It's entirely possible that I'm forgetting things, but I don't remember anything mentioning them being close to their homecoming. Obviously they must be somewhat close since at least Ethel is older than Noah and them, but nothing says only a few weeks. And the same is true for Mio anyway. And he gouged out his own eye in order to keep from being mind-controlled, not to make any kind of statement.
I also don't understand why everyone thinks it all just ends after ten years. We have seen one homecoming ceremony, and the person walked up on the stage alive and was played off with flute music and floated away in golden motes rather than blue or red, signaling they were still alive. It seems to me like if you don't go through the dumb ceremony than you can just keep on living. They don't just keel over and die on their tenth birthday. Again, maybe I'm missing or forgetting something.
And all I'm saying is even if everything you are saying is true, if that is exactly what the writers intended and what it all means, that is stupid. A much more defiant act against the consuls would have been to actually kill the consuls, not themselves. The consuls wanted them gone. They gave the consuls what they wanted, just only a part of what they wanted. And they weren't serving a false cause for years. They had no idea there was any underlying motive for the fighting or that the consuls were benefitting from it in any way. They were simply fighting because that was the only way to stay alive. And now that there is another way, they do it anyway and give the consuls exactly what they want. You can feel free to find it painfully human and touching. I find it painfully dumb that they are excited to be free from having to kill each other anymore just to choose to kill each other rather than doing anything good and helpful.
@Xyphon22 I can't say much on homecomings yet, but as for Ethel and Camuravi, it's heavily implied that they were pretty much at the end of their lives. Especially given the term marks on them were fading a good bit.
In the moment they went out defying Moebius, as Moebius were forcing them to work together in order to get rid of the Ouroboros. The consuls in that moment were wanting the opposite of them fighting, and both Camuravi and Ethel disobeyed orders. Their rivalry extended far beyond just Agnus and Keves fighting. The final act of both was effectively defying Moebius' orders in the moment whilst giving themselves one last go in a duel to end all duels.
"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."
@Xyphon22 People find meaning within the context of war all the time. Even if the larger conflict is meaningless, the significance of something as simple as going out on your own terms by fighting your lifelong rival to the death should make sense when we're talking about characters who have only ever known war in the first place.
From a more fully rational, utilitarian standpoint, would it be the ideal choice for them to make? Of course not. But people are rarely rational animals, and the way we choose to spend (or end) our lives can look absurd to others, whether it be due to differing values, or simply because life experience causes us to interpret actions differently.
Currently Playing: Metroid Prime 4: Beyond (NS2); Corpse Factory (PC)
@RygelXVIII Honestly, through replaying I sort of thought that being freed from the shackles of a flame clock is basically like Adam and Eve consuming the fruit of knowledge. It's effectively the main characters starting to become aware of knowledge that was once originally forbidden.
"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."
So, I finished up Chapter 5 earlier this morning. I was looking forward to this chapter having heard it is the best one and a gut-wrenching, heartbreaking story. Having finished it now, if that is the case, then there is no chance this game surpasses X2 for me. I know this is clearly an unpopular opinion and just me personally, but as I just don't really care terribly for the characters outside of Taion, the ending didn't really do much for me. Especially since we've basically known it was coming since the beginning of the game. Honestly, my thoughts on basically the entire chapter can be wrapped up in four words: amazing concept, lacking execution.
The whole thing with the City was really cool. I liked that a lot. Especially Taion going nuts wanting a turn to play with the baby. But it was just walk for 15 seconds to get to the next cutscene. They may as well have just made it one giant cutscene like the end of the chapter was. The sea was great and big with lots of fun quests, but it's kind of a pain controlling the boat. Infiltrating a prison was really cool and unique for the series, but then you get in really quickly and easily and just collect a bunch of fruit. I personally thought it could have really used a bit of getting away from the general Xenoblade gameplay and switching it up a bit, maybe with some stealth elements, but it was just more of the same.
Then please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems a staple of the entire series has been in battles that are kind of showpieces that advance story but don't culminate in defeat, the battle ends when you get the boss down to half health, sometimes maybe 1/4, but completely depleting their health bar means you have defeated them. But all three boss battles (2 with M and 1 with N) you deplete their health and they are just fine, especially N who then cannot be touched in the following cutscene. And after the first M battle it makes a big deal of her power and we cannot defeat her until Taion figures out the secret, which I though was really cool and was looking forward to a different kind of battle where you have to choose strategically who to attack while simultaneously keeping their health up, but then nope! You just attack M normally like every other battle. That was disappointing.
It's still a good game and I'm looking forward to where it goes. I was just expecting more with hearing so many people on here talking about it being the best game ever. I would probably like it more without having those expectations, but it is what it is. There are still two chapters to go to improve my opinion.
A lot of my enjoyment came from doing the side content along with the main story. Mainly since you garner a better appreciation for the characters when doing so. The "greatness" of the story really depends on if you love the majority of the main cast or not, since the game takes a more character centric approach over the action centric approach of previous Xenoblade titles.
