Satoru Iwata Cites Poor Basic Wii U Sales To Rule Out Price Cut Benefits

I cant believe he doesnt get most people dont want an 8gb model. I think hes kidding himself that part of the issue isnt there

A low price point alone will not sell a console. There has to be something to play on the unit. That has always been the case.

But there will be a price cut ... it may just come later rather than sooner.

EDIT — And everyone should know that the harder Nintendo says something is NOT going to happen, the more likely is that it WILL happen.

(I also would love to see more details on the Nintendo representative who gave Games Industry the info about the WiiU being sold for a loss. While I don't doubt that it is probably true, I do know that site generally does not view Nintendo kindly and sometimes has difficulty with the timeliness and accuracy of information.)

Iwata is either misguided or spinning the Wii U's poor performance disingeniously. Even with unofficial price cuts by retailers, the gimped Basic pack is even poorer value than the Premium set. And both of them are held back by the cumbersome Gamepad controller.

Exactly — Iwata is looking at this from a pure price point of view, and not at the fact that the 8GB is poor value in comparison. I actually went for a Basic system, only because it dropped to £150 on Amazon, and Nintendo Land also received a temporary reduction, making it a fair bit cheaper than the 32GB model.

Without any price cut though, I most certainly would have opted for the premium model - it's just common sense.

@Mahe there is nothing wrong with the controller. You sound like a broken record, "cumbersome gamepad". Youve been saying it on NL and pushsquare repeatedly. If you dont like the wii u stop reading its news. Its not rocket science.

I hope the short sightedness of Iwata and Nintendo as a whole doesn't end up pushing them out the hardware business. Why?

His comments indicate that there is no problem at all with the current sales and that the competition is not with Sony and Microsoft, but the two models of the Wii U. He thinks that people are willing to pay for a "premium" Wii U system due to better sales of the 32 GB model, but most gamers are smart to realize that the 8 GB model is a horrible value. Especially if the Xbox 360 launched in 2005 with 20 GB and it was considered small even then!

They need to realize that the competition is not between the Wii U models and is really against the systems coming out in a few months. Selling a $350 Wii U system compared to a $400 PS4 this holiday is going to be a rough one for them. If Nintendo doesn't cut the price, then unfortunately the retailers might have to. If they have to, they lose money on each system and make get a bad impression on Nintendo and stop carrying it. If they stop carrying it, it will push even more 3rd parties to drop support for the system.

The Wii U is already on life support for 3rd parties and many of the stronger ones like Ubisoft are viewing this holiday as a make-or-break time period for the future of their support. If the Wii U doesn't have any legs, then sadly companies like Ubisoft will leave and the Wii U gets closer to being a 1st party only console.

@Subie98

8gb was for ME the right choise. The money i saved, i can use on a external harddrive, so i get ALOT more space then 32gb. The rest of the things in the premium pack, is not something i wanted.. Nintendoland is booring, my wii u is not gonna stay on a stand on the table etc.. And i prefer White over black.

And i know ALOT of people thinks the same, and alot of people who bought the premium, understands know that the premium was a waste of money and a 8gb model + external would be a better choise.

But not all of course.. Just trying to make a point here, that your saying that 8gb is rubbish etc is just bull..

edit: And i agree with the nintendo guy, price is not the issue, the software is. We need more games. (Im happy at the moment, i play monster hunter )

Amen Iwata. I love my Wii U because the game I wanted came out already - Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate. I'm over 115 hours and still going strong.

Once the game that YOU want comes out, you'll buy a Wii U for $350 and not think twice. But until then, people are going to complain "there isn't enough games" when in reality, they just don't have "that one game I really want."

By end of Xmas, it's going to be better for Wii U. 3DS owning the industry right now is proof of that. How about a little more love stories of 3DS and a little less ripping on Wii U Nintendo Life? Buck the trend with 3DS stories (top 10 eshop/dsiware/vc titles). Have unique stories on your website, its a good idea!

I'm glad he's focusing on games, but that analysis he have made isn't accurate. There's a lot of other things to consider.

@XCWarrior Same here. I'm well on my way to 300+ hours in MH3U. It was the main reason I had to get a Wii U earlier this year.

@NintendoLink I said most people not all. And way to put words in my post that weren't there. I never said it was rubbish.

Steps, if followed, for Wii U will be profitable:
1- Stop producing Basic Set.
2- Stick with Deluxe Set and cut the price to $300.
3- Bundle, Bundles, Bundles.
4- More software should be released before the next fiscal year.

Iwata should use these steps.

Another thing that doesn't help the Wii U is that the big games from 3rd parties like Arkham Origins, Splinter Cell, and Watch_Dogs are also on the systems that many people already own (PS3, Xbox 360), so there is no incentive for someone to spend $300 for a system to play those 3rd party games on the Wii U.

In the past I have seen Microsoft pay for exclusive or time exclusive content for games like Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto to entice people to buy the Xbox 360 version of a game over the PS3. Should Nintendo do something like this to persuade gamers to pick the Wii U version over the others? Would Nintendo even pay for this or just hope that people would choose the Wii U version based on customer trust? Benefits of the gamepad? How would people even know the benefits of the gamepad if 3rd parties put little effort into it and consumers confuse the Wii U for a Wii addon?

hmm... I don't think this is a good way of looking at it, people don't buy the basic model because who buys a system to not play any games? The basic is $300 and the deluxe is $350 that comes with a $60 game so really, why would someone buy a $300 console when they would probably be buying a game with it. Over all the deluxe is cheaper so I think comparing the price with the Deluxe and the basic is kind of a stupid compassion.

@Subie98 I like parts of the Wii U and its game selection, but I dislike the cumbersome Gamepad. There, I said it again! That one word perfectly sums up my experience with the Gamepad and why I'd rather see the Wii U without it. Other fitting descriptors for the Gamepad would include "useless," "awkward" and "unnecessary".

So we're not going to talk about how the 8GB model sells less than the premium because it is simply inadequate, Mr. Iwata?

Also, do a better job at marketing your console. That will help too.

I think color alone is a big factor. But the Target $50 gift card helped (brings the DX Wii U to $300), as did the VC, Wii BC, the games from Pikmin 3 to December, and the games at E3.

Of course by the time I get done buying a Wii Mote, Nun Chuck, Wii U Classic Pro controller, regular Wii Classic Pro controller, some official Nintendo Component cables (since the Wii U can't do analog sound separate from HDMI) my end cost was just over $500 anyway for single player hardware. Then I have local multiplayer to worry about plus wearing out that expensive Gamepad which is yet available separately. For my PS4 I just buy an extra DS4 controller and I'm done. I miss that so much.

While I love the Gamepad, I still think that effective immediately Nintendo should make the Wii U Classic Pro controller the default pack in controller with the Gamepad sold separately for $100. This should bring the Wii U entry cost down to a competitive $200 and you could upgrade it latter like. While it would fragment the controller user base, it would sell more Wii U units for sure. Then make the future games playable on both methods of control, perhaps patch a few key titles.

Of course I would have made the whole system (scaled down in power) to fit inside the Gamepad, with a gorilla glass capacitive IPS touchscreen, a sort of super 3DS or Vita.

And for gods sake, patch the Wii U's Wii classic mode to use the Wii U Classic Pro controller.

@Mahe then sell your console or use the pro controller and be quiet. You sound like a child repeating the same thing over and over til the mass agrees with you. Say something new at least. I doubt that most owners hate the gamepad or else most intelligent people wouldn't buy something they over all dont like. You're obnoxious and ridiculous.

@Azooooz

Sell the Deluxe at a steeper loss than it already is to increase profits? that does not sound like a good plan.

I would purchase a Xbox One and a PS4 for $199. Will that increase Microsoft's and Sony's profits? no. These are all businesses and they need to make money.

Software sells the console. The software is coming. Iwata is just communicating to a impatient generation of consumers.

@Subie98 So much this. 8GB in today's tech age is nothing. I regret my 8GB purchase, but that $300 price was easier for me to swallow than the other one. I think it was only a week before I need to buy an external hard drive for my WiiU. And I still haven't done it. I ended up deleting NSMBU to make room for demos.

I don't think a price drop alone is going to do much for the Wii U. I don't really think it needs one. People have compared it to the PS4 price point, but lots of them forget that you have to tack on an extra $50-60 a year for the PS4 if you want to play online. Also, I don't think Sony has announced any bundles or game pack-ins. And, in all likelihood there will be two models at launch, meaning $400 will be their "basic" model price, and their other will cost more. Finally, Sony is kind of known for incremental pricing (proprietary memory cards for Vita, no HDMI cable for PS3, etc.), so if anything, $400 is just the bare minimum price.

Still, the Basic isn't a very good deal to begin with. That's why it isn't selling well imo. I've read people saying they bought the Basic and then got a TB harddrive for it for about $360-380 USD, which is smart, but most people aren't going to think to do that. The Deluxe at the price of what the Basic is now would be a much better deal, naturally. So I think for Iwata to compare the two scenarios isn't totally correct... then again, what do I know?

Comparing the two versions is hard, the premium pack offer way more for only 50 extra euros.
Then again I saw with my eyes that the price cut is NOT a solution...

