My point is simple - in terms of its game structure and level design 3d World is essentially Mario Galaxy 3. The significant differences are concessions to the camera angle and level design to fit 4 characters on screen at once, a difference in thematic dress and a few changes to the moveset (that are reflected in the level design). Nintendo failed to effectively communicate that - leading to confusion as to whether it was a HD port of 3d Land, a '3d version of the NSMB games' or even just a HD version of Mario World or Mario 3.
If they'd tagged it "Mario Galaxy 3 + Multiplayer" and changed a few cut scenes to features stars instead of sprixies it would have been much better received. Nintendo communicated what they had badly.
What? Virtually no one had those complaints, the complaints were that it looked rehashy and unexciting and they expected a sandbox game. If they'd have branded it as Galaxy 3 the complaints might have gotten quieter but they still would've been there. People would've gotten bored of Galaxy if it didn't do anything new from the first game and still want a proper sandbox. In fact, not only would they not be fooled by that but that might break through the charade and sour people's opinions of the series.
I don't think that Sunshine was as much of a sandbox game as you seem to think either. You were - in almost all cases - locked into chasing a specific shine when you entered a level and you couldn't get the 6th shine in a level until you'd collected the 1st 5. A fair proportion of those shines were very linear (most obviously the 'abstract world' levels without FLUDD but many others too). The levels were huge and gave a feeling of exploration but they were artificially fenced off.
Valid point, but it still offered a sense of exploration that Galaxy, 3D Land, and 3D World did not. The levels were much more suited to wandering around and doing what you want as opposed to the latter which basically forced you forward.
To me the Galaxy games and 3d World were a refinement of that concept that simply removed more of the bloated vestigial remains of free roaming. Structurally I don't think they're that much different.
Except the sandbox audience WANTS free roam, so that's removing a crucial element that people enjoy about the game.
Regardless however, I don't think it's fair to assume that linear platformers are devoid of "exploration" or creativity - it's simply exploration and creativity that's expressed slightly differently ]Aside from the Galaxy games and 3d World the Yoshi's Island and Yoshi's Woolly World are linear platformers that are far more densely packed full of secrets than any open ended 3d platformer.
The problem with relying on secrets is that they don't necessarily require wandering, they can be on the beaten path and that's a very limited form of exploration. Exploration is most effective with nonlinear level design, it inherently requires a sense of choice and linear level design doesn't really give you much choice.
@StuTwo I think your right about the sales and the attention. What i wrote was just a selfish customer wish.
Because i dont care for nintendos financial succes if i dont profit from it. Im not the sacrificial kind of fan.
Jhena
Switch Friend Code: SW-2361-9475-8611 | Nintendo Network ID: Traumwanderer
Lets be honest with ourselves here. If Mario Kart 8 had never got DLC and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe was sold as Mario Kart 9 basically as is but with these tracks instead of what we actually got:
Mushroom: Wild Woods, Animal Crossing, New track, New track
Flower: Ice Ice Outpost. Hyrule Circuit, New track, New track
Star: Excitebike Arena. Dragon Driftway, Mute City, New track
Special: Super Bell Subway, Big Blue, New track, New track
Shell: WiiU Mario Kart Stadium, GCN Yoshi Circuit, Wii U Thwomp Ruins, GBA Cheese Land
Banana: Wii U Mario Circuit, Wii Wario's Gold Mine, SNES Rainbow Road, Wii U Twisted Mansion
Leaf: GCN Baby Park, Wii U Mount Wario, GBA Ribbon Road, Wii U Electrodome
Lightning: Wii U Cloudtop Cruise, 3DS Neo Bowser City, Wii U Bowser's Castle, N64 Rainbow Road
I think we would have said "yes, this is Mario Kart 9" without even thinking about it.
I don't think GCN Yoshi Circuit, GCN Baby Park, SNES Rainbow Road and N64 Rainbow Road would've been in Mario Kart 9 due to the "no retro repeats for new games" rule. I think things would be more like this for the retro cups.