Another thing of note is that the main story is mostly seen as great due to the over-all themes and depth that it presents. Xenoblade 3 doesn't really coddle the player and spoon-feed them everything story-wise. It expects the player to put a good bit together themselves.
"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."
@VoidofLight That is a very polite way of telling people who don't like the story that they are too stupid to understand it. I applaud you for that. My doctorate and I will just go sit in the corner now and let the vast majority of people who do love it and are therefore somehow breaking the rules of statistics by being much smarter than the minority enjoy the depths and themes of the game.
But seriously, I have done every side quest that I have come across, both by just following the story and going back to places I've already been. Eunie has grown on me, but the rest, they're just fine. And I think my biggest issue with it, at least with Chapter 5, was just that it was all just so expected. The gameplay was the same even in the prison where it would have been great to mix it up. The battling was the same even in the second M battle where it would have been great to mix it up. The ending of Chapter 5 was exactly what we had been expecting to happen to her since Chapter 1. I really thought and was hoping that after Riku told Noah that he hadn't tried pulling Lucky Seven, he would pull it but instead of attacking N he would kill Mio in order to keep her from reaching Homecoming and thus be able to reincarnate and not be gone forever Now that would have been unexpected and thought provoking and much more moving than what we got. Again, at least in my opinion.
@Xyphon22 I didn't tell you that you were "too stupid" to understand it, and that wasn't what I was getting at. What I was talking about is that Xenoblade 3 has a lot of stuff underneath the surface that makes it so much better. A lot of connections to the previous two games that are hard to notice as connections at first due to how obscure the hints are. A lot of themes that a lot of people who play the game tend to miss. l'm not even trying to imply that the people who know these things are "vastly smarter," or "superior." Genuinely have no idea what you're trying to get at with that.
Also for the "expected" thing, most Xenoblade games tend to not change up gameplay through the game. The gameplay stays the same no matter the scenario. Even the boss fights are pretty much like that with every Xenoblade- aside from the mechanics being different.
As for the Mio thing, I wasn't outright expecting her not to make it. I believed that they would play it safe by the time they got to the City, but they broke that slightly. These games never actually end up with us losing a party member- and for good reason generally. It would throw the entire game out of balance if they actually threw away a party member outside of the very early portions of the game.
"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."
@VoidofLight Sorry, that first paragraph was mostly in jest, which is why I started the next one with "But seriously." And I know the Xenoblade games don't tend to mix it up during the game, I'm just saying it was a little disappointing in these instances because the concept/premise was so good. Infiltrating a prison was awesome and I thought it would be awesome. But nope, just easily entering and collecting fruit. Even all the guards didn't care one iota that there were suddenly a ton of prisoners, some of them Agnian, that they had never seen before. Then the fact that Taion's Mondo would pinpoint who was under M's influence was awesome and could have led to a great battle. But nope, just fighting M like normal even though based on the story that shouldn't have been possible. It's not the fact that they stuck to the tried and true as much as really cool possibilities were right there as low hanging fruit and the game just walked right on by them. And for me personally, that includes what happened at the end of the chapter as I detailed in my previous post what I thought/hoped was going to happen, but nope, they just went with what was already expected. And the first game had that exact thing of losing one of the main characters, so no, it's not out of the ordinary for the series. And especially in this game where every character can do whatever job/class that you want, the balance wouldn't get ruined either.
But at least looking through the forum for XC:DE that popped up there recently I see that I am not the only person who feels slightly disappointed by this game and likes 2 a lot better, so that's nice to know that I'm not alone. But I know none of us are going to convince any of the others, so I'm just going to get back to playing. I just thought I'd share my updated opinions after playing through the so-called "best" chapter.
And the first game had that exact thing of losing one of the main characters, so no, it's not out of the ordinary for the series. And especially in this game where every character can do whatever job/class that you want, the balance wouldn't get ruined either.
This is completely and utterly wrong. Xenoblade 1 didn't actually have a moment where one of the party was permanently removed from action for the entirety of the game. Fiora dies, but she never actually died. She comes back and later becomes a party member again towards the middle point of the game. There has never been a Xenoblade where a party member outright dies and never returns, as it would throw off combat balance and pretty much result in players just opting not to use the character or spend money on getting them better gear- much like with how Final Fantasy 7 is. No one purchases better gear for Aerith usually.
With Mio, it would totally throw off the combat system. The game's combat is literally based around a party of seven characters fighting at once. Sure- every character can be whatever class you wish for them to be, but you still have to level those classes up on those characters. You still have to unlock abilities and level the characters up. Not to mention that even with that, the game is balanced around you having two DPS, two Tanks, and two Healers in your party at all times. The DPS aren't as important, but if you lack in healers or Tanks- you're effectively screwed at that point. Without Mio in the party, you'd only have 5 members along with the Heroes- which would ruin the flow of combat. Unless either Mio were to come back, or someone else from the main story were to join your party- which would end up being fruitless given how many hours are even left in the game anyways.
"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."
