As far as sidescrolling Action-Adventure/RPGs go I can't remember anything earlier than Zelda II and Kid Icarus. I always thought Castlevania was first influenced by the Zelda games, and later by the Metroid games.
Castlevania 1 was just a sidescrolling platformer. It had no adventure aspects. I don't want to debate where that's coming from or where the origin lies but at the time it seemed like a heavy rip-off of Ghosts 'n Goblins.
Well, according to GameFAQs, Castlevania was released in Japan in 1993, and they never got Zelda 2 at all. So I think maybe my sources are a bit lacking...
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@Adam: Hey, thanks for the Neutopia reccomendations! I only barely got a chance to start playing it this weekend, but it is definitely scratching that old-school Zelda itch! =)
Can't you just use Zelda II to scratch the Zelda II itch? I need to play that soon. Not only is it a great game, it's listed as "unfinished" on my Backloggery, and I want to remedy that situation!
My Backloggery Updated sporadically. Got my important online ID's on there, anyway. :P
Heh, I could, but I wouldn't be a Nintendo fan if I didn't want more more more.
I just played through Zelda II a month ago (second time completing it for me), so it's too soon to jump right back in. I remember Zane (where did he run off to, anyway?) telling me Dragon's Curse was similar to Zelda II and very good, not to mention NL's positive review.
Now that I've beaten StarTropics II, I would recommend it for those, who like to spend 600 points for a 6 hours "long" action-adventure. It is sometimes challenging but not as challenging as the first one. It feels shorter, at least the dungeons are much shorter than the ones in StarTropics 1. The bosses are also a lot easier. I only got stuck at 3 bosses, but they were easy with the right strategy. There are not so many hard puzzles also. Both games get a 7/10 from me.
Major Downgrade from a formula? Huh what? The boss rush of ST2 was easier than the final boss in ST1.
I had a full 20 heart containers at the end of both games. You can always collect up to 9 health potions in the last dungeon of ST2, so you really have a fair chance to beat the (not so challenging) boss rush. I wouldn't speak of a downgrade whatsoever just because the second game is easier (or harder in your opinion?) But I found myself beating the last dungeon in ST2 on my third try whereas in ST1 I tried about 30 times till I finally beat the last boss.
I just wanted to say thanks to Corbie and Adam for the recommendation of Neutopia! I just dowloaded the game yesterday and so far I'm loving it! I'm pretty certain that I will eventually download Neutopia 2 as well. For now, I'm going to enjoy this little gem!
i thought Neutopia 1 & 2 were awesome, i still haven't tried star tropics yet. @adam i highly recommend you try dragons curse. i LOVE this game. i think it plays better than Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap(sega master system).They are basically the same game but i found the Turbo Grafx-16 version to control smoother and the art direction is a tad different.
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I don't think I've played any of the Wonder Boy games, though the name is very familiar. I never owned a Master System or Turbo. But I think I've gotten enough recommendations to push me over the edge and get it now, just a matter of finishing a bunch of other games first! Thanks, Odd.
Necro-ing a month-old topic. I bought Neutopia, hated it for the first hour or so, then liked it enough to finish it. There were some aspects that bothered me, though.
Then I bought StarTropics, played it for a few hours, and I absolutely hate it. I don't understand why this game is held in such high regard. The controls are awful - way too clunky when you consider the difficulty of the game.
So I moved on to Neutopia II, and noticed two things right away: Unlike Neutopia, you can move diagonally in this game. You can also attack while walking (the first game would have you stop when you were attacking). These changes were enough of an improvement over the first one that I loved the game instantly. Still haven't finished it yet though.
I'll give some brief reviews/scores, and try to focus on the important aspects of action-RPG-ing. StarTropics: Music: 9 I can't deny that this game has a great musical score. Looks: 6 Eh, Mike looks lame. Most enemies look lame. Overworld is typical FF format but not as nice. Items/Item Variety: 4 Your main weapon is a yo yo. Lame. You also get a baseball bat (lame), a fire wand, medicines, and snowmen. I know there are more items than this but I haven't been played far enough. My main gripe here is that items are used in the underworld only, and they are lost every time you exit the underworld - so you could save up a bunch of potions only to have them lost on the next dungeon area. Adventuring: 4 For at least the first few chapters, the game is extremely linear. Maybe it gets better later. Controls/Playability: 2 The game only allows 4-directional movement, and the movement is not fluid. Mike moves one square at a time. Mike can only jump straight up, unless there is water/lava/whatever in front of him. Then he can jump to a platform exactly 2 squares away, or to his death. He can also only attack in 4 directions - except for the bat, which rotates around most of his body but is awkard to time. Factoring in that enemies CAN move diagonally, and can shoot projectiles (often several at once) diagonally, this just totally ruined the game for me. I'm not sure why I gave this a 2 and not a 1. I assume there are games with worse controls out there. Lame Protagonist Name (Mike): 10