Shell: DS Figure-8 Circuit, Wii U Water Park, 3DS Daisy Hills, SNES Choco Island 1
Banana: Wii U Toad Harbor, Wii Wario's Gold Mine, GBA Cheese Land, N64 Wario Stadium
Leaf: Wii DK Summit, GBA Ribbon Road, 3DS Wario Shipyard, GCN Mushroom City
Lightning: 3DS Neo Bowser City, GCN Wario Colosseum, Wii U Bowser's Castle, GBA Rainbow Road
Where all the tracks in bold except GBA Rainbow Road could be potential candidates for MK8 Deluxe DLC.
@Grumblevolcano
Except if the Mario Kart 8 DLC had not come out most of those courses wouldn't have existed in Mario Kart 8. Also SNES Rainbow Road appeared in both 7 & 8 so I'm not sure there is a "no repeats" rule. Either way I wasn't really trying to make a full list. I was just pointing out how much content the DLC packs had in them.
Between DLC packs 1 & 2 and the expectation that some of the previous version's tracks come back as tracks in retro cups? We're about a DLC pack worth of content short of what would have usually been called Mario Kart 9. Which is why even as a fan of Mario Kart I wouldn't at all be fussed if we never got a "Mario Kart 9". We already got 2/3rds of it, it was the DLC.
Honestly yes, the Wii U had some fantastic games that many missed out on, Bayonetta 2 for example BUT i don't think it should be limited to Wii U games and it should include Wii and even Gamecube games too
imagine Wind Waker on the go or Super Mario Galaxy
"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"
"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!
I never really got into Mario Kart big time until MK Wii.I preferred Diddy Kong Racing on 64 and Double Dash i actually returned after a few days.MK Wii online though had me hooked so I have nostalgia for a few of it's tracks.2 of my favourites were Coconut Mall and Peach Gardens (which I'm sure was a retro track?).I'd love to see those added to MK8D.I'd be happy if they just gave us 8 retro tracks and 4 new Battle arena's as DLC.Save any new tracks for an eventual sequel.
@skywake I'm talking about the "no repeats" rule regarding retro tracks across the franchise, the Mario Kart 8 DLC is the only time there have been repeats. GCN Yoshi Circuit and GCN Baby Park were retro tracks in Mario Kart DS and SNES Rainbow Road was a retro track in Mario Kart 7. These repeats were likely chosen (especially the 2 GCN courses) so more unused retro tracks could be used in new Mario Kart games meanwhile DLC can get repeats. Double Dash only has these unused courses left:
Mushroom City
Wario Colosseum
Bowser Castle
Rainbow Road
Of course this "no repeats" rule will end at some point for new Mario Kart games (probably 10 onwards) as the only unused MK64 track is Wario Stadium.
I don't think SNES Rainbow Road should have been repeated; it should have been GBA Rainbow Road instead but with the same graphics. However, seeing how dated Mario Kart DS is, I don't mind seeing repeats of retro courses which appeared in MKDS.
Would anyone like Diddy Kong Racing or F-Zero X courses as the N64 courses once they've done Wario Stadium?
@Bass_X0 I think it should've been an unused SNES track instead of Rainbow Road, currently 9/20 SNES tracks have been used for retro. Something like Ghost Valley 3 or one of the Vanilla Lake courses would've worked nicely.
What? Virtually no one had those complaints, the complaints were that it looked rehashy and unexciting and they expected a sandbox game.
In my experience there are there are a lot of people out there who didn't realise it was its own thing. Comments like "oh wasn't that just Mario World in 3d" aren't uncommon.
In a world where Nintendo had to issue a chart explaining that Wii U was a separate console not just a Wii accessory giving a flagship game a name that's literally a mash up of the names of previous games in the series was a recipe for confusion.
[quote]
Except the sandbox audience WANTS free roam, so that's removing a crucial element that people enjoy about the game.[quote]
If we get a Mario Odyssey game that's as much of a sandbox as BotW where you can instantly go and fight Bowser if you're good enough I'd absolutely love that. On the other hand if they're giving us a game that's "sandbox" in the way that Sunshine is then I'd say it's not worth it - in that case I'd rather play something that strips away the conceit that it's "open" and just cut to the chase.
