Soapbox: It's too Early to Judge Paper Mario: Color Splash

Still not going to buy it. I've stopped caring about Paper Mario games.

I may still buy it, but I'm not making the mistake of getting it digitally like I did with Sticker Star. That game was basically a play once and be done with it forever kind of game.

I really am quite excited by this game and I'll be definitely making a purchase, assuming the reviews aren't bad.

Final Fantasy XII. Chrono Cross. Sonic Heroes. Other M. I've played too many games that fans have hated, yet are actually good (or great), to assume Sticker Star is as bad as it's made out to be, let alone that Color Splash will be bad, too. Besides, the idea of a card-based battle system with custom decks sounds fantastic.

If it actually has a story and dialogue then I'd change my mind about not keeping it. But yeah, Sticker Star pretty much had none, Bowser doesn't even talk, tried playing the game again...I just couldn't.

Why did they ever stray from the formula that made the original Paper Mario and its sequel, The Thousand Year Door, so great? I can imagine one departure in the form of Wii's Super Paper Mario, but why keep on doing it after that? :/ The handheld Mario & Luigi games have remained fantastic, while also innovating with each new outing...

This game is another example of the paper in paper mario and I liked playing sticker star which is expanding the paper book style of the game and since it is a wii u title we can have a better story since the game is naturally longer for being on a console.

Colour me... Turquoise with disappointment?

"It is entirely possible that the game will be wonderful and enjoyed by thousands, even millions, but it is also just as likely at this stage that it's going to be a bit of a flop in the eyes of fans old and new."

Really? It's "just as likely"? Based on what? A few seconds of gameplay footage? Argumentum ad temperantium was tiresome when I was a child--here it's just farcical.

Remember we all panned SM3DW when we first saw it and it turned out great

Somehow I unsubscribed from NL's Youtube...no clue how that happened. >_>

I already brought that up in the forums, and I will add it here: the game has been rated by PEGI and USK

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Wii-U/Paper-Mario-Color-Splash-1090845.html

https://www.nintendo.de/Spiele/Wii-U/Paper-Mario-Color-Splash-1090845.html

Does this mean that at least the content in term of script, cutscenes and animations is complete? Or are the ratings given before the game's content is complete?

As long as the combat isn't the same as the dreadfully boring sticker system I'm open to this one. Sticker Star may have been a dud but that doesn't mean the series is dead forever.

I'm looking forward to this one. I enjoyed Sticker Star, and I haven't played the other 3 Paper Mario games.

Too early? Nah. The footage alone showed us combat is unchanged from Sticker Star. There's no EXP. No partners as of yet. Can almost certainly bank on the same lack of badges and RPG elements.

So yeah. It is going to suck. Sorry if those of us tired of hoping for more TTYD turn on anything that doesn't fit the bill. You guys can stay hopeful. Nothing's stopping you.

The environment looks like it was made in Unity, they showed a lousy map with level selection, same boring toads like the last PM games, painting gimmick, the exact same "real world" attacks like in Sticker Star. I say we're right on time judging another wasteful use of the Paper Mario franchise.

I loved thousand year door! the paper airplane one was just too easy and not as funny. I hope they put in a hard mode; even if its locked behind amiibo dlc, then i am totally in! This looks gorgeous.

I'm sorry but the point of trailers are to judge a game and hopefully build up hype. If they don't want a game to be judged, they should never release a trailer.

However, for this, I don't think it is too early, we saw the combat, we know it is basically generic toads everywhere. There doesn't seem to be a partner and it is a card based system, similar to Sticker Star. That is enough to make me never want to buy. I'll still watch but I am not optimistic.

I was all for the map system with separate levels and sticker combat but the lack of exp and levelling up made the battles seem completely pointless. Add levelling up back and I will be interested.

It's never too early to judge new games. However, it's often good to reconsider the judgement once more info emerges.

This is another good talk about the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JBbcaLsyZI

By the way, this isn't my video, it's just one I found interesting, just like this article's video.

I'm trying to reserve judgement but it's difficult. So far it just seems like a skip to me

All of this just reminds me way too much of Sticker Star. And regarding the track-record of Mario games lately, it doesn't help much - quite the opposite in fact. Sticker Star, every M&L since Inside Story, Mario 9-10, Mario Tennis, New Super Mario Bros., Mario 3D Land, Mario 3D World - all of them just felt too "paint by number" and utterly souless. Just the generic squeeky cleaniness of the NSMB series. Like, most of the games that I listed I still consider to be good but are nowhere near as great and UNIQUE as Mario's games from NES to GameCube/Wii era. This trend especially concerns me for Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi because both are rpgs that live and breathe from their originality and personality. Taking that away just leaves the dried-out remains of the first two installments of the respective franchises.

What also disappoints me about Color Splash specifically is the fact that they have the theme of color but don't - as far as we can see - allow you to choose which color to paint with. Imagine: You find a white spot. You fill it with Green, grass grows and you're rewarded a few coins. But fill it with Blue and a path to a secret cave appears where you potentially find a hidden item or two. And if you fill it with Red, it turns into lava and you could lead your enemies into it so you don't have to fight them. I may not be a game developer but I think such a feature could lead to some interesting and unique puzzles.

If some didn't have something silly to whine and complain about, they wouldn't have anything to talk about at all.

The new yet to re released Zelda, will not live up to expectations, it will prove not to have been worth the wait. Ok reviewers will give it an 8 or 9 but that will be because it's Zelda. Mulit sites will give it a well deserved 7.

Those that like Zelda may have something to say about my comments.

Same thing applies to the new Paper Mario.

I like Paper Mario games.

@zool What does Zelda have to do with this?

@RedDevilAde Oh yeah, when that 2nd trailer came out everyone wanted it.

To this day, I don't know how people can judge anyone or anything without having any personal experience with that thing/person. I disregard all opinions unless there is legitimate experience with said opinion.

I just hope battling isn't reliant on any kind of depletable resource

Have I missed something? Why are people raging at this game?

Normally I would agree, and if things change during development then I would also change my mind. But when it comes to Paper Mario, the decline has already started, and if Shigsy has a say in it then it'll remain so.

The thing is Miyamoto doesn't want narrative anywhere near Mario. In an interview on Nintendo Life itself Sticker Star dev members stated that many of these elements were removed on his recommendation. Yoshiaki Koizumi has also gone on the record with the difficulties of including narrative too in Super Mario Galaxy. Because of Miyamoto's status within the company, no one is going to argue with him.

But for a game series that is a spin-off and had it's greatest hits with narrative, live action commands, a partner battling system - I feel it's misjudged to go in this direction. And it's pretty clear that Color Splash is going down a stripped down route like Sticker Star.

The thing is, I really wish I didn't have to write that about a Paper Mario game, and I accept my view my seem grating or even ridiculous - but these types of views come about because people are afraid that we'll get another lacklustre game when the series could reach the same heights it did in the past.

Is it too early to judge Federation Force too? Was it too early to judge Sticker Star when it showed the first gameplay mechanics?

You have to be very optimistic about Nintendo nowadays, they're simply ignoring opinions about what make their games fail among player community. Sometimes it sounds like George Lucas about his movies made for himself.

Here's the thing: while yes, we only saw a little bit of the game, it looked exactly like Sticker Star, but with paint. And considering that Sticker Star is the most hated game in the series, I think that it's pretty obvious that people would be a little pi$$ed off.

Well, at least the Wii U will have a good Paper Mario either way...thanks to the Virtual Console.

It may be too early to automatically deem this game to be a bad one, yes, but that doesn't mean we can't look at the gameplay footage and see that this is clearly not the Paper Mario anyone wanted.

The Wind Waker comparison is not an applicable one because WW was still, at its core, a mainline Zelda game. People hated the art style a lot but the mechanics are clearly recognizable as Zelda. Paper Mario Color Splash, meanwhile, is totally unrecognizable to its foundational predecessors (PM and TTYD) in terms of mechanics. It is not mechanically a "Paper Mario" game at all, not if we're comparing it to the original PM and TTYD. Instead it's clearly a follow up to the worst game in the franchise (which I assumed was a spinoff, but that's clearly not the case anymore) rather than a return to the traditional RPG gameplay that made the originals such excellent games. What we can glean from the footage is that Paper Mario still seems to be Paper Mario in name only.

Yes, it is too early to judge the overall quality of the game, and I'm all for Nintendo trying new things. But sequels in franchises are meant to refine an already-existing formula, not throw the baby out with the bath water and transform it into something completely irrelevant to what makes the franchise what it is. Nintendo still doesn't seem to perceive what fans want out of the Paper Mario series, and that is what's most baffling. I hope I'm proven wrong about my expections of this game, but I doubt that I will be.

It remains a mystery to me why nintendo doesnt listen to its fans, I guess they make their own thing and you either take it or leave it. Sometimes the results are great and sometimes you just wonder what you are really dealing with. Still, I guess this one will be better than mario party or amiibo festival . Probably gonna get it, after I have read/watched some reviews.

@Churchy "Because of Miyamoto's status within the company, no one is going to argue with him." Company hierarchy SHOULD dictate that Tatsumi Kimishima can argue as he is THE boss there.

@Andrzej777 fans largely don't know what they want

Not getting this game probably. They burned me with sticker star, not happening again.

@rushiosan Couldn't agree more. Just as Federation Force is Metroid in name only, Paper Mario Sticker Star/Color Splash appear to be Paper Mario in name only, because the mechanics no longer resemble what constitutes a "Paper Mario" game. Nintendo seems content to throw literally any game under the umbrella of a preexisting IP just to make it sell better, even when the game doesn't have any resemblance to what makes the franchise what it is (Federation Force, Animal Crossing Amiibo festival, Paper Mario Sticker Star, Starfox Guard, etc.).

Really unhappy with where Nintendo is right now. Definitely doesn't help that Miyamoto has so much say in Nintendo's development lately either. His best ideas are far, far behind him.

The huge amount of toads is my main warning sign, as toads are a big part of what makes all recent Mario RPGs dumbed down and uninspired. That, and the lack of original characters and depth. This just feels like Sticker Star 2. Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam was also dumbed down and filled with stupid toads, and that game was my final straw. Nintendo doesn't care anymore.

I don't judge Paper Mario Color Splash but I accuse it.

I personally think people are being too hard on a series that has more good entries (Paper Mario, thousands years door, Super Paper Mario, Paper Jam) than bad entries (Sticker Star) and should be happy we are getting a new Paper Mario game on Wii U. I choose to be optimistic, cause usually this series is great

No, it isn't.
There's no point in feigning ignorance.
It won't have the kind of story or characters that made this series great.

