Just yesterday, Yves Guillemot – CEO of Ubisoft – talked about what he thinks of the NX and seemingly had nothing but high praise for the upcoming device. The good news comes as a hopeful indicator of what's to come, as Nintendo's next console has lots riding on it. At this point in time, it's safe to say that the Wii U was far less than successful, despite the presence of many quality titles in its library. Guillemot had something to say on this, too, adding that Nintendo has learned from its past mistakes.
IGN got a chance to talk with him after yesterday's presentation and asked him whether or not he sees NX as a step back towards the Wii's all-inclusive approach. Here's what he had to say:
It's difficult to answer that [before NX is revealed]. What we see is that Nintendo has learned from the Wii U. All publishers learn from what they do, and then come with something new and more attractive, which I think is the case here.
Those are certainly encouraging words, and one can only hope that they actually turn out to be true. Considering that the NX is only half a year away from being on shelves, perhaps Nintendo will opt to finally reveal the thing sometime in the near future. Really, Nintendo, any day now.
I hope your right ubisoft.
the more that we have too wait for the reveal of the NX, the more then less likely of it being selled
although, i don't know that. i like to laugh at this comment of mine, and prove myself wrong, i sure did when they reveal more stuff at E3,
i'm glad that Nintendo is giving up the Wii brand, what got the Wii U in this shape anyways. but the question is: well the NX sell like Hotcakes? who's to know, again, is Ubisoft right?
I'll believe that when Nintendo reveals the system's name. If it has "Wii" in its name or sounds as stupid to say as "Wii U," then they've learned nothing.
Look at all these pessimists. Lighten up will ya
You guys' negative comments were a waste of reading time.
@allav866 They've already said they're retiring the Wii brand, so at least there's that. I'm just utterly baffled by their silence on it. What are they waiting for?
I would love to believe it but let's face it, we hear this type of thing every time.
Having said that I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games first and foremost so it doesn't affect me much!
I will buy third party games if they bring something a bit different, if they are just the same games as those released on other consoles but compromised in some way then I will just buy them for my PS4.
Hurry up and reveal the NX because I am going from excited to annoyed Nintendo!
@faint Yeah, a lot of skepticism fueled by disappointment. Here's to hoping the NX changes their outlook.
@MitchVogel A question that's been in my mind for a while. My assumption is that they want to maximize holiday preorders and pre-purchases for 3DS bundles before revealing the NX. That and they are probably finalizing the product for showcase.
Finally snaps and shatters his wine glass against the fireplace ENOUGH! Just reveal the darned contraption!!
I still find it bizarre how the thing is launching in six months, and we still know literally nothing concrete about it.
I don't think this has ever happened before.
@OdnetninAges For real!
Guys this is good news stop being negative nannys
@OdnetninAges Never for Nintendo outside of slight upgrade consoles (e.g. New 3DS). If you ignore those types of consoles then I think NX is getting pretty close to shortest time between reveal and launch for any console.
Nintendo never learns!
i'm w/o words... (kinda like this article...)
I guess they will reveal it after the WiiU's swansong (or last nail) that is Paper Mario... So my guess is within the first half of October. With these shorter times they seem to try a different marketing model, more Apple like.
It's stupid to wait until after Paper Mario: ColoUr Splash releases. The game's likely to sell poorly regardless. Name 1 Wii U game released this year that has sold well(mind you they only released about 4 games afaicr)? They've got their next generation console that is crucial in how their future pans out and they want to wait for 1 game to release before talking about it? I don't think so.
I'm sure it's not coming in March. That's too early
I'm guessing releasing information a year and a half before release is a mistake they learned from. I.e, xbox tablet compatibility and ps4 & vita compatibility following shortly after wii u information release is something nintendo wants to avoid this time around.
Yeah, I won't believe it until I see it. And even then it has to prove itself in the market.
Fans (and fanboys) tend to have selective memories on promises and also tend to justify much of the decisions made even if they are wrong.
I hope the NX is an excellent console that is worth my money and the money of millions others.
@Henmii If they never learn, then how did they succeed?
Well they revealed the DS 6 months before its release so it's still possible NX will release in march !
And look at what Apple is used to : reveal 700-1000€ devices only ten days before their release... Nothing is impossible
Will they reveal the NX before the release of Pokemon s/m? Isn't it possible that there could be a spike in 3ds sales because of the pokemon hype right now? I say they ride the pokemon hype train and sell a load of 3ds'es, then reveal the NX sometine after.
@MagicEmperor What is NX? A miserable little pile of secrets!
why is everyone so pessimistic, dnt u wanna see nintendo succeeding?
@KokoriLegend Of course we do but we see everything that happened to the Wii U, from its reveal, specs, name, launch sales, overall sales, lack of advertising, OS, battery life, range of the gamepad, launch lineup, poor game sales, missing franchises, droughts, inferior ports, late ports, 3rd party abandonment, etc, etc, etc. You name it, it went wrong. People have to keep their expectations tempered.
Hope Ubisoft has learned from there mistakes also
I just wanna play BOTW now!
@nono6400 The difference is that Apple fans know exactly what the next device is (the new version of...) and will buy it immediately even if they don't know, or understand, what the new features are. A small (by hadware sales standards) group of people worldwide will have this same approach to Nintendo stuff (most of the people on this site are probably included) but a majority will need convincing that a new Nintendo device is something they need in their lives.
@KokoriLegend yea I want Nintendo to make lots of money so they can give us miitomo 2
i srsly hope your jk @lkramali
@MarcelRguez Indeed! But enough talk! Have at NX!
I wonder how many more news articles we can wring out of that one IGN article...
Notice how he says 'all publishers learn'? I.e. this is just more generic rhetoric - there's absolutely no detail about what Nintendo might have learnt. It's meaningless.
@KokoriLegend jokes aside. I can only see NX following in the footsteps of wii u
@Ikramali as u wish, however keeping an optimistic mind wont hurt 🙃
Ubiderp are only fuelling the hype! I'm pumped for NX!
@allav866 shows how much you ever listen Nintendo said months ago they where stepping back from the Wii name lol
@gcunit yep, pretty much said nothing, this whole thread pretty much says nothing, except that we are all (for the most part at least for what i can see) tired of waiting for the NX reveal... and the sad truth is, we might have to wait a bit longer if nothing is announced this october... -_-
@Slim1999 Shows how much you actually read from my comment. I also said that it can't sound as dumb as "Wii U." Even "Wii" was a cooler name, and the "Wii would like to play" ads made the name all the more memorable. Wii U's marketing could not be so clever. I'm saying that people need to be able to remember the NX's final name, and not feel stupid saying it out loud.
It's Nintendo, they don't learn from anything...
I'll believe that once Nintendo reveals the thing and manages to have actual games on the NX, instead of the barren wasteland of the Wii U
I don't mind waiting as long as it's worth the wait.
Impatient commenters sound like spoilt children
I couldn't give a toss about Ubisoft or Yves.
Ubisoft bringing their shovelware to NX doesn't appeal to me at all.
Nah, they haven't revealed it yet.
Well, no matter which way you look at it, this is positive. This specific comment might be kinda empty, and you may not like Ubisoft or their games, but they are one of the biggest software publishers in the world and Yves Guillemot is a BIG name in the industry, so him being so positive about it may very well actually say a lot and it could mean a healthy supply of games for NX.
It's a whole different tune from back in the day with the Wii U. Also positive but with a different tune, much like EA was sounding like then. You never know for sure, but it seems more genuine to me now, and I'm a sales & marketing professional so I see myself as more than able to see BS coming from a mile away and after having read the entire interview, it seems pretty genuine to me.
And maybe people have forgotten already, but this is coming after (or maybe it was during) the European gathering that happened this week, so it could very well also be related to that.
Now now, don't let your patriotic fervor make you see only the red color, will ya? Catch a flick at the theater, lighten up, get a sense of humor! And of course, no offense meant within my playful dialog - in my defense, I'm just counting on your berserk button to do the exact opposite and make you laugh. Hopefully.
And I agree on "dialog" being awful compared to "dialogue", but that kind of kills my point here
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Minecraft: Wii U Edition (Physical).
Nintendo learnt a lesson doesn't equal good. For all we know Nintendo "learnt" that core don't give an FU...dge about Nintendo. Just like how publishers learnt that people don't "want" third party games on Wii U from people boycotting new sales of "incomplete" titles
@Mega_Yarn_Poochy In North America (and presumably Europe), Mojang published Minecraft: Wii U Edition. But that wasn't the case in Japan. Microsoft, the new owner of the IP, published the game directly over there. I meant Nintendo published game but that doesn't really matter. Yes, I think Minecraft has sold reasonably well on Wii U. The game released last year but as you say the physical release was this year.
@nono6400 Oh great! Now we won't hear anything until April!😀
This sounds exciting, and since I've got Mario Maker and loads of other games, I'll wait as long as I need to.
The fact that it's almost October and NX supposedly releases in March and nothing has been announced goes to show Nintendo has learned nothing.
Also, regardless of what NX ends up being, are we all just going to pretend like this same guy didn't state that Nintendo's gamers simply do not purchase/play mature games? Like Ubisoft is going to suddenly do an 'about face' to that fact and start porting anything other than Just Dance and some one off family friendly exclusive on the console?
Feeling good, remember what happened after GameCube
@allav866 I'm pretty sure Nintendo already said it would not use the Wii moniker, so we're beyond that at least.
@Tlink7 Those problems don't happen at launch, you're better off waiting 2 or so years and then decide if there are enough games...
See the Wii U had something like 27 retail games at launch (in NA), and strong (if uninventive) 3rd part support. Don't get me wrong a lot of it was quick cash grabs, but the games were there... it wasn't until the next year or two where companies started pulling out one by one.
So Sure there need to be games to sell the NX but the NX also needs to sell for there to be games... catch 22... we can only wait and see.
@allav866 I agree
Nintendo made about 30 mistakes w/ Wii U, so just learning from 1 of them is still going to leave 29 of the same mistakes for them to make again. Or not. Maybe they'll fix all 30 of those mistakes and come up with 30 new ones.
sighs Unless Ubi's talking about a reveal date, or the announcement to the announcement, no f-bombs given.
Because Ubisoft are obviously going to say that the NX is crap, aren't they?
Good grief. The negativity and pessimism in this comment section is quite thick. 😐
@rjejr Tsssk, tsssk....
Nowhere does it say that they have learned from only one mistake. It says that Nintendo has learned from the ENTIRE experience with the Wii U, not just one specific part.
I like the Wii U, but Nintendo definitely made plenty of mistakes with it. There's no way yet to know whether Nintendo has learnt any lessons.
The Pokemon Go hype train has left, they're probably waiting for hype from super Mario run or mini nes release to reveal NX. They know how impatient people are, so maybe waiting is best for a general audience to take notice and not lose interest.
