Topic: What Should Nintendo's IP Lineup Be?

@MarioBrickLayer I think if it hasn't been released for 10 year or more, the IP is dormant. I would say that Advance Wars was dormant until now. What I'm looking at is which IPs can we consistently expect a new release? Which IPs have development teams that get to work on the next game as soon as the last game is finished? Say, we get a new game at least every 5 years for 3 games in a row. If we regularly see that IP about that frequently, I consider that a staple.

I don't agree with that output. I think they should aim to have the following every year (with some leniency for delays and such):

-1 Pokemon game
-1 AAA adventure game (3D Mario, 3D Zelda, Xenoblade, 3D Metroid)
-1 multiplayer game (Mario Kart, Smash, Splatoon, ARMS, any of the sports games)
-1 Party game (Mario Party, Warioware, Rhythm Heaven)
-1 Strategy game (Fire Emblem, Advance Wars)
-2 more games that are at least B tier IPs (2D games, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario)

And all of those need to be new, original games IN ADDITION to whatever ports/remasters/remakes, third party, and weird stuff they have planned.

I think Nintendo's output needs to increase to satisfy that, the only year that's really satisfied that is 2017 and maybe this year (2019 was also close but didn't have that AAA adventure game), whereas years like 2018 and 2020 weren't even close (2020 is excusable because of the pandemic, 2018 they just didn't have a sufficient amount of games scheduled for that year). Nintendo absolutely needs more staple IPs to reach that level of output.

So I was completely correct on one, and basically wrong on another, so the future of Astral Chain and Arms should still be considered an unknown.

@kkslider5552000 Honestly, I do think Rhythm Heaven will end up continuing... just by a 3rd party developer. That usually seems to be their go to when they can't justify making an IP themselves in terms of resources.

...Wario Land sadly seems deader than dead given we're 14 years since the only ok and not quite what anyone wanted from Wario Land Master of Disguise.

@link3710 I never quite got the hate towards MoD, I thought it was fine and I don't really see what it does worse than traditional Wario Land games. I'm not super miffed about it being dormant because we have enough platforming IPs already, but I don't feel like it deserved to die over MoD.

I mean Wario Land: Shake it! came out a year later and was a better received game.

Wario Land I feel like made more sense when games were quicker to make and Nintendo could justify putting out tons of platformers easily. But nowadays, if Nintendo even wants to make a 2d platformer, there are more popular options and Wario has another side series without it anyway. I don't think it really died for sales or reviews or anything, I think it just kinda got forgotten for other things.

@Bolt_Strike As a game? I love Master of Disguise. I had a blast playing it, and it's still a favorite in the 3DS library.

As a member of the Wario Land franchise? Master of Disguise gave up what remained of Wario Land's unique identity, making it completely redundant over other platformers. Compare Wario Land 2 or 3, which held a unique niche in their puzzle - platforming genre a la Portal (except 2D), instead of being platformers in the vein of Mario or DK.

Nintendo really should have doubled down on the puzzle aspects of Wario Land, instead of watering it down as they did.

Legend of Zelda

The 3D games will of course continue to be the mainstays. Breath of the Wild leads the way, though the series may re-adopt more traditional aspects of 3D Zelda games as time goes on. The leading role of the open world style gameplay may create fan nostalgia for more traditional 3D Zelda gameplay, which may create an opportunity for a multi-faceted approach to the IP down the road where there are original Zelda games made in 3D open world, 3D traditional, and 2D style games. There is a market for 2D Zelda titles, which could take form as remasters of classic games (Link's Awakening) or original titles. Zelda spin-off and supplemental titles have been increasingly healthy in the past decade, and will likely continue to appear, with games like Hyrule Warriors, Cadence of Hyrule, etc. There is demand for a Mario Maker-esque 2D Zelda level editor. Remasters are always in demand for classic Zelda games, as well, and it is likely Ocarina Of Time and Majora's Mask will see another remaster in the coming years.