@Project_Dolphin Then by that logic Nintendo should'ave stayed with Super Paper Mario formula. Cause that game sold 3 million comrade.

The game is pretty, but other than that only speculation is holding my interest in the game.

@GoldenGamer88 "And regarding the track-record of Mario games lately, it doesn't help much - quite the opposite in fact. Sticker Star, every M&L since Inside Story, Mario 9-10, Mario Tennis, New Super Mario Bros., Mario 3D Land, Mario 3D World - all of them just felt too "paint by number" and utterly souless. Just the generic squeeky cleaniness of the NSMB series. Like, most of the games that I listed I still consider to be good but are nowhere near as great and UNIQUE as Mario's games from NES to GameCube/Wii era."

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this. This is an especially alarming trend considering Nintendo has traditionally had a reputation for quality games. The hardware is not the greatest, but at least the games are imaginative and innovative. At least that's what the consensus usually is.

But we've now reached a point where even that statement can be called into question. Mario Tennis, Mario Party 10, and Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival were three of the worst reviewed games last year. Mario Tennis especially was one of the most half-assed attempts at a game I've ever seen Nintendo make. Star Fox, while it looks like it plays smoothly, still looks dreadfully ugly, paint-by-numbers, and unimaginative. And that's after its revisions and delay. Mario games, as you've said, have been remarkably stiff and soulless this generation, which is shocking to say about a franchise that contains the likes of SMB3 and Super Mario Galaxy. And now we have Paper Mario Color Splash, which looks equally mechanical and soulless. It's like Nintendo devs are putting out games not because they want to, but because they have to.

This generation has not only cast significant doubt over Nintendo's ability to make competitive hardware, but also its ability to make innovative and heartfelt software. When the Legend of Zelda is quite literally the only game that looks to live up to that standard in the future, there is a bit of a problem.

Still too eariler to say but from the game trailer shown, it seems to be off to a rather bad start following in the same steps as Sticker Star.

My only experience with the series is TTYD which I found & picked for the GameCube a few months back & just fell in love with it with the script, partners, locations, battle system etc, & also Sticker Star.

Despite picking it up day one, it just didn't click or hook me in the same way although I did like its jazzy soundtrack & visuals. Only put in 12 hours til I eventually gave up.

Remaining hopeful that Nintendo will show off details nearer the release of some features from the earlier games but that's a long shot more than anything I guess. It does look pretty though but that's not enough alone to really keep my interest in it.

@Project_Dolphin By that logic, this game should be like Super, since it sold twice that amount. Also, a lot of people got the game figuring that it would be like the first two...now that we've gotten a bit of a taste of what Sticker Star had to offer, I don't think people are going to be as forgiving this time around.

@Sticker I am making an analogy about two games we know almost nothing about, yet we can have opinions about them. Just as a lot of people don't seem to like the New Paper Mario, I have made a comparison about how I could not like the new Zelda.

It would be like judging a book based off the first page. Give it a chance.

I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed Sticker Star, as well as the other Paper Mario titles, but I won't lie and say that after seeing the trailers for Color Splash, I feel mixed about it. The entire game seems to be taking after the Sticker Star aspects, particularly in gameplay, but that's all I'll say and I won't judge the game just yet unlike many others are making it out to be.

Whenever reveal trailers like this are an announcement for a game that I want, I always hold judgment for those games until enough info is released. I mean, I was going to buy Mario Party: Island Tour until after seeing enough of what the game offered upon release on websites, which had threw my interest for it out the window. I was also going to buy Mario Tennis Open until seeing how much "content" it had, I had to pass it up until being able to buy it under a sale, leaving me very disappointed in the end. As for Color Splash, until more info about it is released (like...what is the incentive to coloring in Blank Spots? How do you exactly increase your paint gauge?), I ain't saying my final thoughts yet.

Now, don't get me wrong: I too would want the series to go back to its roots with the first two games (and bringing back some ideas from SPM and SS as well, with Recipe Disks and 9,999 coin capacity to name the few) since I loved Paper Mario the most with the first two entries, but I also don't mind new ideas introduced throughout the series. I do hope Nintendo and Intelligent Systems truly open their ears to the fanbase, though, and somehow combine features that both fans and the developers want for the next Paper Mario game.

Even though the entirety of the game may be too early to judge, we can judge what they gave us from the Direct. In it, they defined Paper Mario as an action-adventure game. Well... that's disappointing to hear because that statement alone shows that this might be Sticker Star 2. After all, in an "Iwata Asks", it was said that Sticker Star will be the new direction the series was taking.

Looking on the bright side, at least it could be Sticker Star done right and it can be a good game on its own merits, but it doesn't mean that it will be a good game compared to the rest of the Paper Mario games (because I don't think it can live up to the overall quality of those games; that's probably a given at this point).

@RedDevilAde That's the first thing that came to my mind, Most people were hating on the E3 trailer, then the world trailer, that one with the hisstocrat boss music came and people decided to give it a chance... a chance that made 3dworld even top in 3d mario games for some people.

I'm sure it'll be a very good game in it's own right. It's just not the Paper Mario we're waiting for. They've taken one of the best RPG spin-offs and decided it should be something else. How could they take a look at the hugely popular and successful Thousand Year Door and essentially throw out everything that made it brilliant and start from scratch? Meanwhile, spin-offs that do need new ideas and originality, such as Mario Tennis, are being churned out with nothing to improve on previous titles.

I thought the graphics portrayed the physicality of paper very well (to the same degree Kirby was clay and Yoshi was yarn). I am not disappointed by the look, but Sticker Star left a bad taste for me to get excited.

Well, I can tell you right away that while the particular artistic/stylistic approach is technically accomplished, I don't actually think it works quite as well/cohesively as in some of the previous games. I'd rather they stuck with the more cartoon-drawn-on-paper look for everything than the slightly dull and generic real-cut-out-paper mixed with cartoon-characters-drawn-on-paper-but-with-unecessary-thick-white-outlines look they've went with here.

For example, I think this this kind of look just works better overall for the Paper Mario series (I picked this VR version just because I think it looks cool in actual 3D):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OuIFLmLGx8&list=PLgzzAlT_CcFfyTE2R8dnHKns8-9IUzzO2&index=23

And this too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FWq5nLcUCs&list=PL-7t9DoIELCSKtID8HHZoErpDFBqI5kcb

Put that in 1080p, 60fps and I prefer it to what they've gone for in the new game.

The new version still looks good aesthetically, but I just think it's a little off and the different elements clash with each other in some ways, such that the characters and levels don't look like they're actually from the same game artistically in some ways.

Now, here's a game that nails a single cohesive look for everything (although I don't actually think it would suit a Paper Mario game perfectly, because it lacks the more vibrant colours that Mario is know for):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWA9AXOViGE&index=5&list=PLIhLvue17Sd5E75N5z8hK0-X7LXgGsJA5

@Dakt Well there's something we can all agree on.

@Alundra-1998 Haha, it's a fair point! But I think a better choice of words would've been "track record". As far as I can tell Kimishima (or TK as his chums call him), is more business orientated - although I don't take anything away from him.

Nintendo has a habit of changing what already works great as is and usually it's for the worse. They must know from feedback over the years that people want their paper Mario back but they aren't listening.

@Project_Dolphin You're original comment is still implying Nintendo is making this game like Sticker star cause it sold well. Then again they should'ave considered making a sequel to Super Paper Mario. Which sold more than both.
And one more thing just because sticker star sold well. Doesn't mean this one will. People

I'm looking forward to it, saw the trailer, and felt pretty pleased it's coming to Wii U.
And quite frankly, agree it's far too early to judge.

@Browny
"Sorry if those of us tired of hoping for more TTYD turn on anything that doesn't fit the bill"

Well that's the thing. We all want another game like The Thousand Year Door. Who in their right mind wouldn't!

The difference between people who are constantly angry about this series and those who are hopeful, is that one group actually thinks a sequel to that one Paper Mario game everyone loved could still happen, while the rest of us have already accepted its' death.

As such, we've made our peace with it and moved on. This is just a totally different franchise we're excited to play. It really has nothing to do with traditional Paper Mario or TTYD, but it looks like a fun game in its' own right.

Yeah I agree, it's too early, but the forum on this website has already pushed it off and agrees it should be trashed, and everyone has prematurely moved on from this already based on the fact that we've seen 10 seconds of gameplay and everyone automatically just said "ITS STICKER STAR 2" and that killed most of the hype before anyone even found out what's going on.

Reading the comments here the only thing I'm seeing are people saying this is going to be 'the worst game ever made' because it's not like the first game, which I find to be a very silly train of thought. Never mind the fact that we only have one trailer, which arguably didn't show that much of the battle system, which is what most people are hung up on. I, for one, am one of the few people who did not want to throw SS into the depths of hell after playing it, so I'm looking forward to seeing more of this.
EDIT: Oh, and for those wondering; TTYD is my favourite game of all time. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy any of the other games in the series, or that everything has to be just like it. I'd rather have Nintendo fully commit to something creative than to have them make a half-baked sequel to TTYD just because fans demand them to.

The difference here is that Color Splash looks like it could be a decent game on it's own, but isn't what fans are looking for in a Paper Mario game.

Sticker Star on the other hand, is a garbage game period.

Even is Color Splash is kind of "Sticker Star 2" now, it doesn't mean that Color Splash can change during development and get more RPG mechanics :+).

Still I do think the paint battle system will be better than we think in terms of that it can be a good technically resource managing game, but I am more concerned about that we have to tap our finger on the card and flick it to active as I can imagine it become a bit boring after a while ;^^.

I actually went back to Sticker Star today to see if I could maybe progress as I was pretty stuck for a while, but now I solved my problem and I am enjoying it :+). (Still a part of me miss getting EXP, but why complain too much as it doesn't help me).

No matter what happens I think, I will likely play Color Splash and enjoy it no matter what happens really ^^. (I just can't get mad at games for some reasons... which I don't mind).

I quite liked Sticker Star, but I haven't played any other games in the Paper Mario series (yet). I'll give Color Splash a chance (an even bigger chance if they rename as it should be in the UK: Colour Splash!) However, it's not possible to ignore the amount of people calling this a missed opportunity. There have been a few recent releases that haven't lived up to expectations in general and perhaps Nintendo should take note. Still hoping for the best with this, though.

