I don't want to see a Mario Maker port unless it removes the limitations surrounding water, game theme-restricted pieces (why?), level size and shape, and all of the cool moving parts from NSMB that went ignored. I also don't want to see the Wii U 2D platformers generally.
Agreed.
Nintendo should give us the old games remade in Super Mario Maker exactly as they were in those old games as a starting point for players. And any new features, abilities or graphics required to remake those old games accurately would be given to the player to use freely.
You can whine all I want about games like Just Dance but for some people that's the game they'll buy the system for. The more people who buy the system? The more time/money is going to be put into developing content for that system.
On the chance that you're not already aware of this; it's not always as simple as that. If buyers unluckily invest in a string of poorly made titles, their faith in the system could quickly die resulting in a large part of the install base abandoning the console completely, and even Nintendo as a franchise. Though I honestly don't know if the Just Dance franchise could be categorised as one of those poor products.
As previously mentioned; shovalware titles. A console needs a good variety of games, but too many low quality titles can equally kill off a system (as was the case with the original Wii) or even the entire industry, as was seen in the 1980's America.
I know quality is subjective, but as some mention, there are some really poor games that are clearly made to profit from uninformed buyers.
I dunno...
I'm with @skywake - I'd welcome any game of any genre to the Switch, even if it's not my kind of game...one man's steak and chips is another man's caviar, so to speak - I see no reason why we can't all eat at the same table!
When I think about the consoles that had a ton of bad games; I think of the NES, the PSX, the Wii...the most successful consoles - which also had some really iconic games that helped to capture the immaginations of the masses!
At the end of the day, good and bad developers alike will crowd to the platforms where they feel like they can make the most money...if somebody wastes their money buying a bad game, they really only have themselves to blame - especially in this day and age - with so many free-to-access review sites, aggregator sites, YouTube Let's Play videos etc. - the information is at your fingertips, so there's no reason to 'buy blind' and just hope for the best...I really don't think that a consoles success is dependent on the buying habits of the uninformed.
In a strange way, I think that it'd probably be a good sign for the Switch if it started to get a load of bad games coming to it...it means that it's showing signs of success and developers see an opportunity to make a buck! Quantity alone doesn't define a consoles legacy - it's the quantity of good games that'll define it in the long run...but if the Switch can attract the crème de la crème, you can bet your life it'll attract the stinkers too!
I'm with @skywake - I'd welcome any game of any genre to the Switch, even if it's not my kind of game...one man's steak and chips is another man's caviar, so to speak - I see no reason why we can't all eat at the same table!
Pretty much what I was getting at...although this paragraph made me hungry. XD
In a strange way, it'd probably be a good sign for the Switch if it started to get a load of bad games coming to it...it means that it's showing signs of success and developers see an opportunity to make a buck! Quantity alone doesn't define a consoles legacy - it's the quantity of good games that'll define it in the long run...but if the Switch attracts the crème de la crème, you can bet your life it'll attract the stinkers too!
A true observation, and likely what will be an inevitable occurrence. Hopefully Nintendo's QA department does a better job this time, but I'm not putting all my hopes into that.
...Though some shovelware IS fun, in a sense. My brother got the infamous Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing as a gift years ago, and he actually enjoyed screwing around with the game's brokenness.
Currently playing: Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr's Journey, Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana (Switch)
@Tyranexx Oh yeah, totally! My brother used to be like that with the SNES...he'd get a 'AAA' game-or-two for his birthday, or as Christmas presents - but for the rest of the year he'd spend the little bit of money he could scrape together on the gaming equivalents of bargain bucket, straight-to-DVD films - and just revel in their mediocrity!
..but, if it wasn't for the Mario's and Metroid's, he wouldn't have been attracted to the SNES in the first place - so quality is key - but quantity and variety can only be a good thing if the quality titles are there as well
(p.s. I made myself hungry too! ..time to go to the supermarket me thinks! )
If buyers unluckily invest in a string of poorly made titles, their faith in the system could quickly die resulting in a large part of the install base abandoning the console completely, and even Nintendo as a franchise.
