Voice acting in video games is perhaps taken for granted and overlooked, more-so than in a movie or theatre production. Multi-voiced talents such as Troy Baker may adopt a variety of sounds and approaches depending on the character, and Charles Martinet adopts an unnatural voice for Nintendo's own Mario, Wario and more. You see video game characters on screen, not the actors themselves.
Yet many of the voices in our games are contemplating strike action over their pay and conditions. The Screen Actors Guild in the US is planning to poll its relevant members on a potential strike, with over 75% of the vote needed to stop related voice work while the issues are negotiated. Of particular note are demands for improved working practices and pay for "voice stress" roles - that require a lot of shouting, for example - and a clearer distinction between voice and actors and motion capture actors. There's also a request for pay incentives for games that sell over two million copies.
Wil Wheaton, who's done plenty of voice acting in games and recently starred as President Abraham Lincoln in Code Name S.T.E.A.M., clarified the performance-related issues in a blog post.
I fully realise that for anyone who doesn't work as a voice actor it sounds insane to care about vocally stressful sessions.
If you've done this as I asked [read a book aloud for seven hours], it's now six or seven hours after you started. Don't talk at all for the rest of the day and don't make any plans to go audition for any other voice work for the rest of the week, because your voice is wrecked.
...Asking us to go into something with absolutely zero knowledge about the project, or what we'll be expected to do if we are cast, is completely unreasonable.
Maybe someone has a moral objection to the content of a game, and they'd like to know what it is before they commit to it.
It's not surprising that voice actors are looking to improve their work conditions and contracts, as their roles in games are becoming more visible and prominent. As games become increasingly cinematic decisions such as casting Kiefer Sutherland in MGSV, or recognised names such as Troy Baker or Nolan North working on a project, can generate headlines of their own.
What do you think of this issue - are you all for improved conditions and pay for voice actors, or should they just 'get on with the job'? Sound off in the comments.
[source bbc.co.uk]
Comments 110
Shut up Wesley!
As for the actual question, it's a bit of a hard sell when rich people complain about working conditions. Maybe they should get some of the non-famous people who just make a regular wage to speak about it. They frankly shouldn't be hiring famous actors for this stuff anyway. I'm sure there are plenty of regular people with great voices who could fill the roles.
Anything that can cause damage to a person's body, be it vocal chords, physical, hearing, etc. should be taken seriously, and the pay they receive should reflect that. Likewise, if a game sells millions of copies, the cast of the game should also see some of that money. I remember an article once about how much Tom Cruise gets paid per movie, and it was an insane amount, but when you look at how much his movies gross, you can understand the wage he gets. In video games, I can imagine the pay isn't nearly as good for what is essentially the same thing as acting in a movie.
Besides, if the world insists on paying footballers as much as they do, it's not unreasonable for other workers in other areas to expect more.
EDIT: You know the funniest thing about this? If voice actors do go on strike, the only company that would be largely unaffected is Nintendo, as they rarely use voice acting for anything other than the odd noise from their characters.
They deserve as much money as the role applies
What do they get now? like what does the dude who does Mario's voice get compared to the guy who did Joel's voice the TLoU?
I do think if a games makes it to 2 million in sales then there is a reason for that and it could be for the stellar voice acting and those voice actors should be paid their 'bonus' or whatever they are looking for.
Remember the writers strike, back in 2008/9? God tv and movies SUCKED for a long time then! That's why that show Heroes completely lost its way at the time of season 2 and never came back from that.
I don't want that happening next year with games. Pay the guys.
As much as i understand the situation these people are in, there are a lot of jobs out there that ruin you. There are even plenty of jobs where you talk constantly throughout the day.
I worked a job where i had to carry 80kg weights for about 9-10 hours a day. It ruined my back and even damaged a spinal disc.
So yes, i do think these people deserve a proper payment for their job and no, its not because its such hard labour. There are way harder jobs out there that a payed much much worse.
And in regards to "wrecking" your voice: The only person i would take that at face value would be Sean Schemmel and Christopher Sabat.
And for the article: The example of Sutherland in MGSV isnt the best example, since Snake is pretty much a silent protagonist in this one
His overall line could very well have been recorded in one single session.
@readyletsgo
I seriously doubt any games have ever sold more because of voice acting. Look at Final Fantasy 10. 8 million copies sold. Hideously bad voice acting. People on the whole don't care that much as long as everything else is good!
I don't see why it is unreasonable to ask for better pay and conditions, considering how much money Videogames generate. I think Troy Baker deserves a premium wage, he was really a major part of LoU' immersion.
All in all, I think videogame publishers take too much of the cash for themselves. It's pure greed. I can't say that I support the decision to cast Kiefer Sutherland in Metal Gear. His voice doesn't suit Boss' character in my opinion, and I'd have preferred it if the job went to a talented up and coming voice actor who aspired tobe involved in Videogames. Mr Sutherland gets enough work already.
@Crimson_Ridley I can't help but think that Tom Cruise's movies do gross as much as they do simply because he is in them. I'm not sure to what extent people buy a game because it has a specific voice actor in, or whether that voice actor being in the game results in it selling more.
