In modern game development, it can sometimes be tough for developers to fulfill their initial promise with a game. Often, this results from too much being shown too soon; as the project continues to grow and change, certain aspects must be scaled back in order to accommodate more. As alluded to in the sub, Watch Dogs was a recent example of this. At E3 2012, many praised the advanced lighting and fluid animation effects that were prominently displayed in a demo, only to be disappointed when the initial release did not match the same level of visual quality. It didn’t look bad, but it didn’t look nearly as good as it did initially and, ultimately, that was a tough pill to swallow for many.
Unfortunately, it appears that Nintendo’s upcoming RPG extravaganza, Xenoblade Chronicles X, has also been subject to some scaled back graphics. A Youtuber named gundamzerostrike recently posted a comparison video between Xenoblade Chronicles X’s initial E3 2013 video and the updated version shown in the last Nintendo Direct, and the differences - while not striking - are noticeable. What’s immediately apparent are the simpler lighting effects, blurrier textures, and some missing objects in the environment. Ultimately, it’s a non-issue, as gameplay footage so far has proven beyond doubt that this is an absolutely gorgeous looking game, but it's still something worth mentioning. Take a look at the video below and see for yourself:
To assuage any possible fears that this game will look anything less than top-tier, here’s a trailer released by Nintendo earlier this year showcasing the game, with the newer graphics, in action:
What do you think? Was the slight reduction in visual quality justified, given the scope of this title? Share your thoughts in the comments below.
[source kotaku.com]
Comments 146
Probably was spruced up for the reveal. Then they realized they couldn't handle those good graphics.
That's a little more than slight. A bit of a letdown, but graphics alone don't sell me on a game anyway. This is why I don't own a Sony or Microsoft system.
Lighting is different yes but I'd say the one example of the floor where it looks blurrier isn't enough proof as a later shot the ground looks the same, objects not being there though has nothing to do with downgrades.
I had a feeling this would happen. It' not a bad thing tho, sacrifices were bound to be made, happens all the time in development, especially for games this large of a scale.
The difference isn't between Night and Day. But it was to be expected, I mean, the game is massive, so I guess it's whatever. I'm sure that it's nothing that would hamper from the experience. Has it been confirmed how long the game actually is??? For example, is the game longer than Xenoblade Chronicles?
Still buying it and using vacation time to play it.
Someone already pointed this out, but it seems that the original reveal trailer had that cut scene pre-rendered, while the latest gameplay video saw the same cut scene running in the game at realtime. Either way, this is the only cut scene that appears to have been downgraded — everything else has either been left the same or upgraded.
Who gives a damn? Seriously - it's the Wii U!
I thought the original reveal was Fmv.
Oh boy here we go. WIIU A DISASTER. XENOBLADE A DISASTER. THERE WAS A MILD SETBACK AND WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE FINE DETAILS. EVERYONE JUMP SHIP.
I'm sure the earlier video wasn't rendered in real-time and was just done to show off something that would wow people....I usually figure that early footage of games is FMV or pre-rendered until it's actual gameplay.
Either way it's still going to kick butt.
Like I said, I'll just wait until the full version is out. lol
Aaaaaand the anti-Nintendo people have more fuel for their fire.
It's certainly a downgrade, but I'll still grab the game as early as I can. I didn't buy Xenoblade Chronicles because people thought it looked beautiful, I got it because you all wouldn't stop talking about how amazing it was and how it was the best (J)RPG of the 7th generation.
I'm quite shocked the in game camera is so stiff and Wii like. Those ground textures are pretty pathetic.
I always assumed that the E3 reveal was faked. Still looks good for a Wii U game, and I'm definitely more interested in the gameplay than I am in graphical fidelity (although I still want a big world with large draw distance).
I'd have to guess that they made the downgrade after discovering that they could barely fit the game onto the disc.
Honestly, it already needs extra data downloaded so that it can run smoother so do you really think we'd have a good game performance-wise if they had kept the graphics?
It's a shame that the Wii U Disc couldn't fit enough onto it but then that gives me hope that Nintendo knows exactly how to handle their next consoles performance! (Not bashing the Wii U but clearly Xenoblade X was almost too big for it's own good lol)
They went from showing that scene in pure CG to showing it in real-time. ANY developer from ANY company on ANY system would have seen a difference.
I love all the positive comments so far. I'll be downloading my copy on my external unless theres a collector's edition up for preorder.
Graphics aren't next gen 5/10-IGN
I know there is a difference there, but honestly I don't see the big deal at all. I was fine with "last gen graphics", I thought we reached a good place with them, but ultimately what many others have said is true: graphics matter little. Even if they were extremely important the game still looks amazing.
Wii U is doomed!!!11
I don't really care about the graphics downgrade tbh.
@mariovslink62 Except IGN gave the Xenoblade Chronicles 9/10 and that game looked poor for the time graphically.
At first I thought there was a huge downgrade on the second trailer until I realized I was playing the Youtube video at 360p.
There's a lot of back tracking going on here. I'm sure a lot of people were getting excited about the graphics after E3 but now all of a sudden nobody's bothered about the downgrade.
Nintendo with a touch of the Ubisoft's.
That's a huge let down. I've had my copy preordered since E3 and well this is not delivering upon what had me sold first.
Normally I wouldn't even notice stuff like this. Graphics and frames per second and textures never really held much precedence to me when it comes to games. In the end, as long as I am engaged and I like what I see, how detailed it is doesn't even matter. As long as I'm satisfied with the end product that they produce (I know I will be, I'm never wrong when it comes to predicted games I'll enjoy) nothing else matters. I'll still gladly shell out my money for it.
This particular sequence seems to be the only one that was downgraded though. Other parts of the game were shown to be upgraded, including some of the environments.
