@Giancarlothomaz
What are you talking about? Plenty of people speculated something like the Switch could come after the Wii U. Literally the first post on this thread is a poll from a full year before the Switch reveal asking what the NX would be.
Most people, including myself, were picking the relatively status quo answer. That Nintendo would come out with a home console and a portable console and that "NX" would be one of them. In my mind the only difference this time around would be that these two consoles would be significantly more cross compatible. Maybe even the same architecture. But in my mind you'd still have a home console with a higher power/thermal limit so they could compete on power and separately a portable version of it that was more of a sub-360 tier product
The second most popular option way back a full year before the Switch reveal trailer? A portable console you could connect to your TV. Second page of this thread I said this option was possible but then went on to say that this "wouldn't be a hybrid" like some pedant. That it would be a 3DS successor. And in my mind was... going to be a step back from the Wii U in terms of power
The only surprise to me was that it ended up being a bit more than the Wii U, not under, and I forgot that Nintendo doesn't care about what Sony/Microsoft are doing
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
An opinion is only respectable if it can be defended. Respect people, not opinions
@Giancarlothomaz
Unpredictable within the confines of certain predictability
For example.
We didn't know what Switch would be, but we did know it would play video games. That much was predictable. Likewise, we knew it would play games on the TV, handheld or both. That much was predictable. We knew it would have a controller with buttons and analog sticks. That much was predictable.
Being "unpredictable" just means not being able to precisely predict exactly what it will look like. Doesn't mean we can't predict the general form it takes.
And that's more true now than ever before.
Because Nintendo eliminated their separate console and handheld departments to merge and form one unified division that does both, we know for a fact it's not going to abandon portable play. That is predictable. That is certain.
We also know the chip they're using, which is a mobile chip on par with PS4/X1/Steamdeck. This ELIMINATES UNPREDICTABILITY. We literally know what they're doing because the chip is mobile. There's no "unpredictability" when you already know the answer. We have the answer already.
Furthermore, common sense dictates there's only 3 options- TV, handheld or both. There's no other viable mainstream choice. Now, using the brain God gave us let's do some logical deductive reasoning. It won't be TV only. Why? It's irrational and senseless, as history proves it's a losing proposition- there's not one justifiable reason to suspect that would be the case. Likewise, it won't be handheld only. Any handheld can just as easily dock to the TV adding additional value by also catering to TV players. There's no logical reason to release a handheld that can't dock to the tv (unless it's a supplementary model like Switch Lite).
That only leaves one option... hybrid.
On top of all this, Nintendo never abandons a successful direction. Gameboy was massively successful and we got GameBoy Color, then GameBoy Advance. DS was massively successful and we got 3DS. Wii was massively successful and we got Wii U. All of these successors carried on the core concepts of their predecessors. Switch's massive success will give us Switch 2. And more importantly, hybrid gaming has been the holy grail Nintendo has been trying to achieve for decades, going back to Wii U off-tv play, GameCube handle with a screen, GBA Player on GameCube and even the GameBoy player on SNES.
So no. The only "unpredictable" aspect of Switch 2 will be the finer details and gimmicks. The core system WILL be hybrid, 100%, guaranteed, take it to the bank, pigs will fly before Switch 2 isn't hybrid.
Nintendo only ever took completely new, radical changes in direction when their business was failing or trending downward, and they wanted to throw something at the wall to see if it would stick. Every single Nintendo console from NES to GameCube took the same form- TV only power console, and even after that it was still TV only. The core format never changed until Switch.
Every single handheld from Game & Watch to GBA was a handheld only single screen pocket device. And even after that, was still a portable pocket device. The core format never changed until Switch. Likewise, the core concept of Switch will remain unchanged.
