Topic: NVIDIA leak may hint at new Switch / Nintendo system

@Grumblevolcano Don't Gen5 and Gen7 match the launch on DSi and New 3DS as well?

@Magician
I think you pretty much proved the point @BrazillianCara was making. There's a bit tooo much push back against any discussions of leaks or even speculation on what Nintendo could be doing. Exibit A, your post which pretty much just outright dismissing anything that may come up before any kind of announcement up into late 2024 or later.

So lets step back for a moment and look at the facts here. There was a cyber attack on Nvidia last week, it's widely reported. Nvidia has issued a statement and even discussed how some of the information has been leaked online. This is undisputable fact. Additionally we know for a fact that Nvidia's driver for the Switch is called NVN (Nvidia Nintendo). Again, undisputed.

So when some of the leaked files from that Nvidia attack are under a folder in their repository for NVN2 and specifically mention DLSS? I mean, our ears should prick up shouldn't they? Especially when it finds its way into tech news sources first and barely registers in gaming media. You'd expect someone trying to gain clicks for a Switch Pro leak would push their story to more gaming friendly places

Even moreso, there's apparently some mention of T239 which is the as of yet vaguely defined Ampere based Tegra SoC. One of only two Tegra SoCs we have a high resolution die shot of, the other being the X1 which is in the Switch. The second major Tegra revision to include Tensor cores and therefore to support DLSS. And a generation of SoC which is available this year as it happens, remembering the T210 in the Switch was first available in mid 2015

I mean we can pretend that there is no Switch revision ever coming or that we have no idea what's coming. And that might end up being right because it is entirely possible for things to fall apart. Just as Nintendo about their Nintendo Playstation. But ..... you can't be that blind to not see this. Can you?

At this point the bulk of these leaks from all sides have all been pointing to one and only one thing. A new piece of Nintendo hardware using a revised Tegra SoC which supports DLSS, one that's based on the Ampere microarchitecture. An SoC which is/will be available this year but was in production to some degree last year. So if you were betting on what Nintendo would do? The short odds would be on a Switch 2/Pro either this year or next which supports 4K and HDR but has a spec similar to an underpowered PS4. A spec which in practice it will push a bit harder with the inclusion of DLSS

2024 or later? .... much longer odds on that I'd think

@skywake I mean, at least you used paragraphs. Most folks who post walls of text can't be bothered. Nice post though, honestly. However, I simply don't agree. I think the chances of Nintendo releasing a new iteration of Switch (that isn't an OLED Switch Lite) sooner than 2024 is unlikely.

The current iterations of Switch are still selling too well, global chip shortages persist, the Switch will be the first Nintendo platform to reach 1B pieces of software sold. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

@skywake I totally agree with you, there's definitely a strong band of speculation and rumour discussion haters on this site. Whenever there's a news article covering these issues most of the early comments are anti NL even publishing the story. As you suggest, there's a lot more stories out there that they don't cover, and most of the site readers seem to be unaware that NL only really cover these stories after they've broken big elsewhere.

I saw what happened to Slowdive earlier last year. It's why I tend to keep most of my hardware discussion posts to the Nintendo Switch Rumor and Speculation thread.

@Magician
What specifically about what I have outlined here do you think is inaccurate or jumping to conclusions? You think the leaks from NVidia post hack including folders labelled NVN2 don't suggest a revision to the NVN API? Or maybe you think that didn't happen? Or that specifically driver source files labelled DLSS don't suggest NVN drivers for a new Tegra SoC that has Tensor cores?

Because frankly,I don't know what more could come out at this point short of Nintendo specifically revealing it. Really, this NVidia stuff on it's own? I won't verify because, well, IP theft... but if accurate?.... either Switch 2 or Pro, whatever you want to call it, is pretty close. And if it's T239? Late next year at the latest. And probably could have been as early as mid-last year if they had got supply

And it just so happens this is what the WSJ reported. And others have reported. Like consistently since mid last year. And you still think it's all made up?