I'm remaining optimistic, but I do wish the battle system was more "generic" like TTYD. I'm not a fan of looking back and forth between the TV and Gamepad, so I'm not liking the idea of a deck of cards. With the battle system set up like this, it also probably means no off TV play. That doesn't bother me much at all, but I know that's a big concern to some people.

I know Sticker Star wasn't that great, but I at least liked how it was semi-creative with all the different stickers. To me, Color Splash is Splatoon + De Blob. Even saving all the Toads from the houses is clearly De Blob! And Splatoon comes in with all the paint splashing everywhere. I usually expect Paper Mario games to be quite creative, but Color Splash isn't looking like it will be.

Besides those points though, I'm still excited for this game. Will it be TTYD? Of course not, but hey, it'll probably be better than Sticker Star!

@RedDevilAde Perfect point.

It's too early to say whether it's going to be a good or bad game, but it's not too early to say that it's not going to be a 'proper' Paper Mario game.

Myself, I'm heartbroken - not only that they've taken the series in a shallower direction, but more that it seems they're not even going to say that it was ever an RPG at all. I hope that some day we'll get the true sequel to Paper Mario 2 that 99% of people would rather have. Maybe they'll go full circle and call it Paper Mario RPG.

It's not impossible. Just look how long we've waited for a proper sequel to Starfox 64. Okay, the newest installment seems to be more of a *re*quel than an actual sequel, but It's encouraging that they've actually listened and are actually doing another proper Starfox game.

I hope someday for another proper Mario Party game. I was reminded somehow recently about exactly why that series turned to crap - it's because they made Wii Party/Wii Party U to be it's replacement. The fact that that series exists had completely slipped my mind.

I think that Paper Mario Color Splash will probably be a reasonably good game - probably scoring around 7/10 on average. Good, but nothing outstanding, type of thing. Assuming such, I'm torn on whether or not to buy it. If it flops, will Nintendo decide we hate Paper Mario and cancel it altogether, or will they decide that they've taken it in the wrong direction and put the ship back on course?

It looks like a pretty good game but a bad Paper Mario game.

As someone who has no nostalgia at all for the first two games, i don't necessarily want TTYD 2. What I do want is something that isn't bland, gimmicky garbage like Sticker Star, and this looks like it's going to be more of the same. I'm willing to change my opinion on this if details release that make it look more appealing, but for now, this is not on my radar at all.

I say wait until you play it before judging it like Federation Force. It doesn't help that they have a beloved name attached to them and had an installment universally hated by the community. If Nintendo ditched the name and elements, identifying them as just random experiments they probably would have been received better. I mean even if they flop it wouldn't change our perspective on the IP we would allow look forward to the next

Playing through Paper Jam at the moment, I'm getting quite bored with it. The story is just 'Peach was kidnapped again' plus a brief thing about the book which is purely to introduce the new gimmick of Paper Mario joining. There are no new characters to get to know everything is a Toad, the same Toad it might as well be as they rarely even change colour. Even the bosses are just Koopalings and the standard King Boo, Petey Piranha etc. I've seen it all before. It's well made, but ultimately rather dull.

If Colour Splash turns out this way too I won't be picking it up in a hurry. It is maybe too early to tell so I hold out hope. But what they showed - no new characters or locations, focus on new mechanic over story, saving swathes of identical Toads again - was not promising. And for a game all about colour it looked amazingly grey and de-saturated. Like he only lighting was the default one that comes with the scene. And it's not like they had little else to show, the Direct was packed so they must be happy with it so far, right?

I don't know what's going on at Nintendo. Intelligent Systems are, imho, one of the best games studios in the world, and Miyamoto is legendary. So what is happening? Do IS not want to make Paper Mario and the Mario & Luigi series any more? Is their heart not in it? Are the reports of Miyamoto imposing a focus on existing Mario-verse characters over new ones and pushing the focus off story in favour of the 'rescue Peach' trope true? I would hope they'd have the sense to let IS do what they do best, even Miyamoto gets it wrong sometimes (Wii Music, though he still claims to like it which is worrying in itself).

It will be a day one for me I liked sticker star, it would be awesome if they would add an online battle system allowing you to battle other players.

I think this game looks very charming and a lot of fun. I've not played the other Paper Mario games so I guess I don't come to it with the baggage some others do.

I judged my enjoyment of Sticker Star pretty accurately from the very first screenshots, and the Color Splash trailer shows a lot more. Things can change, but unless they change drastically, I'm very confident in my early judgement.

For myself and for many others, Paper Mario games have lost the privilege of a second chance. After the disappointment that was Sticker Star and the lack of interesting characters/settings/story from Paper Jam (a crossover between two series that strongly benefit from all these), it's obvious Color Splash is going the same direction.

I can't in all confidence give a fair judgement for the gameplay, but it's quite the stretch to say we don't know anything about the game. For fans who are interested in the characters and stories of Paper Mario, it's obvious Color Splash is going to be disappointing.

It's not too early to judge Color Splash. It's a low-effort sequel to the worst PM that caters to the casual drones that'll buy anything if it looks pretty. The trailer gave plenty of information.

Look up the trailer for TTYD. You'll see interesting environments, new species, partners, overworld gameplay, the battle system, and the promise of a fun adventure. Here? We saw toads, hammering things to paint them, SS combat, toads, Bowser baddie stealing paint, toads, and nothing creative or interesting. Color Splash deserves all the anger it gets.

The series would've been fine if it continued with the SPM style. That one retained most of what made the first 2 Paper Marios amazing. Instead, we're getting this nonsensical sequel.

As long as fanboys are foolishly defending this downgrade, PM will never be great again.

@Project_Dolphin That was different though, more people had the hope/idea that it could still be like the older games, and it was the first portable paper mario game. This game will most likely not sell as well with fans of the earlier games as Sticker Star did because now it seems that we all know what to expect, everyone expected Sticker Star to be great, but we all know how that went for most people.

If I were to wind up in court on serious criminal charges, I wouldn't like the people condemning this game to be part of the jury. Innocent until proven guilty and all that

Not too early at all. Read the Iwata Asks about Sticker Star... they intended to change it drastically. Comes across as extremely uncaring, lazy and very out of touch. I don;t care though, they have lost me I am no longer interested in the Paper Mario series, I do not believe they have any idea how to make a game in the RPG styles of the first two that established the franchise. And the thought of a full price retail game that reminds me even a little of Sticker Star is enough to make lose even more faith that Nintendo is anything more than a shell of its former versions.

I think they need need blood, and the old guard including Miyamoto need to step back ...a lot. Not long into the NX generation and we will know where the future of Nintendo lies ...It will be interesting to see how they fade into something.... unrecognizable from what we have known.

@CapricornDavid I think most people are upset that the game is full of generic toads and doesn't seem to be as creative with it's story or characters at all. I wouldn't mind sticker star's battle system as much if it actually had that creative spark and sense of wonder like the older games had. I don't care about them changing the gameplay, I loved super paper mario, but now they're just stripping the game of its soul, so it's incredibly shallow and tiring

@Dr_Corndog I can assure you - Sticker Star is as bad as it's made out to be. The total dependence on buying and finding stickers in order to attack anything is frustrating. There are few hints (and in some cases no hints) as to what stickers work on what bosses, leading to wasting valuable stickers and taking an hour just to rebuild your inventory. I wish it was better.

I think the game looks awesome and I can't wait for it to come out! I'm exciting every time a new Paper Mario game gets announced.

Man I'm glad half of you aren't in charge of anything at Nintendo. There is nothing wrong with Sticker Star. I am glad they tried something new. If sticking to the old formula was their thing then they wouldn't been known for the all the innovations that they have been known for like the Wii, the DS, 3DS and the gamepad.

I've never played a Paper Mario game (though I did just download the first one from the VC) but from what I've read lately from related articles and comments is that people loved the first one, adored the second one, we're mixed on the third but they loathed the recent one. Judging on what I understand about the first two is that they had turn based battles and RPG mechanics, great stories and a variety of characters and the last one used stickers as its battle mechanic, had little story and used a bunch of identical toads. I know I can't judge until I've played both but as a newcomer I'm hoping this colour splash game follows the first two and not sticker star which doesn't sound like an appealing game to me. I think in cases like this where fans are so vocal and angry about what they want it's probably a good idea for Nintendo to take just a little bit of notice. Regardless I'll still end up getting this because it looks amazing visually. PS does anybody know how/if the gamepad will be incorporated, I think it could be used in cool ways like cutting out shapes or folding paper with the stylus for puzzles and battles even. Just an idea.

OOPS the anti Sticker Star + Color Splash comment got modded. Thats hilarious

I think i would be ok with this game if they released Gamecube games on the Wii U/NX and TTYD was the first one.
Then i could pretend this game doesn't exist in the Paper Mario franchise.

I want to defend this game, but I can't I've waited for a Wii U Paper Mario, and the result is Sticker Star 2.
At this point Nintendo doesn't give a dang about Paper Mario. They not only called it an action-adventure game, but the fact they had to shove him in Mario & Luigi says something. They didn't even give the game any special treatment. They just casually announced it in the Direct. You know its sad when Mario & Sonic at the 2016 Rio Olympics gets more attention then Paper Mario.

Maybe if they made TTYD HD I would be more happy.

@Pokefanmum82 If some of us were in charge of Nintendo, we'd make sure many franchises don't get ignored completely or crapped on like Metroid, F-Zero, Golden Sun, Wario Land, Paper Mario, Mario Sports games, Mario Party, etc.

Why can't the Paper Mario games be like the Zelda franchise in terms of formula? The Zelda franchise has stuck to what works and has been doing fine. What if the next Zelda game had a map system instead of exploration? What if they scrapped Dungeons for touch screen puzzle battles? I'm sure Zelda fans would not like that, so why can't Paper Mario fans not like when they change the Genre completely?

@Syrek24 The ironic part is, you said "it was all about having fun"
Paper Mario TTYD was all about fun, it had great characters, hilarious moments, great gameplay, and put a smile on my face, the opposite of Sticker Star. No good characters, no charming or funny moments, gameplay was straight up stale. How about they try something new with a franchise that needs it like Golden Sun? The Thousand Year Door is a fantastic game, and it had more fun in it than any Nintendo game i've played to this day still.

GG on the insults btw lol, that's the only way people can try to get their point across now a days i guess.