A store in one of the biggest stations of Italy (thousands of potential clients passing there everyday!) set the premium WiiU at only 250€ as special offer on the last consoles in stock. 2 months later and the consoles are stll there O.O;

Good thing for me since tomorrow I'll go and buy one, but seriously, if a cut price of 100€ didn't work, then I think it's clearly just a matter of wait more softwares to come out

To the untrained eye, the problems are brand confusion and price. The trained eye either has the system or is waiting on a price drop and/or more games. The games are coming, so a price drop gets the educated gamer waiting to jump in.

Now the target becomes the untrained eye or less-educated consumer (moms, grandmas, etc. buying this as a gift). If you drop the Deluxe to $300 and get rid of the basic, that's one Wii U SKU that comes with a game and a tablet for $100 less than the cheapest next gen system. The untrained eye sees a system that is $100 more than the cheapest XBOX 360, but they also see it comes with a game, more memory, and a tablet. It's slightly more expensive than the PS3 bundles, but again, it features the table controller. The untrained eye will see it as the system that comes with its own iPad. There is enough there that the uneducated consumer can see a value.

The only other challenge to perception is the Wii itself, so it's time to retire the Wii. If the untrained eye sees a Wii for $125 or a "Wii with an iPad" for $300, he or she will buy the cheaper one. Eliminate the cheaper one, eliminate the confusion. Send decals to retailers to put on their display cases that say "White Packaging = Playable on Wii and Wii U, Blue Packaging = Playable only on Wii U." If the consumer can't figure it out, he can ask a sales clerk. I firmly believe that last Christmas when there were stories about the Wii outselling the Wii U, it was because confused relatives bought the wrong system.

@Cuddles it is too little for the price. I dont have any issue with the amounts offered. 32gb is plenty being I dont download games usually and the vc games dont take up much room. Id be crazy to download wii u games on it though. The memory would go fast then. I do however think if they are going to push digital wii u games they need to offer a lot bigger memory options for people not everyone wants an external hard drive. I personally am fine with an external but a lot of people arent. I have zero complaints about about my wii u. Id like to see more 3rd party but im not complaining either. Im also happy with my 32gb. I only think for the amount of gb it could be cheaper.

The Basic bundle is definitely a problem with them. I mean, for $50 more, you get a game sold at $60, a stand and cradle for the Game Pad sold at $20, and Wii U Console Stands at $10. Plus a promotion that gives you eShop credit for downloading games. It's no wonder as to why the Premium well outsells the Basic.

Why on earth did thay make an 8GB model is beyond me, stop making them. & the HDD should be changeable, the 8GB seems a waste of space. Thay should of made a basic 160GB model - 320GB model, because thay are adding an external HDD to the price of the Wii U.

Uh the basic model isn't a good example of a poor price point. It did badly becuase it was a horrible value compared to the deluxe model. If you could afford it why not not save up to get the ddp,the stands, and a game as well.

Iwata is right about the software. I preordered the system because of the promise of Rayman Legends as exclusive launch title. We all know how this deal ended. I still got my Wii U on day one just to satisfy my curiosity of the system. I had a blast with games I played on it (including Rayman Challenges App) but it's been mostly eShop titles, VC and, well... Wii games.

And they made a pretty big mistake calling it Wii U. With the first announcement at E3 I honestly was confused if it was a new system or just a cool new peripheral for the original Wii.

The premium bundle is just simply better value for money.

But in saying that, the reason why I bought the MH3U pack is because ZombiU and Nintendo Land on their own are under £20.00 on Amazon UK, MH3U is still £39.99. More enticing bundles are needed if anything...

@QBertFarnsworth I completely agree about the trained and untrained examples.

@Archgamer lol

There is not gonna be a price drop for the foreseeable future, and frankly I don't think the console needs it.

You know what they could do, though? Bundles. The Deluxe version is already a bundle at $350 - all they need to do is replace Nintendo Land with new bundled games. I don't doubt for a second that a $350 bundle with Wind Waker HD or Super Mario 3D World would sell units in droves.

Iwata, Basic Set isn't selling simply because the Delixe Set is simply a much better.

"The basic version should have sold a lot, but the fact of the matter is that people are buying more of the premium version."

For extra $50, you get extra space storage, more accessories, and free game. So we know the issue here, it's basic model.

Iwata is right.

ummm.....It's a white gaming system.

@X-Factor True, I'd never buy a white console again..

@ricklongo Right on. Nintendo takes out Nintendoland, replaces it with whatever 1st party IP they want, and they can print money. They could even replace Nintendoland with a Pro Controller and there would be a definite audience for it.

@Mahe Price isn't the reason why the system isn't selling... There have been massive unofficial price drops for both version of the console and its still not moving.... You can get the basic almost half off in the UK, and the premium for almost a third off.

if price were the factor for poor sales these unofficial price drops would have sold gangbusters. To run a business properly you must use as much information at your finger tips as possible to make a decision. You cannot use assumptions that much in business. We are assuming that a price drop would help, but plenty of evidence says thats not the case.

Iwata is correct in stating that the biggest barrier in selling this console is the deep lack of games... Pikmin 3, W101 and Wind Waker HD will help, but no where near as much as a DK, 3D Mario, Mario Kart and Smash would do for the system.... Unit sales of the Wii U is just going to remain pitiful until at least December. If it still sells like poo after December then it most certainly needs a price cut.

@element187

You can get the basic almost half off in the UK, and the premium for almost a third off

This is what did my head in a bit, knowing if i waited a few more months i would of got my Wii U quite a bit cheaper. But no one could of seen this coming, but games like The Wonderful 101 & Pikim 3 make-up for it. & ZombiU, NSMB not the best Mario but still good.

I don't get why the 8GB model exists (I don't get why a console with no hard drive exists in 2013 either, but that's another matter), but what I REALLY don't get is how Iwata thinks games are the only problem. They're by far the biggest problem, but the price is a major hurdle too. It's not so bad here in Europe where the Premium is £80+ than a PS4, but in America where it's only $50 that's hard to justify.

Nintendo seem determined to price the Wii U into irrelevance. With what it has, the Premium bundle should be £200 tops (maybe without Nintendo Land) and the basic bundle should be dropped. That would give it a precious selling point vs the PS4 and possibly 6 months wiggle room to get Mario Kart and Bayonetta out the door. It can take its chances from there.

just wait till black Friday and there will be white consoles with a few games for under $200. it seemed more like Nintendo pulled out all the 8gb units. I went to buy one but when I saw only black ones I gave up till the guy next to me offered to trade his to me. price is everything so stop thinking you are apple and can get away with selling over priced stuff

I brought the Premium WiiU, and 3 Wiimotes/Nunchucks and few games (never had Wii) and a few weeks later brought a 2tb HDD, it wasn't till then that I realized that I could of brought a Standard WiiU, A WiiU Starter Kit, 2 Wiimotes/Nunchucks Nintendoland and the other games I brought and the 2tb Harddrive for £50 less than I originally paid and the only thing I would be missing is the extra Gamepad stand.
The Premium seems to be the better value system but in reality if your going to be downloading content eventually you'll nedd a HDD regardless of if you have the premium or basic WiiU and in that sort of situation then the Basic is actually better value.
I'm on the fence over pricing initially yes it seems once the other systems arrive a price cut is needed, but with the other systems you will need to pay a monthly fee to play online and if you want second screen features/remote play you'll need to have A Vita (ps4), or Smart Phone of some description and because of how the they will handle the off-tv features (through you home network) the features will suffer longer latency than the direct WiiU to Gamepad features of the WiiU.
The trouble is people don't consider the big picture. They only go on the systems on the shop shelves and the price sticker attached.

I have realized that the Wii U will be cheaper than PS4 and Xbox One when they are released. Both don't come with games in it, and if the games are purchased alongside their systems, the price would be higher than Wii U deluxe set.

Read a number of people's comments, and am I surprised to hear that people want Nintendo to ditch the gamepad and go Wii HD, not Wii U.

While the price cut may or may not happen, I think that that's not the issue here. I don't see the sales move much even with the Nintendo 3DS dropping its price. In fact, I only see it go up as more games come out on the console.

I feel like it's always the trend for gamers - lower your price, or we won't buy your consoles. I have to agree that the Wii U has poor sales, but the price drop isn't going to change much.

Like many people here, the main problem is in the games. I'm sure Nintendo and other third-party companies are working their all to bring good quality content in. With so many games released over the past decade, I don't see that they should push forward some of their titles to this year. Yeah, 2013 needs to be more than the Year of Luigi, but let's not boycott Nintendo into speeding up the developmental process and publishing a crappy full game. I'd rather wait for good games to come out than to play a game sooner with lower quality. I wouldn't imagine Pikmin 3 being released anytime earlier than this year.

I wouldn't mind Nintendo pulling out the 8GB unit, but a price drop would be incomprehensible until we see more of the games coming to the consoles.

Oh, and for those saying that the Wii U should scrap the Gamepad, I don't think so. I don't reckon anything else is better than just a console with an upgrade to HD, and nothing else.

All this talk about "8 GB isn't enough" is bull. Not because it's wrong, but because the alternative of 32 GB isn't enough for any average gamer either. The whole point is moot: you need an external storage solution either way.

