Topic: (metroid) echoes is one of the best games ever made

(listens to the sound of forum goers fleeing at the sight of a really long thread)

it baffles me that this game is regarded as the worst in the trilogy. it's hard to say which prime is best, since they're all truly great in their own way, but i think echoes is the closest to perfect. it had the disadvantage of using an engine you'd already seen before; right at the start there is a feeling of 'just another planet to explore', rather than the awe of stepping into a new world that prime left you with (in my opinion this makes you feel a little more like samus, a hardened veteran of hundreds of missions, probably would).

reviewers docked (decimal) points because they said it was too similar to prime, an opinion most of them rescinded after playing all three games in a row on the trilogy; the differences between the two become very clear when you jump directly from one to the other. those differences more than make up for the loss of that 'new game' smell. for starters:

the map system is much cleaner and simpler. prime's map was a maze of snaking tunnels that had no apparent logic to it. it got the job done, but you'd often have to go through one or two worlds to get to the one you wanted to reach and remembering where each of the many, many elevators would take you could be a real task.

echoes has a central hub with an elevator directly going to each of the three worlds in the game and each world itself has a direct elevator to every other world, so that no matter where you are you can get where you want to be with a single elevator ride. it couldn't be simpler to find the right exit to take on your map, and it makes exploration and backtracking that much easier.

the visuals are much better, and not just in a technical sense. most of the hard decisions about gameplay had already been made in prime 1 so they had the luxury of devoting more time to the artwork and world design. the worlds themselves show a little more ingenuity on retro's part; none of the worlds are recreations of super metroid, nor are any of them very earth-like.

the amount of detail is staggering; from glowing, translucent trees to reactors with hundreds of individually moving parts, the environments get progressively more and more elaborate until you finally reach the mind blowingly complicated sanctuary fortress. all of the environments are interesting, and the quality of the art direction stays high throughout. little improvements in lighting effects wind up making huge impacts on the look of the game, giving it a very surreal and dreamy look: http://media.insidegamer.nl/screenshots/public/1942/29547.jpg

of course prime 1 had amazing visuals and top notch art direction, but i don't know if the game ever left you in complete awe at the sheer scope of the world you're in the way echoes does. i'd also consider some areas, like the pirate infested phazon mines, to be dull spots in an otherwise great game, a fault i can't find with echoes. the visuals are also more consistent than corruption, whose bloom lighting overdose worked beautifully for skytown, but could get tiring for other environments.

with the success of prime 1 the pressure to make a FPS feel like classic metroid was off, allowing retro to push the series in new directions rather than constantly look to super metroid for guidance. the light/dark world mechanic occasionally takes the emphasis off of exploration and puts it squarely on survival, giving you a break from traditional metroid gameplay and making the game a fuller and more varied experience overall. and the dark world really does feel like a different dimension, and is often so different from the light that you won't even recognize that you're in the same rooms.

from the light/dark beam and ammo system to boss fights taking place entirely in the morph ball, retro found plenty of other creative ways to surprise you while still using the same basic engine as the first game.

the length and difficulty were doubled, making the game much deeper and more rewarding to complete. rather than jumping from one world to the next, you spend most of your time more thoroughly exploring just 3 environments. this gives you an even better sense of being deep in a terrifying and foreign planet, one of the highest goals of every metroid game. in this area it also beats corruption, since the ability to fly planet to planet whenever you want (as awesome as it is) detracts from that feeling of being trapped.

every boss is an epic challenge. where prime's bosses were memorable for their character, echoes bosses are memorable for the sheer struggle each one will put you through. no matter who you're up against you will be tested, and you will feel like a badass for coming out of it alive.

there's not much that the game gets wrong. the music is the weakest out of the trilogy, but it's still very strong overall; it just lacks a few of the 'right in your face' awesome tracks yamamoto usually pumps out, instead relying on more subtle and ambient sounds. if the dimension jumping mechanic doesn't appeal to you, you'll probably be very tired of it by the end of the game. you also have to be up for a challenge, since echoes is the most complex and difficult metroid game there's ever been; after keeping track of what beam you're using, how much ammo you have, and whether you're still inside of a light bubble while fighting every boss, you may come to appreciate the simpler and more direct gameplay of the other games better.

none of those things are absolute faults with the game, just polarizing elements that might turn some players off while drawing others further in. that is the main reason echoes doesn't get the credit it deserves as being the best of the prime games; it's not as accessible as the other two. i passed on it originally, but after playing through it on the trilogy disc i don't understand why it's not hailed as one of the best games ever made (sanctuary fortress has to be one of the most amazing feats in video game history).

5, 4, 3... you may start your disagreements... now!

AGH!! GIANT POST!!!

As for the key points...

