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Topic: Next Nintendo Direct?

Posts 9,841 to 9,860 of 10,127

skywake

@VoidofLight
Not really. I mean you're saying that smartphones and PCs are vastly different to consoles but that's not really accurate at all anymore. This isn't the 90s when every new console had an entirely different architecture, media or controller scheme (often all three!). In terms of hardware a Switch and an iPhone are fundamentally the same, same with a PS5/XBox Series and a PC. It's unlikely that they will change any of those things anytime soon either (PS4/PS5 are pretty similar, same with XBox Series v One). The difference is purely in how much these companies choose to artificially lock down their platform

Also I think you're deliberately missing the point of the theoretical Metroid Prime 4 example I made up. No matter what you say it is an undesputed fact of the console model that the cut-off between generations is pretty sharp. If whatever comes after the Switch 2 doesn't maintain forwards and backwards compatibility? Soon after its launch the current Switch will start missing out on a LOT of content. Even content that isn't particularly demanding

VoidofLight wrote:

I don't know about you, but I'd hate to have a switch, and then Nintendo decides to release a console that's the same as the switch, but can support 4K 60 fps, with games being built for that instead. While the game would run on the switch I have, it would end up being a even worse experience than the version that's made for the same console, yet more expensive. The upgrade model is just as terrible as the traditional model, if not moreso because of situations like these.

You've litterally killed your argument here. In this scenario you buy this game for the current Switch after the launch of its successor and are disappointed with its performance. But you have the option to choose to buy the upgraded model and continue your game on that. With a traditional console model you're either forced to upgrade for that game or, on the very rare occasion it's cross-gen, you are locked into your decision of console when you purchase the game

Edited on by skywake

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

VoidofLight

@skywake I don't think I killed my argument, given that in both scenarios, yeah you have to buy the game console and the game, but at least you don't have to worry about the game made exclusively for that console running like trash.. where as if you can't fork out the money for a switch pro, then you'll be stuck with an inferior product that barely resembles the experience that marketing promised, while the richer folk who can afford to get the barely upgraded console will be playing the game as intended.

(Insert creative or cool phrase here.)

skywake

@VoidofLight
There are plenty of games on Switch that already run like trash. If I was a budget gamer I'd take being able to run a game on the previous model at 720p/30 with some dynamic scaling over not getting the game at all. And if I wasn't happy with that I'd be happy that there was an option to get better hardware that does 1080p/60 with a larger draw distance, maybe some HDR, possibly some pseudo 1440p via DLSS.

There's no question here that the traditional console model is super weak in this aspect in partucular. I'm willing to concede in theory the vague notion of "innovative entirely new and unknown things not possible". Something that is happening less and less with every generation as we get to the point where performance is the only change per-generation. But in terms of largely static hardware where the only improvements are internal? The argument for not being more forwards compatible is non-existant

Edited on by skywake

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

kkslider5552000

New models of game systems, even now, from my perspective, are just reminders that waiting is good. I keep up with Nintendo games more than anything else, and this one has the least issues of getting cool non-Nintendo games since the GCN, so I don't regret my purchase. But now, in the past, maybe especially in the future, the first version is the worst version. Still a real shame the first version of 3DS didn't have the 3D abilities of the New 3DS, it fixes my biggest issue with 3DS' core gimmick.

I mostly just find this to be a non-discussion (which it already is, since I don't think its happening like companies say it is), since it implies yearly updates would lead to a notable amount of games making their games run differently on console, per updated console. And in a way that is fundamentally different from being the weaker console in a console generation with multi platform titles (let alone Ps4 Pro or the like). Both companies bothering and people noticing a difference, simultaneously? Eh, doubt it.

Edited on by kkslider5552000

Non-binary, demiguy, making LPs, still alive

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VoidofLight

@kkslider5552000 The thing I dread is the infinite wait, since it'll become a thing where you know the device you want is going to be outclassed sooner or later, so you then wait for years and years until you get the peak one, only for the peak one to never come out because it just keeps endlessly going.

(Insert creative or cool phrase here.)

skywake

kkslider5552000 wrote:

it implies yearly updates would lead to a notable amount of games making their games run differently on console, per updated console. And in a way that is fundamentally different from being the weaker console in a console generation with multi platform titles (let alone Ps4 Pro or the like). Both companies bothering and people noticing a difference, simultaneously? Eh, doubt it.

