When Nintendo launched the Game Boy in 1989 it stuck with that core model for a surprising amount of time, not unleashing the Game Boy Pocket until 1996, and the Game Boy Color arrived as a new generation in 1998. The big N would gradually speed up its policy of iterating portables in years to come, adding improved screens or new form-factors, though it was the DSi that arguably shook things up further. It gave access to the DSiWare store, for one thing, and was a mid-generation enhancement that did more than normal to encourage DS fans to double dip. That trend has continued with the New 3DS and its improvements, though it's struggled to truly take off for various reasons.
With home consoles, though, life has generally been simpler. You buy a system and, normally, it'll give you 5-7 years of entertainment. Unlike the portable space where Nintendo's maintained an iron grip - though the PSP put up a particularly valiant fight - the home console arena is different, with multiple parties duking it out.
Typically, core home systems have gone head-to-head without constant iterations. In fact, when SEGA started playing the iteration game with the Genesis / Mega Drive through the 32X and SEGA CD, it arguably kicked off its pattern of decline. Flooding the market with pricey tweaks and exclusive capabilities simply turned a lot of people off, segmented the market and probably cost SEGA a lot of money. Its hardware strategy was chaotic and, eventually, it exited the market. Consoles have always had relatively minor accessories and optional add-ons, but mid-generation 'new' systems - even if they did bolt onto older models - didn't fly in the '90s.
In the past few generations we've seen solid, uninterrupted periods where systems compete largely unchanged at the market. Slim and budget model revisions have been a norm, but ultimately the guts of machines have gone unchanged. Nintendo never got its 64DD out of Japan, for example, and generations have become easily discernible and simple. They last 5-7 years, and then the manufacturers do it all again.
It's now getting messier, however. For one thing, the struggles of the Wii U in particular - and perhaps the declining momentum of the 3DS, should Nintendo be working on a hybrid - mean that most bets are on Nintendo releasing its NX hardware either this Holiday season or in early 2017. We've already written about how there could be a clash - in terms of press attention and retailer space - with PlayStation VR, but it seems Sony will be disrupting matters further.
After doing the rounds in rumours for the past month or so, multiple and notable sources are pinning near 100% certainty on specifications for the so-called PS4K, codenamed Neo. There are boosts in CPU, GPU and memory, with talk of support for playing 4K media and improved game performance. Dev kits are apparently on their way out, though any game that runs on the new system should also run on a PS4; ultimately the new system should offer a mix of improved framerates, visual effects and upscaling for high-resolution TVs. Developers will apparently have to ensure their games support both versions of the system.
It sounds like a home console equivalent to the New 3DS - not in specifications, obviously, but in general concept. Unlike the New 3DS the PS4K will actually be utilised, we suspect, as developers often develop on hardware way beyond the PS4 / Xbox One, so scaling up and improving games with updated PS4K devkits is unlikely to be met with much protest. It's the first mid-generation home console iteration in quite some time, however, so has to be considered a gamble for Sony, albeit one from a position of strength.
It's the latest development in breaking down the conventional 'generation' model. The year-early arrival of Wii U and its poor sales mean Nintendo is jumping in mid-generation with its step-up, and some (not all) sources have claimed it's more powerful than current generation rivals. PS4K, perhaps, will shut down any advantage the NX may have had on that score, though that's speculative. It's a strange scenario though - a significant revision from Sony, a new 'generation' from Nintendo, and Microsoft yet to say or do anything much in response, though it's put a lot of recent focus into strengthening the Xbox's bond with PC gaming.
It's an interesting development, especially with PS4K, and it's hard to tell whether it's all going to go the way of the 32X or sell like hotcakes. Of course if it lands in the same window as the NX, which isn't beyond the realm of possibility, it could be a major headache for both Nintendo and Sony.
On the broader issues, it'll be intriguing to see how gamers and consumers react. Some comment around Sony's planned revision has been negative, with some saying they'd game on PCs if they wanted to revise their hardware every 2-3 years. Yet of course plenty of fans are also excited, and Sony appears to have dodged a potential PR disaster with the requirement that every game release support both the PS4 and its upcoming mid-gen successor.
Then we have the near-end of a patent application from Nintendo that dragged on for nearly two years. The 'Supplemental Computing Device' patent has cleared issues and is now a fee payment away from being passed, and it's an intriguing idea. As the name suggests it's a piece of hardware that can help a console to perform better - in the patent such a device would have on board processing capabilities, but also make use of Cloud processing. Utilising the Cloud this way isn't new, though doing so effectively would give Nintendo a potential breakthrough to bring it screaming back into the technology arms race, which it effectively abandoned (in terms of graphical power) with the Wii and Wii U.
A patent, of course, doesn't mean a product will emerge. Yet Nintendo has been persistent in getting it through, and the application even referenced rewards for sharing resources through the cloud that certainly seem to be in My Nintendo territory. If such a device could be produced to enhance a system's capabilities, it could be Nintendo's own version of a mid-generation boost for hardware.
So, why is this suddenly on the agenda? Why are console generations suddenly being broken up? One argument could be that technology is advancing quickly and consoles are struggling to keep up. There's merit to this perspective, but it doesn't really stack up fully.
The answer may be in the fact that PS4 and Xbox One arguably didn't provide the generational leap that was expected - again, from a graphical standpoint. While PS3 and Xbox 360 delivered HD gaming while plenty of people still had Standard Definition TVs, thus generating a perception of 'next-gen' power, this writer would argue that the current generation failed to provide the same leap. Of course, the hardware is more powerful, yet when 1080p isn't even hit as standard - such as the much argued-over '900p' on some Xbox One games - and framerates and gameplay aren't always smooth, the generational shift can seem underwhelming. Rather than basking in 1080p and 60fps gaming, as it seemed we were being promised in 2013, a number of larger and more ambitious titles are ultimately exercises in compromise and making do with hardware limitations.
With 4K, Ultra HD and similar terms now creeping into popular discourse, the pressure is on for gaming hardware to live up to new standards. We're not sure PC gaming is even that influential in this - it's always been a law unto itself with keen PC gamers overclocking and achieving ludicrously tasty results. No, the issue is likely more about being perceivably cutting edge to the mainstream audience.
Will PS4K pay off? Will Nintendo hit the jackpot with its NX concept, whatever it is? Will Microsoft react? All are unknowns, but we're certainly heading into a crowded and messy period for home console gaming. Figuring out the point at which there are too many systems and variations for the public to support is tricky, and whether current PS4 owners switch to the new model in big numbers is also tough to predict. By the end of this year store shelves could be groaning under the weight of new gaming offerings, and consumers will be left to sift through them all and make their purchasing decisions.
In any case, the home console market is set to get a whole lot more complicated.
Comments 138
PS4K is Sony's response to NX. I'm sure Microsoft will follow suit with an upgraded Xbox One.
These are exciting times! Very interesting to see where the video game industry is heading. I'm very excited for Nintendo NX. I can't wait to know what it is and how it will work and of course what games they have been working so hard on.
i personally think that the 'base station' in this case is the wii u and it serves only as the optical drive for the supplemental computing device that is the handheld nx.
I'm all for shorter console cycles as long the older games play on the newer systems.
I don't understand why people claim that Sony is doing this because Nintendo's NX... when Sony has updated their systems in the past. Sure, maybe not to this extent but it is not a new thing really.
I see no reason to get excited about PS4 Neo honestly. It's just an upgraded PS4, and if every game developed for PS4 is required to support both the PS4 and the Neo, then I'm fine with my regular PS4. Do that many people even have 4K TVs yet? Maybe they do, but I probably won't be getting one for another 4 or 5 years, if the technology is even still relevant. I'm very curious about what NX could be but after reading this article it almost makes me wonder if the NX is just an upgraded Wii U... If this is the case I wouldn't be too thrilled but would probably spend the money anyway.