I mean I'm sorry but, that's just how it is. I don't know how you can honestly still pretend this is all just dudes on 4chan making stuff up

Couldn't be more wrong..read the story again it's LEAKS from Nvidia - how much closer do they need to be that there is a Switch 2 coming. Love how people mistake Leaks of Developments vs. Rumors/speculations. Those two are so far apart makes one wonder if Koolaid isn't getting warm to drink here.

@skywake

Nothing.

Your argument was succinct and grounded.

However, you can present the facts to the best of your ability, it still won't change my perspective.

Much like the Capcomhack, this is much more than rumour, unfortunately. Does anyone have any clue as to how powerful this thing is (I mean from what I've seen, I still know next to nothing hahaha!) I have seen mention of it being PS4 Pro / Series S level of performance (achieve through some cleverness rather than brute force)

@GrailUK You could default to the specs for Orin. But chances are Nvidia and Nintendo will be going for a custom, pared down variant of Orin. Probably with performance on par with or slightly above the Xavier SoC. Regardless of the potential specs of the Switch successor, portability is king in Japan, so Nintendo will want a minimum playtime of 2 hours on a full charge regardless of what game you're playing.

Unlike the Steam Deck. Where if you have brightness set to max, wi-fi on, rumble on, performance maxed out, playing the latest and greatest AAA games....you'd be lucky to get one hour of playtime on a full charge.
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-announces-agx-orin-jetson-agx-ori...

About a year ago Doctre81 uploaded...

@Magician Cheers Magi!

@Magician @GrailUK
With noting that full spec Orin wipes the floor with PS4. As in something like 10x the raw spec of the Switch. So a significantly paired back SoC would still be significant.

The PS4 comparisons? They're useful but admittedly dubious. We're talking about different architectures, different APIs and entirely different feature sets. And even when this thing is out the titles that truly push Switch won't exist on PS4 and visa versa

With that said, approximately a portable PS4 is a fairly wide window I think we can safely say it'll hit. Especially with DLSS in it's toolkit. But XBone X, PS5 is going to be a bridge way too far

@skywake It's super exciting if it manages to materialise. But it doesn't have to reach X or ps5 levels. The concept has already shown it doesn't need to be on par with peak performance. I knew NVidia would be going all in on the next console. Who wouldn't!

@skywake chip leaks are probably the least encapsulating element of Nintendo hardware. If all you new about NX was it’s logic internals, you’d have had no insight into why the system was appealing. Paired with the highly stylized visuals of first party games, it’s not what most people are thinking about when the games are eventually revealed. This leak is akin to seeing the piles of lumber that will eventually make a house. There’d be more consequential discussion if the schematic to the analogue stick was leaked, lol.

But if DLSS is what you’re all about, I guess there’s a whiff of gold in it for you.

@NinChocolate
Yeah, I don't buy what you're saying. In terms of hardware the SoC is the main event. Everything flows from it. It determines what range of performance is possible, what I/O it could support, expected power draw and so on

I mean sure, software is still king. I'm definitely of that view being a software developer myself so I am biased as hell to agree with you there. But hardware capabilities determine what software can do.

And things like the analogue stick and form? Frankly, who cares. That's boring as hell. Does it have controls and a screen yes or no? If yes, all that matters is the internal hardware and the software you run on it. And given this is a hardware speculation game right here? The SoC, only thing that really matters

New model electronic products is something very common every day. Technology will be always improved vastly everyday so better not get into rumour and do your daily activities normally.

@skywake SoC main event to Nintendo hardware? I’ll say all the Nintendo hardware reviews I’ve ever read have spared no more than a sentence on the SoC, and mostly to establish the co-manufacturer. So that’s quite the perspective.

The analogue stick. I agree, who cares—but if it could be determined if the design was less prone to drift than the current generation, you’d have more people buzzing about that leak than the leaked inevitability of the system having an SoC.

“Does it have controls and a screen yes or no? If yes, all that matters is the internal hardware and the software you run on it.”

A screen and buttons haven’t been the sole features of Nintendo hardware since the Game Boy. Not sure I understand your take here.

Here’s PC Mag’s pro/con rundown of the Switch, points they elaborate on in the review. As far as the SoC goes, knowledge of it could only partly tell you about just of the points (battery life). Arguably the design, the joy con versatility and the game library are much more interesting to the average person than the chip spec.

