There is literally nothing on the Wii U when it comes to indies that makes it worth having. Shows that metacritic is a broken metric. Might be that a mediocre game gets reviewed better on the Wii U for whatever reason but that doesn't make it a better game.
I disagree, it's probably about as unbiased a measure as there can be. What you're saying isn't at all the case, when I made that list I was just using the best score and then lumping all of them in together. GTAV was the best reviewed game? Put a 1 in that the box for PC, PS4, XBOne and move on to game #2. Kept going until I hit 10 titles. Same with the indie games.
So when I wrote "9/10: Wii U + PS4" all I was saying was that if you had a Wii U and a PS4 you could play 9 out of the top 10 indie games on metacritic for 2014 (i.e. all but Hearthstone). When I said "9/10: Wii U + PC/PS4/XBOne" for retail? I was saying that you could play all the best reviewed games for 2014 with that combo bar 1 (The Last of Us/Titanfall). That's it. I didn't at all take into account whether or not one version got a better review or even which version came out first.
Those four Wii U indie titles were Thomas Was Alone, The Swapper, Shovel Knight and Child of Light. Two of those are on all platforms and the other two are (or at least will be) on all except the XBOne. So if there was a "Wii U bias" for indies odds are it was in the other direction, because no "Wii U only" indies made the cut. It's a different story with the retail games where all of the three games the Wii U had which were in the top 10 were Wii U exclusives.
That sure was a blunder on Phil Spencer's part to decide that no indies were allowed on the Xbox unless they released on Xbox first/simultaneously. Most indy developers will go "Uh, ok" and publish elsewhere and the gamers are missing out. Worst kind of policy to have.
So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.
There is literally nothing on the Wii U when it comes to indies that makes it worth having. Shows that metacritic is a broken metric. Might be that a mediocre game gets reviewed better on the Wii U for whatever reason but that doesn't make it a better game.
I disagree, it's probably about as unbiased a measure as there can be. What you're saying isn't at all the case, when I made that list I was just using the best score and then lumping all of them in together. GTAV was the best reviewed game? Put a 1 in that the box for PC, PS4, XBOne and move on to game #2. Kept going until I hit 10 titles. Same with the indie games.
So when I wrote "9/10: Wii U + PS4" all I was saying was that if you had a Wii U and a PS4 you could play 9 out of the top 10 indie games on metacritic for 2014 (i.e. all but Hearthstone). When I said "9/10: Wii U + PC/PS4/XBOne" for retail? I was saying that you could play all the best reviewed games for 2014 with that combo bar 1 (The Last of Us/Titanfall). That's it. I didn't at all take into account whether or not one version got a better review or even which version came out first.
Those four Wii U indie titles were Thomas Was Alone, The Swapper, Shovel Knight and Child of Light. Two of those are on all platforms and the other two are (or at least will be) on all except the XBOne. So if there was a "Wii U bias" for indies odds are it was in the other direction, because no "Wii U only" indies made the cut. It's a different story with the retail games where all of the three games the Wii U had which were in the top 10 were Wii U exclusives.
Child of Light only got 77 on PC you have stuff included that shouldn't even be close. The PC numbers are not comparable to the console ones.
Astebreed
This War of Mine
Shovel Knight
Transistor
Legend of Grimrock II
They are a cut above rubbish like Thomas was Alone or Child of Light. (To the point where they are still good for a none fan of the genre like me for a few of them).
The Wii U retail games are the sole purpose in having one. (They are good and exclusive you want them you get a Wii U simple as that.)
PC and any consoles are not at all equivalent though for indies. (PC has 45 exclusives above 75 metacritic - no console has anything remotely comparable.)
Well, first I don't think it makes much sense to include titles that aren't out there. Unless there is some temporary sale, games not out yet don't really add to the value of the system at the point of purchase. Second, I don't think you are painting the whole picture. The PS3 and 360 are very much still supported systems, which is the crux of the problem here.
Well titles not out yet and the perception of future support doesn't get people to buy a platfrom but they are a factor. It's why we see threads on the forums here wondering whether or not the Wii U is worth it because people are worried about "future support". I think at this point it's hard to argue that the XBOne's future is looking as solid as the PS4's is in that regard. Also you've had a go at the PS4 for it's lack of compelling games, listed only one you thought mattered, how many does the XBOne have?
And I don't think there's much reason to bring previous generation platforms into the discussion. They've been supported fairly well up until now but they're starting to fall back quickly. Of the 36 "newest" games listed from one of my local retailers for XBOne the vast majority are also headed to PS4 but only ~1/6th are headed to 360. Compared to the same 36 newest games for the 360 where pretty much everything there is also on XBOne/PS4 or the Wii U where ~3/4 of that first page are games that are only on the Wii U.
The point of this topic was to have a go at the PS4 and XB1, but people decided to focus on the PS4, so I played along.