Overall, parts of the game might have required a graphics downgrade to smoothly run that big of a game.
I can't believe there's seriously an article about this...
I wouldn't call that slight but oh well.
@Goob Exactly. It was obviously pre-rendered and not using the game engine. This isn't a downgrade at all, and it's an apples to oranges comparison.
Well... think about it. One is a CGI trailer before they really did much on the game and the second is the same kind of trailer however was done in the game engine.
However this was something that I did notice when they showed the trailer. It was pretty obvious it was downgraded and I didn't even need to compare it to the first video.
It is unfortunate but I'm still buying the game so it doesn't matter.
My PC is what I use to be blown away by Godlike graphics. Certainly not the dated PS4 or Xbox One, and obviously not my Wii U.
@IceClimbers Not much of a difference here, which is good.
This game has tons of the slightest or modest changes, whether its environments, characters, or the dolls.
Hopefully the next console Zelda game (supposedly and expectedly coming to Wii U) won't have to see a downgrade. Although, if they really have to sacrifice a bit, then I'm sure that that dev team will find a workaround, kinda how they made Skyward Sword - due to technical limitations - look so stunning by using a somewhat abstract and washed-out visual style i.e. Impressionism.
Game is still going to look good, based off the Treehouse broadcasts. Not worried at all about this.
Anyone would be dissapointed. I know I am.
BUT to be fair,
If we were to compare it for example in the fields or city, It's still the same graphics-wise except for that particular scene. And if anyone is familiar with the technicalities of 3D graphics, 'target renders' usually doesn't equate to the final build. Happens to almost all games not just this one. It's still by far the most visually gorgeous game Nintendo and Monolith ever produced.
Just cancelled my pre order,this is completely unacceptable.I'll maybe pick it up if I see it in the bargain bin for under a tenner.Poor show Nintendo,
Reggie out!!! Bill Trinen Out!!!
I'm only joking!
It still looks better than Xenoblade so it's fine with me.
@MasterGraveheart there's not enough face palm .gifs on the internet for your last sentence.
Im actually really impressed with the graphics, and I'm rarely impressed visually.
This must be the most stupid click baity news I have ever read. You do know that this hangar was redesigned, was not downgraded graphically.
Also you do now that the cutscenes in Xenoblade are real time so they may be different depending the time of day, weather, other effects.
Plus is only one minute cutscene that has different light and the mech that are missing are because of the random generated content that is happening in the game or simply they changed the hangar cutscene.
The last broadcast with the dolls of Xenoblade Chronicles X at the end shows HUNDREDS of Mecha fighting and you are claiming that it was difficult for Wii U to render 3 or 4 mech in a closed space?
All gameplay footage they showed in E3 2014 in the Treehouse stream was better in game than in everything they showed in 2013 and the last broadcast was even better. You want proof? Why you do not show this videos instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSE_l9baH2w
Why are Nintendo sites follow stupid clickbait tactics like this to create buzz?
Um, people thought those were the final graphics?! Anyone with any sense would recognise that as an ingame clip, often spruced up with nicer lighting and nicer pre-baked textures, it's no surprise, and certainly not misleading!
Nintendolife is not the same good site from the past.
I'm from Brazil and i learned to love this site since 2011, but in the last months i'm seeing A LOT of click bait articles here.
Better you guys do something and change your policy because i can assure you that i'm leaving this site if this clickbait articles don't stop (and i'm sure that i'm not alone).
I don't have any problem with criticism against Nintendo and their games (yeah, Nintendo do A LOT os shit decisions), BUT get your blueberries together before post this kind of article.
we have waited 3 years just to have xenoblade get downgraded and zelda be moved back another year.... im not sure why i play nintendo. we get the biggist butter yous out of any other gamers
Its a bit sad, the character models look almost as bad as the Wii version of Xenoblade Chronicles. Why can they make these beautiful, stunning environments but can't make the character models look like they didn't come right out of the old Wii game?
@gatorboi352 What? If graphics alone sold me on systems, I'd own a PS4 or a XBO. In their heart, games like The Order, The Last of Us, Call of Duty, Halo, Battlefield, all of them, games in grim-n-grity settings made to push polygons first and gameplay later, none of that appeals to me. This is why I stick with Nintendo and Steam. Are you suggesting that graphics are a good enough reason to buy a game?
@mitchtendo Thats not true. Games get pushed back all the time, on every platform. Uncharted 4 and Quantum Break for PS4 and XBOne most recently f.e..Games are pimped visually for trailers, nothing special here either.
Keep your heads up kids. All will be fine.
Not that I care in the slightest and there may be many reasons for it, but those graphics are certainly worse than the E3 version.
The thing the bothers me is how the cinematography basically throws the downgrades in your face. Why would you ever make that foot shot is the floor has that low of a texture. I'm sure from a normal perspective in game, everything will look fine, but what made many of those shots so good (the Doll activating and walking off) are gone, and your left with a longer-than-necessary cutscene of someone walking, no diversions. The scene inside the Doll was particularly rough to see, looks like fullbright.
I'm neither surprised nor bothered by this, since the game never prided itself on top-running resolution.
However, I kinda suspect that some of these "downgrades" might be reversed with the install data.
Seems we need a moderator for some of the potty mouths here.
I joke, I joke. I kid, I kid. Anyways, I always compare a studio's games to their previous entries. As long as it looks better than Xenoblade Chronicles and has its scope (or greater from what we've heard), I'm sold.
It looks more like it was a cutscene for the reveal, rather than one they are using for the game. Some elements have been completely changed, such as what the character is wearing and the colour of the doll. These things obviously undergo various changes during development anyway.
Lighting definitely got worse, but there's a chance that it's just a different scene with more lights. Same explanation goes for the missing objects. The textures have always been absolutely awful, so having them be even worse was hardly noticeable.
