Not too long ago, in late September, Nintendo provided a major system update that enhanced the functionality of the Wii U and made changes to its functionality. Around that time there was also a change to the End-User License Agreement (EULA), which is a prompt of legal jargon that the vast majority simply agree to as quickly as possible.
YouTube user AMurder0fCrows did not agree, however, objecting to a passage in the document that stated Nintendo could apply updates and changes without notice; in practice, updating systems while they're in sleep mode, which in its most harmless guise could be uploads of SpotPass notifications. What this Wii U owner has documented is that, without agreeing to the amended EULA, the console cannot be used — software won't load until it is accepted, and as there's no option to decline the agreement the only workaround is to turn off the power. No agreement to the EULA, no more games.
You can see his video below.
There are valid points here, in that Nintendo — like its contemporaries in the tech industry — is 'forcing' agreement in order to continue using the system fully. There's no scope to decline.
While that's perhaps frustrating, it's also an inevitable and common part of modern technology and how we use it — especially as we demand substantial online services. As we've suggested in articles before, online and download content — games, books, music, films etc — are essentially 'leased' to us, in that the licensor can in theory remove access at any point. Yet the important point is that consumers do have some power, in that they control demand. If a company like Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft were to flagrantly abuse our trust and take away functionality, content or games, they run the risk of losing customers. They're in control, but they need consumers to be happy and promoting their brands; we'd argue that it's a relatively balanced relationship.
This video is interesting as a test, undoubtedly, though we suspect 99.9% of Wii U owners will, when the EULA is tweaked in future, simple scroll down and choose Accept.
[source techdirt.com]
Comments 159
Just press Yes already, unless you are a pirate and want to homebrew your Wii U.
This isn't a big deal to me. Nintendo hasn't been shady with their actions about these kinds of updates. The wording is what's scaring people. I trust Nintendo far more than Sony or Microsoft.
I read it (well, skimmed) before I pressed agree, and the agreement seemed harmless.
I don't mind this sort of stuff as I'm not a pirate, but I do worry that there might be something Nintendo is hiding from us about their consoles. Ever since the NSA revelation, I have been extremely cautious around technology.
Seems stupid to decline it anyways.
This is worrisome, at the very least... simply because if this one update was only for a change to the EULA, what will happen if the system automatically updates with another new EULA in the future, that you will have no chance in disagreeing to?
I think the previous comments don't quite understand that... if the EULA is relatively harmless now (for me, it isn't harmless) then what about EULA's in the future that you won't have a chance to disagree about?
@Azooooz I'd like to mention that piracy and homebrew are two separate issues entirely... and even so, that argument is a bit falacious. Are you saying that you have to want to hack your Wii U to disagree with this new EULA?
Why would you even disagree anyways?
Still not received anything to agree to, system is up to date, able to play games, download and purchase DLC..yet no new EULA document has appeared to stop me playing.
People actually read the user agreement?I just click on accept cause for some reason i trust Nintendo,they won't do something shady.But who knows it can change.
Sure, I understand not being given the option to disagree with something is an infringement on human rights, but Nintendo won't do anything to hinder other's enjoyment of their products. If they did something we didn't like, it would have a serious affect to an already damaged company, they can't risk losing anything else
@3DS Me neither the only thing I had was something related to it failing to work when Nintendo was updating something. (And when that is happening using the console is seriously annoying).
I trust Nintendo. They're not some fly-by-night company. I do try to skim through user agreements nonetheless, since I think it's just good practice to have some idea as to what you're agreeing to.
Did I just waste 15 minutes? Of course you had to agree, agree and play your games already. In five years the Wii U will be unsupported by Nintendo anyways so just click agree, play on, and enjoy. If you're going to pirate the thing just wait the five years.
I don't get why they are forcing the update, not that I wouldn't want the update, just the option not to as well.
@theswweet
The thing is, Nintendo has to you agree to a new EULA, so if it changes, they have to notify us. If its an update to fix a glitch or changes the menu quality, they don't have to notify you. They aren't going to make a giant change without notifying you.
Doesn't turning the WiiU off equal to not agreeing to the EULA? When you don't agree with a contract, you discard it.
But I don't like how Nintendo secures control without much insight. At this point, the only possible way to escape the EULA changes would be to keep the WiiU offline indefinitely.
@theswweet That's kinda what's worrying me as well. They can submit changes to the general system functionality without any notice.
While I don't think this'll directly affect gaming, there's always the possibility of them starting to monitor stuff or restricting access to certain things (like specific websites with the browser) that would dampen some people's experience.
You can always reset your Wii U to factory settings and unhook it from the internet......problem solved
Kaze_Memaryu The thing is, they aren't allowed to mess with your internet search results without changing the EULA without notifying you. If they did, they'd be open to millions of lawsuits as they changed a contract
By no means do I believe that Nintendo would do these worst case scenario things that this agreement enables, but just the fact that you have to give that consent is kinda bad. I always just agree to all of these, but I do understand why some people don't want to agree to such terms.
The guy in the video is an idiot. Basically every device has an agreement like this, and that includes FCC standards. It says it on tons of devices, that your device is legally required to accept interference, whether you like it or not. Then the video goes on to talk about cars and car manufacturers. He's missing the point. You still can't go 65 miles per hour in a 55 mile per hour zone, the government says where you can and cannot park, you have to stop at stop signs, etc.
The argument is invalid, 100%, unless this guy doesn't want to use HDTVs or cars anymore. In which case, his HDTV wouldn't even be on in the video. He's clueless.