Either way, I'm not a voice actor and they know their industry. If they think they're right to demand more then so be it.
@Einherjar not sure what your argument is- are you saying because you chose to do a job that hurt your back, that they should be stupid as well and not complain? Are you a voice actor? Have you been able to accurately gauge how difficult their job is through your own experience in the profession?
@MegaWatts
Oh c'mon, that's so naive. Do you know how many industries deliberately pull this stuff just to try and squeeze as much money out as they can, completely irrespective of working conditions?
You can't just accept this stuff at face value. Of course sometime it's genuine. But sometimes it's entirely manufactured because they think they can get away with it.
@Dezzy I'm gonna try Beyond: Two Souls because of Ellen Page!
I'm sure that voice actors would have to sign some sort of agreement before they get any information about a game. Last thing devs want is some voice actor talking about a game if they didn't accept a job.
Thing is, these people should have really done a better job of negotiating their contracts before things got this fare.
Also, didn't Nintendo get their own staff to voice games.
@Dezzy How is it naive? Tom Cruise is one of the highest-paid actors in Hollywood. He's renowned and his name alone has enough weight to advertise movies. He earns so much because he provides so much more beyond his acting, and he can demand a high-asking price as a result.
The same can't be said for someone like Jennifer Hale. She's incredibly talented (and that should in no way be understated) and has lent her voice to a number of high-profile games, but to suggest she gives a game a boost in a way that someone like Tom Cruise does is ridiculous.
I don't disagree that voice actors shouldn't be squeezed out of money and not be given suitable working conditions for their specific area — you'll note that I never even said that in my last post. They should be compensated fairly, and, as I've already said, they know their industry, so they should decide. I just don't think drawing comparisons with someone like Tom Cruise as if they are similar situations is a sensible way to look at it.
@Crimson_Ridley
Why should VA's get royalties if a game sells a lot for having worked a few weeks. When the developers that have worked for years with 10+ hour shifts each day gets nothing but a normal salary?
Yes, good VA work is important to a game. But it is still only a small part of it if you count all the other work that has been put into it. And frankly it's the developers that are in the most need for better working conditions... They are treated like crap at most big companies..
@Dezzy yeah I understand that. Most games have terrible voice acting tbh. But what Will is saying is video games are getting more cinematic, so voice acting will be up there with movies. I guess they are just covering themselves for the inevitable future of big budget video games with very good voice actors.
Sounds reasonable.
I can understand wanting to know ahead of time if they're going to require a lot of screaming or shouting, but I think it's silly that he said "maybe someone has a moral objection to the content of a game, and they'd like to know what it is before they commit to it." If you're only a voice actor, you should be able to take any part. It's not like they have to do anything on camera. Unless it's something extreme.
"Maybe someone has a moral objection to the content of a game, and they'd like to know what it is before they commit to it."
Oh dear, you might have to do something you don't like in order to get paid. What an injustice, voice acting must be the only industry that this happens in.
I'd do their job in a heart beat and risk damaging my vocal cords rather than risk damaging my back. Their reasoning is flimsy
@MegaWatts
Sorry I was replying to the comment before that (can you guys please consider getting Disqus for your comments, it's hugely superior). I meant it's naive to just say that the people who know the industry are the best people to decide. They're also the best people to deliberately lie about it. If you've never seen that sort of thing happen, I can understand the desire to assume honesty.
But I have seen it happen before and I've seen people successfully just game the system through being well-organised and just getting together behind closed doors and agreeing to all repeat the same story about being overworked (even though non believed it)
I happily put myself forward for free voice acting!
It's a tough situation, some games live on their voice work Troy Baker as Pagan Min was amazing, Mark hamil is the Joker to at least two generations.
But on the other hand there's no way they should get more money than the deva who work a billion hours making the game
.
@readyletsgo fun fact heroes lost its way because the amazing character written Brian Fuller left to work on his own project: pushing daisies and when that cancled he returned which explains the up swing near the end of heroes
@abe_hikura ah I loved pushing daisies! Watched it in a friend's house hungover to hell last year. Good times.
I see reviews for new heroes coming up today, not getting the best reviews but I'll give it a shot
Without any figures to judge this on its impossible to fairly assume either side........
They could get a fortune already for all we know and we can't compare to say, a cartoon or animated role, in terms of lines to speak or difficulty of voice to perform.
My personal instinct is however to say bwahahahaha......what a bunch of whining children, go work a real job involving hard word where you go home with cuts, bruises and blisters EVERY DAY. 5-7 DAYS A WEEK!! EVERY WEEK!! voice actors don't work for as long, as hard and as frequently as real blue collar workers so I have no sympathy.....at all!!
I'm surprised they didn't do it sooner.
@HappyMaskedGuy Nope, but the "We deserve mor ebecause our job is hard" argument isnt all that convincing, looking at all the jobs out there that are also taxing and downright damaging and also underpayed.
