There's an interesting - or not, depending on your perspective - battle going on between rumours and sources around the Nintendo NX. What do you do when sources with a solid track record directly contradict others that are supposedly 'verified'? Well, you treat them all as rumours, first of all, and then you just strap in for the ride.
The Nintendo NX (graphical) power debate is back. Among the earliest rumours it was pegged at hitting around the Xbox One level (a little under PS4), before rumours around x86 architecture were seemingly 'verified' on the likes of Reddit and NeoGAF. Some speculated whether the NX would actually be a step above the current generation in employing new AMD Polaris technology, which would make it rather powerful and perhaps in the same ballpark as the leaked 'PS4K / Neo'.
Well, now Emily Rogers, who has been correct on leaks in recent times - such as with Paper Mario: Color Splash - says she's spoken to seven sources in the past week and asserted that the NX's graphical capabilities are more in line with the early Xbox One comparisons. In fact, her sources suggest the system is using custom chips.
After speaking to seven different people this week, I can say with confidence that this is false. NX is not using x86 architecture like PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. The NX has special, custom-made chips and the overall design of the hardware is very modern. The chips are industry leading because they are very modern chips, but having modern chips doesn't necessarily mean Nintendo is aiming to create the most powerful hardware on the market. Furthermore, any NX rumors on "Polaris chips" and "Polaris architecture" are all wacky. There's a good reason why those rumors are wacky.
In terms of raw power, numerous sources tell me that NX is much closer to Xbox One than PlayStation 4. Even that might be stretching it a tiny bit. Anyone who is claiming that NX is "two times the power of PS4 GPU" is being misled by their sources. Based on what I've heard, I don't believe the NX will compete directly with PS4 (Neo) / PS4K in raw power.
Of course these are, despite the reasonable track records of some of those concerned, only rumours. Especially when you get such diverse (and supposedly solid) speculation, it's clear that clarity will only come when Nintendo officially reveals the system.
What it does do, of course, is bring back the topic of how much graphical power matters for the NX. Do we want a Nintendo system that - for the first time in generations - is an industry-leading powerhouse, or is an innovative and affordable console the preferred option? Chew that out in the comments below.
With thanks to Benson for the heads up.
[source arcadegirl64.wordpress.com]
Comments 201
What she's saying is pretty much a given, I think she's right, but that reveals almost nothing about NX's power, especially since we don't even know what resolution it's aiming to run.
Waiting for the real NX news, not rumours.
Ahh...the rumors float around again. Until nintendo themselves reveal the console, nobody really knows what it can do and what it will do except nintendo themselves.
However, if the system isn't on par with the current systems, then nintendo will once again fall flat with 3rd parties and have another system that will become a SECOND console for people, which is what nintendo shouldn't want.
I really hope the system is on board with the current ones...they can still make it as powerful without having to up the price and keep it affordable. Even if they take a small sales percentage away from themselves to get the system moving, then so be it...if they lose a little big of money at first, they can easily gain it back with the games...it's all about getting the consumers to buy it and having a strong user base rather than sales at first. The bigger user base, the more money that will come in at the long run. Their IP's alone give them a ton of money...it's a waiting game for March when the system arrives (unless they delay it...which I think will probably happen)...but it's less of a waiting game to see what the console is and how it will run! Let the hype keep going nintendo! You're doing a good job at that right now!!!
Nintendo is always behind, so it wouldn't surprise me if it couldn't match Xbone's graphical power.
@A01 I think Nintendo probably believes specs don't matter as the 3 generations before Wii U could be interpreted in a certain way to give the conclusion that specs don't matter. Look at this:
. N64 - Focused on power and didn't sell particularly well.
. GC - Focused on power and was one of the worst selling Nintendo systems.
. Wii - Very low powered system and was the most successful Nintendo console in existence.
Of course the real problems with N64 and GC were the usage of cartridges and mini-discs respectively instead of normal sized discs competitors used.
Boring!
Power don't make a console,games do.
Can we wait on this no one knows we are making an educated guess.
Wow everyone must have forgot how Sega had more power then snes but snes had better games.wii u just didn't have the games.it does have alot of good games
Nintendo should just make a powerful portable that hooks up to the tv. Their consoles don't do well because they rely on gimmicks instead of power. A portable as powerful as the xbone would be insane.
@slim80 but it dose help
@slim80 Agreed, But you also need Marketing, Excellent deals, Word of mouth, Third Party support ect ect
@Grumblevolcano
PS4 the most powerful system with great games
Xbox one a weaker than the ps4 but a little more powerful than the Wii U.
Wii U the weakest system with little 3rd party and some good 1st party games.
See power dose matter now
True and it seems like Nintendo uses all the power on there games.3rd party dont
Enough with the rumors! I can't take anymore of them!
@Yasume there is still talk xbone one still might be it for them
"Do we want a Nintendo system that - for the first time in generations - is an industry-leading powerhouse, or is an innovative and affordable console the preferred option?"
why not both? also... Ten... More... Months... Of... RUMORS!!!!!
If its a hybrid handheld/console it makes sense to be more like Xbox One... I don't believe Nintendo is making a portable PS4 that would be expensive and unrealistic.
@Lizuka never happen.besides xbone still saying this might be there last console.besides that if if Nintendo did step down.no Mario no zelda no pokemon.they said they would never sale there ips.
@Daldra "A portable as powerful as the xbone would be insane."
That's called a gaming laptop.
@Jamotello Yep And When Nintendo Does Show It Off I Hope IT blows everyone's minds and shuts down most rumors
@liljmoore I do agree with you.i was just being simple.lol
@Lizuka And then people will assume that Nintendo might abandon handhelds as well and will refuse to buy it.
RIP gaming industry.
Nintendo always late and behind when it comes to power ... But Xbox and ps4 will be 3 years and a half old when NX comes on March ... So they have no reason to have low power system ... Low power systems means no 3rd party support and that's why Wii U is dead since we have only 3 games a year from Nintendo that's all ... Anyway i care I play with my Nintendo Wii U because I enjoy Zelda Mario etc ... But if I wanna play other games I go with my xbox one and ps4 ... Better graphics / cheaper games / 6 free games a month and better deals and sales and ofc better account system ( I don't need to buy VC games for 10$ for Wii u and again buy it for my 3ds ... Wtf???)
I want it to play new Zelda, pikmin and Mario games. Also to have GameCube virtual console games. What I'd really really really like to see is wind waker graphics in a link's awakening remake.
@spongebob16 you and me both! I do hope for a handheld with wireless HDMI dongle for optional big screen play. Too bad rumors are all we have for now.
@Kroko I'd be fine if it was laptop shaped with a controller.
Catn believe people are taking this seriously. Emily's track record isn't as good when it comes to hardware from what I hear. In fact these could easily be rough guesses since the specs have not exactly been made public yet. I can easily see a Polaris/Zen type architecture
The NX will be on par with Xbone. Then, in two years we get the NX Neo which will be the real powerhouse.
Emily does not have any access to Nintendo, she writes tons of ideas and some of them become true eventually, just like Patcher. I can't believe NL pays so much attention to her.
About the power debate, I have realised that I spend much more money on games than on hardware, so I want those games to look as nice and sharp as possible, even if that means spending just a bit more on hardware. Wii U price was not that cheaper, to begin with.
I really hope they go for standard architecture, as it'll make 3rd party dev's lives easier (or in many cases, life easier for of the Unity and Unreal engineers on whom so many devs depend).
If it was a mobile chipset in a portable device, then that's make a bit more sense in being close to Xbox one power and not using x86. But in that case, you'd expect ARM, and not "custom" (unless we're talking highly customised ARM)
The fact EA is acting coy on supporting the thing does back this up. But lets be honest, twice as powerful as a PS4 with Nitendo making profit on each console would be a £500 price point. I'm guessing Ninty plan for a £229 to £329 price launch.
Plus I get the feeling the console will be aimed at the family market currently using tablets, and not a bunch of COD players who refuse to buy a console with brigh graphics on it. I'm betting Nintendo will use it's Wii U and 3DS development teams to produce twice as many games as the Wii U and hopefully draw a userbase that will draw 3rd party support.
I'm not saying it'll work, but it seems a very Nintendo type plan.
Lol whut.
It can still be x86 AND highly customized. Is this just a fancy way of saying that it'll just be a PowerPC again?
@Grumblevolcano
The Wii U proved the whole "weakest system wins" myth to be false though. Whether a console sells better than its competitors are completely based on other factors.