Honestly I don't care how disappointing the game looks anymore. This is just the best the Wii U can do. It's not on the level of the other 8th Gen consoles, PC, and even mobile (as of this year, maybe late last year), but at least the games be fun.
Eh.The Wiiu is a pathetic system that can't even handle anything,everything running like crap and everything looking like crap.TheN64 has better graphics then the Wiiu!
I put my money on the "E3 intial cutscene was pre-rendered" camp.
To be fair, this could very well be part of the whole "Data Pack" thing.
To safe Disc Access time, certain features arent streamed in real time off of the disc. Those could be higher Res textures, enviromental graphics like grass etc.
Also, this hasent been the first time and will certainly not be the last.
And theres actually a reason behind all this.
Lets take the lates Uncharted 4 footage, as the graphical differences were much more noticable then those here.
You see, the teaser footage actually ran on the original PS4 Hardware, and the system was more then capable of rendering it that way.
What most people forget at this point is, that the demo footage only had that one scene in it.
A finite number of enteties, a predetermined camera route, no ingame calculation going on at the time, you get the idea.
Its not really misleading, this IS the capability of this engine under THESE circumstances.
Now you have the full game. Sure, the same cutscene plays, but it looks less pretty. Thats why the system has to prepare everything thats comming AFTER said cutscene in the background.
Entety placement, AI routines, preload textures, filters, lighting, prepare the physics engines and all that jazz.
Those things arent all in place when the first teaser trailers hit. And often, you will only notice that a system cant handle a certain level of fidelity during actual playtesting.
Maybe the datastreaming cant keep up, maybe a certain filter produces errors when used during actual gameplay scenes. Its natural.
Guess why Nintendo changed their ways to only presenting a new game when its actually rather close to being finished ? To avoid exactly that.
Another good example for things like that come from the PS2 era.
Ever noticed that games like Metal Gear Solid and Kingdoms Hearts use different character models for cutscenes ? Much more noticable in KH.
Because in a cutscene, you have way more controll over how much power your scene will ask from the console.
They could use much higher polygon models, the lighting was better, characters had facial animation etc.
And to those "WiiU games look crap" folks:
Why not go over to http://www.pushsquare.com/ ? The graphics are way nicer over there...if you like your PS3 Re-Releases to look nicer that is
I have to agree with the sentiment of some users here. I left my Nintendo news because of their ignorant comment section,and click bait articles. Nintendo life's user base is large enough where you guys don't have to write in 'what do you think?' To elicit a response(every time)... Your opinion pieces are well thought out and I respect your reviews. But don't dumb down the articles. And the comment section will reflect that too...
Dat butt tho.
Dat butt tho.
The original vision still exists, its just been renamed Final Fantasy XV!
@rennandovale
Word.
@Hy8ogen Mmm hmm
Bloodborne was obviously downgraded visually and no one says anything, because it's an industry darling.
@Harry_Legs thats sum what true but the wiiu is a year older then those and there gimping xenoblade x and delaying Zelda and have no more 3rd part its a bunch of ass
I prefer the cut scenes to use the game engine rather than be prerendered, just because it used to be really jarring in the PS2 era when they'd be a beautiful cutscene and then the actual game be nowhere near it.
@rennandovale Fair enough, man. What would you like to see more of, then? I'm pretty new to this and I'm always looking for feedback.
The worst problem with Watch_Dogs wasn't it's weakened graphics but it's gameplay. It went from "revolutionary new gameplay" to "press x to hack".
NOOO!!!! Well as long as it runs smooth and still looks great T_T.
this..Nintendo NX or ????
Nice graphics 2013....Why Wii U
A very noticable downgrade. Why not just show the game on how it will actually look the first time? Enough with these tech demos at e3 and just advertise the real games.
That new Zelda for Wii U probably look nothing like they been showing the public.
@yuwarite Bloodborne was not noticeable imo. The real downgrade prize definitely goes to Watch_Dogs and Dark Souls 2.
@EvisceratorX
Wait the game release atleast in Japan, and than we can talk about the downgrade and a lot of other things from the game. We don't need a article with Xenoblade "MAY" have been downgraded, this is only fuel for haters, Look this comment section and you will see that some haters are already here hating and every article like this will bring more and more haters. Nintendolife always had(and have) the best comment section i ever seen on gamming site and i really want that stays this way.
We don't need a article like "Is Splatoon a Blockbuster that will help revive Wii U" why not make something like "Is Splatoon a Blockbuster that will do very well like Mario kart, Smash and other Nintendo franchises". (can you see the difference?)
Other article that was laughable was "Analyst Thinks Nintendo is Already Winding Down Wii U Ahead Of Nintendo NX Launch" (This is the true click bait article with no substance and the points made by the "analyst" are just dumb.(Yeah, its possible that Wii U will be descontinued on 2015/2016 but we don't even know what is the NX).
This is my main complains, the other articles are very good and have a lot of information and are a pleasure to read. This is my feedback and sorry for my english.
Yeah cause I played xenoblade on the wii for good graphics /sarcasm
Tell me about the game play and I'll care.
Good thing graphics don't matter! Cant wait for this freakin' game in my life. My body is so ready.
Same thing probably happened with the new Zelda, instead of downgrading the graphics and scale of the game Nintendo decided to reserve it for the next console. Few people cared about Xenoblade, if Zelda was downgraded people will make a huge fuss.
If the graphics are reduced to keep the gameplay qualify up then I don't have an issue with it.
@rennandovale It can sometimes be a struggle deciding what to post and what not to. This is a Nintendo news site so, ultimately, if it's news about Nintendo or something directly relating to it, this is the place for it.
