Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

I think with Sony's recent announcement of further pushing the PS Now service onto PC, TVs and other areas, and that Microsoft is looking at Xbox as a service, it says the future in gaming isn't console but as a service that doesn't need a dedicated machine that requires millions in R&D and that has a lifespan of how long it can be supported before something new is needed to replace it. Consoles may end sooner than we think, perhaps as early as the next 10 years.

This talk of generations is almost as silly as the 'debate' over what constitutes a gimmick, but not quite.

What I'm struggling to get past with this supposed move to hardware iterations, is that iterations are harder to hype and market than a 'brand new' whizz bang generation.

One of the most exciting things in gaming is the birth a new generation, and we're saying it's not going to happen anymore? Well boo to that.

I just can't help but feel that the used market will be bigger than ever - why pay top whack for a new console when you can buy a used one that's five years old and still plays the latest games for a third of the price?

@gcunit It depends on how you approach it. Of course, the idea that a new generation will bring a console that will make the current gen seem nothing in comparison is pretty neat; but that's all there's to that. If this means that backwards compatibility will be a given, and that it will support some form of forwards compatibility; than that's already an improvement over the current situation. It's an outdated format, where 5-year old machines are still the best in the console business. Technology improves every year, but consoles are stuck with the same system for quite a while and it doesn't have to be like that. If that means we get more options and more support through backwards and forwards compatibility, then I'm in favour of it.

@gcunit this is funny, you say no one will want the new console, while biasedsonyfan tells us everyone will buy the new one.

I am thinking they are
1.hiding something
2.it dose not exist
3.it name of them going 3rd party

There's a reason why developers still develop games for the PS3 (despite the costs of porting), because they want to maximise their profits. The PS4 and NEO will have the same architecture, so there's no need of porting the game; they're not going to make a game exclusive to NEO when there's a 50 million userbase on the vanilla PS4. Developers don't want better hardware; they want more profit.

Still? When I said this:

And this:

It feels like I'm repeating the same things over and over again..

If that's true, everyone would've jumped from the PS3 to the PS4 and from the 360 to the One in 2013 – that's clearly not the case. It's a lot more complicated that that. Specs are important to a certain degree, but so is price, or the available games or other services.

Anyway, I don't see how 2 console models is going to make things complicated. You want to play PS4 games for a good price, and you don't mind missing out on ''the best possible'' graphics: Buy the PS4 Slim. You have a little extra money to spend or you're looking for more than the vanilla PS4: Buy the PS4 NEO. It's not rocket science.

@andrew20 Is that 1 + 2 +3 or 1 or 2 or 3?

1's a given. They're hiding pretty much everything

2's not happening.

3's not happening. Not yet, anyway.

Come on guys. Don't fall for the spin. I see these new consoles with better specs as a new generation that happens to be the perfect execution of backwards compatiblity. Sony and Microsoft have released their slim models. Traditionally, the next console after those is the next generation. Just because they are not following number convention is just semantics. A name is a name, and they can call it the PS5, the PS4K, the PSNeo or PSTimothy but the fact is it is a different animal to the og model. It's a more powerful beast, but instead of 50 times more performance, we are going to be paying $400 on 6 times the performance. If the rumours are true, then Gen 8 got called out by portable devices and the NX that apparently can touch what an XBox1 can do. (If this is true, it blows my mind!). 'Brothers' and 'families' of consoles is nothing more than damage control for the next gen releasing so soon (and maybe ahead of what they actually hoped).

@GrailUK Well, traditionally Sony never released their Slim console and a new generation in the same year, effectively ending a generation after 3 years. So this is anything but traditionally. If this is a new ''generation'', then so is the new 3DS (even more, as the new 3DS even has exclusive games).

These Project_Dolphin/BiasedSonyFan arguments are getting to be as infamous as Artwark arguments - ie. they get nowhere and continue in circles.

I don't think the Neo and Scorpio are going to do as well as people think, bottom line. All of this other debate is just accessory.

Though someone did say that Neo and Scorpio really are the next "generation" of consoles, and I'm actually inclined to agree. It jives with my theory that, despite Sony's and Microsoft's words right NOW, they are fully prepared to abandon the Xbox One/PS4 should the new numbers be encouraging.

It'll be interesting, if nothing else. I can see the interview now: "You said in 2016 there would be no exclusivity for Neo games, but here we are with <insert gritty military-type sequel game name here> in 2018, just two years later, and you've announced it will only be playable on Neo. What happened?"

"Well, we really did mean that at first. We really did. But when we saw the consumer really giving such support for the Neo we dedicated ourselves to listening; we decided it was best to just move ahead with our more powerful machine and give gamers more of what they want."

lol

You all know it.

@Octane Ye, I see that argument that the New3DS can be seen as the next generation. I ask you, in an industry that is charging full price for incomplete, unfinished games, micro transactions, subscriptions and season passes, is shorter generations with less amazing transitions par for the course? I would say so.

@GrailUK Maybe, but I don't see it as a bad thing – provided Sony and Microsoft keep their word. It can be a good thing actually.

Well there's even a possibility that NX goes the same route really. The Eurogamer leaks suggest there isn't that much different between the NX and the Wii U, almost like the NX is what Nintendo wanted the Wii U to be.

@BiasedSonyFan, okay, but what about this scenario?

NEO is released, but most/all games still play on PS4 (Neo just makes games prettier smoother), and it stays like this for 2 years.

