We're in the midst of a brief spell of Nintendo NX rumours, possibly as a result of it appearing behind closed-doors - according to multiple industry sources such as MCV - at E3, and the timelines that point to a 2016 release have cranked the rumour mill into gear. First there were reports of manufacturing timelines and a planned summer 2016 release, which had a blend of possibility and eye-raising unlikely assertions. More recently we have speculation that the NX platform won't compete with the PS4 in terms of power.
The source for this latest rumour is Liam Robertson of the Unseen64 parish, a group well known and respected for digging up information on cancelled projects, abandoned prototypes and general games industry secrets. Liam has even written on Nintendo Life recently, so while these are still rumours and his source and info may not be 100% accurate, there's certainly a case to be made that it should be considered solid information. It could all change by the time NX is revealed to the world, but the very idea that the system could fail to challenge the grunt of PS4 and Xbox One - as they're very similiar, in broad terms - is one that's got people talking.
First of all, what do we mean by 'power'. It actually encompasses various aspects, but for many is associated with graphics and how pretty games are on a system. That's certainly one angle, but power isn't just about processor speeds and graphics cards, but can relate to memory and how a system calculates and processes data. For example, a trend with the Wii U is that with game designs that are scripted, linear or stage-based it can shine, but courtesy of its GPU and CPU balance it can sometimes struggle with open world games. Watch Dogs, the Assassin's Creed games and LEGO City Undercover are examples that can chug a little. Power can also relate to networking capabilities, the ability to multi-task and more besides.
A good example with the PS4 is that, in some specifications, it's on par with a mid-to-high end PC, but is lagging behind hulking gaming rigs. Yet it can deliver impressive results when in the hands of the right developers, as it's a dedicated gaming machine designed to make the most of its resources for gaming and in-game recording / streaming. A typical PC gamer may have a rig 'better' than a PS4, but if they're running Windows and assorted background software may struggle to match the performance of a game on Sony's system. There's a degree of apples and oranges to this, but the point is that power is relative to how it's used and how it's allocated; developers of open world games want a different set of hardware strengths to those creating a linear, graphically intensive experiences.
Anyway, talk of NX 'power' does naturally bring to mind the games that we'll end up playing, and the sorts of experiences currently defining the current-gen in Sony and Microsoft circles. Some of the most critically acclaimed and hyped games of the year are also the most demanding for hardware, such as The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt and Batman: Arkham Knight, while procedurally generated experiences like No Man's Sky are given a lot of focus. The trend for some is to have large worlds that are fully integrated, have limited or no loading screens and have reams of content and freedom. Now, Nintendo may be doing that in its own way with Super Mario Maker as a creation tool, but Wii U - as a necessity - is more about tightly structured experiences. That's not a criticism, just the nature of the game library on the system.
With NX, Nintendo's in an interesting place. Its timing (let's assume late 2016 / early 2017 at this stage) certainly points to taking over for the 3DS, and as we've written before the Wii U's struggles will likely see that fade away too. Our continuing instinct is for a platform that, in some way, incorporates both portable and home console gaming, potentially with the option to opt for one over the other or have both. Nintendo's being close-lipped, naturally, and we could be wrong.
Whatever form it takes, talk of limited 'power' aren't necessarily surprising, especially as Nintendo will have been closely monitoring its own recent results and general industry-wide trends. Nintendo has had two poor launches with systems that came out with a premium price - 3DS then Wii U - and the former was partly rescued by a handsome price cut in its first year. In both cases the pricing could be tied to confidence following the dominance of the DS and Wii, but also to Nintendo's general approach of trying to sell hardware at a profit per unit, while Sony and Microsoft have been known to subsidise their systems, make a loss and count on revenue from games and accessories to fill the gap.
The Wii, in particular, was a lesson of how less powerful but clever hardware could succeed, especially helped along by undercutting the costs of its rivals. The 3DS took off once games were allied to a cheaper price, despite it having less grunt that the Vita, but the Wii U had the issue of being relatively expensive - while lacking a 'generational leap' under the hood - and failing to take off conceptually with the mainstream audience.
My personal instinct is that the masses, in a broad sense, respond to technology in two distinctive ways. Either something is perceived as cutting edge and high quality, and is worth paying out for, or tech can be cheaper but offer throwaway fun. So the latest iPad will cost a lot but deliver the whizz-bang apps from aspirational Apple adverts, while a budget tablet - like an Amazon Fire - is cheaper but functions quite well, offering readily available if not advanced entertainment. The middle ground is fairly empty, or full of those Windows tablets that not many people buy, and the last-gen did the same in gaming - the Wii was fun and cheap in its early years, while the 360 cost more but was HD. Both had large audiences.
The Wii U, arguably, fell into the doomed middle ground when it launched, and so Nintendo needs to target that lower bracket. The product can be fun, exciting and enticing, but it also needs to be affordable, with a cost low enough to seem like a relatively mild investment. A lot of commerce is psychological, so targeting a price like $199 would serve Nintendo better than $299 - the fact is that Nintendo isn't deemed 'premium' in the market, with the 3DS launch and Wii U proving that. Nintendo is associated more - in relatively recent history, we're not talking about the old days - with affordable fun.
The only way to be affordable is to be clever with old technology, as Nintendo was with DS, Wii and - to some extent - 3DS. What's both thrilling and terrifying about NX is that it'll probably sink or swim on concept alone, as the gaming space is full of cheap or common gaming options - namely last-gen systems and tablets / smartphones. The idea of the NX will need to grab the attention of millions of consumers, and have experiences that make it a must have platform. A portable / home console hybrid would perhaps help with that, as over 50 million 3DS units have been sold even in this most challenging of generations. A mix of innovation and familiar experiences are sure to be front and centre.
On the topic of 'power', then, it could come down not just to what the NX has and but how it uses those resources. The Wii was a spruced up GameCube but had motion controls, and the concept of the NX will need to combine with enough juice to draw in the intended audience; that core audience isn't likely to be those currently enjoying a PS4 or Xbox One, unless the concept is so clever that the NX is an addition to any gaming setup, rather like the Wii was a 'second' console of choice for millions. The power could come from how the system works in the Nintendo Network, or potential integration between different hardware, and how it changes the way we play games.
The combination of price, 'power', concept and public perception will all be key for the NX. We can't wait to see what it'll deliver.
Comments 363
Oh boy, this is gonna get awfully crowded soon.
Nonetheless, yep. It's not vital, but without it, kiss third-party support goodbye.
Didn't we kind of already have in depth discussions like this, at the other article?
Just for kicks: I foresee this article reaching 150+ by the end of today.
At the end of the day, whether the NX manages to have a respectable amount of 'power' to the PlayStation 4 or not, I genuinely believe that this system, be it a home console or a handheld hybrid that some folks think it shall be, will arguably be Nintendo's last chance in this business.
Failure is NOT an option after the agreeable failure of the Wii U, even though its first party line up is stellar.
Next year is certainly going to be interesting times for Nintendo, that much I can say!
It will be a interesting 2016 indeed.
Makes one wonder if this entire NX speculation thing is just an elaborate marketing tactic employed by Nintendo to garner more interest in the NX.
Like I've said in the previous article, Nintendo's next console should be more straightforward for both gamers and developers in order to succeed, no matter how powerful it is.
I agree with @AlexSora89
Nintendo has never needed huge processing or graphical power to make a masterpiece of a game.
The majority of third-party developers skip Nintendo platforms however, because of the graphics and controls.
NX really needs to succeed. Nintendo can't afford 3 failed launches in a row.
No power isn't the only the thing that makes for a good system. It is critical however when it comes to PR, marketing, industry buzz and ultimately consumers.
More important to the success of NX is 3rd parties and so far the response is positive judging by early reports. I hope Nintendo does well and I will more likely than not buy one.
They can't get current games ported over so if it's a console relying on android games to pad out the schedule of a handful of first party games then I don't think I'll be the only one passing this up.im not a graphics guy perse but starfox was designed to show off hardware ,3d mario was to introduce new concepts and mechanics and zelda was the standard bearer for adventure gaming.if nintendo aren't prepared to even try and live up to their legacy next time round then I'll spend money elsewhere.
Power is most certainly vital if you want to keep hardcore gamers and third party devs invested. If you can't get third party devs, you get less games and getting less games in an industry when game development time takes longer and longer is bad. Better put money on better hardware instead of the next hit or miss gimmick.
Power isn't everything, but it's useful. If Nintendo released a console with plenty of 1st party exclusives, but had the power and architecture to attract AAA 3rd parties, then I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. We'll just to wait and see whether Nintendo can come up with something else to get people to want their consoles.
power mad
@Alexsora89
I agree. For better 3rd party support I believe Nintendo needs to bridge the gap for developers to port/create games easily.
I think they should make something capable that handles what the ps4 or xbone does (if the NX is a home console)
Because it makes for more and easy third party support.
Now it seems when third parties develop, they set their limits to the Xbone/PS4 standard, because theres more market and the PC is powerful enough to handle whatever those might be able to do.
Meanwhile on nintendo, it seems that they must either do extra work to make it properly run on their system (loss in details, rewrite portions of code, etc.)
And lets not forget that some part is that most people who own nintendo don't buy stuff if it doesn't have their IPs on them.
The last Nintendo console that was the leader in "power" was the n64. Since then it's been awesome games putting Nintendo on top not gigaflops.
There's no more room for mistakes for sure. Power is indeed something that many want to see in NX. Without it, NX will go down the toilet just like Wii U, but this time people (myself included) will not tolerate the failure yet again and abandon Nintendo for good.
Also, I would love a portable/home console. Like a super charged 3ds with a docking station to play on the tv at home.
It's not the size of the boat, it's the motion of the ocean
Nintendo should make their consoles the way they are comfortable with. As long as they can bring something innovative and practical to us to NX, NX still will sell well like hotcakes. Just something that matters all--regardless of power or not.
@AlexSora89 Yeah... like the other article wasn't enough... XD.
Anyway, I think the next system needs third party support in one way or another, and the best way to achieve this is probably to put in some raw power. Sad? Maybe, but it's kinda the fact.
OF COURSE, we don't even know what the NX is.* Besides, there will still be excellent games on whatever console's next, regardless of power.
* To all the people saying the NX's a home console, please provide a link to an article or interview in which Nintendo directly said, "The NX is our next HOME CONSOLE."
Last time Nintendo was on par with competition was SNES. Tons of great games, 1st party and 3rd party. Started going downhill with the cart based N64 and Nintendo has never recovered that 3rd party support. Only Nintendo fans and parents of young kids will buy a system in 2016 that is roughly as powerful as a PS3.
I think the "not compete with PS4" rumour means that the NX is stronger than the PS4. That's why it is not competing with it.
Oh this was a good read. Yes power isn't necessary for Nintendo,but power is needed for third party dev's. Even if you hate all of them you need them to fill the gaps like the PS4 and Xbox One has.
Lol what?!
"A good example with the PS4 is that, in some specifications, it's on par with a mid-to-high end PC"
That's totally untrue. The PS4 compares more to low-to-mid-end PC. Just take GTA V for comparison. I play it on an FX-8350, 8GB RAM and a R9 290. You can still easily outperform my machine with the newest Intel processors and really expensive graphics cards (like AMD's new Radeon Fury with HBM), but I can play GTA V with everything on full (on one display). Playing on three displays with Eyefinity, I have to lower some settings a bit, but it still looks amazing. Now comparing to GTA V on the PS4 of my friend? It doesn't look so ridiculous like it did on Xbox 360/PS3, but in every important aspect - reflections, visibility range, shadows, anti-aliasing, character details and so on - it still looks worse. It looks like GTA V on a six year old PC.
In strictly linear games with narrow, prerendered levels (like all those cheap zombie games) the PS4 may look okay, but take modern, more demanding game and it completely sucks.
Oh and I completely disagree with the ipad or any Apple hardware being high-quality. It's the same quality as those low-cost tablets/phones, but with a higher price, because of the Apple logo.
Nowadays people don't buy quality or power, they just buy the name and the marketing. That's why Apple and Sony are so successful in particular, they just put a lot of money into marketing and building a brand.
That's where Nintendo is lacking the most, not computing power.
@abbyhitter Even if it was more powerful then it would still be in competition with PS4, the only way in which there's no competition is if it's much less powerful (i.e. much less powerful than XB1).
Nx shares the same exposure as wii did, back when it was called revolution.
Thanks to healthy sony competition, nintendo doesn't totally abandon power. But competing on power is a race to the bottom. To be honest, I like nintendo to be more than adequate but not to be a powerhouse competition.
I'm far more excited about how we'll play. Nx could be unified hybrid or diversified, incremental hardware. It could even hololens and bypass the tv.
I like these times. A new wind is coming, and it's gonna be fun.
@Ps4all
seems like you could be getting something like that with NX. Though my personal guess is that NX will come in two different forms (likely sold separately) something like unified platform that uses same format of the game card and saves game data directly on it so you could play that very game outdoors and continue on the TV indoors
I do enjoy the cliched phrase 'looks too good to be on the Wii U', which just shows how Nintendo have a knack of getting that extra 10% out of their consoles. The problem all comes down to triple A 3rd party- they won't produce games for the Wii U unless it's easy and it looks the same on the other consoles.
At least, that's the gneral consensus.
Personally I think the western AAA developers will never care about Nintendo any more, our audience doesn't buy their product in masses unless it's a Skylander, Disney, or Lego game. What I do think Nintendo need to do is lure Japanese developers back- Capcom, Konami, and SquareEnix. We need more of Platinum, Koei Techmo, Sega and Namco. That's the sort of quirky games Nintendp fans love- get some exclusives. Perhaps the fabled console/handheld hybrid (which really demands the console to not be too powerful to work with the handheld), is the way to get Japanese game makers on board.
I just hope they give the next one the resources to serve the online/downloading gaming they expect the modern gamer to do.
As for the 3DS dying. I'm a little worried about that. They cranked out a "new" that is superior in every way, but we haven't seen a lot of "only for" or resurgence of 3D now that it (allegedly) made the function not suck.
I feel like the NX is not gonna be what we're expecting it to be, at all.
It NEEDS to be able to run games like The Witcher 3 and Batman: Arkham Knight if it is going to have any hope of hosting any third-party software on it. And third-party games certainly aren't going to get less complex and flashy over time.
@Aromaiden 150? That's a rather low estimation . 200+ easily.
Ugh. They have to make it at least on oar par wthe xbox one. If they don't they can forget about third party support. The ps4 and xbone are similar in oower and have the same architecture. Nintendo needs to follow suit. I want more fps games in HD that I can play eith a wii remote. Or arkham knight with an interactive map on the gamepad like arkham city. Boy does that game NEED a mini map. I mean if they go under powered again players won't get the big third party releases. If they make it on par with the ps4 then they would dominate.
Heh, Though before talking about that power, Nintendo need to court in third parties first.
Power is critical for home consoles. It absolutely needs to run games like Witcher 3 and Arkham night. Why should Nintendo fans be left out? Because Nintendo is cutting corners? And it can't be weaker ports like the WiiU had. Why would I pay the same money for an inferior version? Like somebody said before, nobody would buy a phone with old technology for around the same price as the phone with the newest technology. It's July and WiiU has only released Splatoon. Look at the other consoles and compare. It's embarrassing.
My guess is that Wii U right now is ABLE to run high graphics games like Batman Arkhan Knight or Witcher 3, but third parties will need to make a lot of work. Therefore, unless Wii U is at least as powerful as PS4 or Xbox One, the system will alleviate a lot of work of those third parties, which are likely to port games to the other two systems mentioned.
Nintendo can't have its cake and eat it too. The reason to own a console is the software library and a single publisher can't keep up with the demand for quality franchises without third party support so this console needs to be more accessible to developers and also less expensive than competitors to avoid confusing the consumer.
I'm buying it no matter what!!
This NX thing could be more powerful then the NSA supercomputers and 3rd parties are not coming back because the games don't sell on Nintendo platforms.
"A typical PC gamer may have a rig 'better' than a PS4, but if they're running Windows and assorted background software may struggle to match the performance of a game on Sony's system. " >=750 TI
A new system that does not compete with current gen systems will kill any chance of true third party support.
@ShanaUnite Hah. As it is, what gets talked about most on the internet? Things that are negative. Well, the NX is getting plenty of coverage and attention for the "negativity" surrounding it, even though we know practically nothing about it. So if at the reveal it was announced to be superior than what exists now? The NX was already in the spotlight, but now people (and a lot of them) would look at it differently.
3rd P Devs "moved on" because there was nothing there for them on the U — impossible to dev for, and no audience. Give them something to dev on and they'll come back. Anybody who says otherwise is unfamiliar with the business. If Nintendo's next console is under-powered, they will have officially and totally lost the console wars for good. They will be Sega. ... I've said for years, make a modular console with upgradable parts. Add memory, add CPU, etc.
Ryno......I don't think that's true. If Nintendo had the most powerful console, you can bet 3rd party games would sell. WiiU had a bunch of inferior ports. I'm not buying those ports just because I like Nintendo. By the time Bayonetta was released, gamers saw the WiiU was dead in the water and no future for the WiiU besides a few more first party titles on the way. Nintendo must bring the power or become a 3rd party.
@Discostew I'd buy the NX even if it was a repackaged Gamecube. I waited in line overnight for the Wi U (I was the only one) and I'd do it again. I'm just speaking as someone with "a little" dev exp, if Nintendo wants third party support from more than indies, they need to compete
Make a complete Home Entertainment System for once. Fully functional and robust DVR (can be an add-on), comprehensive streaming media support (like Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Apple TV, etc with ALL the major media channels), make it a snap to dev for (you can put up a Roku channel in a few minutes, for example), if they have another Gamepad (can be an add-on) make it function as a remote and TV guide for all your media, Bluray player (just pay Sony for the usage rights), and for goodness sake give it CPU POWER because even if Nintendo doesn't think they need it the media and consumers don't know that and they publicize raw numbers. Esp if its a modular system N can promote the tricked out version as "most powerful" while the basic module is affordable.
Bravo on the title and article. People need to realize that power isn't just prettier games. It's also how a console just performs. Imagine being able to bring up miiverse instantly because of available console multi tasking? Or a faster eShop loading? There's so much Nintendo can improve with power aside from graphics.
As for the content of the article, it's true that most consumers go for either cutting edge or cheaper, throwaway experiences. And all signs point to another Wii situation. But I think Nintendo is making a big mistake thinking cheaper will mean better for them. But we will see. I think their brand is too damaged to be taken seriously by the majority of PS4/One players if it's weaker and the casuals they hope to attract won't care about a cheap dedicated console since they have phones that play games already. Leaving it in awkward territory once again. Those are my thoughts, at least
Power was NEVER vital to a consoles sucess.
Lets start at the N64 / PS1 / Saturn era, when the technical arms race actually began:
From a raw hardware standpoint, the N64 was more powerfull and versitile then both, the Saturn and the PS1, but was the least successfull.
The PS1 and Saturn both complemented each other.
The Saturn excelled at 2D graphics like no other system and the PS1 had the far better 3D processor. The PS1 won the generation.
The Dreamcast, the Link between generations lost completely, taking sega as a console manufacturer with it. It was far more powerfull then any other system on the market at that point.
GC / PS2 / Xbox era:
The Xbox was by far the most powerfull console in this generation...and in last place. The GameCube, being more powerfull then the PS2, still lost to it.
The PS2 won this gen with flying colors.
Wii / PS3 / 360:
The PS3, being far ahead of its competitors in terms of hardware, never reache dits full potential and had a really rough start. Its spotlight stolen by its technically inferior competitor, the 360. Both were pretty much head to head at the end of their lifetime. The Wii on the other hand, technically still a last gen console, was the overall winner of this gen, at least financially.
So one could say, that the it actually was the least technically advanced system that won each generation.
But times have changed drastically since then. People are more obsessed with techno babble then ever before. Its not a consoles exclusive lineup that counts, its the raw horsepower, if its used or not doesnt even matter.
Just look at the current gen and the above mentioned "The Order". An attrocious game, as bogstandard as it can be, but its pretty, so its "better then the rest" Pretty much everything exclusive to the PS4 can be described as "bogstandard at best" and yet, the console sold like hot buns.
If a console sells or not is all down to PR and the brand name. Nothing more. And believe me, Nintendo could make SkyNet - the console and people would still shun them away for being "Nintendo". and not MicroSony
The Wii managed to capitalize on a singular moment in gaming and tech, thanks to perfect timing and great design. As far as consoles go there is no "Wii"-business-modell, because there is no more market for that modell.