Hm, I've never played a Paper Mario game (will correct that soon with the N64 original), but I remember that there always used to be hope within the fandom for a new entry every few years.
Nowadays, though, it feels like it's just something Nintendo makes to pad out their release schedules.

The big group of Paper Toads just screamed Paper Toad mini-games like Paper Jam. It looks like they're going to cram even more things that I don't like into Color Splash, than just the Sticker Star elements.

@Syrek24 Look...nobody is saying that change is a bad thing. It's okay to try new things. But that doesn't mean you have to burn the blueprints and start over. You can do new things and try new ideas while keeping the gameplay intact. And when something works, you probably don't want to get rid of it right away. There's the age-old saying of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"...that's kind of what Nintendo's doing with Paper Mario. They're trying to fix something that wasn't even broken, and in all honesty, it's sometimes better to simply take what you have and build upon it, and then change when things start to get stale...the original style has not gotten stale. It couldn't have gotten stale, because it's a specific style that hasn't been seen in 12 years. And I'd be a lot more forgiving if they weren't keeping something that actually DOESN'T work. I did not like Sticker Star. It got rid of pretty much everything I liked in the first three games: A good story, unique and interesting characters, interesting environments, the gameplay, just about everything. It could have made up for it by at least having a battle system that was actually fun...but it did not have that. The fact that stickers are literally your only form of attack is jut plain stupid (and doesn't make much sense when Mario can clearly jump on and hammer enemies outside of battle), in that if you didn't have any stickers, you'd be screwed. Also, because of this, battles end up doing more harm than good in that it drains away the amount of stickers you have, so it's better to just AVOID battles altogether. I don't want to avoid them, I want to actually WANT to fight my enemies (unless of course not wanting to fight them is kind of the point, like in games such as Undertale), and the fact that I have to avoid them (coupled with the fact that you can't even level up), kind of makes battles even pointless. In addition to this, there's bosses that require a specific item to actually beat (which is bull), and it's just too damn cryptic. I know that sounds like I'm whining and going "it's too hard!", but there are parts in the game where a guide is pretty much mandatory. The music is good, though. I'll give Sticker Star that. But the style doesn't help much when the actual substance isn't all that appealing. In the end, I guess it's kind of like having your favorite food and trying out this new fancy restaurant...it's nice to try new things, but it's also nice to go and dig into your favorite food every now and then.

@Fuz @Pokefanmum82 @Syrek24 Well said, all of you. Excuse me for saying so, but right now I'm laughing my b***s out of my pants at the ridiculousness of all the people on here suffering from a severe case of Nostradamus and/or Sherlock Holmes complex, thinking they have completely unearthed every little detail of this game based upon some beta footage.

They know NOTHING and it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to fully know what a game is going to be like based upon a teaser (NOT a full trailer) that actually only lasted a mere 30 seconds, if you removed the intro and outro from it.

And people thinking that a teaser is to let people judge a game are also so VERY wrong: a teaser is meant to spark interest, hence the name teaser, and to inform people that another game in the series is coming, nothing more, nothing less.

The amount of hate based upon that tiny snippet of gameplay is preposterous. And people that would have correctly informed themselves and stayed calm, would have already known that the mechanics in this game will NOT be completely the same as Sticker Star, since the so hated sticker collecting mechanic has been replaced by painting, which is one of the very little things that we actually DID learn from this teaser, and also because it was told by Nintendo themselves. I can't imagine we are going to have to collect paint or something similar.

And yeah, sure, it has no "deep" rpg mechanics so that is the one thing that is known that could turn people away from this game.

Besides that, we haven't seen any other characters yet, but that doesn't mean that they won't be there, so maybe some of these protesters should simply wait until a longer, more complete trailer is released before they start drowning in despair at yet another piece of "evidence" that Nintendo isn't listening to poor little old them...

Oh well, haters gonna... and such...

It's kind of unsettling to see Nintendo adopting the "gimmick"-approach, which it recently used for it's console devices, for long-running game series as well. The Direct video for this was basically just a "gimmick"-of-the-year - in this case color-splashing - introduction video ... I really liked the idea of seamlessly integrating a 2D and 3D Mario experience with a role-playing-elements, as for example in Thousand-Year Door. The design was simple, yet sophisticated ... this just feels tacked on, and not like a natural fit at all.

In conclusion: YES, it is DEFINITELY too soon to judge this game. No discussion possible whatsoever.

Let's all just calm down and wait for some more conclusive info and/or footage, and then you can all start screaming again if it is indeed as bad as all of you have now already decided that it is going to be.

Pffff.....

I was about to write a whole easy here, but I deleted it all because I knew someone would counter even the smallest hole in my argument.

All I'll leave is: It's more than the footage that worries me, the causal announcement, along with the previous entry in the series added to it at least makes me at least worried of what the final product would be. If Nintendo truly saw this coming and truely cared about how the game would sell, they would've kicked off with a lot more. Fan demands aside, it's obvious this isn't taking high priorities on Nintendo's mind.

And I hope I'm wrong, because I never wanted that to happen to a Paper Mario game.

Nintendo heard the complaints about Sticker Star. If they'd addressed the issues we had, they would have demonstrated that in the trailer. They wouldn't be blatant about it, because that would be admitting defeat, but they'd be in there for the fans to find. They'd show Mario being followed by a green Bob-omb with a bowtie or a yellow-shelled Koopa with glasses and pigtails. They'd show a battle ending with Star Points. They'd show a couple of Toads with different hats and outfits and spot colors. They'd be brief enough that you'd have to watch the GameXplain to see them, but they'd be there. But no. From the footage they showed, the best case scenario we're getting is that Color Splash succeeds at what Sticker Star was trying to do, and that's not what we want.

If they were planning on fixing the things I hated about Sticker Star, they would have shown it. They haven't shown partners and original characters and experience points and a story because they don't have them, because they know they don't need them — it's been so long since we had a real Paper Mario game that everyone's forgotten about them, and now there's a big enough fanbase of kids who were born after Thousand-Year Door came out that it's more profitable to just make Sticker Star and sell it to this completely different audience who doesn't know what they're missing — who have no context to know what "Paper Mario" means other than "Oh, it's that guy from New Super Mario Bros Wii, but made of paper!" and don't know it's supposed to be an RPG with a story — than it is to take the time to make a fully fleshed-out Paper Mario 3 and sell it to Millennials who probably don't even have the disposable income to buy a Wii U anymore after making their student loan payments for the month.

Paper Mario has mutated into something I have no interest in, and trying to deny that and hold onto hope that it will someday come back will just make me more disappointed (Inversely, letting go of that hope will make it all the more satisfying if it miraculously does come back someday when I was least expecting it).

It's hard for me to share my opinion on this game as I look at the title in two different perspectives. On one hand, I am severely disappointed to see Nintendo ignoring its fans and not give us a proper follow up to the N64 original and the Thousand Year Door. On the other hand, the game looks gorgeous and I can't say that I am not interested to see more of it. It's really hard to describe. I'm far from sold on the game and I don't support them changing the Paper Mario series from what it originally was... but the game does look like it could be fun. I guess I wish this game existed, but just wasn't a Paper Mario title. Regardless, I'm sad to see the franchise change to what it has become.

@Adamario I completely agree. The new game doesn't look bad at all, it just isn't what Paper Mario originally was. If they were going to bring the old gameplay back, they would have shown us in this trailer.

@wiggleronacid I feel the same, I do hope this game is good, but it doesn't look like what I dreamed the 'next Paper Mario' to be.
I'm far from sold too, if it turns out to be a budget 30-40 dollar title, I might try it... but 60 'just to give a game a chance' is too much.

I hope that at the very least, a future trailer will show something Sticker Star lacked that we want in this game.

@TheRealThanos You can't say we know nothing then go on to describe in great detail the things we do in fact know.

You're talking like nobody who's criticizing this game could possibly know what they're talking about, like the only reason I dislike the way this game is looking is because I covered my eyes and didn't pay attention to anything that happened. I know the battle mechanics are different from SS, I also know that they brought back the level select (which I don't like), that they brought back Toad missions (which I don't like), and that the battle system seems to be simple and a loose variation of the sticker battles (which I hate).

I can also make an educated guess that, based on the decisions made for both Color Splash and Paper Jam, as well as the narration on the trailer, that this game will share a lot of the qualities that made me hate Sticker Star. There's no reason why I shouldn't voice my concerns and complaints when the first trailer for Color Splash does absolutely nothing to show me why I should be interested in it (which is by your definition the reason this teaser exists in the first place). Paper Mario has only disappointed me for the last 9 years, am I supposed to just have faith that this game will finally fix it even though the trailer has absolutely nothing to show for it? Am I supposed to believe that they fixed most of the issues I had with Sticker Star (obviously not including the issues that are confirmed to still be in) and just conveniently left them out of the trailer? Why is it wrong to say this game looks bad, but it's totally okay to say the game looks good?

Honestly it's strange to me that you're condescendingly criticizing people for making assumptions when your post is so full of rash assumptions.

@Project_Dolphin Sticker Star did sell well certainly that can't be denied. You forget one minor thing though; initial alpha screenshots showed partners in Sticker Star, so we all had imagined that it was going to similar to the TTYD. Only as it approached release we realized footage lacked any partners, but because of the earlier photos it was easy to imagine they were early level images.

Had we known beforehand exactly what kind of Paper Mario game SS was going to be sales wouldn't have reached that height.

The opposite is true for Color Splash; we're cautious and reserved because SS let us down so badly. Coupled with the fact that this is a Wii U title that must mean that Nintendo is targeting Paper Mario's core audience.
I don't believe Nintendo is ignorant to fan demand for more unique characters and narrative heft, and if they chose to listen to SS sales over the audiences feedback then Nintendo is slowly shifting into the mindset of contemporary video game companies.

I subscribe to the theory that I don't always know what I want until I see it. But I know what I don't want; more SS.

@Pokefanmum82 The Wii and the Gamepad can hardly be considered "innovations" when the wider industry has failed to adopt them in any meaningful way. Hardly anyone except Nintendo develops with these peripherals in mind anymore.

The joystick and D-pad were innovative because they completely changed the way games are developed for and experienced (and have stayed around for the long haul). Other consoles' steps in pushing graphical fidelity and processing power are small innovations, but still innovations because they incrementally push the games industry forward and allow developers to make games they couldn't before.