That they should be payed adequately is a no brainer, but their job isnt that much harder then anybody elses is.
How about programmers, should they get a bonus for working 24h shifts when the game ships 2mil units too ? Or should they be happy with their basic sallary ?
If they arent grossly underpayed at the moment, this sounds like a "big name bonus" to me.
It's a market. If their talent is important to the sales of a game, the publisher will likely pay them well. It's obvious when a company hasn't used quality actors, and when they have. Competition for good actors should be all they need to negotiate their pay and working conditions. This sounds like more of a move by established actors to prevent competition in a market where the barrier to entry is low. Why pay Wheaton big money when you can pay an unknown actor with a great voice much less?
All this would do is increase costs to consumers. The problem for voice acting is that in most cases there are plenty of people that can do the job. Only a few, like Billy West, are irreplaceable and they are paid well for their work.
They're actors and there's an actors union and that determines whether or not actors get royalties and stuff about working conditions. If developers think they deserve same then maybe they should form a union and fight for better pay and working conditions. But more likely they'll be like most IT people and moan without doing anything about it other than quit.
I think that they absolutely deserve the same right to petition for better working conditions just like anyone else. I'm not sure about deserving more pay (I don't know the average salaries), but voice acting is very demanding work; I think they definitely deserve better conditions, at least knowing the content of the script before committing.
I went to a Con this past summer, and the voice actor for Sully from FE: Awakening was there. She did a panel on her voice acting work for video games and anime, and she said that VA for video games was so different than any other VA work. She said that she is given a script with no context for the character. They know nothing about the character, the name of the game they are working on, or anything related to the storyline. It's pretty much a blind performance. Video game companies like to keep things hush-hush so that voice actors don't accidentally or intentionally spill the beans on the game.
Companies want their employees to be able to voice characters in their games without joining the union. The union is against that.
In summary: We'll see new, non-union voice talent.
I actually have less issue with this than, say, a teachers' or airline baggers' strike. Consider: you're working a job that many other people rely on, a job that you have signed a contract to do, and now you'll turn your back on those people and your own word because you perceive you're being treated unfairly. It's really disgraceful.
I understand the complaints from many of you. "Those rich actors don't deserve more money!" I can honestly say that most voice actors are not "rich" by anyone's measure. I am a voice actor. I've been in the industry for almost five years. I've finally broken into the territory where I almost do not need a second job to support my family. When you read a part for an extended period of time, your vocal cords become raw. Especially when you're performing an unnatural dialect, or many of them. Our money is made by continually auditioning for new roles and obtaining them. I can't tell you how many auditions I've had to tell my agent to decline because my voice needed rest. Most roles pay what's called "scale". It's kind of like minimum wage for actors. In many cases you'll make around 100 bucks per gig. It depends on the legnth of job of course. The average full time, seasoned, in demand voice actor often earns around 45,000 dollars. Last time I checked, that is not remotely rich. I do mostly commercial and corporate work, but I do know guys who regularly perform in video games. The work is often demanding on vocal cords and reward you with scale, and not a higher wage. I've also heard reports of some companies trying to use an actor's voice for multiple projects, while only paying them once. That's really not cool. What I f you painted a picture for someone who paid you five bucks for it? What if that person turned around, copied it a thousand times and charged 20 bucks a piece for them. You'd probably think that was unfair.
What's unfair is that people can earn so much money be reading from a piece of paper. Your voice gets tired, like construction workers get tired from building i.e. a house. Professors at the universities have to talk for hours when they have class everyday. What makes these voice actors so special?
One dubious thing that sucks out is that the union doesn't want devs to do voices unless they register with the union as part of their proposal.
Devs don't get residuals, the publishers usually get it.
"...Asking us to go into something with absolutely zero knowledge about the project, or what we'll be expected to do if we are cast, is completely unreasonable.
Maybe someone has a moral objection to the content of a game, and they'd like to know what it is before they commit to it."
Correct me if I am wrong but... it was determined that he was going to do the voice acting well into the development of this game and this often happens with many roles. People can do research, find out what a game is before they agree in the majority of cases so I don't really agree with this statement.
Also, at the same time, celebrity voice actors can sometimes make upwards into the millions for voice acting. Not totally sure with the video game industry but with movies, some make a ton of money. Overall, voice acting shouldn't get nearly as much money as real acting because there is so much less, at the same time, the fact that Wil Wheaton out of all people complaining about money is just stupid. He is already worth millions and he makes millions every year.
So... do I have sympathy for him? Nope. He knew what he was getting into and if he doesn't like voice acting, then maybe he shouldn't sign up for it.
First world problem.
I'm a union supporter for those that need it - hard manual labor physical demanding types - but it surprises me voice actors even need a union. Can't the company just get internal people to do it? Or if you make it big like Hamils or Baker demand your own price? Sure, working a 7 hour day yelling may run your voice for a week, but how often do video game voice over actors work? Don't like yelling - walk out. Don't like walking into things blind, don't walk in. Just doesn't like the kind of situation that screams industry wide strike to me.
I'm on the side of the Voice Actors.