Also, the market has changed dramatically since then. I can't remember there being actual articles with complex charts about components used, incl. info on frequencies, shaders, bandwith and so on, in gaming articles during the Wii area. This things (unfortunately) matter a lot more today, than they did like 10 years ago.
Last but not least, a system less powerful than current gen consoles, priced at about $200, will still be only like $100 less than the occasion sales price of a X1 or a PS4 "slim" - by the time the NX is released anyways. Not to mention that porting major games to the NX will be hampered by any need to adapt to new architecture and any need to down-port while keeping the core game intact.
I've been a Nintendo fan most of my life. I absolutely love my Wii U, the games are great. But I caved and bought a PS4 as well. The problem is that with my Wii U, I feel like at times Nintendo is trying to make me ignore the limitations of the system, including weak online infrastructure, forcing me to swap controllers repeatedly (really? No Wii U pro support for settings?), and obviously low power. I think the Wii U has fantastic games that utilize the system to its fullest and produce high quality games in such a way that the low power of the system is masked. But as great as the games are, they'd be better with more power. The 3DS could benefit so much from a screen rivaling pretty much any modern smartphone, Mario Kart 8 would be so much better if the frame rate didn't drop ridiculously low on 3-4 player local play, Hyrule warriors would be a lot more enjoyable if the resolution and frame rate didn't go to pot when you had a second player. Plus, I would like party chat, messaging, the ability open the home menu without closing my game, third party games, etc...
Nintendo does what it does well with low power, but they could benefit so much from a higher powered system.
System power encapsulates a lot of things but doesn't begin to tell the whole story as to whether a console can or will be successful. A lot comes down to what you're wanting the platform to accomplish, how versatile it needs to be (I highly recommend a traditional joypad interface and leave the "innovation for the GAMES), and the specific needs of the games that would be running on it.
For instance, the Sega Saturn was less powerful than the PSX but its architecture enabled its 2D sprite-based titles to be superior to its competitor's (side-by-side comparisons of Mega Man 8 demonstrate this). And despite being tragically underrated and so much of its INCREDIBLE library (one of the best RPG/SRPG platforms EVER) unseen ever since, the Saturn used its strengths to provide some of my personal all-time best gaming memories.
I bring this up because of seeing that Mario demo in Unreal Engine 4. It looks GOOD, but somehow doesn't look quite RIGHT. Many of Nintendo's properties feature visual aesthetics and animations that render bleeding edge system power or software engines unnecessary. A side note: yes that's a first party thing and Nintendo's call on that end, but I do hope that the NX will at the very least be able to accommodate third party developers on whatever projects they may wish to do; it would certainly help in a lot of ways. If you look back across the history of consoles and especially the earlier generations, it's amazing what determined developers were able to make work with hardware that supposedly was incapable of this or that. The NX doesn't have to be as powerful as the PS4 to be powerful ENOUGH.
Cost to the consumer is another sticky issue that isn't being discussed as much as it should be. Nintendo has always leaned toward trying to keep the consoles as low cost at the original point of sale as possible. Will serious hobbyists pay more for greater horsepower and more bells and whistles? Of course, but as with so many other things in today's gaming industry, our demographic isn't the one most companies consider first. They're intent on making it accessible to the masses of casuals and parents out there who are just looking for an appropriate system for the children to play on. It stinks from a hobbyist's standpoint but that demographic more than any other has kept Nintendo's coffers full, especially since the Wii.
Man we need a new Nintendo Direct soon, I can't take much more of this NX stuff.
@WOLF13 No, Ryno is correct. 3rd party games don't sell on Nintendo home consoles. That is a fact. Nintendo gamers will always prefer to have 3rd party games on other platforms or they outright ignore 3rd party games regardless of how good of a port it is (granted, the good ports the Wii U got were either late or, in ME3's case, an inferior and downright insulting value).
There is no reason for 3rd parties to support Nintendo's consoles as their games simply don't sell on those platforms and other gamers have no reason to switch to Nintendo for 3rd party games that they can get on the other platforms.
3rd party exclusives? The general view on those is becoming more and more negative by the day - it's viewed as an anti-consumer practice.
@rjejr The next Direct probably isn't until August, unless of course they hold a game-specific Direct in the mean time.
The NX will be a make or break system for Nintendo.
Nintendo needs to attract third parties more then they have been in the past three, four generations. This has to change. No questions asked. And power attracts third parties, sadly.
I prefer to have the 3rd party games on other platforms because they are better on those platforms. It's extremely rare a game was better on a Nintendo console.....even looking back at Gamecube.
Nintendo has made it difficult on 3rd parties in the past....with their architecture or publishing fees. Nobody wanted to work with cartridges for N64.....Nintendo was stubborn and should have used discs.
Today....horse power matters. Consumers are going to buy the best version of the game.
@rjejr: Did you miss E3, Nintendo blew their load. All they have is a PS2 looking Star Fox game, a delayed Woolly World, a game titiled one letter because they couldn't bother with that and that they have been parading around for years (despite Nintendo saying that they don't do that) and some Animal crossing party games. Time to move on.
If NX doesn't match PS4 for power it may aswell not bother. Wii u had everything but power and ts support disappeared as soon as ps4 was prevalent.
If you can't keep up, you're out of the running for third party support, unless you have a gimmick, and then you get short loved support.
No will definitely result in a failed console.
Nintendo's victory in the gaming industry is so close, yet so far. All it takes is making a system powerful enough to compete with everyone else and dropping the gimmicks. Nintendo is stubborn and they think that do what they want and we will always come back. If the NX fails, Nintendo is gone for good.
@KingofSaiyans It'd mostly be updates on games we already know about. Some localization announcements (coughRhythmHeavencough), more Smash DLC, an update on Devil's Third, release dates, and perhaps an actual name for SMTxFE in the west.
@Ninstarkof At least as a console competitor. I highly doubt their games will disappear.
@IceClimbers They also haven't talked about that treasure hunting game. I believe it was called Project Treasure.
Nintendo's refusal to compete with the power of other consoles means it'll once again miss out on 3rd parties unnecessarily. This year alone they will miss out on Witcher, Batman, Fallout 4, Metal Gear, Star Wars amongst others and all because Nintendo believe they are not in competition with their competitors.
Now imagine a Nintendo console which could play all these games plus Nintendo's exclusives and have a normal controller, half decent online features and a real account system and tell me you'd rather have an underpowered console with silly controls and no potential to have any of the games mentioned above
@Aromaiden you'll be surprised. Nintendo wasn't always a gaming company and they certainly don't need to stay one. What if their "quality of life" product sky rockets and the NX does a Virtual Boy?
@Aromaiden They talked about Project Treasure in the Mini Direct at the end of May. However, we will be due for more details by the next Direct.
@Ryno the whole reason why it doesn't sell is because of the gimmicks and the type of CPU they use. Those two things scare off developers and costumers
@TheAlbinoLion look at the company that's in charge
@Ninstarkof: Except the Wii U launched with decent 3rd party support but no one bought those games. 3rd Party games do not sell very well on Nintendo consoles. It has been this way since the N64.
To Nintendo, power doesn't matter.
What matters are fans who continue to throw their money at them no matter what they do.
@Ninstarkof I highly doubt Nintendo would ever give up their highly cherished franchises, such as Mario and Zelda even if they stop making hardware. Considering that they are some of the most well known and influential game franchises to ever exist. I can only imagine how much money Mario costs.
@DESS-M-8
Don't worry. I have a source who told me that the reason third party games aren't coming to the Wii U is because those studios are already busy secretly designing games for the NX.
I think once it launches, there will be an incredible amount of third party titles available for it on day one.
No no no. Nintendo needs to build its audience on core gamers who will keep coming back because they trust Nintendo's brand quality. If they try to win the audience of people who are content with ipad apps, they will most likely fail. Even if they succeed, this sets Nintendo up with basically becoming a mobile game developer. Since their audience is the casual crowd, they will need to make games that appeal to them, and thus they will loose even more notoriety and respect from the gaming community.
@AVahne I wouldn't go that far :/
@Ryno nobody bought those games because it had terrible online, no dlc, and were ports of games that came out a long time ago. Nintendo needs to do ot differently with the NX
@Ryno nobody bought those games because it had terrible online, no dlc, and were ports of games that came out a long time ago. Nintendo needs to do ot differently with the NX
All I want to see is Nintendo keeping up the innovation. The GamePad wasn't innovative, but still showed that Nintendo has better ideas than lazily throwing hardware together. The worst they could do is joining the childish arms race just to "be competitive". Screw that, big time! Nintendo is the last genuine console developer, and they shouldn't turn away from that. It's about games, and only about games!
@Ninstarkof The word of the day is "laziness". Many 3rd party developers have become unbelievably lazy, whether it's recycled content (or outright lack thereof), copying a success formula blindly, or simply kicking out buggy, unfinished trashcans of a game - it's happening at an alarming rate, and it's often happening at the cost of stability, storage space, and good gameplay. It happens because they get spoiled like crazy without deserving it. They don't put much effort into their games anymore, instead pumping insane amounts of money into misleading advetisement campaigns and blockbuster graphics.
In short, the laziness of 3rd parties is a good part of the reason why the WiiU doesn't get much support from them. Instead of making an effort, most of them complain about porting costs while burning at least ten times the amount on promotional bullcrap that is completely superficial. Of course there's also the competitive pressure from Nintendo's own games that scares off many, but that just goes to show how much they lack confidence in their own titles.
Furthermore, 3rd parties won't help Nintendo sell consoles anymore, since WiiU ports are already generally well-known for being bad (with very few exceptions). They screwed it up themselves, no way around it. And don't even try to tell me that the WiiU's lack of power was at fault. A game that runs on XBox360 properly, but lags around on WiiU, is evident of how lazy the port is.
But is third party support really the be all and end all? If the NX is in or with the PS4 and Xbone are people really going to get the NX to play Arkham Knight on and not a PS4? I
Last fen if a game was multi format I got it on my PS3 not my Xbox or wifi (I'm a major ninty fanboy btw) ... I don't think many more consoles will sell if it has games also on the other two.... The Nintendo console is now people's second console hat they have to play the awesome first party titles... They use their Xbone and ps4 for the rest - I can't imagine that changing anytime soon... Am I way off here?! How much will third party support sell the console really? Because that's what matters - I'll buy NX on launch I'm sure like I have every other Nintendo console...and I prove would still buy third party on my ps4 just because it's established ..
@Aromaiden you never know. It's all about the money, and if they hit jackpot with health and fail in video games, they may sell mario and move on.
@Aromaiden It's pretty sad, but I have to agree with @AVahne. Nintendo's performance at E3 this year further clarifies what Nintendo is interested in: Making money. They tried to push cheap, poorly made, dumbed-down versions of the games we actually want, just to make an easy buck. The reason Sony's presentation was so good was because they gave fans exactly what they wanted and more, instead of stupid worthless crap.
@Kaze_Memaryu it's also about hardware that has to run those games. I'll see what you you have to say when the NX comes out
@Kaze_Memaryu by definition of innovative the gamepad absolutely was. Of course it was shrouded by the popularity of tablets upon release. When the Wii U was conceived and began manufacturing tablets weren't what they were in 2012 - therefore the decision to include a tablet controller was a very ingenuitive step. Just because it didn't catch doesn't mean it wasn't innovative.
@TheAdrock : I like the idea of upgradeable parts. I just don't feel it's sustainable to have to upgrade your system of choice every 5 to 7 years and usually lose backwards compatibility or the previous gen games. I don't know what Nintendo has planned, but a unified account system with games being released from every gen from the Commodore to the upcoming NX including 1st and 3rd party titles would be huge.
@carlos82 Amen brudda. A lot of people are screaming about wanting "innovation" in Ninty's consoles, but I believe Nintendo should just make a good regular console, and instead of innovating with their consoles, innovate with their games. Games are why we buy consoles anyway, not for a screen on the controller.
@rishisquid finally, someone who gets it
I guess they'll go for being 2nd console hybrid with lots of interconnectivity with iOS etc. I already got a PS4 for graphically intense games but a Nintendo console with similar strength would've been nice.
Yeah...I don't think third parties will come back.
@rishisquid To be fair, that's the main goal of every single company. They all want to make money (cheap and efficiently) and all the game companies have done things similar to what Nintendo is currently doing. Not to mention they have all gone through similar situations. It's just right now that at this moment, it's currently happening to Nintendo.
@Yorumi They need to ramp up production if they want to support handheld and console on their own. But thats why a hybrid makes so much sense, it would make it so much easier for Nintendo.
@Ryno - "Nintendo blew their load"
Except they didn't show Zelda U, so as far as I'm concerned not only didn't they blow their load, they barely made it to 2nd base. Threw out at 3rd trying to tag up on a short fly ball. And supposedly there's more to ACaF than they told us. And Starfox Zero needs a date, not just "holiday". And maybe surprise multiplayer. Or multiplayer in Super Mario Maker. And Devil's Third is invisible in the US.
Admittedly it would be all but impossible to make an ND worse than E3, but they should have enough to distract from the NX stuff. Just don't start it off by saying - "We aren't talking about NX today" Morons.
@Ninstarkof: Zombi U and Lego City Undercover were 3rd party exclusives that did not sell well. Need For Speed was the best console version and didn't sell well. Assassin's Creed games did not sell well. The argument that 3rd party games didn't sell well on the Wii U because they were old and/or broken is bunk.
@Einherjar how much time did you spend typing in outdated information? Right now we are in the era where the most powerful console is the best selling and consoles are called irrelevant because the pc is the most powerful. The wii u can't even run a DVD, something the ps2 can do. How do you think that worked out for Nintendo?
@Aromaiden Yes, but just because other companies have done it, doesn't mean we can just dismiss Nintendo's actions and still blindly feed them our money. It just baffles me that Nintendo doesn't understand that the best way to take the fans' money is to give them exactly what they want. It's really strange that they don't...
Hopefully nintendo doesn't mess this up...they definitely cannot afford another flopped console or they're going to be making more drastic choices. They like gimmicks, but I think for this system, they need to back away from them for the time being, create some really good launch games and get back the 3rd party support and bring a bigger audience to their system.
They need to create a more variety of games, racing, sports, simulation, rpg and action adventure...with not only E rated games, but T and M. They need a strong variety, and for sports, not just kiddie cartoonish sports, but the real thing...they also need to launch games that are not or will not be on the other consoles a year before them come to the NX...they definitely need a lot of hype for this system and a great launch library, with not a bunch of droughts of games (no one wants to buy a system and wait four months for just one game to come out). Nintendo needs to really shape up, or they're going to be at a loss like Atari and Sega.
@Yorumi to say it doesn't work isn't completely true - maybe it can - maybe the NX will do something crazy different that will give it wii like success? If a system sells well then third party support will come... Sometimes it's the other way around...
@rishisquid Of course not. I never meant that we should ignore or dismiss it, rather to take into account that it is a common occurrence, and not something that only happens to Nintendo.
@JLPick Yes and the way to get all those genres easily is to have 3rd party support, and the way to get that is to make a powerful console that is easy to develop for. If not, they will be limited in their library again...
@Ninstarkof Nah, Nintendo wouldn't ever sell their IPs. Most likely scenario is Nintendo going mobile-only as far as games go. That's where all of the Japanese developers are heading. AAA 3rd party game development is eventually going to become solely western. Nintendo and Square Enix will be the last of the Japanese to go.
If Nintendo does stop making games, they'll take their IPs down with them.
@Ryno they didn't sell well COMPARED to the playstation 3 and xbox 360 which had 80 million units sold. They didn't market the wii u right, it sold bad, and that's why they sold bad. FACT
@rjejr: Nintendo's load sure aint like the rest of us... Anyway, they better start taking about the NX and get a hold of the conversation because they opened a can of worms by mentioning it back when. You also don't need anymore multiplayer games, isn't Splatoon supposed to trickle out DLC for months?
This whole Wii U debacle has seriously damaged the level of trust I have for the Nintendo brand... Between being an early adopter that saw the console drop $50 in less than a year, to having to patiently wait for games that were promised long ago (we in the states are still waiting for Xenoblade and Yoshi)... to then getting snubbed at E3 this year (less than three years since the console launched). It's going to take a lot for me to ever consider being an early adopter of any nintendo initiative in the near future.
@Ninstarkof: Examples please of 3rd party games ever selling well on Nintendo consoles (not portables) from the N64 era on?
@IceClimbers not necessarily stop making IP's by choice, but if they ever go financially down the drain
@Aromaiden Ah I understand better know. I think what I'm trying to say is that all the companies have done it, but Nintendo is the only major developer doing it now. From watching MicroSony's presentations, I can tell they are really trying to put out quality games for their fans. From watching Nintendo's, well, let's just say they better be hard at work making games for the NX...
@IceClimbers I agree. I don't think Nintendo will ever let another company use their main IPs.
@Ryno @IceClimbers - "The next Direct probably isn't until August"
So how many more rumour and talking point articles do we have to repeat ourselves on until then? I'm not expecting one, just saying they need a distraction.
Oh, add to my earlier ND list the Wii U price drop. And Spaltoon will peak in Aug, then it's all about SMM, which is single player. And Starfox which is single player. And XCX which is single player. At least Yoshi is multiplayer, but all that news will be about the lack of available yarn Yoshi amiibo.
Nintendo is a big company, bad news shouldn't so overwhelmingly out number good news.
@KingofSaiyans - What iceclimbers said. And a Wii U price drop. Maybe a new bundle. Nothing new gamewise though. But they've had a whole bad motnh, tiem to get on top of things.
@rjejr: Along with a price drop, throw in some more memory then that piddly 32GB.
@Ryno there aren't any because the system either sold bad and or gave the inferior version. FACT
Yeah, one of the big problems I have with the Wii U's lineup is that it's lacking in large scale AAA games. Not just that there weren't a lot of third party games, but that Nintendo's own large scale exploration games like the Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy line and Metroid Prime are nowhere to be found on Wii U. If the NX doesn't deliver those kinds of experiences, I probably won't buy it. Unless they can come up with something truly innovative.
@rishisquid Powerful (relatively speaking - it would still be weak much like the PS4 is) hardware that's easy to develop for won't magically make 3rd party developers start developing for it. They can still ignore it, and they have good reason to.
@Ninstarkof It's not just the Wii U. It's been the case since the N64. Soul Calibur II is one of the major exceptions - it sold well because it had Link in it.
If Nintendo does go financially down the drain, I still think they'd rather take their IPs down with them than sell them off.
@rjejr Sounds like a game-specific Direct could do them some good. Perhaps it's time to announce the next main series Pokemon game? That announcement should be coming at some point within the next couple months.
@Ryno let's take it from the top, pal. I'm saying Nintendo needs to make a powerful system with no gimmicks and they can be 3 rd party king, and you're saying they have no hope for that just because of failed attempts in the past
@KingofSaiyans - Oh, and the regular size New 3DS and a boatload of faceplates in the US. Or a New 2DS. There's always something.
1. The power argument is annoying. I am very pleased with the Wii U's visual output. Could care less how it measures up to other consoles in terms of "power". Big N not alone among Japanese manufacturers here. For years, Lexus cars had low horsepower compared to other cars in there class . . . but remained outstanding vehicles.
2. Don't rush the NX for 2016 or even 2017. Take your time, Big N, get some third party game makers actually making some solid launch titles. You're making a killing with the Amiibo anyway . . . seriously, it's like printing money.
3. $199 as a price point? More enticing? Sure! Realistic? Yeah . . . not really. Rather pay the extra 100 to have something built well, that is state of the art, and has no red ring of death.
@rishisquid Let's not forget that Nintendo's innovation in the last 10 years or so has amounted to a controller that you have to wave around and doesn't always work and the amazing ability to look at a map or inventory without pressing a button first. Admittedly I enjoyed the latter in ZombiU but those experiences are few and far between. Also it was due to wii motes that I didn't even play Skyward Sword. Mainly because I couldn't face using them any longer and was less than impressed when they tried to force them on me on the Wii U.
@bluedogrulez I think the power argument is more to do with 3rd parties as apposed to graphics. If it had comparable specs and architecture to it's rivals there would be no reason for them not to release their games on it as development would be very easy and much cheaper taking away most of the risk. Surely more games is better for everyone?
