Topic: The Nintendo Switch Rumor and Speculation Thread

A major flaw that's starting to become very apparent with Pokemon Presents focusing so much on the mobile games aspect of the franchise is that, since these games are usually very disconnected from regular Pokemon announcements, the stuff they would show off in something like a Presents usually gets announced ahead of time simply due to that being the way those games show off news, resulting in a ton of potential surprises getting spoiled and making the overall experience quite dull :/

@skywake I know what you mean. If the majority of games were ports I wouldn't be keen either, but if they are aiming for 10 - 12 releases per year and 2 were some form of port, I would be happy with that.

After Metroid Prime Remastered, my hope is every port would get the same treatment, which may not be realistic, but if they want to show off the capabilities of the new hardware we will hopefully get some.

I think a Pikmin style port could be released on both platforms, but a Metroid Prime style remaster but going up to 4K DLSS will surely be exclusive to the Switch 2.

@Fizza
Wait, the leaks before Pokemon Present ??

@Anti-Matter Nah, these are basically just announcements that'll be elaborated on in today's presentation. Don't really know why they didn't just save them for the Presents itself but it is what it is I guess.

@MarioBrickLayer
To be blunt, 4K, higher framerates and to a degree DLSS are poor reasons to make content "Switch 2 exclusive". That should just be baked into backwards compatibility. These are things that new hardware gives us "for free" so they shouldn't really be charging for them. If this is all moving from Switch to "Switch 2" will bring then, really, they should just make it on Switch

If however they're going to actually take advantage of the new hardware with these ports. Significantly re-do assets, change the way things are rendered and so on. Like they did with Metroid Prime Remastered. Then sure, I could see the value in making it only available on "Switch 2". I just don't really see reason to do that with most of the games you listed from the GC/Wii era. Most of them would probably do relatively fine being exactly as they originally were just rendered at a higher fidelity and with minor texture/ui/control updates

@skywake my understanding is that you don't get DLSS for free, you have to rework the game.

I think we're almost saying the same thing, but you allude to an interesting point, how will Nintendo consider the return on investment? A Pikmin style port will obviously be cheaper than a Metroid Prime Remaster, but if they are looking for games with quick (ish) turn around times that show off the capabilities of the new hardware then giving the same treatment to some of the titles I mentioned would be a way to do it.

I imagine Nintendo will remaster many of the games I mentioned for the Switch 2 or 3 or 4, I wonder how many we'll get in the next few years?

@MarioBrickLayer
It depends on how backwards compatibility is implemented but if it's via a patch that updates the graphical driver binary then DLSS could be done pretty cheaply. If backwards compatibility is less involved it might not be but even then you could still have a patch that only applies to the "Switch 2". DLSS doesn't require specific training for the game anymore, it's generic

With (most of) the GameCube ports? These games are emulated anyways, or at least partially emulated. They take the original game assets and maybe improve the textures here or there. They recompile the game logic so it can run on ARM. Then they run the visuals through a proprietary emulator. Add DLSS to the emulator? Boom, DLSS. Tell it to run at 4K? There you go, 4K

........ I would add that the discussion of DLSS in this context is probably completely irrelevant anyways. It's not like the Switch struggles to run these games at full 1080p at all. If we throw 3-4X the horsepower at the you could probably run these games at 4K native without much issue.

Here's the main thing I think we're missing here but and where I think we disagree. The Pikmin releases look great but do fall short. They could easily pump more GC titles out with that amount of effort and it'd be super efficient. But 4K native is not going to show off the new hardware because the Pikmin releases don't show off the current Switch. Why? Because resolution isn't what makes those titles look dated. It's asset resolution

I am all for Nintendo dropping more GC/Wii era releases like this. I want it to become so regular that it happens about as often as we get new N64 titles on NSO. Hell, if they could give us some as rewards that'd be even better! But I don't see how "Switch 2" is really part of that equation, new hardware doesn't really give any benefit unless there's a full rework. If there is backwards compatibility these should be available on Switch

@skywake
Personally, I don't think any game that is on NSO will get a remake, so when I see suggestions for a Ocarina of Time remaster etc I just can't see it happening. I hope you're right about the frequency, but I think it those ports will mainly come from the Gamecube and Wii with some 3DS titles thrown in.

I agree with what you're saying here, 4K will make no difference to a Pikmin style release. Maybe where we disagree is that I (optimistically?!) think Nintendo will do more Metroid Prime Remaster style releases to take advantage of the new hardware. If it was me, I would make WIndWaker or Twilight Princess a launch title with a full on graphical overhaul, make it look like a new game, pushing the hardware as far as they can.

So I think we'll see a number of Metroid Prime style remasters, which I think will be exclusive to Switch 2, but I also agree that a Pikmin style port could be released on both.

@MarioBrickLayer
Fair call, I think on the technical stuff we are in agreement it's just maybe we're taking different guesses about how Nintendo approaches it. Kinda an open question really. I personally would like to see them open up the floodgates and start pushing out GC and Wii titles. They already have an emulator for this purpose so it would be a relatively easy technical win

But..... Nintendo being tight with their library is how they maintain value. The more of them they release the less "special" they become. I would wish for Nintendo to open up GameCube through NSO. Maybe as a kind of temporary claim you can redeem like you see with other services. But if they were to do that people won't want to pay almost retail prices for them

I kinda feel like these two ideas are kinda in conflict. Either they do proper remasters like they've done with Metroid Prime and make them proper premium releases at almost full retail or they open the floodgates and give us everything from Excite Trucks to 1080 and either charge like $15AU each or just hand them out via NSO

Ultimately I think you're probably right

@skywake NSO vs stand alone releases is an interesting question, I see a few things for Nintendo to consider:-

1. Could they introduce a new tier for Gamecube (+ DS?) how much could they charge and how many people would sign up?
2. Would they make more money doing standalone releases?
3. What are the technical costs of putting it on NSO vs a stand alone release?
4. Does having these games available to help fill out the calendar outweigh the benefits of more NSO content?
5. Could the Switch technically support Gamecube on NSO or would it be exclusive to Switch 2?