I think the worrysome part here is the notion of taking away the ability to play the console offline not everyone is always connected to the internet even when readily available to do so.
I hope this isnt some agenda push that clearly failed last E3.
I dont intend to do anything on my wiiu but rendering it useless isnt going to fly especially the games we bought physically
@SCAR392 The thing about these type of EULA's is it is a grey area what can be enforced if anything.
The way to make it 100% enforcable is if something is signed prior to getting the console. But they won't do that. (They do for the devkits though).
@unrandomsam
It doesn't change the fact that he bought an FCC compliant device. They only use that sort of power for certain situations, like forcing you to update, because a loophole in network security, hacking, modding, etc.
They won't take your currently owned software away. They wouldn't have even licensed it in the first place, if that was the case.
The guy's car analogy doesn't even work with traffic laws, insurance, and so on. His HDTV wouldn't even be on in the video, because it is required to accept to interference by government standards.
Lol, some people just like to moan like it's the end of the world... got him what he wanted though, plenty of attention.
My understanding of the video is that he doesn't want his system updated or changed without him being the one to initiate the update, and gives the example of his PS3 loosing the "other OS" functionality due to an auto update. While I don't have an issue with auto updates (since most times the benefits outweigh the losses) I can appreciate his reasoning.
Just disconnect it from the internet
Just agree. It's not like they're saying,
"Once we've released out next system, we will reacquire you're Wii U system, and the software, and accessories that belong to the Wii U system"
The issue with the system updating while turned off is easily rectifiable.
Simply disable standby functions/quick start.
I chose to do this as it caused my external hard drive to spin up unnecessarily on a fairly frequent basis so I disabled said function in the ear of caution to potentially prolong the life of the drive.
@3DS Same here.
And what if I refuse the 3DS EULA? I was too impatient to read it after the latest update, so I simply declined.
Tbh i think Nintendo is setting a bad precedent here.
If i buy something i should be able to use it no matter what the company that sold it thinks. They can deny us updates if we do not accept new eulas (while i still think its bad) but forcing a update and tell us after the fact we need to accept the new eula otherwise we can not use the product any more.
And everyone who thinks he shoudl just accept is part of one of the biggest problems with the indutsry at the momen. Just accepting everything the publishers want to push down our throats.
This guy does not trust Nintendo. I have trusted Nintendo my entire life. I doubt that they would do anything malicious. That is why I am fine with them. I know with 100% certainty that they will not try to hack my SSID or anything like that. This is why most of things that he says are BS. The worse that they could do is lock us out of third-party titles such as Hulu or Netflix. Maybe, if other companies go crazy such as Konami or Tecmo, then they might lock us out of games such as Ninja Gaiden and Castlevania. That is their decision, but I trust Nintendo for life.
This isn't even news...
The Wii U is an online device, by it's very nature it is assumptive to the changes in its environment, namely updates. I'm all for anti materialism, yet Nintendo is the only company by my count offering both free online community services and backwards compatibility with Wii software.
My advice? Stop crying, and go complain about companies who deserve legitimate criticism.
Now that I think about it why couldn't they just disable the online functions rather then the whole console you know like other companies do?
I'm sorry but if you buy a dvd/bluray movie (for example), you are also agreeing with the publisher that you would only use/watch it for home use. You are not allowed to use/reproduce it for commercial/business use. This is the same as forcibly agreeing with EULA when using/buying a console products like the Wii U. The difference is, they have means to control the product. Look at movie streaming services for example, they (publisher/service provider) can also refuse/deny you the service if they find you abusing it because they have a control to it.
@Sinister Tech has changed over the years- part of the updates Nintendo issues compensates and patches for much of the third party software which is sensitive to previous niggles in the hardware programming. Not Nintendo's fault, but the developers'.
@Azooooz piracy and homebrew are different things.
Personally I haven't updated because I use my wii u to play gamecube games through vwii devolution (this homebrew features anti piracy measures and means you have to rip your own games and verify them first).
Gamecube functionality is something Nintendo can do on wii u and just don't.
If you have an alternate OS then use it. They need to lock down the OS to provide the best/consistent user experience across the board for any purchased software.
As for the example, the car companies would NEVER allow custom software that controls the engine, breaks, etc... If you did modify an automobiles software you would have no right to sue if anything failed and in turn would, likely, be sued.
You are under no obligation to accept the new agreement and can revert your system to day one specs and use any purchased software that would run on day one specs according to that user agreement you clearly accepted in the past.
@MasterGraveheart
Yeah, especially Microsoft.
Back in the 90's....
i don't know why people are getting upset about this, i prefer playing my wii u then waiting to play because of long updates. its not like people read the user rules anyways. i would like to get noticifications of new updates when updated though.
I doubt the agreement could truly be legally binding anyway though, since by threatening to take away your right to play your games it's basically blackmailing you into accepting the agreement. Just agree and disconnect from the Internet if you're truly paranoid that Nintendo is going to mess up your system. It's not a real agreement if they've given you no option to disagree.
If other company than Nintendo did this, you wouldn't be pissed as you are now, would you?
Even though its likely to be harmless, he has a point. You own the system and Nintendo is telling you how to use it.
It's like the Xbox One DRM debacle. Microsoft was telling you exactly how to use their system and people got really peeved about it. Even though you bought the system, you don't have all the freedom to do what you want with it, despite it never being necessary to begin with.
What if they released an update that completely messes up the OS? case and point iOS 8. In the end no compony should force an update. You are always going to have hackers.