The Wii Remote, meanwhile, was a temporary fad that may have achieved temporary widespread audience adoption, but failed to revolutionize the way the wider industry plays games. Do you see anyone developing games that use motion controls anymore? The list is extraordinarily small and almost never comes at the expense of regular joystick/button controls. Hell, even Nintendo hardly develops games using Wii Remotes. The Gamepad isn't remotely innovative and can't even be classified as a fad; not only has the industry not adopted it, but only the Nintendo hardcore (practically a niche audience at this point) have it in their homes at all.

Nintendo has not been nearly as "innovative" as people give them credit for, at least not in the last decade. Their hardware is simply different for the sake of being different, for no meaningful reason. No one, not even Shigeru Miyamoto, can develop a game that justifies why the Gamepad even exists in the first place.

That's what the Paper Mario series seems like to me too. Nintendo gutted Paper Mario of everything that made the series what it is (interesting and emotional story, humor, badges, progression system, combat system, partners) and instead threw new ideas at the wall just for the sake of making a "different" game. Then rather than simply making it a new IP, they slapped "Paper Mario" on the title, despite not having anything to do with the originals, so it would sell better. This is less "innovative" and more fixing something that wasn't broken to begin with.

The "more of a platformer than an RPG" point of the RPG/platformer hybrid spectrum in the Paper Mario franchise has been done, quite brilliantly, in Super Paper Mario. What Sticker Star did instead, was making the game about just Mario (having only one character in the party-based RPG genre is usually a mistake) and splitting the adventure in levels on a platformer-esque map. It... backfired, to say the least. Why Nintendo decided to make Sticker Star "the new series standard" in the face of all the criticism it got is just baffling.

That said... is it too early to judge Color Splash? Why, yes, yes it is. We didn't even get a proper trailer, as far as I can recall. Are the signs of this game following Sticker Star's missteps rather worrying? Again, they are. Nintendo - or, better yet, Intelligent Systems - should take a good look at the criticisms about Sticker Star and adjust the game enough to satisfy the fans (and, let's be honest here, just giving Paper Mario its RPG structure back would be enough to give us one hell of a game).

Of course, there's also something positive to say about the game: the art style. The white outline for the paper characters, first introduced in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam Bros., other than showing respect for said game by effectively acknowledging it as canon (if only visual-wise), looks far better in HD than it did on the 3DS screens. The Splatoon-esque color splashes also look great, and the same goes for everything else. I really hope the game makes good use of the color gimmick and properly explores the idea.

It's a shame there's not much else to add when it comes to praising the game - or rather, and don't forget this little detail, what little we know about it. To all fans, it's too early to judge the game itself as a whole. To NintendoLife, it's only fair game to criticize what we know so far about it - it's still feedback for Nintendo, after all. If what they've shown to the audience doesn't get people hyped, then there's still time to shake things up. Then again, considering Metroid Prime: Federation Force is heading towards release - no pun intended - at full force, without caring what fans had to say about it, I wouldn't be so hopeful. Time will tell; we can't.

@Project_Dolphin Never argued the fact that Nintendo doesn't still make great games from time to time. Even Super Mario 3D World, which is a highly derivative game, is still a solid game. I'm simply saying that the ratio of great games to average/mediocre games is worse now than it's arguably ever been. The fact that you can only name Super Mario Maker and Splatoon as Nintendo's marquee games last year is extraordinarily disappointing. Meanwhile, Happy Home Designer, Amiibo Festival, Mario Party 10, and Mario Tennis were absolute duds, while Paper Jam, Yoshi, and Kirby were all decidedly average.

Hopefully this is indicative of AAA development on the Wii U and 3DS slowing to a halt in favor of NX development, not a sign that Nintendo is losing touch with games development in general. Still, after seeing the way Paper Mario looks and last year's slew of 'meh' games, it's hard not to be a bit worried.

Let me just summarize the things that people are complaining about in the trailer:

Level select instead of open world (like Sticker Star), Some kind of card battle instead of classic PM battles (like Sticker Star), Possible lack of partners (like Sticker Star), Main NPCs shown seem to be generic toads (like in Sticker Star), Giant real-life items seem to be part of battles again (like Sticker Star)...

From my understanding, all of these things were received very poorly by fans. And beyond the good visuals and paint mechanic, this pretty much summarizes what we've seen in the trailer. If they really wanted to get people excited about the game, you'd think Nintendo would have been a little more careful to not focus on everything that people hated about the last PM game, you know? Pair this with the fact that this was just a casual one minute introduction placed arbitrarily in a Direct and it's hard to be hopeful. I agree that it is too early to judge, but I don't blame the skeptics at all for voicing their worries.

Thousand-Year Door was actually the most successful game in the franchise. Super Paper Mario by far sold the most copies, with Sticker Star in second, but they were both on consoles with much larger userbases.

Paper Mario 64 sold 1.37 million copies, with 32.93 million N64s out there; attach rate of 4.16%.
Thousand-Year Door sold 1.91 million copies, with 21.74 million Gamecubes sold; attach rate of 8.78%.
Super Paper Mario sold 4.23 million copies, with 101.63 million Wiis sold; attach rate back to 4.16%.
Sticker Star sold 2.24 million copies, with 57.94 million 3DSes sold; attach rate drops slightly to an all-time low of 3.87%.

There are currently 12,600,000 Wii Us. If Color Splash sells like Sticker Star, it would sell about 487,000 copies; if it sold like Thousand-Year Door, that would put it at a respectable 1.1 million copies, putting it just behind Tropical Freeze at 1.12 million.

I also belive that the whole "You can't judge it before it comes out." is only used to prevent criticism. It's one thing to make a final judgement. It's another to form an opinion basded off of information that has been released/predictions. As long as you keep an open mind when playing the game, there is nothing wrong with judging trailers and screenshots.

No thanks. Honestly between this, Federation Force and Amiibo Festival, that's three franchises Nintendo has royally disappointed me (and MANY other people) with in the span of a single generation.

Being that out of touch with your fans is almost an achievement.

So whats this.

First 3D land on the 3DS, then 3D World on the Wii U.

Then NSMB2 on the 3DS, and NSMBU.

Now Sitcker Star on the 3DS and Color Splash for the Wii U.

What's next? A federation Force game for the Wii U next year? :v

@TheRealThanos Well it's not our fault that Nintendo took everything that made Paper Mario great and threw it in the trash.And showed almost everything that people hated in sticker star.
@Syrek24 voicing our opinion=being a whiny brat. Good to know

@Project_Dolphin " Sticker Star sold well, and Nintendo (a business) uses sales (among other things) to make decisions about which video games to make" Super Paper Mario sold 3 million by what you said Nintendo a (Business) should'ave used Super's formula for this game cause it brought them more sales/money.

Like i said it before: For me, its down to gameplay.
I can live with an all SMB cast. I can also live with a bare bones story. I really enjoyed Sticker Stars overworld puzzles.

What i couldnt deal with was its combat system. Or rather its lack thereof. The battles were utterly pointless.
Basing your combat system solely around consumables raises several flags for me. In generic JRPGs, items usually fall unter the "too good to use" rule for me.
Sticker Stars sticker system came with all sorts of problems:

-Sticker Collection: This is a completionist issue, so YMMW.
Your inventory is limited, but once you find a new sticker, you need to carry it back to town to stick it onto the museum wall and add it to your collection.
It clutters up your inventory and mentally keeping track of what you already have and what you can waste is just annoying.

-Backtracking: Same as above, if you want to add stickers to your collection, especially the "real world" gadget ones, youre bound to traverse a level several times just to pick up a sticker again.
The same goes for regular stickers too. As soon as you run out of attacks or simply carry the wrong ones, youre aimlessly running around, looking for stickers. Often having to travel back to old levels because you know, it has several hammers / shoes.

-Battles are pointless: In general, RPGs make battles interesting, because they are a way to develop your character.
Even Super Paper Mario, the platformer spinoff had this mechanic, so killing enemys wasnt for nought.
Sticker Star however didnt even have that.
You wasted stickers to kill enemys. They awarded you with coins, what cyn you do with these coind ? Buy stickers...
So essentially, you reward for beating enemys is backtracking time.

If Color Splash is even remotely similar, ill pass.
Sticker Star wasnt bad per se, but it was an absolute bore fest that i wouldnt want to play again (that said, i couldnt even bring myself to finish Sticker Star, and i tried, trust me).
It felt like playing Tetris without score or a line counter. Utterly pointless.

I have nothing against a more adventure / platformer-esque Paper Mario, but this simply doenst mix well with half-assed RPG leftovers such as random battles.

I think its bigges issue is its legacy. Paper Mario and TYD are extremely well recieved RPGs with rather deep gameplay such as the badge system or even player guided character development through level up bonuses. Thats what made the series interesting to begin with, plus its colorful setting and cast.

This shift in tone and half-assed genre mix simply wasnt what peope wanted to play. Its not that it had to stay an RPG, as the Mario & Luigi series filled that gap with flying colors. It was simply that the game itself was boring without the stuff that made the first two great.
Sticker Star was the proof of concept of this, which backfired. Seeing this repeated was bound to backfire again.

@Moon Because that is the standard reaction all games seem to receive no matter what. If there is one thing you can count on "gamers" to deliver, it's rage.

The battle system and backtracking of collecting certain stickers over and over for the boss battles are what made me return SS to the store. I never return games unless they break my spirit.

@Project_Dolphin Kirby and Yoshi, outside of interesting art styles, didn't do much to differentiate themselves from prior entries. Kirby was just Canvas Curse with a clay art style and clunkier to play on the Gamepad than on a DS. Yoshi got decent reviews, but as far as I could tell, was just more Yoshi. Also consider the fact that those two games are indicative of Nintendo playing it extraordinarily and underwhelmingly safe this console generation as a whole. Even if there are great games on Wii U (and there are), most of the first party games are all either entries in pre-established formulas, or altogether remasters:

New Super Mario Bros. U
Pikmin 3
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze
Mario Party 10
Mario Tennis
Wii Sports Resort
Super Smash Bros. Wii U
The Legend of Zelda Wind Waker HD
The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess HD
Super Mario 3D World
Kirby and the Rainbow Curse
Yoshi's Woolly World
Star Fox Zero
Mario Kart 8

Like I said, some of these games are good and some are even great. Smash, for example, is the best version of Smash I've ever played. And there are some exceptions to the rule of course, like Splatoon and Mario Maker. But I'm sharing this list to show that even most of Nintendo's great games on Wii U have been largely derivative. Compare this to some highlights from the GameCube's lineup, which saw the likes of Super Mario Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, and Animal Crossing. All games that, if they weren't altogether new IPs, shook up their respective franchises in imaginative and new ways.

