced to nudge you toward them, and I understand discontent with content cut from the game. But seeing as neither of those apply I just can't understand how someone could be angry with DLC that is above and beyond and was released after the game and is clearly not cut from the game, and is the exact same thing they did for Awakening, which no one seemed to mind.

@Yorumi
And that's perfectly fair. Idk if it's a full games worth or not. I think it may have close to full game's worth of maps, but at a slightly higher cost and without all the story and stuff. It's definitely not as good a value as the game itself. That goes for this, Zelda, and the majority of DLC. But I think the idea is, people usually buy piecemeal what they want, so it costs more pound for pound.

Idk, in the end, I agree it's not as good value as the game, but as long as it's a consumer choice then I have no problem with it at all. As long as it's not taken from the game, then they can propose whatever DLC they like, and it's up to each person to decide for themselves if it's worth it. I just don't like it when people tend to accuse every single DLC of being stripped out of the main game just because they take issue with it. People can say this costs a lot and that's fair, but there's no evidence to accuse it of being stripped out of the game- this is one of the rare instances we can actually look directly at the remake and compare with the source material.

@JaxonH Fair enough. I read your response to another person and I hadn't considered that the game has been out for months in Japan. Regardless I think the fact that it's all coming out within weeks and so much is being asked for it just doesn't look good.

What makes DLC like this so scuzzy is the fact that so many of their hardcore fans are completionists so the company knows they want all the content so they strong arm their most loyal consumers to get even more money from them. Before we've even paid for the actual game they already want more.

I will wait until I can use my nintendo coins for it. If not it will stay a pass.

I'm interested in Fledgling Warriors and Lost Altars. They should help me along in the game with extra stuff! Don't know where I'll find the money for the amiibo now, though.

I'm so tired of overpriced dlc. Yes there's a lot here, but omg its more than the cost of the game. I won't be supporting it, nothing against anyone who does. To each their own, but that price is = another game. Passing.

@Kirgo After experiencing how CDProjektRed handles DLC, I can't go back. All of their DLC, whether it be minor or major, is always free for everyone who has bought their games, ever. They only charge extra for full expansion packs, which is barely anything during sales. (It costs $15 less to buy Witcher 3 GOTY edition when it's on sale than it costs to buy all of this DLC in the "reduced price" bundle.) It makes Nintendo's handling of DLC seem archaic and quaint by comparison.

That being said, charging extra for little things is fine, nothing wrong with that. If it is at all related to the plot, and its not episodic, though... Then yeah, that's not encouraging people to support your business practices. Even Iwata said as much. But of course, he's dead now, so who cares, right?

People like Iwata are part of the reason why I loved Nintendo in the first place. So... to see this sort of business practice become standardized at Nintendo makes me increasingly jaded towards them.

@Aozz101x I find it kinda hilarious that people are bellyaching over the DLC when the game itself is already a complete game without it.

@MegaVel91 i do plan on buying this at some point, (with the DLC) just not all at once.

Honestly, the only piece of DLC that looks interesting to me is pack 4 since I'm a sucker for extra story. Normally, I'd consider getting the money and experience pack, but grinding in this game seems like it will be pretty accessible.

Season Pass... again.

It's sad to see such a brilliant company sinking in the worst business practices of gaming market. Hopefully, the base game will be a full experience and a very good entry.

@JaxonH Need to correct you slightly here. Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia has been out for 2 weeks in Japan. It released 19th/20th of April 2017. So it hasn't been out for months, and not even Japan has all of the DLC yet. The final DLC hasn't been made yet, and hasn't been revealed for Japan either.

Which improves your point even further.

@Priceless_Spork "No that's just it. The game is not complete without all the content. There is no extra content. That's just sucker think. There is only a game or part of a game."

That's a tad dubious. Take some previous Nintendo games, its a known fact that a game like Wind Waker had some dungeons removed because they weren't finished and those were re-utilised in Twilight Princess and/or Skyward Sword, so we ended up paying for that content through a different game.

Wind Waker is perceived a complete game despite the fact it doesn't have that content. The difference between then and now is that the devs are able to continue working on the game past the point it has been published and that extra work up until retail release or afterwards can be sold as DLC.

On the same merit if all of the content in this Fire Emblem's DLC didn't get made and the base game was just the base game, it would be considered "complete" even though it would be exactly the same state as the "incomplete" game if you bought it and simply didn't buy the DLC. Hell it would be considered "complete" even if the game had less content than the current base game, but no DLC.