@Kyloctopus You have the right to use the system as it was intended to be used. You do not have the right to install illegal software, or pirate games.
is it news? idiot films himself on youtube
I don't care honestly, it allows me to not have to update on my own, would have been nice if they just had an auto update option instead though
@theswweet
If ever a license agreement gets to the point of being so malicious that you'd rather not even play the console then agree to it, perhaps it's time to stop playing.
Everyone talks of this theoretical malicious intent that "hypothetically could be one day" but I say let's cross that bridge when the time comes, because I suspect that time will never come.
...This guy is acting dumb. Who cares if you actually agree with everything or not? Just hit accept and turn off automatic updates, but nope, this guy has to make sure he agrees with everything there. I update my 3DS all the time, and I'm not 18, but I don't take my 3DS to one of my parents just so that they can tap the "Accept" button. Unless the agreement says that after agreeing your soul belongs to Nintendo, just hit "agree", ignore it, move on, and enjoy your system.
That said, Nintendo probably shouldn't lock down and disable a system like that, but the solution is so stupidly simple it really doesn't even matter.
@Dipper723 You're not unable to have the right because Nintendo told you not to. You're unable have that right because it's against the law. The man never stated his intention was to pirate and considering there is no way to pirate on the Wii U as of typing this, I don't think that was the main intention.
This agreement actually goes against topics such as Mario Kart 8 homebrew. At the moment we know one group is in the middle of modding the game to gain a competitive scene and I'm sure someone out there wants to do something similar with the upcoming Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, like what happened with Project M. Project M has grown to become quite popular in the fighting scene. This End-User Agreement goes against modding which some people are justified to be angry about.
@Kaze_Memaryu @Gerbwmu @TheJebou @unrandomsam @millarrp @Sinister @Obito_Tennyson @DarkLloyd @ReigningSemtex @TheKachoMan @justlink @2Sang @Gamecubed @blackbox64 @Pink_Floyd @Kyloctopus @theswweet @MasterGraveheart Shouldn't worry to much, the terms and conditions themselves have not changed and as far as I know it should be nothing more than a random glitch, here compare for yourself:
http://web.archive.org/web/20121228061441/http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp
Just click the Wii U tab and go to eula, you be the judge and remember as the eula clearly states ***"By using your Wii U, you are agreeing to be bound by the terms of this agreement."***
Also he said to me, and I quote "It does not at all matter if you believe the terms in the EULA have not changed. NINTENDO THEMSELVES pushed a message to my console stating that the EULA has been updated.
That said, ***it also doesn't matter if I agreed in the past*** (i wouldn't have in my present mindset, and as i mentioned, it remains to be seen as to who actually agreed to this thing. In the here and now, the system is in my possession and no one else is using it).
The fact is that i do not agree to what i'm seeing now, and i'm being presented with information that the EULA has been updated, modified, or changed in some way. "
Agree or don't play, seems fair to me.
Besides, pirating and home brew shouldn't be tolerated anyways. There should be a sort of kill switch for stuff like that, and then it should be updated whenever it is breached. I know home brew is different, but it opens a huge can of rotten worms.
@Kyloctopus said: "This agreement actually goes against topics such as Mario Kart 8 homebrew. At the moment we know one group is in the middle of modding the game to gain a competitive scene and I'm sure someone out there wants to do something similar with the upcoming Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, like what happened with Project M. Project M has grown to become quite popular in the fighting scene. This End-User Agreement goes against modding which some people are justified to be angry about."
AKA, illegal software.
I don't know guys, this person seems to have a point. But still I just click agree anyways
Just agree so you will easily forget about it in under ten seconds.
... Unless you're a pirate, then it's your own fault.
Good for him for reading, but he seriously thinks that Nintendo is doing something shady? Nintendo just wants an open doorway in case there is a rough update that needs to be addressed quickly, and I assume to fight piracy. The idea he has about it becoming a DVD player or something equivelant is just absurd. He's forgetting that if they did something like that, it would destroy their business.
I find it a little sad that he hasn't used his PS3 in 2-3 years, and now the Wii U can join that pity party. That just seems like more of a waste than just accepting the terms that only want to improve upon the customer experience.
While I love Nintendo and don't believe they would do anything bad to my system, I still think this is wrong. It does not technically violate any laws or agreements, but restricting my access to the system I bought with my money until I do something Nintendo wants (whether or not I agree with it) seems very distasteful.
@Kasplat I checked some archived web pages: "http://web.archive.org/web/20121228061441/http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp" and saw no change in the eula since launch whatsoever including the statement that ***"By using your Wii U, you are agreeing to be bound by the terms of this agreement."*** still, I have no idea what the "update" in eula is, all I can find is that's either a random glitch or may be the change is that it now shows you the eula after every update.
wow. people actually READ the EULA?
@Nintendo_Ninja I am not comfortable with something like that because online functions not working is one thing the whole thing being basically useless at a later date is not something I find acceptable.
@xj0462 Well, you should. Maybe not Nintendos, as they are rather trustworthy, but with companys like Microsoft for instance, its best to read the EULA. They are known to make deals about your soul...sometimes literally...
@Einherjar why, it takes like an HOUR to read one paragraph
Why would you disagree anyway? Who has time to read all that poooooooooooooooooooooop? You'd need a Philadelphia lawyer to explain some of it anyway!! Just hit agree n get gaming!!
@Dipper723 Mod's aren't illegal. That is why Nintendo has not gone after something like the Newer mod that makes NSMBW actually fun.