#1. I guess. Depends on personal taste.
#2. Again, personal preference.
#3. A. When was Super Metroid an inspiration?, B. Umm...no., C. That can be debatable.
#4. Not really. You might as well swap out the light/dark beams for the ones in the first game and it wouldn't have made any real difference.
#5. I actually find that a huge turn-off. I had recently come off of MP1 and I was having a hard time smoothing out the transition because my brain hadn't recovered from the intense amount of thinking I did in the first game (The man who played MP1 with no strategy guide, right here!), which lead me to using a strategy guide on the sequel.
#6. I wouldn't call EVERY boss an epic challenge. And I mostly remembered the MP2 bosses because of how huge they were and how unique they looked, NOT because of their difficulty.

All-in-all, the game is good (like you said), so if you love it so much, keep on playing!

Metroid Prime 2? You are absolutely correct my good sir. Then again, I'd expect nothing less from a series of such caliber.

I like to relax and look at stuff in Prime. Dark Aether wasn't good for that D:

...It isn't all THAT great...Still, Quadraxis is considered one of my most favorite bosses ever. XD

MP3 is my favorite by far(even though the final boss was a none-epic uninspired letdown), but part of that is because of the amazing Wii Controls. I still haven't played MP2 yet, but i definitly will whenever I get the MPTrilogy disc

I don't think the boss battles were that hard once you got the hang of it but it is still my favorite game of all time. The bosses were awesome looking

Yeah can't decide on my favorite...1 felt...Metroid-ish (without other characters who guide you or never shut up, lol). I dunno how to explain it. Anyways then there's 2, it has difficulty (and Quadraxis), and then there's Sanctuary...loved that level (and Quadraxis). Then 3, well...it has voice acting (and Quad-, er...I mean Helios. XD), and the Wii controls...then again there's Trilogy, so...yeah I dunno. All 3 are great.

@Armor: Well, there's the GameCube version of the Boost Guardian...ugh, what a nightmare...so glad he was toned down in Trilogy. XD

The way I see it:

MP1 > MP2 > MP3

Metroid Prime was a groundbreaking masterpiece, and currently the only game in the series that rivals Super Metroid.

Prime 2 was really well done, too, but I don't agree on all your points, and some of the changes they made were for the worse.

Prime 3 was just... bleh. A huge letdown.

BTW, In MP2's Sanctuary Fortress, isn't there a game-breaking glitch? The reason I ask is I got stuck there on my first playthrough, and no strategy guides were able to help me.

There was, I forget though because I've never done it in the first place, that and they fixed it in Trilogy anyway.

Metroid Prime 2 would have been my favorite had it not been for the ammo system. That just ruined it for me.

I've never played it, to be honest. But every time I walk into gamestop and see it glimmering on the bargain shelf I ask myself...why? I think you've finally convinced me. I need to play this game.

Wait, explain this to me. I haven't heard about this...genuinely interested to know, since I'm interested in buying the game now.

It has ammo for every gun you use in the game. It gets quite annoying and is a great turn off for the game but as Retro Studios said it was just a test to see how it would play out and as you can see from Corruption they also didn't like the whole concept either.

Basically, without any exspansions, you can only fire a dark/light beam 50 times before you run out of their ammo. If you don't have ammo, a charge shot turns into a single normal shot. Anihhalator beam uses ammo from both types of beams.

the ammo system is definitely a one-time thing. it was an interesting change of pace and fit very well in echoes, but it does make you glad they didn't carry it into the next game. it adds to the intensity of the fights, forcing you to make your shots count and adding to the panic when you start to run low. as you shoot you'll have to swap between beams to ration ammo and plan ahead about what weapon to switch to when you run out.
the downside is that refilling can be a chore, they probably could have put a few more reload stations in, but it wouldn't be the same game if you could just blast forever since most boss fights were designed around the limited shots. plus it's really satisfying when you do hit someone with a charged up hit when you have to work for it.

I thought echoes was way better than corruption, it was more of the same sure but that's not a bad thing and it was much more challenging and harder than the others. Kid_A, is you enjoyed the first prime game then echoes is a great buy.

prime 2 is my favorite because i finished it first, then i went for prime 1, really great game but, for me, nowhere near as good as prime 2, i liked the way that the 2 worlds offered in each area, and it was really rewarding the final battle

Prime 2 is my favorite GC game, hands down. I thought the ammo restrictions added to the strategy of the game. The scanning was a lot better than in the first one and the puzzle aspect was more challenging. I went through Prime in no time but Echoes took more brain power. Prime was too much like the others in the series.

@Kid_A: Pick up a copy of Echoes, ASAP...

I agree with what Dikigi and Rift said, but Echoes is by no means a bad game; the OP has some good points. I'm still a bit frustrated because I can't take down the Emperor Ing on Hard mode, though...