I just care about the power if it means the NX lacks games. That cannot happen for the 5th time in a row (since the N64).
Does anyone remember the patent leak with the additional processing unit that piggy backs onto the NX... supposedly. I am not worried about the NX. It will have enough oompf.
The rumor of the NX being x86 was closely related with the "easy to port games to it", and with it, "better chance at 3rd Party support", so this worries me.
An expensive console with enough power to get support from the likes of Bethesda. That would be preferable any day over an "affordable" console. I think we have seen enough of those from Nintendo.
Emily Rogers seems to be quite a reputable leaker. I trust what she says, and I especially hope they're true (such as NX getting Smash Bros., Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Zelda and a Retro Studios game in the first year), but she also said that Zelda's going to have voice acting, which I don't like the sound of.
Less powerful than the PS4 update? Okay, sure. Less powerful than the current PS4? Nintendo... Nintendo...
Nintendo.
NINTENDO.
Please stop reporting on rumors, unless its about Alex in the kitchen.
So I guess this won't get any third-party support either. :/
Outside of Paper Mario coming to the Wii U, I'm not entirely sure what Emily Rogers has correctly rumoured? Can someone fill me in?
@NintendoFan990 @Gorlokk
I own an Xbox One. I own a PS4. There is virtually no difference aside from slight resolution or frame rate disparities. I'm playing Uncharted 4 and it looks great. But Quantum Break and Rise of the Tomb Raider look almost just as good. And both systems get almost all the same games.
Having "more power than PS4" is a bragging rights issue. Let the fanboys bicker over that one.
What matters is that it's in the ballpark of (at the minimum) the lowest common denominator that games are still ported to, which is the Xbox One. And that it's not so different it costs a lot of money to port.
Getting games is the priority. But keep in mind- in order for those games to keep coming, people have to actually buy them. Unlike Wii U where fans dug up some petty reason to skip almost every single one.
@MarioFanatic64 "that Zelda's going to have voice acting, which I don't like the sound of."
Pun intended?
And here we go again: once again on the merry-go-round... pfff...
Nintendo should come out and talk, already. My guess is still that they will reveal something not too long after this year's E3, so we can put all these crazy rumors to rest.
And all the people moaning and whining about it not going to be powerful enough seem to be forgetting the most important point: as long as the new system can handle and support the latest game engines, then it'll be just fine. And Nvidia would use Tegra chips and Shield technology for streaming, and both are quite capable pieces of hardware, and could bridge the gap between console and handheld.
Some more info and speculation here:
http://67.227.255.239/forum/showthread.php?t=1218933
And if this is going to be a handheld, then specs near Xbox One is going to be REALLY good. To give you an idea, this clip shows you what the latest Tegra K1 chipset can do on a tablet:
Accompanying article for more info for all you tech heads:
https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/06/25/google-io-tegra-aep-gaming/
@AVahne @andrew20 If power is so important why did 3DS trounce Vita?
It's about price, games, marketing, then maybe power. Power really only matters for which system a person buys a game for when they own multiple consoles - buy the game on the console that runs the best.
Wii sold better than 360 and PS3 b/c it was cheaper. 3DS sold better than Vita after it got cheaper and better games.
The power conversation is really a smoke screen for bragging rights among fan boys.
The one place power might matter is 3rd party support. Wii missed out on some games it wasn't powerful enough to handle. Of course it still sold better.
NX power might matter to get AAA 3rd party suppirt, but if Nintendo is planning on going it alone with handheld and home console that play the same games it might do ok. 55m 3DS owners plus 13.5m Wiig U owners would be about 70m, that's enough of an install vase to sell games.
So, whatever we're hearing, it doesn't really sound like it's going to be doing anything in terms of power that would make Microsoft or Sony worry, or fans of those consoles stand up and take notice, which means it really has to be doing something pretty special outside of this.
@JaxonH Hey look, I think we agree again.
@ThanosReXXX And here we are again.
Waits patiently for the Nintendo Space World (or a similar) event
@rjejr
Don't forget about overlap though. I count for both Wii U and 3DS Market. I also own 3 different 3DS systems. Those raw numbers don't perfectly add up.
Kids here don't know what they are talking about. Devs don't care about power. They care about market and audience.
@rjejr Oh man, tell me about it. So many merry-go-rounds they could fill an entire fair ground. Time for some cotton candy, beer, corn dogs and glazed apples on a stick...
@Kirk Well for a handheld, it is going to be plenty powerful if it comes close to or equals Xbox One. Just take a look at the clip and info I posted in comment #55.
Guys, Nintendo will make a console that is only powerful enough for the devs to port their games easily from its competitors consoles to try and attract a lot more sales from the CoD/ Assasins Creed/ Unchartered etc crowd. This will in turn attract more devs and hopefully the cycle will continue.
@rjejr
So many people are worried about it not being more powerful than PS4. Really draws out the people who only care about their own image and having console war ammo.
Hey, you own Swords & Soldiers 2?
Ok, more rumours about NX for start the weekend! What could be better?
°Pro tip: almost anything!
XD
Plot twist: Nintendo is supplying all the rumors to throw everyone of the scent
As long as there's no more party game shovel ware I don't care if it's just 2 Wii Us duct taped together
I have 2 sources that say the NX graphics capability is that somewhere around the SNES! We are going back to the retro age!
@rjejr You're starting to make sense and that's scaring me! Please stop!
Rumors are claiming both NVidia and AMD and both weaker and stronger chipsets both using x86 and not. No one is consistent which means we should honestly ignore all of it
@ThanosReXXX If it's a handheld, I'd certainly agree. If it's not a handheld . . .
I've heard Rumour that Mickey Mouse wears an Emily Rogers wrist watch
Sick of seeing Rumours I honestly don't believe it will be as powerful as current gen I think it will be very powerful mind you slightly above Standard PS4 but will still be lagging behing the PS4 Neo which I have finally decided I'm gong for (as I don't have a PS4 yet) instead of the NX as I have lost total confidence with Nintendo after the Wii U. May buy it down the line if it ends up in the bargain bin if it flops or if it gets 3rd party support on board and does well as unless this happens then I think it will sell even less than the Wii U
@Spoony_Tech LOL finally! Actually, power means nothing any more. Everything in this day and age is very "powerful". Nintendo has to focus on games and indie relations, and (yes) pricing with this system. Not gimmicks and not power. Can it generate revenue for game makers? Will it fit well in the modern age of multi platform, simultaneous development? That is the answer that will make it succesful.
This is why Nintendo shouldn't have decided to wait to announce this thing until five minutes before release.
@Kroko Maybe Nintendo is making a laptop. A laptop is a hybrid, it can connect to the TV and is portable.
Have you guys forgot that NX can do SLI? Daisy chained a few NX together and it will be more powerful than any console out there.
As long as the games are good, power means nothing to me
If either is true that's one impressive leap from the 3DS.
@JaxonH Speaking of Rise of the Tomb Raider, I'm glad Square confirmed a release window for PS4 (holiday 2016) so those who own a PS4 don't miss out on that great 3rd party game.
Um. Didn't she spread the rumour that NX was going to be released this year?
It's not so much POWER as ease of programming and accessibility to developers which counts for a lot more. Honestly the only reason the Wii had some great unique 3rd party exclusives was both due to the hardware (motion and also limitations), and the sheer number of consoles sold,
I'm talking about :
madword, no more heroes, red steel 2, zack & wiki, dead space: extraction, RE Umbrella Chronicles, Sonic Colors, Little King's Story, Trauma Team....
The point is that power isn't everything, but if you don't have accessibility, and/or your console doesn't sell then 3rd parties will not be invested. Look, ports are fine, but when people look back on a console, they will think about all the unique games that made that system shine, not Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Wii U Edition.
Just about anything that could ever been said about a new console has been rumored with the NX.
Though for those who think the NX will be vastly inferior to the PS4. We must be real here, the PS4 isn't as powerful as people make it out to be. The PS3 was considered more powerful by 2006 standards than the PS4 is for 2013 standards, and it's 2016 now. The NX standing up to the PS4 in raw power is totally possible, even for Nintendo. Though we shall see in the upcoming months, hopefully not much longer after E3.
As long as it's easy too port 3rd party games on the system and its got power around the other two it should be ok but if I was Nintendo I would make it more power and closer too the PS4K or the Xbox1.5.
@Haiassai Given Nintendo's E3 setup this year, it's pretty clear the original release date was holiday 2016 and then got moved to March 2017 rather recently before the public announcement.
