Technologically, the world is busier and noisier than it's ever been before. So many gadgets and screens demand our time and loyalty, from smart TVs with hundreds of channels and streaming apps, to smartphones and tablets and, of course, game systems. Those with a decent amount of spare cash that are anxious to keep up with trends are even browsing the web and playing games on their watches.
It's a rather different world to that of 2006, when the Wii arrived and dominated the gaming scene alongside the increasingly ever-present DS. It may not seem long ago, but this was before the iPhone, before the time when tablets were even conceived as a mainstream device, and when HD TVs were still a bit of an expensive luxury. In that time, and with the Wii Shop being Nintendo's first steps in download marketplaces, the Virtual Console structure was absolutely right.
Unless you were a collector or a PC owner with a bit of nous and an inclination to - naughtily - download ROMS, the Virtual Console was an eye-widening and exciting development. As a kid that had grown up on Sega and PC gaming until the N64 it was also a revelation for this writer - hundreds of pounds were eventually spent on a download collection of classics, both mainstream and more obscure. The pricing was reasonable in the context of those times, Nintendo had every right to apply sensible value to this retro content, and it was an integral part of the Wii experience.
Yet now, in 2015, not a great deal has changed about the Virtual Console. The problem? The world of digital entertainment and access has evolved almost beyond comprehension. We have a ridiculous range of entertainment options, some of them that have sunk to the bottom of the pricing pool and want to keep going. There are more distractions, less time, and a lot of low-cost forms of entertainment fighting for our attention.
None of this is Nintendo's fault, and as we've argued before there are merits and points to admire in the company's gradual evolution. While it experiments in free-to-play, DLC and pricing promotions, there's still an overall ethos of promoting quality and fair pricing. Yet when it comes to its Virtual Console efforts and how it utilises its retro heritage, perhaps there's an argument for Nintendo being a little more bold in its approach - to shake up how it promotes and shares that legacy.
That may not be a universally popular argument - we recently ran a series of polls that didn't bring firm consensus. When it came down to the libraries and platforms on the current options - Wii U and 3DS - many voted for middling categories that were either relative pleased or slightly disappointed, in each case acknowledging that the current options are reasonable. The current offerings certainly aren't disliked in any big way, but don't seem to be truly excelling, either.
The questions that interested us the most for this article related to pricing and potential new ideas. A majority of you felt that the pricing was either a "bit off" or "all wrong". Yet that tied into our following question on which idea for a future change of the Virtual Console was most appealing. Nearly half the votes want more of the same but at lower prices, essentially, reflecting the fact that there can be weariness in paying $10 for an N64 download, as an example.
Yet it's in fresh ideas where we think consideration should be given. As we've implied above, a Virtual Console model that was ideal in 2006 is somewhat old-fashioned now, and there's scope for Nintendo to do more than simply drop prices. With the company trying to force itself into the public conscience more through upcoming smart device apps in partnership with DeNA, and its undoubted continuing efforts with its own hardware, looking at ideas from elsewhere could allow that rich history to have a greater influence on the mainstream.
There's little argument that, among dedicated Nintendo fans, the current structure is just fine, albeit with quibbles over price. A glance at the all-time best-sellers across both eShop stores shows that, with classics topping the charts or dominating the top 20 - in many cases there have been promotions and deals at different points, yes, but there's an inescapable reality that, as Nintendo gamers, we want more of the best retro titles.
Considering that success in the eShop charts, then, it's perhaps odd that we're suggesting a change. Yet the argument is that, with each passing year, the lustre fades on each successive release. It's a slight oddity that there's hype around N64 games on Wii U, for example, when there are plenty of them in the Wii Mode; it's more understandable in PAL regions, perhaps, as the Wii served up inferior 50HZ versions of games in those regions. Overall, though, we'll surely see the appeal of the current model and trickle of releases dwindle with each passing year. Established fans will already have bought many classics multiple times and, for the reasons highlighted above, less dedicated consumers may baulk at the pricing.
There are sources of inspiration elsewhere for the ideas we suggested in the polls. First off we have bundles, an area still relatively untapped in the dedicated console space. Yet in the world of PC gaming through Steam, and through independent business like the Humble Bundle, it's relatively common. Just this past weekend a top-seller on Steam has been a huge bundle of Star Wars games (due to May 4th, geddit?), and publishers often throw together a mix of old and new games together. They're instant backlog builders, but when tapping into nostalgia or curiosity it can be enticing to see familiar classics with names that are promising but unfamiliar experiences.
This could help with Virtual Console games in the future. Sure, Super Mario World and Earthbound will always sell, but when dealing with individual budgets and eShop funds there are excellent but lesser names that surely pass a lot of players by. Aggressive bundling based on themes or publishers can get more games onto more systems. Profits may be minimal, but we're talking about discontinued retro games here; building brand familiarity, driving traffic to the eShop, keeping players busy on their Nintendo consoles - those are the benefits.
Our other suggestion, which we've floated before for the eShop as a whole, is a subscription model. In the current generation PlayStation Plus has actually become an Xbox Gold - it's required for online play with the PS4 - but nevertheless drives huge interest every month. In exchange for a sensible annual fee there are free games every month, and it's a formula that works.
Nintendo could take alternative approaches, of course. A monthly subscription where you have greater choice over your new content for the month is one possibility. Affordability would be the key, however, once again accepting that it's less about the size of profits from these retro downloads, and more about the broader picture.
Nintendo's dabbled in aspects of this before, and there's scope for the Virtual Console - and eShop in general - to be part of the incentive in whatever service replaces Club Nintendo. That's an additional factor that can be expanded, as the monthly Club Nintendo rewards in North America - downloads in exchange for coins - always prompted huge interest. If Nintendo can combine a fresh approach - either subscription-based, bundles, or both - with ideas it's already mastered, it can do more with its retro content.
At present the Virtual Console is, in this writer's opinion at least, in danger of becoming a fan-service alone, and one with diminishing returns in every generation. Those with a passion for the big N flowing through their veins evidently still splash out on these experiences, but we doubt the appeal gets beyond that core - credit is due for releases like NES Remix, however, in shaking up how we enjoy older games.
Yet as we've seen in viral media, right down to boxing promotional skits recently, the power of Nintendo's past is undeniable. The company needs to turn that pop culture influence into actual interest in its current offerings, though, and in a modern world that perhaps necessitates a change in direction.