Doesn't Nintendo give users the option to turn off auto-updates in the settings? He would have to agree with the EULA before he can switch that off though. Personally I don't mind auto-updates, it's more convenient for me. Though admittedly I don't think an update has ever automatically installed, I've always heard about the update on the internet & then had to go manually update in system settings, despite having auto-updates turned on. Oh well.
@xj0462 Why ? Because YOU agree to stuff like that.
Example case from here:
There was a famous local producer of photo manipulation software. With agreeing to the EULA, you gave up ownership rights to every photo you loaded into the software. They were also made trackable through manipulation of their hash value /technical stuff, im no expert)
We had a case, in which a person was sued by that company for uploading HIS vacation fotos online. Since they didnt give permission to share these pics that were manipulated with their software.
THAT is some of the stuff you agree to and that is why you should read an EULA from time to time.
@unrandomsam Softwaremods arent, asl long as they are non commercial. Hardwaremods on the other hand are. And thats part of pretty much every EULA. Ranging from loss of warranty to remotly bricking the system or worse.
@Einherjar yeah ok, but do they need to make it so damn long!?
You buy a license, and there are terms attached. Nintendo have lost a lot of money thanks to pirates, and I'm not surprised that they are doing this to combat it. The only people upset by this are those who are pirates, as anyone else would like waking up to am already updated console and being able to play as soon as you want instead of having to wait for the update first.
Any pirate or even other person upset about this should just not have their Wii U left connected to the Internet.
@xj0462 Yup, because they need to include pretty much everything that is remotely of importance.
If you want an example of a very short and lighthearted EULA, read Mojangs. They got rid of any trace of formal speach and boiled it down to "buddy talk".
A very good example if you ask me.
But you wont be seeing this with companys the scale of Nintendo. They need to guard themselfes from eventual law suits. And the best way is, to lay out EVERYTHING the user may or may not do.
Thats something like the warning "may contain traces of nuts" on a package of peanuts.
Its obvious and yet, it needs to be mentioned so that nobody can sue you when suffering from an allergic reaction to nuts from your product.
Seen the recent RedBull case ? They were sued because their dring didnt grant you wings...Thats why EULAs are so damn long.
Youll probably see a: *does not actually grant you wings
at the end of a RedBull commenrcial from now on
@unrandomsam @Einherjar hardware mods probably come under the "reverse engineering" part or something like that. Yes, software mods are fine, but if they require a hardware hack then bad luck.
When 99% of people who hack their hardware do so to play pirated games (most home brew is just emulators as well), it's silly to use the mod defense and many just won't believe you that you only want to use it for mods.
@ReigningSemtex How many home brew programs are free? How many consist of emulators with pirated ROMs or other pirated software?
It's like those who say their illegal gun is not for criminal purposes but for self defense.
A bit Draconian, don't you think Nintendo?
@MadAdam81 Yup, exactly. Over here, its filed under reverse engeneering and a handfull of other clauses.
Thats also why softmods are so sought after, since they happen in a legal grey area.
Also, color me a "1%er" As i hardmodded any console that is not commercially sold for backup and translation purposes, but not to pirate games
maybe if they change it into mario jumping and hitting a block then collecting a 1up no one would complain and it would be fun
@Einherjar it wasn't because it didn't grant literal wings but because people bought the marketing hype that it improved your performance, and it didn't.
Just like Disney's Baby Einstein range that didn't fulfill the advertising promise that it would help make babies smarter.
@chiefeagle02 Not at all. They ask you if youre ok with using the system like its menat to be. If you decline, you might as well not use the system at all.
Its their right.
This guy also ignored the last paragraph of the agreement
@Einherjar oh, i see
@MadAdam81 Oh ? Hm, seems like our news people were on BS duty then
Well, it doesnt really change the problem. Its a caffein dring, coke doesnt grant these buffs, why should RedBull ?
It is common knowledge / sense. But is was a perfect attacking point. Like i said, THATS why EULAs are generally stock full of stuff, nobody really needs to know, just for law suit protection-
Well I at least watched the first part and his argument is entirely irrelevant for this case. The European Union ruled that digital games can be sold. For example, if you sold the Wii U and left the games and account on them, the new person can use the account legally. This however does not invalidate all of the EULA
It stinks that it makes the system unusable, but not for his reasons. Nintendo is the only one that makes you agree to use your system offline. I think they should do it like the other two. Now on to his problem about Nintendo being able to change the Wii U at anytime. He can agree to the update, and disconnect the system from the internet. Solving the problem. Nintendo can't change what they can't connect to. If he had actually thought about that, he would have seen the workaround. And he wanted to connect to the internet for an update or something, he could see what Nintendo has done to the Wii U, if he's not unhappy with it, he can just connect to the internet, and disconnect it again.
What happens if you just remove your wifi settings. (I don't want to test it). Does it do the trying to connect to Nintendo Network thing every time something is started up ?
What happen if the console tried to install itself, in the sleep mode, while the power is off in the middle? Will it brick the Wii U machine?
@2Sang they arent forcing it if you chose to download and install it.
No one reads EULAs anyway... Remember this?
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2010/04/15/online-shoppers-unknowingly-sold-souls/
What an idiot, a 5 year old can figure out if you don't press "Yes" on a agreement. Your going to get kick out or shut down what ever the case may be. In any device or contract if you disagree on something your going to get kicked out. So he's an idiot.
A System Update bricked my unmodded PS3.
And I have no intention of buying another Sony console after that debacle.
Nintendo just forced updates, so I hope for THEIR sake that their updates don't backfire on them.