I think we will see the beginning of diminishing returns in terms of perceived value and price. Many if not most of the supporters of the console industry have a long memory of lasting console generations. I do not think many people have the money to put down so rapidly nor perceive it will continue to be worth it support console gaming if it is going to change so frequently. I mean, how far are Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft from a "new every two" plan that companies like Verizon and AT&T were doing with new cell phones. The market will burst soon.
I welcome the change!
I'm excited for the NX but I'm not thrilled with the rest of the gaming industry. It seems alot of time is being spent on graphics and not listening to fans asking for good games not good looking games. Just my opinion though.
By tying together Xbox and Windows 10 and moving them closer and closer to each other into a single unified Xbox ecosystem, Microsoft are already effectively moving in this same direction.
"One argument could be that technology is advancing quickly and consoles are struggling to keep up"
I think this is right actually. A fixed hardware platform might be alright for 2 or 3 years, but not for 4 or 8. That means there has to be a PS4.1 and PS4.2 etc. Also, as much as gamers might whine about "graphics power" and technological step changes (or lack thereof), it's the services around a console that make such a huge difference these days. The friends lists, achievements, leaderboards, shared user-generated-content, tournaments.
Upgrading the Wii U with a supplementary device is an interesting speculation for sure. Super-fast streaming over a short distance (from supplimentary device to TV or GamePad via Wii U) makes more sense. To my mind, there are too many issues around doing anything in the cloud that is performance related. I'd say maybe the supplimentary device will let people record and upload videos to youtube like how PS4 and Xbox One have those inbuilt features, only we all know how much Nintendo love youtube...
I like the "upgrade idea" but I'll only be interested in one company making it happen. The PS4 is my primary console now. And if Nintendo is really going this route that these "rumors" are saying then the NX will be my last system. There is no need for me to upgrade my PS4 to a Neo version.
I hope Nintendo NX will change everything in the industry. 2016 a great year!!
@Acein210 FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT! Graphics aren't everything. What really matters is the game itself. I mean I go back and play Kingdom Hearts and Chrono Trigger almost yearly. They're not the most graphically incredible games but they're amazing games.
If they start requiring us to purchase a revision every few years just to get the optimal experience then I think I will be switching over to PC gaming, though I will always own one of Nintendo's systems. I buy consoles with the expectation that it will last at least 5 years though I am aware that the mid generation revision is mainly for the people who care about getting the best experience. Either way I can always vote with my wallet and nothing is really set in stone right now so I won't jump to conclusions just yet!
We'll see if and when consoles are announced, but I don't like this idea. If a enhanced console is announced, it'll fragment the market and make things confusing and costly.
If I had bought a PS4, then I would want it to play PS4 games to the best possible quality for several years at least. It's too early in its console cycle to offer an improved system, and will annoy current PS4 customers.
If all PlayStation games are required to run both the PS4 but also have enhanced features, it's going to be harder to develop for those systems since multiple systems need to be taken into account.
Another factor is the cost. People don't want to be buying multiple consoles in what used to be a traditional console cycle. Improved consoles or supplementary devices will make people question whether they're actually getting value for money when they buy a base console.
I'll take these rumours with a heap of salt, and I'll be open minded when a console or addition is revealed. However, I don't like the concept so far.
I'm not sure it's fair to call the NX a second 8th gen console. Nintendo has always had a fairly regular release schedule for North America with consoles. The NES was around for 6 years before being replaced, the SNES 5 years, the N64 5 years, the Gamecube 5 years, and the Wii 6 years. When the NX launches this fall or early next year, it will given the Wii U a 4 or 4.5 year life span - shorter than the others, for sure, but still not as early as people are making it out to be. If nothing else, Nintendo does their own thing rather than just following market trends, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that they release consoles on their time, not the market's. I also think people overestimate the jump in visible performance that the "PS4K" will see as well as its impact on Sony's sales.
That being said, even if some of us who have been following the industry generation after generation see the NX as an early 9th gen console instead of a late/second 8th gen console, the average consumer will not see it that way, so Nintendo's going to have an uphill battle to convince consumers to adopt, especially after the Wii U. I hope they've got a masterpiece of a brilliant marketing strategy up their sleeves.
I do believe that whatever the NX is, it's going to completely change the gaming industry. Just as the Wii did. It's going to be incredible. I know it.
I looked at the supposed specs for the PS NEO and there is barely any difference from the original. I have a gut feeling this could end up backfiring on Sony greatly. Also from what I hear devs are not even allowed to make exclusive content for the neo
@TheHeroOfTime333
This. Stay postive everyone.
@Wolfgabe
Exactly...
That is why I have no intention to upgrade to a Neo. The NX will be an "all new system".
@TheHeroOfTime333 I love chrono trigger!
It certainly feels like Nintendo is forcing the hand of Sony. Put them under some pressure but the real difference between ps4 and ps4 Neo is.... The games look slightly better? Sign me up for the NX.
The thing is companies talk, Dev teams talk.
A Dev team who's developing for ps4, X1 receives Dev kits for NX and says to the others that the NX is much more powerful and will blow your mind........the others respond,they had a concept 6 months ago and now they are going through with it.
I do believe and my sources believe this ps4k is a direct response to the NX and the rumoured X1 upgrade.
Good article! Being a console gamer myself, I can safely say Im pretty overwhelmed with the idea of console refreshes this early on. I generally like to have to latest and greatest equipment, but its starting to get overwhelming this year since we're already looking at VR and possibly the NX
If the PS4 Neo really is in response to what the NX might be, than it could well hurt Nintendo's launch of the NX. There goes Nintendo's potential main selling point, or one of them, that the NX is stronger than the rivals.
Why buy the NX when you can get the PS4 Neo which will work on most current games in the library, albeit with a patch, and will work with all future PS4 titles. The NX may not even get any of that library.
If the NX is going to be a supplemental unit to the Wii U, I wish they'd announce it already, because then I'd run out and buy a Wii U
I don't think Sony is afraid of NX at all, but they want to give a boost to ultra high definition by making a new version of PS4 that is able to upscale to 4K. It would be good if Neo can make 1080p 60FPS a standard but I won't get a new version of PS4 because of that.
I doubt NX can compare to Neo, because Neo will be using the latest GPU technology, one that is not available on any graphics card yet. NX will be the Nintendo system that mixes home and portable consoles, hopefully not another underpowered Nintendo hardware. The fact that Nintendo is developing for mobile phones makes me fear that they are not interested in the hardcore player any more, but still want to have a dedicated Nintendo system for bigger games.
Microsoft's next step is a total mystery. Probably a new Xbox backwards compatible that allows gamers to use their Xbox One controllers. Xbox One is an almost perfect console now (interface, controller, games library, online features), but it struggles to achieve PS4's visuals and that harms its popularity.
This generation seems to be running too quickly.
What would be the rush shipping the PS4K this year? Or even next year? estimates suggest 4K won't really take over the HD market until about 2020. Which seems about the time Sony would be releasing a PS4 successor anyways. What's the rush? They have a strangle hold on the market right now, unless they plan on giving away free 4K TVs with the purchase of an upgraded PS4. If they release this year, they will be selling to a limited market and doing potential harm to their long time supporters. Besides, isn't the PSVR releasing this year? It'll be interesting to see how this works out for Sony. They could hit out of the park or repeat Sega's mistake from the mid '90s.
Nintendo's next console with its fully portable component needs to cost a total $499.00 and last for 4 years.