The yearly cycle of smartphones is an arbitrary thing Apple uses for their own purposes. There's no reason why it can't be a longer or even a shorter cycle or even nessisarily a change to the core spec on each itteration. For example Intel famously had their "tick-tock" cycle where each new release would alternate between die-shrink and mircoarchitecture change. Nintendo could do something similar with different sizes releasing between internal hardware revisions

In terms of developers developing for the higher tier SKU vs the lower spec one? It already happens in the PC space, it's not an impossible problem to solve. A lot of content won't take advantage of the higher spec other than getting a more stable framerate. Some content will struggle on the lower tier hardware (which already happens). And some developers (think iD, Nintendo) will tune and squeze all they can out of the hardware for the best experience on whatever SKU.

I mean the alternatives are either dropping support for the Switch or supporting the Switch as it is indefinitely. Maybe you guys will get your wish and they'll drop the Switch entirely in 2-3 years. I for one think that would be a dumb move with an install base of ~90mill when, with this architecture, there are alternative options.....

VoidofLight wrote:

The thing I dread is the infinite wait, since it'll become a thing where you know the device you want is going to be outclassed sooner or later, so you then wait for years and years until you get the peak one, only for the peak one to never come out because it just keeps endlessly going.

Buy them for your enjoyment now, if something new comes out then so be it. I learnt long ago to never regret a tech purchase that was outclassed soon after. It'll always be outclassed the second you make that transaction. You're buying the product for what it can do at the time of purchase.

As a side note, I'm not at all concerned if my Switch becomes incompatible with new releases. I know I'll be the first in line for the "next generation" if that's the path Nintendo goes down. I got the DS, Wii, 3DS, Wii U and Switch either at or within 6 months of launch, I know I'm a sucker for Nintendo's content and improved hardware. What I don't like is the gamble of new consoles, the double purchasing, the unnessisary ports and the reduced usable life of the hardware. Those things are completely unnessisary, anti-consumer and frankly not that great for the environment

Edited on by skywake

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

VoidofLight

@skywake The double purchasing of hardware will forever remain the same no matter if generations are abolished or not. Eventually, to continue playing the games you'll want to play, you'll have to get rid of the old console, even if it's the "Same" console you're planning to buy. The unnecessary ports are generally to fill out the library when they're working on new games anyways, and for the people who never got to play the older games as they didn't own the hardware at the time. Those won't be going anywhere either, since if they did, then many game companies would have dry periods quite often.

The gamble itself is understandable, but it's also a gamble to buy a console in general, even without generations, given that it'll still be completely outclassed anyways, unless they introduce consoles that are like gaming pc's, where you can customize the innards of the console and freely upgrade them without compromising a warranty.

(Insert creative or cool phrase here.)

Anti-Matter

@VoidofLight
I still keep my Old 3DS XL USA version since from 2013 even when I got New 3DS XL on year 2017. I cannot get rid my first original machine that I bought from my salary.
And some ported games are actually good especially when the games are from Steam version first then ported to consoles.

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skywake

@VoidofLight
When I said double purchasing I wasn't talking about the hardware specifically. I was talking about games and accessories also. There will always be something new and there will always be wear so it's not avoidable entirely. But specifically cutting off the previous "generation" for no reason other than preserving this artificial and unnecessary idea of "console generations"? That just adds to it and I don't see the point.

I mean you could argue that resetting everything allows them to sell you all the games and accessories again. Which is true. But resetting from their perspective also resets everything. It means no install base and no library of content. It's a risk and risks cost money. Also even if this is your argument and even if the risk somehow wasn't an issue (it is) you're still advocating for something that's not in our interests as consumers. So I'm not on your side in any case

Oh, and ports? You realise that enhanced versions still exist on PC where there is no clear boundary between generations right? Sometimes they even make them available for no extra cost to people who brought the originals. And if you destroyed the boundaries of generations then "people who didn't have the old hardware" would, you know, have access to those games without having to wait for a port. Also with no need to use ports to buff up the library those resources could be freed up to do other things. Like more DLC, the previously mentioned enhanced ports or gasp new content

Edited on by skywake

Some Aussie musics: Pond, TFS, Genesis Owusu
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Grumblevolcano

I think looking at the original XB1 throughout the past 8 years is a good example of the biggest problem that eliminating console generations faces. 2013-2017 generally had performance stable on XB1 but when the XB1X happened it became increasingly common that performance for the original XB1 was rough. Then it got even worse when the Series X|S came along in 2020.

I'm talking really bad, generally not one to care much about performance as perfectly shown by the fact I purchase 3rd party games mostly on Switch instead of Xbox when they come to both platforms but I'm pretty much in the position where I have a large backlog of games I want to play when I get a Series X because they run so bad on my XB1.

At least the vast majority of my favourite XB1 games launched in 2014-2015 so they still run well today.