Whether in the coming months, or as far off as the 'NX' generation, we feel it's time for Nintendo's Virtual Console goals to shift. Take the focus away from extracting every dollar possible out of loyal fans, and target widespread appeal to grab the attention of millions more. Nostalgia can be a powerful marketing tool for the present, and Nintendo has all of the ingredients to succeed.
Comments 110
The VCs lowering sales would be inevitable with its current install base. More games both niche and mainstream need to be made available and lower prices. The NX won't be sold on the basis of its VC. If the console sells well it is inevitable its VC sales will increase.
InB4 modernize
The prices do seem a bit high considering the age of some of the games. I just wish we would get a huge discount for Wii U games if we already own the 3DS version, such as only having to pay a dollar and you get the Wii U one too! I am not fond of shelling out more money for the same game on a different system unless it is reasonable and not at full price.
There needs to be an overhaul. Trickling out one game a week if we're lucky (and us 3DS owners are not lucky) and at those prices are ridiculous. Most of us already have them on the Wii or other various past consoles (GBA, or even have them on the original consoles)... so even an "upgrade" fee can feel like a slap in the face. To have to buy two copies of the same game (one for Wii U and 3DS, like SMB3) is ridiculous. They need to freshen up the selections, make the menu in which to search for them more appealing, put the releases out more often, and come up with a better pricing scheme.
Maybe do polls to see what games get votes instead of always offering us the same games over and over again. There has to be more obscure NES and SNES Nintendo-published games out there that people want that have not been offered. What happened to the Import VC that was present on the Wii, for instance?
And for God's sake, if VC is available on the next console, don't make me pay for the same game for a third/fourth time.
The pricing is too uniform in my opinion. Sure paying 6 euro's for Links Awakening may be worth it. Paying 5 euro's for the super mario bros 3 may be worth it. But having to pay that same price for stuff like ice climbers, the original donkey kong and excitebike and it becomes pretty clear that the current pricing system needs to be thrown out of the window. It doesn't really encourage me to explore Nintendo's past at all.
Personally I'm against the VC becoming modernized. But after reading this article, I'm seeing the problems, with the price scale, the value to the price of the game is not always adding up. So I do believe lower prices should be implemented. Also I see your point ericwithcheese2, how can I import my VC games to my next console, has the console generations escalate. Ultimately the way Nintendo handles the sale of the storage of retro game downloads, needs a drastic change.
" It's a slight oddity that there's hype around N64 games on Wii U, for example, when there are plenty of them in the Wii Mode."
I've said this for a while, albeit for a different reason than why you're saying it. I think it's crazy that fans are unwilling to go to Wii mode to play N64 VC games. You think it's a sign that the service is outdated.
Meh, I think it might be time for Ninty to give up on the VC at this stage. Prices too high, emulation is going no where no matter that ya think or say about it, and I would think now, the money they make from a VC sale isn't worth the hassle overall.
They should just do a one time massive release on disk with loads of nes/snes/n64 etc on one disc for the WiiU and one for a he 'NX' and so on. I'd buy that every gen from here in out and no waiting around.
But at the end of the day there are loads of ways to play your old systems, be it on the original system, on a pc or table with a wireless nes/snes controller that work really well, or a dedicated game tablet with buttons.
It's a losing battle sadly.
What are they supposed to do? Besides prices being too high, the only thing missing is more games. Not much to complain about.
I figured I'd say that I don't find VC games expensive. I mean, for god's sakes, they're discounting them at least once a month, maybe twice. I just got Kirby's Dreamland 3 for less than ÂŁ3.
@icedude545 how is a follow up article to a poll click bait? You guys seriously use that term way to much around here.
Just give us games. That's what we want. Mainly a wider variety of consoles in the virtual console. On the 3DS in particular. Game Boy, Game Boy Color, NES, and SEGA Dreamcast. Not a very wide selection there. What about SNES and GBA?
The only things VC needs are slightly lower prices, more releases (of games people actually care about, hopefully) and GC games in the future.
Also, where's the Pokemon games on Virtual Console, Nintendo? If trading is the problem, just make them into 3D Classics with local wireless connection.
An other reason why I stopped buying games on VC. I have to rebuy it every time when I move to a new console. That's not cool. There should be at least some sale for fans who are registered.
The prices and low amount of games are the only real problems and there really isn't any way to actually "modernize" VC.
I hope the club Nintendo replacement will regularly offer virtual console titles because there was several I would have passed on otherwise. I would like to see sales or promos like cross buy or BOGO sales as well
They just need to release more games. I will never pay for a subscription. They also need to pursue licenses.
Virtual console is fine but needs refinements like more platforms more games and more screen options.
The SNES games have no filters or anything and generally look worse than on my old Wii console using a CRT tele
It would be nice to see a overhaul. I am all for it, But in the end all we do care about is more games. More 3rd parties on board. I am to talking you Squareenix you have those games in Japan. Turbographics, Sega, master system, genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, GameCube, and Arcade. A cross buy for 3DS and forheavens sake, 1 game a week is just garbage. I would pay $10 for a Illusion of Gia but would pay $2 for pinball. 3ds needs love too.
Set up a streaming service for VC. It overcomes emulation problems and would be playable across devices.
It's simple. Release games more often, and at lower official prices. And start with the Gamecube games already.
By the way, I HATE that boss from Metroid Fusion...
Some games definitely worth $3-5 on 3DS, like the three Zeldas and Wario Land series (excluding Super Mario Land which is a ripoff even at that price). SNES, NES and GBA games are laughably overpriced for some weird reason. Why Earthbound is more expensive than any other game in the catalog? Because of cartridge rarity?
Sometimes I wish I could pay like $40 for an emulator and run the ROMs I want. Some will never show up because of copyright issues.
Spell check your article and your title, dude,
Defend nintendos handling of their virtual console all you want, but with the greatest library of games, nintendo should be releasing more vc games. If only they released as many as on the wii, not to mention those vauge mentions of gamecube being on the wii u vc when the wii u first came out. Ive always been a devoted nintendo fan. The way theyve handled the wii u vc has made me a bitter old man.