All I want is a Nintendo console that competes on level with the other two consoles with online play and horsepower so they can get all the third party companies back on board. If they can pull off that and have the Nintendo charm lathered on with their strong first party games I'd be so happy.
@Blastcorp64 It is far too soon and this leak hurts them. I know people that were ready to buy a PS4 and now are waiting for that upgraded version. Developers don't see happy with this set up either as it further complicates things.
Upgrading machines ?
One word,
Sega.
Sega completely flooded the market for themselves.
I know for myself, I buy a console for the convenience of not having to upgrade.
Consoles and PC is slowly blurring into one, even more so with Steambox.
If they upgrade the One, I may double dip. Depending on how much I like my NX anyway. Always nice to have that 2nd platform.
@VanillaLake interesting post,
I had a PS4 and Xbox One side by side playing games, and we all agreed there was very little in it.
PS4 maybe had the edge, but it was marginal, and didn't effect how the game played on the Xbox One.
I really rate the Xbox One as a machine, I think it's unfairly tarred with a brush at times.
@Wolfgabe Previous iterations e.g. PS3 Slim didn't backfire. How can it backfire if the original PS4 continues to get full support?
I believe Sony are making this move out of necessity to support PSVR. VR requires reliable high performance to work it's "magic". Frameratedrops are a much larger issue in VR than on a screen, and will likely cause motionsickness.
Pretty sure Sony has realised they've bitten over more than the PS4 can chew with VR.
Dammit, I can't bear the NX suspense any longer!!! We can guess all day at the moment if the NX will be a success, but ultimately when it is revealed, if your mouth is open it will be a success. If it is closed, then maybe wait to see what the PS4K is about heheh.
@abbyhitter No, it isn't. It is a response to it's own failings in delivering a console that can handle 1080p/60fps. If you're in the lead, you don't have to take stop-gap measures to stay just that little bit ahead of the competition.
@ikki5 Exactly right. People need to calm down and realize what's what...
@FragRed Well, luckily it isn't a response, and what do you mean by a patch? It will work with ALL titles right out of the gate, because all titles need to work on both models PS4.
As for Nintendo: of late, it has never been Nintendo's thing to go for most powerful, so that isn't going to be their selling point anyway.
@VanillaLake The PS4K is not going to have a revolutionary new GPU at all, justy a moderate upgrade:
http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/sources-the-upgraded-playstation-4-is-codenamed-ne/1100-5437/
It has to stay within the confines of the same architecture to assure compatibility.
@crimsontadpoles It is not going to be harder to develop for. Like the article describes very correctly, most of the times, console games need to be scaled down from the PC/dev kit they were developed on to be able to work smoothly on their target console, so having to scale down less is actually something that developers will welcome with open arms. The more power, the better, so to speak.
"In any case, the home console market is set to get a whole lot more complicated."
Succinctly put.
I don't see the point in a PS4K, since the PS4 is a pretty powerful machine as it stands. Further proves my theory that people are shifting towards a 'graphics are what matters' mentality. Besides, if this thing can play 4K, it's gonna be SUPER expensive; how many people will be willing to pay up?
I predict this is gonna be a big flop. My other concern is storage space - games designed to work with 4K are gonna have higher texture quality, et al - these games will be massive! 500 gigabytes may not suffice (not that it ever has if you go only digital) in terms of space.
@Madder128 Thanks. First I got a Wii U, then quite quickly I got a PS4 and last year I got an Xbox One Elite pack. To be honest, I think the best console and controller this generation is the Xbox One. Why? The controller hasn't been beaten yet (specially the Elite controller), the new interface is the best this generation by far, the backwards compatibility is pretty good (and free!!), the console keeps cool and silent and the Kinect-less packs are cheaper, plus skipping Kinect allows games to achieve a better performance.
As you well said, there is little visual differences between PS4 and Xbox One, the only being a lower resolution sometimes on the latter. Xbox One's early steps went in the wrong direction but Microsoft has corrected every wrong step they made. Xbox One deserves that people acknowledge that.
PS4 is a good console but the interface and controller are not as good as Xbox One's, and you only get a dozen of PS2 games as retro games which is quite disappointing, and they were very expensive at the beginning. PS4 has some great exclusive games but so do Xbox One and Wii U.
I'm not a spoiled player, this is my first generation with three consoles, the biggest benefit is that I can play the exclusive games of each, so I recommend anyone asking me that they should get the console that has the exclusive games that they want the most. However, I have realised that Xbox One is the best console right now for all that I have explained here.
Funny how people are pulling the Sega card, except now for Sony. Some people either forget what really happened too soon, or they simply don't know the story at all...
@JamesCoote Interesting post, except for one tiny misstep: The NX isn't going to be a supplemental device to the Wii U. If anything, Kimishima expressly stating the move away from the Wii/Wii U family of consoles should have made that abundantly clear already.
@Fatdeath Nail on the head, my friend. And it has already been documented too, that this is one of the reasons. Makes perfect sense too, especially because of the strict frame rate demands that Sony wants to see realized with this updated console.
It is odd that right when Nintendo were starting to get the gears in motion for their move to the NX and phasing out the Wii U that both Sony and Microsoft have leaked outta pretty much nowhere that they too will release new hardware this year, which is an almost unprecedented action for the both of them to do.
Now I'm not gonna go all 'NX will be revolutionary'/'it's a conspiracy!' sorta thing but I just have to think about how odd the timing is. I certainly am not passing judgment on any 'new' system before they've even had a chance to sell it to us, but it does make me wonder. It is like they both want to steal Nintendo's thunder by releasing a system to draw the headlines away from Nintendo. That's what the timing makes it seem to me anyway, I mean why risk peaving off 30+ million people? Especially Sony who were 'winning the Console Wars' pretty much in cruise control.
I dunno but from the whispers and rumours and particularly the timing of them that is what I am reading into it.
@Arcanum
I was thinking the same. Sony is doing the Neo/VR thing so the PS4 doesn't become obsolete. But it will be mostly gpu and graphics.
Nintendo on the other hand has their back against the wall with more to prove. Nintendo has a good track record as innovators alone so, it will be more exciting to see what they reveal and if the rumors hold any truth (great ideas about these patents so far though).
@TheRealThanos "The PS4K is not going to have a revolutionary new GPU at all, justy a moderate upgrade:
http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/sources-the-upgraded-playstation-4-is-codenamed-ne/1100-5437/
It has to stay within the confines of the same architecture to assure compatibility."
I don't lie, I just read it here:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-sonys-plan-for-playstation-4k-neo-revealed
"GPU: This is the most exciting aspect of the spec. Compute unit count doubles from 18 to 36, and clock-speed increases from 800MHz to 911MHz - a 14 per cent increase. That's an overall increase of 2.3x in FLOPs. The question is, what technology is being used here? AMD has created both of its current-gen console processors so far by taking older, off-the-shelf components and disabling a couple of compute units. In effect, Xbox One got the Radeon HD 7790, while PlayStation 4 got a more capable, semi-custom Radeon HD 7870. Here's where things get interesting - the 36 compute unit count cannot comfortably fit any of AMD's existing GPUs. It suggests that Sony and AMD have pushed the boat out, that they are using the upcoming Polaris technology".
@VanillaLake We'll see, but I can't imagine this being the case, since it would seriously hamper compatibility with the existing PS4 and it serves little to no purpose otherwise.
If this is true, then I have to remove some parts of my previous comments and I'll have to state that PS4K is INDEED a reaction to NX, which it isn't. And that also begs the question: how would Sony know what Nintendo has cooked up in order to be able to make something even more powerful? Oh, the speculations... or should I say rumors?
