Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

You know, Mega Man is feeling kind of meh for me. On one hand, it feels like a faithful representation of NES gameplay. On the other hand I don't think that's a good thing for anyone but existing fans and certainly won't draw a new audience. I'm glad fans get what they've been waiting for out of it, but the sheer frustration, cheap deaths, followed by very limited lives and extreme distance between checkpoints feels like problems I left behind 20 years ago (when I was a lot less impatient ) It follows the old "There's only 8 levels so each one needs to last you a month of retrying the same thing over and over" design. I know that's what MM always has been, but....coupled with cheap deaths (the falling blocks in Rock Man's level with the conveyor belts....one hits you and you're stunned and the belt drops you off the cliff. ) And that old school, once you get past that then you have to do the next part...and then the next part, and then the boss, and if you error twice it's back to start. I suppose there's an audience for that still, but ouch, that design is so dated and, honestly, unfun. Which is a shame because the feel, the music, etc really gets me into it, and I keep retrying but after a dozen tries of spending time and getting absolutely nowhere it's back to Octopath.

@NEStalgia I haven't tried it in the demo, but don't the difficulty options add more checkpoints to levels and give more starting lives? There's no shame in choosing difficulty options directly built into the game just to "preserve gamer cred".

That said as I've said earlier, I'm lukewarm on Mega Man classic and X, but that's because I mostly just find them boring. Technically I actually think they're designed fine with patient play trumping over almost everything, it's just that I'm not really enthusiastic about Mega Man.

But Mega Man Zero? That is a ton of fun because imo melee combat is always more fun than shooting, no matter the genre, and it just clicks with me much more. Although it's even harder than classic and X so you probably won't like that subseries either.

If Mega Man could point his arm in more than one direction when he fired, I might give the game a chance. As it is, it just feels like an 80s game in a modern-ish skin.

@NEStalgia

If you want easier Megaman games to get into, the Legends series is probably the easiest of the main timeline games (it's a 3D shooter though), while ZX is probably a bit more approachable by vein of it's modern game design. It's considered about as difficult as the Zero games, but more approachable for newcomers thanks to design choices.

Then you have Battle Network and Star Force, both of which are far easier, but they're basically a different series entirely being action RPGs.

@EvilLucario True, I keep forgetting there's difficulty choices....I tend to just play everything on "normal" to get the sort of intended experience. I might try that....but then it still has that NES era problem that if it gets easy to get through, then there's little game available (and yeah probably becomes boring.) The gameplay is really cool, but the foundation of it, the level structure etc is severely obsolete in the wrong ways. I'm starting to understand why Capcom was uninterested in doing MM. "Modernize" it and the core fanbase will be livid they broke it and dumbed it down. Keep it traditional, which they did, and the core fanbase will be elated.....and will also remain the only customers..... They did right with the $30 price but I wonder if $25 may have been better in keeping it inline with indies. It's very well done as a throwback to classic games.

Granted with Souls, Hollow Knight etc, I guess "hard for the sake of hard" is a trend now. I can only guess it's a trend with people under 25.....after that that kind of patience is lost forever. When you're a kid it's like "yeah, I will spend all day and all week doing this and I'll get it eventually, this is so fun trying to get it!" Eventually that becomes "I've spent 20 minutes on this and have got nowhere, why am I wasting this time?" I don't mind hard, just let me start near the hard part so I can keep trying it and working on it. Don't make me repeat 10 minutes of easy tasks each time I want to try the challenge again. That just frustrates. Challenges are fun. Gauntlets are irritating. Cheap deaths in the gauntlet are infurating. And Mega Man appears to be a gauntlet. (Somehow still more fun than Hollow Knight, but not enough to actually keep reliving 1-1 over and over. That worked when I had 6 games and couldn't rent another until next week, not when I have 200. )

@gcunit This. Not shooting upward stunned me. That's not even an 80's limitation. That's just Mega Man. Then again, the 80's game in a modern skin is exactly what fans wanted from it, so I suppose they did well.

I think considering this was to revive the franchise after Capcom rather efficiently killed it, doing something drastically new would be a dumb decision.

Look at Sonic. Made a flop, tried something new, made it worse.

Imagine if Dark Souls 3 was announced but after extensive years of hiatus and neglect and wasnt in line with the basics.

@NEStalgia Idk. I personally love hard games but easy games like Kirby are also lots of fun if there's other stuff to make the game interesting. But I don't think Mega Man is all that unfair. There are pockets of bullcrap like Mega Man 3's Doc Robot stages with like NO checkpoints, but it's fine most of the time.

@gcunit Look into Mega Man & Bass and play as Bass then, he can aim in every direction.