I'm fine with how the Virtual Console works at the moment, just release more games and maybe have a discount when you buy a VC game on your Wii U if you already own it on your 3DS and vice versa.
If we look at the data in the Poll 47% found it disappointing for WiiU and 50% 3DS as per Virtual Console. The data does suggest some change is needed. This is a talking point article people don't hate the messenger if you disagree. He has an opinion just like you. The data suggests that Nintendo needs improvement.
@Captain_Gonru I'm not too lazy to go to the Wii Mode but the problem is that I don't have the Wii Classic Controller only the Wii U pro Controller which means I'm not able to play these games.
What I want from the VC: Square Enix games, Bomberman, maybe a smaller pricing but thats not that important and a bigger variety of Games.
As others have stated, the past couple articles are incredibly loaded. I'm not satisfied with VC because it's so barren, but it's not that I think it should change in format. The biggest thing is not being able to upgrade all my Wii VC titles off the bat. Fine, charge the small fee, but this should've been built into the VC system off the bat, a way to easily make it multiplatform. Nintendo is always way too short term with how they do things. Having to wait for a trickle feed to get the same games is silly. Yes, I have them on Wii Mode but some of us like the convenience of Off TV Play (doesn't count if you need a controller in addition to the gamepad) and restore points. And what, will the next system have a Wii Mode within a Wii U Mode? Doubt it. We've reached an age where we should be able to transfer our content to each new system. It may be whining but if we're stating what's wrong with the VC service, this is it. We have to wait for the same games to drip feed again and again and actually have less supported systems. Worst of all, the releases just seem to get slower, and the Wii U won't seem to ever even reach the same number of titles as the Wii. This is not progress. Before they can think of changing up the service, they should, ya know, actually try improving the current service.
While I definitely think that there need to be things like more consoles, more frequent releases, and cross-buy offered on VC, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about pricing. It is, to a degree, a matter of relativity; I have no problem paying ten dollars for something like Paper Mario, but asking for even five dollars for, say, Urban Champion is silly. But I don't think a universal price drop really makes sense.
It probably sounds weird, but making games to cheap really does devalue them, or at least it does to me. Of the many, many games I've got for next to nothing in Humble Bundles, Steam sales, and the like, I've probably only played through a small handful. The same can be said for Playstation Plus. I'm much more likely to appreciate and give time to something that I have to pay more than the value of a cup of coffee to get, and I don't think classic games should be exempt from that.
I almost think that something like the Criterion Collection might be interesting for Nintendo to explore. Offer select, curated, or heavily requested titles at a uniform premium (probably not more than $15, since the service would still have to be digital, and still make pricing dependent on platform, like the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray). Make them fully functional (none of this removal of features in GBA and DS games nonsense), load them with features and extras (full customization of controls, more emulator-esque options than just a single save state, dev commentary, interviews, articles, etc.), really make them enticing. While that may be really contrary to the way the market currently works, it would do something that the current VC mostly doesn't do and that the market certainly doesn't do: treat the games as something worthy of respect.
That wouldn't really solve the problems with quantity on VC, nor would it be likely to gain much in the way of new blood. But the rush to the bottom that goes on in the modern gaming market serves to really devalue the great games that have come out in the past. That much might be inevitable though, in which case I'd probably just want more of what the VC does now; more games, more consoles, more often (but, for all that's good in the world, give us cross-buy, please). Preserve what we can, while we can, when we can.
you seem dissapointed that people doesn't agree with you. don't be a cry baby
I am embittered at Nintendo's eShop for some of its crucial mistakes:
1. Releasing GBA and DS games on Wii U instead of the 3DS.
2. Releasing NES games on 3DS. I think it would have drawn more focus to the Wii U if NES games were exclusively on Wii U.
3. An overall lack of focus. Nintendo just keeps jumping from system to system. For instance, why on earth has North America not received a Wii game on the eShop for over 3 months? And yet Europe gets constant releases of great Wii games, all of which I would easily throw down $20 for. But no, WarioWare: Touched is more important somehow.
4. The obvious slow release schedule and lack of sales. I personally don't mind the official pricing for each system, but more sales would be nice.
Nintendo needs to get a grip and realize what their consumers want.
they need to give the 3ds virtual console some games and get more 3rd parties in to the virtual console japan has turbo and 22 game gear games v. 16 for us and work with square to get there games in the west
this is the japan v. west in virtual console games this is the 3ds
game boy 68 v. 47
NES 111 v. 65
turbo 4 v. 0
game gear 22 v.16 and there is no reason why we have not got pokemon pinball, wario blast,f1 race, pokemon green,red,etc.also sonic chaos,sonic spinball and why have we not got some japan only games like they did on the Wii and no cross buy on nes at least and no game boy or GBC on wii u or game gear and no GBA and SNES on 3DS(I can understand about ds games) and n64 on new 3ds
I recently bought 30 Sega Genesis games during a Steam sale for less than 38¢ apiece. And these aren't the bargain bin dwellers of the 90s, either. I got Vectorman 1 and 2, Gunstar Heroes, Shining Force 1 and 2, Phantasy Star 2, 3, and 4, Alien Soldier, Dynamite Heady, Landstalker, all three Streets of Rage games, and more--again, for less than 38¢ each. It's hard to argue in favor of Virtual Console prices when deals like that are available.
@medalofhonorfan I would love to see Xenoblade Chronicles on the eshop but I know that won't happen. I'm not really interested in getting a new 3ds to be able to play the remake when I would prefer it a console.
On a positive note, I'm glad nintendo put Metroid Prime Trilogy on there as it was a steal at the intro price of $10.
I've tried to use the playstation store, and it is absolutely abysmal compared to the eshop
All we really need is a crossbuy system and cheaper prices. Let me put it this way, if you were given the choice to buy either a PS1 game on the PS3 or an NES game on the Wii U Virtual Console, with both costing the same amount, you'd most likely go with the former, regardless of your opinions towards Nintendo or Sony.
@WalupeachyTime
If the choice was between a PSone game on PS3 or a NES a game on Wii (not Wii U, which is a better analogy since they are of the same generation), I would choose the NES game on Wii every time.
Why? Because that PSone game doesn't transfer to PS4. But the NES game DOES transfer to Wii U. Not only that, but it qualifies me for a discount if I wish to upgrade to a newer, better version which includes off-TV play (a fairly substantial 80% off discount at that).