Also, I don't care what people say, I love Wil Wheaton.
This will destory the localization of Genei Ibun Roku #FE. I hope they get this sorted out soon.
@ALinkttPresent Or it'll mean subs only.
... I'm okay with that!
@EllenJMiller I'd be okay with that too! The Japanese version looks so amazing, I'd probably play it in subbed form either way And this strike appears to be happening in the US, so maybe the game will get British voice actors like Xenoblade
@shaneoh
That is a more than reasonable request. If I'm a Christian, maybe I don't want to take on a role that involves a lot of cursing and blasphemy.
You may not think twice bout it, but some people do and will.
I definitely think video game voice actors are a bit under appreciated. I love the voice work in the Assassin's Creed games for example.
Their effort needs to be recognized and not taken for granted, as the article stated.
@Dezzy I wouldn't dismiss voice actors as rich people. Sure you get the outliers like the cast of the simpsons or some movie trailer announcers but the folks that do regular voice acting like games and anime dubs? Yeah they get paid pretty poorly and often inconsistently. I think many smaller cartoons suffer the same.
Still if this goes through delays to everything but Zelda is going to happen. While I wish them the best on their pay sometimes I wish we were still in the pre-voice-acting-for-all-games era. Especially now that many rpgs are giving player created characters voices. Jennifer Hale could read me the phone book but Mark Meer is the reason I can not finish a male shep playthrough...even though I'd like to romance Ashley. If the game had no PC voice acting at all I could put the voice I think my Shepard should have in my head and play just fine.
I'd rather the people that actually MADE the game get the incentives.
I could care less about voice acting.
I can see both sides of the argument on this. I just hope the VA's keep their requests reasonable as many game companies these days would just cut the voices out of the game (or hire non union-ed temp workers) to fulfill there game's need. I wish both sides the best, and hope it works out ok!
Is it just me or does Wil Wheaton look like a total douche?
I don't like Will Wheaton, but there are so many struggling voice actors out there and that is an absolute fact, I know one myself. Its good to hear the guild is finally supporting these lesser known talents.
Every job had it's trials and heartache but when it comes down to it, it's all about how many people on the planet Earth can do that job that dictates the pay amount.....usually. Pro athletes get paid what they do because not everyone can throw a baseball 98 mph, or place a ball in the upper 90 every time they shoot a soccer ball, or run down a running back that is 70lbs lighter then you. Other jobs are similar. Doctors save lives and it takes a special person to be away from their family and to study as much as they do. Voice acting though? Come on! I often think why studios and developers pay celebrities to do voice work when they could easily audition people for the parts and find someone unknown to do the same quality work for cheaper; and then put that money towards something else. I love his board game show he does but I don't like him. He's by far the worst thing about the show. I only watch it because I like his guest and the overall format of the show.
@Dakt I haven't, but I can imagine. He has the face of a pretentious douchebag.
Not sure about the full matter, there are a ton of details that need to be addressed one by one for understand how much these voice actors are right in their demands, but at least getting the infos about what you are getting casted for sound fair enough, I can't believe they usually have to accept the job without knowing what they signed into >.>;;;
@Crimson_Ridley Tom Cruise also helps produce the movies he's in. He gets a bigger take because he takes a bigger risk. VAs don't have remotely that kind of involvement in their projects.
But yeah, if VAs think they can get away with a strike go right ahead. This would be the perfect opportunity for the industry to find some fresh new talent instead of listening to the same handful of actors in every single game.
Wil is a corny turd.
Most unnecessary thing in video games? Voice actors.
Legend of Zelda and Mario are some of the best franchises of all time - one never speaks, the other one only knows about 20 words.
Less is more. Fire them all and just hire homeless people off the streets who will just ask for food to do the voice acting.
The ignorance on this thread is ludicrous. Voice actors go through a lot and it's completely understandable for them to request this. We often see a blockbuster hit and think the voice actors get respective pay — they don't. Because their favor is not on the screen, the voice actors get so much less pay than movie actors.
And sure, they may not be "hard-working blue collars," but they still deserve these rights. We cherish Xenoblade Chronicles for many reasons, but the voice actor for Shulk does a stupendous job in bringing the story to life ( need I site the battle scene at Colony 9). The part of their body that brings the magic to the audience — the part that brings the bread to the table — is in question and it's only understandable that the vocal cords be treated properly.
Who would notice if they went on strike ? Everyone should be entitled to good working conditions, but when voice "actors" get paid more for a few hours reading than teachers or paramedics get in a year ..... then there cause will draw very little sympathy.
@crimson_ridley Tom Cruise produces his movies ..... glad someone fell for that BS..... Does he balls!
@XCWarrior please leave your outlandish statements at home.
In those regards, we should care not about the artist who visually brings the game to fruition. Or the composer who brings the music. Mario and Zelda are cherished franchises, but it's silly to think they're the only ones — or constitute for most of them. If your name is derived from Xenoblade Chronicles, then I ask you to imagine the game with its loads of cut scenes to lack voice acting.
