Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@skywake Well, I often cite Rocket League as my 'game of the decade' (so far) ..sure, you could just put it in the 'sports game' box if you like - but I'd argue that the mix of physics, skill, tactics, teamwork, co-operation, communication (with its level playing field and the addition of cross-network play) separates it sufficiently from anything that we've seen before to really set it apart.

I don't think a game necessarily has to be in a genre of its own to be considered a creative, original experience (I'm not imaginative enough to think of a genre that hasn't already been done!) ..I just feel that the majority of major releases either just take their established mechanics and put them in a new setting (eg. Assassin's Creed) - take established mechanics and return to an old setting (eg. CoD) - or take an established idea and execute it with a high level of polish (eg. Breath of the Wild) ..there's no problem with that as such - I just think that, among the bigger players in the industry, there's perhaps an over-reliance on the 'tried and trusted' when they could perhaps find a better balance - rely a bit less on the established stuff and take a few more risks here-and-there.

Nintendo are still pretty good at doing that - they managed to establish a new top-tier IP in Splatoon by taking a bit of a creative risk - I'd just like to see a bit more of that across the industry as a whole...we have too many re-hashes and remakes when, with the resources available at these huge power-house publishers, they could perhaps try a few different things and see if something sticks. I do love seeing a genre of game taken to another level, like we've seen in Overwatch and Breath of the Wild - but it's the 'out of the box' stuff that really excites, and I think we could perhaps see a bit more of that from the bigger players in the industry.

@JaxonH I never said that I was in any way 'dissatisfied' with the year in gaming - I actually said the exact opposite - I just feel that, if I'm being hyper-critical, there was one area where 2017 probably came up a little short and that was on the 'creative' side of things. If we have another year where we get some shiny new consoles and highly polished games - but with a few more top draw titles that really stand out as something fresh and exciting - it'll surpass 2017.

I do not think games are art, but what you put in a game can be artistic (Systems, Art, Story, Music). So while PAC-MAN is a fantastic game, it's not really art. Same with BoTW, which is filled to the brim with art, but you can't say that the actual "play" of BoTW is art.

I can make an awesome game of D&D, write music, plan a story, and draw/mold my own figures, but actually playing D&D is just a game.

With that, built on the axiom that art is a creative expression of the human condition, there is no limit to what we can create. There's an infinite potential to remix the 7 stories and how we tell them.

Creativity is linked to the human soul, and therefore can't be boxed. Think for instance, Splatoon. There's been many 3rd person shooters, but none with the idea of using shooting to increase movement. It's all about a cycle of shooting -> movement. That's all shooters, but only Splatoon organically blended them.

There had been platformers before Mario, there had been adventures before Zelda. There's not going to be a shortage any time soon, but it'll take people less interested in selling a product and more willing to experiment, which is impossible for a company to do all the time.

@NaviAndMii

If we have another year where we get some shiny new consoles and highly polished games - but with a few more titles that really stand out as something different - it'll surpass 2017

Oh I certainly don't think so. Too many truly excellent games this year. I don't see any year matching this one for some time.

Dark Blue colored Joy Cons got leaked by accident in the new Nintendo Minute video, you can see them in the left corner by all the other joy cons at 5:19.

You’re able to tell too that these definetly aren’t the double neon blue pack since the neon blue/neon red pack is also in the shot, and while the dark blue joy cons are visible and the lighting changes they stay the same dark blue.

@JaxonH Let me put it this way: if you have a year when you get to go on holiday to (for example) Japan, Brazil, New Zealand, Norway and Egypt - chances are that year is going to feel pretty damn special! ..but if you have a year when you get to go to the Moon, it's really going to stand out!

I don't think that anyone would deny that 2017 has given us many exceptional experiences - considerably above average, that's for sure! ..but, for some, they may not feel that a game 'took them to the Moon' this year - and I can kind of understand that perspective, that's all

Well, this discussion has moved pretty far afield from what I was actually saying. @JaxonH, you seem unwilling to actually acknowledge what I've said and instead keep drawling this line of "creative doesn't equal good," which I've said I agreed with you, so I don't know what's going on there.

@NaviAndMii
Yes - good points! I have to say, in terms of creativity, the Switch is obviously the high point of the year and does give me hope. Let's face it: Sony or Microsoft weren't going to come out with something like this if Nintendo wasn't still in the race. They would've just continued their power war until the end of days. Nintendo really changed the ecosystem with the Switch, and for that I'm grateful.

@skywake
Now, skywake, you're a different issue. You've opened a whole world of possibilities with me lol. I'm a literature teacher currently writing my thesis for my master's in literature (focus on mythemes present through structural and psychoanalytic criticism), and you're not wrong that lots of people think there are basic structures in our arts and stories. Though your categories are relatively distant/slightly changed from the academic descriptors, you're not too far off base in showing some of the general genres stories have slotted into over the years.

But not every scholar or artist out there believes this is it. Far from it. There's a big trend in the last decade, actually, of literary critics "flipping the script" (ha) and viewing things in different lights and suggesting that there is much out there for us to still discover. Moreso many critics now believe that stories don't slot neatly into one "genre" or another, but instead blend many to create something unique, exactly what I'm saying needs to happen more with video gaming.