One has cross-buy with a handheld, the other has cross-generational transfer + upgrade discount. Both are fair deals though.
@faint It is, though.
I'm a loooong-time casual gamer. I love buying eShop games on 3DS and Wii U because I can try classic games like Earthbound that I missed at the time as well as interesting indie games that are cheap enough that I'll give them a shot.
While I do support Nintendo in not wanting to devalue their software, the reality is that I'll stall over paying ÂŁ17.99 ($30) for Sin & Punishment 2 when I can buy something like Vanquish for my PS3 for ÂŁ4 (and on disc too, so it's not gone forever if my machine dies). Fair or not, that's the competition for my money these days. There are lots of good deals on eShop if you're prepared to wait but I still think Nintendo could bring more people into the fold (and it's a great fold) if they were more realistic or had better promotions. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think VC is priced to lure the casual gamer so much as the fanatic, and this is a family-friendly machine on which young kids should be able to explore old titles and their parents agree to their impulse to do so.
As Thomas argues in the article above, it would cater for the non-diehards who want to try a bit of this and a bit of that, keep them coming back to the system more often, and generally evangelise about Nintendo. Either way, I hope they don't drop VC; it's a great way to explore their library, games you never owned, and gaming history itself.
@BLPs You make some fair points. I can understand how the comparison between a PS1 and an NES is unfair in the context of superior specs and you're absolutely right in saying that the quality of the game at hand is the main factor. Frankly, I should have paid more attention to these facts before blindly posting my opinion. However, two of your points can also apply to the Virtual Console NES titles, namely the poor quality of the port and that they don't age well. But I'd imagine personal opinion coupled with the quality of the games would be the main deciding point, like you said. Let's just agree I posted something fairly selfish and move on, shall we?
@BLPs You put it better than I could have.
Polls are fine.
Editorials are fine.
Polls being tailored and referred to this way is bad form.
Any subscription service of any kind would completely kill the VC.
@mrchills Nintendo has to stretch out releases as much as they do, because most third parties don't have any interest to publish their games on the VC- especially in the West. That's also the reason why Nintendo didn't add all systems immediately to the service. They only started offering GBA games when most of their own NES and SNES back catalog has been released.
Frankly, I'd just be happy if the VC went the emulator route. Let customers know that the emulations might not be "perfect" but adapt one of the best emulators (like SNESoid, NESoid, etc.) on the market and make it as solid as possible. Then give users a menu of every possible Nintendo title and let them go at it. Offer it as a subscription, "all-you-can-eat" service and I'd be there on day one.
I don't quite get Nintendolife's motivations for pushing for an answer that people don't want to give, People like the eShop. Its fine as it is they just need to have a system where we don't reset back to nothing when wii 3 shows up.
@BLPs I think the poll was skewed towards Thomas' argument and not very open to other arguments especially in the 'I have no idea option'.
I personally would like to see the same eshop purchasing format with a complete library of previous first/second party games and more third party.
Also an account based system that is accessible on all future Nintendo systems be it handheld or home console.
@DarthNocturnal
Ya, in fact there aren't even any PSone games on PS4. The Vita and PS3 had fairly good compatibility- about 50% of any PSone/PSP game you bought on PS3 could be downloaded on Vita. That is, if you could get it to run properly. A lot of the games were "unofficially supported cross buy" meaning sure, you can download it but there's no guarantee it's fully compatible. And still other games purchased on PS3 could not be downloaded directly on Vita, but could by doing a workaround connecting to the PS3. Games like Jeanne d' Arc, though I do believe they've fixed that since I bought it.
What @TheRegginator said.
Another day, another VC item. I agree with the first comment: Just lower prices and more games.
Oh, and a system that lets you keep games forever!
Simple. Time to make all Nintendo first party games available in the virtual console. If the game is more than one generation old. i.e.. Gamecube games, then they all be available for free on any Nintendo system. If Nintendo want to make serious $$$ and rule the roost this would be the way to do it. When you buy the system you buy all the virtual console games too.
Even if Sony or Microsoft did the same thing on their console they haven't got anywhere near the level of quality or retro factor that Nintendo does.
@TheRegginator Agreed. I wish I could thumbs up his comment.
All that needs to be done is lower the prices. It's as simple as that. But then again, the games that aren't exactly reasonably priced are ones I don't want like Excitebike, Ice Climber, Super Metroid, etc.
VC has become largely irrelevant to me. What I've really wanted has been a few NED and SNES games-I've never owned the former and the video output died on the latter. Otherwise, unless it's like Super Mario Advance on GBA or the Ratchet and Clank collection on Vita giving me console on the go, I've got newer games, games that will be classics someday, to play.
They'll modernize the accounts, have us purchase to that account and then sign in on forthcoming hardware. We'll probably have to pay a premium somewhere, either to get online or built into hardware/software pricing.
But VC as a brand, that's dead. And it should be. File your older titles in your digital storefront with the new ones. They'll sell fine. No need for their own portico.
I think the pricing is ok there just needs to be more choice, Nintendo has a great catalogue of games but variety is the spice of life and there's a serious lack of third party games. The old Wii was almost a one stop shop for retro gamers it had so many different games and consoles, it's the main reason I bought a Wii U but unfortunately it hasn't been improved upon. The Wii U VC isn't bad but it's just not as good as I hoped it would be.
@Ferret The PS3 has decent library of classic console/arcade games. I think you downplay the competition a bit.
Things must age differently in Europe because here in America there is no reason to think the virtual console is "going out" or "needs improvement" As for the prices, if you guys are paying more for things then I guess maybe that's something that should be addressed but $5 for an NES game is just fine.
Nintendo's Virtual Console is an outdated, out of touch mess. It's sort of indicative of the way they've been handling most things the past few years.
1) If I buy Super Mario Bros. on my Wii U, I can't play it on my 3DS without having to buy it again. This is unacceptable in this day and age, where cross platform purchases have been the standard on other platforms for years.
2) If someone steals said Wii U, I would have to jump through a significant number of hoops to get that downloaded game back, if I convince Nintendo to give it back at all. Having an account based system would solve that, another thing Nintendo is way behind the times with. Like, almost a decade behind the times with.