From the early 1980's to 2017- almost 40 years, Nintendo was predictable inasmuch that they released tv-only consoles, and portable-only handhelds. They may have dabbled with new buttons or analog sticks, motion controls, an extra screen or a cheap 3D effect, but at the end of the day, one thing was certain- they made tv-only consoles and portable-only handhelds. As of 2017, they now make tv-portabe hybrids. Maybe the next Switch has a Jetsons antenna, or a curved screen, or pops out a hologram... who knows. But one thing is certain- it will be hybrid. That is the new normal, probably indefinitely.
Psalms 22:16 (1,000 yrs before Christ)
They pierced My hands and feet
Isaiah 53:5 (700 yrs before Christ)
He was pierced for our transgressions
Zachariah 12:10 (500 yrs before Christ)
They will look on Me whom they pierced
I'd argue that Nintendo has never really been that unpredictable it's just that they tackle the problem from a different angle. Nintendo is a game developer/publisher who happens to also have a hardware platform. Sony and Microsoft have hardware platforms and just happen to also own some game studios. Wo when Nintendo gets to the R&D stage for new hardware? They have game developers in the room, in the executive.
Picture the Wii R&D meetings, the hardware team comes in and lays out what new technologies they can play around with. They drop onto the table Bluetooth 2.0, wireless controllers with ~1Mbps of bandwidth. A platform minded company would just go "cool, more reliable controllers". A game development minded company? You can bet someone chimed in and said "can we put a mic on it like we had on the Famicom? What about a speaker?". Hardware guys chime in saying "sure, you could possibly even push a low res B&W video stream. Maybe an IR camera?". "IR? Like a TV remote....." etc, etc
The Switch? I think the Switch was just the inevitable end game for Nintendo. As soon as portable hardware got to the point where it could scale well enough to TVs? You don't need a home console. As I said above the main surprise for me with the Switch is that Nintendo's threshold for "scale well enough" was a tad lower than mine and mobile hardware progressed a tad faster than I expected
And when I look at what new tech has come out since the Switch? I mean, there's nothing really obviously game changing in there. Lots of nice things but nothing that will massively alter form/function. We already have a portable you can hook upto your TV with (relatively) high capacity, low latency media and a reasonable amount of controller bandwidth. I mean Bluetooth 5.0 can do 2Mbps but while that's double it's.... eh....
I mean they could go down the WiFi controller route they did with the Wii U, that's more viable now than it was back then. That would allow them to throw a camera, screen, mic, speakers etc on it. But that's also something they could already do on Switch if they wanted. And even then, the Wii U was basically a HD version of the Wii with a screen in the controller. It was a huge gamble and a large part of the cost but it wasn't fundamentally different. Nintendo could have bailed on the concept in the same way Microsoft did with Kinect on XBOne
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
An opinion is only respectable if it can be defended. Respect people, not opinions
Psalms 22:16 (1,000 yrs before Christ)
They pierced My hands and feet
Isaiah 53:5 (700 yrs before Christ)
He was pierced for our transgressions
Zachariah 12:10 (500 yrs before Christ)
They will look on Me whom they pierced
@skywake maybe VR is the next inovation Nintendo is planing for Switch sucessor, they tried VR on Virtual Boy, but failed, did VR on Labo but was midly sucesufull.
I'm confident that "Switch 2" will be a hybrid successor to the Switch. It will be the most "iterative" Nintendo console since the SNES.
There will be interesting things in it/surrounding it - maybe some aspects will build on the better ideas of Labo (a better screen, built in accelerometers and more power could potentially make a low end VR solution a more interesting possibility). Maybe we'll see Nintendo more confident in leaning in on some "handheld only" features like TATE mode that they deliberately hobbled in their initial marketing push because of the stigma of it being pigeon holed as "just a handheld".
There might also be odd or quirky things built in that we're not expecting that will be big in the initial marketing but which ultimately prove peripheral. I'm skeptical about this though - Nintendo got burned with Wii U and I think their approach to marketing even slightly strange things will be more Labo like in the future - revealed only when the format is well established.