After that 2 years is over, they release NEO 2 (or whatever they want to call it), and they drop support for PS4. All new games are developed with NEO as the base, with NEO 2 acting as NEO acted with PS4 (just makes NEO games prettier/smoother). After another two years, they release NEO 3, and the cycle repeats itself (NEO dropps off, NEO 2 becomes new base model, and NEO 3 is the prettier/smoother console), and then they repeat this again & again.

What kind of cycle would you refer to that as? After all, after so many revisions, the NEO 3 or NEO 4 would probably be as far away from the OG PS4 as a hypothetical PS5 would be in terms of power, had they kept a 5 year cycle.

For a start I have absolutely zero interest in the PS4 or XBOne. I have a PC and intend to get the NX. I only bring up the PS4/XBOne because they're the ones pushing this already.

Because my PC isn't part of a generation of PCs. When the PS4 was getting piles of remakes and I was buying old games on sale. Games which scaled pretty well indeed. I'm also sitting here with my Wii U at the end of its life with games not coming out anymore. But on my PC because there are no "generations"? Game releases never slowed. I expect to get a good 5 years out of my PC from the day I brought it. When you get a console you expect about the same length of time but from some arbitrary date before you brought it.

What about a third scenario that you seem to be glazing over. The one that is actually what people are trying to say here. One where you get new hardware iterations every three years or so. Hardware revisions that play all the same games from the version before it just better. By your definition not a new generation of consoles.

But then they keep doing this endlessly. When the PS4 Neo 2 launches there are some games it can play that don't work on the original PS4. All the games it can play still play on the Neo though. Eventually we get to a point where support for the original PS4 is dropped entirely. It'll still play a few indie games and all the old games are still there. But big flagship releases are skipping it regularly. And nobody is particularly upset because by that point it's a 9 year old console that hasn't been on shelves for 5 years.

This is what we've been arguing. And even if all the other console gamers whine about it? I hope Nintendo does it with the NX. Because it's a far better model than starting from scratch every 5 years or so.

@BiasedSonyFan
So instead of disagreeing with the substance of what you're saying you just want to play a game of semantics? Well ok then. But at what point in this endless cycle of revisions does the next "generation" of consoles start? Because you said yourself that a new piece of hardware that plays all the same games is just a revision.

So where do you draw that line? Like this?
Generation 8: PS4, PS4 Neo
Generation 9: PS4 Neo 2, PS4 Neo 3
Generation 10: PS5 Neo 4, PS4 Neo 5

Oh wait, no. The PS4 Neo can play all the PS4 Neo 2 games so... and the PS4 Neo 3 can play....
Generation 8: PS4, PS4 Neo, PS4 Neo 2
Generation 9: PS4 Neo 2, PS4 Neo 3, PS4 Neo 4
Generation 10: PS4 Neo 3, PS4 Neo 4, PS5 Neo 5

.....
Generation 8: PS4, PS4 Neo, PS4 Neo 2, PS4 Neo 3, PS4 Neo 4, PS5 Neo 5
Generation 9: PS4, PS4 Neo, PS4 Neo 2, PS4 Neo 3, PS4 Neo 4, PS5 Neo 5
Generation 10: PS4, PS4 Neo, PS4 Neo 2, PS4 Neo 3, PS4 Neo 4, PS5 Neo 5

........

see why I think the idea of "console generations" is dead? ... well no, you probably don't. I look forward to your next semantic argument that dances around the point.

@BiasedSonyFan
I never said that I think there will be a 9 year console cycle. I said that I think the idea of console cycles is dead. Since you can't follow what I'm saying here is precisely what I meant in timeline form

2013: PS4, brand new system
2016: PS4 Neo, plays all PS4 games and PS4 still gets full support
2017/18: Original PS4 no-longer sold
2019: PS4 Neo 2. Plays all PS4/Neo games. Some new games only run on Neo
2020/21: PS4 Neo no-longer sold.
2022: PS4 Neo 3. Plays all PS4/Neo/Neo 2 games. Some new games only run on Neo 2
2020/21: PS4 Neo 2 no-longer sold. Support for the original PS4 is basically dropped entirely

@BiasedSonyFan
At some point you have to accept that you can't call it a generation of consoles anymore. You've got to the point where you are accepting the actual facts of what I'm saying. Word for word. Then choosing to call it something different for no reason other than to remain correct.

Remember, you started this argument when you claimed I was saying the hardware would remain relevant forever. For the PS4, XBOne or the NX itself. At the very least you should concede that you misunderstood me back then. All I was saying was the model of console generations in the way it has existed since forever is dead. And that's a good thing. Because that's the sort of future I'm talking about here.

So I don't care what you call it. The word doesn't matter. Because I wasn't talking semantics at all. I was talking literally that the idea of having a new console generation start on a specific date is not needed anymore. We won't get a PS5 or a NX 2. We'll just be watching E3 at some point and realise that all these new games don't run on the original. No fanfare, it'll just be a thing that'll creep up on us.

If you think that's a bad thing then answer this. What year did you buy the 3DS that you're currently using if you have one. Did you get it in 2011? 2013? 2014? If you knew you could get a New 3DS today and it'd play all the NX games would you get one? Because that's the sort of future I'm talking about here.

@skywake The biggest thing here that shows the concept of "console generations" being dead is that they're no longer having to hit the reset button on their ecosystems. It's not a strict cutoff with few exceptions decided by the platform holders.