@AVahne "The Wii U proved the whole "weakest system wins" myth to be false though. Whether a console sells better than its competitors are completely based on other factors."
Very true. Actually, the PS4 is the winner this far, it is just slightly more powerful than Xbox One. But not much, really, they are quite similar, except Xbox One having better CPU and PS4 having faster RAM memory. People tend to think Xbox One is not powerful but it really is, but part of its power was reserved for Kinect and its RAM memory is a mild bottleneck.
There are many factors for a console to be successful: power, price, third party support, exclusive games, controller... The Wii U only has exclusive games, but so do PS4 and Xbox One.
Last generation Wii was a winner for being innovative and trendy, but both Xbox 360 and PS3 did very well. This generation, PS4 is the most appealing console for customers. Microsoft is doing everything they can to improve Xbox One since launch, while Nintendo has done very little for saving Wii U.
I have no idea about what Nintendo is planning, but I know for sure that Emily Rogers does not know either. Hopefully Nintendo has learnt from their mistakes, but I thought so after 3DS launch and I was wrong.
@Grumblevolcano
Rise of the Tomb Raider is just excellent. Really really excellent. I actually thought Uncharted 4 might not even top it. I think it did, ultimately, but RotTR gives it a good run for its money.
So the part I want to know is will it play games, specifically a competent Nintendo game? Nothing else matters much right now.
Whether Emily is in the know or not, this whole rumour mill is starting to do more harm than good by now. E3 should be the place where Nintendo started to give some solid information about NX and dismiss some of the outlandish rumours, instead they decided to flood it with Zelda Wii U, which by the way is also releasing a presumably superior version on that system Nintendo refuses to tell us about. It's maddening.
I don't care, just as long as Nintendo plays their cards right and makes it a success. Personally, I think they should try to exceed the PS4's power, but I also want it to be affordable, so... compromise has to be made
@andrew20
The "Power Matters" argument is valid, but needs to have an important caveat.
Let's take a little trip back to the late '70s, and then walk forward in time to the present day. The Atari 2600 released to significant fanfare, and was easily the best selling console of the 2nd generation. It was also less powerful than both the Intellivision and Colecovision, which were far superior than the 2600 from a graphics, audio, and cpu standpoint. The 3rd generation saw the NES rocket to the top of video game mountain despite being inferior to Master System and Turbografx16 (aka PC Engine). The Mega Drive/Genesis of the 4th generation arguably had a "more powerful" cpu than the SNES, but the difference was largely a product of marketing. The SNES was superior in graphical and audio capabilities. However, both were handily outstripped by the contemporary Neo Geo and CDi, and both easily outsold their more expensive competitors. Around this time we also saw the Game Boy dominate the handheld market despite being technologically inferior in every way to a number of handhelds from Atari, Sega, NEC, and Bandai. Moving to the 5th generation, we saw the N64 outsold 3:1 by the less powerful Playstation. The Gamecube and XBox (combined) only sold one quarter of the units as the PS2, despite both systems boasting superior graphics over the Sony offering. The DS also outsold the more powerful PSP by about 2:1, becoming the 2nd best selling system of all time. And the 7th generation saw the Wii outsell the XBox 360 which in turn outsold the PS3; exactly the opposite as the order of "power". The 3DS is currently outselling the Vita in the 8th generation handheld market by a large amount, as well.
So what we are seeing with the PS4 is very unusual in the console and handheld markets in terms of "most power = best selling". What the best selling consoles of each generation do have in common is "competitive power" combined with heavy 3rd party support. Support of companies like EA, Activision, Ubisoft, or Bethesda is far more important to the NX's success than the raw specs of NX cpu. But on the flipside of that argument, Nintendo can't afford to bring another out-dated lump to the market. It has to be compelling from a capabilities standpoint, or 3rd parties will continue to ignore it, mainstream will continue to mock it, and loyal fans will get disinterested.
@rjejr
Agree with you and @JaxonH on power being just one factor.
I'm simultaneously excited and concerned with this possibility. But I knew I would be. Either way there is this trade off between backwards compatibility and having an environment friendly to 3rd parties.
Here is my somewhat unrealistic hope if this pans out: Whatever non-x86 chips are used, Nintendo has worked hard to create a new development platform on top of the hardware architecture that makes it more similar and familiar to 3rd parties.
For instance, the previous consoles have had a non-standard shader language (for determining how surfaces render) that has been a challenge for third-parties in the past. Maybe Nintendo engineers have provided for them to use the exact same shader programs they use on XB1 and PS4.
That's the key here. It needs to be made easy enough that publishers should be asking themselves "Why wouldn't we port this to the NX?" where the question for the last two generations of Nintendo console hardware has been "Is it worth all the trouble of porting?"
If this can be done, the performance still needs to be close to XB1 to make porting to NX not require optimization backflips.
The real benefit here is that — just maybe — this could mean backwards compatibility. The NX could launch with a few key new Nintendo games, 3rd-party ports with the expectation of more, and all the unique Wii U games that people have only heard about. That would be a compelling launch.
It would mean a second screen, too. It'd be just about too good to be true from my perspective. Might be worth Nintendo waiting until March to get it right.
The downside here is that the different architecture could mean that most 3rd-parties are going to just glance over and say, "nope." Cross-architecture development has grown up quite a bit since the last generation of hardware, though. I have a bit of hope on this. If Nintendo made a deal with Unreal Engine (which has really progressed in that regard) that will cover some AAA games right there.
I'd say there's a 90% chance that Unity engine will also be ready for NX in no time which means many, many indie and eShop games will be ready to transition.
The game dev landscape has changed quite a bit since even the launch of Wii U. So, just maybe my unbridled optimism here isn't too far-fetched.
3 extra years to work on it and still cant make something as powerful as the current gen consoles, wtf are they thinking.
Keep in mind that there's a difference between raw power and real world performances. While raw power could be XB1 level, due to more modern, and therefore more efficient chips, the real world performances can exceed that of PS4.
That being said, the hardware power is completely subject to change. The only thing I'd take from it is the thing not being x86. That I believe completely.
If Nintendo is going with the shared platform with handheld and console form factors, then ARM makes perfect sense. ARM scales up better than x86 scales down. And no, there are absolutely no issues porting between x86 and ARM.
As for the Nvidia Tegra X1 in the handheld rumor, ohhh boy. That'd make for one nice handheld. Give it a 540p screen to go along with it.
@IceClimbers
Good point about not using x86 to cater to the handheld portion of the hardware — whether it's part of the initial console release or comes later as a standalone they are supposed to be compatible at the lowest level.
One thing I'm not understanding: "And no, there are absolutely no issues porting between x86 and ARM." They are completely incompatible architectures. Companies have spent millions of dollars porting OS software between the two. I mean high level compiling of languages where the low level stuff is already done, that will work, but we are talking video games here. If the low-level stuff doesn't work, you've got nothing.
If it is XB1 power that means the console will struggle to output 1080p on some games.
Sorry to say but if that is the case I will
Only buy the NX handheld. Oh and the handheld should be 720p minimum.
Screens are not expensive.
@CreamyDream I'm right there with you, but the problem is the Wii U didn't have enough games. I think people want Nintendo to give in and make a console on par with PS4 graphically or stronger because they are justifiably worried about 3rd party support. I want the system to simply have whatever capabilities most 3rd parties want, because I want to play Zelda and COD/Resident Evil on the same system again ughhh
@kobashi100
There is no direct proportionality between "power" and resolution, there is way more to it.
@Kroko I completely agree; for 720p/1080p, sure. But 4K, or 1440p? Then power becomes directly proportional to resolution.
Can we please get some info about the NX soon? Dear god, Emily Rogers is starting to really annoy me...
Once again, people are starting to making rumours look real. I mean seriously, if I were you, I would not be reading the so-called "trusted source". I'll wait for Nintendo to give us the official information about NX. Until then, pour a bucket of salt on this article.
We won't know until Nintendo themselves unveil NX - and maybe not even then... I wouldn't be surprised if they never officially announced any specs.
Then again, underpowered hardware and custom-made chips and such are exactly what made Wii U such a bother to develop for, for 3rd parties. :/
@IceClimbers
Agreed. And I've also been thinking about an ARM based system for the WiiU 's successor. However, it seems ARM system struggle to catch up with home consoles, I don't know if they will go very far in term of performance if they decide to go this way. Hopefully, it would make parallel development for the next handheld easier.
