Topic: I'm done(*) with WiiWare

Wait, so you hate Nintendo for following a business model that 99% of companies out there follow?

I hope you don't buy music, watch movies, or buy anything self-published on Amazon etc etc, because then you'd be hypocritical.

When I spoke to the guy from Nnooo, he was very happy with working with Nintendo. Of course, Nnooo made a product that actually sold and was quite profitable for them.

It's a pity that you guys let your buying decisions be determined by a guy whose product sold badly, so he lashes out because he's upset and has to blame somebody. A real shame.

I was speaking from a perspective of if I was a developer, no way I'd take a chance on putting every penny I owned into developing a game only to have it not meet a certain sales target and get absolutely nothing in return. No way in hell I'd ever do that. Sure it's great for those who get a hit, but I've seen too many great games over the years not sell. Not me.

As for those who take the chance and then complain, well, they knew what they were getting into. That's not Nintendo's fault.

This.

lol, I didn't mean you Corbie - I was talking about the first poster, and the subsequent "OMG NINTENDO IS SUCH AN EVIL COMPANY" crew.

The games industry is actually pretty lucrative for self publishers and developer/ publishers. Without having seen Microsoft or Sony's online download service system, I can't compare to Nintendo's, but Nintendo's really isn't unreasonable. It's pretty damn easy to hit those sales targets with a bit of clever marketing and a decent quality game.

If a game doesn't sell well, it's no one's fault but the crappy developer. There are plenty of games on WiiWare that sold, and if you didn't make a game that does, it's no one's fault but your own. Don't start blaming Nintendo after you already agreed. That's like reading about problems with a product and thinking you can deal with them, and buying it anyway, but then you complain when you notice those problems. Boycotting WiiWare is helping no one. I hope you feel good about yourself, but it's not going to do anyone else any good.

Why would you believe a unknown developer especially since he might have made a sucky game, wait what's that don't believe me well:

http://wii.ign.com/articles/936/936615p1.html

http://wiiware.nintendolife.com/reviews/2008/12/bruiser_and_s...

Second this is coming from a former naughty dog employee in other words he's a fired developer from a rival company looking for a job find on and then make a game probably the key reason why he was fired.

Third if i had to rant WiiWare i would come with concrete evidence, example if Mega Man 10 was forced to be a Wiiware exclusive or Nintendo themselves was responsible what makes you think he mend Nintendo in fact he could probably be talking about his own Boss, after all if SEGA can lower VC price tag to 500 Wii Points so can this guy, plus it happen before i mean Internet Channel became free and DSi had a 1000 Nintendo points promo so if these things can happen so can this game but it won't matter since it will still sucks.

Sega negotiated it with Nintendo. They didn't just choose to. If Nintendo said no, that would have been end of discussion. Nintendo publishes the internet channel, so they can do whatever they want with it.

Don' you think everyone is making too many sweeping statements about Wiiware here. I can see this as an isolated incident where Nintendo overpriced a game. Are there many more cases like this?

Really? Look at Klonoa, Zack and Wiki, and Little Kings story, all great games, and the devolpers put effort into them, but they didn't sell well, so saying a game won't sell well if devolpers don't put effort in is pretty blind.

A game failing doesn't mean Nintendo shouldn't make money from its own console. Do the math - the amount of money Nintendo makes from any one individual WiiWare or DsiWare game is actually really small.

A 1000-point game that sells 3000 copies nets Nintendo $45000. That's it. That $45000 needs to pay for the costs of running WiiWare, it goes towards the marketing budget for the service, it pays for R & D to improve the service. It pays the wages of the technical support staff who look after the service.

After that, the game makes a pittance for Nintendo, and the developer starts to get paid (assuming it's a self-published title). That $45000, in itself, would not cover the cost of having it on the service.

Uh, a $10 game that sells 3,000 units generates total revenue of $30,000. How does Nintendo turn that into $45,000?

EXACTLY! That even emphasizes Waltz's point!

Those are all retail games. Not wiiware. There's a huge difference.
I agree that some games are worked hard on, but don't do well.

He might have meant $AU, but I don't care enough to look up the conversion rate and see if that is at all true.

Well that's a bit silly. Their games just have to meet a certain sales quota in order to make a profit. And once they've met that quota they get the money for all the games previously sold and all future sales. It's a quality control thing, really. If no 3rd party developers ever saw any cash do you really think WiiWare would have lasted this long? And we'd still be getting great games on a consistant basis? Don't be silly.

1000 points in Australia is $15.

So $45000 in Australian money. Which is more than $30000 US, but not much, and still not enough for Nintendo to be profitable off a single WiiWare game. Anyone who says Nintendo is lining their pockets with gold at the developer's expense is quite deluded.

I'm not sure quitting wiiware helps the issue anyway.

I wonder if its the same for Virtual Console.

Does a VC game have to sell a certain number of units before the developer/publisher gets paid? I'm surprised at all the poor games on the VC if thats the case and more so at why guaranteed big sellers aren't put on the VC more often by third party publishers. Why put known poor games onto the VC when a publisher has access to most of a developer's history of games?

I think you guys are forgetting something - if a developer chose to release their game in other formats, then it's STILL possible that they won't make a dime. Consider the developer who releases a game on disc and has to cover those expenses. Even an indie developer who releases a PC game on a website might not make money on a game once they pay for servers, customer support, and promotion. So the Wiiware system is comparable to other forms of distribution - either way, there is a certain amount that must be sold before the game becomes profitable.

There are indie developers who are successful on Wiiware and continue to release games exclusively for it. Gaijin games (a group of 3 guys) is currently working on their 4th game in the bit.trip series, and they show no signs of slowing down. That has to mean something, right? They make games that get great reviews, so I guess they sell enough copies to keep developing for the service.

Now, on the other hand, I don't understand why Nintendo doesn't give developers greater control over the price of their game. To me, it seems like lowering the price of an old game would help both parties. Still, as a gamer, these games are so cheap ($5-15) that I can't really complain about price.

In support of the developers, I too am gonna stop buying WiiWare. :/

As others have stated, I'm pretty certain Nintendo didn't strong-arm anyone into signing the agreement.