EDIT: to clarify, obviously the hardware is confirmed, but I still think that they have to stay in the confines of the larger user base, so as not to disadvantage the 40+ million existing PS4 owners, so people expecting ginormous things from this, are going to be sorely disappointed.
@TheRealThanos When referring to the patch, I was talking about all current PS4 titles on the market. Quoted from Eurogamer's article "Developers have the ability to add Neo support to their existing PlayStation 4 titles coming out in September via a day one patch".
@3MonthBeef but have even any of the rumours pointed towards NX having anything to do with 4K? There was one not too long ago on Neogaf that was made up that said NX would be compared to the PS4k with power but he was just guessing. From what I see, Nintendo are looking to bounce back from a failure, and right in the year they're planning to transit we get this happening. Coincidence? I dunno.
@TheRealThanos Oh thank the LORD! I was literally having a panic attack for a second there but your aggressive sarcasm has really put me at ease now. I was absolutely mistaken to believe that one videogame company might have an idea at what other videogame companies are up to. What was I thinking?
Next you're gonna tell me that the PS4 and Xbox One releasing a month from each other was a fluke too! I mean there's no way in heck it was planned right? And Nintendo trying to get a head start, they just read the stars am I right?
God I love sarcasm!
@FragRed Ah, okay. I interpreted it the wrong way, my bad.
@TheRealThanos Well, Eurogamer's article says that there won't be any compatibility issue. I don't really think PS4 is a reaction to NX but there is a bigger interest in 4K technology. Sony manufactures TVs and produces audiovisual entertainment.
Do you know why PS3 features Blu-Ray technology? Because Sony created it and wanted everybody to favour it and also finish off the earlier HD DVD. Sony Pictures and the royalties are big reasons, Blu-Ray is now everywhere and Sony gets money because of that. Even the Xbox One uses it.
My point is that PS4 Neo is to introduce gamers to the ultra high definition world. To make it incompatible with PS4 would be suicidal for Sony, PS4 is a success and its users wouldn't be happy, but this way everybody's upgrading, sooner or later (Neo or later consoles), everybody will be getting 4K TVs and 4K media someday... I'm not in a hurry, mind you. I'm happy with Wii U, PS4 and Xbox One for the moment, I have a lot to enjoy for years to come.
@TheLastLugia Oh, they'll know something but we all know Nintendo's NDA's which will also count for AMD, so Sony (or Microsoft for that matter) will not have all the details on the competition's chip set, so any reactive measures will more than likely be ball park only.
No sarcasm or smart-assery needed to understand that. Just age and wisdom...
@VanillaLake To add to my previous edit, this part of the Eurogamer article supports what I said about staying within the confines:
PS4K (very misleading name, not that it came from anyone official mind you) is the right way to do hardware upgrades. It's nothing major, so nobody who owns a PS4 needs to feel like they're missing out. It's pretty much like the 3DS, except they're actually saying from the start there will be no exclusive games.
It's not meant to be an upgrade, it's just the next model. If will sell for the same price the current model does.
@TheRealThanos From the same article: "Our concern was that PS4's low-level APIs may not be compatible with the newer architecture, meaning problems running older games, but it seems that this is not an issue".
It's common sense, it would be suicidal to have compatibility issues.
@TheRealThanos Don't worry, I had to double check myself. I feel it could prove problematic if developers don't decide to patch all their current games.
@abbyhitter Really doubt that, I think main reason they made it was good VR support. For PC to support VR you need more than 1k usd gaming rig, so it's obvious that current PS4 is simply not powerful enough to run games in VR smoothly.
@VanillaLake The part about Blu-ray (only partially invented by Sony, by the way), or rather UHD media capabilities is evident, and I have already mentioned that multiple times across a lot of articles on different sites that Sony will probably push that as well, together with VR capabilities, because movies can also be viewed with that, but it needs better hardware. Enter the PS4K...
What I meant with confines wasn't the compatibility issue, but more a case of some people possibly expecting more spectacular games, but these aren't going to come.
Games have to work on both systems, but will have additional features when running on Neo. These differences won't be breaking the internet, however...
@buildz Apparently it's going to cost $399, so similar price, better hardware. Good for new adapters, I guess.
@TheRealThanos That seems too low for something capable of 4K. Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see for official pricing details.
@TheRealThanos I mean this is all just speculation but I'd like to think that if even we can learn some details about consoles before they're unveiled, I'd think chances are that th competition of those systems know pretty much all they need to know about them well in advance.
Were the bigwigs at Sony watching how Nintendo and in particular Microsoft messed up their recent consoles in amazement as they had no idea what they were like beforehand and then (and only then) decided to market the PS4 as they did as a reactionary measure? I don't think so.
We have no idea what the NX is, how the PS Neo or whatever it's called now will affect the PS4's success or what the Xbox 1.5 will do but I don't think Yoshida and co and Phil Spencer will be shocked at what the NX is. I bet they know pretty much already.
We'll see of course, I personally don't think that Sony have anything to worry about but I just don't think it's all a massive coincidence. I think that's a very naive way of looking at this situation.
@crimsontadpoles "confusing"
Like "New 3DS"? I'm betting Sony is smart enough not to call it "New PS4".
@TheRealThanos It's like TW created a thread just to watch your head explode. Too bad Quorthon isn't around as much, you 2 would explode the internet.
TL;DR but I'm assuming there isnt anything new anyway.
@TheLastLugia Well, to be honest, what we can learn, or think we can, comes from gaming websites, and forums like Reddit and NeoGAF, were rumors are as numerous as there are stars in the skies. Of course snippets of truth will be in there, but we'll know only when things are revealed, and in this case it's Sony that chose to reveal the specs, so now it's sure.
Nobody still knows what Nintendo is doing, and besides that being hugely annoying, it's also an absolute truth...
As for your last point: that would mean that Sony was indeed seriously worried a while back that NX would be significantly better than the PS4 or has some other factor (gimmick) that could possibly make it successful and steal some of their thunder, otherwise Sony would not feel the need to upgrade their hardware since they're two street lengths ahead in sales and market share. They had and have nothing to worry about indeed.
As some other people have already said, support for UHD media and VR will more than likely be the main reason, and possibly longevity as well, seeing as consoles aren't quite as revolutionary as they were anymore, falling behind PC's ever more quickly.
NEO will also grant them more stability, and will finally lock that 1080p/60fps target, which quite a few current console games are still having difficulties with. As a new Playstation adapter, it will be the go to system.
@rjejr No worries, I only rage virtually, I'm actually totally Zen, listening to the soothing sound of the keyboard keys clicking as I type my virtual rantings...
E3 will be nuts (in a good way).
@buildz Well, it's mentioned in some articles describing the other facts surrounding NEO too, so it must have some truth to it.
And remember: 4K gfx cards are already available for consumer prices in the range between $250 - $300, meaning that buying them in bulk quantities for cost price will probably only cost Sony half that, so it is quite possible. Maybe Sony is already calculating in the losses made on each console, as their primary target will be getting them into homes asap, and then quantity will make up for that. Although I myself am also wondering how many more PS4's they think they can sell...
@TrueWiiMaster Yes it will. Maybe we'll finally see one like the good old days. For all parties...
My biggest reservation right now is that the portable component of the NX needs to be able to work OFFLINE without a wifi connection or else it's useless as a portable console
Why is there so much talk about the PS4K here? This is a Nintendo site.
@Vegaphil Because Nintendo is part of the global gaming market; any big things that occur in the market we have a right to know about too. Besides, this is 1 article - how many do you see that are solely about the PS4? We can talk about what we want - there isn't a "NINTENDO ONLY" rule now, is there?
