Few Nintendo franchises command as much loyalty and community engagement as Super Smash Bros.. From high-profile competitive events down to the hacking and modding scene, it's a series that has a large and devoted following.
In the opinion of some Super Smash Bros. Melee is the pinnacle of the series, still commanding the biggest audiences at tournaments and with a dynamic modding scene. When browsing the subreddit for the IP we saw just how deep the passion among a core of the game's fans goes, with a current debate raging over input lag in the iconic title.
The argument centres around an online multiplayer community, in particular - those that use the Dolphin emulator to play Melee online have been apparently divided over a method to reduce input lag. One intrepid gamer released a custom version of the emulator that doubles the emulation speed; while lag reductions this small can pass a lot of players by, for competitive players it can make a lot of difference.
Not all have been happy about it, however, due to this user utilising a custom Dolphin build, accepting donations and seemingly trying to control (and potentially profit from) its distribution. This somewhat runs counter to the principles held by many in the emulation and modding space.
Modder Dan Salvato decided to explain why he's disgruntled with developments and how they've seemingly split the Dolphin / Melee community. What comes from this is a rather intriguing video in which he explains how input lag works, and how he's implementing code that can be added to the standard dolphin build to be easily accessed by all.
Of course, modding and emulators can be grey areas, though at present there's no current-gen legitimate way to play Super Smash Bros. Melee. In any case, it's interesting to see how impressive coding skill is put to work in areas likes this - Smash is a franchise that continues to command great affection and commitment from its communities.
[source reddit.com]
Comments 49
oh my [redacted] goddess
MOVE THE [redacted] ON ALREADY, MELEE PEOPLE.
it's a decade and a half old game that's been outdone TWICE.
LET.
IT.
GO.
@CharlieSmile There's nothing wrong with preferring Melee; I can easily see why.
There's something wrong with trying to force your opinions on others and vilify their preferences(like you're doing now).
What is the point of this article? Do you guys just scour reddit for news and then repost it here? The only thing interesting is the video at the end and that's not content made by this site.
@CrazedCavalier "force opinions" =/= being opinionated
"The argument centres around an online multiplayer community, in particular - those that use the Dolphin emulator to play Melee online"
well how about playing it like it's supposed to be played, on a GameCube with your mates sat next to you instead of using it in a way it was NEVER meant to be used
The poor pirates. /sarcasm
I thought we couldn't talk about emulators and roms in the comments? (o_O )
and whoa, a lot of angry comments already. Maybe because it's morning? (-. - )
@Utena-mobile well it's not morning everywhere you know
and if my comments sound curt it's because i broke a tooth in halve and i have to wait until next week to have it surgically removed, so i'm in pain (and slightly high on pain killers) and miserable and tired because i can't sleep properly so i apologise in advance
@FullbringIchigo omg. I literally just cringed when you told me that. That really sucks. And a whole week? I'm really sorry. (T_T )
@Utena-mobile well i'm in the UK, we might have a Health service but it's crap
Luigi always makes me laugh in that picture. XD
Maybe the author of this article needed to expand more on the group of people that this lag reduction concerns. The "fans" that still prefer this game over it's newer iterations are all competitive gamers. They prefer Melee over Brawl and Smash4 from a competitive standpoint. I agree that the newer games are far superior from a casual standpoint; there's more items, crazier stages, more modes, and a lot more characters. But from a competitive perspective, it's easy to see why Melee is favored over it's alterations. Melee is a faster paced game which equates to a more enjoyable viewer experience, the game mechanics are much more deep which gives the game challenge, and there is almost zero chance/luck involved which makes for a better competitive atmosphere.
Obviously this means we need a lawsuit against Nintendo because it takes 16ms for the A button to input data on a system from 15 years ago. How dare they ruin my gameplay.
Um... So? Would you like to have Melee on Wii U Virtual Console or something? That's a nice idea.
It should be said that Dan designed 20XXTE, a Melee mod which runs off of a GameCube memory card, so to say Dan doesn't know how Melee works would be the lie of the century.
Never understood how Melee is still highlighted as the best in the franchise considering most of the competitive play consists of who can exploit the game the best. Not to say it is a bad game, it just seems so unpolished and glitchy now that it almost requires learning these exploits even to be remotely competitive. I understand there is a learning curve in fighting games (huge Mortal Kombat and Guilty Gear fan) it is just those learning curves were designed by the devs rather than oversights that have caused the game's balance to be so skewed.
No offense to Melee fans this is just my personal viewpoint.
Most of the Melee "techs" are just exploits and glitches. And despite the game being rushed for a holiday season release, (the game was in development for 13 months!) so many content was cut. And those "techs" were just there because the bug testers didn't have enough time to fully test the game. If Melee was delayed, it could've been so much different than it is right now.
I'm not saying it's a bad game, but I still don't see the appeal to use glitches and exploits for competitive play.