Iwata is glossing over some of the Wii U shortcomings, but he's right that quality software will drive sales while a lack of games on the system will cause it to languish.

I don't think the free online is a selling point. You get what you pay for, and Nintendo's network is not Xbox One's Live or PS4's PSN level of quality. However for a quick Mario Kart or Smash Bros. game, and limited scope of online third party games on the system, free is better. Just keep in mind that Sony and MS funnel that money into providing a more compelling service.

These Wii U articles are like broken records. The issue with these types of articles is everyone knows the Wii U is selling poorly and everyone also knows that there is a flood gate of software that started this month and will continue until December which will help boost the Wii U sales. Let's wait til after December for anymore of these.

In Australia the PS4 will be $548 and the Xbone is $598...

Once you've gone Gamepad you will never go back

The software coming up to Mario Kart 8 is pretty nifty. The question is what comes after that to keep the momentum strong. That's the real story.

Between MK8 and Smash Bros online... A good solid couple of years worth of awesome

I regret buying the white version.. I get no love from Eshop games....
I couldn't find a black edition at launch and I thought the wiiu would be hard to find... So.. Yeah..

I don't want Nintendo to ditch the Gamepad, I just want it to not necessarily be bundled with the system, for the systems own sales health. I would definitely buy that Gamepad separately, again I wish it was even more deluxe of a unit it's so awesome (perhaps it would be more DX if sold separately), I just don't think the Gamepad should keep the system at that $350 price point if price becomes an issue when the PS4 comes in at $400. A sub $200 Wii U would fly off the shelves. Then they can upgrade $75-$100 to the Gamepad in a few months. It's last gen hardware and the entry price is a factor for mass market success.

Of course I pretty much know none of that will happen and that the Wii U will be my Nintendo box. My PS4 will do the heavy lifting. I'm ok with that, but I think Nintendo would make more money with the Gamepad as an option for the system.

The system is great, all it needs now are the games that really show it off to a wider audience.

He is right, price is not the issue. The lack of content is the main factor which is well on the way to being rectified.

I am looking forward to developing a backlog of games to play after this holiday season on WiiU with all the quality releases (Pikmin, W101, DK, Rayman, Sonic, Zelda WW, Mario)

That all said, the Wii U is mostly the system I wanted the Wii to be, it's awesome. Plus the games coming are equally awesome. The "one great game a month" plan is perfect. Keep that up as long as possible and it should pull a 3DS style comeback. Pach Attack said that the Wii U is going to sell 30 million lifetime sales. I also think it will do somewhere between 25-50 million lifetime units. The 3DS is looking like 15 million a year as well. Decent, but these systems will never do Wii and DS numbers. I'm ok with that, the games available and coming are still awesome non the less. Mass market sales isn't everything to the end user. Nintendo will still make plenty of money in the end. But the fat cat Wii and DS dollar days are gone.

@xKing_Koopahx You can plug any usb hdd in to it. 32GB ultimately wont be enough either so its what you will likely end up doing anyway.

@MadAussieBloke I wouldnt be surprised if they up the price of ps4/xbox games to $120 in Aus.

Gee, and their digital business is doing well. I wonder why people aren't buying up the basic version with next to no viable storage?

I hate to say this, but 8 GB and 32 GB just looks bad by modern standards. I know you can buy an HDD for the system, but there are many people who either don't want to mess with it, or lack the extra cash to buy an HDD. Microsoft themselves have a 4GB bundle that feels like a ripoff, but the 250 GB bundle that I got last year is a good deal for the money.

And Sony blows away both Microsoft and Nintendo in this regard by offering PS3s that are 250 and 500 GB that are loaded with games, special offers, and various other perks.

The issue with the Wii U is multifold. Yes, the games will help the system, but to the average consumer they might not see the value when a PS3 with two games, a Playstation Plus offer, and a 250 or 500 GB system is sitting on the other side of the video game department.

Something that tends to be forgotten is that the WIi U is not only competing with the PS4 and Xbox One, but it is also up against the PS3 and Xbox 360. In fact, the main competion for the Wii U will be against those two systems, and this is where Nintendo needs to step it up.

I would love to see them drop the 8GB model, make the 32 GB model the basic one, and have a 120 GB model as the Preminum model. Still offer the ability to upgrade with an HDD, but make something that is a bit bigger out of the box.

I want to note that I am not picking on NIntendo alone on this. I think the 4GB Xbox 360 and 12GB PS3 are ripoffs in todays gaming world where digital downloads are the norm.

I think all three systems should have at a least a 100 GB model on the market to allow people to download games without worrying about space.

I love the Wii U's hardware, its just the small size of the system's memory that has bothered me.

GIVE US GAMES!

Unofficial price cuts in the UK have not helped to generate many more sales as this site has reported in the past. The only thing that will save the Wii U is games and more games. Nintendo made a mistake and has admitted that it wasn't ready for the extra time to make HD games. Everyone seems to be screaming for a return of F-Zero but so far Nintendo say no.
Nintendo have already paid Platinum and Sega to bring games to the Wii U, this needs to continue.
The power of the Wii U / install base has not helped it, with many a developer saying they not going to bring their games across.
The way things stand at the minute I think Wii U will struggle to sell in the UK without advertising, especially with new hardware on the horizon from it's competitors.
Also it's worth noting people will look to see what exclusives and multiplat games are coming to each machine. While first party exclusives are all well and good, if the multiplat games that people want to play don't come and help to flesh out a software library that will also influence what machine people will want to buy.

Owh neuu, we donot get a pricecutz. I musht ckomplein on th intrenet. pls.

Um, maybe the basic didn't sell well because you a) didn't pack anything else in with it
b) had a joke of a hard drive in it that got mostly filled up on day 1 with the update.
I wouldn't spend $300 on that...The deluxe set is almost an entirely different situation

I'm waiting for a price drop for two reasons:
1. It'll save me money obviously
2. If they don't have one I'm convinced they will run this system into the ground, and we'll have another Dreamcast on our hands. I aint buying a console with no future.
I'm not saying do it now, but once the big games arrive then do it and bundle it with Mario 3D World.

Dear Iwata...

If not for the fact that I happen to have a HDD lying around not being used.. and I don't Dload a lot off the Eshop... (Really DK is the only one I have.. and D&D if it ever comes out.. along with Rumble U are the only ones I am looking at right now.. and since you have no DLC for the games that I own.. anywho back to topic)

I would not have bothered with the Basic edition of the system.. at 299.99 (And sometimes actually more believe it or not in America) It's just not that great of a deal.. as a Matter of fact.. I would say dump Nintendo Land.. and mark the 32GB edition to 299.99 and then release a 64GB version at the 349.00 price range . you will probably find out that the one with more memory will sell better.. despite the 50 dollar price difference.. the fact of the matter is.. for a mere 50 bucks.. you get 4 times the memory.. and the fact that your digital sales have been going up.. that too should send you a message Iwata... people want more memory... (And maybe a nice White edition ) The 50 dollar difference does not make a difference in peoples buying habits... something tells me you might be in for a hard lesson when PS4 comes out.. with your way of thinking..

Sincerely,

Relias

@Subie98 "Be quiet"? You have called me "childish", "obnoxious" and "ridiculous", just because I'm criticizing a product I don't like and which I feel is undermining the Wii U's potential. Attacking the person rather than the argument is never good form. It's you who should be quiet if you don't have better contributions to the actual issue at hand.

"I doubt that most owners hate the gamepad or else most intelligent people wouldn't buy something they over all dont like."

That's funny, have you taken note of the Wii U's sales? A lot of people are not buying Wii U, wonder why?

I very rarely disagree with Iwata-san's comments. But I disagree here. The value proposition between the basic and deluxe editions just wasn't there. The difference in cost didn't justify what was lost between the two bundles. Plus, if you look at the fact that most of the early adopters are Nintendo fans, you wouldn't expect many to opt for the lesser bundle. At this point, neither units are selling.

They need to work on getting more games out, yes. But also the value proposition. The basic just wasn't a good deal. The need to pack in a newly released game like Marioworld 3D or Windwaker WHEN THEY LAUNCH to the rest of the world. Don't wait a year! Like they did with the SNES. And what they did with SML3D bundle for the 3DS.

@Caryslan Good post, everybody should read this.

The worthless amount of storage capacity is certainly a factor for why people rejected the 8gb model (and possibly, even the system as a whole). People are aware of what the competition offers, and realise they'd be paying more for less.

Speaking as if games are the lone issue for why the console's doing so poorly, is just really foolish on Iwata's part. That's why i have no hope of him 'fixing' the situation, his ignorance has rendered himself incapable at this point.

Might I say something about Standard & Deluxe Wii U? Standard Wii U's for those who, like me, buy only physical games whereas the Deluxe has enough storage to let you download like 6-7 eShop games. Also say if someone would like to buy a Standard Wii U they can. $300 + $65.00 (1TB) + 7.25% (not that good with math so correct me if my equation is wrong) = total.

@Mahe I call it like i see it. If you dont like what im pointing out with your habits on this site thats not my problem. You see it as name calling and lack of proper argument form, Its constructive criticism. Again I said most people that own it seem to have no issues with the system. Your posts are usually nothing more than pure sophistry. Pro tip dont buy systems you dont love then come to site dedicated to it and complain about its means of using the system. Jokes on you kid.