@rjejr And then they delay Star Fox to 2016 to make room for more Smash focus
@IceClimbers in order to get 3rd party in the beginning of the cconsole generation, you must have powerful hardware, easy hardware to develop for and a decent controller. After that, it's all about the sales
It's Nintendo speak again: They build a car without wheels and tell their fans, "Look! You can drive our without the distraction of movement!! Focus on the essentials!! Here's a figurine to unlock extra lights on the dashboard!! Innovation!!!"
Nintendo is over. This is the last nail. The thing isn't even prototyped and they've already killed it by putting the WiiU 'weak hardware' stamp on it.
But hey, they'd always have in the figurine business.
@Ninstarkof: Yes, I am saying that 3rd parties know their games will not sell well on Nintendo consoles. I hope the NX is as powerful as the PS4 so everyone will see that 3rd Parties are not going to be coming rushing back to Nintendo.
@IceClimbers 3rd parties want to develop for the standard of the time. Yes, even if it meets that standard they can dismiss it, but there's not even a chance of development if it doesn't.
http://wiiudaily.com/2014/05/wii-u-is-the-most-energy-efficient-next-gen-console/ Hello, I am a newbie here, but an alert, non negative yet can be critical N1ntendodo. I wish to present a whole side of the power race that many have forgotten/not learnt. The link above shows that Nintendo is the first to innovate power efficiency in today's gaming industry and sadly not enough people and devs are encouraging this. They have their minds stuck on power, power, POWER when they could learn to innovate in their games and hardware much performance with less power. The NX may very well be the next green console if it follows the pattern here with the Wii and Wii U. Don't you want to see PS4 like performance in this way? Do you want to how less power is needed to perform all a PS4 or even the future PS5 can do? All we have to do is get many to see the missed potential here and change the course. The gaming industry needs to learn to do more with less. Otherwise, we may have the EPA starting to hound at it.
Some typos here and there, but you should get my point.
@Aromaiden Estimated close to $10 Billion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_(franchise)
@Sceptic Oh honey. No need to jump to conclusions, especially when its based solely on a rumor from a "reliable" source.
@bluedogrulez I don't think the argument is whether or not less powerful things are good or not, it is whether a less powerful console in today's market can succeed. I personally like the Wii U, I think it's a good console, but despite what I think of it, it just isn't successful.
I honestly hope they don't go this route. Nintendo has a nasty habit of not seeing their innovations realized to their fullest potential. I honestly would have preferred if they had foregone the Wii U gamepad in favor of a more powerful console that had the Wii remote and Nunchuk/ classic controller as an input device with 3DS connectivity.
Honestly, I could care less about how much power Nintendo brings to the table. They could release a system with 16-bit graphics and I would still buy it. There's more to a game than just fancy graphics.
@Ryno 1: NX will obviously be more powerful than the playstation 4, its next gen 2: id 3rd parties don't come back, it's because of a gimmicky controller and a cheap processor that makes it tough for developers to make games for the system. FACT
I really don't understand the bash. I love my Wii U - I went through the COMPLETE list of XBO and Ps4 games and saw maybe 3 I'd be willing to buy. Those POWER houses offer me nothing. I'm completely not interested but I'm not upset either when someone does not to play "The Order" or whatever else. What I DON'T get is why they aer SOOOOO offended and need to "rehabilitate me" for liking Nintendo.
@jakysnakydx Amazing. I'm not surprised though, considering Mario is one of the, if not the most well known and popular video game franchises to ever exist.
This article twists the power argument all over the place, and seems to make a supporting case for yet another under-powered gimmick machine.
Let's be clear here, if Nintendo is banking on another gimmick machine, they are failing from the start. The new "gimmick" the industry is looking forward to has to do with VR and stuff like Hololens, largely because they seem less like gimmicks and more like industry evolution. But after the Wii era ended, and the Wii U and Kinect 2 bombed, it's become crystal clear that consumers are not interested in gimmicks.
The power of the NX is going to be important, because if it falls behind like the Wii U and Wii and cannot handle modern game engines easily or smoothly, they are going to be starting from a losing position. This tells third parties that, not only do they have to contend with a core fanbase with a spiteful and adversarial history towards them, but they'll have to do extra work for almost certainly guaranteed smaller sales for the "privilege" of putting their game on a Nintendo system.
Frankly, as I've noted, this machine might have a chance if it is the integrated platform, and July sees them release the portable half early and separately, while they release the base unit later, maybe November or February 2017. But there is ample evidence that the Wii and DS were little more than fads and flukes, particularly when we realize that the Wii U and 3DS are actually continuing Nintendo's decades-long downward trend and are actually selling below GC and GBA numbers.
Nintendo is fighting against an industry where the vast majority of people are just waiting on them to finally just go third party. They are fighting against a perception of gimmicky consoles. They are fighting against a perception of irrelevance. Underpowering the hardware in the NX, even a little, could have staggering repercussions. Thus far, it there is already more negativity towards NX than there was against Wii U--and we all saw how well that system performed.
@macmilk Indeed. I bought the Wii day one and DS day one. PLayed it to death. When it came time for the U and 3DS I was ready to upgrade because I had more than played my money's worth on the older systems. But with the NX I will have to wait because I don't believe I've played out the Wii U like I did the past systems before it.
@FJOJR "innovations" is what kills Nintendo. "innovatons" are expensive and make Nintendo skim on the hardware. FACT
@Peek-a-boo I absolutely agree. If they screw up they can kiss any respect or credibility in the industry they have left good bye. I will abandon them if they fail on their next console.
It is. I couldn't find it but a forbes articles I commonly reference places Nintendo at a net worth greater than ALL of Sony (this is 2015). People here like to hate on Nintendo (let alone other sites) but they are actually doing very well. Then again we live in a generation of people who wish to deny truth in favor of opinion but I digress.
@Ninstarkof Yes, it's about the sales. When those 3rd parties realize their games aren't selling on Nintendo because Nintendo fans don't buy 3rd party games and everyone else would rather have them on Xbox/PlayStation/PC, they'll drop the console faster than you can say "Sega".
If the NX is a normal console, and it is not as powerful as the PS4, I will not buy it. I will not support stupidity like nintendo seems to be endorsing.
@carlos82 Yes and their hardware "innovations" usually hold back their software in one way or another. Their added cost to the console causes it to be filled with less powerful parts to keep the same cost. Also, using Skyward Sword as an example, the hardware really influenced the software too much.
@macmilk Same here. the ONLY thing that could get me to buy their next system is a new metroid prime. And that would be after I am assured that 3rd parties support it.
Of course power isn't the end all be all of systems. But if the NX is a console and isn't as powerful as a PS4 that presents several problems,
1) Why even come out with it? If it's not significantly more powerful than the Wii U then there is no reason to release it? Not to mention consumers won't be willing to shell out $199+ for a system that is, as far as hardware specs, the same as a Wii U.
2) It won't have longevity. As games become more and more elaborate, more power is needed. The PS4 and Xbox One are already under powered as is, so there is no chance of this gen lasting as long as the last one did. If Nintendo's console isn't even as strong as a PS4 and launches in 2016, the possible lifetime of the console is already reduced and that feeds into the first point.
3) Once again, no third party support. This has already been dicussed to death but Nintendo can't survive another generation like this one was with the Wii U. The droughts were just to long and too severe. And yes, I understand most consumers don't buy Watch Dogs and CoD when they are released on the Wii U but I'm not only talking about those. When I say third party CoD and those do fall in there, but it also includes studios like Atlus, Square Enix, Capcom, Bethesda, etc. People DO buy titles like Shin Megami Tensei, Street Fighter, and Etrian Odyssey on Nintendo platforms. In the case of EO and SMT, they aren't available anywhere else but I digress. One of the reasons the PS4 was successful is because people knew they could get their nippon fix on the console, the knew that games like Persona, Disgaea, and Final Fantasy were coming to the system. While Japanese games are relatively niche in the West, there is still a market for them and Nintendo has done a good job of catering to that market with the 3DS. Games like Etrian Odyssey will always be mobile titles, but Nintendo can still work with those Japanese studios to bring their games to the West on the NX. But f the console is underpowered Nintendo is effectively cutting off what devs can possibly do with the console and that is never a good thing.
I'm just worried is all, I don't want to see another generation like this last one. Of course, Nintendo could indeed market it as a secondary console but that just seems like their setting their sights too low. As long as Sony keeps making good systems with good games I'll buy that system and that applies to Nintendo. But I waiting until the holiday of last year to buy a Wii U as the value just wasn't there. Nintendo can't succeed with a strategy of drip feeding their customers.
@jakysnakydx we don't want to change you, but show you your ignorance. Sorry, but people like powerful consoles, and you are missing out on them. You would be surprised to see what they can do. FACT
I like Nintendo's games too and not care much about graphics, BUT the current practices outside of Nintendo's have yet to show this capability.
Anywho, I think there is another side of what Nintendo could very well truly be targeting. Did anybody forget the mobile market and Nintendo's strategy of mobile to console? They are targeting the very thing that overtook console gaming in popularity. Utilizing those unique strengths and brining many to our consoles is what we are going for. Trading power for the masses is what they are doing. Should it succeed, tastes in the gaming industry will shift in the long run. Power usage would not be the hot topic anymore.
Hybrid console still a possibility at this point. Trading power for that is fine too.
@IceClimbers
If Nintendo does go down the drain, they will be selling off those franchises. Yes, Nintendo is notoriously arrogant and protective, but they aren't invincible. They would have to answer to huge numbers of investors who could tie the company up in courts for ages for failing to make up losses--and that includes selling off IPs. If worse comes to worse, either Nintendo will sell them off--or they will be divided up by someone else, like a bank or government entity in order to have the money to clean up the pieces.
The only thing Nintendo could do is suddenly kill their copyrights and trademarks as some kind of bitter spite, but if Nintendo fell to the Atari level, franchises would indeed be sold off. Their arrogance and stubbornness would only go so far.
This idea that "they'd never sell" is just as ridiculous as the belief that they can "fail for decades and be just fine." No, those are both staggeringly incorrect concepts.
@IceClimbers exactly. And if they follow the other steps into getting 3rd party suppprt, the system will obviously sell well and 3rd party will be there to stay. FACT
@N1ntendodo why have a hybrid console when portables are dying? The 3ds may be the last portable a lot of people buy, or at least keep
@Kaze_Memaryu
One can only call developers "lazy" by clinging to deliberate ignorance of all that goes into game design.
@Vrael you are one of the only people I see in this comment section with common sence.
deflates like a balloon
It's not really necessary, but it is very necessary...power is a must for Nintendo at this point.
WiiU 3rd party launch titles were old news by the time they were released. Assassin's Creed was released close to the other versions, but it was an inferior version (I bought it anyway...). ZombieU got a really bad review the day before launch. Need for Speed was the best version...but everybody who wanted it already played it on other systems. I had already played Batman, Ninja gaiden, Call of Duty etc etc.
@IceClimbers what are you talking about? A bunch of Nintendo fans buy 3rd party games, but on a different console. They don't buy then on Nintendo consoles because pc or playstation will give them the definitive version. All Nintendo has to do is give the definitive console experience and they will come out on top. FACT
Absolutely Ninstarkof. I buy all the systems. But I would favor Nintendo over the others if their version was at least equal. Also, it can't be released months after the other versions.
@Ninstarkof Because it's the next innovation we have yet to see from the gaming industry. Smart phones, 3DS... They are portable for a reason. Also, showing a single unit than two separate units like the PS4 and Vita is something to behold. One game only, yet can played at home or on the go.
@Quorthon They'd kill their copyrights and trademarks out of Japanese pride. Almost like committing seppuku. Besides, I think they'd leave the industry before it ever got to that point anyways.
@Ninstarkof Except the system wouldn't sell well. There's absolutely no reason for people to switch to Nintendo for 3rd party games when they can get those on the other platforms, which are already established. It would once again come down to Nintendo's own games, which aren't enough.
Besides, 3rd parties want SOFTWARE SALES. Those are impossible to achieve on Nintendo's home consoles without Nintendo's IPs being involved. Hyrule Warriors? That sold well because it had Zelda attached to it.
Nintendo fans who own a Wii U and buy 3rd party games on another system are a very small minority. Most outright ignore 3rd party games. This has been proven over time.
Power on the console matters as much to me these days as the amount of power under the hood of my car. In both cases, what really matters is whether or not they will get me where I want to go and not breakdown before I can replace them.
Power is important to attract third party support. HOWEVER, it doesn't need to be the MOST powerful. Nintendo's NX needs to be on par with current gen and easy for devs to carry their games across to OR the NX needs to be a blanket success (like the Wii) where the sheer user base (customer base) simply outweighs the combined customer base of the other consoles. That way, a third party will more likely devote it's attention to an NX only game because of all those wallets. Otherwise, it is simply a no brainer for a company to work out how to make the most money and it's not to devote resources on new ip or a console with the lowest market share and putting it on other consoles would require yet more work.
I feel like Nintendo are like England in the Eurozone.
@IceClimbers
I strongly disagree. Nintendo is just another corporation.
If Nintendo collapsed, they wouldn't be allowed to kill their copyrights and trademarks--they'd be sued into oblivion for even attempting it by their investors and debtors and it would only make such a situation worse. It's grossly, immeasurably unrealistic. Have you ever heard of a company doing that? Ever? Because it's not going to happen.
Either they'd sell them off, their buyer would sell some off, or their debtors would sell them off to recover debts. Sorry man, but the very idea is absurdly ridiculous. At the end of the day, they are just another corporation like any other.
@Aromaiden "Sega will never go 3rd party, there at the top of their game!"
@Quorthon Why are we discussing one of the most wealthiest companes in the world going under? Seriously...why is this even a discussion?
@Ninstarkof
You're playing with words. When anyone says "Nintendo fans don't buy third party games," they are obviously indicating it about Nintendo consoles. Anyone else, using the term "Nintendo fans" is meaningless. The number of Nintendo fans that actually support 3rd parties on the hardware is clearly, obviously, notably, painstakingly small.
@GrailUK
They are not one of the wealthiest companies in the world. Wealthy, yes, one of the wealthiest? Hardly. And Nintendo going under is a very real possibility. Why not talk about it?
@Ninstarkof What does that have to do with this?
@Quorthon Good point. I think they'd definitely leave or close their doors before it ever came to that point though.
@Darknyht
How much you personally care about hardware in the console doesn't matter. Surely you recognize that. That power under the hood matters for getting third parties on board and being competitive.
@GrailUK It is a possibility for any company, no matter how wealthy, for them to go under. It one of the main risks a company takes.
Although I do feel people are taking the rumor far to serious.
@Quorthon if Ninteno makes a con sole where people can get the definitive version of all their favorite games, then all the Nintendo fans who love 3rd party will but them for a Nintendo console. Please stop replying when you don't know what you're talking about
@IceClimbers
"If Nintendo does go financially down the drain, I still think they'd rather take their IPs down with them than sell them off."
I'm literally thinking about this almost all the time, but as @Quorthon elaborated on can they be allowed to do such a thing?
Then again, sometimes I think, "What if Nintendo refuses to announce the mystery buyer that brought them or something...?" XD
Not that I'm hoping Nintendo DOES go under, heck no!
@IceClimbers
Those franchises would still end up somewhere. One way or another, someone would own them. There's money to be made. If Nintendo was closing their doors, that's a sign that the money is gone. Those executives and investors would want their money back and to take advantage. If the company was really closing their doors, why would they even care where the franchises go?
They won't. They'll care about closing those doors with money in their pockets.
No company is invincible or immortal. Mistakes can still sink a company, and Nintendo has generations worth of mistakes stacking up for them, rather like Sega did. In almost every way, their stance in the industry mirrors Sega and Atari before they stopped making hardware--again, with some exception.
They would go third party first, bankrupt second, sell off assets third. There is no reason at all to think Nintendo would behave any magically different manner than any other company.
@Ryno Rayman Legends. What platform had the best version? What platform sold best?
Here's a question. If the original Wii released with the power of the 360 or PS3, but cost equivalently more, would it have sold better, and would it have received more/less third party support?
@VeeFlamesNL
Nintendo could choose not to announce who may buy or merge with them, but it's not like that would remain secret for long. Eventually, we'd be seeing that Mario game coming out with a new logo on the cover. Be it Microsoft, Sony, Disney, or whatever.
Oooo... Nintendoomed on the commentary section.
Certainly a corporation that has stood around for over hundred years and is making profit even now and who has investors reinstating the board with REALLY high acceptance numbers and who owns most of it's own shares and recently has had over 160% rise in those said shares... that company is without a doubt.
NINTENDOOMED!
edit: Oh I voted on to reinstate all of them by the way.
@Quorthon There's evidence of this laziness en masse, so don't even bother trying to say otherwise.
@Ninstarkof
There's absolutely no guarantee that Nintendo fans would buy the definitive version of any third party game. Hell, we have evidence that the exact opposite is true, as Nintendo fans did get definitive editions of Deus Ex, Arkham City, and Ninja Gaiden 3 to name a few. These didn't garner better sales than non-definitive versions from other platforms.
@Quorthon True enough. Disney would probably be the one to buy them.
@Kaze-Memaryu That's called publishers imposing deadlines that developers need to meet. It's unfortunate, but that's business.
Those definitive versions were all very late to the game. They'd already sold millions of copies on other systems.
@Kaze_Memaryu
By all means, supply the evidence. And since you made this statement targeting a clear majority of developers, you will need to provide evidence to support this case.
Otherwise, this sounds like the typical Nintendo fan attack against anyone making video games who isn't "Nintendo."
You should also properly support your argument by looking at equivalent titles from Nintendo for this to properly define what is "developer laziness," and not just an angry Nintendo fan hating 3rd parties.
@Quorthonbsome the people who bought the wii u versions of those games either thought they were gonna be the definitive version or only buy Nintendo games
@Quorthon
"Nintendo has generations worth of mistakes stacking up for them"
Wait what now? Generations worth of mistakes?
And those are... Wii U and Wii? 3DS and DS?
Wasn't Wii like... metaphorically printing cash and aren't DS and Wii both in the topend of sellers of their respective markets all time?
And 3ds has managed to sell 50 million units in the mobile gaming age.
Damn those 50 million selling mistakes.
@IceClimbers I think Nintendo and Disney would do wonders together.
We also passed my comment goal on this article.
@Timppus Right on the nose! So long as they can keep investors happy with profits from the NX, like how Wii U is getting now AND with the theme park idea and the DeNA partnership, no force on earth dare to defy those results.
@Timppis
Nintendo does not own most of their shares. Not even close.
That is from this very site. https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/01/nintendo_confirms_plans_to_acquire_up_to_ten_million_of_its_own_shares
It's also highly debatable that Nintendo is actually profitable now. Several of their earnings reports weighed very heavily on favorable exchange rates or other financial tricks, not necessarily "selling better" or "making more money." Keep in mind, at one point, they slashed some salaries, and they have routinely stated that they cannot drop the price of the Wii U or it would impact their income. That is a very fine line.
Just because a company has been around a long time doesn't mean they can't fail or be sold off. Such a statement is the height of making a fallacy.
On the off chance Nintendo might paying attention to this, I also want the NX to use persistent accounts that aren't tied to the hardware. They've kneecapped themselves left and right when it comes to the digital realm.
@Aromaiden Poor Universal though. They had a deal with Marvel at one point - bought by Disney. Then they get a deal with Nintendo - (potentially) bought by Disney.
@Quorthon I think a good example of that is Capcom. They were damn near broke in Sept. 2013. Monster Hunter 4 and 4 Ultimate are why Capcom is still around.
@Aromaiden Poor Universal though. They had a deal with Marvel at one point - bought by Disney. Then they get a deal with Nintendo - (potentially) bought by Disney.
@Quorthon I think a good example of that is Capcom. They were damn near broke in Sept. 2013. Monster Hunter 4 and 4 Ultimate are why Capcom is still around.
Edit: A better example is Hudson Soft. They went bankrupt, and were then bought by Konami. If only Konami would do more with those IPs (coughBombermancough)
@Timppis
I'm not sure I even have the time to address such a level of ignorance. But I will note that the 3DS selling 50 million sounds good, right up until you realize it's the worst selling Nintendo portable, and fell not just below DS numbers (hovering around 1/3 of them), but below GBA sales--which were well below Game Boy/GBC sales.
