Topic: What Should Nintendo's IP Lineup Be?

@MarioBrickLayer I think if it hasn't been released for 10 year or more, the IP is dormant. I would say that Advance Wars was dormant until now. What I'm looking at is which IPs can we consistently expect a new release? Which IPs have development teams that get to work on the next game as soon as the last game is finished? Say, we get a new game at least every 5 years for 3 games in a row. If we regularly see that IP about that frequently, I consider that a staple.

I don't agree with that output. I think they should aim to have the following every year (with some leniency for delays and such):

-1 Pokemon game
-1 AAA adventure game (3D Mario, 3D Zelda, Xenoblade, 3D Metroid)
-1 multiplayer game (Mario Kart, Smash, Splatoon, ARMS, any of the sports games)
-1 Party game (Mario Party, Warioware, Rhythm Heaven)
-1 Strategy game (Fire Emblem, Advance Wars)
-2 more games that are at least B tier IPs (2D games, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario)

And all of those need to be new, original games IN ADDITION to whatever ports/remasters/remakes, third party, and weird stuff they have planned.

I think Nintendo's output needs to increase to satisfy that, the only year that's really satisfied that is 2017 and maybe this year (2019 was also close but didn't have that AAA adventure game), whereas years like 2018 and 2020 weren't even close (2020 is excusable because of the pandemic, 2018 they just didn't have a sufficient amount of games scheduled for that year). Nintendo absolutely needs more staple IPs to reach that level of output.

So I was completely correct on one, and basically wrong on another, so the future of Astral Chain and Arms should still be considered an unknown.

@kkslider5552000 Honestly, I do think Rhythm Heaven will end up continuing... just by a 3rd party developer. That usually seems to be their go to when they can't justify making an IP themselves in terms of resources.

...Wario Land sadly seems deader than dead given we're 14 years since the only ok and not quite what anyone wanted from Wario Land Master of Disguise.

@link3710 I never quite got the hate towards MoD, I thought it was fine and I don't really see what it does worse than traditional Wario Land games. I'm not super miffed about it being dormant because we have enough platforming IPs already, but I don't feel like it deserved to die over MoD.

I mean Wario Land: Shake it! came out a year later and was a better received game.

Wario Land I feel like made more sense when games were quicker to make and Nintendo could justify putting out tons of platformers easily. But nowadays, if Nintendo even wants to make a 2d platformer, there are more popular options and Wario has another side series without it anyway. I don't think it really died for sales or reviews or anything, I think it just kinda got forgotten for other things.

@Bolt_Strike As a game? I love Master of Disguise. I had a blast playing it, and it's still a favorite in the 3DS library.

As a member of the Wario Land franchise? Master of Disguise gave up what remained of Wario Land's unique identity, making it completely redundant over other platformers. Compare Wario Land 2 or 3, which held a unique niche in their puzzle - platforming genre a la Portal (except 2D), instead of being platformers in the vein of Mario or DK.

Nintendo really should have doubled down on the puzzle aspects of Wario Land, instead of watering it down as they did.

@link3710 That explains it. I'm more familiar with MoD and 4. I did play 3 once, but I didn't think much of it in terms of puzzle platforming. Frankly, I think Captain Toad fills that niche better nowadays (even though it's technically not a platformer), so again I don't think Wario Land needs to be revived.

@Bolt_Strike The question is will Captain Toad continue, or was that just a one shot? Puzzle platformers are a rare breed to begin with. The genre has never gone big, and it's rare even in Indies. Chances are, Captain Toad will never see another title either.

Nintendo still never make kind of IP like this.
1. Rhythm game like DDR / Beatmania IIDX / GITADORA / BEMANI games.
2. Boxing / Kickboxing games like K-1 with gameplay like Street Fighter or ARMS (Not Punch Out style).
3. Sandbox games like Portal Knights / Dragon Quest Builders.
4. Shooting platformer like Ratchet & Clank style. (Not Metroid)

@link3710 The Switch port of Treasure Tracker sold 1.44 million, which isn't super great, but it sold just below Octopath Traveler (1.5 million) which is getting a sequel in Triangle Strategy, so I think it's enough for Captain Toad to get another shot.

@Bolt_Strike I don't think it will, and not because of poor sales. It just feels like the sort of experimental gane Nintendo has no intention of turning into a series.

I don't think it has the name recognition needed for the kind of budget it'd require, but Pilotwings would work great as an exploration based open world adventure game, I think.

It should actually let you walk around on foot, but give you a jetpack at all times, and as you progress you'd unlock larger & faster craft such as a motorized glider, seaplane, etc., that would eventually enable you to leave the starting island and discover new islands.