I think it's better to ask "Is it worth what they're asking?". If you were interested in the game and the base game was worth it then why not buy it? If the DLC doesn't seem worth it then don't get the DLC.

It's always wise to be wary of DLC but people take it to the extreme on Nintendo games. Mario Golf: World Tour had the most courses in the series by default and was only £30, the DLC was cheap(£10 if I recall) and resulted in the game having as many courses as the GC and GBA entries combined. Yet people were frothing with outrage over the fact there was DLC despite the fact it made what was the best deal in the series even better value.

@PlywoodStick Yes, CD Project Red has great value and all... But why are all the others bad for not doing them same?
Why is it a problem if a company charges, in your opinion, too much money for their product. That doesn't make the company scummy or anything.
It also doesn't make the game itself worse in any way.
If product 1, the game, is worth the money them why not buy it?
If product 2, which extends product 1, is not worth the money well them don't buy product 2. There is simply no problem here, no one is harmed.

@JaxonH Sorry to poke a hole in your argument, but Echoes only came out in Japan in April, and had the same launch-day DLC. Other than pack #5 still being in development, all packs were completed before the game was released.

@RainbowGazelle @Blizzia

No, you're right. I'll admit it right now, I goofed on that. Idk why I was thinking it was earlier. Probably since all the previous entries took that long to be localized. Not used to seeing games come so quickly... That's a nice change of trend actually.

@RainbowGazelle
Buuuut... now I'm thinking about this. So ok, it releases here one month after. So no way they just started localizing. Perhaps they started localizing last fall. Which means the game was likely completed, but they waited to release it in Japan until the localization was almost complete. And in that time, got DLC ready... perhaps. We don't know. And the reason we don't know is because the game is a full and complete game so no one can definitively look and point at it and say, that is clearly cut out.

And that is why the only true metric that should ever be used is value. Because if it's not cut from the game, and it's not intrusive microtransactions, then I don't see a problem.

@ThomasBW84

"the season pass costs more than the core game, and even that represents a discount of over 30% off buying each pack separately."

Try again, Nintendo Life! Your calculations are so wrong!

€45 is not 30% less than €51.

How do you even get this wrong?

@JaxonH Fair point, I guess. I think it's the high price for stuff they charged extra for in the previous 2 games that's mainly upsetting people. E.g. We've had special Exp and gold gaining map dlc in Awakening and Fates; should they not be part of the main game now, instead of making us pay extra (and more than before) for a third time?

@Priceless_Spork Wrong. Just because DLC comes out does not magically make it incomplete. It's not sucker think to think otherwise, it's logic. You don't NEED the DLC for the game to be complete on it's own. It's not required to complete the story, it's not required to access a necessary item to complete the game. Nor is it required to enjoy the game in it's base state without the DLC.

The very fact the DLC is not required by itself refutes your logic.

So no. Shadows of Valentia is a complete game without the DLC. Your whole idea that the DLC means a game is incomplete is bogus.

@BornInNorway81 They're just repeating what Nintendo have said. Nintendo are claiming 30% off.

EDIT: Yeah, this is clearly false advertising. I've just done the maths and you're only saving just over 10%.

@ThomasBW84 Can you guys get in touch with Nintendo about the claimed 30% off.
Each pack separately is £45.85 in total.
30% of 45.85 is 13.75.
45.85 - 13.75 = £32.10
This is blatant false advertising, and shouldn't be allowed to stand!!

Edit: Never mind.

@BornInNorway81 @RainbowGazelle
Pretty sure they mean vs buying the maps individually, not by packs.

Official site says "over buying each item individually" so NintendoLife stated it wrong

Quite simply for me:

The game: Yes
The season-pass: I'll pass!

@JaxonH Ah, you're right. If you scour the paragraphs on Nintendo UK's page you see the line: "All of these packs and their individual components can be purchased on their own". However, by not stating the prices of the individual "components", I think Nintendo have made it seem like you can't buy them separately if you just scroll down to the price list.

I feel pretty neutral about this...
I agree that the DLC is just extra, including the ones which has is some characters backstory (which is more of an expansion of some of the characters and not the story), it doesn't change the echoes has the main story with some free DLC.

However I do agree the season pass is very expensive, it's pretty much the price of a retail 3DS game, that's just bad, one would prefer buying a different game instead of a collection of DLC.

it's best to buy them individually when you feel like playing them instead all at once.
the most worthy ones to me is pack 4 and the extra classes.