The problem with relying on secrets is that they don't necessarily require wandering, they can be on the beaten path and that's a very limited form of exploration. Exploration is most effective with nonlinear level design, it inherently requires a sense of choice and linear level design doesn't really give you much choice.
I don't agree - they offer a different experience of exploration and discovery but not necessarily a worse one.
I can see some collections (Mario 1-3, classic Zelda's) and possibly some re-releases of Wii U classics, but other than that, stick with newer titles. Someone said it on page 1, if you didn't own the system before, you missed out. It's true, but with Sony and Microsoft re-releasing games that were already out on the previous system...mostly the games that were masterpieces...this could be done for the Switch too, but they shouldn't do it without showcasing NEWER games first. I can see them doing a few re-releases of Wii U titles...Pikmin 3, Hyrule Warriors, Mario Maker, Mario 3D World, Smash and possibly Captain Toad...but they should be 'filled in' for the drought periods that could come. During the drought periods though, it's also critical that nintendo gives their 3rd parties a shot at sales too, or else we'll run into more Wii U problems with releases (or even worse...the 3DS is having mad droughts right now with 3rd parties, as most of them seemed to have left the scene). In other words, it's nice to have some to fill in the droughts, but they shouldn't do it for all of the games, granted many people never heard of the Wii U.
I think it should've been an unused SNES track instead of Rainbow Road, currently 9/20 SNES tracks have been used for retro. Something like Ghost Valley 3 or one of the Vanilla Lake courses would've worked nicely.
As a huge fan of Super Mario Kart I don't at all mind them doing SNES Rainbow Road again. Of course I would like to see more SNES tracks redone but if they're going to bring one back more than once? Make it Rainbow Road. It also helps that they redid Donut Plains 3 which is another fantastic track. They are going to have to repeat some tracks eventually and, lets be honest, the SNES tracks are all fairly similar. Repeats don't bother me.
With that said I'd love to see Vanilla Lake 1 and Koopa Beach 1 remade. Outside of Rainbow Road they were the least repeated track themes in the game. And when you hadn't unlocked Special Cup yet they were the only unique track themes. So they were pretty special.
I would not mind some more ports of Wii U titles to Switch. The Wii U was a commercial failure that had some good games on it that would see a wider audience on the Switch. SSB is pretty much a given already, and I'm surprised it hasn't already been announced.
However, I also think they should pace themselves with releasing ports. Maybe release a couple more choice titles after a few original ones.
Look ports, deluxe, and directors cuts are par for the norm (now) in the early life of consoles. PS4 has gotten a ridiculous amount of ports/directors cuts......I mean year one you had TLOF, GTA5, Wolfenstein games, TombRaider2013, then you had the reboot of the original R&C as well as the re-release of Drake1-3 right before Drake4, then the Skyrim redo and there are many others still coming.
I will say this, great games are great games and they sometimes deserve to be re-mastered or re-released. I actually replayed TombRaider2013 because it was GOTY worthy IMO back on PS3 and I wanted to give it another go, same with Drake1-2 and TLOF. So avid gamers do replay great games. Additionally there are games that slip thru the cracks like DeusEX on WiiU. Never got to it on ps360 but loved it on WiiU and now am playing the next one on PS4.
So I say just keep bringing us great content. If they are not going to do a new FZero then why not take the excellent GC game, update it to HD (already ran at 60fps), ad an online racing component and it would sell like mad. Or just release it on damned VC.
Look you can already tell Switch is not going to be WiiU. Nintendo's own 'conservative' forecast is saying 13mil units by next spring. That means in 1 year it will surpass WiiU sales. Developing on it is way easier according to all sources......so I think we are going to see a lot of ports, 3rd party, indies, compilations, VC and Nintendo's own great franchises. I fully expect Xmas2017 Switch will dominate and outsell PS4.
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Topic: Should Nintendo release more 'Deluxe' games on Switch?
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