@TheRealThanos Even if they did purchase in bulk, they wouldn't be too much cheaper, or the graphics card manufacturer would be getting ripped-off. I can see a $500-$700 price tag, but not a $300 one.
@buildz Look it up: cheap AMD cards (albeit 4GB) can be purchased for $239, so more advanced cards can be well within the ball park. And orders for it will be in such volumes, that AMD will definitely not be ripped off. They will happily sign such a contract.
I think the new consoles are cool and all, but it still makes me sad that new ones are coming. Reason being that I just bought my wii u a year ago, and wanted to get a good 3 years out of it. At the very least, some wii u games will be on sale and I can pick a couple up on sale. Xenoblade chronicles X hopefully
@TheRealThanos In response to comment #41, technically the PS4 can do native 1080p/60 fps. The problem is that developers are making games with such a large scope or pushing graphical fidelity that the games have to be ran at a lower resolution and framerate. The PS4 Neo I think is designed to help remedy that, though I'm not sure it will do that as devs could just push more graphical fidelity.
Also, my big concern here is that despite Sony being strict, there doesn't seem to be anything preventing a Hyrule Warriors Legends situation, in which the game runs like **** on the original hardware. Sony requires that games must have a framerate equal to or exceed that of the original PS4. That doesn't prevent a HWL situation, as that would still fit that requirement.
@buildz
The "4k" probably isn't for gaming, it's for streaming media. The current PS4 HDMI 1.4 may not be capable of running 4k HDR video that requires the new 2.0a spec.
http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-General/PS4-Hardware-Revision-may-be-sooner-then-later-gt-HDMI-2-0/td-p/45094627
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2015/02/02/new-4k-capable-ps4-and-xbox-one-consoles-coming-this-year-predicts-netflix/#6acb52cd7270
And Sony has it's new 4k streaming service "ULTRA", currently only available on Sony UHD TVs.
http://4k.com/news/sonys-4k-streaming-service-goes-live-as-of-april-4th-to-sony-4k-uhd-tvs-13301/
So it isn't about 4k resolutions for gaming, though there could be an upres for lower quality games, but it's all about streaming 4k media. Also the possibility of a UHD blu ray, but I think those are probably too expensive. But since Sony already makes UHD players maybe they can get a good price?
I do think Sony will have it's hands full trying to explain why it's PS4K doesn't play games in true 4k resolution, only movies, but I'd bet that's there plan. PS4K - plays all PS4 games and streams 4K content from Sony, Netflix, Amazon etc.
Unless Sony knows what Nintendo is up to and it truly is something revolutionary I seriously doubt Sony is worried about the NX. Sony is the market leader right now, it's what the gamers have wanted since the last generation lasted way too long.
If the PS4K can play 4K Blu Ray and games in 1080p 60fps (so many PS4/XB1 games have sludgy framerates) I'm sold.
I really don't think it's a reaction to NX or vice versa. I'm excited to see what NX is and what it can do as I think Nintendo will have learned a lot from the Wii U and it could be something special.
I also think this 3-year-upgrade model is what all manufacturers will be looking for. The mobile phone market has shown that consumers will upgrade every 2-3 years if the new tech can support the old techs software. Nintendo are moving towards an ecosystem too. If this is a success for Sony you can expect MS and Nintendo to follow suit.
Hey Tom Microsoft already spoke about an upgradable Xboxone...http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/microsoft-could-release-hardware-upgrades-for-the-xbox-one/
@IceClimbers I totally think plenty of 3rd party games are going to be like HWL.
I'm honestly not sure why the PS4 Neo exists. I mean, PS4 is currently the most successful home console on the market by a sizeable margin, and even if the NX home console sells at 3-4 times the pace of the Wii U, PS4 will still be the market leader (of course, if the NX home console sells at 5+ times the pace of the Wii U, then PS4 will no longer be the market leader, but that scenario is unlikely barring the NX being another Wii).
The only reason I can think for why Sony would want to make a PS4 Neo is due to the possibility, however unlikely, that the NX or the Xbox 1.5 (if that exists) is more powerful than the base PS4.
Personally, I think all this PS4 Neo nonsense will do nothing but divide the userbase. Either the base PS4 and PS4 Neo versions of games will likely virtually identical, or the base PS4 versions of games will perform drastically worse ala Hyrule Warriors Legends. There currently appears to be no such trade in programs for the PS4 Neo, so I can't imagine seeing most of the ~40 million current PS4 owners upgrading.
It is what it is.
I own all consoles... here's where I stand.
As for PS4K- not interested. No 4K tv, so it seems a waste of $400 to upgrade. My normal PS4 will do just fine.
NX, that I'm genuinely excited for. Nomatter what it is. Why? Cause it'll have Nintendo games, and Nintendo games are always worth getting excited for. Not to mention is sounds like it'll be as powerful as PS4K and have a more normal sized controller with a screen that displays secondary info rather than stealing the spotlight. That's also exciting.
PSVR I have preordered but I can't say I'm really excited. Have yet to see a single game that I'm hyped for. Maybe that'll change, maybe it won't. Whether I keep my preorder will depend on it though.
@TrueWiiMaster THIS thread is becoming more and more nuts
I'm not happy about PS4K if only because both as a developer and consumer, its a headache. I now HAVE to have compatibility with both models, and the PS4K upscale has to only have graphical improvements, but it HAS to surpass base PS4 settings. Given how third party developers have been known to skimp due to their....ideals....and some games don't hit that 1080p60fps high point, it'll be Hyrule Warriors Legends again. That performance we currently get "maybe" from AAA developers will be for PS4K, so they have to put in less effort and money, and they'll just make it so their version on the base PS4 is subpar to what it can do just to get around this BS requirement.
And what about indies? Do they have to hit this too? If so, I'll be honest, to hell with developing for that box if I'm expected to develop for two systems, produce effectively two different games, on an indy budget. This isn't comparing SNES to Mega Drive, we aren't in the 90s with drastically different hardware anymore people!
Just hope this PS4K and a possible new XBone model don't screw up the NX's launch too much by stealing away the attention.
@westman98 Mr Leadbetter asks himself the same question. He is not sure of the reasons either and say that perhaps at E3 '16 we will find out:
I recommend you all the whole article:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-sonys-plan-for-playstation-4k-neo-revealed
I just got my PS4 so I'll keep my PS4 thanks. I'll wait for the NX to come out before I dive in. I'm pretty patient.
@IceClimbers That was my first concern, that games would be optimised for Neo while PS4 gets whatever is left, like on New 3DS/3DS. PS4 is quite powerful on its own, but who knows? I suppose that we will have to wait and see. For those of us with a console combo (or trio), the current generation has just started, I don't think we'll be upgrading right away.
@IceClimbers From what I've read, Sony will push (no: they demand) a solid frame rate more than anything, so that is apparently going to be the main selling point of PS NEO, besides an upgrade in graphics, obviously, but that fidelity isn't key, so that is why I said in an earlier comment that people expecting some generational leap in graphics over the standard PS4 are going to be unpleasantly surprised. It is going to be incremental at best, also because of Sony not wanting to cause a rift between the two, with all the current owners having far "uglier" versions of games. NEO versions of games will have the frame rate locked at a silky smooth 60fps, graphics at 1080p or slightly higher and some extra bells and whistles here and there, maybe some more advanced AI and such, but no 4K gaming.
Like @rjejr says, that will primarily be for media and streaming.
The main problem I think is with the down-scaling from workstations to dev kits to consoles: with an enclosed box like a console you can only push so far, although reportedly, you can program a console closer to the metal, so a 1 on 1 comparison with a PC isn't entirely possible and obviously console architecture is also more optimized in general, but still.