3) With the way Nintendo prices their games, you'd think they're living in a fantasy world. No way in hell is an NES game like Balloon Fight or Donkey Kong worth $5 in 2015. There are iOS games that have more depth than those games do, and those are available for a buck or less! Nintendo has a valuable catalog of games, but they need to have an ounce of humility when it comes to their less awesome ones.
I think Nintendo missed a huge opportunity by not combining the Wii Shop channel with the eShop from the beginning. We could have had the over 300 VC titles from day 1 and played them like we do the Wii VC games from the Wii U menu. Some Wii U owners may not even know about the Wii Shop Channel in Wii mode, and Nintendo is missing out on sales that they could have had if the two shops were combined. It also would have been nice to let us use the Gamepad for Wii VC and WiiWare games too, but this is more easily forgiven. The lack of a VC at the Wii U's launch was the biggest reason I didn't buy one at launch.
@BLPs If your happy with 1st party titles then your covered. ps3&360 have released more Saturn,dreamcast, and arcade titles than nintendo.Sure, nintendo has a impressive back catalogue, but wiiu is missing several awesome games like Samurai Showdown 2 that have been on said consoles for nearly a decade. It's Nintendo that limits the virtual console, not the otherway around.
My only thing is that if I'm going to pay for a game, I'm going to download it/own it. I have a PS4 and the "free" games are free as long as you continue paying, and once your subscription runs out they are rendered useless. Basically, its just an indefinite rental for which you are chsrged monthly/yeadly. The only reason I even bother with them is becauss I have to subscrive to play online anyway. But I won't rent games, I won't pay to play from a library. If they go to a Netflix style based virtual console, then I'll just say it now, I'll play the originals or ROMs if I want save states.
$5 to play a game for as long as my system lasts (or longer if they turn VC into a platform) and even beyond the online life of the system is the only way I'll invest money into digital versions of old games.
@Koz PS4&Xb1 will not limit digital purchases accessibility to a renewed account forever. I can access my 360 digital purchases when my gold account expires, and it was not that way to begin with. Nintendo is in this industry to make money just like the other guys.I will not re-pay to transfer my wiiu vc games to the next system.
My concern is that the VR as a concept seems to be just Nintendo orientated now. On the Wii you have games from Lucasarts, Square, Shiny and consoles from Sega, SNK and NEC. So I think there is a notion that it is going backwards and articles like this try to come up with silly reasons why, It's simple, there are less games on it. The VC doesn't need to modernise, it needs to maximise and maybe for the WiiU's low instal base...it has
@IronMan28 the number of games on the Wii mode has been stripped back to barely anything. No more N64 zelda or smash bros for example. Almost all third party games have disappeared. Check the total titles per format on your wii mode and then check it on actual Wii hardware wii shop Channel.
Plus you're playing in 50HZ and the wii u version look a lot better.
The killer difference is that the wii games being made available should NOT explicitly require a wii remote to be played. For the premium ÂŁ17.99 price tag they should have added a control scheme by which I can boot in off tv mode and enjoy Mario Galaxy 2 directly on my game pad like any other game. Giving me off tv play as long as I point my wii remote at my gamepad is silly.
Pricing is way off. Ps3 was offering PsOne (equivalent gen to n64) for ÂŁ3.99 for the last 7 years, PS2 (equivalent gen to Wi) for ÂŁ7.99. Around half the prices seen on Nintendo digital distdistribution. Premium critically acclaimed titles would then see a price increase relative to their status, just like you see in the retail pre-owned market, which isn't fair approach, as opposed to a premium price for anything and everything.
Couple with this, we see a huge catalogue of titles being offered at a Chinese water torture frequency. Here's an amazing game you loved as a youngster!! More to come soon, think of all the possibilities and prepare your excitement levels!!!!! How soon? Not even God knows. Eventually one is released, and it couldn't be further from a premium title if it tried.
Point 1: establish a reduced base rate for all formats, with structured levels dependent on the games appeal.
Point 2: actually release games!!!!!! This strategy cannot be expressed enough by me and anyone else enough.
Point 3: turn on NEW taps. Formats we've never seen, or had access to for an age. The wii gave us 8 formats from day one. Wii u had 2. And has built up to 5 over 2.5 years and we're supposed to be impressed. You add gamecube, dreamcast and saturn to that roster and seriously watch the interest levels shoot through the roof.
@TheRegginator TRUE!
Things Nintendo must Improve on the virtual console
Price:whenever I see a sale for Virtual console games on Eshop, I always think the sale price should of been the Normal price.
Cross-Buy: I own every major NES game on my 3ds, but I don't want to pay out the full cost just to get the same games on Wii U. If I buy a VC game on 3DS or Wii U I should get it for free on the other
More Frequent, Lager Updates: We are currently lucky if we get one VC game a week on either Wii U or 3DS VC and The WII U VC does not have the range of choice that Wii VC had (having Sega and Turbographix Games) and new games are being added much slower (Mario 64 was available within the first week on the wii but we only just got it now on the Wii U over TWO YEARS since the console launched).
Adding Gamecube titles: I'm sure the Wii U can handle Gamecube games, Come on Nintendo this should of been the first logical step up from Wii VC
Moving GBA games to 3DS VC: What were Nintendo thinking putting PORTABLE games on a home console? Its not like the 3DS doesn't have its own VC. They already proved it could be done with the 10 3DS GBA ambassador games which all play great.
Pokemon: WHY ARE THE MAIN POKEMON GAMES, the most popular Gameboy games of all time other than perhaps Tetris NOT ON 3DS VC?!?
Nintendo would make so much money.
It's sad to me that Nintendo hasn't even really managed to live up to its original promise of what the VC was supposed to be when it first revealed the service for Wii, never mind all the ways it falls short by modern standards. Its another great recent day example of Nintendo not fully delivering on the amazing potential of one of its ideas. Something its been guilty of time and time again since around the Wii generation imo. If Nintendo could realise some of these ideas to their full potential I firmly believe it would be winning the console wars at this point in time.
Personally, I'd be happy with just a slightly tweaked version of what they have now, where you buy and download digital copies of games that you actually own (not just rent) but where the prices are cheaper across the board and where Nintendo just releases all the games across all its platforms now, alongside all the other VC platforms it supported on Wii. Also, it needs to make these games fully cross-buy/play and also support your account on new platforms going forward too so you still have all those games without having to re-buy them again. Offering up bigger storage on its systems to store all these games would be great too.