@Haru17 "This is a 3DS game that looks like a SNES game most of the time."
...You're serious, aren't you?
And most people I've seen who gave Color Splash a chance came away from it pleased.

@PlywoodStick Pack 4 seems to be mostly prologue fluff-- the game itself doesn't need it to stand on its own legs (see: FFXII-2's DLC, where the True ending is only after you've bought everything).
All the DLC is just overpriced fluff.

@JaxonH Actually, the DLC either (a) has maps in the style of Gaiden (packs 1 and 2), (b) doesn't have any map content whatsoever (pack 3: the overclasses), or (c) reuses the maps from the main game (pack 4).
Pack 5 is bringing over the Cipher mascots and for the sake of putting as little effort into it as possible I foresee it going the Pack 1 and 2 route.

@Priceless_Spork ...I underestimate the sheer stupidity of some people.
The DLC has no effect on the base game. If you would've bought it before, then there's no reason not to do it now. Just don't get the DLC.
I'm not sure what's so hard for people to understand about this.

@CrazedCavalier Most of the time playing Awakening you are looking at 2D, top-down low poly environments dominated by kinda ugly 2D sprites. What exactly do you think the SNES was? Fire Emblem games have used the same limited graphical style since I saw my friends playing them on Gameboy Advance.

And Paper Mario simply does not have the same appeal as the first three games anymore. Those games are about character most of all, with puzzles and combat coming next. They just aren't trying anymore, no matter how many internet apologists rally to the cause. It's just impossible to enjoy the new games in the same way.

@Priceless_Spork There are complete and incomplete games. With extra content, the complete game is not suddenly rendered incomplete. What is your logic?
The DLC is all fluff-- overpriced fluff that doesn't add much of anything. The game isn't any more complete with it or incomplete without it (if anything, most of it detracts from the game due to being designed to break it).

@Haru17 There's still a marked difference between them-- similar styles, but the SNES games were entirely sprite based with noticeably lower resolution on what was there. It seemed like you were going along the routes of "looks like a bad PS1 game".

Also, jeez that arrogance. So everybody who liked Color Splash is now an apologist? I remember when I didn't know that "apologist" was used as an insult more often than not.

@CrazedCavalier What do you want me to say? The slight resolution difference really influences the way I see tiny undetailed pixel art? It doesn't look on par with any fifth gen game when you're outside of the animated cutscenes and character portrait stuff (i.e. all gameplay).

And I'm not sure all of the self aware toad jokes in the world could convince me it's okay that a series that once made The Thousand Year Door and Super Paper Mario is now being appropriated to sell what could only be described as budget spin-off titles. It's not like this is quibbling over details — the Paper Mario games reviewed substantially better across many outlets when they had well thought out plots and combat.

@Priceless_Spork If that's the way you think and the sheer presence of DLC or any add-on content keeps you from buying a game than the only recent games you play are low-profile indies.
I don't like the DLC-- and I'm not going to buy the DLC. In no way does it effect my opinion of the game itself.

@Haru17 ...You seriously just said it looks like an SNES game.
In what universe does this: http://www.capsulecomputers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/fire-emblem-echoes-screenshots-001.jpg
Look anything like this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/FE%3B_Genealogy_of_the_Holy_War_screenshot.png
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/childman369/imgs/0/6/06e067e9.png

@Haru17 Color Splash is excellent I feel people who would have actually liked it forced themselves to miss out on a very worthy Paper Mario entry.

The reason Paper Mario was good was the variety of locations world and the attention to detail in the entertaining scenarios, the writing of the individual scenarios. Color Splash is literally jam packed with these, the world is really fleshed out with dozens of varied locations, the writing is very clever and has a lot of charm. The areas in the world has great atmosphere even when compared to the series best.

I suppose you could like Paper Mario for the character. But who? The main driving force of the one everyone likes most(TTYD) was some genius robotman who wants to rule the world repeatedly sends the same bunch of incompetent henchmen to repeatedly fail against the heroes, gets angry at them and then sends them out again...The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog saturday morning cartoon suddenly comes into mind.

I feel a lot of people argue that Paper Mario's strengths are areas that aren't actually strengths. People often point to epic main story and deep characters that make it good, but if you compared it to another critically acclaimed RPG its going to come up short when compared to something like Final Fantasy IX. I think there's a stronger case the atmosphere, clever writing and entertaining self contained chapters are what make Paper Mario good and give it an edge against other RPGs.

