Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@Giancarlothomaz
Also, raytracing really hasn't had much of an impact in the console space with regard to how games look. A few games have implemented it like Spiderman on PS5, but you need to comb through side by side analysis just to see the differences.

The big impact Tensor Cores will have on Switch 2 is DLSS 2.2

That is going to have a massive effect on how games look and run. Because games can be internally rendered at 1080p and upscaled with DLSS to 4k, that means Switch 2 will be able to output resolutions matching PS5/XSX despite being a hybrid system approximately 1 generation behind in power. Basically, advancements in technology will allow Switch 2 to punch far above its class. So even though technically, on paper, it's about on par with a PS4, in practice it'll output games with visual fidelity more in line with a PS4 Pro. Which is absolutely insane for a hybrid console.

Unfortunately, the other big technological advancement made in recent years, VRR, will likely not be implemented on Switch 2. Variable Refresh Rate is a technology where, if the screen is VRR-compatible, it can dynamically fluctuate the refresh rate to match the framerate of the game. I don't think it works well for 30fps but for 60fps it does- I use it on my PC connected to my TV and run everything at 4k 60fps with VRR enabled.

When we see framerate stutters, it's not because the game is running less than 60 or less than 30. It's because the framerate doesn't match the screen's internal refresh rate. Because most screens are 60 Hz (and 120 Hz nowadays), that means framerates of exactly 60 fps match the 60 Hz refresh rate. Framerates of 30 divide evenly into 60 so those also look smooth. That's why games target 30 and 60.

When a game drops from its target FPS, the framerate no longer evenly divides into the refresh rate, and that is what causes the stutters we perceive.

But if not matching the screen refresh rate is what causes framerate stutter to appear, what if there was a way to dynamically match the screen's refresh rate to the game's FPS? So if the game drops from 60 fps to 54 fps, the screen drops from 60 Hz to 54 Hz to match? And what if the screen Hz was constantly matched to the game's FPS? That would, in theory, cause the game to look smooth all the time, no matter how much the framerate bounced around.

Enter VRR. That is exactly what it is, and what it does. But because it's a newer technology, most screens still aren't VRR compatible. And that's unfortunate. Xbox Series X has VRR, and PS5 finally patched in VRR not too long ago. And of course PCs with modern GPUs are VRR compatible (Nvidia uses G-sync and AMD uses Free-Sync, but both are forms of VRR). If Switch 2 screen was VRR compatible, we'd never have framerate issues again (unless a game dropped below 30, but with the power of Switch 2 that shouldn't be a problem for most games). But even SteamDeck didn't use a screen with VRR, so I doubt Nintendo is going to use one.

But maybe it'll at least add VRR capability to the system when docked, so that games played on the TV can utilize VRR (provided you have a TV with HDMI 2.1 that's VRR compatible). That would be the dream.

Maybe.

@JaxonH Thanks for the info. I much better understand what I am reading about what we should, hopefully, expect from the next hardware from Nintendo.

Also anyone who thinks a handheld device, even when docked, would achieve ray tracing even when much more powerful consoles struggle (we will see how developers work with it in the years to come) is expecting way too much. I imagine that won’t be used by anyone on the Switch 2/Pro whatever. It’s not needed. Focus on getting the most out of the hardware to create the best games possible and ray tracing isn’t needed to do that.

@JaxonH intereting, didnt Nintendo Switch use some kinda of DSLL? so it means Switch sucessor would use a more advanced form of DSLL?

@Rambler I saw the opportunity for a wiki joke and I took it.

@Giancarlothomaz
No. Switch cannot do DLSS. As I mentioned in my previous post, DLSS requires Tensor Cores, and Switch does not have Tensor Cores.