The lack of innovation and imagination within core franchises (with some exceptions), coupled with the influx of games that clearly have misread what the audience wanted (Color Splash, Amiibo Festival, Federation Force), and games that simply ended up being mediocre and even abysmal (Mario Tennis, Amiibo Festival), is what's causing my doubt about Nintendo's future in console development. It's not crazy or absurd to have low expectations of their future hardware AND software, especially after the last few years. That's really all I'm getting at.

@Project_Dolphin
"Attach rate can be useful information to have in certain cases, but gamers don't buy a video game because of its attach rate. Video games are what video game companies ultimately want to sell; consoles are just a means to play video games."

..um... I... what? No, people don't buy a game because of its attach rate... but the attach rate goes up because people buy it. The point is, Sticker Star only outsold TTYD because more people had 3DSes than had Gamecubes. If there's something about TTYD that made people want to buy it more, Nintendo should be looking to emulate that if they're looking purely at a business standpoint, because if they can get 8% of people to buy it instead of 3-4%, that's double the sales.

Not saying it would be bad but I am taking cautious approach to this one. Don't want a repeat of Sticker Star.

I hear many cries of giving games a chance - we heard the same with Codename STEAM, which held no interest for me. It's simple: we can't be expected to give every game a chance with the plethora of choices out there. That makes it very easy for perception to become reality.

I'll be skipping this one.

@luke88 It seems like we'll at least be able to reuse spent cards by filling them up with paint, so that aspect is better than I hoped.

The trailer was kind of underwhelming for me. I can live with and sort of understand the move to action adventure, although I would have preferred it if they kept more of the RPG elements. I loved how everything seems to be made out of paper and cardboard. I just hope there won't be an overabundance of generic-looking Toads in the final game.

@FlaygletheBagel
I don't see a lot of people on Nintendolife that would call Super Mario 3D World (among other new Mario titles) "paint by number" and utterly souless but I´m glad someone does. I would call many of the games you listed good but there's that certain lack of originality and charm the series used to have. 3D Super Mario titles used to be something I really looked forward to. After Galaxy 2 my hype levels haven't been on the same level for those titles.

@Vineleaf
True, especially if you have a job, you have less time for videogames. Sure you want to play something unique every now and then. I´ve already played trough Sticker Star and I don´t want to experience a similar title again.

And now for the main topic, it's too early to judge Paper Mario Color Splash.

And I would say there's plenty of things to judge already based on the trailer:

• Similar battle mechanics to Sticker Star, not a good sign.
• Similar map system to Sticker Star, level themes seem to be the old recycled ones, grassy plain, desert, etc.
• Toads, Toads, Toads, because creating original characters takes effort.

Sure the game can be still be good or decent, but I don´t expect it to reach TTYD like levels of quality. At this point I´m sure I'll just vote with my wallet when the game comes out.

There isn't much for me to say that hasn't been said... but I'll at least say that I'm in the camp that is a fan of the first two games, and is skeptical of this one. I also agree that the sudden random announcement and brevity of the trailer is concerning; when a handheld sequel to a Kirby game (which I am actually excited for) is the big final announcement instead of a console game in a series starring Mario, you know there's a problem there. The question is, if they have so little faith in it, why even expend the resources to make it? As we've seen with Amiibo Festival and to some extent most recent Sonic games, cranking out half-arsed sequels and spinoffs to fill release gaps does more harm to a brand than good. They'd better be preparing some incredible stuff on NX if they're going to risk the credibility of their IPs so frivolously, especially when they're planning to leverage those IP with other Ventures than games...

On a more positive note, some hope for original PM fans: there actually is a toad in the trailer who isn't red, and who's got at least a slightly unique outfit. Not quite TTYD-level stuff, but more than anything in SS, at least...

Is it just me, or has there been a pattern with Nintendo recently?
3 categories.
1. A game people have been asking for, and when its announced it disappoints a lot of fans.(Metroid, Amiibo Festival)
2. A game that is not to anticipated, but is massively underwhelming.(Ultra Smash, Chibi-Robo,)
3. A game that changes it's mechanics in a negative way.(Mario Party)

Color Splash falls into 2 out of 3 of these categories. People have been asking for Paper Mario 5 for quite a while, and it follows the Sticker Star format, which changed the gameplay in a negative way.

If I purchase this game, I will give it EVERY chance I have. However, at this point Nintendo has put Paper Mario on the back burner in favor of the Mario & Luigi series. However that can only help them for so long. Paper Jam has gotten mixed reception, and the M&L series has also gotten more simpler after Bowser's Inside Story. Nintendo doesn't realize that just because Paper Mario is not as important to them as Mario & Luigi, doesn't mean that they can just screw around with the series. Super Paper Mario caused a lot of debate on whether it was a good game or not, and Sticker Star caused a lot of negativity for a multitude of reasons.

Instead of listening to feedback, Intelligent Systems has gone with the formula that they think would work, just because Sticker Star was more successful than TTYD. The issue is that people only bought Sticker Star because A. The 3DS had a bigger install base, and B. Paper Mario went on a hiatus for quite a while. However, we haven't gone too long without Paper Mario, and the Wii U isn't picking up sales anytime soon. They had a chance to get Paper Mario fans back on board, but they kicked them off the train and threw them in the desert, only for them to wait another couple years for Paper Mario 6.

Only time will tell, but I don't think I can call myself a Paper Mario fan for a LONG time, and that makes me sad.

@mariovslink62
It'll be interesting to see how well this will sell. How many of those people who bought Sticker Star is going to buy this title. How many players will start with this title being their first Paper Mario? Will Nintendo gamers buy this no matter what?

Weird... I thought it looked neat. Then again, I've still never gotten around to playing a Paper Mario game, so I guess I don't have incredibly high expectations waiting to be smashed.

I'm not committed either way yet. I want to see more about the battle system.

I hope it's more like Thousand Year Door than Sticker Star.

Why do Nintendo feel the need to dumb down their games so often?

I loved Paper Mario, Thousand-Year Door and Super Paper Mario...I even enjoyed Sticker Star, but didn't find it as fantastic as the others. I honestly have hopes in this one being good and fun, as nintendo usually never lets me down on the fun-mechanics they put in games. I have hopes, and will definitely pick this one up!

The Wii U, a japanese home console, has no RPGs. And Nintendo think it's a good idea to create another non-RPG Paper Mario after stinkin' Sticker Stars. Once Nintendo was Gameplay > Graphics...

@andreoni79 Xenoblade Chronicles X, Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE. Sure it's not many but it's not none either.

Yeesh, so much worthless speculation over one trailer. I'll wait for it to actually release and see what the concensus is when based on literally playing the game.

I'm also tired of fan-trolls starting petitions calling for a games cancellation. stuck up little whinos.

@mjc0961 I'd say Galaxy 2 was more soulless (not that either are particularly soulless anyway). At least 3D Land and 3D World were always designed to be like the 2D games, Galaxy 2 suffered in the same way Sticker Star did, the story and exploration ripped out in favour of a NSMB approach.

I totally agree! It may not be like ttyd, but who knows what kind of awesome things there are beneath it. Its just to early to tell.

But I admit I loved Sticker star, so I have less to worry. As for ttyd: Such a big Paper mario will most likely never happen again, sad but true.

Can't TTYD just get the HD treatment? nin10doh pls

@Grumblevolcano
Nah, Galaxy 2 had a soul and it's level designs were much more memorable than those found in 3D Land and World. I like it as much as Galaxy 1.

@Project_Dolphin Reviews are not objective by any stretch of the imagination. They are by definition subjective. Even if there is a score at the bottom of a page, that score is not objective, it is based on somebody's opinion. Even if there is an average of all scores on all websites, that average is determined based on reviewers' subjective opinions. Let's not confuse reviews with objectivity, because they do not belong together in any way.

Reviews are not solely what I'm getting at anyways. Review scores are a fairly outdated and poor representation of the overall quality of a game, and in the games industry, always lean to the positive end of the spectrum when games may not necessarily deserve it (most sites don't score below a 7 unless the game is decidedly bad, so 7 can often be read as average-mediocre even if it's described as "good" on the website). My point is that Nintendo has pumped out a lot of games in the last year that are utterly devoid of imagination. And even the ones that have come out this generation with some semblance of heart and imagination are often playing it safe and devoid of much risk-taking. Is that my opinion? Sure, but I think that it's pretty noticeable based on the examples I've given. I think you'll find that it becomes observably true with enough time. I can't imagine anyone looking back on the Wii U in 10 years and saying "What an innovative and memorable generation of software."

@adam9431 it's called having an imagination.

@Project_Dolphin So TTYD would only count as a successful game if it had single-handedly turned around the Gamecube's sales figures?

Both the 3DS and Gamecube had more than one game; Paper Mario doesn't exist in a vacuum. Sticker Star released on a console that had triple the potential audience of TTYD, came out after New Super Mario Bros and the DS and the Wii had brought Nintendo back into the mainstream, was available digitally in case your store ran out of copies, it had the reputation of the previous Paper Mario games behind it, and with all those advantages going for it, it was only able to outsell TTYD by about the same rate at which the world population had grown in the intervening eight years (1.91 million - 2.24 million; 6.4 billion - 7 billion).

And again, if we're just going by absolute numbers of sales and not percentages (and ignoring any factors that could have affected things), Super Paper Mario is by far the best-selling Paper Mario.

when you can see coins instead of exp at the end of the battle, its not too early

@Project_Dolphin People will disagree with me of course. That's just the nature of having an opinion. But I also think, judging from this very comment section, there's an overwhelming number of people who are disenfranchised with Nintendo's direction just as I am. There's a reason the Wii U has only sold 12 million units, and I think that reason goes beyond just the hardware and the messaging.

Anyway, agree to disagree I suppose. My opinion is that Nintendo's hardware and software are a far cry from what they used to be. You obviously don't have to agree with me, and it's pretty clear I'm not going to sway you in any direction, but I think there's a pretty significant number of people who do agree.

Everything I wanted to say has already been said by people much more erudite than I. And I'm not gonna get into the old Nintendo vs new Nintendo argument. But you guys really do need a proof reader. It's elicit, not illicit. "...game would illicit this response". Spell checkers can't catch this stuff.