@Knuckles-Fajita True. I do think they probably did the right thing. Or maybe there's no right thing they could do with it. Abandoning the classic play would do no favors, and yet the classic play has really not aged well. They sold it at a budget "not quite indie" price which helps during a time while the iron's hot for "retro throwback, please make me suffer" kind of games. What is wrong with people?

@EvilLucario Yeah, I get the idea you're a sadist And that's "in" right now for some reason (I still don't understand why so many people enjoy being intentionally frustrated.....challenge is one thing but intentional frustration is another.)

The unfair things, are, again rock man's level with the conveyor floors, falling blocks, etc. Inherently that's not unfair. But when you get nicked by an enemy from above or a rock, and drop down in a way that could salvage it, but because it forces the stun frames the conveyor just drops you off a cliff, that's unfair. You could have recovered but the game denies you the chance and becomes "don't get hit." Which I still wouldn't mind, but then it resets you to a checkpoint practically at the beginning of the level because it dumped you down a cliff. That's gross and just not fun.

Once you get use to the weird ass controls, Mega Man Legends is (mostly) easy. Not played Legends 2 yet, just so you know. But MM Legends was made at a time when nobody really knew what to do with camera controls. Then you get to the bosses. At which point you run into the intersection of Awkward Camera/Turning Controls and Unable To Move While Aiming. Which makes bosses far far harder then they had any reason to be. It is a good game, overall. But the camera/turning controls are awkward at best, and extremely clunky at worst. And as I mentioned, you're completely incapable of moving while using lock-on targeting. Which means you're constantly turning your entire character (instead of just the camera) to see the boss. And you need to see the boss to know when to dodge or how to dodge. But if you're shooting at the boss (which will require you to lock-on to their weak point) you're not moving. Which means you can't dodge...

Indeed it does. Fingers Crossed.

Does anyone else think a Star Wars Episode 1: Racer type game could be interesting on the Switch? I use to have that game, and it was rather fun to play.

@FaeKnight Anything Star Wars would be most interesting on the Switch. You can buy a Star Wars collection on Steam, I'd happily take a port of something like that. Still never played more than about 5 minutes of KOTOR

And fwiw, I didn't buy Mega Man 11, I just tried the demo.

@ReaderRagfish LOL I'm aware of that irony. I have many fond memories of NES games and I still enjoy seeing many of them again, however I'm not under any illusion at all that most of them are actually good games. They were good games back in their time when they were the only game, and the best that was available at the moment. It's like DOOM VR....it's not actually good VR, it's just one of the best examples for the moment until a good one is made The NES was kind of that. So I love it in context for what it is, and when it was, but the limitations and inexperience of that era don't really apply well after better things were made, which really happened in short order with the SNES representing near perfection. I'd love a retro remake idea that remade the old games in idealized forms (I.E. the way we remember them being rather than the way they actually were.)

@subpopz LOL, hey I've never played Mega Man before! I played 1 briefly on WiiU but back in the day I just never really picked up Mega Man for some reason. I presume the box art turned me off at the time....box art is kind of all we know of games back then I went into it totally blind.

@ReaderRagfish Good point, yeah, I love that stuff. Well maybe not NSMB....that's one case where the original NES versions actually remain superior....a rare example.

@NEStalgia I'll defend New Super Mario Bros U as that game is legitimately fantastic and is a step above the NES games. Everything else though, yeah.

Super Mario Maker (Wii U) is by far the best modern 2D Mario game though I do admit that NSMBU suffered from 2D platformer oversaturation, I look forward to replaying that on Switch in January.

Mario Maker was a very basic game though, limited objects, items, enemies. Not to mention a severe lack of good, and unique Nintendo-made levels. I'll take most 2D Mario games over Mario Maker any day.

My problem with Mario Maker would be the sheer number of player created BS levels that can only be completed if you're the Best of the Best or know/find the dev trick the creator had to include so they could beat the level. While everyone would like to think they're capable of creating a good Super Mario level, that's not actually true.

Hell, in Mario Vs Donkey Kong: Minis on the Move on 3DS I tried my hand at making a level. And even with knowing the exact trick needed to complete the level and tweaking tile drop rates over and over, the level is still nearly unplayable.

While Mario Maker did have plenty of autoscroll and ridiculously hard levels, I found plenty of fun levels some of which were more fun than official Nintendo levels. It definitely has room for improvement and Miiverse's "successor" for the Switch being Twitter/Facebook complicates Mario Maker's future (keeping 3DS/Wii U Miiverse or introducing something like a "Miiverse 2" would've been better) but I have no doubts an enhanced Mario Maker port or a Mario Maker sequel on Switch has the potential to be fantastic.