But I don't know if people will accept this, as many probably associate ARM with smart devices.
@slim80 Actually every aspect of SNES was more powerful other than processing speed to due to sound and graphical strain. Before, Wii. Nintendo usually had the upper hand in system power.
@peeks Please, eill PS4 fans FINALLY realise, you are NOT getting games for free.
You psy either a monthly or yearly subscription. Thst is not to pay for online gaming or psrty chst, as has been proven msny years ago, it costs basically NOTHING to give you thoee services.
The monry you psy helps Sony pay publidhers an amount of money, so thry csn give you the games. Worse still, you don't even get to choose whst games you get, you are told.
Nintendo does not chsrge for online gaming.
Sorry for bad grammar, typing on my phone whilst on train.
Great...more rumors, that will ultimately be taken as fact...even though Emily's track record isn't exactly all that reliable (and before anyone brings up Paper Mario, 1. That was just a lucky guess. Anyone could've predicted that, and 2. Paper Mario Wii U was rumored for quite some time).
If Nintendo come in with an expensive powerhouse they are done for.
They can't compete with Microsoft and Sony in that department, they had their moment, and it didn't work.
I'd rather they come in with an innovate, original, affordable machine again with great games.
Nintendo has always been about great games, I don't care if the graphics are next gen standards, I just want excellent Nintendo games.
I'm sure that echoes a lot of people's thoughts, and opposes just as many.
The problem with rumors like this is that we dont know where exactly she is getting her info from or how reputable her sources are
@Gorlokk or less powerful the the Xbox 1.5
below Xbox One is most likely, this is post-Gamecube Nintendo we're talking about.
Even if the NX was the most powerful machine on the market, it would still get only ports- and possibly watered-down ones- from the other consoles (not counting exclusives.) So what would be the point? All the games already look identical for PsBox, and actually I don't even see a huge difference compared to the last generation, and no difference at all depending on certain art styles/ mechanics of the games.
Also, a powerful console costs a lot of money for the consumer! This would be a bad move for Nintendo's business obviously.
@IceClimbers 540p
Thats' what I think too, but every time I bring it up people tell me it needs to be 720HD, which I really just don't think will happen on a Ntnodo handheld. 544p (960x544) was fine for Vita, no one complained. Though honestly I think 800x480 to double 3DS (4x the pixels) to make it easy to bring forward old games. NX Home will be at lest 720p, no reason it's lower than Wii U.
@aaronsullivan I did read all of that, but my brain fried around the 5th "if" so I'm too burned out to reply. Well that and this ms my 5th replay - I'm working upside down.
@Spoony_Tech Maybe you're just hung-over on a Saturday morning. And if that's the case, don't look at my new Miifoto.
@ThanosReXXX "cotton candy, beer, corn dogs and glazed apples on a stick"
That can't be a good combination w/ a merry-go-round.
@LordGeovanni Oh man, you're right, that is some super sloppy math on my part. We have three 3DS as well. And probably most of the 55m 3DS owners own a Wii U. So probably closer to 60m if that.
My hope is NX Home and NX Handheld each play the majority of the same games at different resolutions and 5.1 vs stereo sound and Nitneod comes up w/ a few that require both, like FFCC on Gamecube and Gameboys, so there is enough of a draw to sell both well. Even w/o AAA support the 3DS and Wii U library combined is pretty formidable. I think Wii U could have sold better w/ Kid Icarus: Uprising and Luigi's Mansion 2 to help fill in the gaps. Too many gaps. And too much time making SSB, MK, and SM3DW/L on both. And Xenoblade and HWL. 2 consoles, but 1 OS to rule them all.
@JaxonH "Hey, you own Swords & Soldiers 2?"
Yeah, my kid got it for his birthday back in Sept. Wasn't a fan. Every level was it's own thing, no continuity like the first. It was ok, but we were both a little disappointed.
If you got the code in the HNB and are wondering if it's worth playing I'd say no. Shantae is much better, and I hate retro 2D platformers, but this one is good. And if you were going to offer us the code b/c you already had the game, thanks again Uncle Jax, but we're good.
@rjejr
Yeah the combination doesn't work perfect when people forget to realize it but the handheld and console you're combining so the number is not always perfect for the fan base.
As for my hopes. I want a console hybrid handheld that I do not need TV to be required for most games and I want strong Nintendo game everything else would just be nice for me. And I would rather have my E3 used for something other than just Zelda U. I am hyped but not enough to justify only that from Ninty.
Regardless of anything the fact PS4 is ahead of Xbone proves stats on power and resolution sell consoles so why release something that will not even be in the running.
Remember when the SNES came out and Nintendo designed it to beat the Megadrive and added new things like Mode7...bring back those times.
@LordGeovanni I'm still hoping they show more at E3, but only Zelda U is playable. Nindies have become a big part of Wii U, last year they had 8 or 10 downloadable demos, w/ a 15% discount when the games released. Ninteod can't simply abandon all of the indie developers so I am hoping for more downloadable demos and only Zelda U playable at E3. And Paper Mario Color Splash needs a trailer and a release date. It's Paper Mario, it doesn't really need a demo, most of us know what it is.
5 more weeks. I wonder how many rumours between now and then?
@rjejr "That can't be a good combination w/ a merry-go-round. "
Nope, but it does fit in with the theme of being sick of it all...
@rjejr
Ya, I already owned it and most everything else in the bundle. I already played Pirate's curse and it was fantastic. Can't wait for Half Genie Hero, which I funded during kickstarter.
Really don't understand Nintendo not actively competing in the gamerspace. As a secondary console they don't do well, sorry. They need third party support this gen or it'll sell worse than the Wii U. Honestly I'm of mind Nintendo has completely lost it and they don't want to show the NX off because they already know how much worse itll look spec wise compared to the ps4k. I hope I'm wrong but Nintendo has been a disappointment for a while.
My God what emily said was it's VERY modern and has Industry leading chips And that there is most important,so stop with All this child's talk about mines not going to be as power full as yours crap,if your real gamer and it's at Hart's core then it's Games that come out that matter and new ways to experience this.
@CreamyDream There is one big reason to upgrade; games. The power doesn't matter, but games do. Luckily PS4 has some really interesting games as well.
I would side with AMD on this one, not this latest rumormonger. If the NX will have the Polaris architecture for it's GPU, then it most likely will be slightly more powerful than the PS4, and significantly more energy efficient than the XB1. So a decent amount stronger in raw specs than the XB1, since that uses an older generation of architecture, during which time AMD is well known for being behind the times compared to NVIDIA. So NX will be the first true console showcase of Polaris, and AMD's resurgence to compete with NVIDIA again, after almost 4 years of rebranding/updating old hardware.
In addition, NX will operationally have several boons over the XB1 (for example, better media type, thus faster loading times), so it will have a smoother, nicer OS and ease of use (unless Nintendo royally screws up).
I don't think this person has any idea what she's talking about when it comes to Polaris. The AMD press report specifically stated the use of semi custom chips for upcoming consoles, not fully custom. (PS4 and XB1 also use semi custom chips, not fully custom.) This person does not make that crucial distinction. She doesn't sound well versed in the PC hardware sphere, either, using terms like "wacky" instead of making a solid evidence backed case, as is common for those in the know on upcoming hardware. (PC gaming is where Polaris will set the groundwork for the short term future of AMD, not the consoles.) I wouldn't trust her judgment in this area.
Of course, the PS4 Neo will be more powerful than the NX, since it will use a stronger chipset with the Polaris architecture. That's a given. But NX will be the proving grounds. I don't think anyone would complain about being slightly stronger than the PS4. The PS5 isn't coming any time soon.
@Lizuka Having the capabilities to compete and choosing not to are two different things. With all their money and resources, I would assume its the latter.
With that being said, I'm sure next week these rumors will be refuted by more rumors and then so on and so on. We'll probably hear next that it's just a suped up SNES or some other whacked out thing. Till Nintendo finally breaks their silence, we just don't know what to expect
Nintendo is letting all these rumors get out of hand. Some people may be disappointed by the final reveal if it ever happens.
@Daldra that's all I want. A portable with a wireless HDMI dongle. I'd even go for a wired connection with a wireless controller as well.
@KoopaTheGamer only persona 5 and ffxv for me this year, but that's more than only paper Mario color splash on Wii u. I hope for more game announcements soon.
@Nintendian we can only hope!