PROS

Attractive, innovative design
Excellent game library
Solid build quality
Joy-Cons feel comfortable to use in multiple configurations

CONS

Short battery life
Online service needs work
Flimsy kickstand

@NinChocolate
The SoC determines whether it can be backwards compatible, what power it will draw and therefore likely battery life, what I/O it has and therefore display modes and other connectivity. It also impacts the capabilities of the hardware which impacts the games that can be developed

Other than the detachable nature of the JoyCon I'd argue literally everything about the Switch could be inferred from the SoC it used. Even the dock. So while reviewers will skim over it at best and users will not care it is still the number 1 most critical component. Basically nothing else matters in terms of the hardware

@skywake We just have differing perspectives I suppose because everything the SoC can’t tell you is what I’m chiefly interested in. Does it fold, does something detach, is it pocket sized or the size of an iPad?

Obviously: It will play better looking games at a better resolution with some kind of connectivity with between 2-5 hours battery. Does anyone need leaks to know that? That’s all a boring thought unless the Switch is your very first games console. And it still won’t play PSBox games to spec. But maybe this will still be news to some people, or those looking for some fake outrage about another generation of Nintendo hardware.

And the biggest graphics leap in the strictly portable sense is now behind us — 3DS to Switch Lite. So nobody go on getting too excited, my advice.

@NinChocolate
I'll put it this way. If in late 2015 you had shown me evidence to suggest that Nintendo was working on hardware that would use the Tegra X1 SoC? I would've probably told you a pretty damn clear picture of what it would be. I mean for a start I would've pointed to this specific video and said "basically that but more power efficient/more capable... and with Nintendo having a better idea of what the form should be":

Which would've been a solid 90% of the way to what the Switch actually is. Basically a Wii U/360 spec device that is power efficient enough to be in a portable form factor. A device that has the capability to connect to a TV via a HDMI to Display Port adapter. Something that could displace the Wii U but also the 3DS in Nintendo's lineup. Given the advancements in flash by that point? Thing would definitely use cartridges if it was portable which, frankly, is the only sensible move. Lastly the X1 is so architecturally different to both the 3DS and Wii U that there'd be no backwards compatibility. Clean slate, ports excluded

The last 10% of what the Switch is? Detachable joycons? I mean sure they matter but would the experience be that much different if they were attached and it just had a Pro Controller? Not really. The specific way it connects to the Dock? yeah, nah. Software? I mean sure but you could probably have inferred a lot of that because it's Nintendo and also because of where they were in 2015. The Switch was destined to be a machine for Wii U ports, at the very least BotW was going to be cross-generation.

Same thing is true now. If it is an Orin based Tegra SoC we can infer a lot about what this hardware will be. I know you guys for some reason hate people talking about DLSS but DLSS is one of the bigger things. That combined with a tighter process will give it significantly better perceived performance per watt. Which means better visuals on the go and/or longer battery life for similar levels of fidelity. But also being Tegra based it means backwards compatibility with Switch is highly likely. And if that's the case I wouldn't be expecting significant experimenting with the form or controls because it'd still have to play Switch titles. So my advice, I wouldn't get too excited about foldable iPad sized detachable screens......

As for visuals, frankly to me this doesn't matter THAT much. I mean I'm one of the people who raved about Legends Arceus on here so you know what side of the equation I sit. But as it stands, it looks like it'll likely land at around a portable PS4-ish spec which is fine by me. I'm pretty happy with the Switch as it is but if we can get more games hitting their framerate and resolution targets? That's cool, that's a positive. Especially if it can do that with things like HDR or with a lower power draw

And in any case, it's a fun puzzle to solve this hardware speculation game. It's just a bit sad when the buzzkills come out and whine about the speculation ranting about "graphics don't matter" or whatever their weak non-contributing response to the discussion is. I don't care if for some reason you take that the idea of new hardware as some kind of personal attack on your preferred console hardware. That's not what I'm doing here, that's not what anyone who speculates about hardware is doing. If that's your take you miss the point, go post on some other thread