I am not the only person here to point this out, but the Wii and DS were flukes. Statistical anomalies. Nintendo's hardware has been dropping in sales and market share since the NES and Game Boy, and the Wii U and 3DS fell to below the levels of the GC and GBA. The downward trend continues.
The over-reliance on gimmicks has driven off most consumers and the failure to make generation-equivalent hardware has helped drive off third parties. They have a lengthy series of mistakes before and now after their lucky money-printing fluke. And while we may find good in the Wii and DS, we need to remember that Nintendo screwed up something hugely in that they were totally unable to maintain the success of those two platforms.
@Ninstarkof
I don't even think you know what your point is at this point.
@Quorthon I wonder if Nintendo actually managed to increase its control over its shares, considering that they announced their plans to do so since the beginning of the year.
Nintendo can strike a balance with its audience because each generation some of its best selling games are not rated M as is the case on other consoles. Call it a "kiddy console" if you will, but there's an audience of parents and children along with adult fans that don't sound like a lot of people in these comments. Nintendo knows that audience and can reach them without the "power" being as competitive as can be.
XBox One has to fight hard against Sony to get it's sales even though it's the second half of the equation for the multiplat business. Nintendo is keen not to compete for the best looking multiplat games. And it would have to have the best in order to make worthwhile gains in that competitive market. NOT NECESSARY, NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!! They have other strengths to be profitable doing something different than the competition.
Third parties like EA promised to follow Wii U, they didn't. I don't think Nintendo is gonna shower EA with money and the exact console specs it wants so to run Frostbite Engine and put little effort into ports. Ubisoft and Activision are on good terms with Nintendo they just need them to sell a console to their base. With 10 million Wii Us and 50 million 3DSs sold, Nintendo didn't even reach their whole base. That will be commitment of NX, to bring its fractured base to one system. They don't need the PS4's power to do so. Those third parties will then surely commit something, maybe not everything (who even gets everything these days), but more than they do now once they manage to do it.
@Quorthon I'd argue that the handheld trend was a sharp decline with the GBC and VB (I think it's dishonest to combine the GBC sales with the GB, considering Nintendo addresses them as separate platforms), then an upwards trend with the GBA and DS, and now another decline with the 3DS due to the market itself shrinking.
@IceClimbers
I think Capcom may still be hovering around a potential failure point, as they were one of the companies to announce a deliberate focus on mobile games--along with Konami, Sega, and Square-Enix. The company announced last year that they were open for a merger or a sale, and it may well be only a matter of time. Capcom may only need one or two gross missteps to push the company out of their independence.
@Quorthon
Pardon my english. What I meant that Nintendo owns more shares of itself than anyone else does. I fully acknowledge my mistake there. And that Graph doesn't even count the actual buy-ins they did later on last year.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/information/index.html
This page from Nintendo themselves shows the current status, excluding itself from the major shareholders list as mentioned in the page.
And you might make any sort of financial statements, but the fact is that even with the massive buy-in of their stock and rising their employee amount with over 200 people they still went on the black.
They are on the black and still investing and growing. Those are good signs. If they were going down they wouldn't be making completely new facilities etc.
@Quorthon You seem to get drunk on your own sorry negativity and just start slinging nonsense don't you. Can't believe you've cited Deus Ex again, the game that released at full price on the Wii U after it was available on Steam for 3 quid. Why would anyone buy the Wii U version under those circumstances?
And if Nintendo goes bust, how could they be sued exactly?
Frankly I don't care about any of that. As long as the product works well and has little to no problems and I can enjoy it for years before it finally starts having problems that's all I care about. Nintendo hand helds and consoles have never disappointed me yet in all the ways that matter.
If I had £1 for every post in a Nintendo Life NX discussion article, I'd be a millionaire by the time Nintendo properly reveals what the console is
@IceClimbers
It's debatable to address GB and GBC as separate, and I can see why Nintendo would for marketing purposes. At the end of the day, though, they are quite literally identical hardware, but one has very limited color added. They are the same thing. The hardware is what matters here, not the marketing.
It can also be argued that the only reason the GBC (alone) had lower sales than GBA was due to it's very obvious stop-gap status as it came out only about a year and a half before the GBA. That is very much the definition of a stop-gap or revision. Calling the GBC a different platform is like calling the New Nintendo 3DS a different platform. They aren't.
@Quorthon
"I'm not sure I even have the time to address such a level of ignorance."
Meaning you got squat.
"But I will note that the 3DS selling 50 million sounds good, right up until you realize it's the worst selling Nintendo portable"
And the first portable to compete with mobile gaming as it is today.
"I am not the only person here to point this out, but the Wii and DS were flukes."
Yes... Flukes... It's nice to see such a fantastic overview and insight to what brought console gaming and portable gaming to A LOT of new people.
But yeah, flukes. Im not the only who said so. So it must be true.
It's easy to maintain that attitude since it means you don't have to actually have any basis on your claims. Not with the growing competition, mobile gaming, changing infrastructure. No, I am right and thus I just pour down the burden of proof to anyone else. I say magic word fluke.
@Grumblevolcano Here, I just gave you an extra one.
@IceClimbers - main series Pokemon game
Shouldn't they release Mystery Dungeon first? I know that isn't the main series, but don't you think they'll try and promote it as a big deal? Wouldn't they worry about Z, Gray or whatever cannibalizing sales? Pokemon is my kids thing, not mine, and neither wants Mystery Dungeon, but I can see them buying it since I don't see a lot of other games on 3DS they would be interested in. They're very finicky gamers.
Super Nintendo 2!!! Serious nintendo just need to go back to their roots with the name and the gates will flood open , wii u doesnt sound like something you want to buy in the first place , the trick is in the marketing and hype of the brand name, it needs to sound like its an evolution of the brand,everybody knows the snes,everybody would want a snes 2 , the hype would be strong and tons of devs will want to jump in on the system simply out of the iconic value of the snes name and logo. Nintendos problem is they have accepted defeat already without a fight but they have all the best cards its just the ones holding them are too scared to put them all down on the table against the big hitters, its obvious nintendo have bottled it under pressure by going down the casual family friendly route as an excuse ,except mobile already has that base covered and now nintendo are exposed out in the open with no place to go and no more places to hide
@Quorthon Ok, that's a good point. On Capcom, yeah I could see them being bought out. Most likely by Sony. If they go bankrupt, I'd hope Nintendo picks up Mega Man at the very least.
@Timppis Quorthon really does look like the guy Scarecrow in Arkham Knight will say to and succeed... "You will bring death to all who follow."
@Timppis
Being in the black has it's caveats. Even Iwata has addressed this several times, and promised to be back in "Nintendo-like profits" by the fiscal year ending March 2017.
According to the link you provided, if I'm reading this correctly, Nintendo only owns 16% of their shares, as noted by "*The Company owns 23,297,005 treasury shares, which are excluded from the major shareholders above."
And that is only 16% of the chart.
@Grumblevolcano - shhhh, you're going to give the fanboys a heart attack.
Wouldn't surprise me though. Last Dec during some game awards show the Starfox guy guaranteed it would release before Zelda U, and ever since they announced no Zelda U in 2015 I've been waiting for the inevitable Starfox delay. though no multiplayer and those graphics maybe they can get it out in Nov. It looks like a N64 port w/ Gamepad controls tacked on.
I'm not feeling good about this at all. They better wow me or else I'm not buying it. I'm still trying to find some ice for my Wii U burn.
@IceClimbers
I don't know about Sony, because of their own financial woes, but yeah, I would not be surprised to see Capcom bought out at some point this generation.
Oh, you didn't ask, but there are potentially three other places besides Disney that might gobble up Nintendo, if it came down to it: Google, Amazon, or Apple.
My bet would be Apple. I think if Apple seriously wanted to get back into gaming, that'd be the way they'd do it.
Although, I've read recently that Amazon is actually a company with surprisingly serious financial problems.
@BinaryFragger
It was probably for marketing purposes then.
@Timppis
I deliver endless basis and evidence for my claims, which is part of why my posts are so lengthy. But, you have to be smart enough to pay attention.
My point about not being the only person to point out the gradual decline was not to make it right--it was because it's been made readily available on this site numerous times. It's not hard to find the evidence or follow it.
Oh well. One can't teach someone to hear who is adamant to keep his ears plugged.
@IceClimbers 50mil 3ds consoles sold but the problem is hardly any support and software, in the west we have about 10 physical releases to look forward too in a year, more than half of those might not be of personal interest , most are now aimed solely at young players. Go back to ds and even gba there were hundreds of games and still quite a few releases even torwards the end of lifespan , we now have digital download there is no excuse for lack of content its like nintendo are trying to slowly finish the system but it makes no sense given they just released a new 3ds.
@Quorthon if you cant see my point, it proves you don't want to listen and stat in denial. Good luck with that mind set in 2017. Lol
Similar to what I wrote on my blog about what i think about the NX http://gaymernintendo.com/2015/07/06/nx/
@BinaryFragger I meant in marketing (hence why games like Link's Awakening DX are listed as Game Boy Color games rather than Game Boy games). You're correct on sales numbers though.
@rjejr Eh, I don't think they'd be worried too much. The Mystery Dungeon games are established enough to stand on their own, even with the brand damage caused by Gates to Infinity (which had no chance after the very highly-regarded Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky). I don't expect Z or whatever to launch until next spring anyways. They'll probably announce it sometime this year, and then keep hype up with new Mega Evolution announcements, while advertising Mystery Dungeon on the side.
@Quorthon. Forgot about Sony's financial woes. Yeah, Apple was who I had in mind as a potential buyer other than Disney. Disney would be my first guess though. Some guy from Disney Interactive even joked about Disney buying Nintendo.
I am afraid the NX will be Nintendo's goodbye to the home console market. It screams of failure so far. If there's one thing we've learned, it is without 3rd party support, the system will fail. With so much weaker "raw power" 3rd party support will not be there. I thought Nintendo had realized that by now.
Oh well... no one lives forever.
Firstly power - I'd cite 3ds vs Vita.... Clearly power didn't win this battle? The PSVita is the biggest failure since the VB surely and no one seems to attack Sony for this...
Secondly - chasing fads? The wii fad was huge and sold like more than any other console right? So surely Nintendo would look to recreate? To say they haven't innovated in ten years is harsh but what have the others done? I admit I don't play on my wii u as much as I thought I would but I NEVER play on my PS3 or Xbox 360 ... And I haven't gone next gen yet because I can't see the point personally. I am a fanboy and I'll admit it but all this hate on here just isn't healthy - if you all want it to fail - chances are it will. Nintendo ain't going anywhere for a long time - their assets are huge and they could survive in them for a while ... If the NX changes the game again like the wii then it's all good - if it's just going to turn into a machine exactly like the ps4 and Xbone then I'm not interested . Exclusives barely exist anymore outside Nintendo - I want my Mario and my zelda so I'll come here - for anything else I'll get another console - this isn't a three way race anymore - Sony has won - but Nintendo can live beside them as the only place I'm getting my ninty fix... The only reasons I'd get a next gen ATM is for the rare retro collection which consists of games I played on my spectrum and my Nintendo consoles....that's just me but lets give them another chance because why not?! if you don't want an NX don't buy one - miss out on the future of Nintendo gaming - your loss
@STAGGLY ^The peeps don't want the NX to fail, but most of them feel it is inevitable if this rumor is true, and if nothing earth shattering is added to it. They aren't arguing about whether it will be good or not, they are arguing whether it will be successful or not.
A Nintendo console used to be hardware for playing games on. Now the games take second place to the console.
The Wii was all about the controller and games that fitted around the controller.
The Wii U is about the Gamepad and how games can be developed to play on it.
Let's hope the nx goes back to basics.
Raw power isn't essential, what is essential is fun. I hope the NX, whether it's a handheld or QoL product, delivers something fun and innovative.
Power isn't everything. If you want to attract third party guys, make the system really easy to code for. The problem with Wii u was that the gamepad diverted resources away from making a competent port. It's likely that Ps4 and XB1 are internally similar so that's why they get the EA stuff.
Innovate with the software, not the hardware
I'm thinking that this will be a tide over console to finish the generation of Ps4 that way they aren't stuck in the middle again.
@mjc0961 They still make those cards.
Good article. Sums up the problems Nintendo face. A hybrid of some kind is the most obvious way to go. They will struggle against to get third-party support as historically a lot of Nintendo fans ignore third-party games (I'm not talking about ports on Wii U either, I'm talking about high quality exclusives on N64, Cube and Wii). Because of that Nintendo need to be able to concentrate all their resources on one platform to keep the quantity of software at a respectable level.
They seem scared of genuinely competing with Sony and MS though so I'm not hopeful of a powerful console.
@Mona-Reggie
The reliance on gimmicks to sell hardware suggests to me they know their software isn't that innovative anymore so they hide behind novelty controllers.
The problem is the higher ups of Nintendo are too busy on their high horse to provide or pay attention to what gamers want. So I need to pay another 200 for a system that still is inferior and could be gimmickie, not looking positive to me. Though thanks for leaving hanging the ones who paid 300 for Wii U with the lack of game content, but plenty of Aiimbos. They are really going to have to have an incredible line up to get me interested and not just a handful of games.
I'm starting think the Wii U is going to be rather different to what a lot of us imagine it might be
@Toadthefox Plenty of amiibos? Where?
So people think the only way a Nintendo console can survive if it can also play assassins creed and batman et al? And this is only possible with power. And you think people will buy one to play the majority of the games they can play on their ps4 and Xbone? That's not going to happen...it's too late surely? The only way to sell to the hardened Microsoft and Sony peeps is to get an exclusive - surely no one will buy an NX to play anything other than Nintendo titles as the main reason?! I just don't understand his third party thing - it's not going to change anything now...surely?!
Always amusing when you know who is drawn to topics like this like flies to.... you know what.
I think I was played out from the last article. It's interesting how these talking point articles give us a round 2, though.
Here it goes — nah.
The Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2, but it's value (with a DVD player) made it a much better option for most people. The Dreamcast was at least as powerful as the Gamecube. Power won't make a system.
Now, from all I've read, and I've been reading plenty of rumours about NX, there is no concrete evidence about the release date, or that when they said "won't compete with PS4", that they mean It will be out of PS4's league.
There's not even evidence that the NX simply attaches to the Wii U.
Now, to add to the hype:
http://www.williaint.com/nx.swf
@STAGGLY It's simple: Only first party games = only some Nintendo fans buy, 3rd party support = Nintendo fans and other gamers buy the thing. Imagine if the only things you couldn't play on your Nintendo system were a few MicroSony exclusives. Being able to play both Nintendo games and all 3rd party games > Just Nintendo games.
NX will be compatible with (multiple) Wii U gamepads - which will eventually come up for sale individually. . . Back catalogue is vital here so this is the way it has to be.
Also, what is the main criticism of any New System launch? A lack of games... Nintendo can see this - they have the money to avoid this so they will release a never-before-seen line up of Launch Titles. . .Also, another game changer would be compatibility with 4K displays - which for those of you who haven't seen them in action .. are Eye poppingly incredible!
Also, what do Sony and Microsoft do eventually? - Why, they have to make Slim versions of their big ugly consoles..........Can Nintendo pull of an early win here with a small perfectly formed box?
You have to stop using the Wii as the example. Is the same mistake Nintendo is doing and it's the one mistake that will run this company into the ground. The Wii had sooo many factors going for it and only worked at that moment in time. And even saying it worked just means "it sold consoles". Most people didn't buy many games and it died a horrible horrible death at the end of its cycle. We really need to embrace the fact that Nintendo was very lucky with the Wii and that that point in time where the could convince families to buy a console like that are gone. Gaming is mainstream now. Daddy is 40 and grew up on video games. He wants to play GTA. He buys a PS4 for the family. And the hardcore fans who are left are getting less and less. Power is not important, it's vital. Nintendo can start it's experiments if the fulfil the minimum requirements and those are set by Sony and MS (for now...mainly by Sony...). There is no more way around this.
Really good article @ThomasBW84!
I guess I'm not opposed to Nintendo filling the "budget" gaming niche, as long as they continue to produce quality games. I didn't realise that's kind of the place they are at now, but thinking about the cost of games being quite a bit cheaper than PS4 and Xbone, that seems about right. Ultimately, it's about the games. Only warning bells are that if it has to be correctly priced if AAA third party devs are going to be essentially ignored. Nothing wrong with a niche market - 3DS already has that and that's my favourite console. A shame to ignore AAA 3rd party devs, but to be honest I'd only play a few of their games and likely not the ones that are the true blockbusters on other systems. There may be something in the idea to "not compete" directly. I do miss some efforts though (even Ubisoft produced some really good games - 1st Rabbids, Rayman and I'd like Fractured But Whole). PC may have to be my second console. Hmm, I may have to get some dedicated graphics.
If power is all that it takes to get third parties on a Nintendo console then where were Borderlands Pre Sequel, Alien Isolation, Destiny, Far Cry 4 or any other late gen/crossgen games? The Wii U is more than capable of running those games. The userbase typically buys Nintendo & Nintendolike games. NX's best route is to be an inexpensive, impulse buy, Nintendo box that capitolizes on nostalgia, fun games, and their pop culture status.
@Quorthon Dude, do you even read news?! Need I remind you of Assassin's Creed Unity (still not running properly), Batman: Arkham Origins/Knight, Battlefield 3/4, Call of Duty: Ghosts, or Need for Speed: Rivals, to name some rather widely-known examples? It's not even Nintendo-related, it's literally everywhere, and it's infectious, seeing how even Nintendo starts putting out lazy efforts recently!
How about you take off your pretty black-and-white glasses and start making sense for once, instead of spouting the usual baseless assumptions? Just because something isn't directed against Nintendo doesn't automatically imply fanboyism - but you only seem to know about this extreme end and yourself, apparently.
I'm not sure since I don't know too much of power, but don't you need very much power to be able to play games like Witcher 3? I mean if there are less games coming out because of the power-problem, less people will buy this console. But anyway despite that Nintendo NEEDS to make sure that it isn't too hard to develop games for the NX. I've heard that some developers said developing games for the Wii U was the hardest/most challenging one out of the three next generation consoles. One unnamed company even said that they won't develop games because the Wii U is so complex. And of course, the marketing. Nintendo had problems marketing the Wii U resulting in bad sales.
Power is not everything, but for what you pay for a Nintendo console, some people expect a little bit... more? They make good games, but if nobody buys the consoles, there won't be as much support from other developers, I think. Part of the reason high-end PCs are so overpowered is Windows' bloat. Some Windows programs run faster on emulators on GNU-Linux than on actual Windows! Optimisation is everything here, although more raw power tends to make some things a little bit faster, that's the good thing about games consoles.
Great to see so many of you understand that gaming has greatly evolved and to keep going over previous generations is pointless.
Nintendo has now hopefully learned this. Gone are the days when every console had its own micro architecture, it's own media format etc.,
Cost of developing games meant at some point things must converge.
What N64 did in the Ninties is irrelevant. PS was not the most powerful console but the PS4 is. Sony believes in 2015 power will matter. MS believes power matters. Developers believe power matters and every indication points to the fact the people buying consoles think so too. Nintendo and a lot of their fans don't, however.
It's not rocket science, to get a bigger market share the NX needs to attract much more people than the Wii U.
Simple market research ( excluding Nintendo fans ) will clearly show why no one cares for Nintendo home consoles apart from a dwindling fanbase.
The biggest negative ( and laugh ) from other fanboys and to be honest the general gamer was Wii U's power. Before the thing even launched every single story on the Internet and media was about developers saying it being "weaker than the 360". It was regarded as a joke.
Nintendo games are great but they are appealing to a quickly shrinking userbase, not the general public.
Nintendo listened to their "fans" when they said they don't care for power or online. In Nintendo forums this is generally the case, or was. They all pretty much defended the Wii U's lack of power.
The problem is that Nintendo can no longer sustain a home console on these small number of fans. They need to give the general consumer what they want and if that's power or a gimmick (or both) then they better deliver.
@Hotfusion I think what the general public (or perhaps, a small base of former Nintendo owners who are a minority) wants is Nintendo's games. They don't want Nintendo console hardware. 3rd party is the only option for success, and even that's not guaranteed, as I personally think the only userbase that would buy them is people who used to buy Nintendo's systems - that's retreading lost ground, not expanding your audience, which means Nintendo is failing as a company even as a 3rd party.
i haven't liked Nintendo ever since Iwata took over.