@PlywoodStick Well, here's hoping that's true. I just watched SuperMetalDave's video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ_4eNnMFFo) that is dismissing this latest Emily Rogers rumor in favor of Polaris, and he makes a very good case of why, but then I went into the comments section underneath that video and some people make some rather good points that a lot of us, including myself, seem to have overlooked, and that is that the NX must have been in development for quite a few years now, so a new chipset isn't a realistic option, because the hardware for the dev kits must have been finalized already, and suddenly changing that now would not be good and actually more or less impossible.
So, unless Polaris was already a thing behind the scenes in 2013/2014, chances are that it is not going to be Polaris and although that doesn't necessarily mean that it is then automatically going to be Nvidia's Tegra, that still makes it frustratingly unclear as to what the hell kind of guts the NX is going to have.
@GN004Nadleeh Nintendo will probably never be able to win again in the eyes of some people, no matter what they do. Even the most positive people are now growing impatient, and people that were already impatient and are already being negative will see to a rise of such high expectations that it will be next to impossible for Nintendo to deliver on them.
I fear it is going to have to be a reveal of such titanic proportions that even either one of the other two parties would struggle to meet the challenge, let alone Nintendo.
All these rumors just emphasizes why I am so disappointed that NX won't be revealed at E3. What is this system really going to be? We still have no idea and the rumor mill is working overtime. I just want Nintendo to show us what it is, so I can quit wondering.
@rjejr 540p for a handheld realeased 5 years ago was reasonable. Releasing a handheld now with a 540p screen resolution would be pretty shoddy.
Sorry but cheap Chinese phones which sell for under £100 are popping out 1080p screens. The technology is not expensive.
A 720p handheld really should be the bare minimum.
@ThanosReXXX "but it does fit in with the theme of being sick of it all...
@GN004Nadleeh
Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE. If you're hyped for Persona 5 (as I am) then this should be on your radar.
Also, Star Ocean V: Integrity & Faithfulness. Sound like an RPG guy. This one may be one to watch as well.
The NX has to at least match the competition, anything less and it will fail.
@ThanosReXXX Yes, Polaris was under wraps being developed back in 2014 (maybe 2013 for planning, but definitely 2014 to compete against NVIDIA's upcoming Pascal architecture), and was only just revealed to the press in Q4 2015. It may be delayed again in the graphics space until Q3 or Q4 2016 for release, according to reports that hit a couple days ago, possibly even missing this year's Computex showcase. The NX is also being delayed by a few months. Hmmm... Coincidence? I wonder.
Also, AMD now has a lock on all of the console manufacturers, scoring a major coup against NVIDIA. I don't think we will see Tegra hardware in the NX, not even for the mobile device. Especially not if it's just a mobile device which communicates with a main box. Whatever Nintendo does next in the handheld space, it seems that they will be using either an AMD APU, or a separate partner, as with the Pica chips in the 3DS. Probably the latter. And of course, an updated ARM system on chip for the CPU.
@rjejr Bows and tips hat in reference to the other grumpy old man on NLife...
@kobashi100 Ah, I didn't it again and only wrote half of my thinking didn't I.
800x480 top screen, 640x480 bottom screen
Now if Nintnedo makes the NX handheld like the 2DS - 1 big screen w/ a back piece of plastic cutting it in half, then yes, 1 screen can be 720p, or even 1080p. But since I can't imagine Ntinedo going back to 1 screen again after DS and 3DS then I don't think they can pull off 2 screens with 1 having 720p.
How many of those cheap Chinese phones have 2 screens? Even Vita only had 1. You are asking a lot of handheld hardware to run 2 different screens at once, that's why 1 of them probably won't be 1080p. 1 screen and it can be, like most 1 screen devices.
I'd prefer 1 screen myself, showing 2 screen only when neccassary. That way the 1 screen can be 1080p when it is being used as 1 screen, but when it's used as 2 screens, neither will be 1080p.
When yourun Mario Kart 8 on your TV single player it's 1080p, but mutliplayer split screen not every person sees 1080p. Same idea on a handheld.
If the NX has power enough to run games smoothly with little power consumption it means they can make a moderately priced system that can compete with its rivals.
At that point its simply a matter of games. Given the merge of the console and handheld divisions and coupled with Nintendo's courting of 3rd party devs I think we will be set in this regard.
@JaxonH Dying to play Persona 5. It looks brilliant! #FE and FFXV will keep me amused in the meantime.
I'm still of the opinion that if the NX is to be portable or to come in multiple form factors then it makes the most sense for Nintendo to use ARM chips. It would be much easier to port code between a home console and a portable if they run on similar hardware and instruction sets.
Plus, Nintendo have been using ARM in their handhelds since the GBA, I can't see them changing now, especially now that ARM is the de facto standard in the mobile space.
Still, all things considered, Tegra could be interesting. It has the low power consumption and high yield that could make a killer handheld. In my previous comment (#55) I showed a clip of the older Tegra K1, but according to some tech heads on NeoGAF that is too old, so if it is going to be NVIDIA then it would more likely be the X1, a demo of which can be seen at NVIDIA's 2015 presentation to introduce that technology.
The real-time rendered game demo starts around the 6min43sec mark for those of you that want to skip the tech stuff:
EDIT:
And a couple of pages further into the NeoGAF topic on this, they are saying "no, X1 is old news already too, it's going to be Pascal".
Man, these techophiles are killing me...
@rjejr I get your point yes. I am hoping the NX handheld goes back to one screen like the GBA. I can live without backwards compatibility. The clam shell has been cool but would prefer one screen again.
@Project_Dolphin Even worse than the shovelware rampant during the NES days?
If it's between the PS4 and XB1 in power, that will be enough power for multiplats that are still hitting the PS4 and XBone to come to the NX.
That will be enough to qualify as being on par and "competing" with the other two.
And that's exactly what it needs.
@ThanosReXXX Yeah, the X1 is already old hat too, it's just NVIDIA Shield fodder. Pascal will blow it out of the water. But it will also be very expensive, mostly targeting high end devices. (Such as updated NVIDIA Shields, and $500+ devices and graphics cards) Whereas Polaris is targeting the mainstream and mid range markets, while also seeking to grow the potential for affordable VR. So Pascal definitely isn't happening on a Nintendo system. Maybe it could appear in a new XB1 model to compete with PS4 Neo, if Microsoft jumps ship from AMD.
I've never been a performance-uber-alles kind of person, but please Nintendo: BRING THE HEAT! Console gaming is a premium market. That fun (enough) and affordable market is dominated by smartphones.
They can't go the Gunpei Yokoi route anymore. It was admirable and often very profitable, but they need to compete (and win) on the spec sheet if they want anyone's attention outside the Nintendo Faith-Militant.
@A01 Nvidia makes the most expensive mobile chips. No way nintendo would use them. The 3DS uses a chip made by a virtually unkown GPU manufacturer, probably cause they were the cheapest.
@goonow The 3DS used Nvidia for quite sometime actually, but Nintendo was forced to drop them last minute because Nvidia couldn't deliver on the chips.
@PlywoodStick I was kinda just kidding/being sarcastic. I know expensive tech is not going into a Nintendo device.
But my patience is by now WAY past wearing thin, like @rjejr's probably is too, so it is hard not to be a little sarcastic, let alone say something serious about NX.
They better come up with some info after the E3 fast, because we've been waiting for far too long now, and all this silence and crazy rumor stuff isn't exactly adding to the experience.
At least not in a good way...
If this is true...NX is done. Just saying, three systems where the tech is lagging ain't gonna cut it.
The PS4 while the most powerful console isn't powerful, the Neo update isn't that much if the rumors are true. As consoles continue to become nothing more than "affordable gaming PCs" this becomes all the more obvious.
Maybe programmers should start trying to ger the most out of the systems like the end of the PS3, Xbox 360 life cycle instead of being stupid enough to ever think consoles will be powerhouses.
If this is the way it continues say goodbye to everything but mobile and PC games.
This is the worst thing about the Wii U coming to an end so soon, it hasn't been pushed yet.
I don't know how powerful NX will be but it won't be powerfull, even if it has more power than NEO.
@SetupDisk Not really in the land of rumors anymore, as far as the PS4 NEO is concerned. All but officially and publicly confirmed:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-sonys-plan-for-playstation-4k-neo-revealed
@ThanosReXXX It could be that Nintendo will use a powerful custom mobile chip from Nvidia.
Having a hybrid system requires the portable unit to contain the CPU and GPU instead of putting it on the home unit. How can a person play the game outside the house if the processors are on the home console? This is not Wii U where the games are streamed wirelessly to the gamepad, it's a fully portable system like 3DS.
