Topic: Nintendo is Lazy and Doesn't Care?

Clearly you haven't been paying attention to this argument (although yes, it's a lame one). Where in NSMBW does it define Mario or Luigi's personalities? Nowhere. Sure, past titles may have done it, but many of the people who pick up NSMBW will have never played a Mario game before, so it won't matter to them. Mario, Luigi, Yellow Toad, Blue Toad--they're just avatars.

I'd love to make my own plumber. Basically just a Mii in overalls with your choice of letter on the hat.

And I agree, three planes was one of the factors that made LBP less than what it should have been. Mario would be much better to edit.

I haven't been paying attention, no. If you're dead set on using that argument, why aren't the Princesses used (don't give me any BS about dress physics, lol)? Technically they're palette swaps. What about the Wario Bros? Same story. They could've at least had a fat toad and a thin toad, but no, they're the same models with different colors. It's a lazy way out. They didn't even name the toads - it's Blue Toad and Yellow Toad. The player feels kinda bummed out when all he is is "Blue Toad" and the other players are Mario and Luigi.

I still love the game, though. :3

Yeah, you're missing the point of my argument: they're palette swaps and it doesn't matter. I don't care if they're palette swaps, because the joy is in the platforming, not the characters. And for the record, when I play multiplayer, I always pick Blue toad. Why? Because Blue toad is the man, that's why.

And as for the princess not being a playable character, isn't she sort of kidnapped or something in this game? I mean, I don't know the story gets kind of complex and hard to follow but I think she gets kidnapped.

@Adam: Probably because the technology wasn't ready yet. Facial expressions and voice acting wasn't good enough developed in the NES/SNES games. But as soon as those were possible, then made Luigi into the character the wanted him to be in the first Mario game.

Sure it's clear what the Toads mean and all, but I think it's just weird that they are just two nameless, faceless toads we've never seen before that out of nowhere manage to get a major part in the game. While the enemies all have names (Ludwig von Koopa, Lemmy Koopa, Roy Koopa, Iggy Koopa, Wendy O. Koopa, Morton Koopa Jr. and Larry Koopa). It is just weird that they name the enemies that are only the boss in one level, but two main characters in the game are just generic and nameless.

@Kid_A: I don't own a PS3 or a PSP so I've never played LittleBigPlanet. But concerning the Mario game, they have build up all this characters over multiple games. We have grown familiar to them and know them (even the enemy bosses). But beside Mario and Luigi are two characters we have never see before in this state as a main character. People recognize Toad and Toadette from the other games and that would make perfect sense. Again, I don't need to know there complete background, but I can't help but ask who those two are?

@pixelman, glad to see I'm not the only one. I was beginning to think I was just weird .

Did she get kidnapped? Sorry, I never pay attention to the story in Mario platformers.

They had the technology for text back then, actually.

remind me why this thread is still up

First of all, Adam was right, text existed in the first game. If they wanted dialogue they could've had it.
Second of all, None of the names of of the Koopa Kids are given in the new games. We know that they have names from SMW, but as far as the millions of people who have never played a Mario game in their life that are going to buy NSMBW, they're nameless.
Third, and I've said this twelve thousand times, the character's personality that they've built up over the past 20 years don't matter in this game, because many of the people that play this game will have never played Mario & Luigi, Luigi's Mansion, or Paper Mario--the games that have given the characters their personality.
Fourth, and I've said this quite a few times as well, the character's backstory (in this case, the Toads) is completely irrelevent, because your character is simply an avatar. The joy of platformers is the platforming, not the characters that they're based around. Sure the character may sell the game (In this case, Mario), but I don't play Mario games because he's charismatic and upbeat--I play Mario because his games are fun.

@Adam , @Kid_A & @Sneaker13 I guess I never liked talking about things that have been talked to death about since the beginning of the N64 generation. It's just that I feel that we need to move on and look forward to the future, not always looking in the past and deciding if what our favorite company was doing was right for their fanbase. My personal opinion.

It's a silly and pointless argument--but I'm having fun and you're ruining it

@Adam, you're right . But you know what I mean.

@Kid_A, on point 2, aren't the Koopalings mentioned in the manual by name? They were with SMB3.
On point 3 and 4. Doesn't matter how many times you say it, the loyal fans of the Mario series know these characters and it's just weird that right next to the great and famous Mario and Luigi, there are two unknown, faceless and nameless toads. It might not bother you, but it bothers me and other players. It's not that it makes the game less enjoyable, but like pixelman said, Nintendo could have done something to distinguish them from every other Toad in Mushroom Kingdom.

Now, I'm off to bed, it's 2:50 AM in Holland and I need to get up early. See you guys tomorrow.

On the plus side, now the toads know what it's like when their princess is in another castle.

BEST. POST. OF THREAD.

Well, they can power up like the Mario Bros

Well, yes, I know what you mean, but I also think text is a valid point. I mean, part of what you wanted was a couple lines of text for the Toads. And yet, Mario and Luigi didn't need this. They never spoke actual sentences in the old games. I can't remember if Luigi talked in Luigi's Mansion or Galaxy, but Mario definitely doesn't either. So Nintendo had options, and they intentionally forewent them (is that a word? never saw forego in past tense... weird). And no one complained.

As Kid A and I have been trying to explain, only in-game characterization really matters for most people because you can't assume everyone has played previous games, seen the same ads, reads the instruction booklet, etc.

I still say they should have been the princesses. I really don't like the excuses given, dress physics, body shape. I'm sure it'd have taken all of a few minutes. No one would really care if the dresses even moved, really. But it's not worth complaining about. I just wish they'd give honest reasons.

Actually, I think the whole dress physics thing was just a joke that, of course, everyone ran the wrong way with. I mean come on. Wasn't it Miyamoto who said it? "We could have included Princess Peach, but then we'd have to animate her dress." I'm paraphrasing, but does this really sound like something serious, or just a joke? =)

I'm sure it was a joke, too. The article even says so. But they also mentioned that the body shape was too dissimilar, and in context it sounded serious. Could be a joke. No telling how well humor translates from Japanese to English. Probably not too well in most cases -- certainly not in this case. And really, I wasn't saying that it wasn't a joke, just that it wasn't a good excuse.

Lol. Yeah, I don't think humor translates well over the internet either. =) Nah, it's not a good excuse. He probably said it as a joke, because it's not really something they thought about, and that he thought other people wouldn't care about.

There are a couple of caveats to using the princesses.
1. They would have to change the story.
2. They would have to use Daisy. To the best of my knowledge, The only Shigeru game that Daisy has been in are the last 3 Mario Kart games. Why would he start using her in one of his platformers now?

I don't think they were being lazy, I think they were prioritizing:
1. Spend minimal time on characters
2. Spend minimal time on story
3. Spend maximum time on level design

If I had a choice between Nintendo refining character selection (for example, including Peach) and building a story around that, or developing another world, I would take the new world every single time. Oh, now there are 10 worlds? And you still have more time? What, no, I don't want to change the playable characters, please start on world 11 ASAP!

@Sneaker13: You keep saying that Toad and Toadette are well-known characters, but you are upset because there are two generic Toads? It's not like they've been using the same Toad in every different Mario. There were 8 Toads in SMB1, 1 Toad in SMB2US, tons of them in SMB3, [any in world? can't remember], tons of them in Super Mario 64, a handful in SMS, a handful in SMG.
So no, Toad is not a well-known character. The Toads are.

Toadette is the only female Toad we've ever seen. Toadsworth is the only elderly Toad we've ever seen.
So even referring to those as names rather than titles is a bit of a stretch. They could just be what all female Toads and elderly Toads are called, and they may not even be the same characters from game to game.