The Zelda IP overall is handled very well — they have made missteps, but they know their mistakes and address them well. The series is generally going in an appropriate direction. The only concern I have that may or may not prove to become more of a problem in time is the over-saturation or "over-mainstreamification" of the IP through increasingly common merchandising and the potential for films or television shows should Nintendo eventually pursue this for Zelda. If such a thing were to occur, it would be ideal for the IP to go to a Japanese company, and it would ideally be animated. Options like Netflix/Amazon/Apple/Hulu or even Illumination are not the right fit for adapting the series to a film or show format. I feel personally that Zelda is at its best when it is kept as the world's most famous "secret" franchise, by which I mean that the series, despite being naturally beloved and popular, is not quite a household name in the same vein as a Mario or Pokemon or Mickey Mouse-level IP that non-video game players would recognize. I believe that Zelda is best when it takes itself in niche, weird, not-for-everyone directions (Majora's Mask, Link's Awakening), and that it would suffer from the level of corporate focus group testing and soul removal that is so often necessary to taking a popular series and making it a household name. Nintendo would be wise to save these opportunities for Mario, which is an IP that takes well to that role far more so than Zelda.

Mario

Mario of course continues to be handled in traditional fashion, and appears to be taking a lead role in Nintendo's new vision for connecting with consumers outside of the video game experience via films, theme park attractions, etc. Mario games in various styles will continue to be produced, including 3D platformers, 2D platformers, remasters and remakes, Paper Mario-style RPGs, sports and lifestyle games, etc. I would expect more spin-offs, mobile titles, and tie-ins or partnerships with other companies.

Pokemon

Pokemon's future, which will certainly be profitable, is less clear. The software output for this IP appears to lack a clear vision like that of the Legend of Zelda's. The situation appears to be that The Pokemon Company (presumably) is enforcing stiff deadlines on Game Freak for their mainline titles and appear to avoid outsourcing specialist work to other companies as Nintendo did with Monolith for Breath of the Wild, which severely limits the developer's ability to innovate with the IP. The odd spin-off game such as Pokken or Pokemon Snap are brief moments of fresh air, but the series generally appears to be in a rut. The strategy for Pokemon currently seems to be in a cycle of "We refuse to change how we plan our projects and will continue to produce games with short turnaround times for maximum profit," followed by "The decline in quality of our games has become increasingly obvious as evolving technology dates our projects; so, to place a band-aid on the situation without actually addressing it, we will 'listen to fan demand' with titles like Pokemon Legends Arceus while continuing to handicap ourselves from the planning stage, effectively guaranteeing we never give these titles the time or resources they need to be as successful as they could be."

It is likely this cycle will continue and will worsen in the next decade. More low quality spin-offs will appear, with more games like the Tencent-produced Pokemon Unite appearing sporadically to capitalize on gaming fads several years too late to catch fire. I wouldn't be surprised to see a battle royale or Among Us-style Pokemon title in the next ten years. The mainline games will continue to be an industry embarrassment that sadly continue to sell well based on name recognition alone, entirely supplemental to TPC's merchandise sales, which is now the Pokemon IP's real bread and butter.

Donkey Kong

I believe Donkey Kong has been mishandled for the most part since Rare's demise. Retro's work with Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze has been fine, they are certainly very strong 2D platformers, but I feel that much of the "soul" of the series is missing from these entries. The difficulty is there, but the games seem overly polished in places, and the tone is maybe a little less story-driven than it could be. While a new 2D game would be welcome to end the current Donkey Kong dry spell that has been allowed to go on for too long, I believe there is some degree of fan fatigue with the 2D platformers in general, and that Donkey Kong has been over-due for a 3D platforming entry similar to Super Mario Odyssey or a similarly new series direction for some time. Donkey Kong would benefit from a greater focus on characters, be it through storytelling, world building, character interaction, etc. Currently, DK is more active as a supporting character in Mario spin-off games than he is as the main character of his own series, and that is a shame, as this was a powerhouse IP for Nintendo not so long ago, and could certainly be so again. It would be a real indicator that Nintendo are not quite sure what to do with the Donkey Kong series if they fail to put a new series entry on the Switch. With going on 90 million units sold in the first half of its lifetime, now is the time to fire on all cylinders.