No, Iwata. Just no.

It's not like the Deluxe model is flying off the shelves. People aren't buying the Deluxe model more than the Basic because the difference in price is negligible. The Basic model isn't selling as much as the Deluxe because it only has 8GB of storage, it comes with no game, and it doesn't come with any of the extras of the Deluxe model, like the console stands and the Gamepad cradles. Who wants that? Not too many people.

Yes, the main problem is games, and yes, when we get more top quality exclusives, more people will buy a Wii U. But a price cut will still help once the games arrive. There's only a £50/$50 difference between a Deluxe Wii U and a PS4. That's not huge, and the Wii U doesn't come with a whole lot more for the price.

Since it's not selling well, I think the 8GB model needs to be cut. Offer Deluxe 32GB models in both Black and White with Nintendo Land for £274.99/$324.99. If they throw a new game into the mix, like Super Mario 3D World, Wind Waker HD, or Sonic Lost World, then it should cost £299.99-309.99/$349.99-359.99.

@Subie98 1+

Heh. Basic model isn't selling as much compared to the DX model. Gee I wonder why.

Which may bring up an interesting point. Had this been issue of price, the average consumer would've brought the White (Basic) wiiu over the DX model by now. (that didn't happen)

Something I want to note, the PS4 appears to launching with a 500 GB HDD. I've read various articles that seem to confirm that is the size of the HDD. I bring this up, but even that makes the 32GB Wii U look bad from a value perspective. Add in the fact that Microsoft and Sony are likely to bring it with Xbox 360 and PS3 bundles to supplement the launch of their new consoles, and things become very dicey for Nintendo.

Games are of course, the main selling point of any system but value also has to be taken into consideration. Even if a parent does not see any value in the Xbox One or PS4, they might see something with the various Xbox 360 and PS3 bundles that will be on the market.

And this ties into my main point. People are so focused on the next-gen systems that they are forgetting about the two current systems that are still on the market right now. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are not going anywhere, and they will likely remain strong for 2 to 3 more years while the new systems become established.

Which brings up the main issue the Wii U faces. They are up against four consoles right now. The established PS3 and 360 that are the value systems, and the new shiny systems that are the PS4 and Xbox One.

I like the WIi U, but NIntendo needs to step up several aspects of their business. No, ditching the WIi U Gamepad or killing Mario is not the answer and is stupid to do. But they needs to present better value for the money. Offer bundles and larger sized systems is the best course of action for Nintendo.

Iwata is kidding himself. The basic pack didn't sell for a few reasons.
1) The memory on the system was a joke. 8gb?! Seriously?
2) The Basic version was in White. People prefer black consoles.
3) The Premium edition had a tonne more stuff bundled in for the price you paid.

The Basic edition was NEVER going to sell as well as the Premium edition, and using its not selling as a reason to say 'Price isn't an issue' is completely stupid and ludicrous. I agree with Nintendo on most things, but these excuses over the price of the Wii U are insane.

Citing the Basic bundle's sales is a horrible analogy! There was little to no value in purchasing the Basic bundle, when most of the internal memory was going to be consumed by the update. The deluxe has sold because it is a value, just as most consoles that come bundled with a game are a value. You could either buy the Basic for $299 and then have to pay the better part of $65 to get a game with it, or you could save $10 by purchasing the Deluxe and get the extra items and a game in the box, then you could use the $10-$20 you saved and buy an external HDD for DL games. Iwata is kidding himself and nobody else!

People want a white wii u BUT they don't want a measily 8gb flash memory after the update and such, u would have no roam for anything else Time to make the basic white wii u have a 32gb, and the premium have 64gb. The fact the basic is only 8gb and doesn't have anything else really makes the premium bundle worth it alot more.

Tha's it Iwata, stick to your guns, I'll sleep better at night having paid $349 on Sat. at Target (w/ the $50 GC). And I haven't even opened Nintendo Land yet, and I'm in no rush to do so. Maybe when my 20 W101 demo tries runs out.

I bought the Deluxe b/c here in the US you can't find the $299 Basic new at any price. It's gone. But the article did a good job of explaining why price wasn't really the problem - its all there in the 3rd paragraph. And of my 32GB I only have 20GB free, which means 12GB used, which means the Basic 8GB is all but worthless w/o an external HDD. I've DL'd Tank, Tank Tank, Sonic Racing demo, W101 demo and Rayman demo and used 12GB. I bet there is a lot of buyers remorse from 8GB owners.

So keep it $349, but to sell it pack in NSMBU, WW HD, or SM3DW. No wait, not SM3DW, I want that one. They can make a go if it this holiday at that price if they have firm dates in early 2014 for Mario Kart 8 and SSB. But they need to let people know they are coming w/ advertising. If those 2 games are mid to late 2014 the system will really need a price cut in the spring.

@XCWarrior
But isn't the reason the 3DS started doing well because it had a huge price cut? So huge in fact that Nintendo knew people who paid £229 at launch for it would feel snubbed and did the Ambassador programme. A price cut coupled with great games around Christmas would do the same for the Wii U I think.

A lack of good games can be blamed for the lack of wii u sales as a whole... but it's the value...or lack thereof contributing to the poor basic model sales. Getting a game + 4x storage,+ Nintendo network savings more than makes up for the price difference. Plus, the fact that the os takes up half the already party amount of space on the basic, and you have a console that is almost irrelevant at launch.

@NintendoLink I agree, people need to stop saying the 8gb model is a horrible value... I chose the 8gb model because no matter which you choose you have to buy an external harddrive for it... that $50 I saved bought me a massive 1.5tb drive... to me thats just common sense. For the same $350 people paid for the 32gb premium, My 1,500gb Wii U is a much better value... besides, the White Wii U's don't collect dust that all you premium owners have been complaining about all over the net.

I'm waiting for a 32GB Deluxe White console to match with my old Wii Controllers.

And personally I find way more value in a $170-$200 3DS than a $300-$350 Wii U.

@ikki5 Do you really think Nintendoland is worth $60? Its more like Game and Wario to me and should have been priced $30-$40. It doesn't cost Nintendo a single dime to include their tech demo in every premium set.

I still don't see the value in spending $50 for an extra 24gb of flash memory. You can buy a 32gb flash drive for less than $20.

@NeoZuko Do you know what happens when you don't include hardware as standard? The chances of developers incorporating it into their games slim and none.
Nintendo learned this early on with the original NES. They had all these cool devices(sometimes utter crap) but zero third parties took advantage of it in their games... why? Because not every NES owner bought every peripheral... No 3rd party developer is going to target a smaller pool of owners over the larger group.

Microsoft learned this with Kinect. They planned on having all these Kinect based games being released by 3rd parties. Developers look at it as "Gee 70 million xbox 360 owners, and if I make a kinect game I'm only targeting 1/3rd"

Nintendo's concept for the gamepad will only work if every owner gets one as standard, otherwise no developers would support it... Can you imagine how much different the OG Wii would have been if a Wii Remote didn't come standard in every console? No developer would even bother spending any
resources on incorporating it into their game.

If a company wants to experiment with unique hardware, you either include it with every console or you don't do it all. And asking Nintendo not to be different and unique is like telling Nintendo not to be Nintendo.

This idea that the gamepad shouldn't be included and should be a sold seperately item is just asinine and really showcases how little some people understand how business works in general and in the games industry more specifically.

element187@ I agree with everything you said, but I don't see the appeal in the screen really. Maybe if there were more games like Nintendoland...

@element187 Nintendo has had plenty of accessories, like the Wii Balance Board, the Motionplus, the Classic Controller, the Circle Pad Pro and so on. The good ones found success, the bad ones didn't.

With the Gamepad, it would be better if it wasn't forced on consumers. But now that every Wii U is sold with a Gamepad, it's making the Wii U suffer needlessly.

I hope this is just PR small talk and that we get a €50 price cut this holiday season. Iwata isn't going to announce a price cut right now, so he will deny and dismiss any rumours.
I hope for Nintendo's sake they aren't this delusional. Nobody picks the Basic, because the Basic has terrible value, no Nintendo Network Premium discounts, no game included, no vertical stand for console, no cradle for GamePad, no sensor bar and just a measly 8 GB of storage, when you can have it so much better for just an extra €50.
I want a White Premium Pack at €300 this year, Mr. Iwata. As for the Basic drop it to €250 and bundle Wii Party U for the casual crowd, or else you might just discontinue it. Wii U is a brilliant console, it truly is and the GamePad is great and an integral part of it. But Nintendo planning and management so far is turning this thing into a shipwreck.

What I don't think people understand and I don't think Nintendo has done a very good job of declaring it, but why the internal drives are so small in the Wii U is because they're SSDs. The SSD is flash memory--can run at 300-500 mbps, compared to HHD which max at 50 or so mbps--thus makes so the OS and games run faster, smoother, take less power on the CPU, run cooler, use nearly no RAM, etc. That way almost all the RAM can be used toward the games and not on background processes. It was definitely a smart move and I thought, at least, Sony would have followed suit. Instead they opted to put 8 GB of RAM in the PS4, but at least 3.5 of that is going to be used by the OS and background processes making it much closer to the Wii U than people think. I guess consumers aren't ready to understand the benefits of SSDs and just see 32 GB verses 500 GB and think Nintendo are just cheap or not offering value.