The initial rumour started from a tweet about the NX not been as powerful as the PS4 ; he claims to be " absolutely sure of that now ". Then in a later tweet states that he knows this from " talking to the right people ". Not from seeing the hardware. Not from seeing any specifications. Just from talking to the right people. I talked to the right people , but they told me NX was more powerful than a PS6 , had an onboard grill and rotisserie and came with free doughnuts. Third parties still won't make any games for it. I'm just going to email MyNintendoSpews , TrollUDaily and NintendoStrife to spread the word.
Feel free to express your opinions without using profanity in the future.
Danke,
-TW
Nintendo are usually quite happy and quick to denounce rumours, like with the Android operating system being used for the NX.
However the fact that Nintendo have yet to say anything about the rumour regarding whether the NX won't be as powerful as the PS4 can mean one of two things:
Either Nintendo knows this is the case and therefore can't deny the claims being made,
Or
Nintendo knows this rumour isn't true but doesn't want to say anything because if they outright deny it then it will give away details about the console they don't want to discuss. They wouldn't want Sony or Microsoft to be aware that they may undercut them in affordability while being on par with the specs.
Personally I hope it's the latter of the two reasons. I don't think saying third parties don't sell well on Nintendo consoles is enough of a reason for Nintendo to justify not giving them what they want - power. Nintendo HAS to try and get them back on board. Failure to even acknowledge that is failure before you even officially announce the console to the world.
Nintendo really should be ideally investing in buying some studios to enable more first party titles as well. But that's another topic.
@EngieBengie Meh I always hate the term 'Hard-core gamer' what does it even mean? Is a hard-core g
I think needs to focus on getting the NX powerful enough to lure in the third parties (you know those bland mainstream every year a sequel games that all feel alike) But more importantly... Marketing.
Making people want it will net more sales then hoping your previous succes will be enough.
Personally I find a lot of third party multi-platform releases to be fun but bland like mcdonalds food.
And as much as succes 2 screens are on a handheld I prefer a regular controller with a single TV in my field of view.
Sometimes experiments with innovation do not always yield the wanted results but it helps to see what works and what not.
The gamecube had a lot of third part support yet failed to be on par with te ps2 in terms of succes.
Nintendo are ultimately gamblers - Wii paid off, Even the 3DS did too. The Wii U missed the mark- so with another roll of the dice, let's hope NX makes it 3/4 - which would be not bad at all
i hope ninty continues to forge its own path.
i hope they ignore the graphics/processing power rat race.
i hope they continue to "not compete" with PSONE.
i hope they again have another "gimmick" in NX, as most all their "gimmicky" additions are truly revolutionary.
i hope they continue to collaborate with other developers using Ninty IP.
i hope "having the ability to make an easier port" isnt their goal for their new hardware.
just keep being u nintendo. as a matter of fact, be wii u.
#slaythehaters.
I guess that what Nintendo is trying to do is not another Dreamcast, which, in its time was a powerful console created to attract the PS1/PC users and failed because of it but making a console for the masses, like the NES, GB, Wii, DS which were very succesful.
I think this is a better solution to keep along and return to profits than making another Gamecube fiasco like the Wii U. The fact that Miyamoto is out of the project points to that.
That's actually good news, it has a bigger chance for a better future.
@briwipdx Basically, I hope you die Nintendo. That's the message I got from reading the comment.
um power can also be regarding consumption... nintendo has prided itself on having the lowest power consuming consoles in the market. the Wii U is vastly more "capable" than the Wii but it consumes less "power" while being so.
It’s sad to read, that so many think it's all about the specs and being as powerful as PS4 / X1.
Nintendo games does not really need that much power to be great. Thier art style and gameplay work perfectly well with less powerful hardware. I am very satisfied with the performance of the Wii U, and I think Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong, Pikmin and Splatoon turned out to be great games, with beautiful HD graphics in 60fps. What more do you want as a Nintendo gamer???
I also love the hardware invention from Nintendo. Being it Wii’s motion control or the Wii U GamePad. I simply like their different and unique approach to gaming.
PS4 and X1 are almost identical machines, offering the same kind of content. I like them both, but I do not need my Nintendo console to offer the same stuff. I buy Nintendo consoles for their unique games, and you simply can't find similar stuff anywhere else.
But I would love it, if Nintendo implemented some of the features from the other consoles. Like a better and universal account system, Achievements, and greater online gaming functionalities. Nintendo are really behind in those areas, and they need to do it better.
Nintendo will not gain anything, if they just try to compete with Sony and MS on pure hardware specs. They actually tried to do just that with the GameCube long time ago, and that was not a huge success.
There is simply no market for three consoles, competing for the same niche audience, that is the “Core male gamer” between 14 - 45 years old. There is absolutely no growth in that consumer segment, and the competition is enormous.
The Playstation and Xbox brands are also much stronger when it comes to that segment, where Nintendo has a more “Family friendly” and “Childish” image. That makes it more difficult to compete with the other brands.
Since the NES and Gameboy, Nintendo has always tried to appeal and make games for everyone. Both casual and core gamers have always been among Nintendo consumers, and their "Family friendly" approach have served them very well. For decades Nintendo almost had the casual and family gamer market for themselves. And they have made huge profits of it.
When Sony and MS entered the console business, and captured almost all the core gamers, Nintendo looked elsewhere. Instead of joining the arms race, they tried to expand the whole gamer market by targeting everyone else but the core gamer. They created the DS and Wii, and those where a great financial and consumer successes for Nintendo.
But in the last 7-8 years or so, a new competitor has entered the gaming market. Smartphones and tablets have captured the casual gamers and kids, who all played on Nintendo DS and Wii a few years earlier. But this have also expanded the gaming audience to new heights, where people who never played games before, know are playing everyday on their smart devices.
That is both a problem and opportunity for Nintendo. While they have lost many consumers to smart devices, this fast and ever growing part of the gamer segment also promises great financial success for Nintendo, if they can get back into the “game”, and become relevant again.
Miyamoto recently said:
“I think unfortunately what ended up happening was that tablets themselves appeared in the marketplace and evolved very, very rapidly, and unfortunately the Wii [U] system launched at a time where the uniqueness of those features were perhaps not as strong as they were when we had first begun developing them.”
The above statement tells us, that Nintendo doesn't see Sony and MS as their main competitors anymore. Apple and Google are the new competitors for Nintendo's main target audience.
I think, that the Wii U will be Nintendo's last dedicated home console, and the NX will be a hybrid console that will both replace the Wii U and 3DS over time. It will probably be some sort of tablet console, with a conventional controller built in.
The NX will either be build on a forked Android foundation, with the e-shop as only “App store”, or at least provide an Android compatibility layer. This will help developers to port their mobile games to the NX platform, and provide it with a huge amount of content.
Parents will again buy a dedicated gaming console from Nintendo for their kids. Because it will provide them with Mario and Pokémon, as well as cheap touch based mobile games like Minecraft and Clash of Clans. At least the sales of the 3DS have showed us, that the demand for Nintendo games and content still exist among consumers.
Hopefully all this will bring back the much needed profits for Nintendo. And we can all continue to enjoy their great games in the future.
@IceClimbers HAH! Then they better give up on Nintendo's games if they continue this way wishing to go 3rd party, because Nintendo is eyeing on the mobile market to their strategy and they will seek to gain them aboard to their consoles, than seek to regain those former fans. They will be REPLACED and not have their voices on the table anymore, because of the driven masses. We will not tolerate those that are essentially a... self fulfilling prophecy. Those who wish to have their voice still at Nintendo's table better keep their tongue in check. The fanbase back at Miiverse are already on board with the mobile to console initiative. The fanbase' part in this plan is to educate the children we come to contact on smartphones that Nintendo/console gaming is superior, friendly, active, and fun than mobile. The lucrative thing about this is we see the potential to actually secure new blood for Nintendo and set them down the path to enjoy Nintendo primarily for what they are. We, the old, experienced, gaming veterans, will lay down what's true and they will truly enjoy it and all the good things that are to be expected from us as a community. In the long run, we will see the fanbase to be large and secure. On paper, those who secure the numbers in this way, as early as they can understand things and as soon as they gain their smart devices, will gain a unique advantage in the gaming industry. One of the best parts about this initiative, a new batch of children can come as early as a few months. We are standing on a gold mine, per se. We will seek to lock down those kind of numbers. Power usage will be one of the least of the worries in the competitive gaming industry, if you just can't secure the numbers. Nintendo, with its unique brand power and position, enough to now make a theme park with Universal, can only do this. Its fanbase will be active than never before, because... Well, the Wii did not have Miiverse back then, yet it was a success. Imagine now, now that we have Miiverse, if it's to be a big success. We will get what success we can. Like I said before, the time is coming. You want your voice still on Nintendo's (company and fanbase) table, keep your tongue in check.
No interest in the NX .... I love my Wii U and its Games ... Not going to buy another Nintendo Console for only Nintendo Games ... I will be Forced to Buy XBONE so I can Play Games like DOOM 4 & Gears Of War 4 and I will enjoy my Nintendo Wii U Catalog... Please do not make a cheap underpowered console ( compared to 3 year old systems) made for 12 year olds ..... Have no interest in Crap like Metroid Federation Force ... Love Nintendo hope this is not the End of my Love for the Big N ( fan since 1987 ) ... Still looking forward to Star Fox Zero & Yoshi's Woolly World
@dres I'm glad you brought up the fact that there is no room for 3 consoles that are too similar. The market for two of them is thin as is.
@dres Nice share.
More than power I think Nintendo needs a strong brand if they don't want to fail again. I mean, Sony and MS are strong brands themselves, but who has never heard of PlayStation or Xbox? That's huge. No one in my class knew about the Wii U when I was in college though. Yes, I know Nintendo doesn't give a c**p about South America, but still...
Nintendo should have never abandoned the GameBoy for that matter.
@EngieBengie Ikr
@Heiki Seriously, they gained enough brand power to finally make a theme park. That's Disney level famous to do that. After all, Mario is Nintendo's Mickey Mouse!
Actually, Mario is Mr Video Game himself.
That's one of Mario's famous nicknames, in case anyone doesn't know.
@N1ntendodo Of course, Nintendo as company and their IPs have strong brand power, but their consoles don't. They just use random names for each generation. That's my point.
As I said, Sony and MS are strong brands too. But they don't rely just on that.
@Heiki I agree with you. Although I will say, I do believe Nintendo's main IPs and Mascots are more recognized than the ones held by Sony or Microsoft.
As someone who, for home consoles, has mained Sony's stuff (and, heck, currently I'm pouring time into a Vita over my n3DS), when it comes to multiplatforms, I've sided with Sony unless there's something specifically unique to another platform. Nintendo's gonna need to at least reach parity, so that it's not a problem to do straight ports, and if these devs aren't encumbered by that process, they may just do more with their Nitnendo versions, like the second-screen jibberydoo we saw in the launch ports (and which the Vita could certainly use more of, Bethesda~). And beyond power, network features. "Cheevos" are a metagame now, on Xbox, on PlayStation, on Steam, and soon even GOG. Miiverse is excellent (I certainly like it more than what I've gleaned of the current PlayStation sphere, though trophy-triggered screenshots are cool, and I'm bummed to miss out on that for shared-list titles I've started on PS3/Vita), but Nintendo need to at least match, so that "immigrants" will have all the luxuries of their previous homes, and more.
@Heiki Nintendo has their consoles branded as "kiddy," not to say they aren't capable of going further than family friendly. Nonetheless, that can be used as an advantage in utilizing and integrating the mobile market's greatest strengths to our consoles. That's what Nintendo's investors clamored and signed up for and subsequently gave the stocks a big boost, tapping the mobile market. Appeal to the kids and casuals with the games and lead them to the consoles. Trust me, the games AND hardware are to stay. A smart investor must consider every profitable branch of the money tree and currently the Wii U and 3DS are doing just that. There were investors who were on board before the mobile announcement and they were doing decent. So, there is investor confidence in Nintendo's consoles. The successful Wii wasn't THAT long ago and yet some people misunderstood the Wii U was an add on. So it will be nice to see Nintendo branching out this time than "expanding the existing hardware."
@Heiki In that case, Nintendo should probably just go with "Nintendo". They wanted the "Wii" branding to be their brand of home consoles, like PlayStation and Xbox are for Sony and Microsoft. However, nobody says "Xbox, PlayStation, and Wii", they say "Xbox, PlayStation, and Nintendo". Why not bring back the NES branding? Or perhaps just "The Nintendo"?
@Aromaiden Not only that, but Nintendo makes the greatest games. As a platform holder, I would go as far as saying Nintendo is irrelevant to me (underpowered, gimmicky consoles and crappy network features with no achievement/trophy system).
And yet I buy Nintendo consoles just for the great games they make.
@IceClimbers You literally just blew my mind. I have never noticed that Nintendo has never had an standard name for its home consoles XD . That explains the Wii U's name.
@IceClimbers I totally agree. If they want to go mainstream again, they should make good use of their strong "Nintendo" brand.
For me it's a Nintendo's smartphone. It will have compatibility with TVs and will play some 3ds and WiiU games (access to eShop). Maybe runs an Android modified version and will have access to play store. Pokemon Rumble, TCG, Shuffle, Professor Layton and Mario Party likes will bright shinier than ever. Compared to others, the smartphone will be a medium-high. Still capable of running the series of new super mario bros (which I doubt will be ever released, for early years at least) but with not so great camera and memory. And so the model will be rereleased bigger and thinner, an SD case and tons of amiibos.
@BLPs Shouldn't that be the water level? After all, water levels are the most frustrating.
@BLPs Ahh, now I see. That makes sense.
Hopefully they learned their lesson with the Wii U and make the next system distinctly separate from the 'Wii' brand. Part of the problem with the Wii U is how long it took a lot of people to realize it wasn't just a fancier Wii with a new controller. My own mom, who is slightly into games, told me she didn't know why we needed one when most folks already had Wii systems in their homes. She thought you could just buy the Control Pad and use it on your Wii. I knew several people who had similar misconceptions. That is just one of the many challenges the next system has.
@BLPs - Thanks for changing your avatar, now I can stop having nightmares. Those eyes ... shiver
Well no matter what I will be getting a NX but Nintendo should really just up the power to be at least on the same level as xbox one and ps4 if only to keep the 3rd party devs happy or we will be seeing lots of
'watch dogs 2 skips nx'
EA saying 'we won't be making anything for the NX'
Rockstar 'no gta6 on NX'
It's almost as if they didnt learn anything from the wii u launch
@Ryno Just to be clear, I agree with you on 3rd Parties not coming back, or at least never selling good on any new Nintendo console ever again. But an example, is South Park ( which sold more versions than the PS1, because N64 version came out a year earlier) .... which is the same issue WiiU faced with 3rd party inferior ports that were a year old.
But I had to look far and wide for that example lol
The lynx dominated the gameboy and it killed it.
The problem is the killer games kids are playing are now on smart phones.
And their parents are giving them a 2 year old iphone or android phone for free.
Clash of clans?
Angry birds?
What's nintendo's response to that?
It's vital. They need as much power as the PS4(preferrably even more) if they want third party support.
And don't tell me third party support doesn't matter. The best selling games nowadays are rarely exclusives. It's always CoD, Battlefield, The Witcher, FIFA, etc, etc.
Also I think it's vital that with the NX Nintendo Network is vastly improved. But that's for another time.
yah I'm o.k with an underpowered console as long as it is cheap... $199.99 is the most I'm willing to pay with an underpowered console that only plays Nintendo first party games... However, unlike the Wii $199.99 has to be the real price and it should have not hidden costs. It also has to has a default controller I want to use as having to pay extra for a controller that does not suck as it happened with the Wii and Wii U was very alienating.
My stance on the topic of hardware power:
The NX doesn't need to blow the competition away with superior hardware.
It'll cost a lot for the consumer and if we try to retain backwards-compatibility it will cost more in the long run if you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Just look at the PS3s launch if you don't believe me. No one's going to shell out $700 for a system now. At least not willingly.
However, the NXs hardware has to at least be able to keep up with competitors.
The lack of third party support has crippled the Wii U. I thought the Wii U could get by without them, relying on absolutely superb first party titles, of which there has been PLENTY. Even though the Wii U has Smash, Splatoon, Bayonetta, Devil's Third, Ryu Ga Gotoku, Xenoblade X, StarFox Zero, Fatal Frame V and MANY other superb first-party titles, the stigma of the console being geared to children is being perpetuated by trolls and ignorantly consumed by...well, consumers.
I still believe the Wii U is capable of a great many things, however. There's just some pattern in developer behavior that I've still yet to discern. Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric has shown that the CryEngine will work on the Wii U, just that the game itself was rushed to meet demand. Activision has consistently used the same Call of Duty engine since Modern Warfare 3 and still runs great on the Wii U. Even Frostbite 3 has been said to work on the Wii U, though not to DICEs expectations.
Just what is really keeping third parties away from the Wii U? Is it because the other companies are buying exclusivity from them like Sony and Microsoft? Or is it because Nintendo has their own agenda to try and eradicate competition by making new franchises of more genres of games?
Third party games indeed sell on other consoles, that much is undeniable. However, Sony is barely breaking even from PS4 sales, making only $12 after production costs - and that's not even counting the retailer's cut. It's even worse for the XBO. First party productions from Sony and Microsoft are paltry at best, relying more on re-releases of last-gen games to make income rather than making new IPs or making good, or even adequate sequels to existing ones.
Yet the only games that sell - are guaranteed to sell - are games from EA, Ubisoft and Activision. Does it cost them anything other than development and advertising costs to make games? They don't have to worry about making hardware AND games. PC gamers buy their own components and Sony and Microsoft make their hardware through third-parties as well.
Developers? Well, aside from advertising, PC hardware and employee salaries, I doubt they're taking much of a hit financially.
So, when I try to think of what will save these top console dogs in the future, I can't conceive of much. Consoles are going to become an antique, that's undeniable. Technology is constantly evolving. Nintendo's hardware release patterns are indicative of that. They're trying to move forward while many are stuck in the past, at least when it comes to gameplay. This Quality of Life plan Iwata's talking about...I can only hope it'll raise the bar by leaps and bounds and change gaming the way we know it forever - implement gaming into our lives like smartphones have become a vital part of ours already.
Anyway, I was too lazy to read the article or the comments of this thread. I just wanted to have my opinion on display...unless of course some miscreant decides he doesn't like how I think and report my post.
-CoughCoughQuorCoughThonCoughCoughHACK-
For anyone saying power isn't everything and contrasting from 20 years ago. Guess what? The landscape has changed. Power does matter. I'm not including handhelds though
Last chance for Nintendo indeed. Should they fail, they will end up being the next "Sega" by 2020. Time will indeed tell...
@hcfwesker You only needed to go back a couple of years to Rayman Legends.Released on all consoles at the same time yet sold best on Wii U which had a much smaller user base. If they had actually released it on time it's sales on Wii U would likely have been much higher,maybe even more than all the other consoles combined.If Ubisoft had kept their word who knows,maybe the Wii Us fortunes could have turned out different.That delay happened at the worst possible time for the Wii U and it's never really recovered from it.
@Aromaiden Yup. They had hoped to get people who had never played video games before the Wii to invest in deeper games and become more dedicated. Didn't work out very well.
Also, you were quite off on your guess for the number of posts on this article. There's almost double
Those saying power doesn't matter are wrong. Citing previous generations is hugely misleading. The PS1 may have been slightly less powerful than the N64 but it was capable of the likes of Ridge Racer, Resident Evil, FFVII, Gran Turismo etc. each in their time absolutely cutting edge. Likewise the PS2 may have been slightly behind Xbox and Gamecube but as it was wielding Gran Turismo 3, Grand Theft Auto 3 and Jak and Daxter by the time the competition even got released it didn't appear to be. To win a generation sales wise you have to be competitive on power and ideally first to market.
The Wii is the only anomaly to have outsold its competition on a significant lack of power and that had the advantage of a revolutionary USP and the fact consumers had to buy new TVs to take advantage of PS3/360's graphical advantages
It's amazing how many people are saying power = third party support. It means nothing, the only thing that matters is the installed base. If Nintendo sells 50 million units in two years, third parties will run to it like mad... with crappy ports of old games. If it's two times more powerful than the PS4 and it sells 10 million units after two years (which is better than the Wii U), it will be ignored.