Neutopia: Music: 8 Not as good as StarTropics, but still quite good. Looks: 6 The enemies are pretty lame-looking, the overworld isn't very polished. Dungeons are unimaginative. Items/Item Variety: 5 There are boom bombs, a fire staff, medicine, a ring that turns strong monsters into weak monsters, wings of return, and Moss (lights up dark rooms). You also have standard/always-equipped items: a sword, shield, armor, and boots. Most of these you won't use very often, but at least you never lose items by entering/leaving a labyrinth. Adventuring: 6 It's Zelda-style adventuring. But there are different "Spheres" that keep you limited to one area at a time. You pretty much never need to go back to a previous Sphere except to buy cheaper bombs and medicine. Also the wall-bombing, bush-burning, and stone-pushing is a little overdone - there's a secret room in almost every single screen. Controls/Playability: 6 You have 4-directional movement, which is somewhat prohibiting. Also, movement is a bit sluggish until you get a boot upgrade. However, you can shoot the fire staff in 8 directions, which makes flying creatures (that can move diagonally) and bosses (that have projectiles that need to be dodged) a lot easier to handle. Shameless Zelda Ripoff: 10
Neutopia II: Music: 9 A little bit better than Neutopia. Looks: 8 A lot of the enemies from the first game make a return here, and are a lot more pleasing to look at. The texturing of surfaces in the overworld are reminiscent of Link to the Past. Much cleaner and smoother than in the first game. Items/Item Variety: 7+ I haven't reached far enough into the game to give this a final score. It at least gets a 7. All the same items return from the first game, and I have also encountered a Chalice of Agony (special quest item), the Manipula Medicine (special quest item), and a Boomerang. The full power of the Fire Staff is reached a lot earlier in this game than in the first one. Controls/Playability: 8 You can move in 8 directions now, swing your sword in 8 directions, and you can attack while moving - much needed improvements over the first game. My only complaint is that hitting an enemy with the fire staff will often cause them to bounce in an unpredictable direction - often towards your character, resulting in 'wtf?' damage. Leagues beyond the Original: 10
I highly recommend playing the first Neutopia game. It's "good enough" to leave you wanting more, and the second game improves so vastly on the first one that it will certainly not disappoint. Playing them in reverse will only leave you disappointed with the first game, instead of appreciative of the second game.
I actually prefer Neutopia over Neutopia II. The sequel is more frustrating.
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I prefer Neutopia, too. I actually like not being able to move diagonally. I find I make a lot of frustrating mistakes in 2 because I can't keep the character perfectly in line with the grid, which results in activating spikes I knew where there. The other elemental staffs don't add much except different colors and slightly different ranges, but not enough to be excited about. Other than that, it's mostly more of the same but with some cooler looking areas at least.
It is hard to choose one over the other, but both are good. I beat 1 but could only get to Dirth in 2. It is frustrating having to get all the items each time you replay the final dungeon, so I just quit trying.
Star Tropics (both of them) are extremely frustrating though. I don't mind being stuck on the grid and the weird controls, but the way they are applied is intentionally annoying and cheap. Cool premise for a game, dreadful execution.
I also forgot to mention that StarTropics feels like killing you every so often for no reason at all. There are some rooms that, if you decide to enter, you die (for example, simply entering a room drops you into a pool of death-water). That's not a good gameplay element by any standard.
Neutopia felt amateurish to me. Like a Zelda tribute. Neutopia II feels like its own entity.
I know what you mean about hitting spikes you knew were there, though.
I prefer Neutopia, too. I actually like not being able to move diagonally. I find I make a lot of frustrating mistakes in 2 because I can't keep the character perfectly in line with the grid, which results in activating spikes I knew where there. The other elemental staffs don't add much except different colors and slightly different ranges, but not enough to be excited about. Other than that, it's mostly more of the same but with some cooler looking areas at least.
It is hard to choose one over the other, but both are good. I beat 1 but could only get to Dirth in 2. It is frustrating having to get all the items each time you replay the final dungeon, so I just quit trying.
Star Tropics (both of them) are extremely frustrating though. I don't mind being stuck on the grid and the weird controls, but the way they are applied is intentionally annoying and cheap. Cool premise for a game, dreadful execution.
I agree 100%! There is something to be said about a streamlined game!
EXPERIENCE MORE.... Arcade-quality graphics, awesome sound, "turbo-charged" game play, exciting TurboChip games... It's the incredible Turbo Genesis 64 Entertainment SuperSystem Experience. There's more fun, more challenge, and more excitment ready for you today!
I also forgot to mention that StarTropics feels like killing you every so often for no reason at all. There are some rooms that, if you decide to enter, you die (for example, simply entering a room drops you into a pool of death-water). That's not a good gameplay element by any standard.
Neutopia felt amateurish to me. Like a Zelda tribute. Neutopia II feels like its own entity.
I know what you mean about hitting spikes you knew were there, though.
I don't recall Star Tropics using the instant death thing often. I thought it was funny, actually. Unlike many of the much more annoying flaws with the game, this should only kill you once since you'll know where it is after, and if you aren't already frustrated with the game at the time, it ought at least earn a chuckle. It's weird: some things in games make me laugh, and some tick me off. It'd be nice if I could just learn to laugh at all of it.
And back to Neutopia, definitely a "Zelda tribute." It's written all over it, but personally I have never thought originality a goal worth striving for. If you make something original incidentally, that's awesome, but I don't at all feel like I'm settling when I play a great game whether it is based on another game or not, personally. And if there is one game that deserves to be cloned again and again, it's Zelda.
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Topic: StarTropics or Neutopia?
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