And personally, I think Zelda could use some voice acting in the upcoming games. Maybe not by Link, but adding the right kind of voices makes the rest of the world feel alive.
@617Sqn you really have no concept of the working artist. As a teacher surrounded by friends/musicians who audition day to day to land a gig, I am grateful for landing my job. While i love teaching kids, I chose it over the musicians life due to stability. Voice actors are no different. And for the average voice actor, they don't get paid us much as me. We always look at high waged actor and think s/he is the pay standard. That really isn't the case
Wimps!😂 who's troy baker?
@EllenJMiller We can only hope.
@Yorumi few things:
1. No, most people in the highest pay grades did not simply 'work hard,' most came from familial wealth, often dating back to periods of exploitable, free labor like slavery, 1800s immigrant waves from places like Ireland, child labor and Jim Crow era labor for blacks. In other cases, some of the most well-to-do families essentially copied or stole other inventors and/or entrepreneur's ideas and used their existing wealth to proliferate at the 'creator's' expense.
2. When you speak of 'creating' food in grocery stores, or 'creating' a common pharmacy, that is labor creating that, not capital. Capital doesn't create. Labor does. In the most basic sense, you can put a parcel of metal and a slab wood down with a small bottle of stain, but unless someone makes a door out of it, you can't call it a door. Likewise, you can't call a tree lumber until labor makes it so. And yet, capital gains (rather than creates) wealth at an exponential rate while labor creates wealth for capital and only gains wealth at very low level rates, often just enough to get labor to come back the next day. The capital/labor arrangement you describe is like an abusive domestic relationship and employers can do better than that.
3. Perhaps you come from a capital class, and if so, that would explain a lot. Otherwise, a laborer who would curse fellow laborers is only cursing himself. When you tell other laborers to sit down and shut up and enjoy the scraps they have, then you open yourself up to the same criticism. Capital has conditioned labor to accept reality as is, without any hope for an alternative and that is a shame. Arguments like yours only serve to reinforce that notion.
4. If video game voice actors want to strike, let them. As much fun as it is to hear a bunch of armchair CEOs talk about their worthlessness, I'd like to see critics cross the picket line and become scabs that do the job just as well. Something tells me most people don't have a dynamic enough voice to be effective. If voice actors feel their labor is worth more than they are being offered it should be their right to withhold their labor. People talk about markets for products, armchair economists talk about supply and demand... Why should labor not be allowed to sell their commodity in the same manner as capital?
Simply put, if PepsiCo isn't getting what they feel is fair value for Pepsi soda, they exit the market or seek new prices. If labor doesn't get what they feel their labor is worth, they too should be able to exit the market or negotiate new prices/wages.
Good thing Xenoblade Chronicles X's voice work will be done before any of this hits the fan. Because after that, I really don't care. Start fresh. Let the Tara Strongs and Troy Bakers find a new source of income. If I was being paid 1/10 of what these people make in the average year, I would live my life to the fullest and never complain.
Unions are awful, evil things. And this one is no exception, no matter how hard they try to justify it.
I support this, actually. There isn't really that much of a difference between voice acting for movies, tv, and video games, so why not have similar pay and benefits?
I can also sympathize on the voice stress. I volunteer at a local haunted attraction every October, and can attest that near-constant shouting and voice changing for hours at a time is hard on the vocal cords. You have to learn how to manage your voice to keep it from wearing out.
If you look at the difference between English and Japanese voice actors, it's clear that the English actors are nowhere near as respected as their Japanese counterparts. I think they do deserve a lot of respect for their profession and that all begins at the people who hire them to do work
What about telemarketers? They HAVE to talk all day long constantly with no breaks aside from lunch.
The voice actors have a point on MoCap work and should be compensated for that if the role requires it and not just voice acting.
However I take issue with the comparisons to how film actors are paid, movies aren't the same as games. A film can generate money in several ways (box office, home video
sales, broadcast deals) whereas games make money once. There is only so much to go around and demanding back end money seems unworkable.
I'm far more worried about the stress of real physical labor and the lack of benefits that often go along with those jobs.
@Yorumi If most of the wealth in this country was "new wealth" than the middle-class wouldn't be shrinking and the top 1% wouldn't hold a higher ratio of wealth than at any point in US history.
Is Charles Martinet also on the strike?
The only reason that any of you are able to post on this forum about why unions are the enemy etc. is because the unions have fought for working conditions that allow people to have a work life balance.
@Senario absolutely right.
@Yorumi That's kinda how mankind survived for the thousands of years before international corporations, minus the worldwide shipping. Human history is the story of how people just got together and decided on their own to grow food (give or take kings and slavemasters dicking around with things).
@Gelantious
The same reason that a lot of people that do the most work on movies don't get a bonus. They are not a STAR!
I'm noticing a lot people here don't seem to recognize how hard VAing actually is.
You can spend up to multiple hours in a hot, humid room trying to keep a specific type voice that can really hurt to do or even cause actual physical harm, only to be paid hella poorly. Not to mention the training to gain control a huge level of control over your vocal range and learning how to act through voice alone while maintaining that tone.