@NorthLightSuplx While selling a system at a loss isn't the best case scenario, I think there is one thing that might be getting overlooked. A system is a one-time sale but once you have a system in your house, you are likely to buy many games over the next decade. Their current plan is to sell the system at a loss and count on one game but I think they could count on at least 10 games per person per year. Maybe I am wrong, but I expect that most of Nintendo's profit comes from software. If that is the case then the number of systems in houses seems more important then how much they make or do not make on each system.

Iwata isn't getting it. The basic and deluxe versions aren't really different in price. The difference is the cost of one game and you get one game. There is no reason not to get the deluxe. A system with 8gb and no game or a system with 32 gb that is $50 more and comes with a game and some accessories? Since everybody is going to buy a game with their system, this seems like a rather easy choice to me. The basic system really should be cheaper. Heck, they could get rid of it and sell the 32gb system without Nintendo Land for closer to $300 and let you choose your game.

@t3g Doing a price cut right now would be pretty short sighted as well. It didn't work for the 3DS at least not until it actually had a library to speak of.

A price cut alone won't do anything, in fact it's actually less useful than a fleshed out library in selling to customers. If they do a price cut it'll have more impact AFTER they fix their library not before.

Nah, It's just your Basic model is a bad value.

Don't want to drop the price? Bundle more games with it. The premium would sell at Christmas if you bundled Nintendoland and Wind Waker HD/SM3DW in it for the same price as they are selling the Premium now. Even bundle one of the games released this summer if you don't want to detract sales from the new releases.

I like my Wii U basic and gamepad, but thought Nindi's execution of the digital download promotion was extremely vague. Really not happy about that; didn't realize the Wii U basic would have to pay more for digital even though it's realistically the only unit that should be purchased if you expect to buy an external harddrive. I have to admit, they really screwed that up. Sony has 10% off most digital, plain and simple. I got robbed.

I'm a pretty big Nintendo fan and I finally bought a Wii U earlier this week. I've never been a doomsayer or calling it the "next virtual boy" (it's already sold 4.5 times more systems). I was just waiting for Nintendo's classic first year drought to pass. With Pikmin 3 finally here and more around the corner it finally seemed like the right time to get one, and I'm glad I did!

Its simple what they have to do. More first party games. Better third party support. Add the modern online features gamers want such as cross game chat, more dlc, make miiverse more like steams online community. Drop the 8gb version. Bundle the poopoodoodiedoodles out of the 32 gb version. Make the 3ds more connected to Wii U ex. Same NNID with miiverse, eshop is the same cross platforms, allow 3ds to be played on Wii U. I know Nintendo is hinting at alot of what I have said but they have to tell us they are doing it and just do it already because people are loosing interest fast.

It sounds like somewhat of a snow-job to me.

@Mahe The gamepad controller is really good. By all means pick holes in the Wii u if you want but leave the controller out of it. Off screen play and game immersion that is second to nothing I've played before make the gamepad a huge plus for the system and I think it remains its best selling point. I also think you can't have played much with it to be talking rubbish like that.

I'm good with the Basic. I think the overall issue is really marketing. I played a fair bit of Arkham City with my brother on the 360 and after hearing about the GamePad features of the Wii U version, I couldn't grab that one fast enough. Same with Call of Duty Black Ops II... Except that one came out at the same time... I just didn't get it until Christmas.

I saw a commercial on the 3DS "Why you want a Wii U." I think they need to put THAT commercial on TV. The same with the EU commercial that detailed how it was different from the Wii.

The price isn't a big deal in my opinion. Sure the PS4 is coming out at $400, but the Vita offered the same boost in power and whatnot for $50 extra dollars and look at how it turned out. I know the 3DS also had a price drop around that time, but still. The Wii U has a minimum price point of $300. For people who don't really want to mess with a bunch of online stuff, that's not that bad.

I, personally, haven't had to erase any demos or games even though I have the 8GB model. And I'm not going to get crazy into the digital download scene any time soon because if something goes wrong with my SD Card, I lose the internet connection, or my console breaks down, those games are gone. With a physical copy, I at least still have the game even if the save data is gone.

@Mahe Sorry to say, dude, but the GamePad is pretty much the entire reason why I got the Wii U. I find it quite comfortable and it's uses in all of the games I own are intuitive and immersive. It's something I couldn't do on the PS3 or 360 and it seems to be the same deal with the PS4 and XboxOne.

Off screen play is great. Having Arkham City's map on hand at all times is VERY useful. And multiplayer (2 people locally) on Black Ops II couldn't be better. Without the GamePad, the Wii U wouldn't be very... "Nintendo" to put it in simple terms.

The Wii U is excellent value as is. AIn terms of hours of entertainment, it's almost free.

The Wii U Basic should never have been offered in the 1st place. In this day and age 8 GB is just simply too little space for anything that handles more than music. Personally I bought the Wii U because my Wii was running slower over time and the lack of new games out of the gate for Wii U I make up for in 3DS or discovering cheap but new to me Wii games. I did the same when the 3DS came out and the Wii came out. Backwards compatibility is the best.

The Basic sold less than the Premium because it's simply not an attractive value proposition in the slightest to most people who are actually bothering to buy a Wii U at this point. 8GB of internal memory it just utter pointless for most potential Wii U owners. It's not because they are comfortable spending the higher price for the Premium. They simply saw it as not really having a choice.

I'm sure many people think even the Premium isn't that great a value proposition either but given the lesser of two evils...

They're both slightly more expensive than I think they should be for what we're getting in the box. I know it might be close to what it costs you, Nintendo, to make them but that's not my fault as a consumer.

I think the Wii U needs to be cheaper to be and attractive value proposition and even more so with the two much more powerful and feature complete, not to mention having far better third party support too, next gen consoles coming very soon...

From my point of view, apart from the paltry internal storage of both versions, the problem with the Wii U is that apart from Lego City and Zombie U there are no other games which can ONLY be played with the gamepad (that i can think off).

Look at all the other games in its library and they can all be played with the Wii-mote or the pro controller, pardon me but I thought the Wii U was suppose to provide a new gaming experience.

When I bought the Wii at launch I could only play Wii Sports and Twilight Princess with the Wii-mote and nunchuck. Couldn't use a gamecube controller for those games.

so for the price of a Wii U basic can I get a PS3 legacy bundle for the same price. that includes 2 games, a controller and 500GB of memory. the Wii U basic has no games and 8GB and is the same price.

if I wasn't a Nintendo fan I wouldn't buy a Wii U just because it's too expensive for what it is. so price is an issue. the value just isn't there for the non nintendo fanboys. the Wii U basic should be $200 MAX and the deluxe maybe $275.

nobody wanted to buy the 3DS at $249 but once they dropped it by $80 and people started buying it. Iwata can spin it however he wants but if he wants the public to buy the Wii U they need to suck it up and drop the price

if you've decided to buy a WiiU you will get the bigger one if you understand the difference; obvious to most people.
if you've decided the WiiU is too expensive for a few games, no storage, and barely useful gampad you won't buy a WiiU.
It doesn't mean it's a good deal for the black one, it's just not a good deal at all yet.
drop the price AND release some games and people will reconsider.

@Mahe that was surprising O.O you didn't reply to @Subie98 ? LOL i guess you lose the argument.

@Coldfirex44 I won't continue arguing with hostile trolls like him.

I understand that everyone WANTS a price cut, but the honest truth is, $50 isn't going to be the determining factor of whether or not the Wii U sells. It's just not.

If a person wants a Wii U, and sees a library of amazing games they want to play, and would be willing to pay $300 for the console, they're going to go ahead and shell out that extra $50 if that's the difference between owning a Wii U or not.
They may not like it- they may wish it were only $300, but they're still going to pay it. And the people who want a Wii U but absolutely refuse to pay $350 will find a way to buy it on sale.

Point is, if a person decides Wii U is a system they want to own, they're going to buy one regardless of whether they have to pay $300 or $350. Again, people may not LIKE it, but they'll tolerate it. And the rest will catch a sale at Walmart or what-have-you.

@ricklongo

YAY, someone with a good idea. Bundles are the right choice, IMO. Though not everyone jumped on the ZombiU bundle, it's what convinced me to buy a Wii U--took advantage of a Newegg Universal sales and got it for $351!!!!1.

Nintendo just needs to release bundles with upcoming games people want like a WW HD bundle, or 3D Mario bundle, or DK bundle. The excuse that PS4 is "only" $400 so Wii U needs a price cut isn't all it's cracked up to be. You have to buy a headset, a game, and pay for online: many consumers will walk away with a $600-700 price tag (and growing, because you have to continue to pay for online).

People buy the Deluxe more than the basic model because the Deluxe version has bigger memory, a more appealing color, a bundled GAME, the Deluxe Digital Promotion offer, and the combined value of it is far superior to the price value of the Basic model. I'm sorry, Iwata-san, but you're very wrong on this. Discontinue the basic model, lower the price of the Deluxe model by $50, and you'll sell TRIPLE what you're going to this holiday season. And for people who do prefer a white system, start filling the Basic shells with the Deluxe packaging.