Anyway. I love more details on those 36 games. Among major releases, I'll give you that the future seems to be more focused, but I'm really focused on now. Right now the PS360 have almost all of the games on PS4/XB1 that with metacritic scores above 80. So if you wanted a system now, those systems would by far be your best options with their back catalogs and newer games. To me that's a better deal than a promise of future generation exclusive games.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
Child of Light only got 77 on PC you have stuff included that shouldn't even be close. The PC numbers are not comparable to the console ones.
Astebreed
This War of Mine
Shovel Knight
Transistor
Legend of Grimrock II
They are a cut above rubbish like Thomas was Alone or Child of Light. (To the point where they are still good for a none fan of the genre like me for a few of them).The Wii U retail games are the sole purpose in having one. (They are good and exclusive you want them you get a Wii U simple as that.) PC and any consoles are not at all equivalent though for indies. (PC has 45 exclusives above 75 metacritic - no console has anything remotely comparable.)
Oh FFS..... these are the lists....
Retail, in order (which BTW I didn't take into account): GTAV, The Last of Us, Smash Bros, Dark Souls 2, Bayonetta 2, Metro 2033 Redux, Dragon Age, Mario Kart 8, Shadow of Mordor, Titanfall
For indies (which is harder because of all the mobile games): Hearthstone, Velocity 2X, Shovel Knight, Guacamelee, Child of Light, The Binding of Isaac, Thomas Was Alone, Valiant Hearts, Pixeljunk, The Swapper
That was the list and I then counted how many were available on each platform. I tried to make it as unbiased as I could make it. And frankly I don't understand why you are going on a rant about how I sold PC gaming short given that it was on top or equal top of the list for both lists of games. I mean you're going on about how the list gave the Wii U a free pass for indies despite the fact that I showed the Wii U as having only half the great indies that PC/PS4 have.
That said I do agree that some of the games you mentioned are better than some of the games on that list. Particularly the indie ones. Valiant Hearts for example only made that list because of the high reviews for the iOS version which is maybe unfair. There are plenty of games in that #10-15 range that you could easily argue are better than Child of Light. I personally am enjoying Transistor far more than I enjoyed Child of Light, I could have just snuck it in there because its only in there for the PS3 score. Just like I could have probably dropped Papers Please in there given its high iOS review even though calling it a 2014 game is stretching it.
But I didn't, because I was trying to be as methodical and brutal about the list as possible. If I started to make exceptions for games then it would completely invalidate what I was trying to do with this list I came up with in about five minutes. And again, it still showed precisely what you were trying to argue anyways so I don't see what you're getting all worked up about.
Now that's some self-fulfilling prophecy stuff right there. Nintendo got too lazy to make a good version of their narrative games, like the first 4 3D Zeldas, the first 3 Paper Marios, and the Metroid Prime Trilogy, for the better part of a decade so people don't want them anymore? That's like saying people don't want anymore good Megaman / RE games.
Can't really blame them. Part of the reason that Sticker Star had such a watered down story is because nobody in Club Nintendo surveys cared about the story of the last 3 games. And I guess they were right, because Sticker Star is the best selling Paper Mario game.
And I hardly think that bringing back the director of Super Metroid, hiring a massive team from multiple studios, and putting more focus on cinematics and narrative than ever before really counts as "lazy." Sakamoto is the George Lucas of video games, but it certainly wasn't an issue of lack of ambition. Issue was that nobody at any point seemed to have put a hand on his shoulder and said "Hey... man... I really appreciate what you've done and all, but this script you wrote is trash." And maybe hiring the studio that brought you Tits or Alive to take on one of the most important and iconic female protagonists in history was a mistake, but I found their gameplay pretty tight and enjoyable anyway.
Skyward Sword was fine, and may it haunt you forever.
CLUB NINTENDO SURVEYS involuntary fit You serious? The story in Paper Mario 2 & 3 was great! I don't care what gaming dogma Miyamoto has been reading lately! They already have simple Mario games with no story, they're called NSMB! And Sticker Star sold better because the franchise probably grew in the zeitgeist it released about $20 cheaper than previous Paper Mario games (as price falls demand rises, that's basic macroeconomics). So, in summation, I can blame them because they ruined their series' reputation. Who even knows if we'll ever get another good Paper Mario game?
And you need top men and women to make Metroid, TOP men and women (Team Bewbs, probably not the best pick for a dev). Regardless of how fun the gameplay might have been. I don't know; sheerly out of principal I can't buy a game that treat's gamings oldest prominent female protagonist that way.
And the thing about Skyward Sword being 'fine' 7/10, that's not how it works. That's not how Zelda is supposed to work. You shouldn't come out of a Zelda game lukewarm, you should come out raving, having seen the second coming or gaming! It should be an AMAZING experience, not just 'another Zelda'. That's the entire point of waiting so long between Zeldas, so that they release an amazing perennial game like Elder Scrolls or GTA that sells like wildfire via word of mouth. Skyward Sword sold 3 million, I'm sure, partly as a result of its disappointing quality.