@ThanosReXXX Yes, but here's how Nintendo learns thing. Wii U didn't sell well when we launched in November, it must be Novembers fault, let's launch new hardware in March. B/c 3DS sold so well in March it had to get a 33% price cut 2 months later. I think Nintendo must be run by salesmen, they never look to the past, they just try to sell whatever they have. And we better hope they don't look to their past mistakes, b/c their mistake was launching a home console after SNES, or after N64. If they learned anything, it would be to stick to handhelds, or try something new, like a hybrid. Just the existence of a new Nintendo home console would mean they haven't learned anything. I want a home console, but I also miss dropping off my roll of film at the 1 hour photo place and getting free doubles to give to my friends.
ARE YOU SURE?
Nintendo is a little bit like Ash Ketchum; you'd think they learned something from everything they've gone through, but once a new generation starts, it all goes out the window.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Pokken Tournament has shipped over a million, I'd imagine that Twilight Princess HD and Star Fox Zero have done decent as well. Not sure about Tokyo Mirage Sessions though.
I kinda see what Nintendo is doing here, I bet NX will be revealed next week, here’s why.
Not just Guillemot has said that Nintendo learned a lot from Wii U, but also did Iwata, Miyamoto, Reggie and Kimishima, they all said that the Wii U message was wrong, and people didn’t have time to try it out for themselves, “But they missed E3 and TGS and blablabla”, there’s a bigger, better event to showcase the NX, the New York Comic Con, that is the perfect place to let regular people, not just press, to try out the console, that’s what they need, attract all sorts of people to NX, not just the “hardcore” audience.
If they miss Comic Con, then you can say they haven’t learned anything but I think I’m onto something here.
@rjejr Mjèh... I don't know. I'm not going to pretend to know how Nintendo learns, or doesn't learn from their mistakes, but if a big company like Ubisoft, regardless of what people may think of them, says that they can clearly see that they have learned, then I think that it's safe to say that it will at the very least have some truth to it.
I'll forgive you for making fun of my profession, so moving on...
Free doubles were good, but if you're using that as an analogy as to why Nintendo shouldn't come out with another home console, and that it would be a sign that they haven't learned anything, then I think it's time for you to cut down on the meds or hallucinogenics that you're using now.
And that is besides sales figures or personal sentiment...
The things they have reportedly learned from are mistakes made WITH the console, it wasn't the mistake of MAKING a console, so seeing as this is the case, I fully expect them to release another console, and I will welcome that initiative with open arms.
Handheld only isn't and never will be the solution. And according to Mr. Guillemot, they are indeed trying something new, so why would we not welcome that? The gaming industry is growing stale with only graphics and power updates, but little inventiveness to speak of, except for VR, which a lot of people are also against, so that's not going to do it for most people.
Maybe we should just wait and see what Nintendo has made before we start lamenting their "dumb" decision of coming out with yet another console...
"Really, Nintendo, any day now."
I agree, just to confirm/deny some of the rumors floating around at least.
@HappyMaskedGuy Their rushed Wii U ports say otherwise.
@Laki2 I count sometime after Paper Mario Color Splash being released that they'll show the thing.
Not knowing anything in this age of instant gratification feels strangely refreshing. It's half a year away - really no great hurry.
Are we still sure the NX is one thing? Nintendo originally announced NX as a 'platform' not a 'console', right? They mentioned Miitomo was a clue. I'm calling Miitomo Mii integration into games with friends lists pulled from Facebook/Twitter.
If the platform operates across mobile, handheld and home then maybe all the bits aren't in place yet?
Yeah, yeah with all the positive talk. The same stuff was spewed before the Wii U dropped and we know how that turned out. Guillemot's word is about as trustworthy as Fils-Aime's, in my opinion. I hold my reservations for the actual reveal from Nintendo (and even then, that won't mean much unless they've really learned their lessons once it gets out there in the wild).
Some different opinions/views on the matter. Take your pick:
@ThanosReXXX "Maybe we should just wait and see what Nintendo has made before we start lamenting their "dumb" decision"
But you've been lamenting the hybrid as dumb since August, I'm just trying to keep up. And I've probably been lamenting a Ntineod home console as a dumb idea since 2013, but I have so many comments on here - over 13,000 - my comment list only goes back to Monday Aug 15th. I wonder if Google could find it?
@ThanosReXXX i noticed the same kinda speech, but he can't elaborate on it till nintendo show it off though so it's hard to judge. the difference is square enix wasn't pushing the wii u at launch, just oh we could make a crystal chronicle game. not we are making dq11 for it. that video about ubisoft ceo was the reveal of the wii u not beforehand.
@rjejr Tit for tat, hùh?
But honestly, out of the two ideas, the hybrid truly is the stupidest, most risky and most divisive idea.
@kenrulei I'd say watch that first video that I posted in comment #84. The guy is a bit all over the place, but I can definitely agree with his explanation of why Ubisoft's enthusiasm is different/genuine this time and why we should indeed get excited, instead of keeping expectations low, like so many are doing out of fear of being disappointed.
@ThanosReXXX Nice list of vids. Did we know there was a rumour for the reveal being Sat or Sunday? I'm hoping for Monday Columbus Day Oct 10, it's a medium holiday over here, lots of kids are off from school, and it's the Monday after PM:CS. And it's 3 days before the PSVR launches, so Nintnedo gets to take some of the steam out of Sony's sales.
so, um, like, I just decided now to read the IGN interview.
""I think, once again, the interface is very attractive," he said. "It's a machine that will be easy to use for all gamers. They have built in something that will give us chance to really have a different experience from what exists today. That's what I like - that they come with something new that is adapted to what we actually want now."
None of that says powerful home console to me, it just makes me want to go and hide in the closet.
""I think it's a really new approach, it's really Nintendo, coming with something new again. We love it.""
Still not helping. What can it be? Kinect already did easy voice and hand gestures. Now the domain of Siri and Alexa. Gamepad had a touch screen. Wii had motion and pointers. I'm not a fan of motion, but I like the pointing. Play "Max and the Magic Marker" on Wiiware if you get a chance, it was awesome. Only really works well w/ pointing. I know you've been trying to come up w/ something special for at least a year, and if you came up empty after all that time I'm not going to get it in 5 minutes, or ever, but whatever it is, it worries me. A lot.
On the bright side, it could be hooked up to a powerful home console, but all I can think of is touchscreen tablet, which they just did w/ Gamepad. I got nothing. Even a hybrid doesn't impress me anymore, but that's the only think that strikes me as "Nintendo".
Did you think the "in" in this sentence was out of place?
"They have built in something that will give us chance to really have a different experience from what exists today."
So maybe a home console that plays every Nintendo game ever? That's what our buddy @kirk wanted 18 months ago when he laid out his plans for NX, never ending VC.
Oh well, enough w/ the word games. #justtellus
So... Is it a hybrid or not?
@rjejr No, I don't think the "in" was misplaced. Guillemot's English isn't perfect, but his grasp of the language is good enough for him to be able to say EXACTLY what he means.
But you know, the mind is a wonderful thing, and the area you are from, determines your way of thinking. Take me for example: I still think, dream and ponder in English, even though I have been living in Europe for almost 36 years now.
Guillemot thinks in French and I speak French as well. If this thing was a hybrid or a handheld, then I'm almost sure that he wouldn't have used the word "machine". There are French words for device, mobile/handheld and system, so if he meant that, he probably would have thought about those and would have used the English equivalent of them. But he didn't, which to me is a hint that this is truly a dedicated home console, and one with something special built in...
And I think, although that's debatable, that the part where he says "That's what I like - that they come with something new that is adapted to what we actually want now" actually points to VR and/or AR.
The "we" in that sentence seems to point to the general public, and like it or not, VR is the current thing to have or do.
I genuinely have to smile and shake my head at you still thinking that a hybrid would be "Nintendo" because I couldn't disagree more. Not just based upon all that Nintendo has said in their own financial reports, but also because of all the other things that we have now discussed almost to death and my own perception of what "The Nintendo Difference" is.
And a hybrid tablet with breakaway controllers in my mind never comes any further than being the latest Vtech or Fisher Price toy, but not a real, dedicated, quality Nintendo product.
Here's hoping they're not actually going to present one, because that is going to mean a looooong recovery period on my part, because right now, I still can't see that being successful in any way, shape or form, and not just in my personal opinion, but also from a professional standpoint.
Going back to Yves Guillemot: I read and hear genuine enthusiasm, which to me is decidedly different than with Wii U, because Ubisoft knows what's on the horizon from the competition, which speaks volumes in favor of a capable system as well.
If you can still speak so positively about a system if you know full well that some powerful systems are about to be released by the competitors, then Nintendo must really be on to something.
And I hope they are, because it's about time for them to be viewed in a positive light again.
Oh, and Kirk probably won't be happy, because he wanted to cram a Wii U inside the GamePad with the entire VC and eShop to go with it...
@rjejr Just watched some gameplay footage of that Max & the Magic Marker game. So not my kind of thing.
I once tried Drawn to Life, which I would put in the same category, and both games seem to be slightly inspired by Crayon Physics, which already had people drawing solutions to puzzles years before either of these games came out.
Also wanted to add another layer to the Yves Guillemot interview: he did that interview right after the meeting that Nintendo had organized, so it is not only the "machine" he likes, but also their plans and strategy surrounding it. Just saying...
@ThanosReXXX He does sound enthusiastic, home console enthusiastic. This isn't just an under powered 4DS handheld. But I can't rule out a powerful hybrid in a dock based on enthusiasm for a home console if the hybrid can pull it off. I would be shocked at this point if Nvivdia is anywhere near this thing, too quiet on that front. Why blow off a working relationship w/ DMP, who seems asian, to go w/ Nvidia, who seem western? AMD makes sense not b/c its asian, but it's b/c the other 2 have them so I'd imagine porting would be easier.
Guess my big problem w/ a AMD home now is the price, especially w/ any type of "Special" he was talking about. And it looking too much like Wii U, which failed miserably. Home needs to be cheap, not special. Special has to have limited impact on the price, Gamepad killed the Wii U's chances.
@ThanosReXXX Did he like them not revealing it yet? Did anybody ask him if he thought the silence was a good thing only 6 months before launch?
@rjejr I don't think, no: I'm 99.5% sure that a hybrid couldn't pull it off, at least not in the power department. It's like I've already mentioned a couple of times before: you'd end up with a really powerful handheld, so that's the good part, but on the other hand you would have a decidedly underwhelming home console experience, so it isn't going to be a very well-balanced scale to present to people.
Personally, I also can't fathom why people can't see or understand that. To me it's clear as day. Or they would need to have something so special in it, that all of these factors don't even matter anymore, but that would truly be the only exception.
And the thing with cheap is (and both the market at large and the consumer will perceive it as such) that it automatically translates to "not powerful", "kiddie", "loser" and so on. All sorts of negative connotations that you do NOT want people to associate with your newest system that has just arrived in stores.