@R_Champ You don't have to pay for any of those things. This is where the argument begins to get skewed. I play PS3 and Xbox 360 games online and I have never needed a headset. I have several friends who have an Xbox 360 who don't have gold and play single player games. There seems to be a major misconception that you're required to have these things to even own an Xbox or Playstation.

Granted, if you wish to play online you do need to fork over the money for Gold and Plus. But there are numerous gamers who will never play games online, and simply care only for single player. Pretty much all they have to pay for is the system and a game if they don't pick up a bundle.

But let me ask something, how many hidden costs are there on the Wii U to use the full potential of the system? You need Wiimotes, Wii Classic Controllers, and Wii Associres to play Wii Games, if you buy the Basic bundle then you need to buy a game, which as you stated for the Xbox One and PS4 jacks up the price.

Plus, you have other costs such as headsets and other things.

All systems have hidden costs, and while the Wii U may have less in the long run, the 299 that the basic set costs can run up quickly.

@JaxonH " they're going to buy one regardless of whether they have to pay $300 or $350."

I think you're right that $50 doesn't matter, BUT there are people who wait for a price drop regardless of what the initial price is. Nobody wants to be the person who bought a 3DS at $249 yesterday when it's $169 today. And Nintendo has already set that precedent w/ a price drop 5 months into the 3DS life. I think the WiiU has reached the point where the price doesn't matter - BUT people feel like a price cut is coming and they aren't going to buy a Wii U until they get a price cut.

I was 1 of those people but $200 of birthday money and the $50 Target GC worn me down.

So $ doesn't matter - but I guarantee there are people waiting to buy a Wii U until after the price cut, whenever or for however much it may be.

I perfectly understand the chances of selling and support for hardware not included in the box, but the Wii U has already lost on 3rd party support anyway, so 3rd parties supporting a controller or not is a moot point. You are talking to an original owner of the NES Robot and Powerglove here.

I think we have the N64 and GameCube all over again. It will sell to the Nintendo faithful, the games will be good, and we apparently number in the 30 million range for lifetime sales. Enough to make money, not enough to take on a $400 PS4, not enough for most third parties to want to make games. Last gen tech without the advantage of a lower price (aka the first Wii). The Gamepad is compelling to Nintendo fans, but it's not that compelling to the mass market. And it's a Power PC architecture in a now firmly X86 console/PC world. While its a risk to sell that Gamepad separate, Nintendo will support it with 1st party no mater what and the 3rd parties are already mostly gone. They have nothing to lose. While a $200 Wii U would expand market share exponentially giving them the best chance to have lots of 3rd parties come back and make games on the Gamepad. The only way to make this a NES/SNES/Wii 75 million plus seller is to take a $100 off and eat it, make up for the loss with lots of software from a big installed base, or sell the Gamepad separately with a game for $100 and the Wii U for $200. Just my opinion of course. I'll enjoy my Gamepad and Wii U in any case.

Does he not realize that the deluxe model has significantly more value? If it included only Nintendoland and nothing else, it'd STILL be a steal because you'd be getting the game for 10 bucks cheaper. In addition to that, you're getting another 24 gigs of memory, plus all the assorted kickstands and charger stuff that comes with it. There's honestly no reason to get the basic model, with such a marginal difference between the prices of the two models. If they cut the basic model price by just another 50, they would definitely be moving more of those units.

yikes, can't believe Iwata would actually say this stuff. The Basic bundle isn't selling because for only $50 more the deluxe bundle is 9083745987349857 times better!
Why the hell would anyone buy the basic, unless you were dying for the white console??
And the issue absolutely is there...
I'll tell you flat out that since the Wii U was first released I figured it would be my first next gen console. But when PS4 was announced to be $400, I preordered it right away.
If Wii U deluxe was $300 it would've made me think twice. If Wii U deluxe was $250, I'd have a Wii U right now. That being said, I know $250 is unrealistic, we'll be lucky if it costs that low at any point in it's lifespan.

I'm a Nintendo Super Fan, we all are. That's why we all bought 3DSes and Wii Us. I have owned every system since the NES day one. I use to play Super Mario Bros. in the arcade in third grade. I could beat it on a quarter or three. So nobody will defend the awesome of Nintendo games more then the bunch of us. But I have to say the last unconditional Nintendo home system I could recommend over the competition to my friends was the SNES. Today, I would just say get a PS4 and a 3DS XL. But I want to say get a Wii U. I'm just brainstorming on what Nintendo could do.

As far as last gen tech, well it's about a hair better than the current systems so what do you call it? $350 Wii U vs a $400 PS4, no contest on which generation of grapical power it kinda has. Sure it has more ram, ram is cheap, some tech advantages from being done today instead of 8 years ago. But it's firmly in the PS3 3.5 territory, and that's being generous.

Nothing I'm saying is meant to be taken as negative. The Nintendo games are just awesome and I love Nintendo. However while no piece of hardware is perfect, they make strange strange self blocking hardware choices all the time. The funny loading tray of my NES. Japan didnt have this issue. The SNES had a slow slow CPU. The N64 should have been disc based. The Gamecube controller had a horrible D-Pad. The Wii should have been a bit more powerful and played DVDs. Why did they think the Wii U could be so expensive and sell as much as the Wii did with its graphical power? And why can't I output HDMI video on my Wii U and analog sound from the multi port at the same time? Why isn't the Gamepad capacitive touch? ETC. I love them for what they are, but the tech guy in me knows they could do better.

@Fillytase Now, don't come tell me that Nintendoland is enough of a game to keep you busy for more than two weeks. For us who are upgrading from the PS3 and already have a PS+ account the PS4 is going to have a "free" version of Drive Club, wich is also a two week, tops, experience. Besides that membership gives you monthly games and if you have a Vita that means many more, and if I you don't get rid of your PS3 way more. Paid multiplayer is a sucky choice, but it carries more value than the Xlive one.
No announced bundles? Go to Amazon, Gamestop, or whatever store you like and you'll see that bundles are the only choice. The "basic" PS4 model will have a 500gb hard drive, that's way more than 32gb, and more than enough for the average gamer; besides, you can upgrade it to anything you need.
The memory cards and HDMI cable issue I won't argue.

As much as we hate to admit it, the PS4 has way more value for the money than the WiiU. UNTIL Smash Bros. and a new Zelda come out, then I'll consider them on par.

P.S.: Xbone sucks.

@Hetsumani Re: your question, I had to check my comment again to find out where I even implied that. No, it's not, but it's something to play on your new game console that you bought to play games, at no additional cost. My bf has PS Plus, but none of the free games he mentions are ever interesting imo, and it's crappy that you lose them if you cancel your PS+ sub (from what I understand). XBL Gold's free games stay with you even if you cancel, by contrast. However, the Xbox One has nothing to do with my original comment.

I rely on game news sites for this sort of thing, since I have not one iota of interest in buying a PS4 or Xbox One, and I've not seen any stories about bundles. What are these bundles (honest question)? Also, keep in mind that, like I said, a 1TB external harddrive costs $60-80--roughly twice as much memory as that 500 GB harddrive. So how much of a steal is that 500GB drive?

I'm just saying, I think Sony is trying to make it seem like they're giving you a great deal, when in reality they will probably hit buyers with their usual "hidden costs."

I definitely think the Wii U needs games plus a price cut to start picking up steam £300 for a one when you have PS4 at £350 is gonna be a hard sell.

Nintendo is really screwing up with the wii u....The idea to release it a little earlier was a good move, but still. Not going to get a wii u until the price cut comes. until then, the 3ds is the only gaming console in my life...

@Mahe if I'm a troll (someone who loves their wii u and owns all Nintendo's previous consoles) and have zero bad things to say about the system, wouldn't that make me the most pathetic "troll" ever? You're only throwing that term around as a cop out because you just cant handle me. Its alright. I get it, my powers are beyond your understanding. You cant win every confrontation, dont be upset.

I like Iwata, but it's stuff like this...

Iwata is the definition of clueless. The 8GB model was a joke, period. How are they going to sit there and try to push digital sales when you can't fit anything on it? Why didn't they just make a 500GB model and be done with it? Sony did it. The Wii U is clearly overpriced. If they don't do a price drop of at least $50 of the deluxe model, they're plain stupid. When the PS4 comes out at $399 and further hurts their Wii U sales, they're going to wish they had and be left scratching their heads once again.

To all the people who think that you need a 1tb HDD for the Wii U....at this stage in time, it's looking like you'll probably never even fill up half of a 1tb HDD with Wii U games and content. I've had my Wii U since launch, downloaded nearly all the indie games (Trine 2, Nano Assault Neo, Little Inferno, Chasing Aurora, Toki Tori 2, Bit Trip Runner 2, The Cave, Kung Fu Rabbit, Cloudberry Kingdom, Zen Pinball 2 and a few tables), all Virtual Console 30p promotion titles, Earthbound and Wii Street U, and still have space to spare from the initial 32gb, although I buy physical copies of all retail games like Pikmin 3, Zombi U, Monster Hunter 3, etc. (although I have downloaded some DLC for Monster Hunter)

Anyone who's not really interested in downloading retail games could buy the 32gb Premium Wii U and last for a very long time without having to purchase an external HDD at all, considering it's the middle of August 2013 now and I've had my Wii U since the end of November 2012.