The only way they'll get third party support is if it's cheap and easy to port software to. But even if it was a PS4 clone, third parties wouldn't care to do the marketing & publishing work necessary to support a platform with no install base. At best they might release a couple titles at launch to hedge their bets, like they did with the Wii U.
No matter what, I see this console being ignored by third parties for a couple years unless they come up with another Revolution. I don't see Nintendo designing a console for third party needs; I only see them coming up with something that they'll be able to sell in large quantities, whatever that is. Power is only one factor in that, and an expensive one.
@dres I don't think that route is a viable option for Nintendo take right now. The main problem with going down that path is that parents won't buy their kids a Nintendo hybrid console just because it will have an eShop app store where developers can port their mobile games over. Most children now days have a smartphone bought buy their parents, and many even have or have access to tablets. So the need for parents to even consider Nintendo's NX would be nearly zero percent having already satisfied that criteria. And remember, many mobile gaming children don't actually care about Nintendo's games or characters.
@rishisquid I agree in principle but it's still the reality I have a problem with....people are now established Microsoft or Sony and I don't think they would buy an NX if they are not Nintendo fans already as they will want to play the next Third party on their ps4 as usual as they will get their trophies or because they've played them all on their play station... The lure of a Nintendo machine is the Nintendo first party games and I just don't think people will replace their current console with an NX unless it does something different
You people do know the guy who made the rumour "NX not to be as powerful as PS4", later said it was BS on his part right?
https://twitter.com/Doctor_Cupcakes/status/617438673496350720/photo/1
@awesome0 what? The Lynx did nothing of the sort! How bizarre.
@locky-mavo
Where does he say that? Your link shows the opposite.
Well, the title of this article says it all, really.
It need to be at least the power of a ps4. If not it's a disappointment.
When it got less power you get those games with downgraded graphics on youre system. There's no point in a new system if it does not compare to a ps4/ xboxone
This looks hopefull btw https://twitter.com/Doctor_Cupcakes/status/617438673496350720/photo/1
This suggests Nintendo have decided to exit the core gamer market. That's probably the right decision, as it's relatively small (~50mil consumers worldwide?) and already dominated by MS and Sony.
The problem is getting 'casual' gamers to buy dedicated hardware when everyone already has a phone they can play games on.
The way I could see Nintendo doing this is by working on getting their 3DS customer base onto the new device. Partnering with companies like Atlus and other 3rd party Japanese publishers with already successful 3DS games. Launch with Animal Crossing and all those amiibo and amiibo cards supported. Plus bring in the likes of Gung-ho, Gree, Nexon and so on, as well of course as DeNA. Making familiar mobile brands available on a FireTV type device, like they did when bringing Puzzle & Dragon to 3DS. And of course having their own newly released mobile games cross over with the NX. It'd be a very Japanese centric strategy though, even if it plays to all their strengths.
People who are hoping that the NX will be some sort of powerhouse will very disappointed.
Competing with Sony and Microsoft with raw specs is the worst thing Nintendo could possibly do. History has shown - in the majority of console generations - that going down the 'power' route is a dangerous move. Even the SNES - while undoubtedly successful - was still beaten by the Genesis in North America. The current console generation is the only exception, so far.
Not to mention the practical dangers. Nintendo doesn't have the resources of its competitors; if they engage in the power game, what's to stop the other companies from constantly one-upping them? Such a road is a dangerous one - especially for a company that is so reliant of hardware profit.
Believe it or not, there are benefits of going down the 'weak' route. The lower costs enable more experimentation, not to mention a greater degree in profitability. That's why a title like Hyrule Warriors can 'only' sell a million units, and still be deemed successful. Contrast that to the Tomb Raider remake, which was apparently a flop, despite shifting 3.4 million copies!
One just needs to look at last gen as a lesson in the dangers of high development costs. Countless developers and publishers went bankrupt because of the PS3 and Xbox 360, and we're still seeing closures to the present day.
Now, that's not to say power is unimportant - or that Nintendo shouldn't pack some grunt under the hood. But rather, hardware specs shouldn't override innovation - and yes, that also means 'gimmicks'. Because innovation and gimmicks are one and the same - one cannot exist without the other. Failure is unavoidable in the pursuit of new successes, and Nintendo knows this. It has lasted for 126 years because of its refusal to stand still and just 'accept' things the way they were. Nintendo needs to be paranoid. It needs to keep trying new things, because it is dangerous to be complacent - especially for a relatively small company (compared to behemoths like Microsoft, Apple and Google).
You know; here's the thing I think Nintendo really underestimates these days—presentation and production value.
Yes, a handful of its games are of a generally very high standard but something like the new Star Fox is just a total stinker when it comes to the level of presentation and production value in the game.
I mean many people laugh at the likes of Metroid Other M, as though it were some truly terrible and broken game or something, but I was watching a playthrough video the other day and it was astonishing to be reminded of the level of polish, presentation and production value put into a game like this, especially when compared to most of the stuff Nintendo is creating these days on its more powerful current-gen console. Just look at the production value across the entire product here and imagine a new Star Fox game with this level of presentation and production value: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Vs7Mlj8VY (watch a few of the parts)
Yet, in a time where many gamers want games that will simply blow them away in terms of presentation and production values, Nintendo gives them something like Star Fox Zero, which looks like it was made in the Wii era–with all the downsides that come with that, such as underwhelming graphics, almost no effort put into presentation and production value, and stupid forced gimmicky controls. I mean, Christ, if just the graphics alone in this new Star Fox were up to the same level of quality as Other M it would be a good start—and ironically, Other M actually is literally a "Wii era" game.
Even with a game like say Super Mario 3D World the same issues are apparent in some ways. I mean the general graphics are of a really high quality but if you look past that one aspect, then the rest of the game is pretty weak when it comes to presentation and production value. I mean the story is laughably bad—more so than you might consider the stories for many of the previous Super Mario games, even the early 2D ones like Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World, which relative to their times actually have better realised and presented stories. Also; even things like the levels themselves are pretty underwhelming if you look beyond just the main area you can play in. Where's any kind of proper presentation, and a proper representation of the Mario Kingdom, beyond these floating obstacle courses in mostly empty space? It's generally pretty weaksauce stuff. That's not a judgement on the gameplay, which is obviously great, but just the presentation and production value—and this is even one of Nintendo's most impressive current-gen games in that respect.
Everything about modern Nintendo kinda reflects that attitude to presentation and production value imo, and you can even see it in the way it designs its modern consoles and how it forgoes almost everything that could allow for high presentation levels and production values; going for underpowered hardware and gimmicks instead—that it doesn't even use or realise to its full potential half the time.
I really worry about exactly what Nintendo has planned with the NX, because in many ways I'm not sure it fully understands anymore exactly what gets gamers juices flowing; what really excites them and sparks their imaginations.
Hey, as long as it plays Mario, Zelda etc. games, I'll buy it. Hope they unveil it on January 1st 2016!
@Kirk - Well, take a look at the most popular games out there. Minecraft. Rust. Day-Z. All those Facebook and Smartphone apps. They're not exactly the most cinematic of games. Even Splatoon.
If anything, 'cinematic' games have gotten a bad reputation lately, due to the negative connotations of stinkers like The Order: 1886 and E3 bullshots. On top of that, games like Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Pokemon and Animal Crossing are all hugely successful - and I wouldn't exactly call them Kubrick-esque masterpieces.
I'm not saying all games SHOULDN'T be cinematic though - just that pure gameplay should always take precedence; and such a mindset is the reason why Nintendo's franchises have lasted for so long. It may not be as immediately 'flashy' as Hollywood-aping title, but they certainly last much, much longer in the minds of gamers. I doubt people will be talking about Uncharted in 20 years time like they way they do Mario or Zelda.
@Kage_88 #313 I don't think that's a defence/excuse for Nintendo forgoing high presentation and production values—at least with its biggest and most beloved first party games/franchises, which Star Fox definitely is for example.
All those classic Nintendo franchises became so beloved in the first place because along with the world class controls, gameplay and level design, they actually did also have that brilliant presentation and production value originally too (relative to the times). I mean actually look at games like Super Mario Bros 3, Super Mario World, Donkey Kong Country, Super Metroid, F-Zero (SNES), Super Mario Kart, Star Fox (SNES), Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, GoldeneEye...and consider how all-round impressive those games were relative to the times, the hardware capabilities of the time and the expectations of gamers at the time... It was actually the combination of all the elements working brilliantly that made people fall in love with these games/francises, and I think Nintendo and even a lot of fans are forgetting exactly what made these games so special in the first place, especially once Nintendo really got into its stride with some of them (largely the SNES/N64 era imo). It never was just the gameplay in a vacuum for example, and creating games with the attitude that all that really matters is some decent gameplay, maybe some gimmick, and little else, is the massive error that current day Nintendo seems to be making over and over imo.
I can tell you this for pretty much a fact: If Star Fox Zero was the first ever Star Fox game, and it released today as basically the same game we've seen thus far in demos, then in 20 years time pretty much nobody would be talking about the Star Fox franchise and certainly not with any great love.
Designing modern hardware around that thinking too—that you don't need to instil a sense of awe, wonder and magic, or impress and excite consumers in any way beyond just a gimmick—is also where I think Nintendo is making the same kind of huge mistake over and over these days. It's the same reason why the recent 3D craze flopped too; because once you get past the gimmick, of wearing those stupid glasses, there's not really that much else to get excited about. Many of these 3D movies have less love and care put into them than movies that came 20 years ago, so without the 3D they're basically underwhelming soulless experiences. VR on the other hand will likely be the exact opposite of that however, imo; because once you get past the fact it's VR it doesn't change the other fact that it's a total paradigm shift in how you experience interactive media, more immersive than anything that has come before, and that's an actual game changer. It's like how going from 2D to 3D in video games was a game changer. Some paths and tech don't really add that much to the experience and others fundamentally alter the gaming landscape forever. I worry that Nintendo might be in a such a mindset that it ends up designing something that goes along the 'ultimately throwaway gimmick' path with the NX.
Nintendo can constantly try to do something totally "new" or it could just try to do the very best version of what generally already exists, and unless the "new" thing it tries is genuinely some kind of game changer and paradigm shift, like the move to 3D graphics was or the move to VR will likely be, then personally I think I'd rather it just created the very best of the kind of experiences we already love, and that we have demonstrated very clearly we love time and time again. It did that with the SNES, just created the very best of the kind of experiences we already love (both in terms of hardware and games), and it's without any shadow of a doubt one of the greatest and all-round most satisfying console experiences ever created.
It really depends on what the NX is... If it's a handheld/home console hybrid it could easily get away with being on par with the Wii U or slightly stronger. But if it's a more traditional design the lack of power becomes more of a detriment.
@WiiLovePeace How about April 1st 2016?
2016 would be far too early to replace the Wii U plus they just released the New 3ds. Nintendo is starting to look a bit too similar to SEGA in hardware business decisions. The difference is that Nintendo has AMIBO and has been able to deliver on its games more consistently.
I strongly believe that a big reason for Nintendo to release consoles that are somewhat under powered is to make development costs attractive to Japanese games developers. Cutting edge games are getting ridiculously expensive to develop games for. The best bet for attracting 3rd parties is to make the system easy to port games to from PC and other consoles.
If we're just going to argue about this power BS, then I'm going to quit console gaming as a whole and go for PC. Console gamers need to understand this; that console gaming should not go for the easy PC malleable route, because if they did, the whole competition is going to be completely unsustainable with services like STEAM and GOG. The console market will die if they compete with the PC route because the PC route offers more than just a gaming experience as it has become a box of important utilities as well as a multimedia device. It is completely stupid to argue that power is a definitive thing for console gaming these days.
It is not and the only thing that awaits console gamers from here on is a desolate wasteland filled with old consoles and games that PC already has. Trying to keep up with PC's these days with consoles is utterly futile. If Nintendo is going to match their specs on PC, they might as well release games on the PC and regularly upgrade their machine with parts instead of a whole package and cannibalize themselves for it.
This is really getting annoying, we know nothing about NX yet and this is all speculation.
The Wii U was killed already and that really hurts, it has enough power to run many more new games and I´m very happy with it. The only thing is that it needs more games. Nothing new on E3 for it was like a dead sentance an now everyone only talks about NX
My Wii U need some long adventure and RPG games (my favorite type of game) there was barely anything on it so far. And what was promise for it
I´m still waiting: Meaning Xenoblade X and Zelda U
Xenoblade is out in Japan and if that can be done on the Wii U, they should be able to do more of it. I expect Nintendo to support the Wii U until the end of 2017, it is a great console just need more games!!!!
TLDR
I'm thinking that there are few issues to consider.
Nintendo really value their back-catalogue and would want to continue to be able to sell all those games. This probably includes even WiiU games, so I am thinking that 'under the hood' we might still be looking at something similar to WiiU (which in turn is similar to Wii and GC before it), essentially PowerPC based. I'm not sure if it really matters too much if they switch to Intel, for instance, as modern development tools make it less of an issue what the actual target hardware is. An Intel design might be cheaper in hardware terms, but incur costs in other ways if they have to develop emulation strategies for their older consoles.
This does not mean that they will end up with a system that is necessarily all that far off PS4/XboxOne in power though. The question is if it is able to run current-gen multiplatform game designs (Star Wars Battlefront, Assassins Creed, plus FIFA and NFL series etc.), even if there are some compromises. A slightly lower spec would probably not kill it as long as those third party games are backed up by the high quality, fully optimised Nintendo titles, which can only be played on NX. Basically for the Nintendo fan who likes to play a few other mainstream games, and the more casual gamer who isn't bothered about how many fps their console produces. I think it would have to be closer match than Wii to PS3/360 was though.
Also, by the time this is released, PS4 and Xbox will be mid-life, probably get cost-down designs and price cuts. Lets face it, if you really wanted either, you would have bought one already. However, Sony, for instance, said they were looking for a 10-year life cycle for the PS4, so we should not expect a PS5 within 5 years at least - and that's assuming Sony don't implode in the mean time, which is not impossible, given their financial situation (PlayStation is successful, everything else they sell is looking pretty sickly).
So Nintendo could go one of two ways, they could produce an expensive powerhouse, but would almost certainly have to subsidise the price to make it competitive with the mid-life consoles, and risking losses if they don't hit the sales numbers of software to offset the hardware loss.
Alternatively, and more likely, they will go for something less powerful, but with some unique features (such as the handheld-hybrid concept) and which ideally makes a profit on every unit sold from day 1. One of the failures of the WiiU design is that it is too expensive to make, with the gamepad adding a lot of cost - this means that they either take a loss on sales, or have to keep the price relatively high, which is what they have done.
A new console, or handheld/home console hybrid, at $200 or less is heading towards 'no-brainer' pricing - where people might well consider it as a second console, or for use as a handheld even if they already have one or more of the other two.
If they can hit the sweet spot of pricing, power and unique features, they can surely have another Wii-style hit, but I think a fail on any one of these could doom them,
I seem to remember turok 2 and rogue squadron doing pretty well on the n64.people forget the market was different then and most people I knew tended to buy nintendo but they'd often rent 3rd party games from blockbuster for a few weekends. As opposed to now where folk wait for discounts or preowned from game.
3rd party games don't need to rival mario kart and smash for sales they just need to be profitable (prob between 100-250k onwards if it's multiplat,500k and above for an exclusive) to keep the release schedule ticking over.
@TheWeird #322 See here's the thing: What make more sense to you...
Develop a console that's easy for Nintendo to emulate/run older games on but that will likely put off many third parties from developing games for it, if it's just a major hassle to do so (for multiple reasons); or develop a console that makes it really easy for third parties to support and developer their games for, that's maybe a little bit harder for Nintendo to run its older games on but still entirely possible (like Microsoft has managed with Xbox 360 BC on Xbox One)?
I think making the entire process as easy as possible for all those third party developers, that Nintendo sorely needs, is the way to go. Then Nintendo can just push its talented developers to make sure it also gets full backwards compatibility for VC games as well as maybe Wii and Wii U discs and stuff like that on there too.
To me; that's the smarter business approach, in the long term—because ultimately it's getting the best of both worlds, or at least creating that possibility, rather than basically sacrificing one for the other.
This is the kind of thing however where I think Nintendo has its priorities just all messed up these days and is thinking about everything all wrong. It shoots itself in the foot by really only thinking about what's easiest and best for itself, usually in the short term, without really fully considering the bigger implications and the longer term picture.
Nintendo digs its own grave. The new system should be,light years ahead of the WiiU. Multi-core/thread processors, high speed RAM, SSDs, and graphics cards have never been so cheap. HD should become UHD with the NX. You should be able to buy a USB optical drive as an add on that will play WiiU, Wii, and Game Cube discs. I have a feeling of disappointment already and I really want my kids to be nintendo kids like I was back in the mid-80s.
@scottp999 #325 To me this perfectly sums up both where Nintendo is at and also where a lot of its fans are at right now too.
That's a dangerous situation for Nintendo to be in and it has to make very smart decisions, that are actually good for everyone and not just itself, or else it's just going to dig that hole even deeper imo.
I never realised how many business experts and financial advisers visited this site. It seems with the advent of the internet everyone is an expert at everything nowadays. I'm exhausted....zzzzzzz
I dont care about third parties games or graphics got my pc for that. Didnt bought wii or wii U. Waiting since gamecube for a nintendo console with a normal controller. If the NX got that I will buy it. Zelda, mario, metriod, pokemon etc etc that are the games I will buy it for!
@Kage_88
"Cinematic games have gotten a bad reputation lately..." You have apparently based this comment entirely on The Order 1886 and somehow failed to realize that cinematic titles like Witcher III, Telltale's games, Life is Strange, GTA, Metal Gear Solid, Far Cry 4, Tomb Raider, Alien Isolation, and numerous others have been performing extremely strongly. Hell, Witcher 3 basically outsold Mario Kart 8 in a month.
@Peek-a-boo Not STRICTLY true. While it would certainly put them at a cross road, as to where to go next. Going on their reserves alone, it was analysed by Bloomberg's of America a couple of months ago. Nintendo would have to FAIL TOTALLY for the next 5 console generations, before they would need to start liquidizing assets.
Obviously their share holders would not allow this to happen. On a personal note, as much as I have liked many of his ideas and creations, I think Iwata should be moved aside, and a younger, more in touch person should take his place.
@STAGGLY I mean the lynx technically was far more advanced than the gamebody, and yet the gameboy totally dominated the lynx. But the gameboy was more affordable and much smaller (especially relative to the Lynx I).
Honestly it doesn't really matter what Nintendo shows me about the NX. I'm just more interested in having an Xbox One added to my game system collection, especially since it is going to have backwards compatibility now. There are too many Xbox 360 games I haven't played, and getting full retail games at a discounted price is something I can't ignore. Still, I do really hope that Nintendo's next console is a major success. With all of the quality games they release they sure do deserve it.
@Kaze_Memaryu
"Dude, do you even read news?! Need I remind you of Assassin's Creed Unity (still not running properly), Batman: Arkham Origins/Knight, Battlefield 3/4, Call of Duty: Ghosts, or Need for Speed: Rivals, to name some rather widely-known examples? It's not even Nintendo-related, it's literally everywhere, and it's infectious, seeing how even Nintendo starts putting out lazy efforts recently!
How about you take off your pretty black-and-white glasses and start making sense for once, instead of spouting the usual baseless assumptions? Just because something isn't directed against Nintendo doesn't automatically imply fanboyism - but you only seem to know about this extreme end and yourself, apparently."
Calling these issues laziness is itself incredibly gross laziness and ignorance of how the industry works.
A game launching with issues does not mean the developers were lazy, and it's incredibly stupid to even assume so. You are also painstakingly cherry-picking and applying a few problems to the industry as a whole--oh, except for Nintendo who apparently never releases broken, buggy messes like Other M or Flingsmash or the countless Smash Bros bugs that have been documented. By your own logic, Nintendo is a lazy developer.
Arkham Origins, for instance, had problems because it was developed by a completely different studio than the studio that made the other Arkham games.
Yep, Battlefield 4 had serious problems. Lazy developers? How about placing the blame where it belongs--on EA who screwed up the handling of the game in a desperation to release it at a specific time to compete with Call of Duty.
Call of Duty: Ghosts suffered more from franchise fatigue than anything else, and an exodus of Infinity Ward's top guys in the interim. No, no, better that you blindly assume that everyone there is just f**king lazy because you aren't smart enough to understand these issues. Activision, quite clearly, paid attention to some of these issues and modified how the entire CoD franchise is handled, to the point that Advanced Warfare was highly celebrated.