But I have already told you that before. As well as that the new AMD cards that can rival a PS4 or even better it, are only $149 MSRP, so there's your cheap price, and Nintendo will only have to pay 60 - 70% of that if they purchase them in orders of 10 million per batch, as was reported in the Foxconn article.
Add some other necessary components, calculate a profit margin and you could end up at anything between $249 and $349. They have to find that sweet spot between value for money games- and hardware wise, but also compared to the others, and so the price point I mentioned could be well within the ballpark if it is truly an innovative device that makes big companies genuinely enthusiastic.
(concerning that innovation: I've been thinking some more about what AR/VR could add to Nintendo IP's and when I thought of AR, I immediately thought of Metroid, and the image of the visor on screen. Now imagine you had that projected near your face on HoloLens-like glasses... mind blown... )
That will make it have value for money, and then the price will be worth it. That's sales & marketing 101...
Nothing was asked concerning the reveal, by the way.
Oh, and DMP and Nvidia don't just seem Asian and Western respectively: they actually are...
And AMD makes sense because they too have been working with Nintendo for a long time: they took over ATI, who manufactured the GPU inside the GameCube and first models of the Wii, but during the Wii's launch in 2006, ATI was taken over by AMD, so the later models Wii actually had AMD GPU's in them, although they still used the label ATI. (and there was no difference in the chips, because: same factory)
And the Wii U also used an AMD GPU, so that collaboration is also still VERY current, much like the DMP partnership is in the handheld department.
@ThanosReXXX " and DMP and Nvidia don't just seem Asian and Western respectively: they actually are... "
Yes, and when I told you Sony was a Japanese company like Nintendo, you corrected me and told me they weren't, that even though they were based in Japan they were really a western company, so before I made another mistake describing a company based on its location, I put the "seems" in there to cover myself, b/c I can find out where a company is located, but I can't find out if they are Asian or western until you tell me what they are.
A hololens is not making it easy for the casuals. He said the interface was made for easy interactivity, nothing about AR or VR is easy enough for casuals. I think it's the hybrid rumour. It's a touchscreen which is really easy for people to operate - none of that Wara Wara nonsense - w/ Wiimotes magnetized to the side. Just like that Wii U development kit pic you like. So maybe it isn't the hybrid, but the controller for Home. Buts it's going to be garbage like that, that guy was too casual happy.
@rjejr Well, no offense obviously, but the whole Sony is also Japanese thing doesn't apply here, but I understand where you were coming from, so here's the gist of it:
DMP does all its business in Japan and has an almost exclusively Japanese clientele. Maybe you asking me the other day why mainstream media over here hasn't picked up on them should tell you something about how unknown they are in the Western world, other than with some insiders, probably.
And Nvidia on the other hand, is well known, primarily in the PC business, and they are a born and raised all American company, so yeah...
As for that HoloLens thing: man, I was just fantasizing about what that would be like, to feel like you were wearing the Metroid visor, but let a man have his dreams, bro. It was just me letting my imagination run wild, wondering how it could be. Never said it was a possibility.
And maybe AR or VR could be somewhat confusing to some (although I would assume that most people that know how to wear glasses or 3D visors, would also know how to put on a HoloLens type of thing) but most people will adapt very easily. After all, all you have to do is wear it.
And as a good example of the easiness of AR: I've let almost everyone in my family, young and old, have a go at the 3DS's AR games, and they all got it the first time, so I also don't see the obstacles there. You're putting up road blocks where there simply aren't any. And the important thing is that the AR and/or VR could very well be a built-in feature, like Guillemot might have been hinting at, but that doesn't mean that it is the main feature, so perhaps there isn't even an immediate need for people to get to understand it. But putting on some visor to play a game is actually the epitome of casual to me, so I really don't see the issue. Casuals will probably have way more trouble with full blown computer games, like for example a Zelda game.
And an interface with easy interactivity also doesn't say anything. I mean, how easy is it to navigate the PS4's interface, or the Xbox One's? It takes all but a minute or two to learn how to use that, even for the least tech savvy person.
I'd sooner say that a handheld and a console combined into one box is more confusing than that...
And you seem to keep shifting from good to bad , no idea what's up with that. A couple of comments ago we more or less agreed that Guillemot was indeed genuinely positive about a console which would probably also be a capable system, and now all of a sudden you think he is too happy about some type of casual garbage and it's going to suck?
What the hell happened? Did you re-read the interview or watched a video to dissect it and only filter the bad out of it, so you could have something to be grumpy about?
You should really try to hold on to the positive bits there, my friend, instead of sinking back into that tar pit of negative visions again. I'm still on the upside, it's certainly the better place to be...
I genuinely believe that he is not going to be that kind to Nintendo and that enthusiastic if even one single part of the system, whatever it may ultimately be, is crappy or cheap or underpowered, so until actual ironclad proof tells me something, I will stick with my own interpretation of this interview, and not just because I like it the most, but because it makes the most sense.
That, and I want to spend the rest of the days waiting for the reveal in a positive mood. It will be revealed any day now, after all. What with all the rumored dates already done and dusted without even a sigh from Nintendo, I'm going to opt for the first week of October, because I'm not trusting this month anymore.
But it will be soon. Now that the European meeting has come and gone, there will be one more in America as well, according to several sources, so that will probably be the equivalent of the European one, talking about launch schedules, the hardware and release dates, so who knows what interesting little snippets we might still see pass by next week, but somewhere in the first half of October is my bet for the official reveal.
And I'll go one step further and say that it will either be on a Tuesday or a Thursday, simply because of the fact that these are in general also always the days on which Nintendo Directs were broadcasted, save for a few exceptions...
But it will happen soon enough now, so hang in there.
@rjejr Anyways, it's getting close to that 4am clock over here again, so I'm done for the night, see you tomorrow.
And now I also have a little back log, because I still didn't reply to your and the Captain's comment in the other thread from yesterday.
But that will be remedied before the weekend is done...
@ThanosReXXX Good news, I have about a 10 hour day tomorrow - probably today for you - away from screens, so less negativity.
I said September 27-29 in late August so I still like that time frame. If it's the first week of October I will find Reggie and kick him were it hurts b/c I think that's an insult to all the people who worked on PMCS which releases on Friday October 7th. They waited all this time, they are going to undermine Wii U last big exclusive? Monday October 10th is Columbus Day, a school holiday, that would be great, and take the wind out of the PSVR launch Thursday Oct 13. (Just saw a great PSVR commercial on TV during the Met game) After Oct 14 is too late, no point even guessing after that, it's close. I can feel it.
My negativity is brought about by 18 months of guessing and still no end in sight.
You know as much as we all do that Nintendo does bonehead after bonehead move nowadays. If the rumors are true, then we get another tablet-like controller. Oh that worked out pretty well for the Wii u...
My prediction: This will flop even harder!
@rjejr Yeah, the Paper Mario thing also crossed my mind, so that's probably not going to be the date. Well, maybe they'll surprise us and reveal the damn thing this coming week after all, who knows?
And here is some food for thought: It kind of dawned on me that if Nvidia isn't involved in the final product (might still be in the dev kits) then that to me would also seem to make the whole hybrid theory invalid, since that was more or less based on the fact that Nvidia halted production of their own Shield 2 device and as such, they would sell that tech to Nintendo, making the NX the proverbial Shield 2.
Now that this is all but off the table, the hybrid should also be. Unless of course Nintendo has thought out some modern version of the GBA/GameCube connection, but that would not be a hybrid, but a synergy: two devices working together on the same software, being "like brothers in a family of systems".
Also fits in nicely with the whole "What we mean by integrating platforms is not integrating handheld devices and home consoles to make only one machine." quote from mr. Iwata...
@rjejr And check this out:
(read the job description and candidate profile)
SMD also did a video on the final pieces of the No Nvidia (or rather: is it a hybrid or a home console) puzzle:
That document I linked to is in the description of the video, along with a bunch of other links to information.
@rjejr And Ashley and her merry band of rogues at The Know have also picked up on the Yves Guillemot interview:
@ThanosReXXX All you have to say is "Ashley" and I'm there. And that guy seemed not stoned, much more serious, that other guy was gone.
That "PS4 fans won't like this" comment around 2:00 from MCV has kind of stuck with me. Again at the end they say won't have PS4 or X1 power. Which if that were the case would rule out AMD x86 for me, could be ARM or DMP.
No time for SMD though I have noticed his absence. I don't need him to tell me Tegra is a non-starter, unlike you I like my history, and Euro gamer screwed that up w/ the 3DS, no reason to think they didn't screw it up again. I'm still 50-50, I think we get your home console, but I also think we get the tablet w/ removable controllers as a controller. It's not a hybrid, but you still have to deal with a tablet. No way you come out of this unscathed.
Enjoy the rest of your day, don't let them unveil NX w/o me.
@rjejr "that other guy"
You must mean Jon Risinger, the long haired guy, who does seem to be kind of ADHD at times. Gus, who co-hosted this video with Ashley, is a little bit more serious, or down to Earth, if you like. With a bit of dry humor.
Anyway, obviously, I didn't want to deprive you of your weekly dose of Ashley, so there...
The MCV bit doesn't effect my current opinion at all: what The Know did in that video is use the Ubisoft quote to gather all the third party quotes so far, so most of that has been said LONG before that European meeting took place, including the MCV quote.
The Ubisoft quotes are therefore the only relevant ones at this moment. We haven't heard anything new from the other third parties, but we might in the week to come.
As for EuroGamer: didn't want to count them out completely, the past is the past and just about every site has made mistakes before, so that in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean we have to disregard everything they have to say, but like I have continuously said: there was just too much missing from the picture they painted and now that more and more info is leaning towards DMP and AMD, we can indeed all but confirm that Nvidia will have nothing to do with any final product.
And I don't mind not coming out unscathed: I'm more than happy to also allow you to have your day in the sun so I'll grant you your tablet...
But at the end of that day, we will still end up with and AMD home console and a DMP handheld, no matter what. And what the hell that extra special Nintendo flavor is exactly, that is probably still hidden, so we'll just have to wait and see to find out.
And I did indeed enjoy my day: had a great day out in the sun, together with a couple of good friends and a couple of beers and some live music. And my friend's wife, who in all honesty is a bit too beautiful not to flirt with, which is conflicting with my sense of decency and honorability of not messing with and betraying a friend.
But other than giving her a few well deserved compliments, I completely behaved, because such indecency is obviously beneath me...
If you do watch that SMD video, and maybe decide that the material is too boring for you after a few minutes in, at least fast forward to 5m40s and take a look at all the parties working together with AMD. I won't spoil the surprise for you, but it prompted me to put a comment underneath Dave's video...
@ThanosReXXX Glad you had a good day, I survived mine unscathed.
I'm glad I feel like its soon now. Bought a PS+ card yesterday for $45, day after it went up to $60, so I really need to buy a PS4 now, so I may never own a NX after 18 months of waiting. The more I think about $350 Wii U w/ 3 years of support the more annoyed I get. I'm still buying PS3 games.