I have a ton of NES-N64 carts, so for me, the attraction of the Virtual Console was games from other systems, particularly arcade games. These offerings are drying up. Still waiting for arcade Punch Out!!! BTW.
And just say no to subscription services. We've got enough monthly expenses around here without them.
Yeah... I think that they just need to release more games on virtual console with cheaper prices. A lot of us already bought these games first time round. I remember paying ÂŁ50 to ÂŁ60 on DK64 and don't wanna pay more than ÂŁ5 for it now.
A big factor for me buying the wii u was that it has no monthly subscription and I can download and play those games when I choose after that point. PSN says it has free games but you have to keep paying your monthly subscription fees to play them as I recently found out after buying one.
I don't want subscription fees for Nintendo but with all this new business and a new member service talk, I cant help but think that that is the way that they are going to go anyway.
@BLPs Its called a prepaid card chief. It's a gamble placing your personal information anywhere online.
IMHO Nintendo should do with its VC titles the same thing Netflix is doing with movies and tv series: they should offer them on a subscription model, where you pay 5$-10$ and you have full access to every Nintendo game published on NES-SNES-N64 and GC (minus the games based on other characters and for which its license is already expired, like "Popeye"); and someone should be able to access those titles on both Wii U and 3DS with the same account.
IMHO: 5$ per month (or 49.99$ / year) to access NES, SNES, Gameboy mono and color games, and an additional 5$ per month (or 99.99$ per year) to access N64, Gamecube and the DS titles.
Hear, hear. I want a subscription service for virtual console games. I never liked the idea of paying a monthly fee for stuff but with Netflix I absolutely love the idea now. Paying $12 a month for all the movies & TV shows they have & I have the time to watch is awesome! I want all the virtual console games available to me as long as I keep paying a subscription fee. It's such a good idea! Do this Nintendo. DO IT! DO IT NOW!
@WalupeachyTime But you still can't play that PSone game on a PS4. What's the worth in cross buy or digital games if they don't carry forward to the future? When they have no qualms selling a PS1 port of Final Fantasy VII for $16 and the PSNow rental service PS3 digital games.
Although not all playable on the WiiU home menu it's 100% preferable that all my Wii digital purchases are actually on my WiiU, considering Iwata said their next handheld and next console are absorbing the WiiU architecture I can be confident my Virtual Console games can be transferred to the 9th gen as well.
Whereas Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie on my red ringed 360 are stuck in the 7th generation, I could get another xbox 360 to play them(although I still have the N64 cartridges) but what's the point? I doubt anyone bought digital games on the 360 or PS3 thinking that they wouldn't be able carry them forward to the 8th gen systems.
Anyway on the matter of the topic: "Nearly half the votes want more of the same but at lower prices, essentially, reflecting the fact that there can be weariness in paying $10 for an N64 download,".
Even people who like the Virtual Console service and thought the games they bought were worth it would want "the same for less", if you lowered the prices of the games people would still want "the same for less" with futher reductions.
I think the virtual console is fine, but they could have more package deals on classic games or more sales on their classic games. Other than that, my biggest gripe is trying to find games on the 3DS. There should be a way to see all of the games available, instead of trying to find them (which can be a mess). Sony and Microsoft have a way to just see every game available, and even though there is a lot more on the E-Shop, there should still be a way to see them. It seems that if you don't add games to your wish list or write them down, you forget about them and they become lost...all of this could also help developers create more games and still see a profit in their older ones that they've added...sort of like Little Inferno on the Wii U. Unless you type that game in, it doesn't even show up unless it's part of a sale event. It would just be nice to be able to see every game available, because I know there's a lot of 3DS and DSWare games that I have not played and cannot find or remember the title.
Why not go the route of DLC for older games?
For example...
Play in the All-Stars skins for the classic Super Mario Bros. games
DLC racers for Super Mario Kart
Play as Peach in Super Mario Bros
Fusion Suit in Super Metroid
Play as Zelda rescuing Link in A Link To The Past
Additional levels (could apply to many games)
Mirror mode for SM64
Online leaderboards for Duck Hunt, Donkey Kong and other arcade style games
I think if the games were seen as truly digital versions of the games rather than straight emulations, there would be more hype and incentive to buy.
Look at the iOS and Android versions of the classic Sonic games and that's the kind of thing I'd like Nintendo to embrace on the NX.
Most would be pallet swaps or at most new sprites or BGM.
I honestly dont get all the complaining over the prices sure it may seem sily but its still overall cheaper than buying the original cart plus the system needed to run it especially since with how much some of these original cartridges can go for or are extremely hard to find especially in mint condition
@Dr_Lugae
"considering Iwata said their next handheld and next console are absorbing the WiiU architecture I can be confident my Virtual Console games can be transferred to the 9th gen as well."
Where is your source for this statement? I don't recall Iwata saying any such thing. Even if he did say that (which I doubt he did), it's even more of a leap of faith to assume all of your VC games will transfer over to the next platform. Technically they didn't even transfer from Wii to Wii U, because you had to buy them again (at a discounted price) if you wanted to enjoy them on the Wii U OS. If you didn't want to pay the fee, you would have to boot into the ancient Wii OS in order to do anything with Wii games. So technically nothing actually "transferred." You still had to play your old games on the old architecture. Assuming that Nintendo will let you move all your VC games over free of charge to the next platform is an oversimplification and pure speculation.
To your point about "Why buy another 360 if I can't carry the games over to Xbox One," that's a ridiculous sentiment. Why would you still own an N64 if you can't use your cartridges on the GameCube then? Because each console has its own games and its own value, regardless of whether you can move those games to the next platform. The Xbox 360 has a significant amount of high quality games on it. If I want to play games on it, I'll go buy it. Simple as that. No one should buy a console on the merit of whether those games will be playable on the next gen. I doubt you were using that reasoning when you went and bought your Wii U, for example. Because if Nintendo's next console ditches the Gamepad (which is incredibly probable), your Wii U games won't work on the next hardware either.
Yup, definitely needs to change. It's why I almost always buy the games when they have a small sale.