@CB85 An incredibly apt question. I never played TTYD (I know), but Paper Mario 64 was an amazing game and still holds that special place to this day. Paper Mario has just been getting worse and worse ever since. It should never have been a franchise for Nintendo to experiment with, because it was already so great at what it did and it had enough depth to keep it going.

It looks absolutely stunning with the paper n cardboard details and I think it is abit early too judge on a 2min trailer need too more about this game but I would have preferred a new Mario RPG or Paper Mario like 1000's year door or even a remake/remaster of them.

@Project_Dolphin To deem reviews (professional or otherwise) as the be-all end-all determination of the audience's collective opinion is fairly shortsighted. Message boards and opinion pieces are still valid contributions to that. And so are sales, because they give an objective, factual representation of how many people will shell out for a product a company makes. If Nintendo makes a product and it sells poorly, then it's obviously because the audience does not want what they're selling.

The Wii U is the worst-selling mainline home console in Nintendo's storied history. If people really were clamoring to play Nintendo's Wii U games, don't you think more people would own Wii Us? Instead what I'm seeing is a pretty serious growth in customers who are disenfranchised with what present-day Nintendo is putting out. Sales may not say much about a game's quality, but they sure do say something about whether a product looks appealing enough to the market to warrant a purchase.

@Project_Dolphin

You're right in that this debate has gotten way off track. My original point to begin with is that (based on a string of dud games with little content, a string of games that are either misreads or otherwise totally neglectful of what the audience wants, and a series of games that do little to challenge expectations) Nintendo has given us ample reason to question the idea that they're the same quality developer/publisher they used to be. Not sure how anyone can question that unless they disagree with the premises.

While it's true that it's too early to judge, the Paper Mario series has been declining lately. But then again, I'll probably buy this Day One. Only time will tell if this is a mind-blowing reboot to a once great spin-off series or another disaster like Sticker Star.

@Project_Dolphin

"Other gamers in general" meaning who? Because based on the declining sales of Nintendo consoles (with the exception of the Wii, which was a fluke that captured a fickle casual audience), and based on the quantity of purchases gamers are making from Nintendo's competitors by comparison, it's pretty clear "other gamers in general" are not as in love with Nintendo games as they used to be.

But it's all good man, If you don't think any of the premises of my claim are true, there's no way I'm going to convince you. We'll see how this generation is remembered and we'll see who turns out to be right!

FWIW, I agree with Flaygle. Lots of Nintendo franchises have been declining in quality recently...

@Project_Dolphin

The problem is that it's not a fallacious argument. You failed to explain how sales trends don't reflect industry attitudes. Because they do. Not totally and completely on their own, but they sure help. You said,

"Sales only show the willingness of gamers to buy Nintendo video games..."

Here you openly state that sales show the willingness of gamers to buy Nintendo games. And I agree with you. So how are dwindling sales irrelevant to the attitude of the market? If an increasing number of gamers are refusing to buy Nintendo games, it clearly shows that the general gaming audience is losing interest in Nintendo games. It clearly shows Nintendo's games have less resonance and relevance with the modern hardcore gaming market than in prior generations.

The widespread gaming audience is flocking to other consoles because their games and offerings are more appealing to them than Nintendo's. Not sure how you're failing to see the relevance there. Console sales are a pretty good indication of where your "other gamers in general" are predominantly choosing to play. And it's increasingly not on a Nintendo ecosystem.

@Dr_Corndog Good luck with Sticker Star (that was a 3DS game) - it was boring and not satisfying.

@Project_Dolphin That's a straw man argument if I've ever seen one. Sales are obviously not 100% directly linked to the quality of something. I'm saying sales can be extraordinarily reflective of industry attitudes. Which they certainly can be, and often times are. You can use sales of games and hardware to illustrate industry trends and what audiences find value in. Clearly fewer and fewer people are finding value in Nintendo hardware based on the sales data.

Does that in and of itself mean Nintendo's game quality is dropping? No. But I can look at tons of other tangible examples (including reviews) to express my concerns about the direction of the company. Those concerns are based on the three things I've literally been listing this whole time: fewer innovative titles, misreading/ambivalence to their fans when it comes to the development of titles, and several poorly reviewed duds of games that have come out in the last year. Those are the three things I'm basing this entire argument on, and I feel there is plenty of evidence that suggests those issues are, in fact, real. If we're going to keep arguing about how one determines the "goodness" of games, we've moved to a totally different argument entirely.

@Jacadamia Now the points about the Toads and the story are arguments I can understand (The one who decided that Bowser was not allowed to talk in SS needs to get a serious scolding). Although, yet again, I don't feel we have seen nearly enough to make an informed opinion about them.

I bet this will be one of those games that is actually quite fun to play but does not sell especially well. By the time it comes out most Nintendo fans will have moved on to being hyped about the NX instead.

Of course, we could also be looking at a repeat of Super Paper Mario where it is listed for the current gen machine right up to (and past) its announced release date and then suddenly becomes a title for the next gen machine instead.

Nice try, Paper Mario for Wii U, but the ultimate fan backlash award still belongs to Metroid Prime: Fed Force.

@Sticker lol

The masses have spoken! Balls in your court, big N!

The masses have spoken! Balls in your court, big N!

The masses have spoken! Balls in your court, big N!

Well about 25-30 people have spoken on a specialist website, but yeah ok the masses... lol.

...Am I the only one excited about this game?

I want a Paper Mario game that explains what sort of apocalypse wiped out every non-toad creature that wasn't working for Bowser. PM used to have villages of them, and a lot more variety in the standard minion models and new creatures, both in and out of combat. PM was it's own universe with it's own rules. The ever repeating sights and cast is fine for classic marios because they only have one story and the high action challenge is it's lifeblood. PM did not need to wear the classic series' conventions like a ghastly skin.

I'm holding out hope that the new land will inject some life, but the return of Mushroom Kingdom for Mushrooms populace is not doing it any favors.

@Ryu_Niiyama Day one purchase for me too!

For me, I can't remember the last time a Nintendo game turned out to be significantly different, for better or worse, than the opinion I formed during it's initial reveal. Heck, in the case of Star Fox Zero, all it took was the announcement, a year before any real footage and it gave me the impression it was going to be a retread of Star Fox 64. Almost 2 years later and now that's pretty clearly the case.

Paper Splash looks like it plays just like Sticker Star, so I think it's pretty fair for people to not get excited for the new game if they felt Sticker Star was a disappointment. Sticker Star's biggest problems were deep within the game design itself. Not really the sort of issues you sort out with a sequel.

@Project_Dolphin Well I'm glad that at the very least, you have given feedback about what I was initially arguing in the first place.

You are correct, fan reactions to games do not determine whether the games in question will be mediocre or not. There is no guarantee Color Splash is going to be mediocre, or that it's going to be good. Same with Federation Force. It could pleasantly surprise, or it can thoroughly disappoint. However, the fact that PMCS utilizes the mechanics of the worst game in the series gives reason to doubt its quality compared to other entries in the series. It's not totally unreasonable to have doubts about any game Nintendo has on the horizon based on the gameplay footage they show. Is it possible Color Splash could genuinely impress and prove me wrong? Of course. But the last couple times there was game footage that looked like it was bad, it turned out to actually be bad (Mario Tennis, Amiibo Festival).

It's all filler, because it's increasingly obvious that Nintendo has moved all of their AAA dev teams to the NX, leaving only B and C teams developing on the Wii U. It's why we've seen nothing from Zelda since its delay, and it's why we've seen nothing in the way of Retro, the mainline Mario studio, etc. in years. We're stuck in the space in between.

So I suppose Nintendo's drop in consistency when it comes to game quality lately (and you can't argue they haven't at least been inconsistent, with games as good as Mario Maker and as average as Paper Jam and as abysmal as Mario Tennis) is because at this point they're practically churning out side projects in anticipation for the NX. At best it buys them some time while their best studios can do their thing; at worst it provides the Wii U with some pitiful swan songs.

@SushiGummy If you had not misread where I was going with my comment, then you would have seen that the basis of it was that there is a clip of a little over 30 seconds that shows very little, other than that it is indeed clear that there are only toads, it has replaced stickers with paint, and there is a severe lack of the so coveted rpg mechanics.

That in and of itself still doesn't tell us an awful lot, because it was only a short clip, so there's no reason to fully assume and take for a fact that there aren't going to be any other characters in the game since it isn't finished yet.

Also, because the stickers are obviously gone, the mechanics ARE going to be different. How different nobody knows as of yet, because (you guessed it) the game isn't finished yet.

And show me where I made assumptions, because I haven't made any. I've based everything I said upon what we actually DO know and upon simple logic and deductive reasoning. (look it up, you might just find it interesting) Most of the people assuming things are actually the ones that are pre-condemning this game.

These fans of the older Paper Mario game are simply hating on this game because it misses the rpg mechanics and based upon this teaser, it seems to have no variation in characters, but only the first thing can be confirmed with a reasonable amount of certainty. Other than that we LITERALLY know nothing.

That has nothing to do with assumptions or my definitions, like with the teaser, which is not MY definition, that actually IS what a teaser is for: to tease, spark interest and (like I also already said) to let you know that another game in the series is coming.

A teaser is NOT specifically meant to show you all the characters and worlds that the game has (although some teasers do show a bit more than this one did) and it is not meant to explain ALL the gameplay mechanics to you.

So, the fact that people think they can extrapolate so much concrete info from that bit of video and then pre-emptively judge it as that it is going to be worthless, really is a fair amount of time too soon, which is EXACTLY what this article here proposes and is correct in stating.

We can argue till the cows come home, but that doesn't change these facts. That people are suspecting things to turn out a certain way, or that they simply don't like the whole Sticker Star series and anything that looks like it, that is perfectly fine, because that's feelings and opinions and everybody has a right to their own share of those, so that was never the issue for me.

People thinking they know all based upon a tiny fragment of video and already passing final judgment long before this game is ever released is...

@AlexSora89 As far as I'm concerned, you score points again, because even in your criticism at least you also admit the facts, among which is how little we know about this game as of yet. Which is a whole lot better than all the hate and "woe is me" comments.

Cheers.

@TwilightOniAngel There's nothing wrong with having an opinion or not liking Sticker Star, and because of that, having doubts about this game because it seems to share some of the same features & mechanics, but simply compare what we factually know (not what people think is going to happen) with what we don't know yet and you will find that the latter is a longer list, so we simply cannot pass final judgment yet, and that was basically all I was saying, so I was agreeing with the article, nothing more, nothing less.

Luckily some more people have come to that same conclusion since then...

