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Topic: Metroid Prime 4: The Long(er) Wait

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kkslider5552000

MegaVel91 wrote:

Honestly I think you guys overestimate what having an open world would do to the feeling of isolation. It sounds more like a "change is bad" argument at it's core.

And this sounds like a "change is good" argument, so please don't pretend you have an argument.

There are open world elements you can use well in it, but it is almost inherently a contradiction to what people like about Metroid as a series. So even with a really good dev, the odds are, something would be compromised somewhere. And honestly it seems like overcompensating to appeal to core gamers. I like Nintendo innovating but sometimes it is entirely unnecessary.

Which brings me to the point that the Metroid Prime games innovated by turning a 2d exploration platformer shooter game into a first person "shooter". Which it did so to best change and recreate what made Metroid worked in a 3d environment, and even then it had to have some of the best first person platforming (not great, but ok for pre-Mirror's Edge type of gaming), in order to not make that part awful. I have no idea what open world would be needed for any change in Prime. Just make some bigger environments here and there.

Like BOTW, despite being a critically acclaimed game (incredibly so) and being a far more logical pick for a series to turn into open world, still took a ton of time and effort and money, and I question that Nintendo, even now, would consider Metroid a big enough investment to make sure NO MATTER WHAT that it worked out in the end (as Other M clearly showed). And even then, even people who LOVE the game, I've seen admit quite a bit that something was lost from previous 3D Zeldas. So even the best example of turning a Nintendo franchise open world...still had issues.

Just make a Metroid Prime game. It's been a decade, just let them make a game we already know can be good. Don't just force elements from EVERY ****ING BIG BUDGET GAME THIS DECADE. Just be a Metroid game. You won't die if Metroid Prime 4 isn't open world. Just let it be a well designed video game that's its own thing. Is that ok? Or are we gonna demand Rhythm Heaven be open world next? MOLE MANIA OPEN WORLD GOTY!!!111!!

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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Haru17

kkslider5552000 wrote:

Just make a Metroid Prime game. It's been a decade, just let them make a game we already know can be good. Don't just force elements from EVERY ****ING BIG BUDGET GAME THIS DECADE.

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Spoony_Tech

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JaxonH

Ya, forget open world, just give me a Metroid Prime game in the vein of the original trilogy. Wanna make it no loading like an open world, cool, but anything beyond that can and should be saved for a game that's not called Metroid. It's like the open world fever is hitting the Nintendo fanbase, and all it took was one game (Zelda). Not every game is well suited for that style. Pokemon, absolutely. Metroid... I never thought I'd live to see the day that's actually something people want for it.

Not sure how to feel about auto save. Maybe it could work, but the tension of finding save stations was part of the appeal of the games. Maybe just make them more frequent, and add a bookmark feature similar to Fire Emblem where you can save and quit at any time, and when you start up again you resume where you left off. That would be the best solution, I think

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Haru17

The autosave thing stems from my want for the combat to be intricately difficult. When I think of Metroid Prime I don't think 'those games are good because of the combat' — it's usually the level design, enemy design, and puzzles. They certainly got better as they went on, but Retro is just an American developer making a not combat-focused game. Not that it's a proper Japanese studio, I want to see melee attacks, but not just a single animation like Samus Returns. Something directional would work; maybe a sliding kick and thruster dive kick from the air.

This would work better in a third-person game, but it would be interesting if Samus' Power Armor / Varia Suit got damaged and broken away in places as she was hit by attacks. It would reveal patches of her Zero Suit and leave her open to conditions like poison and her actual 'game over' life being depleted. I realize that sounds like some fetish trash, but I think a Halo-like overshield that doesn't regenerate until you visit a save station would he an interesting survival horror element to add. I'm not sure how it would work with energy tank expansions, but it could be displayed in first-person by a small diagram in the corner of Samus's visor sort of like the Forza car damage diagram. Samus' hitbox would be separated into shin, boot, helmet, Varia suit chest harness, chest, etc and would shrink a little bit as her armor broke down (maybe it's made of energy?) Something like this would be a good opportunity to refine Samus' hitbox along with additional close-quarters combat options, as I always felt it was a little nebulous in MP Trilogy. Also, that diagram would give players feedback as to where they were being hit so they could understand and change up their gameplay.