Relatedly, the Diddy Kong Racing IP is criminally dormant, and would do well to fill the racing-game-with-an-adventure niche that Mario Kart currently fails to cater to. There is room for Donkey Kong to be used in ways that work within Nintendo's vision for non-game player interactivity, which they are doing with a Donkey Kong theme park attraction. King K. Rool and the Kremlings in particular continue to be under-utilized post-Rare, and ideally shouldn't be, if K. Rool's popularity as a Smash Bros. fighter is any indication. There is room for television shows (yes, just like Donkey Kong Country) and animated films. I feel DK is being especially under-utilized here, as the series takes so well to comedy and is a great fit for media like this. There is room for spin-offs and mobile titles, as well. A mobile title that translates the collect-a-thon elements of Donkey Kong 64 to a reduced minigame form would work very well as an addicting mobile application.

Star Fox

As is the case with Donkey Kong, I feel that Star Fox is another series that has suffered since the loss of Rare, with Star Fox Assault being the sole, albeit imperfect exception. The series is truly being held back by repeatedly returning to the on-rails Star Fox 64 formula in my opinion, maybe this is an unpopular view. The on-rails style can certainly be fun, but no future Star Fox game is ever going to out-do Star Fox 64 at what it does best. Trying to match it with titles like Star Fox Zero is as misguided as attempting to recapture the magic of Ocarina Of Time's dungeons — they are so tight and so intricately designed that the only way you can possibly hope to contend with it is by doing something completely different. Star Fox Adventures would have been a great example of this philosophy in action, but was unfortunately handicapped by Rare's sudden move to Microsoft. While spin-offs like Starlink have demonstrated how versatile Star Fox can be, the inclusion of a toys-to-life feature late in the lifetime of that particular fad did not do the game any favors. The true way forward for Star Fox lies in characters and storytelling. If fan reception to the recent Dinosaur Planet prototype leak is any indication, and even staunchly anti-Adventures fans of the series show love for it, a game with a similar focus on world building and character development with fresh gameplay is what Star Fox needs. As to whether or not such a thing is likely to happen is anyone's guess. The series can go in whatever direction they wish to take it in, but as is the case with Donkey Kong, it would be a sorely missed opportunity if they fail to put a new Star Fox game on the Switch.

Spin-off opportunities continue for the Star Fox series, as ever. The series should ideally mimic the Legend of Zelda in that it would have mainline games that take the series in new directions, with smaller scale games that follow the traditional on-rails style for fans who can accept no substitute. This could be anything from HD on-rails games to an original 2D3D Star Fox game in the graphical style of Star Fox 2. Third-party cameos such as the recent Starlink are always welcome, and hopefully these will continue, despite Starlink's poor sales. Nintendo are often slow, but they are usually dependable when it comes to seeing the big picture beyond the sales performance of any individual game.

Smash Bros.

The future of this series is next to impossible to guess, and there really isn't much in the way of things to critique. They really have done something special with Smash Ultimate. I think it is a blessing and a curse for them in that there is no reasonable way to reduce the amount of fan service now that it's there; it would be a misstep to follow it up on the next Nintendo console with a smaller roster of new fighters plus the usual mainstays. They truly cannot go in any direction but up, which will necessitate more development resources. Perhaps Sakurai would benefit from sharing directorial duties as a co-director with a younger talent? They would ideally follow it up with every single fighter already accounted for in all future releases.

Splatoon

Splatoon appears to have taken on a life of its own as the latest hot original Nintendo IP, and is likely to see numerous mainline sequels and spin-offs in the coming years. I wouldn't change much about how this IP is being handled, though I think it would do well to branch out with smaller scale spin-off games to add dimension to the Inklings. This is an IP that would take well to television or film, preferably as an animation by Japanese artists. I like that care is taken to release the music of the series via official soundtracks, not every series is lucky enough to enjoy this treatment.