@ThanosReXXX Re job posting -
"Benefits: 37 vacation days + national holidays, food compensation, health insurance, game library. "
Did you know must jobs in the US start w/ an average of 10 days vacation. Nobody in the US would believe 37, plus holidays, they would think that ad was a trap for sexual slave pirates.
I know this is 3 years old, but trust me, things haven't changed much.
@ThanosReXXX I think the only person making the connection between no Shield 2 and NX being a hybrid was damo. I like the guy and all, even if he hates me, but that was just a ludicrous connection. I don't think I have enough statistical jargon left in me to write off that one, "spurious relationship" comes to mind, but I think even that would be giving it to much credence.
I don't think Nvidia is done, they were probably just blowing off Shield 2 b/c they want to make the hyrbird. They have 3 systems, handheld, TV home console and a tablet. I think it's a better idea if they make a hybrid fusion system than try to maintain 3 separate ones. That's why they canceled Shield 2, to make a hybrid NX, not b/c of NX. They probably are vain enough to steal Nintnedo's NX idea while they were using the dev kit chips and decided to make a better version themselves.
Or, you know, just make self driving car parts and get out of making gaming devices. Whatever the reason, it had nothing to do w/ NX.
I still think this week has a good chance for the reveal as there is nothing else going on after EGX this weekend that I am aware of. Announce it Monday or Tuesday, show the ND Wed or Thursday. 48 hours notice is all we get.
For Wii U they showed some stuff at E3, had their own show in NY in Sept '12 to announce the date and price and show the games off some more.
I could see them doing a quick NX reveal ND this week - no date, no price, the suffering continues - and then announcing a hands on show afterwards, maybe at CES or to coincide w/ it in January. (Yes, I know, I have an irrational CES fixation, but that's where the casuals are.) So even if we get an ND this week or in Oct, I don't think it will have everything, maybe half. then we can all ponder launch delays and price.
@ThanosReXXX Oh man, I'm 4 minutes into that SMD vid, I forgot you told me to skip ahead to the 5 minute mark, it's some serious zzzzzzzz's
I'll try to stay awake to listen to the rest while I catch up on email. I'm still expecting to find your email in there somewhere.
Needs more Benny Hill theme song.
Oh man, 8 minutes in, finally. That entire 12 minute should have been 48 seconds, not counting theme music - Nvida calls it this, AMD calls it this, Nintendo job posting requires AMD knowledge. The end. Which I'll grant as plausible, very high likelihood, but it didn't say "AMD" chips, that would have been nice.
@ThanosReXXX Oops, forget this.
@rjejr "Nobody in the US would believe 37"
I'm not quite sure if I read you right, but are you saying that the job application isn't genuine?
And if they don't believe it, they should come work in the Netherlands: when I was still working for other people, I had at least 24 days, and I could also build up extra days, in general 1 day a month, making a total of 36 days. Only 1 day shy of 37, but still...
Look at you, coming up with the fancy schmancy words again...
And Damo may have been the only one here coming to the Shield 2 cancelled = hybrid conclusion, but I saw people coming to the same conclusion on various other sites and YouTube channels, so he was far from the only one to think that.
To be honest, if I thought that it would indeed be Nvidia that would provide the SoC for Nintendo, then it might even have had some validity. But I just don't believe that Nvidia is in.
And I don't believe they're done either, at least not in general. They're simply too big in the PC world to ever be done, unless they start to mismanage the whole company...
But they are done with Nintendo, other than possibly having once again provided hardware for the dev kits, so I don't think they cancelled Shield 2 because they wanted to make the hybrid.
As far as I am concerned, there is no Nvidia hybrid, so that story is done and dusted.
Have you already made up your own mind yet? You even seem to be fighting yourself on whether or not it's going to be a hybrid...
And although I agree on the coming week being a good time for the reveal, I honestly don't know anymore when it's going to be. All the rumored dates have come and gone, and new ones are simply taking their place, which is why we are now presented with a possible reveal between the 25th and the 27th or in the first week of October. I'm just going to sit back, relax and let it happen. Not having much of an appetite anymore for doing my own guesswork on that particular topic...
As for the SMD video: I had a feeling you would think it'd be a snooze fest, which is why I emphasized the 5m40s mark. But not for listening, but for looking at the pretty pictures and coming to the only logical conclusion that you can draw from them.
And because I wanted you to see for yourself, I wasn't (and am still not) going to spoil your fun.
Let me know if you have found (or miss) my email. I'll send it again otherwise.
Oh, and the world needs more Benny Hill in general, so no argument there...
@ThanosReXXX "You even seem to be fighting yourself on whether or not it's going to be a hybrid.."
When I have I not been fighting? I think I told you about a month ago I was 80-20 hybrid, then about a week or 2 ago I said 50-50 and it's been 50-50 ever since. All I've been trying to do is fit the 2 disparate sides into 1 puzzle, which I'm not sure if it's possible. But I try anyway, b/c it makes more sense for me for all smoke to lead to fire rather than half the smoke does, half the smoke doesn't. So it cold be a home console running on AMD, and a handheld on DMP, but if the handheld has tv out then it's still a hyrbid, whether or not there is a home, and if they both play the same carts then everyone is happy, and i they both play 3DS carts then I'm, happy.
@rjejr Okay, I get the thing with misspelling Nintendo, but "hyrbid"?
And a handheld with TV out is DEFINITELY not a hybrid, that's just a handheld whose screen you can display on the big screen...
A true hybrid should FULLY encompass everything that both a handheld and a home console can do, and a simple cable to connect it to the TV doesn't qualify. That would also make your smart device or your laptop a hybrid, seeing as you can also connect these to the TV via a TV out port...
But all joking aside, what I think we're looking at here should be labeled a synergy, a word I already used in another comment yesterday. It fits with the descriptions in the patents, in the financial reports, and it even fits in with a lot of rumors.
Multiple devices working together seamlessly within the same ecosystem and on the same Operating System. Co-existing and cooperating, but NOT performing or taking over each others tasks.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. And I have always loved that word and the meaning of it.
I just hope Ubisoft is right... I want to see the NX to well more then anything else.
@ThanosReXXX "A true hybrid should FULLY encompass everything that both a handheld and a home console can do"
You mean like play DVD discs? Or game discs? The 2 biggest selling "home consoles" on the market right now are PS4 and X1. If Nintendo wants to call NX a "Home" console, which is defined by those 2, then wouldn't it need a disc drive? Otherwise isn't it just a set-top box?
You seem to want a lot of things in NX, and not want a lot of things in NX, have you ever actually thought about how all of that works in a coherent fashion? What it costs, how it's marketed, how it's perceived by the public? All of that together, not just the hardware. Synergy is a nice word, but I'm all about the nitty gritty. Which isn't a nice word, or maybe even real words, but I do sweat the details.
And yeah, I don't know what's up w/ hybrid, I'm not sure how much of that is my brain and how much of it is my typing. I mean, I know how to spell it hybrid, but I'm not sure why it keeps coming out so wrong. And I have noticed and even tough about it before, but I have no answers for you.
@rjejr No, no, no and no, to the first
threefour questions. A game console playing DVD's/Blu-rays isn't a hybrid, but convergence. BIG difference.
Hybrid is where the two functions are interchangeable and virtually impossible to distinguish the difference, safe from some tiny details.
And synergy isn't a nice word, it's a GREAT word, because it pinpoints EXACTLY what mr. Iwata was on about. Console and handheld like brothers in a family of systems, not merging architecture to make just one device but merging platforms/OS to share between devices etcetera, etcetera...
And everything I wanted and predicted for NX is extremely feasible both from a technical and a business standpoint, sales & marketing included.
I have thought about it long and hard, and dissected every possibility and those are the conclusions I've come to, based upon several factors, not the least of which my own research and that talk with that developer, so it's not like I'm coming up with all kinds of impossibilities...
And talking about ugly words: set-top box is in my top 3. It sounds empty, flimsy, disposable and cheap.
Not a single one of these words would I attach to a quality product such as the ones that Nintendo always releases, regardless of the outcome of those releases.
@rjejr And the home console is defined by Nintendo, since they are pretty much synonymous with the industry itself, contrary to the other two, who only have branches in gaming, but they aren't gaming itself, that's only Nintendo. Something is never defined by what comes after that which has already defined it. And screw perception of the sheeple. Facts, my friend, are all that count...
Microsoft is primarily Windows, and Sony is primarily movies and music. And insurances, but that is only truly big in their home territory.
@ThanosReXXX "to a quality product such as the ones that Nintendo always releases"
Do you think the 2DS is a quality product? It plays 3D games in 2D, and it has a mono speaker. And compared to the New 3DS it doesn't even have a C-stick nub, extra shoulder buttons or NFC.
And the Gamepad is usable, but that's about as far as I'd go. Vita has a slightly smaller screen but a much sleeker look. I'd say Vita is a quality product weighed down by overly expensive memory cards and a lack of 1st party games.
"And screw perception of the sheeple"
But there are a lot more sheeple than there are educated folk, it's really the sheeple who decide what is and what is a home game console. Not Sony, not Ms, not Nintendo, the general public decides. Well in the free world, in China and Russia the govt decides, but thats a whole other story.
@rjejr Oh, even though I don't like Sony, I won't deny that they also make quality products, but Sony wasn't the topic, so it isn't really relevant to the discussion. And the 2DS is a response to the demand for a "safe alternative" to the children's eyes-destroying 3DS and lazy parents that want to go on the cheap, so it is specifically meant as a budget product, but it is still quite a sturdy build.
But if I had children, I'd just buy them a 3DS and tell them to switch the 3D off...
"it's really the sheeple who decide what is"
Now what is that word that "Rug Mug" kept using against "over-the-Hillary"? Oh yeah, wrong!
It's actually people like me who decide what the sheeple like, because we marketing professionals know how the public reacts and thus know exactly how to play them to get them to accept and buy the stuff that WE want them to.
Which is also why to people like me, the Wii U's marketing campaign was so unbelievably bad. Almost as if they didn't have anyone responsible for marketing at all back then...
Free will is an illusion, also invented by marketing professionals...
@ThanosReXXX "Almost as if they didn't have anyone responsible for marketing at all back then..."
Well that's something we can certainly agree on.
I think people have free will, they just choose to follow b/c it's easier. What I don't think people know is what they want. People say they want choices, but they don't. See Wii U Basic and Deluxe sitting on store shelves, in part b/c people can't make up their minds if Nintendo Land is worth an extra $50 or if Wii U is worth $299 w/o a game at all, and only 8GB of storage. By the time Basic was pulled it was already too late.
I do think Sony will do better w/ Slim and Pro b/c I think the $100 difference is more obvious, cheap people buy cheap, people who want the best will buy Pro. Plus it's already sold 43 mil or so, I think if it launched w/ Slim and Pro they might have run into similar problems though not as devastating, they spend way more on marketing.