@CrazedCavalier The one where the bottom left screenshot looks just the same as the SNES one. You can squint and see some vague 3D shapes, but when you are planning out strategies on the battlefield for 19 of every 20 hours spent in a Fire Emblem game, the visual experience is the same today as it was years upon years ago. It's still tiny, not amazing sprites vibrating and walking over to each other with the help of giant arrows. It's almost like splitting hairs between A Link to the Past and Four Swords Adventures — or a previous generation Pokemon game to the DS ones. One is technically better looking than the other if you really split hairs, but they both look the same because they confine everything to grid-based cells.

@Dr_Lugae I said 'plot' not 'story.' The main story of just about any Nintendo game is going to be arch, however the chapters along the way in games like 3D Zelda, Paper Mario, and Metroid Prime Trilogy lend character with their unique settings and characters. That character in turn makes the main plot more interesting by virtue of passing through and playing off of those different locales.

You can speak reductively about the strengths of Paper Mario as long as you have a will to do so — everyone has been doing that with past 3D Zelda games since Breath of the Wild's release. Words are flexible like that. However, when I look at the marketing material for Color Splash I saw Mario and essentially the same helper not-quite-a-character from Sticker Star walking through on-brand, generic New Super Mario Bros. levels without even the barest hint of a new character or a town besides the designated hub. That hub of course not coming close to the detail put into a Flipside or a Rogueport, and that helper character not touching the effort put into writing Tippi or any of the party members in the first three Paper Mario games.

@Haru17 That simply isn't true though from the start of the game the first chapter is a Red Road with a Cafe, Blue Cavern, Canyon, Autum river/lake with waterwheels, Beach Festival, Red Tower. And the variety grows from there. There's Haunted Hotels, Polluted Parks, Islands with warp pipes to different dimensions, a Metal Gear Solid inspired secret base, a Restaraunt, a Runaway Train, a Train Building Factory, a Circus, an Archeological digsite. and these were all places shown in the games pre-release advertising. On the same note Huey literally has the most characterisation of any helper character across the series.

If you judge the game the way you are then clearly PM64 and TTYD should be considered the New Super Mario Bros ones considering their 1st Chapters are green meadows that end in a grey castle.

@Haru17 If you want to keep thinking it looks worse than a PS1 game, I'm not sure what to say to dissuade you.

@Priceless_Spork But there's hundreds of Pokemon off-limits in Sun and Moon (which basically require you to buy other games to access), and then there's Mythicals who are only available during brief, specific distribution periods. Pokemon games must be incomplete!!!

Ah, another Fire Emblem game, another chance for fans to be outraged! I'm in the "it's just extra content, if you don't like it, don't buy it" camp myself. Then again, I may not even buy the game at all until I can find it secondhand. I like FE, but I think Disgaea 5 Complete is going to be my next SRPG, and that should hold me for a while. Even when I played Awakening I only ever bought one extra map pack, and didn't buy any of the Fates DLC.

Ok for everyone still complaining that all of this content should have been in the game, here is the breakdown:
Packs 1 and 2 are for grinding gold, experience and items; they are designed to help players who are either stuck or who don't want to spend time grinding the conventional/in-game way. Pack 1 is for low-leveled characters and Pack 2 is for higher-leveled characters. Definitely optional and not necessary to enjoy the game.

Pack 3 lets you promote units at the max level of their highest class to something even higher. While this might seem like it was cut out from the game, keep in mind that the standard Fire Emblem model has two tiers for each class (a unit can get promoted to a better class once). Every base class except in this game except villager has at least two tiers, and four classes have three. What I'm trying to say is that an extra tier is cool (seriously, some of them look awesome), but it feels like overkill and definitely not necessary to enjoy the game.

Pack 4 is story DLC that takes place before the start of the story proper. I don't know enough about the story, but my guess is that this will be like the Owain, Inigo and Severa DLC from Fates, something that enhances the story but is not necessary to enjoy it.

As for Pack 5, who knows? This is all just my take on it. Maybe the DLC really is necessary to enjoy the game, but as for me, I'll be getting Pack 4 and that's probably it.
Oh and here's my reference for the DLC: https://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-echoes-shadows-valentia/miscellaneous/downloadable-content-japan/maps/#s1-1

lolol Nintendo has really fallen in love with the whole DLC scheme. Though I don't think I've ever seen a game where the DLC costs more than the game itself. I may pick this up, but I'm certainly less likely to do so now. Either that or pick it up used instead.