The extra £50 for a 1tb HDD isn't a completely necessary extra cost like some people are implying it is if you have a 32gb system but it does hammer home even more how poor value the 8gb Basic system is, as I'd have definitely run out of space with one of those by now. They really should just discontinue the 8gb model.

@Subie98: Lol. Subie98 IS the master of all understanding powers;) You are the man!

@KnightRider666 thanks. I just cant stand people like that.

@Subie98: It's all good.

@Senario: I buy retail over digital any chance I'm given a choice. I don't want an external HD, period, and I shouldn't have to buy one. For the price they are asking, they should include a 500GB internal drive. I just don't understand why Nintendo has to only offer such small INTERNAL storage options. It just isn't acceptable in today's market. On a side note, I had to upgrade my PS3 to 1TB internal solely b/c the 500GB internal drive wouldn't fit the updates and installs. I rarely bought any digital games for the PS3. On the other hand, I have bought a ton of downloadable only games for my Wii(which has a 4GB SD card) and my 3DSXL(which has a 32GB SD card).

@Senario Dude seriously. Do you hate other platforms that much that you have to keep ragging on them?! I've read most of your post on here and you mention something about "fanboys", yet you sound like a Nintendo fanboy. I understand rooting for your system of choice, but to put the others down to glorify the Wii U is baffling. I'm not try to start an argument, I'm just really curious as to why you feel you have to talk crap about the other consoles. The Wii U is definitely not without it's flaws. There is no perfect console. We all know that.

@Fillytase As soon as MS's free games isn't old crap from way back when and they start actually giving away quality games, then it may be a better service. If you actually believes games like Hitman Absolution, Sleeping Dogs, Batman Arkham City, Red Dead Redemption, Infamous 2, Spec Ops plus a whole slew of games that's too many to write is, then I seriously don't know what games can possibly peak your interest.

MS has a good thing going now. They adopted the free games thing from Sony and trying to make it better. I can see that.

Anyway, I don't wanna start with the PS4 vs XBO vs Wii U argument. It's a dumb thing to argue about imo. Sony isn't the only one coming out with a 500gig system. MS is too. Also you have to remember that since both the PS4 and XBO is more powerful than the Wii U, it will take that much space to accommodate the games and hardware supporting it. Still, you're correct about the memory still being much less for the Wii U for an external HD.

@ToxieDogg I agree. I have my 32g and have most of the games you mentioned and I still have plenty of space. Eventually though that space will diminish and you'll be forced to make a good investment with the 1TB HD.

@Rafie You say that you don't want to talk about it, but I consistently see you talking about it (particularly Xbox vs. PS) more than anyone else on this whole site...

Anyway, the point of my comment wasn't any of that. My point was that it (the PS4) is simply not a cut and dry, obviously or objectively better value than the Wii U after you factor in all of Sony's incremental pricing strategies. For the record, I'm not necessarily saying the PS4 is a bad value (though I have no interest in it). But I also don't see how, after you actually consider ALL of the expenses, it's so much better that the Wii U is in some kind of "dangerous" position. Also, saying "it's better than the Xbox One!" is by no means persuasive or relevant.

@Fillytase True. I do defend the other platforms. I won't deny that. However, what you don't see is how I defend the Wii U on the other sites that are for PS3,4 and Xbox 360/One when they rag the Wii U. Another thing that I DON'T do is bash the other consoles and/or the Wii U. I never once said...EVER that the other 2 was better than the Wii U. That would be subjective and up to interpretation of the public. Oh and another thing, where in my post did you see where I said that the PS4 was better than the Xbox One? If you were referring about the service, then I did imply that the PS Plus service is better, not the console as a whole.

Don't forget the Wii U has expenses as well. Not as much as the other 2, but still it does. Accessories and all. I really didn't mean to offend you if I did..then please accept my apology.

@Rafie Nah, I should have been clearer I meant that part about the Xbox One at the first gentleman who replied to me. Regardless, shifting the subject to PS3 vs. 360 is equally silly. Fair enough if you just like defending the platforms--I was just thinking today about how I'd rather be a "fanboy" defending a console constantly than someone who relentlessly bashes and complains about a console and wanting a company to go out of business just because their product doesn't appeal to me (cough... everyone on Kotaku).

I appreciate the polite response. I can come off really snarky sometimes, or often. What expenses does the Wii U have? True, I will eventually need a bigger harddrive. There's the pro controller, but I haven't had any issues with the Game Pad so far.

@Senario LOL I won't argue there about the N64. It holds a special place in my heart with all of the games you mentioned. I feel as though the GC is more of my favorite Nintendo console. Again, with all the games you mentioned (minus WW because I never owned it) plus more. I'm still champ at Double Dash. Hehe

As for the other's selling at a loss...that was true at the beginning, but definitely not the case now. They eventually make that back with the more selling of consoles and software purchases.

Really, I sympathize with Nintendo fans. They're frustrated with the constant negative backlash that Nintendo has been getting lately. Remember it wasn't that long ago when it was Sony getting it just as bad from their abomination of a launch of the PS3 and that crazy hack job that had PSN down for a month.

I shouldn't have used the word "hate". It's a strong word. Hehe I meant dislike. I really would like to inquire about PC gaming. I hear it's the best type of gaming. Of course it's going to blow the consoles out of the water. The specs of the consoles don't compare to a PC.

@Fillytase No worries. I'm all for a healthy discussion, even if it's based off of a disagreement. Anyway, I completely understand what you mean about being a "fanboy" wanting others to go out of business is pretty dumb and just plain wrong. If there's no competition...then the console of people's preference would really suck because they don't have to work as hard to get quality out to keep you there. That's pretty much what I tell others when they are hating on the Wii U and saying blasphemous things like, "it's not next gen", or "Nintendo should be 3rd party like Sega!" I go to town on them.

I certainly don't want to be known as the villain at NintendoLife. I love it here. I just know it's a hard time for one of Nintendo's consoles. The other console (3DS) is the best selling console right now. I just want people to understand that I'm a gamer and I love all games. That's why I buy all systems and such. I spent over $600 when I purchased my 32 Deluxe Wii U with a pro controller, Tekken Tag 2, NSMBU, and Zombie U. I bought something else for the Wii U, but I can't remember right now.

Anyway, it's not the gamepad that has the issue. Games like Nintendoland require you to play certain games on it with a Wii remote and/or a pro controller. Since I already have a Wii, that was no problem. Others that didn't purchase a Wii will have to fork over 40 bucks, if they want to play with family. It's not that much in comparison to the others, but you still have to cough up some dough to get a game and an extra controller. Point is, every console is like that. The PS4 and Xbox One will probably go through a drought like the Wii U did. There aren't really any games coming until the following year.

@Rafie Yeah, I'm fully expecting the other consoles to go through a drought, too. That's just what new systems go through. I'm hoping that more people will warm up to the Wii U (or at least that the media won't crap all over it constantly) after they snap back to reality a bit about the other two consoles.

@Fillytase Also remember that we're about to get some software that will help move the console sales. Especially 2 games in particular. MK8 and Smash Bros will DEFINITELY move consoles. 3DS sales will become even more stellar. Hell I bought a GC just for Smash Melee. LOL Then after Double Dash came out, it was all uphill after that. The media will change it's tune. Still there are huge supporters of Nintendo all across the globe. When I see news on Yahoo about how bad Nintendo is doing, I go on the article and read it. Then I immediately scroll down to the comment section and read most of them. It's mostly the MS and Sony fanboys that has something negative to say, but they get thumbed down quickly. Nintendo is here to stay. That's a fact! They didn't survive over 30 years of gaming for nothing.

@Senario Dude I love L4D1+2. I have it for the 360 though. Valve is really amazing. I have heard about the Steam sales and from what I hear....it's just simply amazing. Crazy dumb deals all the time that can't be matched anywhere. Talking to you about the PC is enticing me more to go out and become a PC player as well. Especially with all the games that are up for grabs. LOL I can't really get into Minecraft, but the hype of that game alone has been heard along the lines from non-gamers. My cousin has been trying to get me to do PC gaming for years now. She is incredibly great at Starcraft amongst other games. If you saw her, you wouldn't believe this girl spends her time in front of a PC. She doesn't have any consoles at all. She upgrades her PC all the time. It's almost overwhelming to keep up with her in that sense.

Oh and yeah I couldn't get with the PS3 at launch. I cringed and laughed at Sony at the same time for that ridiculous price and the no games at launch also bothered me. I actually got the Wii at launch and I LOVED it. I agree that Ubi pretty much became Activision in the notion with milking a specific franchise (AC and COD). EA is guilty as well.

Christmas season 2013: Increase the memory to a minimum of 64Gbyte. Discontinue the stupid basic tier and drop the premium price to $300. Give gamers the choice of white or black consoles. Don't care if it's sold at a loss and don't kid yourself: Sony and Crapsoft will be selling theirs at a loss too in November. Nintendo can eat those losses by selling more $60 games with more systems sold.