Which is one of my concerns w/ NX Home and Away if they launch at the same time and both play the same games at about the same price. Will people be hesitant to pick one and buy neither? NX Home in March for $299, Away in November for $199 is different from both in March for $249. Or even Home $299, Away $249 in March.
So, w/o going into the minute details, what is your plan, how do you see it playing out? Fill in the blanks
Home in for $
Away in for $
How do they convince people to buy both? Away may be easy, but what about Home? Is there BC? W/ which system, Wii U or 3DS? They both take carts, that's easy enough, some type of storage, more in the Home. Do they work together for Spaltoon 2 and SMM2:The One With Slopes? Or maybe even for 3DS games?
I'm getting a PS4 for Christmas, almost 100%, already bought my $45 PS+ yearly subscription card. So sell me a Home. Or sell my kids an Away, that's probably easier, they'll buy 1 anyway as long as it's under $200.
@rjejr "What I don't think people know is what they want. People say they want choices, but they don't. See Wii U Basic and Deluxe sitting on store shelves"
True, people in general do indeed not know what they want, which is why they look for outside sources, like commercials, marketing and even friends and family to tell them.
Most people are far too socially inclined and/or society focused to truly be making their own choices, but in all honesty, unless you liked that color, then the 8GB never really seemed like a real choice to me. If I had the money (and the time) back then, then I would also have gone for the black one. But that's all water under the bridge now...
As for your questions, I'm gonna take an educated guess and when I do, I come up with the following:
Home in for $399, Away in for $199. The price for Home may seem steep, but besides the cost of the consoles more than capable guts, I am also going to have to take into account a streaming controller, that probably has a 720p HD screen and I am indeed also expecting them to have finally accepted that in this day and age, you just can't give us a console without a hard drive anymore, so I'm thinking AT LEAST 250GB, maybe even SSD, because we're still talking about Nintendo here, so 500GB would probably be pushing it...
But even though that looks like a bad thing, the HDD will only be necessary for extra downloads like patches and DLC, because you won't have to install any games because of them running straight off the cartridges.
"How do they convince people to buy both? Away may be easy, but what about Home?"
I suppose you think Away is easier because of the lower price and because handhelds are still selling relatively well, but if people will see that this Nintendo console is actually miles better than the Wii U, then they will at the very least be more interested and if the subsequent marketing campaigns do their work, then I'm pretty sure that a lot of people will get an NX as a second console, or even as a third, for the people who already got the other two.
As for convincing people to buy both, why do people buy a Wii U and a 3DS now? The same will count for the NX Home and Away, but even more so because of the intricate connectivity, and if you have a family like yours, then you will have the Home with its streaming controller, and for example one handheld at first, but across these three systems, you could still share the same games in and around the house, and also play together.
And that takes away the immediate need of having to buy both your kids a handheld at first (even though they might want to, but that's another topic), so you can do that at a later time, for example if their birthdays are a couple of months apart. Then the first one gets the first handheld, and the other one gets to use the streaming controller for a while until his birthday arrives.
Another reason to have both is because of battery life. A dedicated handheld will have a better battery life than a streaming controller, and even if they're the same, then the handheld still wins, because streaming takes up more power, so it drains the battery faster.
I believe I already mentioned different games in a previous thread, so the controller can only stream/play the games that are actually either inserted in your console or can play online games that are connected to your NNID/MyNintendo account.
I'm suspecting there to be some kind of system that registers your purchases and then ties those to your account, meaning that you can still play multiple games even when you connect to the cloud instead of directly to your console.
The online playable games will run on the servers that DeNA will supply to Nintendo. Now the handheld cannot stream from the console, but it can also play the online games, and of course it's own cartridges when offline.
"Is there BC? W/ which system, Wii U or 3DS?"
Yes, that is what I am expecting. Remember Iwata saying "we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately"?
Well, that to me means that it will either have a system on a chip connected to the motherboard of the NX home, or the system can emulate the Wii U, OR Wii U games are recoded, so that they can run natively on NX, and that is also where the streaming controller comes in: to make playing these Wii U originals as faithful to the actual experience as possible.
But recoding would mean that the games would either have to be digital only, or re-releases on cartridge. Maybe they could even have some sort of discount system if you already own the game on Wii U. But I do expect these re-releases to be cheaper than NX games, so they will cost less to begin with.
I know you already brought up the point of DS games on Wii U in another thread, so it could be that backward compatibility is evenly spread across both Home and Away, but I'm still more inclined to believe that 3DS will be specifically for the handheld, and Wii U for both, seeing as that can be streamed and/or downloaded. Another reason for the 3DS games on handheld only could be that the handheld will once again have an actual 3D screen, which your TV could obviously not.
And yeah, there's also an ugly brick called 2DS, so it's not an obligatory function to have, but I'm betting that a lot of current 3DS owners that would buy an NX handheld, would certainly prefer that handheld to be able to emulate ALL the 3DS's functions, including 3D gaming.
"Do they work together for Spaltoon 2 and SMM2:The One With Slopes? Or maybe even for 3DS games?"
Yes again, like I already mentioned in the beginning. Remember my now favorite word synergy? That is what this inter-connectivity between Home, Away and streaming controller mean to me. Both handheld and controller can be used as controllers or second screens with the console for multiplayer.
And heck, we can even throw in smart devices, again because of Nintendo's collaboration with DeNA.
Smart devices could be used for watching and recording live play, chatting, mini-games (maybe even streamed from the cartridge in the Home console, where the cartridge could contain a specific Android folder with a game for smart devices as a bonus, for example with pre-orders) and direct online assistance with your games or additional purchases without having to exit the game on your console.
Well, I think I got it all, but I'm sure you'll let me know if I missed anything. For now it's time for me to go night-night...
@ThanosReXXX I can see a $399 Home NX, but I can't see more than 5 or 6 million people buying one. Is that enough for them to make one?
You are describing a Wii U 2, thats the reception and the perception. Which didn't sell at $299 or $349. How is it going to sell at $399? Because of all the good will from all of the great game support on Wii U? Everybody knows Nintendo left Wii U to die after only 3 years to move their games to 3DS and NX. It isn't going to sell on its multimedia capabilities b/c it doesn't have a disc drive. So you have a console that is $100 more than Slim and X1S, which also has an ultra bluray drive, and can't play discs. And no matter how much more powerful it is, games won't look that much better as multiplats have to work on X1S and Nintendo probably won't go 4k, not enough 4k tvs.
So when I said I see it, I really don't.
Now, you want to go $299 for Home, similar power to X1S and Slim, that's ok. Bundle in a normal controller. Sell Game pad 2 separately for $100 as a streaming device, like I expect Sony to do with PS4 LiveStream. The handheld for $199 I'm on board with.
No matter how good any salesman may be, selling a $399 console in March from Nintendo sounds insane. Have you ever even purchased a Wii U? Do you know what it feels like to spend $350 on a console with about 5 games over 4 years? As the saying goes - fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Now, I do think Nintendo can write off the Wii U owners, there are only 13 million Wii U owners, that's nothing. And half of them will buy NX regardless of price, that's my 5-6 million. So they really are only losing 5-6 million. And there were 100 million Wii owners, 87 million never bought a Wii U. Go after them. And you do that the same way they got them before, cheap console, $249 gets them back. $399 they won't even bother to look at it, it's just a more expensive Wii U.
Appreciate you taking all the time to write that out, but I can't believe even Nintendo Logic could launch a $399 Home console. Maybe both Home and Away in 1 box, $249 for Home, $199 for Away, save $50 on the bundle, but they each have to function independently, not streaming. But that would have to be a very limited bundle, maybe even save it for the holiday.
I know Sony and MS launched at $399 and $499, but MS dropped Kinet and the price right quick, and Sony is Sony, a marketing machine, and MSscrewed up so much it was handed to them. Nobody is handing Nintendo anything, they have to earn it. They aren't earning anything at that price except contempt and fisdain.
Now you may be right, you did all the legwork, Pacther said $399, it all makes sense, including it selling 5-6 million.
Hope you had a good night's sleep, maybe today, #justtellus
@rjejr Well, I'm not comparing it to Wii or Wii U, so to me, their prices and sales results are not relevant, as you might have expected, but I don't want to add that every time.
Going after the Wii buyers would be a HUMONGOUS mistake: you don't want a console that is considerably more powerful and versatile to end up like a dust catcher in the homes of 50 - 60 million soccer moms and grand parents, just because it might have some fun gimmick that everybody can play until the fad runs out, so those are off the list.
The Wii U was a great idea on paper, but the execution was a rather convoluted mess and it became a bit of a laughing stock in the end. Sort of like the little engine that actually really couldn't after all, regardless of some really great first party titles.
But just because the Wii U had a poor value for price, that doesn't mean that any next console coming from Nintendo has to be cheaper to soothe or placate the public. That would almost be like apologizing or even begging: "please buy our console. It's much more powerful than the Wii U, but we'll sell it to you for the price of the Wii, just because we really want you to buy it, so please do. And please also tell your friends that Nintendo has corrected its mistakes... "
Remember: Kimishima said that they weren't going to sell NX at a loss, and were you personally might suspect other people within Nintendo to either twist words or downright lie, I don't think that Kimishima is one of them. That guy makes no jokes and he's dead serious.
He also talked at length about the value proposition of this new system/console and combined with him saying that they are not going to sell at a loss, that just can't end up being anything less than $350 - $399. That just doesn't compute.
And personally, I would be REALLY and pleasantly surprised if it's going to cost $299 or less, because the components they're reportedly going to use already add up to that amount by themselves, and that would actually mean that they WOULD have to sell NX at a loss, because they won't be able to add a profit margin.
Multimedia capabilities also don't matter. Nintendo has NEVER done that, and probably never will. Nintendo Tvii and Netflix on Wii U is the closest they will ever come to it. It truly baffles me why people keep expecting them to do this when they know full well that it's not going to happen.
Nintendo is a videogaming company, not a multimedia company, like the other two very much are. And they have also something to gain there because of their other industries tied into it, especially Sony. And Microsoft more or less follows because it sees Sony as its only real competitor or something, even though both of them always talk quite respectfully about Nintendo. Well, at least nowadays...
And other than movies and music there simply is no good reason to have a disc drive in a console, like I have already explained in a couple of other articles.
Disc drives are relatively slow, prone to damage, noisy, energy inefficient and current consoles only use them to install games and as a means of verification, just to check if you have inserted a genuine copy of a game instead of a pirated one. The games cannot be played from the disc, and this is also because of the disc drive being too slow to push all that data into the processors and GPU fast enough for the game to run smoothly.
Disc drives in both Xbox One and PS4 are capped at 6x speed, while the fastest Bluray drives go almost three times (16x) as fast. So they've even done it on purpose, because they never intended for the drives to be used like in the previous consoles in the first place.
The only good thing about the speeds they use is better reading of the discs, so less chances of errors when installing games.