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Tyranexx

@meleebrawler: Thanks for the warning! I managed to beat it, though I've found since that it isn't the only miniboss/boss that likes breaking your lock-on.

@Haru17: Agreed on the wonderful aesthetics in regards to some of the save stations. That was part of my motivation for finding them. I suspect the Prime games wouldn't impress some graphics nuts today, but when I first entered Phendrana...wow. I couldn't help but appreciate the detail that must have went into the game when it was first made.

As for adding more save stations, I wasn't suggesting adding them to every other room, but to make them more frequent like you suggested.

I got my first true taste of the Luminoth civilization yesterday and got to learn more about the dual nature of Aether. I also entered Dark Aether for the first time; comparisons of this game to ALttP are very accurate. The higher-ranked Ing are hard to hit and seem to like jumping/warping around. O_o At least I managed to get the Space Jump Boots back.

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meleebrawler

@Tyranexx Ah, the Space Jump Guardian you fought is the only Warrior Ing that actually, well, jumps, so you don't need to worry about that. As for the "warping", you mean turning into black goop to move around, right? You can still damage them in that state (just have to aim manually), and in fact will make them solid again faster.

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Aurumonado

@Tyranexx I started a new MP2 file last night too. There was an earlier save station, you must have just missed it.

You had to use the charge beam to shoot some boxes in Hive Chamber C. That would reveal a blue door that leads to the first save station.

Edited on by Aurumonado

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Bolt_Strike

Haru17 wrote:

This would work better in a third-person game, but it would be interesting if Samus' Power Armor / Varia Suit got damaged and broken away in places as she was hit by attacks. It would reveal patches of her Zero Suit and leave her open to conditions like poison and her actual 'game over' life being depleted. I realize that sounds like some fetish trash, but I think a Halo-like overshield that doesn't regenerate until you visit a save station would he an interesting survival horror element to add. I'm not sure how it would work with energy tank expansions, but it could be displayed in first-person by a small diagram in the corner of Samus's visor sort of like the Forza car damage diagram. Samus' hitbox would be separated into shin, boot, helmet, Varia suit chest harness, chest, etc and would shrink a little bit as her armor broke down (maybe it's made of energy?) Something like this would be a good opportunity to refine Samus' hitbox along with additional close-quarters combat options, as I always felt it was a little nebulous in MP Trilogy. Also, that diagram would give players feedback as to where they were being hit so they could understand and change up their gameplay.

Not really familiar with Halo, but they could take a page from Half Life's HEV Suit. Samus could have both an energy meter, which is her actual health, and a shield meter, which improves her resistance to damage (in other words, the same attack would deal less damage to her if her shield meter is higher). The shield could be degraded with successive attacks and could have its own upgrades.

Bolt_Strike

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Tyranexx

@meleebrawler: Correct, I was referring to the black goop. I was unaware that they could be damaged in that state, so thanks! Those fights should go faster now.

@Aurumonado: I did manage to find that save chamber; I was just wishing there had been another between that and the next one I found. I was expecting to find one around/right before that area with the GF ship.

To be fair, it was starting to get pretty late during that particular play session; I just wanted to find a save station and go to bed. XD

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Haru17

@Bolt_Strike That's sort of the dynamic I was thinking of, it's just strange to refer to Samus' bioorganic health as 'energy containers.' Maybe she would always have the same 100 health and energy containers built up her Power Armor's durability? The shield in Halo was rechargable, which isn't what I'm going for. If anything I want absorbing life units from enemies to be a temporary solution, not something that can totally refill your capabilities.

@Tyranexx Yeah, especially now that the game's on Switch they should have a solution for stopping playing, whether its a bookmark feature or just more frequent save stations.

I don't really want to spoil anything about Echoes, but I love the room you first intentionally teleport to Dark Aether in.