To make a comparison, you may be running a version of Windows that you're perfectly satisfied with. When Microsoft sends out an automatic Windows update, at some point you're forced to restart your machine and let the update install. After having done so, you might find some unpleasant changes to the way Windows works. There are a number of reasons to not want that kind of update. So when you're talking about a video game console, the situation is similar. In fact, one Wii U update made changes to the web browser, and really did not like those changes. I had no warning and no option to decline the update. I think it ultimately comes down to the modern problem of buying a device with an incomplete operating system. There's no guarantee of stability whatsoever. So if you would, at some point, prefer to opt out of some system update for the Wii U.... well, you don't have that option. If you don't accept automatic updates without warning, you can't use the machine... and there is something bizarre about that.
I suppose it's a matter of principle.
I press agree because I've already come to the conclusion that in order to use a certain product I HAVE to agree to the terms anyway just to use ANYTHING. Software on my PC or my Consoles or heck my Phone.
All of these End User Agreements even have the "We can change these at anytime" part too.
So I'm not really too worried about the WiiU's situation.
What I am concerned about is that part about "You're not sold anything." That concerns me and also the fact the End User Agreement doesn't have a "Opt out" option. The PS3's case actually has an Opt Out option it's a letter but you can opt out of the end user agreement (If I recall It's a letter but the point is you can still opt out of the agreement and use the console.)
What Nintendo is doing here I think is pretty illegal. (unless there's no law against it.)
It's really the principle of the matter. Someone should not be locked out of their console just because they disagree with some of the terms (they should still be able to use it offline at least if that's what has to happen). I trust Nintendo and would agree anyway, but letting Nintendo make changes without further permission is kind of worrisome. For example, I've seen user interfaces for computers and phones change over the years, and I never liked the newer ones. If they automatically changed without giving the option to update, then I wouldn't like that.
Besides, with the potential for updates to brick or cause glitches, I would rather download later than others so I can see if there's a problem with a particular update before I determine it's safe.
Never trust anyone or agree to anything without checking first.
It astonishes me how gullible people are in the modern world.
Great "How to" video. Now I know a neat trick for making my very own expensive paperweight.
What I want to know is what's the absolute worst Nintendo could do in an EULA anyway. They don't hold much data about me and there's nothing much that they can really collect. Worst case scenario they know what my email address is and how many hours I've put into Animal Crossing. We live in an age where we hold bucketloads of photos, personal communications and all sorts in our pocket. And you're worried about the Wii U automatically pushing out firmware updates? Give us a break.
I think I agree with most of the cynics so far. The only reason I can think of that you'd actually want to disagree with their EULA at any point is if you wanted to pirate content. And don't give us the "it's homebrew" crap, we live in the smarphone age. You have a super computer in your pocket. Sorry, this is about piracy. Nintendo make it easy for you to play their games, there's no excuse. So get over it.
@Jazzer94 I haven't seen the video but can he access the settings to disconnect it from the internet? If not, I guess he could disable his WiFi entirely and do it that way, but I don't know if that'll fix it.
It has been said many times, but seriously. What ever you use, you accept the agreement.
You create bankaccount, agreement.
You install programme to your pc/tablet/phone, agreement
You install any gama to your pc/phone/tablet, agreement
You register to NintendoLife, agreement
Any service or messageboard or anything - agreement.
If you just play the games they offer, there's no reason to decline.
Hah, the only agreement (ToS) I read more carefully are the changes that Facebook makes Oh well, I never post anything that I'd regret later.
There is a problem because they force out updates which means that even if the firmware update creates a problem for your console you can't refuse it and go back to the older firmware
The guy in the video didn't even read all of the way through EULA. He should have atleast Informed himself fully what he's disagreeing to before he even rang Nintendo to complain.
Besides, since when have Nintendo ever done anything to the OS of their consoles that nobody wanted, or impacted the way we use the console's. Imo, they've always improved the OS. And even when glitches have appeared, they've always fixed, and pretty quick at doing so.
If the guy in the video is gonna use the car analogy, then he wouldn't buy a car and get part way through learning how to drive before he sets off at 100mph down the road.
I smell a bit of homebrew, aww poor guy just accept the agreement idiot
Yeah, Nintendo is such a bad company for making you agree with their terms and conditions of use. No other companies ever do that. Ever.
I never received this so I guess that youtuber is either a hacker or homebrew user.
@Tsurii897 They're not restricting you in any way when you use your console? What?
If I didn't want to accept the EULA I'd be SOL, since until I agree to it my system might as well be a brick. Even if I didn't do anything besides decide I didn't like the changes to the EULA, apparently that is grounds to terminate any games I had purchased.prior.
@Grumblevolcano A hacker or a homebrew user? I've never done anything like that, and I've had EULAs pop up after updates since launch.
Why is everyone assuming he's a pirate? Literally what makes anyone think that; are people not allowed to criticize Nintendo?
I love their system, and I love their games - but this situation is still messed up.
For people saying "this only matters if you are a pirate" you are completely missing the point, this is essentially the same abuse as Sony saying you will never actually own this hardware you payed for, it is instead a permanent rental owned by them forever that they can do whatever they want with after you purchased it including the right to always brick it at their leisure without your consent or unless you always do as they say.
It's a completely anti consumer practice that Apple lost the right to do in court with smartphones because a company does not still own something that they sold, but Sony somehow succeed in for video game consoles, in turn allowing other video game companies the same right.
As Futurama put it...