Like every business, the decision will come down to which route will make them the most money. I just don't know if there is enough interest in Gamecube games to generate enough revenue to outperform standalone releases, despite it being one of my favourite consoles and one I have a lot of nostalgia for.

I know it happened with the remakes/ports coming to Switch before they were on NSO, but we have Link's Awakening remake, we have Mario 64 port (sort of), we have ports of most of the sega games. I don't think Nintendo will go out of their way to remake a bunch of NSO games, but I also doubt they will necessarily avoid it. Like with Link's Awakening the remake would cost a lot more money than 'free' with NSO and it would also be a somewhat different experience. The fact that they chose to put an un-remake on NSO makes me think they would also do the opposite.

@FishyS Nintendo will be considering the return on investment, risk and opportunity cost when deciding what games to make (or remake) if they think a game already being on NSO is going to reduce sales then I don't think they will green light it.

Doing a remake of Ocarina of Time may mean that new IP doesn't happen or it delays Splatoon 4 by 18 months (just hypothetical examples) and if Ocarina of Time sells 4m copies rather than 8m copies because it's on NSO then what would you do?

If they come with new cart factor. I hope they are like the USB2.0 to USB3.1 memory stick as you can insert a USB2 into a USB3 slot and still work but when you insert a USB3 into a USB3 port you get faster access and speed. This would be all they need to do and that would make it BC while the new carts would only fit the neXtGen system going forward. And still keep the cart slot but having both form factor still in use considering there are over 130mil and growing base Nintendo Gamers.

@SwitchForce It would be good if you're right. The most important thing for the cartridges is that they are cheap enough for 3rd parties to put very large file sizes on the cartridge.

The thing I think would be great for cartridges but is probably not possible (although maybe with some sort of partitioning) would be to be able to download patches directed onto the cart, so you always had a complete on cart copy of a game.

What 3rd party support is everyone expecting?

If you watch one of the recent Spawnwave videos, Rockstar seem to be saying to investors that GTA6 will launch in FY25 (April 2024 - March 2025) which is the same launch window for Switch 2...that would be an amazing launch title!!

I'm expecting:-
1.FC25 (new FIFA game from EA) but not a legacy edition
2. Madden
3. NHL
4. CoD
5. New FIFA

I think some of the major studios won't want to get caught out again if the Switch 2 goes big.

@MarioBrickLayer I’m not expecting under any circumstances for GTA 6 to be released on the Switch successor. I see this being designed entirely with PS5/Xbox Series S/X consoles in mind. So if there aren’t plans for last generation console versions of the game, I doubt Nintendo will be in with any chance of getting it either.
Regarding EA Sports games, I think that will again depend on what releases come to the PS4/Xbox One. Are they going to receive legacy versions? Because if so then it makes sense the Nintendo console will too. COD is a given considering the contract Microsoft signed with Nintendo. It’s just a matter of how those games pan out.

In terms of third party games coming to Switch 2; Final Fantasy 14 is finally coming to XBOX in 2024, so it's plausible it could come to Switch 2 as well.

USB3 didn't cost too much when they came out compared to the USB2.0 costed when first released prices they did go down to affordable prices. Hopefully they can do this but now it's wait to see.

That might drive up the price or limited amount of patches can be downloaded - might raise the cart prices and they be something like a EEPROM chipset if prices are in range would be great and no more wasted sd storage except for Digital downloaded game.

@SwitchForce
Technically Nintendo has used more-or-less the same pinout for their cartridges for a long while. The DS, 3DS and Switch all have 17 pins with some being power, clock, mode select, cartridge detect and so on and then 8 pins for data. As far as the console itself is concerned the only real differences are the clock speed and the available modes. Because the bus is 8 bits wide (or a byte) the speed in theory is just the clock

DS: 4.2Mhz -> 4.2MB/s -> 33.6Mbps
3DS: 16.6Mhz -> 16.6MB/s -> 132Mbps
Switch: 25Mhz -> 25MB/s -> 200Mbps

edit: I was curious so had a look to see if I could find the specs of the GBA & GB(C) cartridges. Couldn't find it easily. However I would note that they also had an 8 pin data bus and would've likely used a similar method. My best guess is it would've been something like 1/10th of the DS

The Switch matches the "High Speed" SD card spec, basically the same speed as an off the shelf SD card. Though I would note that SD cards do have higher speed modes beyond the base. I believe some SD cards can be run at upto 200Mhz. Some also add additional pins, like USB 3 as you suggested, to widen the bus. Either or both of these are options. The best option would probably be to just increase the clock,

@MarioBrickLayer
I don't see much reason for putting writable space on the cart. The simpler the design the better. You have a system that's already going to have potentially 100s of GB of free space. Storage that will be faster, more reliable and always connected. Just use that

@MarioBrickLayer

Using read/write memory would shorten the expected lifespan of the cartridge though.

The current Switch cartridges have an expected lifespan of 20 years because they're read only.