@skywake Does Child of Light really count as an indy? It was internally developed by and published by Ubisoft.
The strict definition is pretty useless. The way I see it Hearthstone and Child of Light have more in common with Shovel Knight and Transistor than they do GTAV and Smash Bros. So If there are going to be two categories then that's where I'd draw the line. And sure maybe there's a better word for the sort of game I'm talking about here but I haven't heard it.
Actually if people think they can come up with a better list of ten games from 2014 that should be measuring both the big AAA support on each platform AND the smaller downloadable "indie" titles? Then go ahead. Come up with a list. Once you've done that maybe then you can nitpick my methodology here. Next time I'll just use a list like this: http://au.ign.com/articles/2014/12/23/the-best-reviewed-games...
@skywake Does Child of Light really count as an indy? It was internally developed by and published by Ubisoft.
The strict definition is pretty useless. The way I see it Hearthstone and Child of Light have more in common with Shovel Knight and Transistor than they do GTAV and Smash Bros. So If there are going to be two categories then that's where I'd draw the line. And sure maybe there's a better word for the sort of game I'm talking about here but I haven't heard it.
Actually if people think they can come up with a better list of ten games from 2014 that should be measuring both the big AAA support on each platform AND the smaller downloadable "indie" titles? Then go ahead. Come up with a list. Once you've done that maybe then you can nitpick my methodology here. Next time I'll just use a list like this: http://au.ign.com/articles/2014/12/23/the-best-reviewed-games...
Most independent games are smaller games, but not all smaller games are independent games. 'Indy' generally means no publisher.
Most independent games are smaller games, but not all smaller games are independent games. 'Indy' generally means no publisher.
Yeah, I get that, but I've always thought of that as a stupid distinction to make. As I said if I'm making two lists of games to show which platforms cover the two sides of the gaming market well? Hearthstone, Child of Light, Shovel Knight and Transistor are going on that second list. They're definitely not going on the GTA list.
Look, if people want to nitpick that much I'll just do the same thing with IGN's list of best games from 2014. Then you can all whine about how IGN is biased rather than all this other crap. Deal?
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
Look, if people want to nitpick that much I'll just do the same thing with IGN's list of best games from 2014. Then you can all whine about how IGN is biased rather than all this other crap. Deal?
I understand the distinction you're making, but didn't realize you were using that criteria. I agree with your distinction too. No need to get testy.
So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.
I then got rid of all the episodic games, the mobile/portable games and DLC. This left me with 19 games all up. The main difference from what I can tell between this and the previous list is that it has more time for the XBOne's exclusives and more time for indies than the previous list. Keep that in mind. As before the numbers show the number of games from that list you can play on each platform or combination of platforms. This time though I used percentages because apparently 8/10 is harder to understand than 80%. Understood? Cool. Here you go.
PC: 63%
PS4: 53%
XBOne: 36%
Wii U : 32%
PC + Wii U: 84%
Wii U + XBOne/PS4: 74%
PC + XBOne: 74%
PC + PS4: 68%
PS4 + XBOne: 63%
Most independent games are smaller games, but not all smaller games are independent games. 'Indy' generally means no publisher.
Yeah, I get that, but I've always thought of that as a stupid distinction to make. As I said if I'm making two lists of games to show which platforms cover the two sides of the gaming market well? Hearthstone, Child of Light, Shovel Knight and Transistor are going on that second list. They're definitely not going on the GTA list.
Look, if people want to nitpick that much I'll just do the same thing with IGN's list of best games from 2014. Then you can all whine about how IGN is biased rather than all this other crap. Deal?
@Haru17
Well whenever someone tries to split games into two groups with smaller titles on one side and big AAA titles on the other this happens. Whenever someone comes up with a list of the best games, even if it's just to make a quick point, people nitpick. I made that first post on a whim and had multiple people have a go at it for those reasons. It gets a bit tiresome.
Anyways, my post on the previous page was an attempt to shut down the "PS4 has no games" thing having just played through a bit of Transistor. I was also trying to ram home the point that unless you own multiple platforms you're going to be missing out on a lot of content. My post on this page was an attempt to take the subjectiveness out of that claim whether the numbers agreed with me or not. Turns out that purely by the numbers PS4 and PC are the best platforms to own if you want the most games with the Wii U being the best secondary platform.
What's indie or not and whether metacritic or IGN are broken or not makes no difference
@skywake Does Child of Light really count as an indy? It was internally developed by and published by Ubisoft.
The strict definition is pretty useless. The way I see it Hearthstone and Child of Light have more in common with Shovel Knight and Transistor than they do GTAV and Smash Bros. So If there are going to be two categories then that's where I'd draw the line. And sure maybe there's a better word for the sort of game I'm talking about here but I haven't heard it.