Why are the comments here so angry. It's unbelievable. Shouldn't a Nintendo site be in favour of the Smash Bros community, and not aggressive towards it?
Super Smash Bros. Melee for the Nintendo Gamecube is my favorite video game
@Wexter @Nintendude789
A couple of points:
Most of the exploits people complain about were explicitly programmed in by the developers. L-cancelling? 100% intended for advanced players. It was even nerfed from the previous game, where the technique was mentioned on the official site. Wavedashing? Also programmed into the game. Granted, the devs didn't know it would be used to such an extent, but that doesn't really matter, because:
Glitches/exploits and using them have been a part of the fighting game scene for a long time. People love to play Marvel vs Capcom 2 in part BECAUSE the literal 3 or 4 viable characters are as broken as can be. Even something as basic as special cancelling in Street Fighter was originally a bug, but the devs realized its potential for advanced play and left it in as a feature.
Exploits in Melee don't usually break the game. If you can wavedash like crazy but you don't know when it's appropriate to use, you're still going to get stomped by someone who doesn't know how to wavedash if they're better than you. The only thing that really breaks the game are chaingrabs, and that's only a real problem if you're playing Ice Climbers. Funnily enough, this particular exploit was even WORSE in Brawl.
@Nintendude789 @Wexter Pretty much what @nacho_chicken said. However I agree with you guys that it is a little excessive relying on these types of things and you can win without them in competitive play.
@Nintendude789 oh my lord you obviously never played melee
@nacho_chicken THIS, theres a guy named borp who uses no tech but still bops good players
@Wonky_Kong
I have Melee, but I don't play it competitiveley. (Not casually either.)
I have a couple of friends that play Melee competitively and I do join them.
@CharlieSmile
IKR, feel exactly the same about the gamecube controller as well.
I don't think people's problem with Melee fanboys is that they play a decade and a half old game, it's that they constantly proclaim that it is simple, objective matter of fact that Melee is more competitive than Smash 4.
Seriously, it's a good game, especially for it's time, but the reality is it was rushed to release and is severely lacking many features introduced by its successors. I still play it occasionally, mainly for the Adventure Mode and if I'd grown up with it and had nostalgia for it, I'd probably play it far more, but after a few hours I began to realize that the game is a glitchfest, with clunky physics and half-**sed clones. The game is also horribly unbalanced by competitive fighting game standards (it's almost like it wasn't meant to be a competitive fighting game), if you don't play as Fox, Falco, Marth or Captain Falcon forget about it. Funnily enough, even though the PAL version of the game made many balance adjustments (such as Fox's Up Smash), the US/NTSC version is preferred by most Melee elitists. It's almost like they like playing as the same six characters for 15 years.
And then there's the "Brawl is a *hit game, end of story". I mean seriously, remove tripping, and nerf Meta Knight, and you've got a far more balanced game with a bigger roster, which probably has more competitive potential than Melee. Hell, there's even a mod that does just that. http://balancedbrawl.net/
So all in all, I'd say Melee is a dog (or should I say Fox) that's had its day (especially now that Smash 4 has Roy and Mewtwo).
Play nice.
~Dank
Play Nice
~Dank
@EarthboundBenjy I present to you, the - mostly - toxic NintendoLife community. Good thing I love the site itself or I'd have run for the hills long ago.
1. It's okay to play old games.
2. Playing games on an emulator doesn't make you a filthy detestable pirate. Emulators often have advanced features that the original consoles don't have, like super eagle engine, choice of controllers, texture packs, or playing online.
3. the type of People still playing Smash Melee after all this time are pretty likely to be the people who own a disc, or at least bought it when it came out.
4. It's not even as if playing a downloaded ISO of Smash Melee is doing Nintendo out of any money, since it's not a VC game and isn't being produced anymore.
Also, this is a Nintendo news site. Nintendo themselves aren't doing enough newsworthy stuff to keep this place going, so of course the site is going to be looking a bit further afield for topics to write about. If you don't like it, then take some time off until e3, then a bit more time off until the NX reveal, or just check the site once per week or something. Please don't complain about whatyou think are just makework topics when there literally isn't anything else noteworthy to write about. I appreciate having something to read. If you don't like a particular topic, then just scroll past and find something you do like - I'm sure your time isn't so precious that the few seconds wasted having to scroll past something unappealing is worth the time it took for you to complain...
@SLIGEACH_EIRE They aren't necessarily pirates. It's just impossible to play Melee online without the use of some sort of emulator that supports netplay, specifically Dolphin. Most people that use it to play online have a legal game on the GameCube, making it legal. It is in fact completely legal to emulate games, so long as you own the original game. The only time this is useful is in a situation like this where you need to modify the game in order to play it online.