If you want my personal opinion, it's that fans take posts a bit too personally, as if a dig at Nintendo is a dig at them. Any way you cut it, there will be good news and there will be bad news about Nintendo, yet there are some here that believe there's no such thing as bad news when it comes to Nintendo.
I hear you on this particularly being a bit clickbaity. I did not post it with that intention, I still stand by that this is something worth mentioning, even if it is a petty difference. If nothing else, it makes for an interesting article that keeps Xenoblade at the front of people's minds.
Regardless of whether or not that analyst in the article you mentioned was justified, it was brought up to highlight a new shift in the expectations of the Wii U's life cycle by some.
While that analyst does not represent the whole of the industry, he is not alone in his theory that the Wii U's days are numbered. While most people here, including me, are big fans of Nintendo, it's important that we keep ourselves grounded in reality. The Wii U has been a modest success at best; while we won't go posting articles every day that point this out, it's important to keep in mind that Nintendo has been, and still is, fighting an uphill battle with a console that struggles to gain traction.
@rennandovale @SMEXIZELDAMAN Hi, I'm a college student studying PR. Like every single other mainstream news website in existence, NintendoLife pays its bills through ad revenue, which is accrued when you click on an article. In order to encourage more clicks and more views, headlines have to be written that garner the interest of the reader. Writing headlines that convince you to click on them is not clickbait. Headlines are supposed to convince you to click on them. That's what journalism is.
Now granted, some headlines are more exploitative than others. But I would hardly consider a modest headline like "Xenoblade Chronicles X May Have Been Subject to a Slight Graphics Downgrade" clickbait. The words "May Have Been" and "Slight" are qualifiers that denote that the graphical downgrade is not that big of a deal. The subhead even says, "Don't worry, it's not as bad as Watch Dogs." Clearly they don't consider it anything game breaking or significantly negative. But you're reacting as if they do. If you consider that headline clickbait, I'd be hard pressed to find headlines for you that you wouldn't consider clickbait.
Not to mention NintendoLife didn't even make the comparison video. Someone else did. Don't shoot NintendoLife over reporting on someone else's work.
@EvisceratorX I couldn't have said it better myself. The Wii U is the worst in Nintendo's downward trend in console sales (minus the Wii, which was an anomaly that picked up an audience that has since abandoned Nintendo), so to pretend everything is sunshine and rainbows is unrealistic. I love Nintendo and desperately want them to succeed, but I'm not going to pretend this generation has been anywhere near good for them.
I hardly notice anything. I bet mostly sticklers would raise a big fuss.
Yeah maybe. But literally everything else in the game looks loads better. Did you see the Japanese introduction video released today? It's better looking than that E3 trailer by far.
Also how come there's an article about this but not one about the awesome introduction video released?
Oh no, a Nintendo game having it's graphics downgraded. We'll I better throw out my Wii U and go buy an Xbone and PS4 cause they have better graphics. Seriously this kind of crap is just giving fanboys of Microsoft and Sony something else to talk about, claiming the Wii U is a terrible console.
Having good graphics certainly makes a game look fantastic, but just because a game has awesome graphics doesn't mean I'll go and buy it. In most cases the game has to much focus on the graphics that either, or both the gameplay and story are lacking. I'm more interested in the story and gameplay of a game, graphics is the last thing I worry about.
I can definitely see the change in both the graphics and lighting. Does this change my view on the game, certainly not. Stuff like this was to be expected especially with a game of this size. The slight downgrade certainly won't make me turn a blind eye towards this game, especially not after seeing the videos they've been releasing in Japan about the game. So much customization, and the dolls are going to be so much fun. Plus it's is still going to be a huge open world game that's roughly five times bigger than the original game, the original game was already huge in by it's self.
Just to give you guys a feel for how long the original game was, youtuber by the name of Chuggaaconroy a great Let's Player is currently playing it. He's currently sitting at 107 episodes(that including extra's, side missions, etc), each on lasting 20-40 mins long. The developers have already stated XCX will take 300 hours to complete the main game(most likely including extra's, side missions, etc.).
I noticed the downgrade as soon as they showed the same scene from the reveal trailer. It seems pretty big IMO. Worse textures, lighting and detail.
I don't mind though as long as they can keep the frame-rate steady.
@mitchtendo I feel your pain, my friend. The Xenoblade X graphics downgrade doesn't bother me too much personally (still on the fence about getting it, since I couldn't get into Xenoblade on Wii and I'm truthfully a noob when it comes to JRPGs), but I do agree that the delays, disappointments, and downgrades hurt more on Wii U because there's not nearly as many other great games to pad those disappointments. Uncharted got delayed on PS4, but I was completely indifferent about it. That's because I know there's tons of great PS4 games coming out from now until Uncharted - multiplatform and indie - that will keep me plenty busy. The Wii U, however, doesn't have much of consequence by comparison. IMO the most notable Wii U release so far this year has been Affordable Space Adventures. And that's not even a Nintendo game!
@FlaygletheBagel
" The most notable Wii U release so far this year has been Affordable Space Adventures. And that's not even a Nintendo game!"
Please, go back to NEOGAF or Dualshockers.
Still getting it. Hardly a deal breaker since the changes are so subtle.
@rennandovale You conveniently left out the fact that I said "In my opinion" before that quote. And then, instead of addressing any of my points, you made an ad hominem attack on me and dismissed me as a Playstation fanboy, despite the fact that I'm here commenting on a Nintendo fan site, I'm thoroughly enjoying a Wii U game (Affordable Space Adventures), and clearly said "I love Nintendo and desperately want them to succeed" just a few comments ago. That doesn't do much to sell your credibility. Believe it or not, people can get enjoyment out of more than one console.