We really need a term for this, actually. I think we used to have a distinction, too. "Indie" used to mean Garage developer, and AAA used to mean the biggest of the big. There was a whole range on the market before, but now it feels like if it isn't AAA, it may as well be indie...
Child of Light only got 77 on PC you have stuff included that shouldn't even be close. The PC numbers are not comparable to the console ones.
Astebreed
This War of Mine
Shovel Knight
Transistor
Legend of Grimrock II
They are a cut above rubbish like Thomas was Alone or Child of Light. (To the point where they are still good for a none fan of the genre like me for a few of them).The Wii U retail games are the sole purpose in having one. (They are good and exclusive you want them you get a Wii U simple as that.) PC and any consoles are not at all equivalent though for indies. (PC has 45 exclusives above 75 metacritic - no console has anything remotely comparable.)
Oh FFS..... these are the lists....
Retail, in order (which BTW I didn't take into account): GTAV, The Last of Us, Smash Bros, Dark Souls 2, Bayonetta 2, Metro 2033 Redux, Dragon Age, Mario Kart 8, Shadow of Mordor, Titanfall
For indies (which is harder because of all the mobile games): Hearthstone, Velocity 2X, Shovel Knight, Guacamelee, Child of Light, The Binding of Isaac, Thomas Was Alone, Valiant Hearts, Pixeljunk, The Swapper
That was the list and I then counted how many were available on each platform. I tried to make it as unbiased as I could make it. And frankly I don't understand why you are going on a rant about how I sold PC gaming short given that it was on top or equal top of the list for both lists of games. I mean you're going on about how the list gave the Wii U a free pass for indies despite the fact that I showed the Wii U as having only half the great indies that PC/PS4 have.
That said I do agree that some of the games you mentioned are better than some of the games on that list. Particularly the indie ones. Valiant Hearts for example only made that list because of the high reviews for the iOS version which is maybe unfair. There are plenty of games in that #10-15 range that you could easily argue are better than Child of Light. I personally am enjoying Transistor far more than I enjoyed Child of Light, I could have just snuck it in there because its only in there for the PS3 score. Just like I could have probably dropped Papers Please in there given its high iOS review even though calling it a 2014 game is stretching it.
But I didn't, because I was trying to be as methodical and brutal about the list as possible. If I started to make exceptions for games then it would completely invalidate what I was trying to do with this list I came up with in about five minutes. And again, it still showed precisely what you were trying to argue anyways so I don't see what you're getting all worked up about.
The best FPS was Wolfenstein : The New Order by a country mile. Any list excluding the obvious ones like that is worthless. (Especially in-favour of mediocrity like Titanfall).
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
The best FPS was Wolfenstein : The New Order by a country mile. Any list excluding the obvious ones like that is worthless. (Especially in-favour of mediocrity like Titanfall).
Gah, there isn't a gif in the world that's sarcastic enough to show how incredibly self-absorbed and idiotic you're being right now...
The best FPS was Wolfenstein : The New Order by a country mile. Any list excluding the obvious ones like that is worthless. (Especially in-favour of mediocrity like Titanfall).
And if I changed the list to the whims of the forum I'd then replace Wolfenstein with Captain Toad and Metro 2033 Redux with DKC:TF. And personally I'd have no objections to that but there's a reason why I went to metacritic and was brutal with the selection. The same reason why I didn't post the names of what games made that list of 10 initially.
We really need a term for this, actually. I think we used to have a distinction, too. "Indie" used to mean Garage developer, and AAA used to mean the biggest of the big. There was a whole range on the market before, but now it feels like if it isn't AAA, it may as well be indie...
I quite like dividing them into "retail" and "downloadable" but there are the same confusions there. Games you'd call "downloadable" are often available in stores and people are increasingly downloading full retail games. With every passing year that divide becomes less clear. I think at this point, like it or not, indie has become that term. There are exceptions but it's generally clear what sort of game an "indie" game is even if all of such games aren't "indie".
@skywake Does Child of Light really count as an indy? It was internally developed by and published by Ubisoft.
The strict definition is pretty useless. The way I see it Hearthstone and Child of Light have more in common with Shovel Knight and Transistor than they do GTAV and Smash Bros. So If there are going to be two categories then that's where I'd draw the line. And sure maybe there's a better word for the sort of game I'm talking about here but I haven't heard it.
We really need a term for this, actually. I think we used to have a distinction, too. "Indie" used to mean Garage developer, and AAA used to mean the biggest of the big. There was a whole range on the market before, but now it feels like if it isn't AAA, it may as well be indie...
How about big budget and small budget? Size and budget are pretty much the only categories that accurately distinguish the two categories.
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Topic: The Wii U vs. current interests of the console market
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