Update: We've been asked quite a few times if this issue is the same on the Wii version of the game. As a test I've just used the exact same Wiimote + Classic Controller on both the Wii U and Wii Virtual Console versions available. The Wii version does not appear to have the same issue and the analog stick is far more responsive and plays fine. It's just the Wii U version that's broken which suggests it is indeed a software issue. We've had no reply from Nintendo as yet.
Original Article: Those of you that have followed the site for a long enough time will know that we have a bit of a running joke on Nintendo Life about this writer and F-Zero X. That's basically because it's the best F-Zero... at least in my humble opinion.
It's my go-to feel-good game; in fact I like to keep multiple copies around me at all times just in case I have the urge to use boost power. So, you can imagine my delight upon hearing that the best F-Zero was coming to the Wii U Virtual Console, not because I yearn to own it yet again and on another platform, but that a certain audience that perhaps hasn't played it before will finally get to experience the remarkable 1998 classic (and in silky-smooth 60hz, no less).
I'm a bit of a purist though; case in point is that I prefer to play F-Zero X on my Japanese NTSC RGB-modded Nintendo 64 that I have permanently welded into my TV. You may ask why, and that is a good question. Permit me to answer.
The reason is in the controller. The Nintendo 64 controller was - for want of a better word - unique. The feel and shape have never been replicated and for me is a large part of the experience when playing N64 games.
So whilst downloading F-Zero X on my Wii U my immediate thoughts were around how well the controls would hold up using the system's controllers; would the 15-odd years of engineering on analogue sticks actually improve the experience?
No, they haven't. It's horrible. For some unknown reason the analogue stick has a huge deadzone (perhaps up to 25-30%) which makes it almost impossible to play F-Zero X the way I do on a traditional N64 controller. At first I figured this might just be because I'm using the Wii U GamePad, so I tried the Wii Classic Controller and then the Wii U Pro Controller. Nope, they're all the same.
The other thing F-Zero X does on Wii U is emulate the Rumble Pak, but I think someone gave it too much boost power because it's vibrating constantly, just like Wonderful 101. No thanks.
You might assume it's just me, or maybe it's just my style of playing the game? Perhaps I'm simply too much of a purist to accept F-Zero X on anything but my beloved N64? Nope.
https://twitter.com/f_zero_x/status/794267389743529984
https://twitter.com/Jucksalbe/status/794231596933148672
So it's not just me. There are plenty of users on Twitter and the Miiverse community citing similar controller related issues, suggesting this is far from being an isolated case.
It's a real shame, and it's also confusing as to how and why this got through Nintendo's QA procedures without anyone noticing. Naturally it's quite possible that Nintendo could release an update that fixes the issue as it is almost certainly a software issue and not hardware related. We will reach out to Nintendo UK to see if we can get a comment.
Have you downloaded F-Zero X yourself? How are you getting on with the controls? As always, let us know in the comments.
Comments 102
You know what your problem is there.
You should be playing GX instead
Seriously, though, it is a shame for those affected. Hopefully someone at Nintendo will get the message and work on a patch, or some means of changing analog sensitivity.
Many games can afford bad controls, F Zero isn't one of them. I doubt Nintendo will do anything about it.
Also GX the best F Zero game, by the way.
These issues along with the ugly washed out colors from the Wii U VC... lol no thanks
Glad I hesitated when buying this now. I'll be sticking to the Wii version, thank you very much.
That's not good at all. Let's see if Nintendo responds. I told you that €10 was too expensive for an N64 digital game. And now it's even worse. The emulation isn't very good either as this proves. And that goes for the visuals as well. It took the NES Mini Classic to highlight just how fugly those games ran on Wii U.
Why is Nintendo passing out half baked ROM's this gen? Is the Nintendo seal of quality gone forever?
I hope they patch it soon, I haven't played this in many years and was feeling nostalgic.
If not, I still have the Wii plugged to a TV, with GCN controllers.
Clearly it's designed to emulate a knackered N64 control stick.