Metroid

Though information is scarce, I believe the very public announcement of Metroid Prime 4 having restarted development mid-way through is a key indicator that the future of the series looks increasingly busy and bright. Another company would have simply released an imperfect product or cancelled it altogether. Metroid Dread looks like a great original entry with a strong premise. There is not much I would change other than advising that they don't go so many years between releases in the future. They would be wise to avoid utilising Metroid for entry level spin-offs like Federation Force in the future, as Metroid is best as a "core" IP. There is room for taking the series in new directions in terms of tone, which I think Metroid Dread does a fair job of demonstrating. Metroid and horror gameplay seems to be a match made in heaven.

Fire Emblem

Fire Emblem in my opinion appears to be almost overly-healthy in terms of the releases and resources it receives. Everything from consistent new games to mobile applications, Smash Bros. appearances, and something like ten Fire Emblem games released since 2010 (mainline, remakes, and spin-offs), it seems modern Nintendo simply cannot get enough Fire Emblem. Beyond the number of characters in Smash Bros., I can't criticize much here, as the series is healthy and appears to do well.

Famicom Detective Club

This sleeper hit is a great example of post-Iwata Nintendo at their best. No other platform company in the industry is digging to region exclusive back catalogue levels this deep or this obscure. The production of these remakes is a great beacon of hope for other long dormant series like F-Zero, Earthbound, and Golden Sun, which seem young by comparison. Although they may be held back from achieving the success they deserve in North America as digital-only $60 visual novels, it can be assumed that much of the engine work on Mages' part is behind them with this release, and that future entries would surely require a smaller investment. It would be a breath of fresh air to see Famicom Detective Club become a low cost niche staple Nintendo series, with two or three mysteries per console generation.

@link3710 That explains it. I'm more familiar with MoD and 4. I did play 3 once, but I didn't think much of it in terms of puzzle platforming. Frankly, I think Captain Toad fills that niche better nowadays (even though it's technically not a platformer), so again I don't think Wario Land needs to be revived.

@Bolt_Strike The question is will Captain Toad continue, or was that just a one shot? Puzzle platformers are a rare breed to begin with. The genre has never gone big, and it's rare even in Indies. Chances are, Captain Toad will never see another title either.

Nintendo still never make kind of IP like this.
1. Rhythm game like DDR / Beatmania IIDX / GITADORA / BEMANI games.
2. Boxing / Kickboxing games like K-1 with gameplay like Street Fighter or ARMS (Not Punch Out style).
3. Sandbox games like Portal Knights / Dragon Quest Builders.
4. Shooting platformer like Ratchet & Clank style. (Not Metroid)

@link3710 The Switch port of Treasure Tracker sold 1.44 million, which isn't super great, but it sold just below Octopath Traveler (1.5 million) which is getting a sequel in Triangle Strategy, so I think it's enough for Captain Toad to get another shot.

@Bolt_Strike I don't think it will, and not because of poor sales. It just feels like the sort of experimental gane Nintendo has no intention of turning into a series.

I don't think it has the name recognition needed for the kind of budget it'd require, but Pilotwings would work great as an exploration based open world adventure game, I think.

It should actually let you walk around on foot, but give you a jetpack at all times, and as you progress you'd unlock larger & faster craft such as a motorized glider, seaplane, etc., that would eventually enable you to leave the starting island and discover new islands.

You could take on all sorts of activities such as races, time trials, stunt performances & so on, but should also be able to leisurely explore discovering landmarks (the jetpack would be good for navigating into tight spaces that might lead to secret areas) & new airfields which would act as fast travel points and are where you could take off & land in your larger craft.

I only struggle to think of what the context would be for doing all of this, unless only the starting island is inhabited and you'd visit the others under the guise of scientific discovery.

@RR529 Eh, Pilotwings is too close to Star Fox and doesn't quite sell as well, and this genre is somewhat niche. I think they might be better served trying to improve Star Fox to be more like Starlink to satisfy this kind of experience rather than Pilotwings.