The home unit is probably just a Miracast type of unit that enables the portable system to stream the games to the TV. Maybe it will have some connector ports to add processing units if someone chose not to use the portable system as a controller.
Putting processors in a gamepad is not new, Pico Neo (VR unit) is already doing it:
http://www.picovr.com/en/neo.html
@Nintendian I don't think this is going to be a hybrid system, so your response is a bit puzzling to me.
It is a hybrid:
http://www.lexus.com/models/NX-hybrid
@rjejr
So, where exactly did I say power was the most important thing? All I said was that being the weakest system doesn't guarantee the system being the best selling console of its generation, which a lot of people seem to think. Success depends on many factors.
And honestly, the Vita could've sold extremely well if Sony had put in the effort to actually sell it. The launch of the Vita was very well done, much better than the 3DS's, yet right afterwards they allowed it to drop off and couldn't be bothered to help it. Nintendo on the other hand, rushed back to the drawing board as quickly as they possibly can in order to save their ailing handheld.
To me, I feel both companies motivations for their current gen handhelds were largely influenced by the last generation.
Nintendo had gotten used to huge profits, no matter what they bring out, and needed to please investors more than anyone. The Wii had really great sales, but sales dropped off HARSHLY in its final years and I think the DS was in decline as well (but not as bad as Wii I believe) so Nintendo really needed their newest money maker to actually do its job. When it didn't they needed to fix the situation as quickly and effectively as possible. The things they did are many, though many people LOVE to point out that the games supposedly saved the system. I honestly don't agree with that, as that whole concept did jack squat for the Wii U AND the Vita and I honestly feel the level of game quality on 3DS DOES NOT surpass the Vita's. Again, many factors somehow managed to save the 3DS (though I DO believe it is Nintendo's worst selling handheld ever, not counting Virtual Boy).
On Sony's side, the PSP and PS3 both ended up selling quite well and unlike Nintendo's products they both continued selling rather steadily even after their supposed expiry dates. Of course there were caveats such as PS3 taking forever to become a profit and PSP only really continuing to be a good success in Japan, but they continued selling and continued getting games. I think what I'm trying to say is that Sony wasn't quite as desperate as Nintendo to get their newest product flying off store shelves, which is partially why they left the Vita to die a slow, not-actually-lonely death (I say "not-actually" because JP is quite supportive of the Vita).
@andrew20 Xbox 360 is less powerful. PS3 is less powerful. If power was what mattered, then we would have gotten every game that was also on those two systems. And if third parties wanted to support it, some of their games wouldn't use the Xbone's and PS4's power at their limits, but would make it for Wii U and also work on a version on the other two. Power doesn't matter; money does.
If Nintendo wanted to ensure proper third party support they'd make a Windows PC with off the shelf parts and brand it Nintendo NX. The only way Nintendo is going to get serious third party support is to let big publishers dictate to them, which is likely why EA didn't support Wii U very well and is why you probably won't see a big change this time either. Nintendo games sell Nintendo systems; this will be doubly so launching in the middle of their rivals' lifecycle.
To be honest I'm not sure how NX will be a success without being something so innovative it's a "must have" system, but I do know having Mario Kart and the new Call of Duty won't matter.
https://youtu.be/W_xOfxY5n2U
@Grumblevolcano The rumours are bull, including the latest. I predicted Paper Mario Wii U way before 'Emily Rogers' on these very boards.
Those systems are in the past, the Wii is a freak because it reached out to non gamers, it sold spectacularly for 2 years and sales collapsed.
Nintendo need this system to be more powerful than the X1/PS4. The Wii U was destroyed online for its lack of power from all angles through a massive media hate campaign that run for months, Nintendo embarrassingly sat in silence.
With both MS and Sony releasing upgrades we may see the NX out of date, out of touch and stuck at 720p. Resolution was what pushed gamers to the PS4 with its 40% more powerful GPU.
Will 3rd parties be willing to reduce their games details below X1 on a non x86 system? I don't think so.
If all this is true it seems Nintendo have not learned their lesson. The buyers of today are in tune with specs.
@Parkour_LMan Disagree. Power does matter to gamers however, perhaps not ardent Nintendo fanboys. I love Wii U, but it is just about more powerful than the PS3/360.
Both consoles were at the end of their extended life cycles with just one year to the next gen launch, devs were wrapping up on those systems with smaller, less skilled teams working on them.
Nintendo were late to the HD party and failed. Wii U should've been Wii HD with a 2010 launch to bolster flagging Wii sales.
I honestly don't care about the power, I just want to play great games. Heck, I was happy with Wii U so I'm obviously easily pleased!
NX is not using x86 architecture like PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. The NX has special, custom-made chips and the overall design of the hardware is very modern. The chips are industry leading because they are very modern chips, but having modern chips doesn't necessarily mean Nintendo is aiming to create the most powerful hardware on the market.
So, since it won't be any x86 arhitecture, but again PowerPC or someting like ARM type ... Than we can say bye-bye to 3rd Party (big studios) games support from the start.
Well, maybe the indies will save them, who knows?
@opeter except ARM is very easy to port to.
@VanillaLake Ignore the fact that the PS4 has a 40% more powerful GPU and significantly higher bandwidth. Most PS4 games are hitting 900p/1080p with many featuring higher details. X1 720p/900p. The PS4 sold because of this to gamers. Factor in mid cycle upgrades and an underpowered NX will only interest Nintendo gamers.
But while I've said NX needs power parity to compete I also noticed a claim that Nintendo don't want to compete and are aiming for a $150 rrp and it's essentially an upgraded Wii U. I could handle that. I would buy a cheap Wii U upgrade.
@liveswired ;p Buyers of today are obsessed with specs more like. I've never seen this level of obsession in the last 20 years.
Before this kicked in, specs obsession was pretty much the sole domain of PC enthusiasts.
Then again, maybe social media and the internet just multiplied voices that were already there.
@AVahne Really not sure where you got the idea that people think that the weakest system guarantees success. I don't think anyone credible has ever said it guaranteed success - rather, in spite of it, the weakest system still ended up the biggest selling console of each generation.
It's to show that power isn't the most important part of the equation.
makes me think of this:
Warning: nsfw
https://youtu.be/h80c7nFrVzY
@empsolo: maybe. But does it have enough raw power? ARM vs x86?
@CreamyDream Well you should care because 4K screens will become standard soon and 1080p is getting obsolete. That said if Nintendo will again use crappy underpowered firmware then games will look terrible on 4K In other words they will look like 3DS games.
Watch your language - Octane
@opeter I've been arguing the whole NX needs power parity to compete and it does, if Nintendo really wants to entertain 'everyone' we need a system capable of PS4.5 with multimedia playback.
However, it's looking increasingly likely that The NX will be underpowered, by the time MS and Sony release their mid cycle updates we're looking at those systems being 80% more powerful than NX - Nintendo have given up the fight.
Perhaps, what we have is an upgraded and rebranded Wii U released at a low price point, say $150. Is there a market for a budget console lacking in features that Nintendo will take another 4-6 years to update leaving it deserted for the last two?
Knowing Nintendo they'll go Quad Core PPC which is what the Wii U should've had, 4GB RAM, 120GB HDD max. It's a sorry state of affairs that prove Nintendo have learnt nothing from Wii U. The Wii argument doesn't make sense either - it only sold for two years before people lost interest.
@liveswired: if there will be enough interesting games and they will get rid of this Gamepad, it can be a real success.
For 3rd party support, I already given up on Nintendo front ...
I set my standards low for Nintendo since they haven't gotten much right in the past decade or so. I don't care if the NX hardware is comparable to the PS4/Xbox One or not: it just needs to be more powerful than what they usually put in their systems. And seeing as how most people are rocking expensive smartphones, tablets, smartwatches, nice laptops, netbooks, preordered some VR headset, etc., I don't wanna hear any of that "family-friendly pricing" bologna. The NX definitely doesn't need to be PS3 launch price but Nintendo needs to get with the times: no more stone age hardware and archaic tech. My only other wish is simply NO MORE GIMMICKS. If the 'hybrid' rumor is true, fine, have that be your "gimmick" - but no more.
@mantisghost 1080 will still be here for another 10 years. 4K content looks unbelievable downscaled to 1080p - it looks better than on a 4K TV - much the same way PC gamers downscale to run 1080p monitors. Okami on PS3 renders at 2160p before downscaling to 1080p and it looks incredible, not a jaggy in site.