Voice acting (much like anything else ever) sounds easier than it actually is.
That being said though, I don't think they really deserve a cut of the profits for such a smaller portion of a ordeal that is game development.
I've spent some time with animation voice actors at conventions and I typically hear the same thing every time someone asks how they got into some popular role. They don't pick and choose what jobs they do, they apply for everything because if they don't then they don't eat. They love what they do, but they make just enough to get by. Of course this is animation and not video game. I don't often see the two overlap, at least not with the shows/games I tend to watch/play. I know WoW uses a lot of in house people for new voices and occasionally grab someone like Jim Cummings for characters like Lorewalker Cho but that's really it. VAs like Jim Cummings and Tara Strong are just everywhere. The rest wish they could be so lucky to constantly have work like that.
The point is as hard as it is for animation VAs I can only imagine how much harder it is for video game VAs. I think Wil means we'll and wants to help his fellow VAs, but he isn't the best representative since he has made quite a bit of money from his acting career. Not all voice actors have that kind of money. Heck, most don't even get recognized for their work! I regretfully admit I sat right next to one at a hotel bar at a convention and had no clue until someone told me. And VAs I wasn't as excited to see turned out to be characters I loved in other shows. I saw an MLP convention turn into an Edd, Ed, and Eddy con because the two guests who were minor MLP roles were also Edd and Ed.
I think better working conditions for sure should be a priority, at least so that they can go audition for more work and not have their voices shot.
@Yorumi
Foolish reasoning like that is how the world is sinking so fast and greedy scumbags get away with so much before getting caught. But that's okay it's for the greater society.
@ZeroZX-Dev I knew a guy who did voice acting on the side. I had the opportunity to go to the studio with him because they wanted him to do a couple of takes for a new scene, I was amazed how long it takes to do "a couple of takes". I have lots respect for them because they are giving life and personalty to characters that many times they only are given a general overview of.
I used to hate Will Wheaton because of Wesley, but then I started to like him because of Big Bang Theory, but then I started to hate him again because of Will Wheaton
Didn't Mark Hamill stop voicing the Joker, because it strained his voice too much?
@readyletsgo The writer's strike of 2007-08 sucked as it took one of my all-time favorite shows, "Chuck" down to a 13 episode season one.
@Ryu_Niiyama I clearly DIDN'T dismiss them as rich people if you read the whole comment. I said a lot of the people pushing this cause seem to be rich people and that maybe it should be the unknown names pushing it. That might make it look more legitimate and less of just a power grab.
Has no one else bothered to look into the longer list of reasons why VA are considering striking? Wheaton has posted it and it's more than money involved. Much easier to just call the man a douche than to look into the situation a bit.
@Yorumi
Most of the wealthy here in the states are old money. They are the ones who run things according to The Golden Rule: Them that has the gold makes the rules.. For every self-made millionaire there are multiple inheritance babies. Altruism is a grand idea, but do not for a moment think they do not protect their own at any expense which only they can afford.
Do you really believe the Bushes, the Rockefellers, the Kennedy's mowed lawns to get their start in life? Many, many of today's truly wealthy got there thru nefarious practices. This is true the world over.
We are living in skewed times when athletes and celebrities are worth more than those really benefitting mankind.
Do I want another French Revolution? No. But to pretend the playing field can become equal if only the lazy serfs would show some gumption, pull up their bootstraps and other nonsensical cliches is rubbish.
@GraveLordXD Voice actors in Zelda aren't needed, but would arguably would add a nice element to the game. Hiring untrained homeless to voice act is just ludicrous.
@Yorumi there are people dying of starvation all across the world, right now. Are they not trying hard enough? 95% of the world's money is owned by 5% of the population. Fact. What kind of capitalist dreamland do you live in where hard work overcomes the rich power elite and mega corporations. Good luck with life, I hope you find success in what you choose to do. I'm not sure you'll enjoy reading that post about hard work being everything if your plans fail despite hard work further down the line. Life is hard for everyone at some point.......
@Yorumi I'd argue that depends on the game itself. Some games don't need voice acting, as GraveLordXD has argued. 2D Zeldas definitely don't need them, nor do many Mario games. But using Nintendo games as an anchoring point, it's accurate to say that Star Fox having voices lifts up the game—be it the SNES version that had a non-English language or the following which had more comprehensive language. Xenoblade Chronicles ESPECIALLY needed voice acting. While the game could do with on screen text, it was such a cinematic experience that you couldn't have the game conceivably without it.
If we treat games like an art rather than a commodity, I think we'd have a different appreciation for it. Music isn't needed in games, but it lifts the Zelda series to a new level. Sound effects aren't needed either, but they give a more cathartic experience in every game. The same goes with voice acting—and the better the quality, the better the art.
Now i understand why noone takes videogamers siriously. So much stupidity in this thread.
@Yorumi
I don't pretend to have a solution to how narcissistic and shallow society has become. Nor do I entertain debates that end with the equivalent of 'America: love it or leave it'.