And it's DLSS, btw. It stands for Deep Learning Super Sampling and is, as the name implies, a form of machine learning AI upscaling. It's a proprietary technique from Nvidia using statistical machine learning to "train" the game how to fill in data that doesn't exist. When upscaling to a higher resolution, you get a higher pixel count. You could take each pixel and divide it into 4 smaller pixels, but those smaller pixels are all the same. No new data was created. What upscaling does is create the data for those smaller pixels. And DLSS is an advanced technique where millions of images are fed to teach the game what images should look like at higher resolutions- it utilizes machine learning to, well, "learn" how to fill in the pixels with finer detail that didn't exist in the initial, lower resolution image.

@Giancarlothomaz
Per Nvidia:

During the DLSS training process, a 1080P rendered image is compared to an offline rendered 16K image. The differences between the two are then compared then returned to the AI network in order for it to learn and improve its results. This happens within the super computer thousands or maybe even millions of times in a learning loop.

Wow, this came a little early, didn't it?

@JaxonH i see, i must have been confused with AMD Fidelity FX thinking i was DLSS on Switch.

@Giancarlothomaz
Ya, Switch has used AMD's Fidelity FX Super Resolution, which is a more basic form of upscaling that doesn't require proprietary Tensor Cores and can be implemented on both AMD and Nvidia GPUs. But it's better than nothing.

So far Switch has only used FSR 1.0 which is... OK. But FSR 2.0 is notably improved. Switch 2 shouldn't need it if it has DLSS 2.2 but, it's easier to implement so maybe some devs who don't want to spend the time on DLSS can just default to FSR 2.0.

@JaxonH I was about to ask whether DLSS had to be implemented/coded into their games or if was done by the chipset on all games regardless. But then I saw the last post of yours and it answered my question.

@FragRed
I'm not sure how much work is involved- you'd have to do some digging to get a developer's perspective, but I do know each game requires work specific to that title. Hence why only select games on Steam offer DLSS as an option.

I think this is a pretty neat idea. If you could toggle it off and on I think this would be awesome to have.

Man, what a week!

We got a new Dragon Quest game and a new Final Fantasy and both are excellent on Switch!

I've mostly been spending time with River City Girls. Struggled to get into it at first, but the more moves you unlock, the deeper the combat gets. The combos are simple, but there's a lot of interesting ways to combine attacks. I still think enemies HP pools feel a bit too padded for my liking, and some of the bosses are aggravating, but it's a cool game overall.

My Switch's fan is really loud and it's only on the home menu, this is the second time it's done this and this time it's not stopping.

I'm going to exchange my Switch tomorrow.

The Switch is now my least favorite console because of the freaking errors

@kaisu I'm gonna exchange it and get an OLED. This has been quite the year for me and the Switch.

It's not dirty at all it's pretty much like new

@Giancarlothomaz
OLED is on some very mid range phones, it's not a flagship feature and hasn't been for a while. Case and point my current phone is 3-4X cheaper than what most people would call flagship phones. It has more power than the Switch OLED and a similarly sized screen. It was intact cheaper than the Switch OLED. Its screen is OLED, 1080p, 90Hz.....

@Rambler
Ray Tracing is super old, probably older than other 3D rendering techniques I think. The problem is it takes a lot of calculations because instead of going "this pixel intersects with this part of this object with X lighting and Y texture" you go "this pixel intersects with this part of this object at X angle with Y properties and then scatters to new paths that hit.... and hits this light source"

All NVidia did was come out with a card that could do those calculations fast enough it became viable for gaming first. That's it

One of my UNI assignments more than 10 years go (oof) involved playing around with a
Ray Tracing renderer. All of the blockbuster CG animated movies are ray traced

@skywake i see i trough most Samsung phones used OLED display(or AMOLED as they said in most of they in the intermidiate premium phone like the A and M line and the top of the top with fold and S line), i always associate OLED display with Samsung(they use it in everything).

@Kermit1Pineapple Restarting the console fixes that. I've had that problem since last year (randomly occurs) but refuse to get a replacement Switch because of how sure I am that TotK launches with more powerful hardware.