As for 4k - the difference is undetectable standing 6ft away from an 80" screen. People certainly don't need to upgrade from 720p/1080p TVs until they stop working, the most likely place a console sits.
I have a Pioneer KRP600 60" 1080p Plasma in my living room and a 4K 50" Samsung in my dining room - when both sets are on, everyone mistakes my Pioneer for 4K such is the detail it can resolve, incredible colour and black levels, the top of the range 4K Samsung LCD looks cheap and fake side by side. They are shocked to learn that the number of pixels is only a tiny part of the picture quality equation - my Pioneer is a testament to that.
Once you reach 1080HD pixels are meaningless in the living room. If you want quality regardless of resolution you need a high end TV, manufactured from high quality components. 4K has benefits in projection, for example 120"+ and I won't deny 4k monitors are excellent for graphic designers, photographers, illustrators who sit on top of a screen.
Lol. There is no way the NX will be as powerful as she is speculating.
This is Nintendo, beginning with the Wii they sell innovation, not power. They sell the Wii Remote and the GamePad. They sell "the gimmick".
Both power and innovation combined is expensive. Nintendo sides with the innovation and focus less on the power.
Until Nintendo reveals the gimmick, I am not really interested.
@opeter it wouldn't need more power if it's optimized to run AAA more efficiently. Raw power =/= performance power.
@SetupDisk
Even modest power improvements help developers. I mean would you rather developers spend all their time trying to make code efficient or would you want them spending time adding new things to games? I'd rather them spend time making games awesome than just being able to run.
I also think PC gaming is awesome. So if it's all about the games, having a console more PC like isn't all that bad.
They could do well out of being the 'second system'. Very few will buy a Nintendo console over a PlayStation or Xbox now (present company excluded of course, we are clearly in a niche here). But most will buy either an Xbox or a PlayStation, as though both have their own unique qualities and exclusives they're largely the same in terms of capabilities and library so buying both, to most, will be rather pointless. So by becoming the must have 'second system' Nintendo could, in theory, become the best seller if the majority of both the Xbox and PS owners also have an NX. Nintendo will be laughing. Especially if they can sell the system at a profit.
But to do that Nintendo need a really strong line up of first party exclusives, and they can't keep relying on Zelda and Mario spin-offs they need the variety of IPs within those different game plays styles and genres.
@liveswired If you want facts about PS4 and Xbox One technical differences, here you are:
PS4 vs. Xbox One
CPU
PS4
Two 28nm AMD Jaguar x86-64 quad-core (eight cores) 1.6GHz
Xbox One
Two 28nm AMD Jaguar x86-64 quad-core (eight cores) 1.75GHz (+10%)
CPU fact: Xbox One 10% faster.
GPU
PS4
Semi-custom AMD Radeon HD 7870 GCN 800MHz 1,152 shaders processor (+50%)
XboxOne
Semi-custom AMD Radeon HD 7790 GCN 853MHz (+7%) 768 shaders processor
GPU facts: PS4 50% more shaders, Xbox One 7% faster. PS4 has a better GPU processor. GPU difference is significant. Developers need to use super fast Xbox One ESRAM if they want to partially alleviate the difference.
RAM:
PS4
8GB GDDR5 unified system memory 2.75 GHz (5500MHz) with a maximum bandwith of 176 GB/s.
Xbox One
8GB DDR3 (2133MHz) with a maximum bandwith of 68.3GB/s.
+
32MB ESRAM with a maximum bandwith of 102x2=204GB/s in both directions.
RAM facts: PS4 has faster and unified RAM. Xbox One RAM is slower but it has additional super fast RAM that PS4 lacks. RAM is easier to use on PS4 (unified), and trickier to use on Xbox One, as the additional super fast RAM needs to be used to alleviate this and the GPU difference.
RAM conclusion: RAM is not a big issue on Xbox One as long as developers work with the super fast additional ESRAM.
Why PS4 is more successful than Xbox One? Do you think it is because of these small technical differences? No. It was because Xbox One launch price was higher because of Kinect 2.0 being mandatory. Once Microsoft dropped Kinect and reduced Xbox One price, sales improved and were better than Xbox 360 up to that point. Was PS3 technically better and therefore more successful than Xbox 360? PS3 was technically better a little bit, but Xbox 360 was more successful until PS3 dropped features (like backwards compatibility and ports) and its price was reduced. Their total sales at the end of the generation were almost the same (PS4 86 millions, Xbox One 85 millions).
Wii U vs. PS4 vs. Xbox One
For people wondering Wii U technical specifications compared to those above and for that user that said Wii U is similar to Xbox One (I don't remember his name):
Wii U uses a custom multichip module, the CPU is a 45nm PowerPC module clocked at 1.24GHz (three cores, older technology). The GPU is a semi-custom 40nm Radeon R600/R700 at 550MHz (maximum 25% of shaders/TFLOPS possible on Xbox One or 18% of shaders/TFLOPS possible on PS4). The RAM is just 2GB DDR3 at 12.8GB/s, even though Wii U has some additional extra eDRAM cache memory and the main components are in the same module (shorter distances), the CPU and GPU are still poor, and half of its main RAM memory is reserved for the operating system.
Conclusion, Xbox One and PS4 are very similar, Wii U is one generation older. Second conclusion, not always the most powerful console wins, not always the weakest console wins. Of course, die-hard fans will always choose their beloved brand, but most gamers choose a console because of its technical capabilities, online/user features, developers' support vs. exclusive games, controller and price.
Unrelated, but the Splatfest results have finally broken the trend! Team Fancy won in popularity AND battles won! This might encourage more global Splatfests, so that things become more unpredictable than past Splatfests!
@Project_Dolphin "Many of today's gamers clamor for graphical power in their video games, and they're getting exactly that — along the way, however, developers are forgetting how to make video games that are truly classics."
Generic white male protagonist, unshaven, dead eyes, runs through desaturated grubby environment killing people and climbing things with weird rubbery limb movements whilst eating up huge chunks of hard drive space. This seems to be all the graphical arms race has produced in my eyes.
As for the NX rumours - I'll wait for Nintendo to do their reveal. Seems these so called insider people are using this nonsense as an excuse for a bit of cheap fame.
So, a bunch of people here think Nintendo is going to forego Polaris, and just use ARM... For a home console successor? For a separate portable device to tie in with mobile and their past use of ARM, yes, but ignoring the opportunity to use AMD's delayed tech with their delayed home console NX, in favor of a mere Roku like box or severely withered inefficient tech? Wow, such low expectations. Even I don't have THAT low of expectations, even though I think 8th gen is Nintendo's worst gen by far. Talk about doomsayers...
@liveswired Post #163, I agree though like I said in post #9 I think Nintendo sees the situation differently. Ever since the Wii's success, Nintendo has always focused on the logic of "power doesn't matter" so they will see the Wii U's commercial failure as completely unrelated to power debates but instead something else like poor launch and/or first party game droughts.
@Daldra agreed
@VanillaLake The X1 bandwidth is purposely misleading, this was done by Microsoft PR to try and hide the colossal bandwidth gap. They just added their 'fake' bandwidth data 2+2 and came up with 5. Compare Xbox One exclusive Quantum Break, sub native HD using reprojection which pushes the X1 to breaking point to PS4 exclusive Uncharted 4 which does the same, operating at a locked 1080p30. Absolutely no comparison, Uncharted blows it completely out of the water in all areas including scale.
As for the Wii U bandwidth specs, it's highly questionable as it doesn't come direct from the source.
Never trust Wikipedia.
@Grumblevolcano I'm not so sure. Since Wii and DS Nintendo have become obsessed with gimmicks.
Nintendo may well have given up on competing completely and what we are looking forward to is a rebranded Wii U - much like Wii is a rebranded GCN.
Judging by the article what we may be looking at is a more powerful Wii U design, I'm guessing a Quad Core CPU, 4GB RAM, 80GB HDD with a price point of $150-200. We will see an updated Gamepad @720p as well. This will allow you to connect to console on the go as long as you have Wi fi access. According to broadcom Nintendo could easily allow the current model even on Wii U to do this.
Disappointing, of its more of a 'refresh' with no real boost to power but this is Nintendo and should be expected.
@liveswired Not from Wikipedia but from websites that have literally opened the console and looked (and tested) what is inside.
At this point whatever the NX is, its specs are likely set in stone. So let's just play the games we have left this year and wait for the thing to come out.