And you also can't compare NX to Xbox One S or PS4 Slim, who are different versions of the same hardware, so most of the R&D cost has already been made, requiring only slight modifications and a smaller form factor, hence the better price point.
NX is to be compared to the first iterations of these consoles, and so a price point of $350 - $399 is one you can realistically expect, whether you think it's insane or not.
And you also overlooked that NX doesn't have the same "issue" as the other two: there is no NX Pro or NX Scorpio, so games only have to work on one model NX home console, and if that is indeed somewhere in between PS4 and PS4 Pro in power, then developers can fully use that to their benefit, because they don't have to take Xbox or Playstation into account there.
That's like saying that the PC versions of these games also can't look better than the console versions...
And THAT right there could be an incentive for Xbox and Playstation owners to also buy an NX, because games definitely do have the potential to look better on that. And then there will of course be the special gimmick, which will add another layer that the other two won't be able to offer, not even PS4 Pro and Xbox Scorpio...
The only thing I can come up with that is even remotely similar is that they would also need to make the games compatible with NX Away, because the handheld will obviously be less powerful. But I already tackled that problem months ago, by suggesting that all game assets will be on the cartridge, but depending on which device it is inserted in, either all assets or just the medium setting assets will be available. That can be done quite easily with a few lines of code.
Oh, and the streaming controller will more than likely be a pack-in device, so you will not be able to buy that separately.
Well, maybe later you could buy additional ones, to finally make that dual GamePad dream come true, but there will be at least one controller in the bundle when you buy it, because it will be part of the whole experience.
But having said all that, I just want the damn thing to be revealed, so:
And you've probably already seen it, but I've decided to pour all my frustration into something more creative in order to be able to express it in a better way than I used to when I was young, which often included breaking or demolishing stuff. Which only was a very short-lived relief, because most of the times it was followed by regret when I had cooled down again...
@rjejr @Captain_Gonru @aaronsullivan
@ThanosReXXX "And other than movies and music there simply is no good reason to have a disc drive in a console,"
you let out the most important reason and the only 1 that matters to consumers - b/c the other 2 have it for a similar price. I know you don't follow sony but you should. When PS4 Pro didn't have a ultra drive the internet flipped. Not just Sony fans, but mainstream media. Even though nobody owns a 4k tv, and even fwer movies are available on 4k discs, the lack of ultra drive was viewed as Sony's biggest mistake this gen, not for how it would be used, but simply b/c X1S had it. Totally illogical to want or need something that would never be used, but they expected it only b/c MS had it in theirs.
So, if Nintendo wants to come out w/ a $249 cart based console, fine, price prevails, but you can't expect people to not flip out if it's $399 and doesn't have a disc drive. That's not past history, that's current news.
"Kimishima said that they weren't going to sell NX at a loss"
Well, I believe Kimishima, they won't sell at a loss, but I believe he's smart enough to not try and put together a $399 console he knows less than 10 million people will buy. Take a $299 X1S or PS4 Slim, remove the 500GB drive and (ultra) blu-ray drive, that makes it about $199. Add in the $100 Gamepad 2 over WiFi, that gives you PS4/Xbox One power w/ a wireless screen controller for $299, not $399. $299, same as the other 2, but no disc drive is ok b/c of the Gamepad 2. Still might not sell more than 15 million, but that's better than 5 or 6 million.
"Going after the Wii buyers would be a HUMONGOUS mistake"
Almost everything that Ubisoft guy said makes me think they are going after the causal, mistake or not.
"It's a machine that will be easy to use for all gamers." ALL, implying including casuals.
"that doesn't mean that any next console coming from Nintendo has to be cheaper to soothe or placate the public. That would almost be like apologizing or even begging:"
Please understand. It's the Nintendo company motto. And yes, that's exactly what it means if they want to sell more than 5 million Home consoles. First apologize, then beg, it's the only way to bring in anew Nitneod home console against Sony and MS if they want it to sell. Maybe they don't, maybe they'll behappy w/ 5 illion home console sales, but it will never sell much more than that at $399. Nintneod is the nostalgia company. How many $399 Home consoles are they going to sell sitting on a shelf next to a $59 NEX Classic Mini home console w/ 30 Nintendo games pre-installed?
I don't know if you know this, it was years ago, but I've always lamented Nintendo putting the red $99 Wii Mini on US stores shelves right next to the $299 and $349 Wii U. They already had competition from the other 2, then they added more competition form themselves, a $99 bright red Wii w/ MKWii in the box. They will be launching NX right next to $59 NES Classic Mini in the Nintnedo aisle. And $199 3DS. $399 Home NX looks outrageous to most consumers. And probably most gamers as well.
"NX doesn't have the same "issue" as the other two: there is no NX Pro or NX Scorpio,"
No, but you are saying there is a $399 NX Home and $199 NX Away that play most, if not all, of the same games. And you want a SCD that will split the base between those who have it and those who don't. Unless you've come around to my way of thinking, the SCD is the dock/base that upscales the Away games. But I know you haven't liked that idea since day 1. so yes, Slim or Pro, X1S or Scorpio, but Home or Away is a similar situation you can't ignore.
"And THAT right there could be an incentive for Xbox and Playstation owners to also buy an NX"
Well, those gamers might buy an NX, for $199 as a 2nd console, but not at $399. And they aren't switching b/c Xbox owners need Gears of War, Forza and Halo, and PS owners need Uncharted. And they both need games NX will never get like Grand Theft Auto and maybe a FPS like Destiny 2 or Titanfall 2. And that's w/ NX getting CoD, Madden and FIFA, which we don't know if hey will. I know your Youtube rumours say they will, but I don't trust EA.
So you want to sell a $399 Home console, similar in structure to $349 Wii U which failed by including a WiFi Gamepad 2. No disc drives like it's two main competitors have. You don't want the casuals back so no marketing to them. You might, or you might not, get required games like Madden, FIFA and COD, and wishful thinking for Mature hardcore games like Grand Theft Auto.
I don't think the best marketing department in the world, not even Apple and it's legion of drunk of Kool Aid fanatics, could sell that console at that price. It would wind up like Apple TV, which Steve Jobs never cared about and once referred to as "a hobby".
Like Jobs said, I just don't see a viable market for a $399 Home. 10 million tops. More than any product I'll ever sell, but is it worth it to them? If they are going to only sell 10 million, why not just make the $199 handheld and sell another 50 million? 75 million if it has TV out.
That has always been my concern w/ any Nintendo Home at any price, it has to compete w/ Nintnedo handhelds. And now that they play almost all of the same games - SSB, MK, HW, SMM, Pikmin, Yoshi - Home is redundant and superfluous. Redundant and superfluous are a hard sell at $399. Even at $299 I think it would be really tough, but I think it has a snowballs chance at $399.
I think there would be an audible gasp heard round the world if they announced $399 as a Home console price. I know you don't like the past but here are a few related precedents.
Occulus Rift pulls a "Please Understand"
And after that, PSVR looked really good at $399. So $399 can look good, but people always compare prices, they don't read sales materials in a bubble. They also didn't notice for awhile PSVR required another $50 for the camera, and another $50 for a Move controller.
So Nintendo can sell NX Home for $399, but they need to be sneaky about it, sell it for $299 w/ a normal controller, sell the Gamepad 2 separately for $99. If they are going to make a Wii U 2 right, sell it right as well.
@ThanosReXXX We covered that Nintneod NYC story yesterday in the forum. Which you should probably stay out of or you'll probably never leave. You've been warned.
I've been in that store, it isn't very big. They may have a very small few people in there testing out NX, but it isn't big enough for a press event like the one they had in NY in Sept 2012 for Wii U.
Here's a good read from that event talking about Nitneod launching Wii U. I think it's worth your time to read it, sales and marketing professionals mostly, and how NoA has no say in NoJ matters. Reggie always has been, and always will be, a ventriloquist's dummy.
Lets see what they've learned from Wii U for NX.
@rjejr Nice wall of text...
But allow me to correct you on a number of things:
"you let out the most important reason and the only 1 that matters to consumers - b/c the other 2 have it for a similar price. I know you don't follow sony but you should. When PS4 Pro didn't have a ultra drive the internet flipped. Not just Sony fans, but mainstream media. Even though nobody owns a 4k tv, and even fwer movies are available on 4k discs, the lack of ultra drive was viewed as Sony's biggest mistake this gen, not for how it would be used, but simply b/c X1S had it. Totally illogical to want or need something that would never be used, but they expected it only b/c MS had it in theirs."
EXACTLY, they flipped because fierce competitor Microsoft bettered them, while Sony is pretty much the owner of the whole Bluray concept in the first place, together with a few others.
Sony ponies can't stand being stood up and want their useless addons to their console. HD streaming like with Netflix and so on is going to be ever more prevalent and so many sites are constantly predicting the demise of disc-based media when it comes to music and movies, so the argument that it NEEDS to be in there to either be competitive or even worse: to be considered a "real" console, holds absolutely no water at all.
"So, if Nintendo wants to come out w/ a $249 cart based console, fine, price prevails, but you can't expect people to not flip out if it's $399 and doesn't have a disc drive. That's not past history, that's current news."
As above, so below...
"Well, I believe Kimishima, they won't sell at a loss, but I believe he's smart enough to not try and put together a $399 console he knows less than 10 million people will buy. Take a $299 X1S or PS4 Slim, remove the 500GB drive and (ultra) blu-ray drive, that makes it about $199. Add in the $100 Gamepad 2 over WiFi, that gives you PS4/Xbox One power w/ a wireless screen controller for $299, not $399. $299, same as the other 2, but no disc drive is ok b/c of the Gamepad 2. Still might not sell more than 15 million, but that's better than 5 or 6 million."
Your numbers are completely wrong. And please, like I said in the previous comment, compare NX to the original Xbox One and PS4, not to their smaller counterparts, and I already explained why these cost what they will cost. It's an unfair comparison, also from a business perspective.
And you can't just go "well, I'll rip this out and this out and then the outcome will be that it will cost so and so much" it just doesn't work like that.
But I can also do that: take that console with the removed Bluray and hard drive, add a cartridge drive (costs about a third of a Bluray drive) and add flash memory or a SSD for data storage, and seeing as flash memory and SSD's are still relatively expensive (even though they ARE getting cheaper), we're right back at that price point from before you started to rip out components...
However, it also doesn't work like that, and like I said in the previous comment, the components ALONE already make for at LEAST a $249 price tag (even at bulk purchasing prices), but probably more, and then there will need to be a profit margin.
"Almost everything that Ubisoft guy said makes me think they are going after the causal, mistake or not."
Then you are completely misreading him. I'd sooner blame the Pokémon CEO for letting people think that we're going to get another Wii...
It's like PE and SMD64 are saying: there's no way in HELL that Yves Guillemot is THAT enthusiastic about a handheld with detachable controllers that you can connect to your TV. And what exactly then would be the thing that they have learned from their mistakes with the Wii U? To not make a home console? I don't think so.