There were two retail releases on Wii U this year. Kirby and the Rainbow Curse and Mario Party 10. We can even go back and include Captain Toad if you want. Now let me preface this by saying that again, this is my opinion: These three were decidedly average games at best. Even Nintendo knew there wasn't enough content in each of them to justify a full $60 price tag. Hence the fact that they were priced at $40, $50, and $40 respectively. A couple of these games were at least decent, but were bite-sized and didn't do many new things (graphics aside) to truly set them apart from preexisting formulas.
Affordable Space Adventures is at the very least an interesting and fresh concept, and I'm having more fun playing it than I did any of the other games I listed. I'm not sure how claiming I like an indie game on the Wii U more than the most recent first-party games makes me a Playstation fanboy. I like both of my consoles. I just find myself with less reasons to turn on my Wii U this year than I would like.
This is a joke right? It looks better now than it did before.
What probably happened is they had the graphics engine running earlier on for just the parts of the game that were done at the time. They then needed to do some optimizing later on to get the final game running at 30fps. They then went back and adjusted these scenes for the sake of having graphical consistency.
Not a big issue.
@FlaygletheBagel I just don't understand how that can make the 3ds so lettuce cool and have so many games but cabbage up wiiu constantly
I don't mind how the game looks graphically, but the hypocrisy in this comments section is unreal.
Any other company delays a game, downgrades a game, uses micro transactions and it's held up by this community as a sign of what a bad publisher/developer they are. Nintendo does exactly the same thing and it's either no big deal, or actually somehow spun as positive.
It's stuff like this that gives us such a bad name for being blind fan boys.
And the 'clickbait' comments are driving me nuts. Anything even slightly negative such as sales charts or comparisons kept getting referred to as clickbait. There's nothing wrong with this article at all. I'm sure every one referring to it as clickbait would love the article if the weaker footage was from 2013 and the sharper stuff was from the actual game.
Like I said, I don't have a problem with how it looks, but I didn't have an issue with how Watch Dogs looked either.
Oh no, without the proper lighting effects, how oh how will I ever enjoy this game?
the differences - while not striking
It's pretty striking, don't downplay it.
And if people are asking how this happened it's because many trailers at E3 are made on PC.
Who cares?
The one from 2012 is freaking three years old, of course a cutscene has changed in this time. Especially seeing as the first one was probably not from normal gameplay.
The graphics everywhere else except for this cutscene has improved since then though, so I still don't see how this is newsworthy for either NLife or Kotaku lol. A more serious comparison would be in order if so.
Its not as bad as Dark Souls 2, which I bought release day and was quite suprised by after only watching pre-release videos.
Upon playing the game on PS3, lighting, textures and geometry were all simplified.
I've watched a few of the gameplay videos for this, and it doesnt look amazing up close, but having played the first game (and I get a similar sense here), visually Xenoblade is a game about epic scale. That is why you could zoom the camera so far out, to appreciate those wide open spaces.
I remember buying C64 games where they would put screen shots from the Amiga version on the back of the box, games never look quite as good as promotional material, and sadly we have come to expect that.
'Lets plays' are usually the best way of judging how a game actually looks!
@EvisceratorX
Any article that is remotely "negative" will be perceived as clickbait by fanboys--apparently because what they really want to do is read bad news about Nintendo so they can be personally offended (as you noted) and ramp up the persecution complex.
Nintendo fans love any news perceived as "negative" about Nintendo because they're always suckers for the articles. Over at GameInformer, my most-read, most viewed blogs were always those critical of Nintendo in some facet. Anything I wrote critical of Sony or Microsoft? They'd barely even register on the radar of readers.
I think you're absolutely right--that way too many Nintendo fans are somehow personally offended by any element of criticism towards Nintendo as if they're linked to the company like Elliot and E.T.
But at the same time, nothing pleases Nintendo fans more than to read those articles so they can feel persecuted and start circling the wagons. Why else would they call an article they perceive as "negative" something like clickbait--because to them, it is.
Per the issue at hand, we get to see a lot of fanboy apologetics and hand-wringing and all of a sudden, for the first time ever, the original XCX reveal is now being hand-waived as "FMV" when there is absolutely no indication that it was ever FMV! That original Direct reveal of XCX was always considered in-game. All of a sudden, the apologetics start flying--"no, no man! It was FMV all along!"
We all know that XCX barely fits onto one Wii U optical disk. The far more likely explanation is that the original footage was truly in-game--as literally all evidence we have notes--but as development progressed, they had to cut back in some places to improve engine stability and to be able to fit the damn game on the disk, which for being a Nintendo-ified Blu-Ray, somehow has half the storage space of an actual Blu-Ray.
A bit of a bummer, but sometimes in game development, you have to scale back.
@Fazermint
I think it's funny how many people are trying to downplay the graphics change as if "graphics don't matter," while simultaneously, "graphics" was literally the only reason to spend full price money on Majora's Mask on the 3DS. If people really wanted to play it, and graphics really don't matter, it was already on the Wii and Wii U for half the price.
To Nintendo fans, clearly, graphics matter.
@rennandovale
I'm curious what is a more notable Wii U game that has been released, thus far, in 2015, than Affordable Space Adventures.
Oh please, please say the Kirby game that is just borrows ideas from an original DS title while garnering worse reviews.
That could be the difference that results from downloading the 10gb of graphical DLC.
I thought they just switched to in game engine to show the scenes...
@Quorthon Anyone saying graphics don't matter are just wording it wrong. IGN and other game reviewers talk about graphical fidelity as if it was the only aspect of graphics that matters, and that is the notion that people put themselves up against when they say "graphics don't matter".
There's a lot more to graphics that is not jeopardized even if this video turns out to be accurate. "Graphics don't matter" is just an unenlightened way of saying that.
...So what is the Corvette doesn't have racing tires....................................................~Its still gonna be one hell of a ride.