Aaaaaand...she's back. So this game also doesn't remove a party member for the entirety of the game. In fact, it doesn't remove one for any of the game except for cutscenes (at least not yet). So I was right and it is once again expected and exactly what they have previously done. But mostly I'm on here to see if you people who clearly appreciate this story more than I do can explain if the beginning of chapter 6 actually makes sense in a way I'm missing or misinterpreting (which is very possible) and how it's not just nonsense trying to explain things that can't be explained.
How do Noah and Mio keep coming back when at least once, and maybe more, they only died when reaching Homecoming (when they had a kid) and that is supposed to keep you from coming back? And if the N and M versions never died, how are the current Noah and Mio here? Noah says that "their intentions" manifested themselves as the current Noah and Mio, but I mean, come on. And why were they always partners and part of the Lost Numbers (and how were they even part of the Lost Numbers but still in this 10-year cycle?) except for in their current "life" where they weren't even on the same side of the eternal war?
It seems to have all been done for the sole sake of making the story emotional and doesn't make it at all rational. Of course, it's a video game about morphing monsters and reincarnating every 10 years so it's not like it has to make much rational sense so I don't really care that much. It's just that big fans on here seem to have explanations for everything so I wanted to see what they are and what I may be missing.
As best I understand Homecoming, it doesn't mean that you won't be reincarnated. It's a lie, an elaborate ceremony to cover up the fact that people who survive ten years of war are basically murdered, so that they will be reincarnated. The only way to break the cycle is to die of old age, and the only people who get to do that are those whose pods are liberated by the City. The game does that quite a lot, i.e. explain something, only for the player to later discover that it's untrue.
As best I understand Homecoming, it doesn't mean that you won't be reincarnated. It's a lie, an elaborate ceremony to cover up the fact that people who survive ten years of war are basically murdered, so that they will be reincarnated. The only way to break the cycle is to die of old age, and the only people who get to do that are those whose pods are liberated by the City. The game does that quite a lot, i.e. explain something, only for the player to later discover that it's untrue.
Kinda but not exactly. The homecoming ceremony was devised by M because she was trying to ruin the system from within, by releasing soldiers from the cycle by allowing their lives to expire normally. Before that, the consuls would just kill the soldiers and return their soul back to the cycle, but M intervened under the pretense of making it a show, and thus it released them from the cycle permanently.
@jedgamesguy Ah, that makes sense. I was thinking in particular of Ashera's story, where a succession of brutal "homecomings" gave her a recurring pain in the neck! Still, M was clever enough to create what would be her eventual way out. Pulling that swap with Mio makes even more sense to me now.
I honestly forgot that M and Crys basically created Homecomings in order to help people escape the cycle. Yet another angle for why Aionios wasn't exactly built to last. If it wasn't for the annihilation, M would've brought about the end of their world by the creation of the Homecoming.
"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."
@jedgamesguy Ah, that makes sense. I was thinking in particular of Ashera's story, where a succession of brutal "homecomings" gave her a recurring pain in the neck! Still, M was clever enough to create what would be her eventual way out. Pulling that swap with Mio makes even more sense to me now.
Yes, Ashera’s constant deaths are a part of this. Especially since she was considered one of the best Keves soldiers, the consuls knew they could not let her naturally expire, so they took her to the back and returned her back to the cycle. Thinking about it in this way makes me appreciate the game’s story much more, it was pretty well thought out when it wanted to be.
The entirety of 3's story is probably the most thought-out in the series at large. So many things that aren't told to you explicitly, but will make sense if you end up figuring it out. It makes the game seem more hollow when you initially play it, but coming back in with knowledge of what's actually being said or what's actually going on changes it heavily.
"It is fate. Many have tried, yet none have ever managed to escape it's flow."
Just finished up Chapter 6. One more to go! There are still so many story things that don't make sense that maybe will get explained adequately in the last chapter, but we'll see. Chapter 6 really did not have very much to it, but I spent a long time just going around doing quests, especially the Ascension quests. Some were really good (off the top of my head, Gray's was really cool). Some were pretty bad (growing potatoes for Zeon has to be one of the worst quests in any of the three games). Some I never found, so I'm hoping they just don't unlock until Chapter 7.
But although I don't have a Favorite Video Game Characters list, if I did, Taion would almost certainly be top 5. He had one line that (almost) singlehandedly makes up for all the nitpicky things I don't like or get about this game. When stuck once again having to help out Dorin and Bambam and he covers his eyes and shakes his head and says, "Once again, prolonged exposure to idiocy inconveniences us," I laughed out loud for awhile. I think that is my new life's motto.
Alright, quick question before I beat the game. I had been trying to do as many quests as possible, but I hit one that I just couldn't figure out how to beat (you have to defeat some enemies but they are in a location that I spent about 2 hours trying to get to and just can't figure out how to get there), so that kind of got me off of quests and I decided I just want to beat the game because it's starting to wear on me. So I'm pretty close now I just defeated X and Y so I can't be that far away from the final boss and I'm just wondering if there are any quests that you think I really should try to do because they are just that good. I've done the ascension quests for all 6 of the main characters and a lot of the heroes, but not all.
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