@AlexOlney ah, that explains it! The one you usually give to your mate so you know you're going to beat them?
@antdickens So THAT'S why you always beat me at F-Zero X
@Pink_Floyd This is the first time I have heard of issues with Virtual Console. Don't make the problem bigger than it is in reality.
@Damo I said "mate"
Please keep us updated if a patch is made.
@KoopaTheGamer Really? I have experienced lag on the VC like you wouldn't believe on the Wii U.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wiiu/comments/29f11v/virtual_console_input_delay_gamepad_runs_4_frames/
@antdickens That hurts.
@KoopaTheGamer More importantly, this is the first time the directors commented all together in one news post!
@Pink_Floyd
@KoopaTheGamer
I have only had Wii U VC lag while the console is downloading, though I do have all my VC games on the internal memory, keeping larger digital downloads on the hard drive.
As for this analogue issue, I noticed it when selecting the Acceleration/Max speed but otherwise the game was fine.
Gosh...
@AlexOlney LOL
An emulation kink can be hugely frustrating.
For Christ's sake: Not only have we not seen a proper F-Zero game on a Nintendo console in ages but when we do get one its controls are broken.
Come on, Nintendo! Get your **** together!
PS. I'd actually still rather play the original than any of the later games anyway, and I consider X better than GX too. So, my personal order of F-Zero home console games would go:
1. F-Zero
2. F-Zero X
3. F-Zero GX
Kind of ironic when you'd think the games really would/should get better with each new one in the series—I know some people would argue that they have (but not me, other than general graphics).
PPS. Nintendo's handling of the VC in general this generation has been pretty dang terrible, embarrassingly and annoyingly so. Someone should have hired Sega's M2 team to do the entire VC on Wii U, because those guys efforts on the Sega 3D Classic games **** all over anything Nintendo has done with its own VC titles.
I've just downloaded it as I too loved this game, wish I'd read this first.
Still I'll give it a go....
It seems to be OK with the Wii U pro controller for me but the gamepad controls are awful. Also the graphics have taken a hit, a lot glitchier and with more pop in than the N64 ever had as far as I remember.
They should get M2 to do all VC emulations.
@cmk8 how do you find the controls?
I'm glad I just bought Wave Race and a real N64, maybe I'll play F-Zero X on that instead!
I was planning on downloading this today. Thanks for the heads up. Let's hope Nintendo fix it. How did this get by quality control?
I also think X is the best F Zero. This is disappointing.
@Pahvi And, from what I remember briefly reading, those are supposed to be done very well in general. Maybe Nintendo should have just hired them to do the whole thing.
I have the same thing/problem with StarFox 64. Much better playing it with an N64 controller. I knew there was a reason I kept it around although now, obviously, I need an RGB mod on it
Dodged a bullet yesterday when my card was rejected, it seems.
@impurekind Not only have we not seen a proper F-Zero game on a Nintendo console in ages but when we do get one its controls are broken.
My thoughts exactly. This is embarrasing.
Ahh the original is the best.. not to plug myself .. but I will anyway ...check out my youtube channel to see my story and appreciation to this great game
At least EU has it, NA is so behind on N64 VC.
All F-zero's are awesome! Very difficult to choose one.
Snes version will always be special as it was my first exposure to the console.
F-zero X for its 60hz graphics (still looked stunning even on the borked Pal version).
Gx because graphically it's the best in franchise, so pretty and very difficult
As soon as I read this article, I placed an order online for the n64 to USB dongle. Hope Nintendo fix this issue,
@KoopaTheGamer
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1040125
Get your head out of your shell!
Fingers crossed they fix this soon...
broken f-zero versus perfectly fine fast racing neo... hrmmm... what a choice there.
Unacceptable. A disgrace. They need to patch this.
X is my #1 F-Zero game too. It's genius.
I think I'll just play Fast Racing Neo instead too.
Bought this yesterday, still got my original cartridge and the Wii VC version.
I have to be honest, I thought that I was just out of touch with the game but now reading this it seems that it is an actual issue. I never had such an issue before, and the speed/accel screen can really only be used with the D-Pad. Still, I have faith it will be addressed.