@Fazermint
My note on graphics has often been that, over the course of the last generation, Nintendo fans flocked around the mantra of "graphics don't matter" to defend the Wii against the graphical heft of X360, PS3, and PC. But the second they get an HD-remake of anything, they rally around it, praising the graphics and demanding more. The big selling point of Majora's Mask was improved graphics, first and foremost.
Do some places focus too much on graphics? Sure, but then graphics are big business, and we have the ability to make some truly stunning-looking games these days. My point is on Nintendo fan hypocrisy. When they perceive an attack, they circle the wagons and pull out the screams of "graphics don't matter!" When the game is being praised for it's graphics, they champion it across the board.
I have long been of the mindset that graphics matter--to a point. What's more important is gameplay. My dev team focused on gameplay for our title, so it's solid and reliable, but our graphics became a bit of an afterthought, which was a mix of rushing to finish the game and for it not having a clear graphical direction for a long time. I think a fun game is a fun game regardless of graphics, but sometimes, graphics are a great way to get further drawn into, and lost in a game's world. Graphics matter on a different level than gameplay, but they both matter for different reasons. When you have one and not the other, you are never going to please everybody.
It's still the best looking game on Wii U.
@FlaygletheBagel
I just wanted to address your "noob on JRPGs" point. Xenoblade Chronicles is a JRPG more in it's story, characters, and setting. From a gameplay aspect, it heavily adopts more Western RPG standards--the large open worlds, the freedom of exploration, the side-quests, and even chunks of the combat.
I think that's what made XC such a great JRPG--precisely because it discarded so many JRPG tropes in favor of WRPG concepts.
@Yorumi
It's pretty fascinating. Like watching the roots of a conspiracy theory suddenly take form. All of a sudden, crazed fanboy apologetics introduced this "well it was obviously pre-rendered before" nonsense based on literally nothing. One person says it, and a half a dozen fools just adopt it and run with it, regardless of how personally irresponsible such behavior is.
Someone invented an unsubstantiated idea, and others ran to cling to it almost immediately, all with no evidence at all, just gut feelings of "but I wanna believe it."
When I was younger things like graphics mattered to me, as I felt I had to have the system that did the best in everything. Now, I would rather have a solid gameplay experience over the eye-candy. It isn't that I don't enjoy graphical eye-candy, it is just that usually one comes at the expense of the other and I would rather get all the gameplay enjoyment I can out of my money.
Given my experience with Xenoblade Chronicles, I can live with this graphical downgrade. They provided an amazing story and game last time and I expect they will deliver again. If that means I loose a few lighting effects to see it be a reality, then I will adjust. I am confident by the time I am an hour into the game, I will not really be thinking about it anymore.
@BinaryFragger
They totally would be. There'd be the typical call that the company is doing it deliberately in some kind of imaginary attack on Nintendo or Nintendo fans, there'd be outrage across the board.
Why, rather like with Watch Dogs.
@Monkeyofthefunk I watched it at E3 as an animated trailer or teaser, not the actual gameplay...
I could give two $h!ts about the so called " Downgrade ", It's XENOBLADE for f%c$ sack!? It's going to be Game Of The Year...At least in my book ^.^ Plus, I like the older-style graphics; brings back fond memories of Xenosaga and Star Ocean <3 <3 <3
@KingRoX
A new Star Ocean was announced.
It was a pre rendered cut scene and everything in the Japanese directs since have not been. How the hell this article got some many comments is bewildering.
mourns for humanity
@Quorthon Yep ^^ Integrity and Faithfulness; supposably having a strong infeses on STO 3 (My Fav Star Ocean of all time!!!)
@Quorthon I think youre about right there, retuning to Dark Souls 2, the downgrade had an impact upon the game's atmosphere, and in Dark Souls the atmosphere created by the world is important. They do not 'make' a game, but they are certainly a legitimate contributing aspect to the creation of an immersive environment.
@Yorumi
I read it, thanks for wasting my time.
@BinaryFragger Watch Dogs got flack (at least from me) because of comments from Ubisoft like this, "Really they didn't downgrade anything, its just a little different then when you first saw it i guess. It really does look great". (Ubisoft PR & Event Manager, Tessa Vilyn) Ubisoft also earned my ire over the delayed Wii U version and lack of support (granted, Wii U owners are equally to blame on that one).
If and when Monolith Soft does something just as stupid, I will have similar feelings. As it stands now, I don't recall them ever explicitly stating that the E3 trailer was actual gameplay. But granted, that was a long time ago and my memory can be fuzzy.
The sad thing, this shouldn't surprise anyone in the industry. Nothing truly disappears from the internet, so perhaps game companies should learn not to oversell their product on the front end (or at least include a disclaimer).
@Quorthon To me it will depend. Is this a Aliens: Colonial Marines type switch or is it a Watch Dogs switch? One greatly effected the atmosphere and gameplay, the other just didn't look as good (and seemingly arbitrarily locked up the better graphics)..
As for Mario Kart 8, I look at it as evidence that the hardware is capable of producing graphically appealing games, much like Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4 did for the Gamecube. Any comparisons of Wii U exclusives to Xbox/PS4 ones are sort of like comparing a masterpiece painting to a masterpiece scultpure. Every media platform has it's own advantages/disadvantages over the other, but a master of the form can still create amazing things.
@SetupDisk
You have zero evidence for your statement--and literally no one made this nonsense "pre-rendered claim" before. After you're done reading @Yorumi's post, look at mine as an explanation for why these kinds of "downgrades" can occur.
@Darknyht
It definitely always comes down to art direction and clever programming to handle the art direction. For all the talk of Halo's massiveness back in the day, Metroid Prime was infinitely more detailed. The difference was that Halo intended to create massive levels to awe players with a sense of scale, while Metroid Prime was intended to intimately place the player within the smaller confines of the game world.
