Topic: Is Nintendo resting on its laurels?

Yes, of course they are funded by console manufacturers, it wouldn't be a very wise move otherwise. If anyone targets PS4 or Xbox one, it isn't especially hard to make it run on the other platform. Ages ago, you needed to rewrite everything when porting because the hardware were so odd. Todays developers are not targeting hardware, they are targeting game engines. Those engines are built to be portable between different platforms, from mobile phones to high-end PCs. So despite the games becoming bigger, it is still easier to port.

But I would argue that most will buy into the exclusives of a platform. This is what sets the power twins apart. Nintendo is the odd one out since they have managed to have a selling point outside the games this gen.

You might not think it is mediocre this year, but for me it definitely is. I will probably buy a couple of games this year, but that is despite the offerings, not because of them. The rest of my gaming time and money will sink into my PC, as usual.

I disagree. I would argue that "following trends" and "chasing gimmicks" are one in the same. The only difference, is with one of them, everyone is doing it... while the other, nobody is. I wasn't suggesting Nintendo follow other people's trends more. I was saying they ignore industry standards that have cemented themselves, not as simple trends.--But staples in the industry that the gamers have wanted. Things like robust hardware, achievements, diverse content, online infrastructure, ect. These aren't trends. they are cornerstones of modern gaming.

@EvilLucario Yeah, I feel the same way, but since you and @GrailUK mentioned it, I just HAD to reply.
I have compulsive fact spreader syndrome...

@Yorumi

You're right but don't you think that a PS4 offer a kind of nice compromise ?
I mean, if you buy a PC with good SPECS, Ok I understand your point but what kind of PC you get for 250€ ?
From my perspective, if you want to play 3rd party games in descent conditions and if the Playstation exclusives attract you, I think it's not a bad deal in term of quality/price.

@Yorumi

Holy **** yes, this so much. If hardware power was so important, then the N64/GameCube should have won over the PS1/PS2. If hardware power was so important, then people would have bought PS3s in droves initially. The PS4 is the only console that is just flat-out superior spec-wise (the SNES had a slower CPU than the Genesis IIRC) to the competition with the best sales, and let's be real here: a huge part of that was because both Nintendo and Microsoft were tripping over themselves with real bad decisions.

And now with Xbox and PS4's best games being third-party and on PC, it lies on their exclusives to really sell themselves. And while Sony does fine in that regard, Microsoft has a double-edged sword with their Play Anywhere, which really makes me wonder why I should get an Xbox, especially when I have a really good PC that will last me for some time and maybe even still beat the PS5/Xbox... Two.

Honestly, a $1000 PC is a better investment than a $400 console if you ask me, since everyone needs a computer but not everyone needs games. If people want to get on Switch's case for only being 30fps on some multiplatform games but then turn around to play multiplatform games on consoles at 30fps, that feels a bit hypocritical honestly. ESPECIALLY for some games that have no excuse like Crash N.Sane Trilogy.

Fanboys trying to justify both just blow my mind, man. And while Nintendo still makes some dumb decisions, they're still making smart decisions with their console designs that will always make me buy a Nintendo console over Xbox or PlayStation when PC also exists. Even the Wii U, as much of a blunder it was in many respects, still had at least some hook to it over Xbox and PlayStation, and some games like Nintendo Land really made enough use of it to be a fun time.

Because let's face it, PC has infinite backwards compatibility (so you can comfortably play 360/PS3 games released on PC during that era, plus the old 80s/90s/00s games), the best graphics/framerate, and the most type of controls with whatever controller you want to use. You can even hook it up to your TV so you can play on a couch. Xbox/PlayStation can and will never come close to that.

And yes, it's true that Xbox/PlayStation has the price and convenience advantage, that's always been the advantages of consoles. And Xbox/PlayStation's selective backwards compatibility is also enticing I'm sure. But with how PC-like they're trying to be at the core, I think it's better to just invest in a better PC to play what you want at better settings.

Sorry for the rant, but honestly while there are exclusives on Xbox/PlayStation that I'm sure are worth playing, overall it seems more and more of a waste to buy any of them when PC has all you can ask for and then some. Nintendo being so different may be a problem for some, but it's not for PC gamers like me.

@Yorumi

I understand your point but if a random dude want to have a machine to play, he's gonna buy everything he needs, motherboard, CPU, GPU, RAM, power supply etc... right ?
Even if you don't go for awesome SPECS, the cost of the entire machine will be over 500€ I guess.
I know some people who can't afford that kind of price. The easiest way for them is to go to the store, do a 3 monthly payment and done.

Another point, when you have a low specs PC and after a while you have to upgrade, sometimes you realize that you can't because your motherboard is not compatible with the new cpu's generation and the RAM type is different etc... So, how do you do then ? You change the motherboard, the CPU and the RAM ?