Prof. Farnsworth: Oh God! I clicked without reading!
Cubert: And I slightly modified something I own!
Prof. Farnsworth: We're monsters!
It's a joke on this practice for those who don't know what Futurama is.
@MadAdam81 all homebrew programs are free and no homebrew emulators come with roms or other people's code because then it would be illegal
Did you just compare modding consoles to taking someone's life? lol
I don't think I've recieved the agreement. How do I get the agreement to show up? Does it happened automatically when turning the system on? Do I have to go into settings and update the system even though I already have to latest System Update that has shown up on my Wii U when furning the system on and getting a new system update is availible. What do I do to trigger it???????????????
Nintendo have a lot of good will with me so I don't really care about this kind of thing. Now, with Apple products, I always click decline!
I encourage everyone to hand write Nintendo some well mannered but stern letters regarding things like this, and forcing advertisement on you through mandatory game updates.
Remember to write your (relatively) local arm of Nintendo, or you'll get a polite but dismissive reply saying you should do so.
I like nintendo and I don't care about these new Rules , Nintendo is just a company not a friend, and they do what they have to do to survive in the modern age of gaming. Just like every other company, if you read every EULA you'd probably go grey.
I (attempt to) read the whole thing. They could say practically anything, and nobody would bat an eyelid!
Example: http://rt.com/uk/191868-parent-wifi-children-internet/
slow news today huh? >.>
I have never seen this on my Wii U and I have the system since launch. Is this in the EU version of the Wii U?
Although EULAs may seem innocuous enough and simply look like a company is protecting its products/assets, actually this is quite an important issue for consumers of all electronic devices. According to consumer groups, changes to EULAs are essentially forced mandates and can often run contrary to law as they are not put through any legislative process. It's definitely a principle thing - should any company be able to impose any condition post-purchase and prevent you from using your stuff that was governed by different conditions at time of purchase if you don't agree? EULAs were introduced in the first place so that companies could limit warranties and disclaim liability. They aren't there to protect consumers and certainly curtail any user choice. Sure, you can refuse to agree to a new EULA, but if that means you can't use your device at all even under the previous conditions, is there really any choice? Just because a company states that it can change the terms at any time doesn't mean that the changes will always be legal!
This is nothing new, PCs have been doing this for years. Though depending on where you live some of what you agree to is in fact against your local laws and cannot be enforced.
Why is this a thing still. It's idiotic.
Do you have an iPod? A smart phone of any kind? Pretty much any commercial computer software? A credit card? Then guess what, you've agreed to far more restrictive Eula's. Nintendo's is way less strict than the ones for any of these things.
And guess what else. Those things don't work if you don't agree to their Eula's either.
If you don't agree to the EULA at time of purchase you are supposed to return it to the store for a refund. The EULA even says so. That's why there's no decline option. Not agreeing to the agreement means you're deciding you don't want the license, which means you can't use it.
This is just more of the dumping on Nintendo for doing things every company does crap that's been going on for at least the last year.
as long as they don't try and sneak in a human centipad clause in there then I'm happy to click agree.
The only time Nintendo are gonig to block a WiiU or software is if you're running homebrew, pirate software, act like an idiot on miiverse, or use the internet browser for illegal use.
I have never heard of one instance where Nintendo have ever blocked an individual system, or it's software without good reason what so ever. There needs to specific reason before the take any action.
Since when has any update negatively impacted the way we play games on our consoles,?
such colossal levels of ignorance from a lot of the commenters here, it's quite sad to see.
"it's ok because i trust nintendo"
"violating an EULA is against the law"
"anyone who disagrees with an EULA is a pirate"
"homebrew is the same thing as piracy"
you make these statements as if they were true, and they simply aren't.
and to be completely blunt, @ThomasBW84 and the rest of the NL staff are fostering this attitude in their reporting of these issues. constantly footing around the issue, ostensibly to be seen as 'impartial' and 'opening the topic to debate', but it doesn't help to describe homebrew as a 'morally grey area' in a recent article, but neglect to inform readers of the actual legal realities.
how about an article on exactly that topic, @NLTeam, don't you feel that it would be helpful to inform your readers of the actual legal rights they have, even if the legal truth is inconvenient to Nintendo?
@eza
That's like asking the secret police to reveal mass censorship, I suspect your request will be ignored...
@ZenTurtle sadly i think you're absolutely right.
amusingly, this comment i just read over on the linked techdirt article says:
"IN the European Union because there is no way to disagree with the EULA and to continue using the product REQUIRES acceptance, this renders the entire EULA null and void as no party may compel a change to a contract or terms without the compliance of the other party. (i.e. you can't FORCE people to accept changes or the person being forced is legally allowed to treat the contract as though it didn't exist in its entirety.)."
"ANd the fact that the EULA is identical doesn't change the EU situation. Because there is no way to DECLINE the EULA, the entire thing basically doesn't legally exist anymore...people are free to mod their consoles!"
which would be amusing!
The only time I would become upset over this is if, like Sony, Nintendo started to remove features that were implemented into the system os (example being Playstation removing other os support). Some people buy systems for its features and when you remove them then Force people to agree to it then you get problems. Nintendo is constantly adding more and more to wiiu so as long as it gets better and better then why does it matter. Just wait till the end of the consoles life cycle to mod it if you just have to...