@Nintendude789 Enlighten me what a glitch is and then tell me how it applies to: Wavedashing, Dash-Dancing, L-Cancelling, DI-ing, Crouch-canclling.
Then, you will explain to me why it's a bad thing to use these "glitches" and exploits.
@FlappyFalco
Amen bro.
Also, shots fired.
@Nintendude789
Please refrain from both flaming other users and triple posting.
Thanks
@LinkSword lol. no it isn't. It just seems that way right now because with the NX being released in 2017, and only Zelda at E3, and NoA doing it's thing, we've got a lot to be frustrated about.
(o_O ) but don't worry. everything will work itself out.
shhhh shhhh
*pats head gently
@Danksparce
Sorry, did not know that.
@EngieBengie
I'm saying that most techs are glitches, not all. And I've never said that using those "techs" are a bad thing . Please read more carefully
Personally, I'm glad that Melee still has such a passionate community of regular players, even after all of these years. Modders have put in great work to add fun content too to mess around with, and this apparently still shows that they are looking for the optimal experience. It makes me wish there was something more similar in the Pokemon competitive scene, as I don't really ever see very many people sticking around in older generations for battles.
I kind of wonder what would happen if Nintendo ported Melee to current consoles (NX?) and allowed open support for downloading and loading mods to it for characters and stages.
You guys need some fresh news stories ASAP!
@Utena-mobile Nah, there are lots of people in here who do nothing but spread negativity about anything and everything they are ignorant of or do not feel involved about. Nothing to do with NX or high tensions about Nintendo's business, just unpleasant people all around.
Luckily there are also a bunch of folks worth reading, which is why I keep bothering with the comment sections in the first place.
Also, wow, that must be the most unnecessary mod edit I've seen in a while in my first post here. Apparently now I can't even say that ignorants dismissing passionate communities, and circlejerks thereof, are sad. Good thing I didn't use potty language or I'd be banned quicker than in Miiverse I guess.
Screw them. XD They're pirating the game, none of them have any right to complain about anything.
I wish Nintendo would give us info about NX and its games already. :/ So much uninteresting non-news these days.
Why was this frame lag discussion brought up?
Was it SFV's input lag discussion that started this. I mean, I understand. Core-A Gaming covered this and said that offense gets more pluses because it's less about reaction and more about thinking, unlike FG's like Guilty Gear.
@Nintendude789 I don't particularly agree with you that most techs are glitches (would actually like a list if you are going to use words like most) a lot of Melee and Smash tech in general transfers over to 4 it's just nowhere near as useful on average like dash dancing and shield dropping.
What Nintendo should do for NX: release a HD version of Melee without changing the game mechanics or anything and we´re done with this. Melee is still a very popular fighting game and having it in HD would be very nice.
@Nintendude789 NONE of them are. That's the point of my comment. For you to research the definition of glitch apply it to Melee's tech and for you to realize that none of them apply to the definition. I was vague and not precise enough with my point. At most they are physics exploits but none of the are glitches because glitches are hiccups in the game's code whilst something like Wavedashing can be rationally explained as being a byproduct of the momentum given to you from air dodging.
@EngieBengie
I also did mentioned exploits too, so you helped proving my point.
@AlternateButtons Why are you telling a large portion of the Smash community to just "move on"? Not only would that be damaging to the Smash community as a whole, but you're telling people who has spent countless hours playing something they love to go away just because you don't like the game at a competitive level. Do you know how incredibly selfish that sounds? Even as a Melee player myself who doesn't care for competitive Smash 4, I still don't want the sub community to die because that's just a selfish thing to say.
Honestly, if you don't care about competitive Melee or just came here to crap on other people's passion, then you should really just go. I know I sound kinda harsh, but after being in the Melee scene for at least 2 and a half years now, I'm kinda fed up with people constantly talking absolute crappie about it even though they don't know anything about it. Just my honest abit petty opinion.
@AlternateButtons No hard feelings if I sounded extremely harsh. It really had to do with something else entirely and I kinda wish I didn't unleash it on you, honestly.
I'm willing to admit that Melee does overshadow Smash 4 at least a little bit. As much as I don't enjoy competitive Smash 4, I still think the game has plenty of time for development. I just don't think a large chunk of the Melee community is just going to move to Smash 4 just because the game is under developed. Sure some competitive Melee players can play both games competitively like M2K, but that says a lot about how different both games are at a competitive level.
Competitive Smash is just another way for people to have fun. Sure it's not for everyone, but the many people who enjoy it finds it just as fun as a normal casual Smash game. It's just different strokes for different folks.
@Nintendude789 Exploits yes, glitches absolutely not. And even then, L-cancelling, DI-ing are official techniques, consciously programmed into the game. A technique being official or unofficial doesn't make it good or bad. Tripping was intentional in Brawl and did more harm than good meanwhile Wavedashing is not official but is still beneficial.
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