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Henmii

"It's like the open world fever is hitting the Nintendo fanbase"

Open world fever is hitting everywhere, also inside Nintendo. For example: Mario odyssey is also open world (sort of). That's why the checkpoints in levels are actually warp-points. The levels are gigantic!

In my opinion they should have gone the extra mile by making just one massive world instead of those seperate levels, and yeah Metroid open world could be great. But not every game has to be open world and hundreds of hours long. And in case of Mario, the "empty" disease is already hitting. Some places look very empty. And combined with the real world easthetics, very un-mario like.

Okay, maybe I went a bit off-topic there.

Henmii

JaxonH

Ya, not feeling the melee combat. I love the melee counter in Samus Returns- that rocks, but Metroid is combat has always been shooting, and that's ok. Guess I wouldn't mind one move tossed in for situations where you're in close quarters or something, but I don't want to see it become a focus where Metroid becomes a melee combat game. Maybe adapt the melee counter from Samus Returns or something, so it's reactionary rather than proactive.

I bet the development team knows the score. After seeing the reactions to the announcement, they're probably feeling pretty good about the insane level of interest in the game they're making. Which will only serve to encourage them to go all out, and make the best game they possibly can so as to not disappoint.

I'm feeling good about it. I think talented new development teams, I think Splatoon, which was a fantastic game. This might be just what Prime needed: a new perspective. And, this means we still have a Retro game to look forward to. And it's been in development since December 2013. Almost 4 years. Whatever it is, it's had a long time to cook. I bet we see it revealed before e3 2018. Otherwise, a reveal next e3 would mean almost 5 years development before even announcing, plus time until release. I have a feeling it'll be out next year. I suppose they could do a surprise reveal next e3 with a holiday 2018 release date.

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Aurumonado

In terms of melee combat in a Metroid prime game - I think the grapple beam could be used for that. Kind of an improvement of what we could do in prime 3.

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Bolt_Strike

Haru17 wrote:

I don't really want to spoil anything about Echoes, but I love the room you first intentionally teleport to Dark Aether in.

You mean the one in the cutscene or the one that you actually explore first? Because I'd actually like to see the former added to the game.

Bolt_Strike

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NaviAndMii

This is one of the best named threads on NL - well done OP, bravo! ..it would certainly seem like we do have a long wait ahead of us - the lack of actual game footage (in-game or cinematic) in the E3 reveal would make it seem like Prime 4 is in the very early stages of development ..hopefully we'll get remasters of the original Trilogy between now and then to help refresh our memories! **fingers crossed!**

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Grumblevolcano

The E3 reveal suggests at the very earliest, Prime 4 will be a holiday 2018 game but probably later.

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NaviAndMii

@Grumblevolcano Yeah, I have to agree - I've actually got it mentally penciled in for a 2019 release...but hope we get to see some footage next year (E3 '18?) to satiate our appetites

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Bolt_Strike

I do suspect we'll be waiting until 2019 to play this game, but we'll probably see first gameplay footage at E3 2018. The early reveal definitely feels like a "don't worry, we're working on it" statement and it's not really ready to be shown.

Bolt_Strike

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Tyranexx

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Haru17 wrote:

I don't really want to spoil anything about Echoes, but I love the room you first intentionally teleport to Dark Aether in.

You mean the one in the cutscene or the one that you actually explore first? Because I'd actually like to see the former added to the game.

I assumed Haru meant the large room where you activate the portal and enter Dark Aether itself. I agree, that room was quite impressive! I'm beginning to enjoy the Luminoth architecture in the game.

I managed to get both the dark and light beams last night. While I like them both (particularly what happens to the arm cannon when doing a charge shot with the dark beam), I hate that they're limited; I think it's kind of weird that you have to attack an enemy with the opposite beam in order to replenish the other. It's driving me a bit nuts as I like to keep stuff like that filled up if possible.

I also got to fight Dark Samus. That was a fun fight, though I was expecting her/it to be fought later in the game. I wonder how she/it got to Dark Aether in the first place? By hitching a ride with the space pirates?

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