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand your point but I think for people who just want to play in descent conditions, a 250€ console with a vast libairy of pre-owned games available could be more appropriate for a certain type of people. On top of that, friends can lend you games easily and you don't have to bother with drivers/incompatibilities/conflicts and other stuff like that.

Us, we don't care, we have money, we assemble our own machines, we optimize our systems etc... but is it the best choice for everybody ? I'm not so sure... ^^

Older games really aren't that tough to run, guys. Yea, GOG makes a lot fool-proof, but even on your own it just takes a few minutes of research to figure it out for the REALLY old stuff. Anything on Windows will work relatively easily (and that can take you back pretty darn far). DOS gets harder but nothing a person willing to spend a few minutes can't solve.

If you ONLY have the game on floppy well then...yea lol

Proof: I still play all the old Lucasarts games, Mech Warrior stuff with Windows 10. There's always a way.

@ReaderRagfish Well, both Steam and GOG are fairly hassle-free with old games on there. Deus Ex and RollerCoaster Tycoon, for example, still work pretty well, and others like Doom and Quake are the same deal. And all the games released for PC back last generation (and before) like Batman: Arkham Asylum/City, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and KOTOR still work fine on modern hardware. So I'd say it still beats out backwards compatibility the PS4/Xbox can do.

@Yorumi Are you considering upgrading to a 144hz display? I've been thinking about it personally and I have the specs for 144fps on quite a few games, but I'm not sure if I should just get a 1080p 144hz monitor or a bog-standard 1440p monitor or just go all-out during Black Friday for a 1440p 144hz monitor. Regardless, upgrading specs always feels real good, though the cryptocurrency nonsense does suck for GPUs.

@ReaderRagfish I've mentioned that a bit earlier in my earlier post where Sony and Microsoft offered their own backwards compatibility, but it's either limited right now (Microsoft and some of PS1 classics on PS4), just extremely bad like PSNow, or flat-out doesn't exist like the Switch. PC is all as native as it can be, on the other hand, with a lot more variety. That's just my two cents though.

Don't forget International Superstar Soccer 64, Diddy Kong Racing, Bomberman 64, WCW vs nWo World Tour. Those were essential. And to an extent even NBA Hangtime, Extreme-G and Hexen were pretty nice additional games back in the day of the N64's first year. Bringing that count up to 18.

And yeah, you cannot leave out critically acclaimed exclusives like Turok: Dinosaur Hunter, Shadows of the Empire, Killer Instinct Gold, Mischief Makers, and DOOM 64.

And since I'm from Europe where the N64 released in March 1997, I even count the excellent Tetrisphere, superfun Snowboard Kids, and charming Yoshi's Story towards N64's first year.

@Yorumi

Yeah but is 400$ the standard price for a PS4 in the US ? o_O

Here, it's 250€ for a PS4 and around 279€ for a PS4 bundled with a game.

You did quote my entire post but it seems like you only grabbed onto half of it. I split Nintendo's risk taking into two clear pieces. In terms of online, pricing and their IP? They're incredibly risk averse. To their detriment in some cases they go out of their way to protect their family friendly image and their strong IP. Far more than the competition do. And it kinda makes sense in a way because the competition don't really have a family friendly image at all and don't have any IP that's even a fraction as big as Mario, Zelda, Pokemon. Even so, you're right to make that point and I agreed with you.

What I disagree with is the idea that they do the same with their hardware. It may not please "core gamers" but what Nintendo has done with their hardware is not the easy path. Any hardware manufacturer can put together a high spec piece of hardware. That's literally the first thing that the big tech companies push the hardest. @Yorumi is right, look at what hardware exists in the PC space. There are literally showpiece mini-PCs about the size of the Wii that are widely available with a GPU spec between the XBOne X and PS4 Pro and a CPU spec that towers over them. That's not to say that device is better, I'm just saying it's not a hard thing to do. And given everyone in the gaming community is demanding it it's an incredibly low risk strategy.

Nintendo by comparison has taken some big risks in terms of hardware. The Gameboy was a black and white product that was less capable than the NES in the 90s. Their competitors put out expensive, powerful, full colour portables. It paid off but it was definitely a huge risk. Same deal with the DS which at the time was a weird, low powered portable that was betting big on touch screen gaming. This at a time before the iPhone was a thing, when touch screens were for clunky and slow interactive products. Sony responded by pushing out a high spec multi-media device. Nintendo was taking far more risks.

With the Switch? We've seen analyst after analyst say that portable gaming is dead for the last decade. The NVidia Tegra has been something NVidia has pushed hard but before the Switch nobody really took much notice. The conventional wisdom was that there was no market for high spec gaming portables. And ontop of this, by going with the Switch, Nintendo are now basically a single platform company.