The Wii U certainly can't handle the level of graphical detail and fidelity of the XBO and PS4--it's textures can literally only be half the size: 8192x9192 pixels as opposed to 16384x163884 for the PS4 and XBO, and it can't handle as many lighting, reflection/refraction, shadows, or particle effects.
That doesn't mean great-looking games can't be made for the system. As I said, this "downgrade" was likely just a side effect of 1) trying to make the game run smoother and 2) making the game fit onto a single 25-GB disk because Nintendo wasn't clever enough to make 50-GB disks.
Yes, the Wii U is leagues behind the PS4 and XBO, but with dedication, it can still churn out some impressive visuals with incredible art direction. No, you won't see the pores on the flesh like you can on Goro in Mortal Kombat X, but they can still look pretty damn good.
@KingRoX
I don't actually know anything about Star Ocean, except for seeing the news that a new one is on it's way.
It's hard to say if these are pre-rendered graphics or not. It seems like the art style is largely the same with the exclusion of some elements and objects from the more current rendering. I'm not that concerned though, everything I have seen has me really excited for this game despite a missing mech from the most current walk-through of the opening cutscene.
@Quorthon Thanks for the Xenoblade info! I knew I picked up on a little bit of WRPG in Xenoblade. I think it's the sheer scale and complexity of certain WRPGs and JRPGs that scares me away most.
I'm a completionist and I like exhausting every little thing a game has to offer. Which is why, in huge games like these with hundreds of nuances and side quests, I question whether or not a game that big will reward me the way I want it to. I had very much the same experience with Dragon Age Inquisition as I did with Xenoblade. I liked the world and thought the story was very interesting, but if I'm going to be playing a game for 100-200 hours, its gameplay has to captivate me enough to convince me to stick with it for that long. Neither of those games did that for me, but somehow Skyrim did. I guess I'm picky with my open world RPGs.
The list of things that are horrible and the end of the industry when someone other than Nintendo does it but OK when Nintendo does it keeps growing. We can now add bullshots to F2P with microtransactions, DLC, locked on-disc DLC and mobile gaming. Such hypocrisy.
@electrolite77 Totally with you there. If EA had announced a graphical downgrade for a Wii U game, or launched a game with locked-on-disc DLC, or microtransactions, or F2P, etc. Etc., everyone on here would've ripped them to shreds.
But nah, it's okay if Nintendo does it! Why? Because Nintendo.
@Quorthon Mortal Kombat hasn't been appealing for me since high school, but then I've always preferred Street Fighter over MK. I will give you that it looks good from what I've seen. I would have used the examples of Assassin's Creed: Unity and Dragon Age: inquisition since those are the best XBO games I've seen so far. Both of those games are just amazing in their own way. The difference in detail between AC:U and AC:IV is unnerving and Dragon Age similarly with the size and detail that appears to have taken Xenoblade Chronicles' world up a notch.
Honestly i think this is more of a redesign than a down grade. The graphics do look different and it could be downgrade but we'll just have to wait and see if its truly a downgrade or redesign.
The left one looks like it's set later in the day with the main difference being the floors, the wall in the distance and the Dolls being gone while the right one looks like it's around noon because of how much brighter it is and less sunlight coming in. The shot of the MC starting up the Doll just looks worse all around with no real reason for it to be that way, console constraints or not since it wasn't like the original shot was all that graphically intensive looking anyways. The only shot that looks genuinely downgraded to me is that last bit with the construction Doll.
Nice little thing someone on GFAQs made about this 'downgrade':
Check it out: http://a.pomf.se/daoopx.jpg
@Cheesydonut Seems like going from more realistic character designs as seen in the 2013 trailers to the more stylized ones from 2014 and onwards was the big reason people claim the graphics were bullshotted.
Ouch!, that is quite noticeable but hey considering how big the game is it isn't no surprise they had to make changes.
Don't come saying it was just a "slight" downgrade. Stop lying to yourself. It was a considerable downgrade and took away most of the lighting and texture it had. It's like comparing a Wii game to a X360 in these aspects.
However, Pandora's Tower has some dirty graphics but turned out to be an awesome game. I'm pretty sure Xenoblade X will succeed even without top-tier visuals.
@FlaygletheBagel
If you're a completionist, Xenoblade will keep you running for ages. I'll put it this way: I am no longer a completionist, I just like to be able to finish the game, and if on Xbox or Playstation, get around half of the Achievements and call it good. Get my experience. At around 90 hours, I was certain I was nearing the end of Xenoblade Chronicles. I actually finished it at 115 hours.
I didn't even realize the depth and wealth of collectibles and content in the game--the relationship web, the Collectipedia thing, the relationships and shared stats for characters, and so forth. I found about half of this stuff around 20 hours in, and then the rest of it around the 30~40 hour mark.
Like when I play something like Fallout or Kingdoms of Amalur, I spent hours just wandering around exploring the game world and trying to find new locations (and fast-travel points). The game is absolutely massive.
Skyrim, perhaps ironically, did not stick with me. I bought it, and played it, struggled through it's terrible combat, and then Kingdoms of Amalur arrived, and I literally never went back to Skyrim. The exploration wasn't as robust, but the combat was way more fun to me.
@Darknyht
I was always more of a Mortal Kombat fan. It took me years to finally acclimate to the Street Fighter style. I was better at Tekken when I was introduced to Tekken 2 and Tekken 3. During those years, though, my Mortal Kombat interest waned, but came back slightly with Deadly Alliance on the GC, and returned with force in MK9. The combat appeals to me, and I'm loving the new one so far (despite only playing it for a couple hours last night). One thing I loved about Injustice was that it was finally "Mortal Kombat I could play with my kid."