At it's heart though "Switch 2" will be a more powerful Switch. I'd also be astonished if it's not backwards compatible - I think they will want to continue releasing some select software on Switch (probably lots of fairly "easy" HD ports of second tier Gamecube and Wii games) for years to come and backwards compatibility makes that a smoother process.
Confirmation from Kamiya himself Bayonetta isn't going anywhere. I said it from the start. They're not just gonna abandon their most well known character.
Now maybe ppl can finally stop trashing the ending
Psalms 22:16 (1,000 yrs before Christ)
They pierced My hands and feet
Isaiah 53:5 (700 yrs before Christ)
He was pierced for our transgressions
Zachariah 12:10 (500 yrs before Christ)
They will look on Me whom they pierced
I'm not a big Pokemon fan so I'm not that affected, but I'd be crushed if I was heavily into the series. Not because of bugs or polish or assets clipping. Even Monster Hunter World and Rise has clipping assets. That stuff can easily be brushed aside. What kills me is the framerate taking a jog all throughout the 20's. They have Nintendo in their corner, who knows how to optimize better than any other development studio out there (save perhaps Rebellion). All it would take is swallowing their pride and asking for a small assist team to help oversee development.
Ah well. I'm just glad we got Arceus. Given the state of Pokemon it feels like a miracle Arceus doesn't have severe performance issues.
Psalms 22:16 (1,000 yrs before Christ)
They pierced My hands and feet
Isaiah 53:5 (700 yrs before Christ)
He was pierced for our transgressions
Zachariah 12:10 (500 yrs before Christ)
They will look on Me whom they pierced
@Giancarlothomaz
I don't think VR is a direction they'll go. I mean it certainly makes more sense now than it did 5 years ago. But fundamentally it's a pretty limiting technology and the cost is still high enough that it can't really be a side feature.
The only way I see it happening is if they released a VR product in addition to a new Switch. i.e. two entirely different devices. And even that I think is a bit unlikely given Nintendo's strategy lately has been all about consolidating hardware to reduce development overheads. Releasing a VR product would be a step backwards
I think @StuTwo is pretty much on the money. I think we get something that's more or less the Switch but with updated internals and maybe a few I/O bells and whistles. Eg a camera, 3D, near field gesture sensor, more input specific haptics i.e. resistance on the stick or analogue trigger. They could do something like add capacitance to the face buttons making "resting on the face button" an additional input. Lots of things they could add to it
But fundamentally? I think it's a fairly safe bet it'll still land somewhere where we can pretty confidently call it "Switch 2", "Switch Pro", "New Switch", "Super Switch" or whatever
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
An opinion is only respectable if it can be defended. Respect people, not opinions
@JaxonH
I'm a pretty big fan of the series, this release definitely crossed that line in the sand for me in terms of performance. I don't want to reward this level of unpolished release so I'm skipping it. Hugely disappointing. I've said elsewhere that a lot of this could have been papered over with new hardware and I think it's fair to say that would've helped a fair bit. But it's also definitely a case of there being a release date and higher ups demanding they hit it.
The game wasn't ready, clearly, and I think that does more damage than any delay might have.Well, more damage in the minds of people like me. It seems gamers be gamers and still buy the game regardless. Which is exactly why this sort of thing keeps happening.... I guess at least until they've tarnished the IP enough that they stop generating new fans
......... with that said, I say this as someone who has nostalgia for the poor performance of some titles. Stunt Race FX comes to mind. Also in high school I played a lot of Vice City and C&C Generals on an AMD Duron with a TNT2. When I revisited these games fairly recently I realised it wasn't the same without being able to drive faster than the textures load or having the framerate turn into a slideshow when you drop a couple of nukes. So maybe in 10-20 years time there will be people on this forum talking fondly about how broken Scarlett/Violet were
@skywake
Ya, I don't disagree more powerful hardware would help in a vacuum. But the root cause is shoddy development. If they had access to more powerful hardware, they wouldn't have made the same game with the same textures and resolution to ensure it ran well, they would have instead pushed the boundary to its max just like they did here with Switch, and it would have been the same result.