A risk averse Nintendo would've released a high spec x86 based console. For portables they would have just extended the DS line some more with a low-cost, low risk 3DS successor of some kind. But they didn't. They went all in on Tegra and a hybrid concept. In terms of hardware Nintendo are very much the least conservative company on the market.

Yes, I put everything down in black and white in response to your post prior to this where, dripping with sarcasm, you called me a genius. Don't take the moral high ground here. The truth is you lost the argument so you started attacking the person. And, like most people on the internet these days, you're not wise enough to step back and acknowledge that you got it wrong.

@skywake

you're incredible !

I copy/past the end of my last message because as USUAL ^^ you choose only the part that suits you but not the rest.

I quote myself then : "But Ok, you know what, I present my apologies if I have offended you because, to forget is to forgive without merit.

PEACE."

Hope you get it now ?

Like I said, in my region they all were first year games (March 97 - March 98).

Shadows of the Empire was a millionseller and many people really liked it. I played through it with a friend and it was challenging and exciting back in the day, and we had lots of fun with it. I still remember the damn sewer monster and we played it in cinema mode which was hilarious! (It was also the very first Nintendo game optimized for the PAL market.)

And Hexen has an exclusive 4 player splitscreen co-op mode that was just great fun. This mode was an original never-seen-before touch to the genre, and it made Hexen on the N64 the definitive version imo, unlike the "definitive versions" we see nowadays.

@Cobalt
I don't want an apology, I was not offended. I want you to admit that you were wrong for once. Even now you're still pushing the can down the road, deflecting and attacking my character rather than actually stepping back. "I present my apologies if I have offended" is not an apology, apologies don't contain the word "if". In any case it only addresses your personal attacks and not the actual points that were being made.

@Yorumi
Yep, 399 was the launch price but it's not that price anymore.

@skywake
" I want you to admit..."
Insane ! o_O

Am I a kind of neo-slave in your disturbed mind or what ? ^^

You want, you want, you want... You remind me a kid who don't get a toy that I just saw in a store and order his parents to buy it..." I want, I want..."

First, I suggest to you to breath in, then breath out. When it's done, recover your common sense and if you WOULD LIKE to ask me something, go ahead but if you WANT ME TO... No way ! ^^

The ball is in your court buddy.

@Cobalt
If you want to go through life hurling insults at anyone who dares to disagree with you? Go ahead, it's your life I guess. All I'm saying is that a conditional apology that nobody asked for is beneath you. When someone comes along and tears apart your opinions with facts? Don't go changing the topic or attacking their character. If their points are more compelling than your own have the guts to step back and change your mind.

You're now calling me a child for using a specific word taken way out of context. This is your MO. If you wanted to look like the bigger person what you could have done is step back and say that I'm right to say that the Switch is more portable than the Wii U GamePad was. That I'm right to say that the Switch does display a clearer image on its screen than the Wii U could push to the GamePad. That I'm right to say that the Switch already has a larger library of content than the Wii U had. If you did that you'd look like the bigger person.

Instead you're behaving like everyone else on the internet does. You form an opinion, drop into your bunker and defend it at all cost. Everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Everyone who dares to question your belief is part of some cult or whatever. I'm being hard on your mostly because of how god-damn obvious it is that you are clearly wrong here. But this crap is everywhere. It's a disease of the internet, don't fall into that trap.

@skywake

Again, you select only what suits you...

May I recommand you to apply to you, the advices that you politely give to me ?
Ow and another thing, I don't call you a child, I wrote : " You want, you want, you want... You remind me a kid who don't get a toy that I just saw in a store and order his parents to buy it..." I want, I want..."

That's not saying that I call you a child, it means that your attitude towards me, remind me the one of a kid... There is a nuance.

Now, do you need that I refresh your memory about how it started ?

You came with a list of games, explaining that the Switch has more games above X% than the Wii U.
I just explain to you that it was a stupid comparison because the Wii U games ported to the Switch were included in the Switch percentage.
You basically explain that you don't care because Wii U ports are Switch games still.

So I said OK to you but in that case, we have to count for the Wii U games all the Wii games then, because the Switch can improve its score with games made on Wii U, the Wii U must get the Wii games on it's score too due to the instant playability of them.

Basically, you counted games already created before the Switch to explain that in only 1 year 1/2, the Switch has more game above X% ! This is a nonsense.

Hope this time, you'll get the point.

@Cobalt
1. There is no nuance, if anything "kid" is more loaded than "child"
2. As I said earlier, I didn't respond to some of your specific points because they weren't particularly strong. Your strategy is to throw everything at the argument in the hopes that something will stick. I countered specific points which could be shut down quickly and without opinion based arguments
3. You are yet to concede any of the main points of your argument

@skywake

I suppose that you like to read (like me), isn't it ?
I wouldn't be surprised if we shared a useful book in common...

Dunno if it's true or not but I take my chance :

"Die Kunst, Recht zu behalten" rings a bell ?