Yeah they both involve flying vehicles.

...

some other second similarity

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THEY'RE CONTROLLED BY BUTTONS

@kkslider5552000 They're both flight sims, that's a pretty big similarity. Star Fox can easily satisfy the demand for "I want to fly around and explore", especially if it's a Starlink-style game where open world space exploration is a major part of the gameplay.

As long as Nintendo has multiple platforming series they rely on at all and Nintendo doesn't want to make a more chill Starfox game, this is not much of a valid point. If they DID, that would be something.

On top of that, people wanted a classic style Star Fox game on Wii, Nintendo released another on rail 3d shooter with Sin and Punishment 2, it sold very poorly, Star Fox fans did not magically grab onto this game that does similar things when they did not get the similar genre Star Fox. And then Nintendo released a Kid Icarus game in a similar style that literally started as a Star Fox game on 3DS less than a year after a Star Fox 64 remake, and I can almost guarantee there was a significant amount of people who only cared about one of these things and did not have a strong opinion on the other. But more importantly Nintendo literally went to a different IP for a game that started as a Star Fox game because they wanted to use that different IP instead of purely relying on that one IP to encompass an entire game genre.

Donkey Kong Country, despite technically being Mario related, is treated as its own separated IP and every console it has appeared on has had an original 2D Mario game as well that had roughly the same controls and enough gameplay similarities you would expect from 2D platformers from the same IP, yet the first game put SNES ahead of Genesis and Returns was borderline the last hugely successful Wii game, with the follow ups to both being less successful yet all time beloved games from the company. I mean you could argue on the internet that Tropical Freeze not existing would be ok because 2D Mario platformers were already being made by Nintendo on those systems, but you could also jump in front of traffic on a highway. Doesn't mean I'd recommend it.

@RR529 I really like this idea. Pilotwings is not a series people talk about much when it comes to dormant Nintendo IPs but it does have potential.

@kkslider5552000 The difference is that platformers are MUCH more mainstream a genre, the highest selling platformer has sold 10 times as much as the likes of Star Fox and Pilotwings. So platformers are in a much better position to afford representation from multiple IPs than flight sims. Maybe if a flight sim game like Star Fox or Pilotwings has a 5-10+ million seller they'd see reason to keep two flight sim IPs around but until then? It's viewed as a niche genre and it wouldn't make sense for them to double down.

Also, I'm not sure Mario and DK are the best examples as game mechanic wise they both feel too similar. I'm of the mind that DK could really use more of a gameplay identity than "jungle Mario with different physics". I'd like to see it work in more beat em up mechanics alongside the traditional platforming to distinguish it from Mario (although this should probably start out as a 3D subseries and only creep into 2D if it's successful to avoid upsetting fans). But even if they don't and keep Mario and DK running as is, they have the sales to justify doing that, Star Fox and Pilotwings do not.

I mean, the sales point is pretty valid. But my main point is that people who would want to play a Pilotwings are not looking for a Star Fox game. Certainly not as a Pilotwings replacement. They want to play Pilotwings and if they want to play Pilotwings they will want to play Pilotwings or something more immediately appealing in a similar enough way, not a Star Fox game with elements taken from Pilotwings. Putting out a Star Fox game like Pilotwings would be weird and I'm not sure if they'd be able to pull it off in a way that satisfies fans of either game. And I'm generally of the opinion that unless you have something strong and immediately appealing, you have to appeal to fans of the IP you're using. "Star Fox game that plays like Pilotwings" might just flat out not be an audience that particularly exists or is worth pursuing, and it would be likely to disappoint Star Fox fans...again. I enjoyed the 3DS Pilotwings fine, but nothing about it makes me want a Star Fox version of it, and nothing about Star Fox makes me wants to play Pilotwings outside of a basic similarity of flying vehicles are neat to control.

But I do think Pilotwings won't come back at least as much because it always existed as more of a way to test 3D gaming than as something that existed to just be a fun video game outside of that context...along with lacking sales.