Agreed on the points about where they put what on the shelves, and I never understood the decidedly gimped Wii Mini either, but if NX is indeed a serious device that they want to market the hell out of, then it won't be sitting on that shelf next to the NES Mini at all. And they did hire some heavy guns to do their marketing this time, so I'm expecting a WHOLE lot more this time in that department. And they pretty much HAVE to...
"No, but you are saying there is a $399 NX Home and $199 NX Away that play most, if not all, of the same games. And you want a SCD that will split the base between those who have it and those who don't. Unless you've come around to my way of thinking, the SCD is the dock/base that upscales the Away games. But I know you haven't liked that idea since day 1. so yes, Slim or Pro, X1S or Scorpio, but Home or Away is a similar situation you can't ignore."
I'll NEVER come around to thinking that the SCD is a dock, because it just doesn't fit with the description in the patent, even if you completely ignore the drawings and just go by the text alone. And the whole being granted and paid for is a VERY strong indicator that it will be made and will function EXACTLY as described.
A dock would have to be made WAY too bulky to be able to contain all the necessary components, and then the patent also speaks of being able to connect multiple SCD's, both online and locally.
How the hell are you going to connect multiple docks together in your home? It's a console, not a LEGO brick...
And NO, it is not a similar situation, because like I said, the necessary files could be on the same cartridge and that will be available for ALL NX gamers, whether they play on a handheld or on the console or on a console + SCD.
Plus the whole SCD idea is also that you can lend your SCD's power to others that don't have one, via the online network linking of said SCD's, so that excuse also doesn't fly.
"Well, those gamers might buy an NX, for $199 as a 2nd console, but not at $399. And they aren't switching b/c Xbox owners need Gears of War, Forza and Halo, and PS owners need Uncharted. And they both need games NX will never get like Grand Theft Auto and maybe a FPS like Destiny 2 or Titanfall 2. And that's w/ NX getting CoD, Madden and FIFA, which we don't know if hey will. I know your Youtube rumours say they will, but I don't trust EA."
But strangely enough, they did buy a non-HD Wii for $249, so a console that is in comparison infinitely more powerful for only $50 - $100 more (I'll grudgingly theorize that they might go crazy and do $299 after all, but ONLY if they manage to get those components for even cheaper than I think they will be able to get them) should be an easy purchase as a second device.
All the games you named are mostly first parties, Nintendo has plenty of those too, so consider that argument turned around on you. And I won't be surprised at ALL if we do get GTA, and there are so many big triple A titles rumored, that some are bound to be true, since they keep popping up. And not because people want to, but because there's actual hints in documents, preorder schedules and so on.
If people can believe in a single rumor from EuroGamer, that hasn't been updated since it first came out, and also hasn't added anything new, even though they promised they would, then there can certainly be a lot of truth to ever returning rumors of all these big games. (watch that PE webcast to hear them destroy that one again)
And with an ex-EA VP of Sales at the helm, I'm also expecting a lot. He may not be working there anymore, but he will still have plenty of contacts and money talks, so if Nintendo brings that and brings the easy to develop for hardware, then it will happen.
There's no wishful thinking here, only my own business sense. It's just companies seeing value and wanting to make money, it's not some magical unicorn running around on a rainbow making miracles happen all of a sudden...
"That has always been my concern w/ any Nintendo Home at any price, it has to compete w/ Nintnedo handhelds. And now that they play almost all of the same games - SSB, MK, HW, SMM, Pikmin, Yoshi - Home is redundant and superfluous. Redundant and superfluous are a hard sell at $399. Even at $299 I think it would be really tough, but I think it has a snowballs chance at $399."
That is a personal concern, I get that, but I just don't see it and as such don't agree. And I already made an entire pitch on why Home and Away both have their distinct values, so sorry to see that this didn't at least make you warm up to the idea a bit more.
And quoting all these articles isn't really helping. Especially the one about the outrage of PS3's price, since people still bought it anyway. People in general just like to complain, sometimes they don't even know why, even about something as insignificant as a hobby... #firstworldproblems
And the audible gasp you will be hearing soon, will be one that is both relief of Nintendo FINALLY revealing NX and also a gasp of true bewilderment and wonder at the imaginative brains at Nintendo and the wonderful new experience they've managed to come up with yet again...
Oh, and PSVR requires a bit more money than you listed. It's a $100 - $150 camera, not $50. And to get the best out of it all, you would need a PS4 Pro, so combine that with the PSVR itself and the camera and the controllers, and you're looking at roughly a $1000. Same apparently goes for Scorpio, so I'm not too worried about NX costing $399 max, with additional streaming controllers probably being around $100, which the SCD will probably also cost, making the total amount of money you need to spend only half of what you'd need with the other two, and instead of the VR goggles, you could even buy an NX handheld and still be on the better end of that comparison...
No, my friend, forget about juggling numbers or sales with me, because you will not be able to catch me on them, or at least not adequately enough to sway me to come to the dark side...
But also credit where credit's due: I actually really like your bundle idea of NX with normal controller and NX with streaming controller, with the minor addition that they should offer these simultaneously, just like Wii U 8GB and 32GB.
Let the people have this choice, and you will see that the Deluxe bundle will be flying off the shelves and the normal controller bundle will soon be feeling like a white, 8GB Wii U hoping to still find someone that is willing to buy it...
@rjejr I considered that NYC meeting to be the equivalent of the European one, so just an office/floor space with both Nintendo representatives and third party representatives talking about reveal, releases and games. I don't think it's about testing out NX and if it's just a meeting or a conference, then you don't need a really big room.
Just an office space big enough to set up a beamer and enough seats to house all the representatives.
I will indeed not go over to that forum: the topic doesn't interest me THAT much, it was just something I came across today, so I thought I'd share it with you guys.
@Captain_Gonru Agreed on the price range, but I already went down a little bit during the course of my wall of text just a few comments above this one.
As for the handheld: yes, streaming in a dedicated handheld would probably be too much. Nvidia Shield did it, but besides streaming triple A PC titles, it only had relatively simple games, very similar to casual Android games. If I think of an NX handheld, then I think of an HD 3DS, with dedicated games.
It could possibly be used as an additional controller and there is probably also some form of the current download play for multiple handhelds using only one cartridge, but that will probably be as close as it will get, or maybe also some similar connection with the console, but only on location, so cartridge in the console and then download the game to the handheld to play with two players or more, if you also have the streaming controller or more handhelds.
@rjejr @Captain_Gonru @aaronsullivan
Anywhere between now and the next 5 hours, there's supposed to be some REAL interesting news shared on HappyNintendoFan's Twitter page, so I'd say take a look from time to time. According to himself, it's about the handheld and home console.
I'd be so excited so see $329, I'm sick of a world based on $50 increments, where's the variety? At least 2DS hit $79, but Wii U at $299 and 3DS XL at $199 are killing me. Drop $20 here, $30 there, keep things fresh and moving down the line. Maybe for a new game release, maybe for a holiday, but keep the retailer flyers announcing sales and price cuts to get shoppers attention.
Though I still think $329 is a bit much, but $279 could work. Both X1S and PS4 Slim will be $279, if not less, MS seems to drop $50 every few months, by the time NX launches. Another reason not to launch in March, after all of those other consoles have sold to people during BF sales. Even $299 could look expensive. Of course that does depend on what's in the box. #justtellus
@ThanosReXXX "No, my friend, forget about juggling numbers or sales with me, because you will not be able to catch me on them, or at least not adequately enough to sway me to come to the dark side... "
But I already did sway you to my side, a few paragraphs above that.
"I'll grudgingly theorize that they might go crazy and do $299 after all, "
It was never about Home and Away vs hybrid for me, it was about $399 vs $299 for a Home console from Nintendo. One might sell just enough, `1 was dead in the water.
"to be considered a "real" console, holds absolutely no water at all."
Well, I don't think it will have a disc drive, so I expect a lot of negative reaction if the price is over $299. Expect a lot of links form me if that's the case. But then again I don't think it will be over $299 either.
"I'd sooner blame the Pokémon CEO for letting people think that we're going to get another Wii..."
Poekmon guy, Ubisoft guy, it's all the same to me. People who seem to think they know what it is saying Nintneod wants to bring the casuals back. Not that I blame the.
"And NO, it is not a similar situation, because like I said, the necessary files could be on the same cartridge and that will be available for ALL NX gamers, whether they play on a handheld or on the console or on a console + SCD."
All PS4 games are supposed ot play on ALL PS4 also, old, Slim, Pro. And I thought you said some NX Home games would NOT play on the Away, so doesn't that make the NX platform more splitting than the others, not less? And confusing.
I'll stop w/ the dock word. Or base. But that handheld will have to charge someplace even if all it does is charge it. Did I ever tell you that one of the things I wanted for PS4 was a conductive top that charged the controller just by placing it on it?
PSVR is $60 MRSP in the US, sorry if you have to pay more over there. And PS4 old and Slim will play PSVR games, no split w/ Pro. Maybe like HWL on old and New 3DS, but technically they'll work. I dont' really see PSVR as a factor. you don't look to the past, I don't look to the future.
I only like the bundle idea if Home and Away are clearly explained as separate functioning consoles and it's only a bundle to save money and play Wii U (downloads) and 3DS games (carts). They can't do a choice between Home w/ normal controller or Home w/ a streaming controller, not at launch. That would be a $100 difference, which I like, accept Nintendo can't handle having either the $299 Home or $399 Home plus Gamepad 2 sitting on shelves. Maybe $199 and $299, but then $199 looks under-powered, $299 looks EXACTLY like a Wii U 2, then neither of them sell. Choice for Nintendo is bad unless it is clearly a money saving bundle of multiple devices. They need to make a certain amount of stock, price it right, and sell it all. $299 Home in March, $199 Away in November.
I don't even know anymore what to do if it's a hybrid. Not even sure how that works. $299 I guess, w/ the upscaling dock you don't want. Cart goes in the handheld, streams to the dock, then to the TV. Maybe it has to be in the dock for extra power, play w/ Wiimote, nunchuck, Pro or original Wii U Gamepad. Still $299 though.
Any day now. #justtellus
@ThanosReXXX Personally, I think NX Home running off of cartridges is a good idea, epscailly if it can play 3DS carts and connect to my Wii U Gamepad for dual screen (talk about backwards compatibility) . But I'm not the only one surprised by Sonys' lack of ultra drive, and it's still making the news.
It's not about the lack of drive, it's about charging $400 for a Home console w/ no disc drive. $299 w/o a disc drive running off of carts looks better considering Nintendo's history w/ carts. $400 for a home console is alot to begin w/.
I do think storage will be an issue w/ the price. I don't see much, opting for external HDD support again. Maybe 64GB as they expect the people to buy carts, b/c buying digital doesn't make any sense if both your Home and Away are going to play the same carts, unless you download to a big SD card that plays in both. But that just sounds like piracy waiting to happen.