I'm going to try the new 8bitdo N64 bluetooth controller once it arrives to see if there's a difference. Why haven't you guys covered that yet?
GX is better than X this is the problem. Now serious I'm glad that I skipped at least for now X on Wii U.
@booker_steve
Most people don't notice input lag but it's still there. I've beaten Tyson a few times on Mike Tyson's punchout, but I can't beat Sandman on my 3ds. Punchout is hypersensitive to lag because you don't have much time to respond. Most games are not that way and you'll just adjust your timing to make up for the lag.
All N64 games on WiiU have this problem. DK64, Ocarina of Time, Mario 64, etc. It's just the most noticeable on such a precise game as F Zero X. In my experience though, the Wii version also has the same trouble.
F-Zero GX, best F-Zero.
I noticed this deadzone for some other games as well. Very frustrating! I basically had to relearn how to play Wave Race again.
The US doesn't have it yet, but I'm glad I got this warning at least. Such a shame Nintendo doesn't put more effort into the VC.
@Rocossa yeah, just wait for the N64 classic edition... It can fit in your pocket
Nearly bought it this morning
I would be very surprised if they actually patch this. Because that would be the first time they patch a VC game on Wii U lol...
...actually that's not entirely true because they DID patch Kawashima's Brain Training game when they made it a payed for release (it was available for free for a limited time but that version didn't have the restore point)
I like the timing of this coming a day after the story on the NES mini teardown and the back and forth in the comments on emulation and piracy. That got me thinking about how official emulation solutions tend to be very poor quality. There are people willing to pay for the old games even though the files are out there. Just give those people a decent product and don't force people to buy the same games over and over. My first VC purchase was a disappointment due to visual fidelity and inability to map controls to certain buttons(on a Tatsunoko fight stick). There are cases of horrible input lag. NES games have major brightness issues. I bought Genesis games(many I have as carts) on Steam a few years ago and the controller mapping was broken. Various retro collections have issues, like crap resolution, bad sound emulation. I have a PS2 Genesis collection and Sonic 1 of all games has graphics glitches. How do these things get released? You get filter and scanline options if you're lucky. All these companies need to do much better. I hope the mini NES and Famicom is the start of that, with them having new emulation software. So far, only Sega has upped their game with the 3D classics, thanks to M2.
Maybe on WiiU is worse, but on Wii I also had a lot of trouble with controls, not as good as in the N64. A shame.
Regarding the analog stick's deadzone, it's a problem for all emulated N64 games, not just F-Zero X.
Don't think this is a problem exclusive to the Wii U either. I had the exact same problem when I played it on the Wii. Try playing the Wii version of Majora's Mask, specifically the arrow shooting minigames. It's nearly impossible to hit your targets with any accuracy thanks to that analog stick, plus lag and questionable framerate.
It's not all bad though. If anything, the Wii U version of Ocarina of Time is probably the best emulation by far, as far as graphics are concerned. That's the version in which they've finally managed to replicate the original N64 torch lighting effects.
I also had similar analog stick problems with the Gamecube versions of Ocarina and Majora.
Ok the controller makes sense, but why must you play it on a Japanese NTSC console instead of a standard PAL one?!
@sdelfin You can also say the same for a lot of the free emulators out there. Many of which are often unstable and suffer from bugs and other issues. Game with carts that used specialized enhancement chips are notorious for being difficult to emulate properly which was likely why the VC version of Yoshi's Island was the GBA version rather than the SNES original.
If you want a real example of a lousy emulator look at the Genesis clone consoles. The sound quality is out of wack, the controls are extremely off, and you can't even save your progress. The sound quality isn't too surprising since from what I have read the Genesis's sound chip is known for being difficult to emulate or replicate properly.
I have Sonic Mega Collection on Gamecube and the games run pretty solid on that one. From what I hear the games run on a custom emulator that was designed by Sonic Team themselves.