It's in Nintendo's hands so whatever they feel are the roots issues

@Subie98 If you "loved" every Nintendo platform, then you clearly can't discern between good consoles and bad. Likewise, you "love" the Wii U Gamepad just because it's from Nintendo and you make the necessary brain acrobatics without applying reasonable criticism. You feel severely threatened by my arguments to the opposite, but you can't counter them so you attack the person instead, without proper counter-arguments on the actual issue.

I'm a disappointed actual user and owner of the Gamepad. I don't know what you are.

PSone is just way too expensive and don't offer anything special that I can already grab out of a bargain bin for $5 right now

Don't understand why many of you want to discontinue basic model. It's good value. I bought Wii U basic for ~250$ + external HDD (500GB) for ~60$ and used Nintendoland for ~20$. So 500GB Wii U with a game for 330$. The only thing that bothers me is lack of black basic model...

@azg So you bought it below the Nintendo recommended price of $300. Would you find still find it good value at the MRSP and just $50 less than the Premium/Deluxe model? Because that's what were talking about.

Well it depends on what You want. Brand new game 10$ cheaper or external HDD to future proof the console. 24GB + stands + collection of mini games are not worth 50$ in my opinion.

i don't own a Wii U and i think there are enough great games to keep me hooked for a few years, (i never owned a wii so i've got plenty of games to get through) and the price doesn't seem too bad so why don't i own a Wii U yet? I'm not sure.

You'd think the Mario Galaxy games would have persuaded me into getting a Wii U but i think what i really want is an amazing Wii U game, and i think we'll see a couple in the next year or so. Personally, Mario Kart 8 is the game to make me buy a Wii U, and I'm planning on getting by the end of the year. Sure, a price cut would make me buy, but that would be silly i think. I just don't think the Wii U is appealing to anyone besides Nintendo fans. I think the gamepad is the thing that makes the Wii U the best console right now, and dropping that would be absolutely stupid. Apart from maybe ZombiU nothing is going to persuade any 'Hardcore Gamers' to buy a Wii U because everything else is already on other consoles. I would love to see the Virtual Console getting N64 and GAMECUBE games. that would quite easily make me buy, besides, then maybe i'd get to play the one starfox game i never got to play, Starfox Assault

@NeoZuko #123
Thank you, you pretty much summed up my thoughts.

I don't know WHY Nintendo opted to release two SKUs at launch.

Doing so had HUGE implications for both Sony and Microsoft last generation, and Nintendo has never done it before, at least not since the original NES.

That it would hurt the already meager and unadvertised launch of Wii U was a complete nobrainer.

The best thing they can do now is get all the Basic bundles cleaned out of stores worldwide before Christmas, as no-one is going to buy them, and retailers won't even order new Premium bundles until the basics are gone.

It's quite the predicament, and I unfortunately can't say I didn't see it coming.

@Metaknight_3Raw They did the price cut at like the same time the good games started coming. They realized after the fact the price cut didn't have a lot to do with the sales jump. That didn't really start happening until the games came later that year.

You do not want to lessen the value of your products. Nintendo made that mistake once, they won't do it again.

@element187 The 32 GB space is not the only extra thing that comes with the Wii U deluxe, you also have the extra accessories as well as a 10% rebate for digital purchases.

@Mahe nothing is wrong with someone because they happened to like nes, snes, n64, gamecube, wii and wii u. My brain is just fine thanks. Im not some ridiculous fanboy either. I own xboxs and playstation systems. I have genuinely been happy with all nintendos consoles. Im the farthest thing from threated by your opinion. I am however annoyed with your backwards brain processing that youd buy a system with a controller input you very obviously hate then come to a Nintendo site and be angry like it was some shock to you that you're not happy with the console. The sooner you get some deductive reasoning behind your future purchases the happier you'll be. Jokes still on you, I hope it sinks I eventually. Also if you felt attacked thats not anyone's fault but yours for putting tone to text. I only pointed out your silly behavior.

Ps. its counter productive to complain and keep a product you hate. Sell it and go be happier with another gaming system or pc.

I agree with Mahe. Just sayin.
So do a lot of people I know who used to be Nintendo fans.

@Archgamer So you'd rather have less players on the Wii U than to have open criticism and actual user opinions on why the Wii U might not be selling as well as it could? Hopefully Nintendo will be smarter than that.

@Subie98 Again, I don't "hate" the Wii U as a whole, but I was disappointed in the Gamepad, and I tried to give it chances. How could my dislike of the thing be any more informed without first-hand experience?

This is why I think players should be given a choice of a Wii U without the Gamepad. Then the people who aren't interested in it, or have tried it and don't like it, could still get a Wii U without having to pay for a Gamepad they don't want along with it.

@Mahe There is no Wii U without the GamePad! For better or for worse, Nintendo made it the core concept of the console. And it is a great idea just waiting for a better implementation on games. A Wii U without it's major differentiator and innovation would be just a PS3 on steroids, without the Nintendo twist. What makes you believe people would be interested in that? I know I wouldn't, you sound like the "Wii HD" theorists.

@Senario: I will be downloading games that I want that you can't buy via physical though, not to mention all the demos. From what I read, the demos alone take up a lot of space. Why is it that Sony can offer the PS3 w/ 500GB for $299 then? What's Nintendo's excuse?

@KnightRider666 Sony uses SATA hard drives, Nintendo uses SSD, Solid State Drives that are much faster than a conventional spinning plates hard drive. But much more costly too.

@Samurai_Goroh: Okay, thanks for the info. Why do PS3 games require ridiculous memory consuming installs and updates? I'm assuming the Wii U doesn't?

@KnightRider666 There are no game installations on Wii U but there are some memory consuming patches. ZombiU for instance is a game released with some serious bugs that got some updates later on.
So, yeah, that's why I can´t even consider buying the 8GB model. Even if I only used it to play games on disc format, the OS updates take half of that space on first run and over the course of time I assume my game library would fill the rest with game patches. The basic and premium should have been 32 and 64 GB, respectively.
But, hey it's not like Nintendo is the only one making bare bones console models. Compared to Xbox 360 Arcade with 256 MB of storage, 8 GB must be a feast. And there were actually some games with mandatory installation on 360, if I'm not mistaken.

@Samurai_Goroh: I guess I could go the deluxe route and put a 32GB SD card into it as well. It sounds like 64GB would be more than enough for me. I'm still waiting for a price drop to $299 on the deluxe model before I would even consider a purchase though.

@KnightRider666 Were on the same boat, then. I think 299 for the Deluxe would hit the sweet spot and I can manage with 32 GB. I would only buy games on disc format, and some eShop titles now and then (mainly Virtual Console, so it should not take that much storage space). But I want a White Deluxe set, I was mad when they split the colours by sets, but they have released a 32 GB White console in Japan, hopefully it's just a matter of time before we get it.

@Samurai_Goroh: I personally wanted a black set, but most people on here seem to agree with you. Samurai Goroh's vehicle was always my favorite to use in the original F-Zero btw;) Good choice.

Our family loves the Wii U...even the Nintendo Land Game. To us it's the best system that Nintendo has ever made hands down. We have the 32gb version and it's nearly full. I don't have any problem adding an external drive when full. We have 12 games on disk and nearly every download only game that has been released for the system as well as 75% of the virtual console releases, all the demos as well as Luigi U, Wario download versions. I would guess that's nearly 30-40 games on the system itself. I would bet that everyone complaining about the size on the 32gb version haven't come close to filling it.

In my opinion the system isn't selling because of 2 main reasons. 1. To much competition from alternative forms of gaming and entertainment (Ipad, Android, DVR, On Demand etc.) 2. The worst name possible for the gaming system without a proper advertising blitz. Wii 2 or Nintendo 6 would have been better names. They could have even named it Dual Nintendo. They had the U Draw thing for the Wii that I think even confused things more.

Months ago I would have been on the "no games" bandwagon but I'm satisfied with the amount of content now. There is more than enough right now. (Not to say that I'm not wanting more.)

We are disappointed that there isn't a HD MLB game. Also I'd like to see a battle type game utilizing the same directional control found in the Metroid Game within Nintendo Land. That for me has been the best use of the dual screens. I hope something is in the works.

Games sell consoles not the hardware. PS3 had a rough start. Wii U same thing. Developing games in HD takes time... Pikmin 3 will not sell the console its a niche game. Zelda or Mario Galaxy on the other hand. Metroid. Even Star Fox if done right. Make a good Smash Bros title and Wii U will be flying of the shelves.
For me the main strength of a console is local multiplayer with friends. I am a Pc gamer at heart and most of the 3rd party games are for all platforms. So i can play Mass Effects, CoD, Battlefields on my pc. What pc is lacking is local multiplayer and nintendo consoles are very good in that department + some exclusives i'm in love with. Zelda, Mario, Metroid franchises. So for me Pc is main gaming platform and console is the icing on the cake.

The issue are the games (for me, lack of JRPGs), no account-based digital download, and region lock. I won't buy Wii U (even though I really interested) if those issues are not resolved especially no account-based digital download. Because I believe that is a big issue.

Rubbish argument!! Besides, the Basic bundle is also overpriced! The Wii u should just cost 250 Dollar/Euro or less!!