But this is not the place to discuss that sort of stuff lol - this is where I come to relax and see what you guys (many of whom I respect greatly) think about the current video game news.

Anyway, whole new video game genres do emerge. Just look at MMOs. When I was growing up, MMOs weren't a thing. You had a few MUDs in the mid 90s (around SNES time), but until stuff like EQ and Ultima (1997-99) started development, the genre didn't exist. That's an entire genre. I'm just talking about games.And as much as I'm hesitant to jump on board, I think virtual reality may lead to some interesting discoveries.

@rallydefault MMOs have always been a thing since the internet became mainstream. They were text-based back in the day, but the genre itself isn't new, at least not newer than other genres. And I would say it's hardly a genre, more a way of delivering the game. You can turn any genre into an MMO.

@rallydefault
What I'm unwilling to accept is that it wasn't an absolutely incredible year for games. No more, no less.

Think I said several times above I didn't necessarily disagree about it not being the most creative (not that I agree or disagree, I just don't care enough to challenge the notion so I'll let you have that). But what does that matter if even you admit it doesn't mean games aren't good.

It was an amazing year for games, and all I'm hearing all around is "no it wasn't"

'Amazing year for games' is a relative expression. If this year wasn't the best year, which years beat it? If no years beat it, then saying it's been an amazing year isn't much of a stretch.

@StuTwo If you're gonna use spoiler tags, it helps if there's a general indication of what the spoiler's about, otherwise nobody's got any idea whether it's safe for them or not.

@Anti-Matter - after your recommendation for Yonder, I tweeted the devs to ask about a Switch port:

Yonder port confirmed!

FIFA (PS3) outsold the Switch version. The numbers on Switch aren't amazing.

@Octane Well, I am sure they can evaluate how they can do better next time. They seem to have a lot of evaluating to do...about a great many things...

@Octane
Did it really? Do we have numbers confirming that?

Not that I doubt it. There's an established player base just like people still buy Just Dance on Wii. But Switch version must have at least outsold 360 then, right? As long as it out sold one of the versions there is merit to making another one. Because they're going to keep making them for PS3/360 consoles. If Switch brings in more scratch than either of them, there's no reason to not make another.

@Octane It's not that suprising though is it? Is the new console with a smaller install base going to sell more than the older console that already has a lot of FIFA fans? No it's not unsuprisingly.

FIFA is one of those series that has a big audience of younger fans. I'd say it's similar to Just Dance where lots of parents will just pick up the newest version for their kid and not really consider a console upgrade. Most people's parents aren't the most knowledgeable when it comes to new consoles and stuff like that, I've even had a member of my family ask me if they plugged a PS3 into another PS3 if it would become a PS6! ....but that was an extreme example from my weird family, most people know a little more than that!

But anyway, the PS3 version will outsell the Switch version until the Nintendo sells more Switches or they stop supporting the PS3 with new installments. There will be a point when the PS3 can't keep up and it will be left behind.

@JaxonH No official numbers, they're from VGChartz. 175,773 for the PS3 version, and 107,788 for the Switch. Even with a small error margin, the difference is significant. Xbox is definitely a lot less popular over here, and Europe accounts for most of the FIFA sales, so that makes sense (360 numbers are 69,115 by the way). But those versions aren't portable though.

On the other hand, I also think that most of the FIFA player-base are casual gamers, and they probably don't own a Switch at this point (yet).

@Kimyonaakuma User base =/= active user base. There's a reason why the PS4 version outsold the PS3 version 25:1, despite the fact that more people own a PS3 than a PS4.

@gcunit
Wait, What ?!
They said that ?!
Yonder for Switch ??

@Octane
I guess that's not horrible. Granted I'm going to assume digital was counted for PS3 and 360 but not Switch, since the sales numbers that's based off of always exclude digital on Switch but not for other platforms.

For a platform notorious for having no interest in sports games, and a very small userbase, it seems like an ok start. It'll only grow with time, and as more of the casual players buy a Switch those sales will increase.

I think NBA 2K18 did better than FIFA, but I could be wrong. Seemed to chart higher on eshop and TakeTwo said they were good with the sales so...

But this holiday should bump the sales on both those games. Nintendo fans put a much higher value on games over time. Whereas other gamers buy right at launch and that's where most sales come from. Games on Nintendo have much longer sales curves. I wouldn't be surprised if FIFA 18 hit 200k over time, plus digital, so who knows it may end up doing a quarter million.

@Octane A large amount of people that bought a PS3 will have upgraded to a PS4, so it's not surprising that it's sold more. There's still a reasonably sized market for people that are still a console generation behind, so the PS3 is going to have a lot of games that will remain active for a while, and FIFA just takes advantage of that by still releasing new versions.
Besides the Switch is new, hasn't had time to get a huge userbase and Nintendo hasn't had a FIFA game for a few years. It didn't stand a chance. I think next year's version has a better chance of the Switch keeps it's momentum.

@Octane @JaxonH Probably worth pointing out that FIFA released on PS2 up through FIFA 14. That series has a large following in poorer countries, particularly those in Latin/South America, and that audience is why it continued to launch on PS2 for so long. PS3 I assume is the replacement for that.