I'm all for monetary justice so if it can improve, I hope they do it. But I'm honestly ok with the prices as they are. My thing is, I'm not too lazy for Wii mode, as its VC library dwarfs the Wii U's. Though I grew up with them, I'm horrible at a lot of these older games so the VC restore points are what I love to have. That way, I at least finally get to experience what I wasn't able to as a kid lol. If anything, they need to do VC right with GBA and DS games on 3DS and N64 and Gamecube games on Wii U. Heck, I still want SNES games on my 3DS and Nintendo couldn't be further away from doing that. Crossbuy would be awesome. That'd be just fine.
@BLPs It seems more sensible to go with the account based model and just go with prepaid cards if you're worried about someone getting ahold of your info. There's always a risk of your info getting stolen when you put it online. I'd rather run that slim risk and not have to pay $100 every time I want to re download all my Ninty classics. Not to mention if my Wii U/3DS break then I'm just SOL unless Nintendo customer service cuts me some slack and gives me codes for all the games that I lost. Whereas if my PS4/Vita break I just re download them all to the new system and, at most, the only thing I've lost would be saved files. Though now if you have PS+ even those are constantly being uploaded and can be re downloaded if something happens.
In regards to the article, I think the VC is fine for the most part. They just need to lower the prices for the games and, as you said, not be so concerned with squeezing every cent out of fans. They also need to release more games more frequently. But I don't see any of this happening any time soon, at least not until the NX releases. Which is quite depressing.
Wow, this has received a bucket load of response... my 2 cents...
Simply advertise the vc library more, lower prices slightly, offer bundles for vc series (donkey kong land set for price of two etc)
Get the the GBadvanceware onto the new3DS, give away vc releases with new updates in series ( example Kirby... we're already paying ÂŁ30+ for the new WiiU version, give the vc for free )
Have demo's for the vc releases which arnt guaranteed sellers.
Dont bother with N64 vc on 3ds, continue remaking the bonafine classics (starfox/Zelda etc)
Restart the Nintendo 3D classics with SNESware.
Whenever there is an article criticizing Nintendo in any way there are people flocking out to defend Nintendo in droves. I know this is a Nintendo site where Nintnedo fans gather but still.
Nintendo is capable of not being perfect you know. There is always room for improvement.
@BinaryFragger Obviously I absolutely agree
@BLPs I agree, I'm fine the the structure and the pricing, but there are so many games I really want that just aren't available. I just want Nintendo to release every game they have the rights to release and then try to get other companies to give approval to release the other games. There's no reason why I should own a Super Nintendo and I shouldn't be considering buying an N64 (I would have already bought one, but I can't stand the though of having to buy new controllers every couple years) I should just be able to download all the games I want on Wii U
Top VC problems
#1 Needs steady release of games, 4-5 a week minimum, Wii and or Gamecube games weekly.
#2 Cross buy for Wii U 3DS needs to happen already, they look woefully out of touch compared to Sony.
#3 Reduce pricing, whether overall or through weekly sales just get it done.
I don't expect Wii VC and WiiWare games to transfer to the next console, but I am very curious about the VC versions of Wii games we have. They use Wii mode to run, so unless they put Wii hardware in their next console or emulate through software, I don't see how they would transfer. Maybe there will be a Wii mode within the Wii U mode...
The Virtual Console was an absolute stroke of genius and it still is. There are only two issues that surround it currently and those are price and lack of software/ interval of release.
The new WIi titles are a perfect example, most of these cost more on digital than you can buy the physical releases for and that is ridiculous, i mean who passes these things off??
And ÂŁ6 for Gameboy titles is crazy. Im sure if everything was less the download volume would incraese that much more than it would counter balance the price drop.
I'm very disappointed in you...this article and the former poll were completely rigged and didn't allow for people to say that they're fine with the service as it is. I expected more honor from you guys and it's sad to see that you've lost that important quality.
@Neko_Rukiafan I think articles like this one are a good thing. NL is taking the time to get some insight about how fans feel about the service and changes that could improve virtual console,as it's obvious that many feel the service is lacking. It's not like nintendo has made any effort to improve the service, and the fact they don't feel the need to even explain why the vc system is set up the way it is makes me believe customer/fan feedback means as little to them as the vc service itself.
psn and Xbox live and steam didn't become the great services that they are over night. It took years to get these services to where they are now through listening to the fan base and good relations with third party studios.
@ShanaUnite Nintendo doesn't want to show that some franchises are valued less than others (can't explain Earthbound's high price though).
@thatguyEZ it's already proven that if your console breaks and you contact Nintendo first about it, your purchases can be restored
@TheRegginator I want to give you a genuine hand shake now.
I honestly really mind the prices, it's the selection of games and the way they drip feed it that's all wrong!
@Captain_Gonru My point exactly. It was never a big deal to me, and it's even more of a moot point since you can boot Wii mode while you turn on your Wii U. While there is no Miiverse integration, that shouldn't be a big deal anyway.
@mjc0961 Yeah, ps+ Is such a horrible service. Paying 50 dollars a year is such a outlandish fee, who would ever get behind that business model?
I remember when anyone even mentioned Nintendo getting into the mobile market, and the diehard fans thought it was the worst idea ever. It's happening now and no one is complaining about it one bit.
If Nintendo ever went the subscription route with its online services I'm sure everyone would go along with that decision because it's Nintendo. I certainly would be more than happy to pay a yearly fee to have a up to date online infrastructure instead of what we have now. Don't you think Nintendo could put that money to good use?
I personally believe if they ditched their attempts at 100% cycle accuracy and simply went for playability, Nintendo would have no issue getting GBA and SNES games running with all the bells an whistles VC offers. The ARM11 is pretty powerful.
@jsty3105 and it's still much easier to jump on online and just re download them without losing anything. But it's good to know I'm not totally screwed if something happens and that actually makes me feel a lot better. But still, Nintendo needs to set up an account based system ASAP.
@Superryanworld @mgc0961 idk, a year of PS+ pays for itself in 3 months. Either way, trying to spin Sony giving you 72 games for $50 a year is retarded. I do think having to pay to play games online is dumb, but saying PS+ is "such a horrible service" is pretty funny. Whatever makes you feel better I suppose. I don't think Nintendo needs to copy it though, as a subscription model for VC games sounds worse than the current set up IMO. They just need to upload more games and drop the prices on them.