@ZenTurtle @eza
I think perhaps that pinning down what is legal and what consumers' rights are regarding EULAs and the associated issues of homebrew and piracy is exactly the problem. No offense intended to NL staff, but it looks way too complicated an issue to be definitively dealt with by people without the legal training to keep themselves from being sued. I can see all sorts of trouble for anyone saying such and such is legal and such and is not legal... That's not really for journalists, albeit game journalists, to dictate. I certainly wouldn't take the risk. There are too many conditions in law that make something applicable or not applicable in any particular case. Sure, outside sources could be used, but those would still have to be seen to be reliable and they have exactly the same problems as anyone at NL.
I never thought I'd see the sort of spam in comment #133 on Nintendo Life... Everyone report them! Do not reply!
Now, it's gone.
Wake up Sheeple! Nintendo is up to something! WiiU contains none of the letters of "Sky Net". Coincidence ? I think not! This is a preemptive denial! A suspicious denial!
@Dipper723 Homebrew isn't illegal. Modding a game is not illegal. Everyone does it in the PC industry. There are modders and homebrewers out there who have good intentions and want to improve a game, like Super Smash Bros, or Super Mario 3D World, or Sonic Lost World and now they're only legally not able to because Nintendo has legally binded these people not to, which is sad because it means we'll never get user-made content like this.
@Sakura - Respectfully, I would argue that what you have described is exactly what a good journalist should do: to research the subject matter properly and to speak to experts in relevant fields, in order to report the news in a responsible manner.
I agree that the topic is a legal minefield, but all lawyers love to see their names in print, and to get a definitive legal standpoint for the jurisdictions most representative of the NL readership and report on it shouldn't be difficult.
@ZenTurtle
AHHH!!! REPORT, REPORT, REPORT!!!!
To people claiming that EULA is law: no, that is not true. EULAs are some forms of contracts, which terms might actually be illegal, stripping them, or even the whole EULA from any legal value. And even if the EULA does not contain anything like this (and this EULA definitely contains such clauses), breaching a contract is not illegal per se.
Putting homebrew aside (and obviously piracy, which is illegal and harmful no matter how you look at it), there are legitimate reasons to not agree with an EULA. Like not wanting to grant Nintendo the rights to use your user-generated data how they see fit. Or automatically update your console.
Again, without considering homebrew (or piracy), there are legitimates reasons to not want your software automatically updated without your consent. That includes, for instance, modified user interfaces you might not appreciate as much, loss of functionnality (e.g., Playstation 3's Other OS), or new bugs.
By the way, they already did this kind of things with Swapnote (and I actually believe they breached their own Terms of Service by not announcing it beforehand: if I remember correctly, they can cancel services without you breaching the contract, but they have to announce it beforehand).
Edit: Also, one of the issues here (in addition to the EULA itself), is that if Nintendo updates its EULA, you are forced to agree with it, or you lose everything you had previously. Even if you agreed to the previous terms, but not the new ones.
@eza, I do not believe running homebrew is (or should be) illegal. However, that really depends on how, and where you do it. Law is incredibly complicated and widely dependent on the country you live in.
@ZenTurtle
It has already been deleted so #133 is no longer a spam post.
@Blue-Thunder There has to be a law first though. If there is none, the courts will not rule in your favor.
@eza I agree completely about good journalistic practice and I concede I may be being too generous, but I still feel it is outside the remit of this site as it's more investigative journalism than reporting and getting it wrong could be very damaging.
@wombatkidd An EULA on something you buy only applies if a signed contract is completed first prior to getting the goods.
@eza The thing is games journalists are basically PR not journalists.
This just in, not accepting the licenses agreement means you can't use a product.
@Einherjar: Oh I know, but I don't like it either.
this guy sucks im sorry i watched it and gave the video a view
@unrandomsam
There actually are a handful of places in the world where that's not true. But that's actually part of why this is so stupid anyway and just helps prove my point. You have to accept the EULA to use the device. All of the devices i mentioned and more. And you just should because it probably isn't legally binding for you anyway unless you live in one of 5 us states.
OK, he's a huge nerd, but he does have a point. It's a point that should have been made over a decade ago when companies like Microsoft and Sony started "licensing" their products to customers rather than selling them, but it's still a valid point nonetheless.
Nintendo is entering an online world that has been well-defined by much shadier companies. Based on EULAs, and barring any local laws to the contrary, online companies would have us believe:
1. We are selling you a license, not a product.
2. Even after you spend a ton of money to license our product, we can take it away from you at any time for any reason whatsoever.
3. You can't resell your product because you don't own it; therefore, you have no recourse to receive any kind of return on your investment.
4. If you don't like any of this, too bad. Your one option is to not use the system you paid for but don't own, and you won't be receiving a refund.
5. We still expect you to fork over money like the sheep you are despite these draconian terms.
The sad thing is, for the vast majority of people, they are absolutely correct. Companies like Apple, Microsoft, Sony, Electronic Arts, Ubisoft, Blizzard (the list goes on) have shown repeatedly that this is the case. And they will continue to push it further and further into absurdity (um, anyone still remember the original plan for game licenses on the Xbox One?); unless and until the consumers start using their purchasing power and legal resources to show them that it doesn't work, there is no deterrent for them from finding more ways to screw consumers.
Now all that said, while every company is playing in the same arena and most or all of them will have BS like this buried in their EULA for that reason, not all companies are equal. I firmly believe the current leadership of Nintendo would not dream of trying to pull some of the crap that Microsoft and EA have tried in recent times (or in EAs case, not-so-recent... seriously, WHY do they still have customers??). I think in Nintendo's case they are following the standards set by companies before them and at the same time trying to protect their systems from becoming havens for hackers and thieves. While I don't necessarily agree with being forced to accept terms you might not like to use their system, I do trust that they aren't looking for ways to abuse it and upset the loyal fan base that they have right now.