The NES Mini's emulator is a new one designed by Nintendo themselves and it may be one of the best emulators they have created and it wouldn't surprise me if the rumors are true they are using the Mini emulator for Switch's VC.
I don't think many understand that emulation is much more difficult and demanding than it looks.
Yeah... the problem seems to be no G with the X
Thank-you for this article. I was considering buying this and now I'll hold off.
If they ever update and fix this, will you write another article to clue us in?
Thanks again
@King47 what game can afford bad controls? Much less many!
Have anyone tried it with Raphtechs controller adapter? I have one that let's me connect NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube controllers to the Wiimote, but have only tried the NES controller.
As a PQ nerd, I've already avoided buying a few N64 titles because of how dark they are by comparison to the N64 releases. This is yet another reason to hope Nintendo gets the Switch VC right this time.
@Wolfgabe You bring up some good points. The common clone Genesis thing I tried — a friend bought one — is quite horrible. Poor Genesis sound emulation was common in the past, but it has been sorted in various situations. There's no excuse for it now, especially in retail products. The PS2 Genesis collection credits Steve Snake(Kega Fusion) for its sound emulation, as I recall.
I'm sure emulation is not easy. I don't want to minimize the effort that goes into it. But that's no excuse for substandard products which have been very common over the years from various major companies. That is the point. There are those who will never pay for ROMs. Nintendo and others need to do better for the people who will. While there are and have been many bad emulators, there are quite a few excellent ones out there and, so far, they're way ahead of the likes of Nintendo on features and quality.
@Baker1000 the NTSC console ran at 60hz rather than 50hz for PAL and therefore is a lot smoother/faster and generally, better
@Sinton not yet, but we think this is a software issue it doesn't really matter which controller you use, they will all have the configuration. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.
Get the Raphnet N64-to-Classic Controller adapter. There. Problem solved.
@antdickens
Were you able to test this issue with the Wii version? I've the Wii version and I use the original classic controller, while not the perfect setup I'm able to enjoy the game. I tested it today and there is a bit of a dead zone on Wii.
Is the Wii u worse than Wii or the same? That's what I want to know? I really want this game in 60hz.
@Mart1ndo I don't remember the Wii having the same issue, although it's been a few years. Will have to dig out my Wii over the weekend and test it to be sure.
@BaffleBlend Have you tried this? Or is this a software issue, like @antdickens think?
Tough luck then! No way will Nintendo come with a update. To my knowledge Nintendo never releases updates for VC games. They dump the rom-files on the e-shop, and that's it!
I don't know about F-Zero X, but I've certainly had trouble with the archery mini-games in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time that I never had in the N64, GameCube, or Wii versions. I gradually move the Gamepad control stick one way and nothing happens, nothing happens, nothing happens, and then it suddenly jumps past what I was aiming for. I'm hoping for a mini-N64 with perfect copy of the original controller someday.
@antdickens
Thanks, I'd really like to know.
So basically, using a ROM on an unofficial N64 emulator for the Wii/Wii U is a better emulated experience than the official VC release? Is the dead zone really a result of the different controller axis radius from that of the N64 controller, or is it just bad coding/emulation on Nintendo's part? I doubt it's just because of the controller.
For those who are interested, there's a mod of F-Zero X called F-Zero X: Climax that changes the existing 24 courses, and adds another 24, based on the Japan only GBA title of the same name. Just another case of modders beating Nintendo at their own game.
The thing I don't understand is Nintendo's claim all the Virtual Console games are individually optimised. Clearly this wasn't at all, no one with any prior experience of playing the game could have tested it.
My band SpeedRun does a version of Drivin Thru on Max into Devil's Call in Your Heart. Heavy Metal is the Law for F-Zero soundtracks.
Search "SpeedRun rocks" on The Tube...
Still works better than the version for the North American Wii-U VC!
This is what I mean by "Nintendo phoning it in" they use the least effort to make VC releases...
It's so sad.
@SBandy the N64 had tons of popup.... it's crazy but I too remember old games differently I think or brains forget the popup and low frame rates of many n64 classics.