Assassin's Creed Unity also struggled with franchise fatigue as well as new hardware struggles--it was the first next-gen Assassin's Creed game, so there are going to be learning curves and early missteps, which happens literally every new hardware generation. Hell, look back at the Metascores of X360 launch games--annualized sports titles fared worse on the X360 the first year than the PS2 at the same time (2005) because the new hardware brought learning curves.
No, no, no, just call them "laze," because it's so much easier than actually having understanding. Yes, it's unfortunate when these things happen, and rather than b**ching and moaning about developers and literally calling all of them lazy for a few struggling games, which has become a running theme in your posts, why not bother actually learning a few things about the industry? This is an industry that became notable over the last generation for working developers to the bones. When I tested at Activision, we worked 72-hour work weeks. Oh, but that's lazy to you, because a game somewhere launched with problems, so that makes all developers lazy--which you adamantly cling to--because "angry fanboy is angry," because I sincerely cannot think of any other reason you would refuse to learn any of this and wish to continue to grasp an apparent conspiracy theory that "all developers are just lazy."
Yes, bad games happen, mistakes are made, and sometimes--occasionally a developer is lazy. But a lazy developer isn't making Call of Duty or Batman or Battlefield. They're making Meme Run and The Letter and Big Rigs Racing and cheap clones of Angry Birds. Those are lazy developers.
On top of this, you completely, deliberately ignore the impact that publishers have on these things. Is it the developer's fault Battlefield 4 had problems? Or should we be looking at EA's management instead for rushing an incomplete game with known issues? It's not like it was the first time EA did this--as it happened with Sim City one year before.
Though it is disturbingly hilarious for the pot (you) to be calling the kettle (me) black in the "baseless assumptions" category as you have taken a single baseless assumption and applied it to an entire industry, targeting every 3rd party developer as equally lazy. No, your assessment is insanely lazy, and solidifies the definition of ignorance.
You have failed to supply valid evidence to your claim that the majority of the industry is made up of lazy developers, and instead cherry picked a few games with issues, applied them to literally everybody while you refuse to understand so you can cling to being wrong. That is not something that should be a point of pride.
Well they have to be doing something right already. At E3 they showed the console to a few key third party developers and they had "positive" reactions.
Heck, even Gearbox is going to be developing for the NX. This hit Twitter yesterday as a leaked e-mail, and Gearbox said no comment. http://postimg.org/image/jm2qqn003/
So things are already looking better for the NX.
Cut Nintendo some slack, they seem to have learned from their mistakes with the U.
@Kirk And who says Nintendo doesn't have high production values? Videogames are not movies - just because a game has sweeping panoramic shots, JJ Ambrams-esque lens flare and an obnoxious orchestrated soundtrack, doesn't make it somehow 'better presented' than a game like Mario or Star Fox.
The latter game in particular is ironic, because one of the things praised about that series was just HOW movie-like it was... So, if Star Fox Zero is exactly the same as its predecessors, does that mean it also is movie-like? Or is it actually a bare-bones experience, as you are implying?
"I can tell you this for pretty much a fact: If Star Fox Zero was the first ever Star Fox game, and it released today as basically the same game we've seen thus far in demos, then in 20 years time pretty much nobody would be talking about the Star Fox franchise and certainly not with any great love."
You're confusing fact with opinion. You haven't played Star Fox Zero. We don't even know how complete the game is. What a ridiculous claim.
"Designing modern hardware around that thinking too—that you don't need to instil a sense of awe, wonder and magic, or impress and excite consumers in any way beyond just a gimmick—is also where I think Nintendo is making the same kind of huge mistake over and over these days."
Really? Because from my experiences, Nintendo still designs the most immersive games of any company. The Mario Galaxy games were my favourites of last gen - and were the highest rated, too. It divided opinion, but I thought Skyward Sword was very captivating, too. A Link Between Worlds, Pikmin 3, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade - hell, even Animal Crossing - you're saying none of those are immersive?
"VR on the other hand will likely be the exact opposite of that however, imo; because once you get past the fact it's VR it doesn't change the other fact that it's a total paradigm shift in how you experience interactive media, more immersive than anything that has come before, and that's an actual game changer. It's like how going from 2D to 3D in video games was a game changer."
Umm... What? You criticise 3D for being a fad, and that you have to wear stupid headwear... Before praising VR - which has just as much chance of being a fad... Whilst wearing stupid headwear? To add, I'm not convinced VR will be anything extraordinary; like Warren Spector himself said, the tech creates a disconnect from reality - and some health experts believe having two HD screens strapped to your eyes is very detrimental to you. AR, on the other hand, is where the money is at, IMO.
"Nintendo can constantly try to do something totally "new" or it could just try to do the very best version of what generally already exists, and unless the "new" thing it tries is genuinely some kind of game changer and paradigm shift, like the move to 3D graphics was or the move to VR will likely be"
See, that's the thing - you can't tell if the 'new' thing WILL be a game-changer or a gimmick. That's the entire point of experimentation - failure is always a risk. The rewards, however, are huge. There's only so much you can do by constantly polishing what already exists - relying on such a method leads to market stagnation. Take 3D graphics you mentioned; back then, no-one knew if they would genuinely improve gaming - or if they would have just been (yes) a gimmick. Believe it or not, many thought gaming was perfect with 2D graphics, and were quick to point out the flaws of moving to 3D (cost, complexity, cumbersome, etc). Yet, Nintendo broke the mold with Mario 64 - whilst other 3D games were clumsy affairs. They experimented, and it paid off, and now virtually every 3D, 3rd-person videogame today is based on Mario 64's template. Also, the DS - Nintendo simply could have released a souped-up Game Boy, but they chose the dual-screen, touch based method. I remember virtually everyone scoffing at this, whilst proclaiming the death of Nintendo (my, how times have changed) and the dominance of the PSP. Look what happened, not only did the DS succeed, but it paved the way for smartphones and tablets. None of that would've happened if Nintendo simply 'refined' what already existed.
@Quorthon "You have apparently based this comment entirely on The Order 1886 and somehow failed to realize that cinematic titles like Witcher III, Telltale's games, Life is Strange, GTA, Metal Gear Solid, Far Cry 4, Tomb Raider, Alien Isolation, and numerous others have been performing extremely strongly. Hell, Witcher 3 basically outsold Mario Kart 8 in a month."
No. I based that comment on the increasing discontent that is rising from consumers due to the industry's obsession over pretty (and oftentimes fake) presentation in an effort to impress, whilst the gameplay turns out to barren and lifeless. Have not seen all the articles about the last couple of E3 shows, and how publishers were showcasing style over substance? Remember Watch_Dogs? Destiny? Titanfall? Evolve? AC Unity?
And as I said before, cinematic games and good gameplay are not mutually exclusive. I used The Order: 1886, because it represents everything with the 'graphics > gameplay' mentality that is flooding the 'Triple-A' industry. It is by no means the only game, but it is fallacy to say that Nintendo 'needs' to adopt this movie-like approach to its games. Such reverence for Hollywood reeks of desperation, and de-legitimises everything that videogames represent - and what their potential holds. There are so many different ways to tell a story - not just through cutscenes, but by DOING, which is what I've always liked about Nintendo games. The story isn't just the narrative - it's the way you interact with the world, and how you go about solving its puzzles.
To somehow say that such a method is 'outdated' is utterly asinine.
Also, that's a bizarrely random list of games there. They're all 'cinematic' in differing ways. Telltale's games are nothing like Far Cry 4, and Metal Gear Solid is nothing like Alien Isolation. I think you're confused.
Witcher 3 is no more 'movie-like' than Zelda. It sold more than Mario Kart 8? Wow, if only Witcher 3 wasn't available on three formats - compared to MK's home of 10 million Wii Us - I would have been shocked, otherwise!
@SplatFan Samba de Amigo (Wii) was developed by Gearbox so it's not looking better until more detail is given.
@Quorthon You're pretty quick to blame shifting to the people with the money, but you're making this way too easy for yourself.
Every single game I've noted as examples (not the entirety of lazily made games) still suffers from issues that cannot be excused away by deadlines and publishers being stupid, though it adds to the decline of the industry.
No, they all contain junk data, which lengthens load times, they all have framerate issues that were never resolved, and they all are notorious for investing more into advertisement than development. That's an undeniable sign of developers and publishers not trusting their product to resonate with consumers, but instead of improving the game, they leave it as it is and instead manipulate consumers and lie to them. Also, what else than blatant laziness would you call the incredible amount of Early Access games? Not to mention that consoles are even embracing the concept of having consumers pay money to the developers to do the job these very developers had, which is testing and bug reports.
So let me cover it now:
I could go on for a week or so, but I'm starting to feel that it's wasted on you, anyway. And frankly, I don't care how far publishers are involved: these publishers depend on their developers, and development teams (like Treyarch with Black Ops III) already showed that simply demanding more time can work wonders, but most other never even think about it - they don't care.
Big developers have a tendency of being too full of themselves to really put effort into their games or even assuming their authority as developers against bad publishers. And before you go for "they have a job to lose", so? I don't let the possibility of being fired get in the way of doing my job properly, either. And I know what pressure is, that much I can say.
Also, just to note as much, you seem to have completely missed how I pointed out that Nintendo is starting to adapt these kinds of bad practices, as well, but of course that statement conveniently didn't exist in your head, otherwise your usual "you're a Nintendo fanboy" routine wouldn't make sense anymore. Seriously, stop making up excuses for developers. Maybe it was a bit far-fetched to accuse most 3rd-party developers of laziness, but nonetheless, this very laziness is often the reason WiiU ports don't happen - under the excuse of the "WiiU being hard to work with", something that didn't stop these very developers from outputting fully separate games on the Wii, or making ports for the GameCube.
And with that, you have everything you need to know. Whether you continue to disagree, I don't care - I'm doing it like the examples above and be too lazy to bother with further examples, everything that matters has been said. Search them yourself.
Sadly, this year I've started to think Nintendo needs to drop the home console business entirely. Competing with PS4 and XBONE has become prohibitively expensive from a CPU/GPU standpoint necessary to keep 3rd parties on board, and the market itself is shrinking as PC gaming grows even more. Unless perhaps game-streaming like Onlive is cheaper (and you can sell without the need for capable CPU/GPU without loss of graphical fidelity), I don't think Nintendo is ready to take the hits that Microsoft and Sony have to stay in the market. When you're fighting a company that can release a failed system (360) and then pay for every owner to ship it back to a facility, repair it to quality standard, and ship it back to their homes (at a 1.5 billion USD loss - more than the value of the entire XBOX brand at the time, to fix the red ring of death), you have to be more than just a gaming company.
I think the handheld market and MMO courting is the way to go. A device that is always online, always with you, and where interactions in the real world have effects in game. World of Warcraft coupled with enhanced streetpass functionalities. I also think they would do well to court PC third parties, which are often much less graphically intensive and openly looking for support (Neople's DFO, Crowfall, Telltale games, a sling of kickstarter projects, etc). Grab things other consoles haven't even stopped to look at, like GOG support console exclusivity. Court EA and Ubisoft and Lucasarts for older PC titles that never made it to consoles, or required a mouse or joystick and wouldn't work well with an analogue stick but might with a stylus or motion controls. Launching with Battlefield 2142, Crowfall, Sam and Max, and DFO would be amazing.
@Grumblevolcano
Still, even a sequel to that is a game, and the NX needs games to compete. No games = can't compete with the huge install lead the Xbox One and PS4 will have on it.
Plus I actually recall that game being somewhat fun.
@SplatFan Not really because a sequel to that game would confirm that Nintendo's going the gimmick route again which will put off most 3rd parties.
Based on the immense scale of games like MK8, SSB and Splatoon... the next home console WILL play WiiU games... it will just be a different hardware format (gamepad will be optional going forward?) and will probably run Android games in some fashion... probably will include significant handheld integration (3DS Successor) and potentially existing smartphone/tablet integration.
I don't get it. How is the Wii U still expensive? They did a price cut and its affordable compared to PS4 and ONE.
@Kage_88 #336 God—do I REALLY have to go through and respond to all those points one by one. Well here I go...
1. Just looking at Nintendo's games relative to most of the other big AAA games on the market today tells you that they aren't of the highest presentation and production value—all things being relative. You can see it with your own eyes. I mean games like Star Wars Battlefront, Fallout 4, Doom, Horizon Zero Dawn, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Ghost Recon: Wildlands, The Division, Forza 6, Need For Speed, Metal Gear Solid 5, Just Cause 3, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Uncharted 4 and even Unravel p*ss all over 99% of the stuff Nintendo is doing, in terms of presentation and production value, and they all utterly p*ss on Star Fox Zero in that respect, from everything I've seen. Yes; there's some Nintendo games that are of a generally pretty high standard in most areas, a couple are right up there, but at the same time some of them are pretty laughable by today's standards compared to the competition.
I mean just take a second and REALLY looks at the presentation and production value of a game like Uncharted 4 (as compared to pretty much ANY Nintendo game ever made):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO95h8-QDKk&list=FLPRNNGLAaYqhvf_xmif5RiQ&index=2
Also; just to be explicitly clear hear: I'm not saying Nintendo should have great presentation and production value at the cost of great underlying gameplay. I'm saying it should have great gameplay along with modern day presentation and production value—like many other companies have actually managed in these modern times. If Nintendo simply remade the original SNES Star Fox basically exactly as it was but with modern presentation and production values, which includes cutting edge graphics, then it would still be one of the best playing 3D shmups of all time. That's all I want.
2. The original Star Fox was like Nintendo's Star Wars back in the day. It was using cutting edge graphics tech, had stunning presentation and production value, and was just all-round epic for its time. What we have seen of Star Fox Zero thus far is actually pretty pathetic when it comes to presentation and production values. It's also so the opposite of epic. There will likely not be a single Xbox One or PS4 owner on the planet who would look at that and be seriously impressed. Also; I specifically referred to Star Fox Zero in its current state and not some hypothetical finished version, which may or may not be significantly better. I know what it's like in its current state because I have eyes and ears, just like you, and that is what I'm judging right now. What we have seen so far looks pretty d*mn crappy imo. "I can tell you this for pretty much a fact" means it's my opinion, obviously, but it's so close to being absolutely spot-on the money that it might as well just be labelled as fact already. There's literally hundreds of far more impressive games that litter the Xbox and Playstation graveyards of forgotten titles that no one talks about any more. How could any reasonable non-biased person look at Star Fox Zero (as it exists right now) with modern eyes and imagine it would fair any better if it weren't a known franchise already. It's basically totally forgettable right now and if it didn't have the Star Fox name slapped on it and wasn't on Wii U I don't think anyone would give a sh*t—not even Nintendo fanboys. That's how totally and utterly mediocre and underwhelming I'm saying it is, right now.
3. Nintendo still designs some great games, but every company has a handful of genuinely great games these days, so that's nothing to really hold up as some measure of how great whatever current-gen Nintendo console experience is. By most standards a console like the Wii U is pretty disappointing to the vast majority of gamers out there; or certainly not compelling enough for most of them to give a sh*t. If Nintendo goes for the same type of approach with NX then please feel free to just watch it flop.
4. 3D where you have to wear stupid glasses while looking at a screen in your room is a fad. VR, where you wear a headset to become fully immersed in what is basically a 360 degree wraparound world, isn't even in the same ballpark; despite a lot of things that are part of the 3D with glasses experience being an inherent part of VR too.
By the way; here's some cool VR examples for you just for fun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVRXukjKUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVRXukjKUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCAHY_SK79g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvoqPzBpvhY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vflhiq0TmaI
My opinion is that anyone who thinks AR is the superior choice over VR [specifically for gaming] simply doesn't understand the full potential of each technology properly. When it comes to gaming it's not even close imo—the near term versions of VR utterly destroy any near-term versions of AR.
5. See; here's the real problem, as I see it: People like you can't tell if something is going to genuinely improve gaming or not; like the 3D graphics example you used. People like me however could see from a billion miles away that nothing would ever be the same once 3D graphics tech was announced—and the reason is because people like me were envisioning graphics being just like that before the tech itself could ever actually achieve it; so we already knew what was necessary to make huge paradigm shifting leaps forward and it was just the tech that needed to catch up. The exact same thing goes for the whole 'glasses required 3D' vs VR—I doubt very few people ever dreamed of a future where we have to wear stupid glasses just to watch our normal movies with a slight 3D effect; hence why the glasses required 3D keeps flopping. They want 3D without the glasses. Even then just seeing a standard screen display but now with a 3D effect adds very little to the experience—it's certainly no revolution or paradigm shift in the movie industry. Many people however have dreamed of a future where we immerse ourselves in some sort of virtual world, and most of the intelligent people know that absolutely requires a VR headset at least for the time being. So one example is something we never really wanted in the first place, certainly not in the form we got it, and the other many people have been dreaming about for decades, even with the headset. If VR simply does what those demo videos have already shown but in a well marketed commercial product, then it's already going to be a paradigm shift for many gamers and indeed the industry as far as I'm concerned.
Incidentally; this is also the same type of thinking that allowed me to design basically the Wiimote years before Nintendo ever even talked about such a thing; and why most other people still say things like "No one could have seen or predicted how big a deal motion controls were going to be, how much of a game changer they were going to be, before Nintendo introduced the Wii". Well; some people actually could.
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2005/08/24/predicting-the-revolution-reader-submissions?page=6 (the designs by Kirk)
Also; yes, I'm sure there were many people who scoffed at the clunky early implementations of the likes of 3D graphics, but that's simply because they couldn't imagine what it might be like in the future and couldn't envision how amazing it would be if it were done well. The evolution and advancement in 3D was inevitable and all the problems were due to bad design rather than any kind of flaw in the notion of 3D graphics in and of itself. Unlike having to use stupid glasses to watch a 3D film, which is just a crap idea that wasn't designed to last, the underlying benefit of actually watching and playing with stuff rendered in 3D is inherently great and something everyone wants to do at a fundamental level; even if they don't realise it. Making 3D games as simple and intuitive as the best 2D games wasn't/isn't a limitation of 3D but a lack of understanding of how to best use 3D by many game designers, and especially back in the early days of gaming, where they made so many stupid mistakes because they just wanted to throw 3D at you, the shiny new thing, without really fully thinking about how to do that properly. Yes; Nintendo was one of the few companies who actually did largely do it right back in the day, with games like Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time (with its lock-on), and kudos to Nintendo for that.
Nintendo of today is however not quite the same company it was 20–30 years ago, as far as I can see. Or maybe it is, in the wrong way (as in it's stuck in the past), and maybe that's also part of the problem. This is why I worry about what it might do with NX.
If that all sounds arrogant or whatever then I'm sorry but it's simply the truth as I see it.
potato?
3rd parties do not sell well on Nintendo platform because N consoles are underpowered for some reasons (storage media/processing power) -> poor ports and because a lot of the fanbase are obsessed only about Nintendo games.
Saying so this NX smells so much of an android box to me -> N is aiming to smartphone casuals (this also explain the recent agreement with Dena) -> I smell failure fir this console... No hardcore gamer apart some Nintendo zealot will buy this.... Maybe is better, maybe in future we will get Nintendo games on every other platform so everyone will be happy, and I won t have to spend 300 euros for another Mario platformer anymore (console+game)
@awesome0 apologies - misread your post
@Kage_88 ah someone I completely agree with ... Well done
@Kirk yourist of games with these oh so important graphics are all not even out yet right?! On a system that is more powerful than a wii u?! You understand that better graphics doesn't equal a better game right?! FF 6 - most immersive game ever and in mine and many other people's opinion one of the best game ever ... The current FF games don't compare and are all style and little substance as everything moves to open world is the best so let's all do it...and had fifteen hours of FMV (old school wording).
VR is a fad, you can't call 3D a fad or the new NX thing a fad and not also call VR a fad. Appreciate thy are fixing the motion sickness issues which need to or for some people it's just not playable , it only works on certain games surely? I played a racing game and it was nice that I could look left and right but then I crashed because that's what happens when not watching the road... So it's all very good for Any first person games and in my opinion the huge FP gamers are also the generation that think graphics = better game.... I want assume your age but people's opinions are ver generational - and if you are happy with your shiny graphics and enjoy your games that is all that matters but the statement that better graphics make a better game is wrong. And what are these production values ?! Starfox could be amazing - fallout 4 could suck - doubtful but we don't know - we assume fallout will be good because it looks like the last one - which is why I assume starfox will be good because it looks like the last one ... Back to VR it so antisocial I don't like it but again I'm from an era where multiplayer was all your mates round not random people over the Internet (not knocking just different) - and yes it's immersive but that's it ? It doesn't offer any new ways to play does it?! And people don't want to have to move about playing games do they- the wii taught us that.