You see both PS4 and Xbox One struggling with some games, either frame rate or graphics/resolution-wise, (Xbox One a bit more than PS4) and getting an updated machine to developers might be a bit of a stress point at first, but in the end being able to do a bit more or having to downscale less from the first draft of your game would seem quite beneficial to me.
Then again: I'm no developer, so I can only give my point of view from the outside looking in...
@TheRealThanos You seem to be absolutely sure of what you say, even if nobody knows for sure (except for Sony).
There's one thing I'm grateful of Nintendo, they still support older televisions. Yes, my livinroom tv is a crt one, it still works perfectly fine and I have no reason to switch it until it dies.
I'd rather upgrade my PC GPU before thinking about getting a new console. I need the new Deus Ex to look as best as possible. Replaying DE HR on the Wii U was fun though with the controller, one of the few games I enjoyed using it on.
@Project_Dolphin I mean that PS4 is quite powerful on its own and can run games in HD. Of course, it's not designed for 4K. Neo is not absolutely necessary at this point. Just read this (the best article I have found about PS4Neo):
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-sonys-plan-for-playstation-4k-neo-revealed
When I say "who knows" I mean that I don't know how good will future games perform on PS4, but we'll find out in October when those "dual" games launch.
I must emphatically disagree with the article that PC gaming is not influential on the current direction of console hardware. The fact that both XB1 and PS4 are using an x86 architecture for more streamlined porting of PC titles should be indication enough. There is much more beyond that, though. AMD's Polaris GPU architecture will probably be in the NX, and it's going to first be tested out this Summer in the PC market. So AMD will learn how to utilize it first on PC before doing so on NX.
It's also been well known for years that gaming has been one of the driving forces in computer technology breakthroughs, and the PC market is leading the charge. The console market used to do that in the 80s, 90s, and 00s, but not any more. Console technology is now instantly outdated upon release, except for utility devices such as the wireless communicators and gyroscopes used in the Wiimote(+) and Upad. Even the so-called PS4K will probably still be barely any improvement over the PS4, because you still need to spend $1000 to achieve 4K resolution on ultra settings at 30 FPS on PC, and if PS5 will achieve 4K at 40-60 FPS, then it's a ways off. (Unless, of course, Sony goes nuts and releases another $600-700 system for the time, like the original PS3 Blu-Ray bundle.)
That said, I think an upgraded PS4 revision would be successful by learning from the PC market, for three reasons:
1. The upgrade is an entire system, not an add-on or peripheral.
The article uses the Sega CD as a frame of reference, which is an incorrect comparison. The upgraded PS4 would not rely on a peripheral upgrade for the original PS4, and it would just offer higher specs than the original PS4 while playing the same titles, so it wouldn't split the market. One would just buy it as a standalone product, and maybe current PS4 owners could trade in theirs for it at a greatly reduced price.
2. PlayStation consoles have always undergone many revisions, and this would just be a PC market inspired version of that.
Beyond just the physical revisions, such as the slim models, PlayStation consoles have several different versions for each generation. For example, the original PS2, not counting the slim model, had over 10 different revisions. However, those were all infrastructural revisions, which were only important for improving the console's longevity and repairing efficiency. Perhaps this time, the PS4 can have more meaningful revisions than it's predecessors, and offer improved specs for a somewhat increased price.
3. The market has become accustomed to upgrading their hardware more frequently.
This isn't the '80s, '90s, or '00s anymore, when most people were highly skeptical about spending money to upgrade within the same generation of hardware. This is the '10s, where 3-year or even annual upgrades to computer hardware have become commonplace. The market expects this rate of improvement in technology now, and has responded accordingly. It's worked in the PC and mobile market, and it can work in the console market too. (Though perhaps the PS4 is the best positioned for this, and maybe even NX could get in on handheld upgrades.)
Because I was kinda sorta disappointed with my Mario Kart 8 Machine I went out and purchased a PS4. I am huuuuuge into racing games and thought that was the best system for them currently. And now, well, i'm sorta kinda sad and mad because I was REALLY looking forward to PSVR.
@Project_Dolphin Actually, Vulkan and Direct3D 12 are more about "coding to the metal", so it's the other way round: PC games will be more coded to the metal thanks to D3D 12 and Vulkan. Of course, this might benefit consoles too, as porting of games coded to the metal should become easier (at least in the case of XBox One, while it must be seen how PS4 graphics API are similar to OpenGL or Vulkan).
I think NX will just be its own thing, all hints by Nintendo indicate that they want it to be something new - à la Wii - so the raw hardware capabilities shouldn't be again a focus - of course, now PS4 technology is quite affordable, so at least it should be on that level, and if they will use Vulkan and ARM/x86 the developers will only be happier...
@PlywoodStick That's right.
@RobNYC1977 Don't worry. PSVR will be supported by PS4.
@Mister_Wu I think Nintendo will drop those GameCube/Wii/Wii U chips and start using what everybody else. It will be interesting to see the differences between NX and Neo because it looks like they are going to be released around the same time. I wonder what Microsoft will do next, I bet it's going to be a new Xbox backwards compatible that uses the Xbox One controller, that would be really good.
I will be interested to see Sony's PR spin this. I don't think it's as big a deal as some people are making it out to be, but obviously some are pissed, and it's on the PR teams to now try and mitigate the anger. I do think this is a necessary move by Sony though to keep up with tech and especially the NX since I fully believe the rumors of a significantly more powerful console than PS4 are true. Nintendo is under new leadership and with that I think we'll see some philosophy changes, some for the better, some maybe not.
The most interesting part has been how quiet MS is. I'm sure it has something cooking, will it be something big or just very minor iterations is the question. Looking forward to E3. I'm not sure I like everything that may be going on but things change, just have to hope these changing times won't lead to a complete disaster for the industry. We'll see.
@PlywoodStick
Consoles have always been outdated compared to PC hardware and that won't change anytime soon. When top of line video cards cost $400+ there is no way a console will ever have one of them. Even if it did, a new card will come out in 6 months and no console will reboot every 6 months.
I just don't see the parallels between the PS4K and the NX. The PS4K is a mid step like Nintendo has been doing for years on mobile hardware. They are clearly making it so existing users don't have to upgrade and current users aren't harmed much. Will it work? Who knows. NX is a new system. I still think the NX has a big hill to climb since Nintendo has put themselves in a bad place in the market. But I'll wait until I at least see what the NX is before writing it off.
@Project_Dolphin Obviously optimization is more time consuming, but that is still how more is squeezed out of consoles; you can always see the improvements in later titles, of course also because developers will start to get to grips with a console's strengths and weaknesses, but differences with x86 should probably be smaller like you say because porting is probably more straightforward.
The thing that lingers in my mind though, is that it is still an enclosed box, x86 or not, so whereas on PC you would simply have to upgrade to play certain games, and developers won't cater to systems below minimum specs, it is different in consoles because of the longer lifespan. Which leads me again to the conclusion (although it's only my personal assessment based upon some deductive reasoning going by the information we have) that they will still be doing some "close to the metal" programming in comparison to PC, so they will have to optimize anyway.
And historically, the hardware itself is also more optimized, with different parts of the architecture being more in tune with each other than your average (gaming) PC, since oftentimes, these still require a decent amount of tweaking to get the most out of your games, not to mention having to set all kinds of parameters inside the games themselves to get optimal performance on your PC.
A console has to do this automatically, and that is why I said that even though they are starting to look more and more like a PC on the inside, you still can't do a 1 on 1 comparison of a console vs a PC.