Also one thing to remember is the the N64 rendered at very low resolution. And when upscale all sorts of weirdness is seen. VC of Mario kart 64 haso some interesting errors.
@Mart1ndo article updated it seems pretty much fine on Wii.
@Mandalore yeah, this is the strange thing. I don't believe anyone who had played the original (at least for more than a few minutes) had tested this. I wonder what Miyamoto would think about it...
yet another excuse for me to wait things out. I guess I'll be "sticking to the plan" as far as my purchases go for the rest of the year.
@antdickens
Thanks man
@antdickens F-Zero could do with a positive news article after this. I've seen articles detailing Zelda and Mario speedruns in the past, a similar F-Zero article would make a good read. The F-Zero Central web site has a long and rich history of Time Trial competition, I'd be happy to help with details on records, advanced techniques, top players, videos etc.
That's pretty bad, the VC has been disappointing as of late I have a feeling they've moved all their resource from this a few months ago in light of the Switch.
@Mandalore I'm up for that, want to email me some more info? [email protected] thanks!
Nintendo, please do ONE thing right for the Wii U this year.
Okay, that was harsh. I like Star Fox Guard.
@KoopaTheGamer There are plenty of complaints around the internet, they're not that hard to find. Personally, I have no problem with SNES and GBA games. I think they look great, and I love the GBA smoothing option.
But I'm not sure what happened with N64. I have 2, Mario and Ocarina of Time, and they are both extremely washed out, with dull colors and bad contrast. And it's not my tv, because they look fine when I play the games in Wii Mode. So yeah, N64 roms are pretty trashy garbage on the Wii U's VC.
*edit: Also, Wii VC games don't have anti-aliasing (is that what it's called? I'm not sure) to smooth out the jagged edges. They look terrible. Play RE4 on VC and then play RE4 on PS3 to see what could have been. (o_O ) But nope.
@Sinton Works fine enough for me. That said, I never played the original cartridge in this case, so I may not notice the difference.
I got this game already for my N64 and Wii VC so I don't really need it again for Wii U. If there's anything Nintendo just need to merge the Wii shop with the eShop so we don't have to buy everything again, also all the best versions of those games are on the Wii Shop.
@dudujencarelli sorry but what do you mean "majora"? Was there even a Zelda majora mask on the gamecube?
@BaffleBlend Sounds good. Since the Wii VC seems to work better, I may go for that one instead.
@LuigiMan123 Pretty sure there was a Legend of Zelda Collectors Disk that had the NES/N64 games. I believe it was the Platinum GCN that came with it because I know I had it.
@antdickens cool, I'll put together some stuff and send it soon
Meh, never had any trouble compensating for input lag and dead zones and the like. The bigger problem is, as always with N64 VC, the lack of vibrant colours and contrast.
@Pink_Floyd Half-baked emulators; the N64 emulation on Wii U is atrocious; unofficial emulators are superior.
@Sinton Might as well. Cheaper to get the Wii version first if you change your mind than it is the other way around, with the discount for already-owned games and all.
Was playing this yesterday. Didn't notice any problems. Although maybe that's because I only used the Pro Controller?
Is it just F-Zero X though? There are a couple more N64 games on Wii U VC where the analog stick control seems unbearable.
Wow, you saved me! I am a big big fan of F Zero X and was about to purchase it ...
@Pink_Floyd Nintendo got rid of the seal of quality years and years ago. Look at a box from any of the last few generations, its not there.
And all that meant anyway was that the NES/SNES/N64 could turn the game on.
And all that meant anyway was that the NES/SNES/N64 could turn the game on.
Yeah. Exactly. It has absolutely zero relation as to whether the game was actually enjoyable to play or not. A very common misconception.
@antdickens don't like it, the controls really feel off.
I expected to rake some time to get back into it but I'm really struggling.
@Jayvir ohhhhh. I think I remember something like that actually.
A better title for the article would have been: "F-Zero X, Wii and U have a problem."
Lol I doubt Nintendo even bothered to quality check it, they probably assumed it would be fine!
@antdickens email sent!
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