Can we not delve into the Wind Waker initial reaction argument? That was due to the tone and visuals of the game (silly and cartoonish), not the gameplay. People can make a reasonable guess as to what Color Splash will be from what was presented and they don't think it's what they're looking for. We won't be completely sure, of course, until the game hits shelves, but so far doesn't seem to indicate that it's straying too far from what Sticker Star established. There's some hope, but it's not doing anything to indicate otherwise either.

They put the trailer/footage out there for us to judge. That's the whole point is they want us to look at it and judge it. Ideally as "looks amazing! I can't wait! Where do I pre-order?" but even the negative judgments should be taken on board. They're just as valuable for producing any product intended to sell well. It wouldn't be the first time a dev has made a u-turn after a largely negative response and produced a great game as a result (a first for Nintendo maybe).

Just because people aren't judging it positively everyone comes to it's defence? Telling us we're wrong? When they showed that bit of Zelda U footage and everyone was super stoked we didn't get articles telling us "too early guys, it might be awful, we can't judge yet". We're apprehensive on this, we're unsure, we're leaning towards the negative because Nintendo has pushed us that way with this series and this is not reassuring.

Look, we want to be proven wrong. I want more than anything in the world of video games to be proven wrong on this! I really do! But from what I've seen in the footage, what I've played in previous later entries for PM and M&L, what I've read in developer interviews from said games, I am not filled with confidence and that's that. And I want Nintendo to know that. I want them to know because if they don't know they're not going to do anything to convince me are they? It might be they need to show a little more, to better explain things (I'm sold on Federation Force now - though it's still barely Metroid), it might be I'm in the majority in which case it's in their interest to know so they can adjust and get better sales. It's not hate for hate's sake, it's not entitlement but it is my money they're after and if they want that they have to give me something I want in return. If I'm in the minority so be it go ahead, but if we all stay quite none of us will ever know and ultimately everyone dips out.

I am of the camp that actually enjoyed Sticker Star quite a bit excluding the poorly given hints if any at all when it came to the boss battles so if that isn't an issue in this game then I will probably end up enjoying this one just as much if not a little more since it is on a console. I won't buy it at launch simply because Paper Mario games usually aren't very high up on the list of games that I am eager to play, but I will get around to it eventually.

@Ogbert "They put the trailer/footage out there for us to judge."

No offense, but where in the hell does it say that or when has Nintendo asked that of you? That's mostly what part of the crowd is assuming, because judging things and other people is part of our nature, but it isn't a given that a tiny bit of info needs to be put on trial like it already has been now. At the most, it should be assessed and weighed for what it is, a little bit of information that hints at some things, but doesn't explain everything.

They simply wanted to SHOW what's coming up and what they're working on. No more, no less. There's a reason that game sites mostly review ("judge") and give grades to finished games instead of to the first ever trailer they get to see. That this is not the Paper Mario that everybody wanted that's abundantly clear by now, even though I still say that we don't know enough YET.

I understand that what WAS shown doesn't instill a lot of confidence in a number of you, but maybe we should give it the benefit of the doubt until more info or footage is released, and in the end it will probably still not be to the liking of some of you, but maybe they are trying to improve upon the previous game, who knows? I don't either, so it's pretty safe to say that I'm not alone in that respect, so I'll reserve my judgment until I've seen a longer trailer, a Let's play or have tried a demo myself, and maybe more people should at least give this game that chance.

There will be more than enough time for negativity later...

@TheRealThanos
Well, there's no denying that all criticism about the game so far is based on less than a minute of footage, instead of being criticism about the footage itself. This foolish slippery slope most famously reached its nadir when Sonic The Hedgehog 4 was first revealed, with Sonic fans already declaring the game the worst thing to happen to the franchise based on - no joke - six seconds of footage. So yeah, of course a brief sneak peek could not possibily equal the finished product; the fact said sneak peek is nowhere near what Paper Mario once stood for is another question entirely (and one that, without any sort of entitlement, can't be ignored, for better or for worse).
Cheers to you, Mad Titan.

@Ryu_Niiyama
I feel definitely inclined to answer your question with a blunt affirmation for feces and laughter, but that would undermine my intention to show criticism without behaving like most vocal complainers.
Then again I do understand your reply would be of a rather different nature, albeit following the same archaic format I longed to replicate.

@Project_Dolphin I never said there's no rationale for Nintendo to make Sticker Star 2. I've recognized all along that it makes financial sense to crap out another soulless game like Sticker Star if it can get comparable sales figures to a more content-rich Paper Mario game that has more effort and time put into it. I think I'm allowed to be mad about the fact that capitalism has killed one of the greatest RPG series of all time.

But I really have to dispute your apparent notion that Sticker Star is the only financially viable way forward. You can keep dismissing it by saying "attach rate" but I just don't see how you can say that it doesn't matter that Sticker Star was selling to 60 million 3DS owners vs. TTYD selling to 20 million GCN owners and TTYD still sold almost as many copies. I don't know how else to word it. Sticker Star didn't sell the highest absolute number of copies — it's a distant second there — nor the highest number of copies relative to the number of potential customers — it's in last place on that metric. If every previous Paper Mario had barely broken a million and then all of a sudden Sticker Star was a runaway success with five or ten million sold, you'd have a point, but Sticker Star's sales were well within the range of what was already a reasonable amount of sales for a Paper Mario game. There's no reason to believe that the drastic cuts to the Paper Mario formula led to a massive increase in sales. Rather, it seems that it retained much of the audience of previous Paper Mario games while also bringing in a bit of new blood.

I'm not saying "Sticker Star sold horribly; it makes no sense to make another one," I'm saying that it sounds like you're saying "Sticker Star sold way better than any other Paper Mario game; it makes no sense to make a Paper Mario game like the first three anymore" and that just doesn't make sense.

Reputation matters to sales. I know that I for one bought Sticker Star because I thought it was going to be more like TTYD or at least SPM. I went in holding onto an expectation that it would continue in the tradition of the series before, and that's why I bought it. I thought it might be worse than SPM but I never once imagined it could be as complete a departure as it was; I was sure that whatever faults it may have continued or intensified from SPM or whatever new faults it may have introduced, it would still be a Paper Mario game. It wasn't. Sales figures can't reflect the fact that I've regretted downloading that game every time it's crossed my mind over the past four years. But what can be reflected in sales figures is that if Nintendo makes another game that is clearly just Sticker Star HD, I will not buy it. And again, if the sales numbers were dramatically different — if the first three Paper Mario games had sold about a million each and then Sticker Star sold ten million — then it would be safe to assume that Sticker Star tapped into a new audience and it would be best to just keep going down that route, and not worry about what old-school Paper Mario fans like me think. But since it only just barely outsold TTYD and didn't even come close to outselling SPM, that probably means that most of the people who bought Sticker Star had bought a Paper Mario game in the past — meaning that Nintendo really should be careful about disregarding the things people liked about the previous games.

Please bring back partners...

@Project_Dolphin A lot of people bought all the Paper Mario games. If all you're saying is "If it takes less effort to make a game like Sticker Star than to make a game like TTYD, then it makes financial sense to make a game like Sticker Star and get comparable sales with lower costs", then that's what I've been saying/lamenting all along. (Though, again, I think Nintendo really ought to be looking into whether a significant portion of Sticker Star's sales came from people expecting a game like the first three, who will now know better than to expect that.) (Also, considering how much time they spent on Sticker Star before deciding to remove all the characters and plot they had come up with, I don't know that it even did take less time or money than it would have taken to make a real Paper Mario)

But if you're saying that and also not saying "It would make no sense to make a Paper Mario game like the first three anymore" then I have no idea what you're saying or what we're even arguing about. You emphatically denied that your argument was "Sticker Star sold way better than any other Paper Mario game; it makes no sense to make a Paper Mario game like the first three anymore...", but then all you talked about after that was how well Sticker Star sold?

Again, I get that people bought Sticker Star, though far fewer than bought Super Paper Mario. I still don't get how you think the number of people who own a console is completely irrelevant to how many copies a game sells — especially when you deny that in the same sentence where you include that as a factor! "Gamers who could buy Sticker Star and who wanted to buy Sticker Star bought Sticker Star; that was the cause of Sticker Star sales, not the install base." — 'Gamers who could buy Sticker Star' is the install base! Sticker Star had three times as many potential customers as TTYD. That matters.

"The other fact is that from a financial perspective, software sales provide an incentive for Nintendo to make more video games based on the video game formulas that provide those software sales; whether they are actually good Nintendo video games or not. So, from a financial perspective, what some gamers feel about Sticker Star is irrelevant if millions of copies of Sticker Star are sold."

• Every Paper Mario game sold well over a million copies. Super Paper Mario sold four million. You make it sound like the series had always just been struggling along with 100,000 or so copies sold and then suddenly Sticker Star was a runaway success and now Nintendo's like "Ah, finally we've found a profitable model for this!", when the reality is that it sold almost exactly as many copies as you'd expect a Paper Mario to sell — if we assume that TTYD was an outlier because the Gamecube's smaller audience had a higher concentration of loyal Nintendo fans*, history shows that about 4% of console owners will buy a Paper Mario game on that console.

*-This factor may also apply to the Wii U, but then you have to consider that Color Splash is clearly not the kind of Paper Mario game that those "loyal Nintendo fans" have been asking for, and many of us are not going to be fooled twice.

@Project_Dolphin Okay yeah, I see what you're getting at now.

I do think there's still some hope for now. Sticker Star was the first bad Paper Mario, and Color Splash looks like it could end up being the first lazy one (lots of love put into the graphics at least, but the actual gameplay so far looks functionally identical to Sticker Star; no indication of the massive expansion of 64->TTYD or the complete reimagining of TTYD->SPM, just replacing the sticker gimmick with an equal-sized gimmick). If Color Splash bombs, the most likely scenario is Nintendo just says "well I guess no one likes Paper Mario anymore" but I think there's still a chance that they'll listen (and then say "oh, well if they want that kind of Paper Mario, let's not bother").

@mjc0961 Ha ha! I wish I could see the silly grin you were wearing while writing all that.

@TheRealThanos I like you.

@TheGoddesseshero Well, I suppose I'll take that as a compliment, then.

@TheRealThanos Well it is. Because you are one of the few people who understands that the game can't be judged yet. And that's what I like about you.

@TheGoddesseshero Just pulling your leg. Thanks for the compliment. Cheers

Good news: the petition to cancel the game stagnated.