I briefly considered not buying code name steam because of how awful wheaton is. I'd rather the actual devs see better work conditions, you know the people who actually make the game.
Voice actor strike? That's new.
@Yorumi Your arguments are well stated. I'm glad you posted what you did.
@yorumi. Preach. I love how people forget how poor the majority of people in the world were prior to the rise of capitalism and that it's because of capitalism that most people in the countries that use it are able to feed their families and even able to buy things not vital for survival. I really don't see how people can look at how bloated the American government has become and think 'hey we should make that even bigger!'
But this whole VA actor situation is really a nonissue as far as I'm concerned. They can just not take the job if the pay isn't right or they have some kind of moral objection too it. Not to mention I really am not a fan of Mr. Wheaton.
@Yorumi after a long bad day, reflecting on what I wrote I sounded a bit stroppy and my comparisons are far from the point. Apologies.
I guess I took offense to the idea that hard work and a can do attitude can make you a millionaire, that you get a fair reward for your efforts in life. In one sense I truly admire your view if that is how you see the world, those principles are the key beliefs that can take you far. To be 'successful' you need to have that attitude and I respect that.
I myself to have a more liberal/leftist view of the world and maybe the world makes you jaded but I've travelled allot and been to communist countries and whilst that isn't a system that could ever work it reminded me that the world doesn't have to be so driven by money. I am a little idealistic but it's the same thing that drives you to a degree, we just want a different thing. How the world 'should' work is the big question really and its not one for this forum I guess
Wait, they aren't even aware of the rolls they will be playing? That's just nuts.
@Azikira Not really, Hellena Taylor who voices Bayonetta said this in an interview last year.
"I was given some lines to read and a five-line description of the character and a black and white line drawing of her. I had the usual five minutes to prepare it before I went into the room to record the audition. You never have much information to go on and you don’t really know what they are looking for. It’s shooting in the dark really. So I always make bold choices."
@Einherjar Personally I choose to admire people who stand up for themselves and take pride in their work. Most people are of the apathetic, unmotivated variety when it comes to workplace injustices, which is frankly pathetic. Good on these guys for making a stand. Support them, or at least give them the benefit of your doubt, considering your clear lack of actual knowledge concerning how hard their work is. Your and a programmer's jobs are irrelevant to the argument entirely.
Honestly, after listening to the english voice cast of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn I now (when possible) set every game's VA to Japanese.
It saves your ears, man.
@Mr_Zurkon
That was exactly what I was going to post!
I remember the interview from Taylor because Bayonetta is one of my favourite games, and I really was surprised by what she said. Plus, stressing your voice can have serious consequences on the long run. I support this, many times because a job is not visible you can't see the strains and how their working conditions are.
I kinda want to see this happen. I want to see how it affects the AAA industry (how they won't have voice actors or at least the good ones) and to see if it wakes the entire industry up to either start seriously talking about unions or at least trying to get better working conditions from publishers.
@Artwark I believe so, but even if he wasn't as a member of the union he'd be obligated to follow if the group votes to strike.
@HappyMaskedGuy I just love that youre not a total keaton Very sympathatic person...but im becoming sarcastic again.
But in all seriousness, this isnt just a matter of paying voice actors adequatly, under the asked for conditions, it also causes a lot of unpredictable future costs for devs / publishers.
They get payed for a job well done and recieve future payment should the game sell well enough.
Should this become the norm, i can see several smaller studios not hireing VAs at all to avoid such a problem.
Normally, if were not talking about Scrooge McGame Publisher here, income from one game flows directly into the next project, with calculateable backup funds should things go south.
WIth this, devs / publishers must also calculate further VA costs depending on a games sales. This. plus localization issues can cause quite a lot of problems.
Where I think they should be paid properly, especially if it's a vocally straining role, I have to wonder what exactly do they get paid now? How does payment work? Are they already getting paid enough for what they do? I don't know.
I think he's also over estimating how much voice acting matters in games in the sense of who the voice actor is, as though I actually care who is doing the voice acting. All I care about is whether it's good or not, not who is doing it. Even then, bad voice acting won't really hurt my enjoyment all that much either. I tend not to really remember the voice acting very much at all, or notice it whilst playing.
If something isn't going to really make or break a game (which voice acting won't), companies aren't going to pay a premium for voice actors. Is it strenuous? Maybe, but it's just not logical to pay somebody excessive amounts for something not that important, especially when there's tons of young hopefuls who'll jump at the chance to do it for next to nothing.
Wow, this exploded. I haven't even begun to read all the comments here, but y'know, I side with these folks' union on this. For as much as is wanted outta these folks, they oughta know what all they're getting into and have due coverage for their brad-&-butter throats.
In our browsings of Netflix, ran upon two relevant pieces: 'I Know That Voice' (2013), and 'That Guy ... Who Was in That Thing' (2012), though the latter is of live action actors and apparently has a sequel this year. Anyway, good insight on what goes into all this zazz.
@XCWarrior Yeah, because I totally want a person who has no experience doing voice acting being the voice behind iconic characters like Ryu, Sonic, Batman, and countless other characters.