You could take on all sorts of activities such as races, time trials, stunt performances & so on, but should also be able to leisurely explore discovering landmarks (the jetpack would be good for navigating into tight spaces that might lead to secret areas) & new airfields which would act as fast travel points and are where you could take off & land in your larger craft.

I only struggle to think of what the context would be for doing all of this, unless only the starting island is inhabited and you'd visit the others under the guise of scientific discovery.

@RR529 Eh, Pilotwings is too close to Star Fox and doesn't quite sell as well, and this genre is somewhat niche. I think they might be better served trying to improve Star Fox to be more like Starlink to satisfy this kind of experience rather than Pilotwings.

Yeah they both involve flying vehicles.

...

some other second similarity

...

THEY'RE CONTROLLED BY BUTTONS

@kkslider5552000 They're both flight sims, that's a pretty big similarity. Star Fox can easily satisfy the demand for "I want to fly around and explore", especially if it's a Starlink-style game where open world space exploration is a major part of the gameplay.

As long as Nintendo has multiple platforming series they rely on at all and Nintendo doesn't want to make a more chill Starfox game, this is not much of a valid point. If they DID, that would be something.

On top of that, people wanted a classic style Star Fox game on Wii, Nintendo released another on rail 3d shooter with Sin and Punishment 2, it sold very poorly, Star Fox fans did not magically grab onto this game that does similar things when they did not get the similar genre Star Fox. And then Nintendo released a Kid Icarus game in a similar style that literally started as a Star Fox game on 3DS less than a year after a Star Fox 64 remake, and I can almost guarantee there was a significant amount of people who only cared about one of these things and did not have a strong opinion on the other. But more importantly Nintendo literally went to a different IP for a game that started as a Star Fox game because they wanted to use that different IP instead of purely relying on that one IP to encompass an entire game genre.

Donkey Kong Country, despite technically being Mario related, is treated as its own separated IP and every console it has appeared on has had an original 2D Mario game as well that had roughly the same controls and enough gameplay similarities you would expect from 2D platformers from the same IP, yet the first game put SNES ahead of Genesis and Returns was borderline the last hugely successful Wii game, with the follow ups to both being less successful yet all time beloved games from the company. I mean you could argue on the internet that Tropical Freeze not existing would be ok because 2D Mario platformers were already being made by Nintendo on those systems, but you could also jump in front of traffic on a highway. Doesn't mean I'd recommend it.

@RR529 I really like this idea. Pilotwings is not a series people talk about much when it comes to dormant Nintendo IPs but it does have potential.

@kkslider5552000 The difference is that platformers are MUCH more mainstream a genre, the highest selling platformer has sold 10 times as much as the likes of Star Fox and Pilotwings. So platformers are in a much better position to afford representation from multiple IPs than flight sims. Maybe if a flight sim game like Star Fox or Pilotwings has a 5-10+ million seller they'd see reason to keep two flight sim IPs around but until then? It's viewed as a niche genre and it wouldn't make sense for them to double down.

Also, I'm not sure Mario and DK are the best examples as game mechanic wise they both feel too similar. I'm of the mind that DK could really use more of a gameplay identity than "jungle Mario with different physics". I'd like to see it work in more beat em up mechanics alongside the traditional platforming to distinguish it from Mario (although this should probably start out as a 3D subseries and only creep into 2D if it's successful to avoid upsetting fans). But even if they don't and keep Mario and DK running as is, they have the sales to justify doing that, Star Fox and Pilotwings do not.

I mean, the sales point is pretty valid. But my main point is that people who would want to play a Pilotwings are not looking for a Star Fox game. Certainly not as a Pilotwings replacement. They want to play Pilotwings and if they want to play Pilotwings they will want to play Pilotwings or something more immediately appealing in a similar enough way, not a Star Fox game with elements taken from Pilotwings. Putting out a Star Fox game like Pilotwings would be weird and I'm not sure if they'd be able to pull it off in a way that satisfies fans of either game. And I'm generally of the opinion that unless you have something strong and immediately appealing, you have to appeal to fans of the IP you're using. "Star Fox game that plays like Pilotwings" might just flat out not be an audience that particularly exists or is worth pursuing, and it would be likely to disappoint Star Fox fans...again. I enjoyed the 3DS Pilotwings fine, but nothing about it makes me want a Star Fox version of it, and nothing about Star Fox makes me wants to play Pilotwings outside of a basic similarity of flying vehicles are neat to control.

But I do think Pilotwings won't come back at least as much because it always existed as more of a way to test 3D gaming than as something that existed to just be a fun video game outside of that context...along with lacking sales.

@kkslider5552000 Yeah, I don't see it. The gameplay is too similar to the point where I think there's a lot of crossover in terms of what the two fanbases want. A Starlink-style game seems like it would easily appeal to both.