Per graphics, my girlfriend and I were able to witness the change as she purchased Inquisition for the X360, and we were constantly aware of how surprisingly bad it looked, and then wanting it to simply look better was a partial inspiration for her picking up the XBO during the heavy price cuts over November. It's amazing the difference, although there's a catch there--it was pretty clear that DA: Inquisition was made as a next-gen title, and just "scaled back" for X360 and PS3, which means nothing about the game was visually optimized, so it lost a lot of fidelity. With Mortal Kombat X's delay on last-gen, it may be that Netherrealm wants to ensure that some of that graphical fidelity is not lost.
Overall, though, I'm constantly amazed how things look these days. Our in-game characters look more robust, detailed, and alive than the best FMV from two generations ago. I remember when Tekken 3 was practically the height of FMV quality in gaming--and the in-game environments of MKX or Bloodborne absolutely blow those old movies away. Bayonetta 2 looked simply stunning, and XCX still looks just incredible (not looking forward to the load times on that one, though) and I really can't complain about this "downgrade" in graphics. Like I said, it was probably a side-effect of refining the game and smoothing out bumps in the engine to make the overall experience run as smoothly as possible--as well as trying to cram all that data onto a single Wii U disk, that for some reason, is only 25GB.
@Yorumi
I may give Star Ocean 5 a try, but I've never played a Tales game and have never been a big fan of JRPGs in general. I think after Final Fantasy VI on the SNES, I tried a couple on the PS1 and was just bored to tears. It didn't help that I'd apparently picked one of the worst JRPGs ever in Final Fantasy VIII (snooooooooooooooze), but Legend of Legaia was okay for a while, but neither held my interest for long.
I think this is why Xenoblade appealed to me, because of the heavy WRPG elements strewn throughout. It was free exploration, it was rife with fast-travel and side quests, it was action-packed instead of clicking through dull menus. My favorites in recent years have been Fallout 3, Mass Effect 1-3, and Kingdoms of Amalur. Having a largely WRPG feel is also why Fantasy Life appealed to me--although it is a bit more rigid than XC.
So I can't say I'm a huge RPG fan in general, although I like anything with RPG elements (which is almost every game now), like Far Cry 4. Most JRPGs tend to bore me. I never finished Bravely Default, and Etrian Odyssey 4 started becoming a slog. I did finish SMTIV, though, as I thoroughly loved that game.
Its hard to know really. What typically happens in game development is:
1/ You start with a nice pre-rendered sequence (which is what this looks like)
2/ You finish the game
3/ You replace the models + textures in the pre-rendered sequence with the same ones used in the game. This keeps it consistent, and makes it less obvious that its rendered.
This might be all that's going on - for any real comparison, you need to look at true gameplay footage.
@Cathousemaster
All evidence points to the original shots having been in-game, including the duplicated later footage. This idea that it was originally pre-rendered isn't even supported by this very article, and was never even considered before. You have to explain why the original footage is or looks prerendered, and it needs to be better reasoning than the known information--which strongly supports that it was not pre-rendered.
At no point was this even a consideration before it was magically invented today.
@Quorthon Yeah, i remember when I looked at Final Fantasy VII as amazing graphics. But then I always thought Final Fantasy Tactics had a better presentation.
I think the best for the XBO/PS4 is yet to come, but I also feel that way for the Wii U. I believe that Zelda for Wii U (not Windwaker HD) will squeeze every cycle out of that system, and Xenoblade Chronicles X should do close to that. I also expect to be amazed by whatever Retro has been up to.
With this gen, I am already hurting by missing Dragon Age and Batman: Arkham Knight, but I will really be sad when I see the next Mass Effect drop. It just isn't in our budget now for me to own multiple systems. I am counting on one day having a home PC capable of running them via Steam.
And while I am awed by the pretty graphics, Super HD and super fine graphics doesn't mean as much to me because I am playing on a 27" television or the gamepad most of the time. I just straight up miss a lot of it on our television (unless I want to park myself inches from the screen).
@Darknyht
Well, now I feel bad complaining about my TV being "only 42 inches" and "720." Your situation sounds a bit unenviable.
I think whatever Retro has will be the graphical peak for the Wii U. The game probably won't be as big as XCX, so they won't have to cut corners there to fit it on the disk. I'm frankly surprised it's been able to pull out the graphics we've seen in games like Bayonetta 2 and XCX, given that it's GPU is pretty much in line with the X360, but then, it has four times the RAM, which likely helps things.
@Yorumi
I'm always down for a new experience, and knowing that I'm probably not missing much by skipping the Star Ocean I saw on the X360 is helpful.
Slightly dissapointing to hear, but when you see the latest footage with the big landscapes and creatures...still impressive stuff!
I don't think so, the one difference that I can see is the "brightest" performance in the newest trailer, I mean the 2013 video is very dark compared with the 2015 video so isn't no much to compare with a "shady" and a little "blurry" graphics from the first one
since i only jumped aboard the hype train this month, no biggie.
@Quorthon You are wrong about the Wii U GPU
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed
I don't care how the graphic's look, downgrade them again it won't bother me. Regardless, this game is going to be amazing. The gameplay is the main reason why I'm getting the game. A huge open world to explore, tons of customization, dolls, even more customization for dolls, giant monster's(some that even make the dolls look tiny) and so much more.
The Story is up in the air until we get more info when the Japanese version get's released. I'm expecting either less exciting then the original game or surprisingly better.
The Graphic's doesn't matter to me, they could be just a slight improvement from the first game and I'd still play it. IMO graphic's are the last thing I worry about when it comes to a game. Graphic's makes a game "look good" and that's it. It's foolish to buy a game solely for the graphic's, the gameplay and story is what makes a game truly good.
@BRAINFOX yup i agree.
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