I predict VR won't last long....it's nice tech but thats all it is.... And yeah you are arrogant because you state your opinions as fact ;0)
I'm starting to believe that it doesn't matter how powerful Nintendos consoles are. 3rd parties would still skip on it. I think those times are gone for Nintendo, they are becoming more and more a niche product..
Quick scan through the comments and mainly the usual drivel and misinformation. More power means better games and more third party support. Nintendo doomed. Super shiny graphics are more important than gameplay. The NX will fail. Nintendo don't know what they are doing and never have. Gimmicks with gimmicks on top. Opinions presented as fact. Nintendo should go third party. Oh , and someone has claimed to have invented the Wii Remote years before Nintendo..........
@JaniN83 lol. That was certainly a jaw dropping announcement for the PS3.
@STAGGLY I understand that these games aren't out yet. I'm fully aware these systems are more powerful than Wii U. I understand that better graphics does not equal a better game. That being said; if you have two versions of the exact same game but one version has far superior presentation and production value; then the one with the far superior presentation and production value is going to be the better game of the two—all other things being equal. So, for example, I simply want a Star Fox game that plays as well as the SNES original but with current-gen worthy presentation and production value. I don't think I should have to compromise one element over the other, and a whole lot of current-gen developers have shown us all very clearly that we don't have to; on countless occasions.
I mean here's just one example of a game that is utterly stunning in terms of presentation and production value, imo, but it's also one of the most rewarding gaming experiences I've ever had (with beautifully crafted controls that are simple, intuitive, nuanced and fun, and great gameplay and 'level' design too); and it was created by a relatively small development team on a pretty small budget compared to what Nintendo should be affording the likes of a brand new Star Fox game:
https://youtu.be/aLP8vX_nwCM
VR is not a fad, even if the current versions of the hardware don't take off quite as expected, although I think they'll do well enough. VR IS the future of interactive entertainment, for a huge chunk of the potential audience out there, and even if gen-1 VR isn't quite the "dream", it will be in the future and sooner rather than later. There's no doubt about that in my mind whatsoever. In my opinion the only people that doubt this don't get how much of a fundamental paradigm shift VR is, or they're unable to see past the limitations of gen-1 versions of the hardware—which is a bit short sighted to be honest. To me, it's like those people who originally couldn't grasp that video games were going to be around forever and thought they were just a fad; or those people who couldn't see that 3D graphics were going to be the next paradigm shift in the industry when the early examples of 3D games first appeared—although 2D will always have its place too, even in modern gaming.
These kinds of VR experiences, once they are fully developed, are going to change the landscape of interactive entertainment forever. In some cases they do in fact offer fundamentally different ways of playing in video game worlds, and the technology itself certainly does:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPI_gNUFPVs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVRXukjKUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVRXukjKUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCAHY_SK79g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvoqPzBpvhY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vflhiq0TmaI
Also; just because you wear the headset on your head and look at the lenses in front of you eyes in first person, that doesn't mean you have to play every game in first person. You can in reality play basically every single type of game you've ever played before perfectly well in VR too, and in basically exactly the same way you've been used to for playing them however many years. I'd suggest it's worth doing a bit more than just replicating the current gaming experience directly in VR however, since the tech is capable of so much more, but that option is still there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB9jCEXVQDk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vY7flUfLv4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPQFKD-20Qw
Again; to be explicitly clear regarding the whole 'presentation and production value' thing: I'm not saying it's all about graphics and that graphics is the be all and end all. I'm saying that despite what some people think, presentation does actually matter, and it always has. I'm also saying we should absolutely be getting a very high level of both in this day and age from Nintendo, certainly with it's biggest and most beloved franchise games, like Star Fox. One does not have to come at the expense of the other and I'm not going to defend Nintendo when it's clearly just half-*ssing it.
I am arrogant but when I state my opinions as basically fact it's because I believe they basically are fact
PS: I'm 38; just for the record. So I've been around and playing games since pretty much the beginning. Just for your reference.
PPS. "Production Value", as I think of it, just means investing money, time and effort into making the experience to a very high standard in terms of things like presentation and graphics—cutting edge visuals, orchestrated music, full voice acting, well developed stories/plots (even for simple platform games, but all things being relative), fully developed and realised game worlds, and just a genuine sense of grandiose and epicness. A new game in the Star Fox franchise for example should leave gamers utterly blown away in terms of presentation and production value rather than largely underwhelmed, imo.
@locky-mavo Ya, your link shows the guy posting a fake made tweet by him saying it had good specs. Complete opposite
@kingofthesofa Hehehe wonderful comment
@Kirk VR is not gen -1 - that was the VR we had in the 90's and while I appreciate graphically it was no where near as good as it is now but it failed tondo anything - largely due to the tech at the time and cost etc but we have seen VR before and don't say it doesn't count - the Virtual Boy tried - you'll call it a fad of course but it tried and it failed - largely because of the tech but partly due to the fact it was not easy or healthy to use. I personally have no idea why anyone would want to play in VR - it's claustrophobic , it's nauseus, it's socially awkward and it is too low tech to be good enough and it's not the shift you claim it to be....I don't believe 3D is a fad nor that people make sub or movies and slap 3D on it to make them better -3D is here and now just standard like HD is... People don't like wearing things , people don't want to have to move around and people also won't spend the money in it - hardcore and some people interested will lap it up but not enough people will and therefore it will disappear ...in much the same way no one developed for strange game pad gameplay on the wii u or kinect... I don't think AR is the future either as its too limiting in terms of space etc and also has similar problems as VR ... And based on my experience of using an oculus rift it works bette when it's not actually a game and also has a moving chair with it or it's too distracting to be useful and the graphics are not good up to current gen by any stretch.... Again my opinion but that means it's a fact.
You keep mentioning starfox and although you understand it's not finished you decide to talk as though it is - this could change considerably until release - you have decided it has bad voice acting (surely slippy is supposed to sound bad?!?) , no script or good story crap music... The only thing you have seen is sub par graphics and again this is all you can comment on and again seem t think that matters . The SNES was the best console IMO but all mega drive owners would disagree - Nintendo make some of the best games ever made even now and the reason they don't break records anymore is because the world has changed to play station generation graphic obsessed FPS playing people that will never ever play a inferno game because they are deemed kiddie- the new starfox very well could come out as one of the best games ever but no one other than a ninty fan would buy it.... The world has changed and Nintendo know that and to say their games lack polish is wrong IMO - yoshi's wooly world looks amazing , has a load of lovely little touches - it's screams Nintendo , sola toon less so but its shakes ground for them but they have done well with it and created a Nintendo online shooter... The new zelda if it ever appears looked amazing at last years e3, xenoblades looks incredible... But no one will change....people don't.
Newbie here, hello everyone:)
Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in here as I've been watching this site for a while now but just lurked.
A lot of people on here are condemning a machine based on hearsay, of a random twitter poster who claims to have inside knowledge. Now surely a logical person would hold back on casting judgement until the actual manufacturer of said machine has actually announced what it is, and what it can do, which by all accounts will be in 2016, rather than tearing your hair and and damning it for the next 6 months+? If I'm wrong, tell me.
Also, this talk of third parties and getting them aboard. Why are they so important when at this moment in time they are struggling to get working content out on the current consoles? What's the point of making a machine on the level of the PS4 when third parties are barely getting their games to run properly on the PS4? They clearly don't even build their games around the hardware that's out there despite being given all the specs they need?
I think it's time that these developers winded their neck in and actually worked to the strengths of the consoles they're producing for rather than wasting resources creating something too powerful for the consoles that they can't be bothered to pare back and spend months and years patching to death. Until that day I'm seriously not that bothered about their involvement. Without these consoles they have no market.
@Kirk Star Fox Zero has only been in development for a year. Of course it's not going to have massive presentation and production values. As soon as the information came out at last year's E3 that the game was only going to have an 16-18 month development cycle, expectations should have dropped extremely low - no possible way anything other than an on-rails shooter that's basically a SF64 retread could come out of it.
What Nintendo NX probably is:
a "New WiiU lite" with some extra power and a developer-friendly hardware. Still works with every WiiU game.
The new system will have no Tablet Gamepad. But you can use a new3DS or a WiiU Gamepad/ Pro Controller for the controls. Extra Gimmick: When you use a new3DS as a Controller, you can play your DS/3DS/new3DS games on your TV screen.
what the NX should be:
a Steam Machine produced by Nintendo.
I just want one system from them. I want to play the likes of Pokemon on a TV. I think I'm on board with the whole hybrid portable and console thing, which of course would be weaker than a PS4; the battery would last 2 minutes if it were a portable PS4, lol. I hope it's at least more powerful than the WiiU. If it's not a hybrid and weaker than XB1, then yes, I'm going to be fuming.
@IceClimbers #362 And that's basically the problem—Nintendo clearly isn't giving this franchise the love and attention it deserves, and it really does show imo.
@STAGGLY #360 Yeah, ok; it's not the proper gen-1 of VR ever, or more specifically the first time anyone's ever tried some kind of VR, but it's the first generation of the current day VR hardware/platforms, which is what I'm talking about.
The Virtual Boy wasn't actually VR. It was just a headset with red and black stereoscopic display. It's honestly not the same thing at all. You couldn't even move the game view by moving your head, which is by most people's understanding a fundamental element in defining something as proper VR. It also had a fixed area of display that basically just floated like a screen in front of you, without any kind of wide field of view or proper wraparound effect. Again, this is not what people understand as proper VR. I mean you couldn't even view it without the unit sitting on a tabletop of some kind, which just goes against pretty much everything that VR is about.
Yeah; that's why there was basically a 50/50 split between the SNES and Genesis/Megadrive—both were genuinely brilliant machines for their times and both satisfied in pretty much every single area. It was just a matter of picking the one for you, but no one could realistically argue one fell short in any particularly important way.
Trust me; there's a whole load of people who want to play in VR.
3D WITH GLASSES is the fad.
VR is most definitely the future of interactive entertainment. Doesn't mean it will replace other options but just as we have both home consoles and handhelds, as well as stuff like mobile gaming and digital services like Steam, I have no doubt whatsoever we will have VR as another major "pillar" in the not too distant future.
Star Fox Zero is coming out in a few months and so based on what I've seen I'm simply saying it looks sh*t. Uncharted is probably coming out far later and already it looks an order of magnitude better polished in basically every single area. Just an example.
I SPECIFICALLY didn't say they lack polish (which could mean in terms of controls for example, as well as obvious stuff like presentation and graphics). I said they lack presentation and production value. Polish is not always the same thing. Neither is just graphics specifically either. That is why I said presentation and production value rather than polish and graphics for example. Just like in old reviews where Presentation was a different category from Graphics and Gameplay. I mean Super Mario 3D World has lovely graphics but it doesn't really have particularly impressive presentation and production value; compared to something like the new Ratchet and Clank on PS4 for example:
I mean just look at how more fully realised and fleshed out this world is than any level in Super Mario 3D World: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7vOzLEE_rw
The new Zelda does look very good. Still doesn't have proper voice acting for the NPC characters, which to me is a great example of the lack of presentation and production value I'm talking about in modern Nintendo games (although Link not speaking is fine), relative to the times and the expectations of gamers at the time.
Man, I'm writing essays in this comments section.
@WiltonRoots welcome aboard.
3rd party support and QC are two seperate issues. 3rd party support is important as illustrated by this past E3. Sony has very few 1st party titles coming out for the rest of the year but has amazing 3rd party games coming that will keep PS4 owners busy, contrast that wih Nintendo where they have a few big 1st & 2nd party games coming but little else.
Nintendo or MS & Sony just doesn't have the resources to support a console single handedly.
Nintendo barely have 3rd party support on N64, GCN, Wii, and Wii U do to a lack of power. You would think they would have learned their lesson by now.
@Kirk I know the VB isn't proper VR but it's still a cool little device and arguably was ahead of its time on some levels - I love playing Tetris 3D on it - but it's a pain with the headset...and if Morpheus and oculus can get a lightweight wireless machine that doesn't cost the earth then I'm more accepting that it will take off better but I still think it's not the future. 3D with glasses isn't a fad as its been round again and again and again ... 50s 3d anaglypgh , disneyworld having modern day type non anaglypgh movies in the 80s - a bit of resurgence in the nineties and now in a format that you can have at home - TVs come with it as standard surely and wipeout in 3D is very nice ... ive always like 3D though - I've been a 3D all the way up since the launch of the 3DS - I reckon my eyes hair work better with it :0) . Polish was what you implied - that's the problem with bandying around terms I guess (both guilty). For me a game should be fun to play or draw me into a story...Nintendo games always have little touches and hidden moments that lack elsewhere - I don't play uncharted so I can't comment ... And I find I play less and less 3rd party because they all have merged into the same thing... I want platformers , I want 2d fighters but street fighter 5 just doesn't excite me ... I want turn based RPGs that have an amazing story above anything else and a good battle system.... I guess I want the past - and that's my fault perhaps for not evolving but I don't see why I can't still have that ?! I'm excited for Uka-laylee as its the rare sequel I never got , and it gives me hope that a resurgence of 3d platformers might come from it.... I guess too many IPs exist now that I never really played and so don't bother with the sequel and so I stay with Nintendo out of loyalty and because they are the sequels I want to play....I just watched and commented on the starfox video posted recently in this site and I really can't see why people are bashing it .... More people bought a ps4 than an Xbone and a lot of that was all the DrM rubbish and Sony played it well - neither system
Had any games and don't really now that aren't shared IPs or remakes / sequels form th least gen (Nintendo also is this I know) so I'm not bothered about them... I also just don't play consoles as much anymore - my 3DS is always with me and I have played that machine more than even the SNES when I was a kid because it suits my lifestyle .,,, I still think Nintendo only has its old fans and isn't going to get new ones .... But then if the NX turned out to be super VR ... Maybe people will buy it? I always believe in Nintendo because they gave us so much and no reason why they can't again- we've lost third party forever I reckon so we hair have to see... I still don't agree with you on production values and still don't fully appreciate what you are trying to say... But NX cannot compete - Microsoft can barely compete with Sony and I think Nintendo know this and I'm hoping they change the way we play again in a good way ... What that is I don't know - but I do know that having assassins creed and gta on my NX would not in anyway bother to me .... Or a lot of people...
@STAGGLY #369 With a few tweaks the VB could have been pretty special; but if you think about it kinda suffered from many of the same issues I think a lot of modern Nintendo consoles also suffer from—it was a potentially revolutionary idea that was just never fully executed/realised or taken full advantage of.
Something being done and flopping multiple times over the years doesn't mean it's not a fad. It just means there might be something worthwhile in the underlying idea, which is obviously the 3D part, but they keep doing it wrong. I'm not saying 3D itself is a fad. I mean VR is obviously 3D by its very nature. I'm saying 3D with GLASSES REQUIRED is the fad.
Well my bad for being confusing about the terms but I know Nintendo polishes a lot of its games to a high degree, yet at the same time even many of its most polished games lack a particularly impressive level of overall presentation and production value by modern standards.
@Kirk regarding zelda NPCs not talking - why should they? Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it ? I don't think this is because they lack production values - it's just a choice. And people would just have a problem with the voices of beloved characters nowadays anyway....
@Kirk it also gave people headaches :0) and all it will take to hurt VR is someone having Ann epileptic fit a week after Morpheus comes out that has nothing to do with it but the daily mail jumps on it and it could hurt it - much like the VB failed in the U.S. - partly through the press...touch screen on the da that pretty much came before tablets was a great update to playing - motion controls certainly shifted lots of machines and became a bandwagon the others jumped on but have sort of died and the gamepad idea was made before tablets took over so it's hurt but agree they completely failed to utilise it well - zombie u used it well .... That's about it :0) ... I just think there is very little further we can go on graphics ... And without a 80 inch 4k screen you wouldn't even notice the difference ... We've run out of ideas and most things in all media are rehashes remakes sequels and the like so if something doesn't shake it up soon I think it's doomed anyway ... I still claim
VR shakes it up like motion controls at best and so something has to happen... And I don't know what that is not should I - I just hope Nintendo do!
@NTELLIGENTMAN I'm pretty sure the N64 and GameCube were the most powerful consoles in their respective gens.
@STAGGLY #371 Again; this goes to the presentation and production value I'm talking about. Zelda can and will likely be very polished but in terms of modern presentation and production value, most people now expect to see [hear] NPC characters with proper voices, and especially with these games that are like full virtual worlds, as it were. It's partly a "design" choice but imo it's also a deliberate choice by Nintendo to not spend the time and money to do it right. It's taking the easy option out and counting on the most loyal fanboys to stick up for it, as far as I'm concerned. That's skimping on presentation and production value imo and all it does is makes Nintendo's games look like "baby-step" games compared to the standards most gamers have come to expect on the other current-gen consoles. If the voices were done with respect then I think people would actually really enjoy them; and like I said—you don't have to give Link a voice, since he represents the player. Give the other characters decent voice acting though. I mean it's 2015.
@STAGGLY #372 Graphics can go a whole order of magnitude further than where they are at today, and going into full 3D VR is one step in evolving them just beyond the pure display quality too—but graphics have a long long way to evolve yet. I mean we're still far far away from true photo-realism in many areas, such as the lip-syncing on character, pop-in and draw distance, level of detail when up close...and even without making games photo realistic we can still push them order of magnitudes further in terms of just pure artistry. I mean where are the games that looks like moving, living and breathing oil paintings; or that actually look as good as the very best 2D and 3D Disney/Pixar animations...
Graphics will continue to improve for a long time to come and in VR that's only going to take things even more to the next level.
I don't know who that Liam robertson is, but I hate him. That nx story is beginning to have its own life. Can people not wait until 2016 then we get more information. NX this, nx that not powerful.
@Ralizah They were. I don't understand this whole "Nintendo always had underpowered consoles" conversation.
The NX is the next generation, they have to make it more powerful than the PS4! It doesn't have to be as powerful as the PS5, but it should at least be ahead of the PS4.
@Kirk Your talk about "presentation and production values" is PR speak for bloated budgets, which translates to games selling millions and still flopping because they can't make their money back.
I agree with the people saying the NX should be more straightforward than recent Nintendo consoles. Let's be honest, many developers don't even really know what the Wii U is because it's too gimmicky. The NX should be a simple console with a simple controller that puts the emphasis on power and games.
@Kirk If you want Zelda to have voice acting, then I want that voice acting to be complete Hylian gibberish with translations on the bottom screen to act as text boxes. If I want to play a compelling, living, breathing environment that is, essentially a different world, I want it to be a complete immersion, go big or go home.
@NTELLIGENTMAN PS2 was the weakest of the consoles on its time, the GC was stronger, it wasn't power that mattered but the hardware, derp.
@Grumblevolcano Hahaha, that could work too!
All I know is Nintendo is one of the most unique and innovative companies in the world so I'll be there day one with NX regardless of specs. I know Nintendo is cooking up something awesome and fresh
Its all rumors of course, but if its true (only 150 Dollar/Euro, and not much more powerful then Wii u) then it could just be a Wii u, without the Gamepad. That would be so much fail.
@IceClimbers #379 No; that's how you think of it. That's not what I'm talking about in the slightest.
@WinterWarm wii was a sucess
My assumption is that it could mean power consumption.
Nintendo is constantly worried about having a console that needs too much juice to run.
For many reasons, but one aspect is keeping it cool.
But if my theory is correct. the NX will be a handheld that can act as a home console.
Which is probably an idea they got from consumers who kept thinking the Wii U tablet could be taken on the go.
Another idea is that, Nintendo's handhelds tend to do better, and the home consoles do so so....
So if they combine the 2, it could mean a bigger better market.
I mean, it IS getting to a point where some tablets and even smart phones can hook to TVs in some form or fashion.. allowing games you play on those devices to be shown on a TV.
Maybe Nintendo plans to sort of go with that, but go at it from a different angle.
All i know.. is i'm slowly losing faith in them..
Specially with the news that Nintendo did not want to publish devils third in the US.. which is F'ing ridiculous..
All we can really do is sit.. and wait.. and see.
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