Because X/Y also had framerate issues that could have been solved with more powerful hardware in a vacuum. Which they now have that more powerful hardware with Switch. But as we see, they didn't just release an X/Y quality game that ran perfectly. Instead, they pushed the envelope once again to the point the game struggled on the more powerful hardware. If they had Switch 2, it would likely be the same exact thing. Until they learn how to code properly I don't see this issue going away next generation.
Psalms 22:16 (1,000 yrs before Christ)
They pierced My hands and feet
Isaiah 53:5 (700 yrs before Christ)
He was pierced for our transgressions
Zachariah 12:10 (500 yrs before Christ)
They will look on Me whom they pierced
@JaxonH
There's a subtle difference between pushing the hardware to its limits because your scope is too big and pushing the hardware to its limits because you were rushed and had no time to polish. I think the 3DS games and to a degree Arceus suffered from performance issues due to scope creep. These games I think it's a bit more lack of polish
The thing about software is that it's super easy for a first cut to be 2x, 10x, 100x slower. For example recently at work we were re-writing some legacy code, not game dev but same principle. There were some paths where performance went from minutes to seconds (yay, outsourced code!). Of course new hardware means you can get away with more, if you can do a thing 4x faster that 10x slower code will only be 2.5x slower on newer hardware. But when you see things like the massive hitching? Those seem more like one of those 100x type poor optimisations.....
I think this video probably shows this idea off a bit better than I can explain. Extremely well optimised N64 code is still N64 code and lives within the limits of the N64. But, there are still gains to be had even with a (relatively) well polished title like Mario 64
@Kermit1Pineapple
Everything old is new again. That's literally what I said on page 2 of this thread. I think that ship has sailed, I don't see why they would bother with a non-portable console. They'd still want to be Tegra so the only thing they'd gain would be potentially more storage expansion options and a bit more thermal headroom. I don't think that's enough to justify it
I do think it's well within the realms of possibility, it could make some sense. But I suspect it'd be more along the lines of a cut-down model than a higher performance offering. Because a non-portable Switch is basically a Switch minus the battery and screen and the major selling point of being portable. So you start that equation a solid $100 cheaper in BOM
If it was to happen I see it as a way to maybe keep selling X1 tier Switches for a super budget price. Alongside maybe the Switch Lite continuing to exist. Then separately having a premium model being portable with a newer SoC
Just elaborating on that last point. A non-portable Switch would more or less be just a Shield TV in terms of raw hardware, those sell for around $300AU give or take. In comparison they're selling the Switch Lite for $330AU, OG Switch for $450AU and OLED for $550AU. Bundle it with Switch Sports or Ring Fit Adventure. Not a product for people who lurk on these forums but potentially a quick late v1 Switch gateway into the ecosystem or like a "second TV" Switch
What I don't think would make sense would be a $550AU TV only Switch with something like a higher clocked Tegra Orin SoC that has more thermal headroom. Because at that price point you'd just, you know, put a screen on it anyways......
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
An opinion is only respectable if it can be defended. Respect people, not opinions
The biggest thing causing the Scarlet/Violet problems is probably the 3 year new Pokemon generation cycle (gap is too small) and that you sometimes see multiple new games per Pokemon generation (e.g. Gen 8 had Sword/Shield and Legends Arceus). If you look at other Nintendo franchises, the Switch era has mostly seen 5+ year gaps.
Combine that with the situation where we probably would've seen new hardware release this year if TotK was still a 2022 game and you can see how things ended up with Scarlet/Violet's performance issues.
I think it's good to show what a downright shame it is compared to the standard of what we should be getting for one of the biggest IP in gaming
Psalms 22:16 (1,000 yrs before Christ)
They pierced My hands and feet
Isaiah 53:5 (700 yrs before Christ)
He was pierced for our transgressions
Zachariah 12:10 (500 yrs before Christ)
They will look on Me whom they pierced
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