@rjejr "But I already did sway you to my side, a few paragraphs above that."
Well no, not exactly. Theorizing means I'll mull it over, think about it, consider the options and possibilities. If these aren't convincing enough in my opinion, then I'll simply discard the idea again, like so many I've wiped off the board.
And I already mentioned conditions: "but ONLY if they manage to get those components for even cheaper than I think they will be able to get them" and that's a BIG if.
"Well, I don't think it will have a disc drive, so I expect a lot of negative reaction if the price is over $299. Expect a lot of links form me if that's the case. But then again I don't think it will be over $299 either."
Well, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, but to me it is no more than logical to at least not be surprised if the NX home console is going to cost $350 or more, simply because it's newer and better hardware than both the Wii and Wii U (and arguably the base models of the other two consoles), so you simply CANNOT expect that to be cheaper or equal in price, it's just not realistic.
Sure, the market matters to some extent, but component cost is leading for establishing a prize and if they do go with AMD, then it will indeed be a derivative of Polaris (we must give credit to SMD64 if that happens), in which case the consumer price range will be somewhere between $149 and $199, and that's for the graphics card alone. Even at bulk purchasing prices, that card or the GPU that's on it, will more than likely still cost around $99.
Then there's the CPU, RAM modules, a network adapter, USB ports, solid state memory modules or an HDD and of course the cartridge drive and the outer casing and other connectors. Combine all that, and that is how I came to that base price of around $249 in component cost alone, and that is WITHOUT the profit margin and without the streaming controller, which I optimistically estimate to be around $100, but if it is a much more advanced version of the Wii U GamePad, well...
In general, profit margins on hardware can range from 10 to 20 percent, but contrary to the IT industry, it is often on the lower side of that scale in the video game industry, because of the need to push consoles into people's homes first to be able to sell their software, so the most profit will be gained from these games, and therefore all three companies are okay with making a smaller profit on their consoles. But nonetheless, there will have to be some profit margin.
And I'll ask you beforehand to NOT spam me with links if I guessed the price right, because I can't stand negativity and all the online whiners, that specifically in the case of Nintendo, will always find something to nag and complain about, so please don't do me that displeasure.
The most recent example is how much complaining there is concerning the less than impressive PS4 Pro. The reveal event was seriously underwhelming, and Microsoft beating them with their hardware and their own Bluray drive sparked some resentment and indignation, but it has all but settled down already, save for a few angry YouTubers and some websites that are a little bit late to the game...
Now, if it would have been Nintendo instead of Sony (or Microsoft for that matter), then people would be moaning about it non stop til the launch of the system...
"And I thought you said some NX Home games would NOT play on the Away"
No, my friend, that's not what I proposed: I have specifically said in more than one thread that the same cartridge can be used in both Home and Away. The ONLY difference is what I also described (AGAIN) in comment #124: "But I already tackled that problem months ago, by suggesting that all game assets will be on the cartridge, but depending on which device it is inserted in, either all assets or just the medium setting assets will be available. That can be done quite easily with a few lines of code."
So in layman's terms: game will play on both, but in full res, all effects switched on when on the home console, and medium settings in the handheld, but still very much the same game.
"I'll stop w/ the dock word. Or base. But that handheld will have to charge someplace even if all it does is charge it. Did I ever tell you that one of the things I wanted for PS4 was a conductive top that charged the controller just by placing it on it?"
It's not so much the dock itself, it's more because it reminds me way too much of the idiotic EuroGamer rumor, to which I keep sarcastically referring as a tablet with a kickstand. And I would truly hate to see that become the next Nintendo console. Talk about DOA...
But as far as charging goes: none of my handhelds have docks, just an adapter to connect it straight to a power outlet, so besides my obvious annoyance with it all, it's also entirely unnecessary.
But I also have one of these conductive chargers (I believe they are called inductive, by the way) for my Xbox 360, and I've never even used it, so it's still in its box. I bought it on sale and thought it would come in handy, but apparently not.
"I only like the bundle idea if Home and Away are clearly explained as separate functioning consoles and it's only a bundle to save money and play Wii U (downloads) and 3DS games (carts). They can't do a choice between Home w/ normal controller or Home w/ a streaming controller, not at launch."
WHAAAAATTT??? So, when I FINALLY agree with you and even compliment you on it, you STILL disagree because I added a minor detail? Man, some people...
But seriously, that depends on the difference in price. If they're smart, then they would add a game to the standard bundle, so that the difference between the two bundles would only be $50 instead of a $100 because of that streaming controller.
And glad that the $199 price point finally does seem to click with you as being too cheap, even ridiculously so for what you're going to get. That would more or less be digging their own grave because of the image that would create with the consumer.
I do think that Wii U games will be downloads, and maybe 3DS games too. Perhaps they can even incorporate the 3D tech into the streaming controllers as well, so not just in the handheld, which was one of the reasons that I thought 3DS BC would be more suited to the NX handheld.
"I don't even know anymore what to do if it's a hybrid. Not even sure how that works. $299 I guess, w/ the upscaling dock you don't want. Cart goes in the handheld, streams to the dock, then to the TV. Maybe it has to be in the dock for extra power, play w/ Wiimote, nunchuck, Pro or original Wii U Gamepad. Still $299 though."
Talk about convoluted...
I would think that in that situation, the game is just displayed on your TV by means of some connector, so no streaming would be necessary, or it would be the reverse of how Wii U works, in which case the cough>dock<cough would only be a receiver/decoder.
But you don't have to worry about what to do if it's a hybrid, because it's not. So what you SHOULD do, is start to stock up on some extra booze, and drink away the possible disappointment of me being completely right, and after that has passed, just go and take your kids and start to immensely enjoy whatever the hell it is that Nintendo has cooked up for us, because I'm pretty sure that you will indeed enjoy it.
"It's not about the lack of drive, it's about charging $400 for a Home console w/ no disc drive. $299 w/o a disc drive running off of carts looks better considering Nintendo's history w/ carts. $400 for a home console is alot to begin w/."
To-may-to, to-mah-to. To me, lack of a drive or having no drive is exactly the same. And taking out a disc drive isn't a difference of $100. Go and buy one in any PC component store and you'll pay $40 max, so purchase price is half that.
And finally, the storage "issue":
Like I said in comment #124, there is no storage issue, unless it's in people's perception and if it is not adequately explained/marketed by Nintendo.
They need to make clear that the games don't need hard drive space because they are already virtually installed on the cartridge, so contrary to current consoles that first need that funny disc to install the game to the hard drive, you just insert the cartridge and without any noticeable loading time, you will be able to go straight into your game.
And all of that is also the reason why NX won't really need a very big hard drive or flash storage module either, because all that you would need to store on the console is patches and DLC and a gamer profile. The game itself is on the cartridge, along with save game slots, so anything from around 128GB will do more than nicely to begin with, and in that storage capacity range, you can get one for as cheap as $40 consumer range price, so if they go with SSD, then I can even imagine them going for a 256GB version.
And the biggest advantages of SSD's over standard HDD's is speed, durability/longevity (no moving parts, less heating), and most have a smaller form factor, so can be fitted in a smaller console as well. And Nintendo likes their small boxes...
@rjejr concerning the games I have to add a little something before I forget: I now understand your confusion/your question, and what I actually DID say is that I wouldn't be surprised if the handheld also had its own dedicated games, besides being able to play home console games. But I never really thought about if these NX handheld games should or would be compatible with the home console.
I guess they would be, in which case the home console would act as a sort of Game Boy Player.
Also looked into that whole PSVR cost thing. According to the site I'll link below, total cost will indeed run into a $1000 for the total package if you don't have a PS4 yet, and without it, it will set you back $500, which is still rather expensive, and PSVR is the least powerful VR goggle of them all, not even on par with the HTC Vive.
And Sony themselves have said that it will work with all models PS4, but the Pro will give a much better experience. More power is needed for that experience, which is also why Microsoft is opting for an even more powerful console, also because of the whole 4K thing.
Now go take a look at that HNF Twitter feed...
A small peek:
@rjejr Wtf? Can't get that picture to display. No idea why. Guess it'll remain a surprise then, until you go and watch it yourself...
@ThanosReXXX I can't recall ever seeing a $40 4k ultra drive. Bluray, yes, but X1S has a 4k ultra drive, which presumably costs more than a standard $40 bluray, which is why PS4 Pro doesn't have one.
And it was the grudgingly part of your comment, not the theorizing, that made you looked swayed.
@rjejr Well, as you know, I know my hardware, and I tell you that there is (a cheap UHD/4K drive). First off, a 4K Ultra drive is just a label, it doesn't actually exist: there's only first, second and third generation Bluray players/drives. The oldest Bluray drives can't read any UHD or 4K Blurays, but most current gen players can definitely read UHD Blurays. Both on PC and console it only needs a software update. Xbox One and PS4 are either slated to receive these or already have them.
The only difference in 4K could be lack of native playback, but the Pro can't do native 4K anyway, not in games, not in movies, so there's also no reason for that 4K drive in that console.
In any case, it will not cost $100 or more, so give or take a bit more expensive, I'd put the 4K drive at $60 - $70 max. There's nothing special about it other than a different laser to accommodate for reading the higher capacity discs.
And the professional media tells us that there really isn't that big of a difference between UHD and 4K, so the later drives should already be compatible with it after the firmware update.
@rjejr Here's free UHD/4K playback software for your PC, if you have a recent Bluray drive in there:
CyberLink PowerDVD 16 Ultra is a good second place alternative...
@Captain_Gonru Sounds like a song lyric. Or a movie quote.
(That's Kimishima, Miyamoto and Reggie up top, Nintendo fans at bottom.)
Maybe we should just go with the oldie but goodie #pleaseunderstand
If it doesn't launch in March they can call it the Nintendo PU. It's multpurpose.
@Captain_Gonru Well, I did say only if it gets delayed out of March, which certainly won't be Iwata's fault. It will be Obama's fault. Or Bush's fault. Depends on who wins in November.
I'm sure they have their Nintendo Logic reasons for not telling us what it is yet - I still like my 6 month timeline - reveal in June at E3, launch in Nov, oh, chips are delayed, launch in March, so reveal 6 months earlier in Oct, that marketing budget only covers 6 months - but w/ all the rumours swirling around they could at least reiterate that it is coming in March. Maybe on Oct 1st put out a tweet - only 6 more months until NX launches!!
They do have another financial briefing Oct 26th for their 2nd quarter - Jul-Sept - so even if they are quiet until then they will have to say what's what at that meeting. that's still a 4 week wait though, ugh
"Nintendo NX Not Ready for Reveal?"
@Captain_Gonru @rjejr https://twitter.com/Happy_Nintendo/status/781596795428364288
@Captain_Gonru @rjejr https://twitter.com/Happy_Nintendo/status/781597992080015360
@rjejr And a special one for you...
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