@thatguyEZ I was being sarcastic. I know it's nearly impossible to tell that from text versus speaking in person.I never thought the subscription based service was a big deal. I spend way more than 50 dollars a year on games.
@Superryanworld ohh...ahem...well in that case, please disregard my post lol
I think you guys are underestimating just how much work goes into these VC releases. They can't just download a ROM, scan in a manual, and call it a day.
Unfortunately, it seems as if third parties have jumped ship on the Wii U VC like they have with retail titles. That would be the logical explanation as to why most of the releases have been first and second party titles. Oh well, there's still a huge catalog available in Wii Mode, and except for the arcade games the systems supported there have been pretty much tapped out, anyway (not counting the ones just not possible to release like licensed games and Rare games). Just enjoy the new games we do get from the handheld system catalogs on both the 3DS and Wii U VCs.
As for rebuying the games, I don't think it's unreasonable to pay a dollar or two to upgrade to the Wii U version with the added restore point, full GamePad functionality, and Miiverse integration (as well as 60 HZ for some of the PAL releases). As for the NES games on 3DS, while a crossbuy system would be nice, just don't buy them if you already own them or prefer to buy them on the Wii or Wii U shops. I'm certainly not double dipping over a meager addition of portability. Though, I do agree that an account system is needed to avoid jumping through hoops if you need or want to replace your system.
@BulbasaurusRex "Unfortunately, it seems as if third parties have jumped ship on the Wii U VC like they have with retail titles."
https://www.facebook.com/NatsumeInc/posts/10153197773988397
That goes directly against what Natsume said - "The titles for Virtual Console are handled by Nintendo. The publisher and Nintendo discuss which classic titles would be a good fit and have the best potential to sell. Once a title is agreed upon, Nintendo and the publisher work together to bring that title to the designated system, with Nintendo doing the bulk of the work."
@mjc0961 The GBA ambassador games on 3DS didn't suck. They were still perfectly playable. It isn't like the ability to save in-game was removed. People are spoiled these days with controller remapping and save states.
And I still believe the 3DS could emulate DS games, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, let's say that even the New 3DS XL couldn't handle DS games whatsoever. It would still be a slap in the face to have the games on Wii U, because very few people actually wanted it on Wii U. The demand for DS games on the Wii U was practically nonexistent; whereas the demand for those games on 3DS was huge. So if it isn't possible to emulate DS games on 3DS, then Nintendo shouldn't have put it on any eShop. Simple as that. It's an issue of Nintendo letting our dreams die slowly instead of crushing them.
@jsty3105 They still have to get the publisher to agree to work with them. It appears that not many are willing to do so these days, Natsume being a notable exception.
@medalofhonorfan DS games are already backwards compatible on the 3DS! There's absolutely no point in offering them on the 3DS VC! That's why they're going on the Wii U VC instead. I do agree that the GBA games would've made more sense on the 3DS VC, though.
@BulbasaurusRex But is that your observation or have third parties mentioned so in interviews though?
@jsty3105 It's just my observation but one that makes a ridiculous amount of sense. Why else would the third parties be missing in action on the Wii U VC(although Hudson's absense is understandable) even while some of them like Sega and Capcom continue to support the VC with their handheld releases? Either they've jumped ship or they don't feel it necessary to rerelease titles that are still available on the Wii Shop Channel
@BLPs
I'd like to point out that if someone broke into your house and stole your Wii U, because it lacks a proper account system a la Microsoft, Valve, Sony, Apple, Google, etc., redownloading your games on a new Wii U is a notoriously obtuse process wherein Nintendo makes you file a police report, and then submit the police report to them, and then you still might not get them back.
To access my account on different hardware with Steam, I just need to sign in on new hardware, and they send me confirmation emails to ensure this new hardware is approved by me. Then I have instant access to all my stuff again.
@Quorthon That's not 100% true anymore. I lost my 3DS and called Nintendo to have them remove the link to my Nintendo ID from the old system and into the new replacement I bought. They only required a few verification questions for account security (such as last games purchased, last four digits of the credit card I used to buy them, etc), and the process was done in a day. I could log into my NNID and redownload all my eShop purchases on my new 3DS since the purchase history is tied to the NNID now and not to the specific system - although the NNID is, so it still requires Nintendo's help to move the NNID itself. I wasn't required a police report or anything of the kind. And the rep was quite pleasant about it. I didn't even have to beg. haha.
Granted, it is still a ridiculous process, however, to not have an account system as you mentioned like Steam or any other major online game network does, such as PSN or Xbox Live. Having to call Nintendo to ask them to do a transfer is really not user friendly whatsoever.
@BLPs
I don't think many changes are needed in this section besides from pricing and bundling.
Maybe Nintendo could add a subscription model or a retro-flatrate where you could play every retro game in their catalogue. But this subscription model mustn't (!) include online gaming since playing the online part of every game should always stay for free.
I really hated and boycotted Xbox Gold and while the game offerings of Playstation+ are alright, it's really brazen to demand payment to unlock a part of a game (online mode) that you already paid the full price for.
That's a no-go!
@ThomasBW84
"It's a slight oddity that there's hype around N64 games on Wii U, for example, when there are plenty of them in the Wii Mode"
I wouldn't call it odd at all! Back then the Wii and the native Wii Games were such a new thing, that no one cared for the retro releases. In seven years of owning a Wii, I never even once visited the Wii store. And why would I? There were so many great Wii games to play and new motion controls to learn. VC just wasn't interesting back then.
With the Wii U, this has completely changed, but not because the console would be less interesting. It's the Gamepads small screen which is perfect for retro games with their relatively "ugly" graphics. They just look better on the small screen and because of their simplicity in gameplay, they also work better on a handheld/Wii U Gamepad.
I never would've thought about playing the old NES/Gameboy title Mario & Yoshi on PC or Wii, because it's something made for the small screen. So when I got the Wii U and found this classic in the eshop, I had to buy it!
And I also discovered alot of GBA titles that I didn't know before I got a Wii U. Just take LoZ Minish Cap as an example.
But after fiddling around with the NES, SNES and GBA games, switching over to 3D games from the N64 (and hopefully later Gamecube) era was refreshing for a change.
That's why we are excited about more N64 releases.
Nintendo lives in 2006 still - but they somehow make the highest quality games. So I don't mind, but I see your point.
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