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

Grumblevolcano

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Bolt_Strike

@VoidofLight The current form factor of the Switch is incredibly modular to the point where Nintendo really shouldn't be moving away from it anytime soon (if ever) and any innovations they could come up with can be added onto the Switch instead of replacing it completely. New controller gimmick? Create new Joycons/controllers that can attach to the screen. Need more horsepower? Upgrade the screen. Want to add more features to Docked Mode? Create a new dock. Future innovations are going to concern one or more of those components, and they've done a good job of breaking the Switch down into those core components so that if any one of them becomes outdated, the others can continue to be supported as needed. They've made the Switch a Ship of Theseus if you will. So the notion of periodic, incremental upgrades holding them back from innovating is false.

Also, I'd like to add to the chorus of voices saying that full generational shifts are not keeping the industry innovative. Next gen games, especially on the non-Nintendo side of things, have done very little to innovate in quite some time, opting primarily to improve the graphical quality instead of gameplay. The PS5's load times are a nice improvement, but that's the exception, not the rule. Most of the innovations in the industry in the last 15 years or so have been from Nintendo tinkering with different controller types, and in fact the rest of the industry is largely pushing back on that. And again, different controller types can simply swap in for the Joy Cons, you don't need to replace the entire Switch to do that.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

VoidofLight

@Bolt_Strike I guess I just hate the concept of this, due to how I'm not rich, and can barely afford consoles to begin with. If I do get a console, I don't want it to be outclassed in a year, and the games I experience to be lesser than how everyone else experiences it. If a switch game is advertised as a switch game now, then I understand that the game in the trailer, aside from third parties, will look and play like the game in the trailer.

If they did abandon generations, then the line would be bleeding, and it'll give them more leeway in showing a game that looks better than it actually plays, as it's running on the higher power version of the console, and not the model that I had to get since I'm not made of money.

I keep bringing this up, but imagine if BotW 2 gets more trailers, and they announce a new switch model, only showing gameplay recorded off that build, and not off the base model. It'd give people a false impression that the game runs way better than it actually does, unless you buy the higher priced console upgrade. Now imagine getting the game on launch, with it barely even running on the base switch as is, being 10 FPS and low resolution. You'd feel cheated right?

And yes, you could say "Well, it happens anyways, because CGI trailers exist!", but most Nintendo games don't have CGI trailers, and rather go for the approach of gameplay trailers, unless they're trying to reveal a game without showing the game off.

You could also say "Well, games on switch already run poorly", and while that is true, it's not every game that runs like that.

(Insert creative or cool phrase here.)

BruceCM

But IF this incremental increase happened every year, @VoidofLight .... Just about nobody would get a new Switch each time! Did most of us get the Mariko revision, for instance? You'd almost certainly find it'd be several revisions before there'd be enough difference between how most games were playing on them for it to become worth replacing your Switch
Just like how most people don't have to replace their phone every year (&, really, most people don't need top end devices at all but a lot still do get them)

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VoidofLight

@BruceCM True, but it's still just not a thing I'm excited for if it happens. I like generations more than I like the idea of a system that stays the same forever, barely changing.. and when it does change, then the system you have is worthless, and you'll never make your money back for it, as no one will want it either. Just like phones, where unless someone's a collector, reselling your phone barely gets you back the money that was put into it.

(Insert creative or cool phrase here.)

Bolt_Strike

@VoidofLight There's no need to upgrade frequently with an incremental upgrade system though. You could hold onto an "outclassed" console for 4-5 years before it becomes too outdated to run the newest games. So it really it'd be like having cross gen titles all generation.

As for developers using false advertising with newer models, that would be a valid concern, but that's more of a marketing issue than a sales model issue.

Bolt_Strike

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GrailUK

Has there been any rumblings of a Direct soon?

I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.

Switch FC: SW-0287-5760-4611

FragRed

@GrailUK No it’s all based on past years always having something during September.

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GrailUK

@FragRed I'm too busy waiting for October 5th! Hmm...a Direct would certainly make the wait much easier...

...rumble...rumble...(actually, I think that's my stomach.)

Edited on by GrailUK

I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.

Switch FC: SW-0287-5760-4611

Vortexeo

@GrailUK I wish there was but part of me thinks there isn't gonna be a direct in September. A lot of the recent trailers that have been posted to their youtube channel just seem like they could've been used in a direct. But then again I could be wrong and I hope I am

I'm always so close to finishing my backlog but then that one game that never goes on sale happens...

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GrailUK

@Vortexeo I hope you are wrong too heheh

I never drive faster than I can see. Besides, it's all in the reflexes.

Switch FC: SW-0287-5760-4611

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