I never read these things, I just press yes.
The only problem I have is the fact that Nintendo essentially is blackmailing you into agreeing to these new terms, which is not only a breach of morals, but is actually against the law! Nintendo is setting themselves up for a serious class action lawsuit.
If one actually reads the contents of the End User Agreement, you are essentially signing away a good deal of your rights over. I myself disagree with much of the privacy forfeiting, but I am especially concerned with these agreements starting a slippery slope which breaks down the First-sale Doctrine.
I do have issues with current digital download practices, which basically amounts to "long-term rentals" instead of truly owning the product you buy. Thus, I only digitally download products from services such as GOG.com, which are DRM-free, and allow me to download and burn copies of the program to other drives, at no extra cost, with no tracking programs. Digitally downloading products any other way gives you nothing to show for it, in the inevitable case of a service's demise. (Though it might be years or even decades later.)
I sympathize with the person who did not agree- I have only been using the Wii U as a Web Browser machine over the past year. Have not used Miiverse, bought new games, or downloaded anything. I will be disagreeing to the next system update out of principle. This is not about illegal activity for me, it is about the lack of morality in Nintendo's legal terms.
Nintendo did good by making hard drives a choice in storage data, but once again, just like with the Wii, they have failed to unlock their console's full technological and legal potential. It will be up to the modders to do so.
On a side note, I disagreed with the 3DS User Agreement, and it does not lock you out of the system, but it constantly pesters you, prevents you from making E-shop purchases or downloads, and prevents Miiverse interaction. Thus, I have given up these things.
I don't use a smartphone, I don't use Apple products in general, and I have given up on a lot of modern products, in favor of retro products, systems, and games which do not require me to agree to practically sign my soul away.
@Neko_Rukiafan Unfortunately, if you read the terms and conditions, a successful class action suit against this is nigh impossible. Nintendo's lawyers have done a fine job of indemnifying themselves against pretty much every possible infraction- and once we sign over and agree to those terms, there is no going back.
you might want to read up user agrements before jumping to Nintendo defence
https://www.eff.org/wp/dangerous-terms-users-guide-eulas
Another reason I wont be getting a wii u
https://www.eff.org/pages/unintended-consequences-fifteen-years-under-dmca
Under the section "5. A threat to innovation and competition":
Programmer George Hotz Sued By Sony, Apple Uses DMCA to Lock iPhone to App Store, Microsoft intimidates Kinect innovators, then backpedals, Tecmo Sues to Block Game Enhancements, StorageTek Attempts to Block Independent Service Vendors, Microsoft uses DMCA as Counterclaim for Antitrust Lawsuit, Sony Sues Connectix and Bleem, US Government Prosecutes Importers and Distributors of “Mod Chips”, and Blizzard Sues bnetd.org ...
It's clear that the big copyright holders are utilizing the DMCA to it's fullest extent to abuse it. It is desperately in need of reform, but the big money rollers have no interest in that happening.
@DilMan33 The antitrust situation in America already is out of hand- 3rd party products are disappearing from the market, because they are being disabled and locked out from being used, so only 1st-party approved products can be used. (For example, Microsoft disabling 3rd party memory storage on Xbox 360.)
people are stupid. If you don't agree to the SOFTWARE terms, you don't get to use the software (Wii U Firmware and OS). SImple as that.
I've never seen or agreed to any Agreement on the Wii U, since I have bought my system. So does this mean this things don't affect me? I don't think so, but it is still weird I never got this message ever. Not even when updating the system. Hmmm..
There's a line in the eula that says "by using your wii u, you are agreeing to be bound by the terms of this agreement" that line makes it so that the only way to fully disagree with the eula is to not use the wii u.
What exactly is this guy trying to do that he feels like he should dedicate a good portion of his life to whining about it rather than just accepting that he can't have everything his way. It seems like he either wants to do something shady... or he just likes arguing about semantics. If Nintendo issued a system update that states that they get to come into your house and slap you around and take off with your Wii U, then yeah, I can TOTALLY sympathize. Otherwise... it kinda seems like he should just deal with it and go on with his life and realize that it probably isn't REALLY hurting him in any significant way.
EULA are a Gray area at best, nintendo is capitalising on this by trying to erode our consumer rights by making us agree to what they think could be a legal binding agreement unfortunately a contract can't do that.
for a simple analogy its like me selling you a cow, tell you its only to be used to produce milk, i then find out that your using the cow that sold you, which you now own to make cheese. During the night i kill your cow because you have decided to use in a fashion ive decided you can't.
Its not up to nintendo what you do with stuff buy off them, and certainly isn't right morally or legally that a eula can used to null their potential malfeasance. There other issues too most people don't read licence agreements, it could be construed that nintendo intends to trick people to entering a contract with them and most certainly is illegal, since it widely accepted that most people don't understand legal jargon let lone read the agreements and that self is enough to make a eula null and void.
EULA's are nonsense anyway. Companies throw so much garbage in there, and so much of it is unreadable to the average joe with no understanding of legal terms, that of course everyone just hits agree without reading it. EULAs should be regulated by the government so that they aren't a bunch of nonsense companies use to screw consumers.
Didn't think anyone actually read these to begin with.
@Einherjar Your pretty funny
@Einherjar Your pretty funny
@PlywoodStick Get With The Times Its Time To Use The Internet Quit Livin In The Dark Ages
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