@VanillaLake Like I explained in the first part of this comment, I simply use deductive reasoning based on information that is known and then I go from there. I do have an IT background, so I'm not entirely unfamiliar with certain types of hardware and their functionalities: I used to sell HP's graphical workstations/CAD systems and such, and besides that, tinkering with PC's (and consoles) is a hobby of mine, but I certainly don't pretend to know more than a company itself, but sometimes when you end up having a couple of options left, you can remove one or two and then come to an almost certain conclusion of what it must be, even though that might still be an unlikely option at first sight. That is the very definition of deductive reasoning.
I can recommend anyone to read up on it; it's interesting stuff if you're into that kind of thing...
@VanillaLake It's sad that a good console is underrated just because it has "less visuals" than another. (Though I really can't tell from one another).
@cleveland124 True, but back in the '80s, '90s, and '00s, console hardware was FAR cheaper to achieve dedicated gaming results. It costed at least two to five times as much as a console for equivalent gaming performance on a PC back then. At this point, PC's can just brute force their way into good gaming performance, and they're much cheaper than in the past for a decent system.
An $800 PC can take one as far today as a $2000+ PC would have equivalently provided for their time fifteen years ago. Software deals have gotten to the point where PC's are now cheaper overall than consoles for gaming, if one waits for holiday and seasonal sales.
So yes, times have changed, drastically.
As much as I hate all of this crap as a gamer, I do laugh my ass off at how TMZ the whole industry has become. Not shocking really..
And in a complete brain fart, I just now realized that those kids I grew up with playing Amiga were PC gamers. ?! I think there were Atari computers around for a while still at that time, because I got one at a flea market for 5 bux, but when I brought it home I attached it to a tv and all it was was a keyboard, literally. I just typed and the letter appeared on the screen. I had no idea software was supposed to go into it, nor my grandparents who raised me.
Okay, sorry for the tangent there, but it brings up an interesting point... The people PURCHASHING these machines need to be aware of what they do/function for. That never happened with the Wii U. Maybe it has, I'm not a parent so I don't probably get bombarded with parent spam.
I'm going to pray to the gods of 4/20 (hello, 3 hours from now!) and believe, FIRMLY, that the NX is going to be amazing. I am going to be a day one purchaser and run with it. I felt so burned by the Wii U that I totally believe it deep within my cells that Nintendo is going to make it right again, for us.
Call me crazy!
@TheRealThanos More like porting to and from consoles is now exponentially more straightforward... In the past, a doctorate in computer wizardry and a blood pact with the devil was required to make a PC to console port, or vice versa... In this generation, it's basically just porting from a regular PC to an ever so lightly customized PC, or vice versa! The NX will probably also be the same way, so it wouldn't be left out from third party offerings.
@PlywoodStick Well, almost but not quite: like the article says, first drafts of more ambitious games are oftentimes developed on heavy workstations, far exceeding either the specs of a console or even a gaming PC, so they will need to downgrade and see what works and what doesn't by test driving it on a dev kit, but it is indeed more straightforward than going from PC to PPC and back for optimization...
Playstation Neo is just an upgraded system to work with the new TV's, not one to replace the current PS4...the games still will work on both, and that's coming from the Sony Website themselves. It's not a way for Sony to take the glory from Nintendo, especially with the PS4 selling this powerfully.
Nintendo will do fine. I'm actually excited to see what the NX is and what it will do, and I'm currently waiting to purchase that instead of Playstation VR. It's nintendo, what could go wrong? (That's my opinion). Wii U has its struggles, but I still enjoy it...just wish more retail games came along at a quicker pace the the retail game library was bigger, but I was happy with the Gamecube too...that being my favorite for that generation and it had a lot of games for that! The Wii U may not be my favorite this generation (again, probably due to the lack of retail games) but I still enjoy it.
As for the issue, nintendo should do fine. The only thing that will get in their way is the Playstation VR...since that itself is a pricey piece of equipment, but who knows if the hype for it will last. If the NX starts out slow, it could pick up speed (even though the system can't really start out too slow). Microsoft will go the same way with sony...if the Playstation Neo takes off and starts to sell a little...nintendo will wait, nintendo always waits, but rumors are rumors, and no one really knows what the NX will do or how powerful it will be.
'obviously'
I didn't say a word ☺️
Whew. Thankfully I haven't bought a PS4 yet, so I can just wait for the PS4+
I just got PS4 and I don't have a 4k tv (something I could never see myself getting anyway) so I am as friendly as Agent Smith to Neo.
Great article, I really dug it.
Whatever the NX is, I'm on board. My Wii U was a launch day purchase and I'm an admitted fanboy. Still, it does feel too soon. I miss the days of my console ensuring 5-7 years of new titles. The Wii U feels like a misfire, as much as I enjoy it.
@sleepinglion
Whenever I get the NX, my Wii U will still be hooked up just like my PS3 is after getting my PS4.
It might not have a ton of games but there are great games for it and off tv play, even for things like Netflix is fantastic.
If I had a PS4, I think I'd be a bit miffed that they were improving it already, similarly to how everyone's miffed about the New 3DS. Only difference is the 3DS has been out for longer than the PS4, so it makes a bit more sense. Either way though, they [3DS, PS4, WiiU, XBONE] were clearly underpowered from the get go, and I think we can all agree there wasn't as obvious a generation leap as there arguably should have been.
In regards to having mid-generation console upgrades, yeah sure. Why not? So long as it's worthwhile. I wouldn't be happy with the PS4 upgrade purely because I don't think the original PS4 has proven to be worth the purchase yet. Where are all the games? How is it selling so well?
I hate to say it but I think the NX is going to have a really hard time. I will get one day one, but to have success like the Wii, I think it needs something VERY special.
I'm excited for all of it. Being mostly a Nintendo gamer, I've always gravitated towards them because the games, not so much the graphics. If you want Nintendo then buy their systems. If your worried about backward compatibility then keep the prior gen system, (my biggest regret in gaming is not keeping my prior systems). It should be that easy. These companies care about one thing and it's making money. Nintendo totally got me from moving to a 3DS XL to a New 3DS XL and I don't regret that decision at all. Little tweaks here and there are what makes it possible to make the bigger leaps and bounds. There should only be one major reason to have any current gen console in your home or all three, that reason is the exclusive content each console offers. If you're in Uncharted then have a PS4, that doesn't mean you shouldn't also have a Nintendo system because you're into Pokemon or Zelda, or Xbox for Halo. Yes it can get expensive but obviously gaming is what we love. Spend your money on you love to do.
@VanillaLake I would disagree with Nintendo not caring about hardcore. They initially didn't like the mobile idea, but eventually went with it, as they said it would be great to make money there with ges specifically designed for it, that would also draw people into playing those franchises full games on their dedicated consoles.
@Blastcorp64 I think the new PS4 is designed for those who do have 4K, but more importantly, to allow for better support of the VR technology
The PS4k or 'Neo' will only benefit the NX. Sure Nintendo is going to have to plug more into marketing dollars (which should have been on the cards anyway) but people are much more likely to be open to the idea of a new system if there is more than one new system coming.
Rather than releasing in a mid-generation void, the PS4K has justified NX's exitence and will no doubt help boost the NX's profile, and hopefully, it's sales.
'Why would I buy another PS4 for $400 (rumoured) when I can get a whole new console for $300-350?' If Nintendo does their marketing (and the product itself) right, this will be the conversation on the industry's lips.
@Project_Dolphin I'm not sure I agree, and your logic seems a flawed. What exactly is the reason that PS4k 'has' to be a response to NX?
When has Sony ever cared about what Nintendo is doing? Why should they? Nintendo hasn't been a direct competitor of Sony's since the launch of the Wii ten years ago.
As mentioned in my previous comment, the release of a PS4K only helps Nintendo because it justifies its position in the marketplace, rather than leaving it in a mid-generational void that nobody really cares about.