Here's another idea, why don't we just fire all the writers and replace them with high school students ? It could save companies like Nintendo and others money to have their games written by teenage interns who are looking for extra credit for their English class!
Now that is an appealing thought huh? We could have all video games feature voice acting by homeless people, stories written by high schoolers, and a Casio keyboard composing the music!
Voice actors should have a fair chance to ask for more money. Most of them are not top tier actors who star in Disney, Pixar, or Dreamworks movies, or ones that star in long running shows like the Simpsons who pretty much have a guaranteed role until the show ends.
Most of them work from job to job, and I would have to assume they have a higher risk of being replaced pretty much at will. To put it another way, people will notice if another actor is suddenly playing a role in a TV show or movie.
Look at David Hayter. He was the voice of Snake for over ten years, and he suddenly got dumped by Konami. In a role that he assumed was his since he had held it for so long. He did not even have a chance to compete for the role, it was simply taken from him.
Sonic has gone through numerous voice actors over the years, and the first cast that worked on the Adventure games just got dumped one day because Sega wanted the 4Kids cast to take over.
My point is this, is it wrong to ask for more money when your project sales millions of copies or you are voicing an iconic character? Especially since you stand a higher chance of being dumped from your role when ever the producing company feels like it?
To dismiss them with the statement that "Lets just replace then with homeless people" is insulting. So, why don't we replace striking factory or airline workers with homeless people? After all, you can just pay them in food. I bet companies would love to exploit another cheap source of labor to save a few bucks so their upper management can buy their fancy toys or go on vacations.
By the way, you brought up Mario and Zelda as examples of games that don't use voice acting.
But let's not ignore Nintendo franchises that do use a good amount of voice acting in their games, such as Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Star Fox, Smash Bros, Kid Icarus, and a handful of others.
Let me understand this. You would be fine with Chrom, Lucina, Ike, Pit, or Fox being voice by some random homeless guy they find on the street?
It's nice to know there are at least a couple of people with sense commenting on these stories. I cannot believe anyone here actually believes wealthy people invest their wealth into projects that benefit society. There are some altruists, but the majority of the wealthy don't actually do anything to benefit anyone but those who cater to their whims. Very few are starting companies or funding start-ups. Mainly they're sinking money into tax havens, real estate overseas, jewellery, cars, horses and yachts.
Real wages for everyone except the really wealthy have been falling since the 1970s. Anyone opposing unions today can look forward to having a job replaced by software or a robot in the next fifty years to ensure that trend continues. So by all means defend your betters while you can - you will live to see the light.
@Einherjar It is at this point that any possible valid argument you may have had goes out the window. The fact that you feel it appropriate to call me a keaton over an issue which frankly has nothing to do with you, shows you up for what you are. Enjoy flinging faeces with the rest of the apes.
@Sean_Aaron tips cap
@Yorumi Um...you must really not like us "poor people".
My father is on the high tier of the business he works for and has worked for 20 years and he still is lucky to make 50K a year while the bigwigs at the company make 10M a year including the CEO who inherited the job from his father.
"Maybe someone has a moral objection to the content of a game, and they'd like to know what it is before they commit to it."
Didn't take him long to get down to moral outrage becoming a factor in something.
@Caryslan You do know the Star Fox cast was Nintendo staff they just picked to voice the actors, right? And there is no better dialogue in the history of media - TV, movie, videogames, radio, etc - as amazing as the Star Fox 64 dialgoue? So no, you really can find anyone to do the voice work.
Gameplay > everything else.
And most video game stories are so bad, we all wish they'd higher high school students do them, because it would be an improvement.
@Haiassai I hate when athletes, actors, and other rich people go on strike demanding more money. And I don't understand why poor people defend the rich people who want to be richer. Other people are skill enough to do the same job for less money. I want Nintendo to make money each year, so just hire someone that can speak good English and I'm fine. B/c gameplay > everything else.
My name is XC - Cross Country + Warrior - mascot of my HS. Like Xenoblade, but no tie there.
@XCWarrior Also it's not like expensive VA are guaraneed to be good. Bungie probably paid a lot for Peter Dinklage to voice in Destiny and it was so bad they ended up having it changed slightly before launch and now they've replaced all his dialogue with Nolan North.
Voice acting seems to me like it can be a very wasteful part of videogame spending. I'd even argue in story heavy games it can potentially stifle the script because unlike text only they can't make any adjustments to voice acted scripts after the VA is done without having to bring voice actors back to re-do lines(and if they're busy with a more lucrative project just getting them back would probably be a hassle in itself) or cutting dialogue they paid for to improve the game's flow.
I think minimal voice acting can be pretty effective. Like Mario, LoZ, 3DS Fire Emblem(since outside cutscenes the characters are voiced but the dialogue itself isn't fully voice acted) and Star Fox having short lines since it gives the character personality without all the troubles involved and probably means the game doesn't have to sell as much to be a success.
I'm tired of seeing this Will Wheaton fellow.
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