Third parties don't fail to support Nintendo because of power alone. They fail to support Nintendo because its architecture is different, the controller requires additional thought/effort, and the Nintendo base doesn't buy third party games at a rate high enough to warrant the extra costs of porting under those circumstances.
I suspect Nintendo would get more third party ports if the system were more in line with the architecture and controller schemes of the other systems. But if this were the case, I would ask myself, why make the system at all, when others have already made this system? The way I see it, Nintendo needs to do its own thing. They don't work for EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc.
Making a system less powerful than the xbone and ps4 over 2 years after those came out would be a massive dissapointment to a lot of people - including most third parties (can't imagine it would be easy to port games - especially since the architecture sounds so different)
Until Nintendo announce the specs themselves i'll take all these rumours with a pinch of salt
@cleveland124
I have no problem with more power, but if the code isn't efficient and lazy devs use power to make up for flaws in their code that additional power is wasted and you will never get a game that is great as it could have been on a console anyway.
That works on pc because they can be upgraded and scaling is an option.
Simply having more power isn't enough on consoles as they will always be behind.
@SetupDisk
Efficient code doesn't necessarily mean a good game and a game that doesn't fully utilize all the power available doesn't make it a bad game. I think you are trying to oversimplify.
The reason the N64 Ram pack exists is because Nintendo couldn't figure out why DK64 code wouldn't run on the N64. So instead of spending a ton of time trying to resolve or downgrade, they upgraded the N64. Would you argue Nintendo used inefficient code and Nintendo was lazy and DK64 isn't as great as if it'd been optimized?
Nintendo is making a bad mistake if it does not go X86-64. PPC died with Apple dropped it for x86.
And I believe Arm would be a bad road to go down to as Arm is so so much slower than x86-64.
In my opinion, Nintendo needs to drop backwards compatibility and go mainstream with the hardware.
@McGruber yes! You just described me exactly! I'm tired of going to GameStop and having my Nintendo home console section be smaller that the Plush doll area. Uggh.
@IceClimbers "And no, there are absolutely no issues porting between x86 and ARM."
There are huge issues porting between the two when you talk low level programming.
If they went high level then yes very easy ports... But high level = bad performance compared to low level.
@aaronsullivan I disagree, if the Wii U Games are so compelling, then why no sales of the Wii U?
@Ahkwaman this is all true and compelling information, but we do live in a different world now. On the old systems of my childhood a AAA game could be made in less than a year for a small capital investment, now the games take years and millions of dollars.
I wonder how this works into your research... What do you think?
Unless you care about resolution and rendering filters, there's ZERO difference between PS4 and XOne. They produce the same visuals, the games run exactly the same way in both. Take MGS V as an example.
We're reaching the graphical limit for hardware. Such discussions will be irrelevant in a couple years.
@3MonthBeef I think PC gamers are more worried about consolitis than whether or not they'll get the game (or when) at this point. The transition to x86 architecture in consoles has assured that PC is not short changed anywhere near as often as it used to be. That question of when and if, and of bad ports, is in the past now. That is probably the one good thing the 8th generation of consoles has brought about...
"NX is not using x86 architecture"
Yeeeeees! Go custom go!!!!
@liveswired
I am with you. All that nonsense about specs doesn't mean anything. What matters is the end results.
Xbox fanboys can scream about both consoles being equal but yet Project Cars run at 1080p ~60fps on my brothers PS4 while my Xbox version gives me 900p ~45-50fps. That is not unusual. MS reps themselves admit the PS4 is more powerful when they were discussing how the cloud will give them the edge a couple years back.
Ultimately people will believe whatever delusions they want.
Not a shred of info has been confirmed, yet many here act like everything is 100% confirmed. It's so pathetic.
For the 8th gen in terms of power it obviously goes PS4>XBO>Wii U; but in terms of the games they've offered me it goes Wii U>XBO>PS4. Despite having the weakest lineup (imo) the PS4 has trounced the others though due to some good marketing by Sony (PS4 touted as being 'all about the games'), some terrible marketing by MS and virtually non existent marketing by Nintendo.
If NX is weaker than XBO/PS4 then it better have a great new gimmick and Nintendo better step up their marketing or else it'll fail like the Wii U did (in terms of sales).
@Danrenfroe2016
Most people don't take the plunge on a console over one or two games even if they hear about a game or play at a friends, etc. Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, Smash, Mario Maker have all gotten very positive attention from mainstream gaming press, and from personal experience I've hear people pine over the HD remakes of Zelda games, a surprise to me. Still, there's only so much money to go around and the prospects of the console died early on for many, many reasons including the flavor of the launch lineup that included none of those games.
Those games are plenty compelling on their own, but much more so on a console that feels like it has a future.
Anyway, I'm not even sure exactly what you disagree with because I said much more than "Wii U games are what will sell the NX" as you seem to imply. I was discussing how it would sweeten the deal in addition to other factors in a personal and subjective dream scenario.
Im still ok with Wii U power. N games looks great!
Whatever chips NX has inside it I doubt I'll buy it until I first see Nintendo support it with games I actually want.
It will be the first Nintendo console I don't buy at launch since the N64...
I don't care about power. if i can enjoy a console and its games and it only starts to crap out in 30+years, that's all that matters.
@cleveland124
It was lazy that Rare couldn't figure out a game crashing bug and used the pac to get around it. The expansion pak was around before DK 64 though and was supposed to be part of the 64 DD system. Other games used that extra memory for better quality graphics/framerate/draw distance with proper coding, actually taking advantage of it instead of resting on it and the games could run without it as well.
As for is DK 64 a good game or not that depends if you were sick of collectathons or not. It's my least favorite Rare 64 game but I like it. It could have been better if Rare actually found the problem though.
I wasn't saying all poorly programed games are bad if that's what it sounded like. But they obviously could be better if they had better programming. Now take Skyrim on PS3, great game but ran like garbage, after all the patches that got it to a (fairly) stable state the game is much more enjoyable. Wouldn't it have been nice for Bethtesda(spelling) to actual release a game designed up from the ground for the PS3?
They took the lazy route and made a port between two systems that fundamentally have to treat large open environments differently. They admitted to releasing a subpar game. The final game after all the patching is a much better game. They knew this would happen because of fallout. Now imagine if they had made two game engines back for Fallout 3, one for 360 and one for PS3. That could have been all avoided.
@SetupDisk I wouldn't call Rare lazy - their N64 output was incredible - but if I was to point out one thing lazy about Donkey Kong 64, and this was hit on in every review - the unfinished, drab overworld that is well below Rare's high standards - it's even more obvious when compared to the astounding visual design and flair on show within DK64's much larger theme worlds which is insane - but I guess Rare had the November deadline otherwise 1999 would've had no N64 big Christmas must have.
The N64 had no debugging tools so code had to be trawled for errors! As for the Expansion Pak - I'm so glad it was packed in with Donkey Kong 64 - that was a big selling point - I bought the game with Expansion pak for £49.99 from Electronics Boutique - basically DK was £25 so it was a steal - plus it put the EP in a few million consoles.
Donkey Kong 64 is a solid game with tonnes of value and alot to find and explore. I think the biggest issues are definitely the fact that areas had to be visited by multiple characters in order to collect bananas - but in terms of the word 'collectathon' I would say that in my eyes DK64 was the only real Rare collectathon, the titles that followed were rewarding - but even at that the collection of every banana and item was only required to gain 101% and the games extended secret ending which was worth the time. But all in all it runs in the N64's 640x480 and pushes an astounding amount around on screen, with beautifully textured and richly detailed worlds replete with dynamic, real time lighting - certainly puts Nintendo's graphical attempts to shame.
@andrew20 I think you are very off on your numbers here . We have tested the xbox 1 and ps4 and the Wii u and we took them to their limits and the Wii u is the only console on the market at this time x86 is PC not console . Going strictly by pure memory bandwidth xbox one 52 gig per second ps4 76 gig per second the Wii u 562 gig per second . I would say the Wii U has much more memory bandwidth to play with than the slower less powerful mini PC's the xbox and the ps4 actually are. X86 isn't a power base when the hardware using it cannot be upgraded the ram in the xbox 1 is ddr3 this stuff is dirt cheap and weak . the overclocked ram in the ps4 is clocked @ gddr5 speeds cannot comment on it past that . The Wii u is using gddr4 2 gig with much less used by the GPU than either the xbox 1 or the ps4 .
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