@thatguyEZ The DLC is overpriced fluff. Don't buy it, but don't let it effect the game itself-- all the stuff they're selling is just meant to break the game.

@Priceless_Spork I'm pointing out the innate flaws in your logic-- is Pokemon, by forcing you to buy other games in the series to get the "full experience", not incomplete?

@CrazedCavalier Sure, and I can get down with that kind of thinking if its a series you love. Nintendo has had a habit of making it quiet hard to support the recent games with a clear conscience. While I had some problems with Awakening, it was still a pretty great entry. But NOA butchering Fates was a joke. As was not having dual audio, even Atlus and Square Enix have added the option in their latest titles. I certainly wasn't the biggest fan of having to buy three separate games to get the full Fates package, it wasn't really my issue. I ended up picking Birthright and Conquest up used, but knowing I was playing an inferior version killed what little enthusiasm I still had for the title. So Nintendo really hasn't given me much reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. Though thank god the Switch isn't region locked.

While people certainly like to show how enlightened they are on the internet by throwing out the usual: 'only weebs want to pet cartoon girls, i'm glad its gone, you can just look up porn on the internet, you're probably a loser, learn what censorship is' etc. Though if you spend your time talking about 3DS games online you're already a bit of a dork. Not to mention after a creator makes a game, puts it on the market, and then someone not involved in the creative process comes along to rip bits out, and then act like they had no choice but to do it. I'm not about to give Nintendo money, or at the very least pay full price, for a version of the game that has had content pulled out in order to justify Nintendo's joke of a localization department.

If Echoes ends up being good and it doesn't come out that they've once again removed content and it has dual audio I'd be happy to pick it up along with those gorgeous amiibo.

@thatguyEZ Awakening's localization was nearly as "bad"-- if not worse-- than Fates (8-4 is estimated to have re-wrote 1/3 of the game, on top of large helping of random changes to supports and references randomly thrown, re-writing entire characters-- something NOA never did --and making others more gimmicky through battle and proposal quotes-- stuff NOA did to a lesser extent but still got called out on). Skinship itself was highly controversial with the devs and was a forced compromise (the team was split between "full upper body groping" and "get this away from the game now") handed down from NOJ. It's become very obvious in recent years IS is almost as split as the fandom-- the only thing Nintendo has really done is show a bit more preference towards the old guard with toning down blatant sexualization.

I'm neutral on Fates' localization and don't really like Awakenings all that much. Path of Radiance cut the Maniac difficulty entirely while putting in a ton of ship tease between Ike and Elincia, and Radiant Dawn cut an entire alternate script used in the higher difficulties that fleshed out the antagonists. That stuff effects the overall gameplay and plot-- that's the stuff I don't like.
Besides, would you rather have parts of the game read like somebody fed them through google translate a la Persona 5 (there's actually various lines that do read like that-- people have put the original Japanese through it and proved as much)?
Really, I think people make way too much fuss over these things. Especially considering how freakin' hostile most get whenever I try to argue with them, and the pure hypocrisy of acting like Fates' was any better than Awakening in that department.

Oh, and I'll let you in on something: the Japanese fandom thought the localization drama was pretty stupid, with people who've played the Japanese version saying they like the skinship replacement more because the original was just tedious.

I felt that Fates had two games worth of gameplay to it overall, which is why I gladly bought the LE. I hope they don't pull something like that again (and the writing is awful-- took one spit-balled 1500 page draft for three parts and put it through half a dozen writers who've shown they can't do much of anything right with executive pressure to make it better than Awakening), but I supported it.

Anyways, it's 8-4 doing SoV-- meaning everybody will speak like they're written by Joss Whedon, character's battle quotes will go from plan and generic to annoyingly gimmicky, and out of place pop-culture references will abound.
But I'm not going to let it bother me much. The same way that even though I prefer dubs I've bought several games that are sub-only. Ever noticed how almost always it's the sub fans rioting over dub-only, saying how they won't buy the game, while a lack of a dub doesn't effect most people's purchasing decisions?

I spent a load of money on the Awakening DLC and played it a bunch. I bought all three versions of Fate and the DLC and I'm still playing Birthright due to limited time. It only feels as though that game came out. I'm just not ready for this. I wouldn't have believed anyone who told me fifteen years ago that there would be too many Fire Emblem games for me to play!

DLC pack #4 looks very interesting. Anything that adds new story is always welcome. However, I will wait and see how significant the new content actually is. At $15 I am hoping for more than just a three new maps and some cut scenes.