The PS4K isn't a response to Nintendo, it's based purely on the PS4's lack of power and the need to upgrade it for things like VR to operate smoothly.
@westman98 It won't devide the userbase at all, because if they rumours are true then ALL games developed for PS4 will have to function as-is on PS4K, and vice versa. There will be no PS4K 'exclusives' like Xenoblade Chronicles 3D.
You've answered your own question. Like you said, the PS4 is the most successful current gen console by a large margin, so they should want to build on that success. That's what Nintendo should have done with the original Wii; if the Wii U had launched 3-4 years into the Wii's lifespan while it was still the 'must have' device, it would have had a much more successful launch.
@Project_Dolphin "No matter how you look at this, the PS4 upgrade has to be a response to the NX."
I have to agree with @Mogster because first you say it is a reaction from Sony to the NX, and then you say:
"Nintendo can't simply play the graphics hardware game... "
So that is kind of opposite. Plans from Sony were already going on, partially brought on by an unsatisfied management, that saw several games being less visually grand than they wanted and also struggling with frame rates. Several games can be named as example, and measures taken since can also be seen as hints to the disgruntlement of Sony. (disbanding/lay-offs of software teams such as the one behind Drive Club)
That is in no way reactionary to NX or whoever. It is simply a party trying to solidify it's leading position and ironing out the kinks. Leaders do not fear followers and don't have to take measures for adversaries not even on the market yet, like NX. The gimmick they will bring would then have to be something in the form of one of those "Megaton" announcements that we used to have at E3, and even then, the head start that Sony has will probably never be in danger.
"Some Nintendo Life posters might not want to admit this, but the NX's gimmick is crucial to the NX's sales success."
So, I can only partially agree with this statement since it's not going to be the "be all and end all". Software is key, both third party but also first party, and if they truly want to honor Iwata, like some article said a while back, then they better bring their A-game.
Speaking of which, and suitably labeled Megaton announcement (well at least somewhat) here's a bit of interesting news, right after this nuke...
https://arcadegirl64.wordpress.com/2016/04/20/Nxs-software-output/
Miss Rogers has spoken again...
@ElkinFencer10 It has been regarded for years in Console terms.
For a Console to be reagarded as 'NEXT GENERATION', the technology inside, primarily the CPU and GPU/GPGPU has to be at least 2 years newer than the previous console.
So, if 'NX' turns out to be a brand new cpnsole, then it would have to be regarded as a 9th Gen console. However, if 'NX' is an add-on for Wii U, then I presume the Wii U would still stay as an 8th Generation console.
@TheRealThanos Still, some things are not entirely clear, but I can feel your eagerness. I'm curious about what are Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft planning, but after just a couple of years since this eight generation started, I'm not willing to buy a new console at the moment. It's good to know what's coming, though.
@G3ry Right, I know.
Microsoft must be planning something because of NX and PS4 Neo, a newer Xbox backwards compatible and using the same interface and controller would be the best decision, so players could still use their 360 and Xbox One games and the awesome Xbox One controller.
@ptto911 You are probably right and I hope so.
EDIT: Thank you all for all the positive feedback.
@VanillaLake "I'm not willing to buy a new console at the moment"
Oh, me neither, and I haven't even bought one of the current consoles yet. But eager is indeed what I am. Nintendo really has to give us some info already. Oh well...
@TheRealThanos Are you so into Nintendo and yet haven't bought a Wii U or 3DS?? How come??
I have a 3DS XL, so I'm good. And I have every console up to now, as well as an Xbox 360 and a Sega Dreamcast, all with giant back logs, so I'm good for the next 5 years. Main reason for not dipping my toes into the current generation is money and time: I've been busy getting my one-man business off the ground this year, and next to a lot of time that this cost me, it also cost me the necessary investments, so buying a console wasn't really very high on my list of priorities...
But right now the company has been running for about a month and I expect to have some leftover cash before the end of this year, so both the Wii U and the NX will definitely be added to the collection, as well as an Xbox One. All of which will add even more stuff to my back log... pffff... I need an extra life or two...
@TheRealThanos Oh, I see. I have a big back log too, I think most of us do, and yet we seem to be desperate for more games and consoles to be released. It's weird. Oh, this pointless Internet Hype Era...
@ToneBoTic This is probably one of the most positive comments I've ever read on this site, and I'm right with you on everything you say. Thank you for being a little light in this thread.
@VanillaLake Well, pointless? I wouldn't go that far. For me, in the case of the Xbox 360, and ESPECIALLY the Dreamcast (which I bought quite late) it was simply a question of titles I wanted and that had to be bought or else they would never be available again, so better buy them now and play later, than try to buy them later only to find out that you can't get these games anymore, or only on eBay for $900 a piece...
@Mogster That's such an incredible point! And that's exactly what the market would think. I'm actually sitting here in awe with how well thought out that is! I commend you for thinking of it.
@Project_Dolphin Well, funnily enough we agree for the most part, only we are doing the whole semantics thing, to-may-toe, to-mah-toe and what not.
Like I also said before:
"That is in no way reactionary to NX or whoever. It is simply a party trying to solidify it's leading position and ironing out the kinks."
Which is basically the last point you made just now, except in your own words...
@TheRealThanos I do not mean that, but what I wrote. LOL
Buying old consoles is fine, I bought a French RGB Nintendo 64 just recently and I was lucky enough to find one for a fair price. It makes a huge difference compared to regular N64s.
@Project_Dolphin Well, if they are doing so simply to maintain their lead, then it is most likely not reactionary but pre-emptive, and the latter does not need a catalyst, especially one that still has to prove that it is going to gain some traction, if any...
@TheHeroOfTime333 Thanks! People are just excited! I am too. It's so much fun to speculated. I'm so pumped for the NX it's going to rock I can feel it.
@TheRealThanos @VanillaLake Actually, I agree with you both, but Dolphin may have a point. Yes, this may have been thought out. I think it just has to do with PSVR coming out this year mainly.
But it's possible it was also timed to come out with NX. I feel this is just a lucky coincidence for them, but yeah
@ptto911 At the very most, I could say that it might be to steal a bit of NX's thunder, but ultimately, if Nintendo really is on to something and besides it being powerful enough, NX will also be something truly unique that will resonate with the audience, then no amount of extra power is actually going to make a dent in that presence.
55,5 days left to find out what's truly what...
http://www.e3countdown.com/
@Project_Dolphin I'll be glad if Nintendo comes out with some damn info already. I'm definitely no fan of Sony's, but they are doing really good, and this is another interesting move they are making, so Nintendo better come packing some heat this E3...
Either way, I have this feeling that overall, this is once again going to be one of those truly memorable E3's that we will be talking about for years to come, for all consoles...
@VanillaLake I disagree mainly because the xbox one lacks Jrpgs which I love. So the xbox is lame to me even if it has a better controller or interface. Sure it managed to get a couple of the big ones in ff 15 and kingdom hearts 3, but it has no tales of, star ocean, persona 5, ni no kuni 2, and many other jrpgs.
@Mogster I would buy another ps4 simply because of jrpgs. It has more than xbox and nintendo combined on consoles. Infact the handheld nintendo devices are better in that regard as well.
@rpgczar Yeah, I also posted that the best console for each person is the one that has the games they want the most. What I mean is that the Xbox One controller and the interface are top-notch. This generation is atypical for me because I have the three consoles for the first time in my life. The console that has impressed me the most is Xbox One, but I could not part with my Wii U because I need to have some games: Tropical Freeze, Maiden of Black Water, Pikmin 3, etc.
@rpgczar Since I have a PS4 too, what are your favourite games on it?
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