I'm not so convinced. I think you'll find that even if you selected games randomly you'd come across stuff you'd like. Especially given that popular content is easier to find. For example say I was wanting to build a collection of games for the "shovelware laden Wii" from scratch right now. What's the easiest way to do it? Second hand. Potluck. So I'd go the the Australian equivalent of Craigslist and buy random lots of games. Here's a list of the unique games from the first three lots I come across:
Zelda: Twilight Princess
Carnival Games
Skylanders Giants
Link's Crossbow Training
Mario Kart Wii
Cricket
Wii Sports
New SMB Wii
Wii Fit
Wii Play
Sonic Unleashed
Super Mario Galaxy
Zumba Fitness
EA Active
NPC Mario Power Tennis
All Star Cheerleader 2
Just Dance 2014
Now the Wii was pretty bad for shovelware so this is a worse list of games than you'd see for most other consoles. But even so in the first three stacks of games people were selling? There are some pretty good games. If you randomly selected four games from that list? I reckon it's unlikely the person would end up moving off gaming forever as you claim. Even with the Wii's library.
Also Stars. Last thing the series needs is to rush onto the Switch with a port of a game we just played last year, that'll cause all kinds of long term problems for the series in terms of communication and compatibility. They're better off just letting 7th gen play out on the 3DS and debuting on the Switch with a big 8th gen game that can fully take advantage of the hardware upgrade and sell much more.
Also Stars. Last thing the series needs is to rush onto the Switch with a port of a game we just played last year, that'll cause all kinds of long term problems for the series in terms of communication and compatibility.
I don't see any reason why the Switch wouldn't be able to communicate with the 3DS. It's basically just WiFi so there are no issues there. Online? Well friend lists won't line up but beyond that I don't see what the issue would be. You could easily just not allow Switch players to battle against 3DS players. But the GTS and Pokemon Bank should work fine. Making a new generation of games would if anything create more compatibility issues.
They're better off just letting 7th gen play out on the 3DS and debuting on the Switch with a big 8th gen game that can fully take advantage of the hardware upgrade and sell much more.
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"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
I don't see any reason why the Switch wouldn't be able to communicate with the 3DS. It's basically just WiFi so there are no issues there. Online? Well friend lists won't line up but beyond that I don't see what the issue would be. You could easily just not allow Switch players to battle against 3DS players. But the GTS and Pokemon Bank should work fine. Making a new generation of games would if anything create more compatibility issues.
You're kidding yourself if you think you're going to have no problems whatsoever trading and battling between 3DS and Switch, especially when said systems aren't even BC. Hell, it took an intermediate app just to get transfers from DS to 3DS working. 3DS to Switch communication is likely going to go as far as Bank support. And when communication is that limited, it defeats the purpose of making them 7th gen games, by that point you're better off just having a clean break and starting 8th gen.
A graphics upres is far from the extent to which Pokemon can take advantage of the Switch and isn't an exciting reason to buy Pokemon on the Switch. They can do much more with the actual region design in terms of making larger scale and more detailed areas. Imagine a Pokemon game more like OoT or BotW, that would be a pretty dramatic improvement for the series. Thing is though, that a port of a 3DS game is not going to show this since it's still operating under the same design limitations of the 3DS. You would need an 8th gen game designed from the ground up around the Switch to fully show this.
A graphics upres is far from the extent to which Pokemon can take advantage of the Switch and isn't an exciting reason to buy Pokemon on the Switch. They can do much more with the actual region design in terms of making larger scale and more detailed areas. Imagine a Pokemon game more like OoT or BotW, that would be a pretty dramatic improvement for the series. Thing is though, that a port of a 3DS game is not going to show this since it's still operating under the same design limitations of the 3DS. You would need an 8th gen game designed from the ground up around the Switch to fully show this.
I agree. Pokémon Sun and Moon looks amazing on the 3DS, but just upscaling them for the Switch would be a huge disappointment. I do want Stars or DPT remakes this year, but I'd rather they stay on the 3DS and release Gen 8 on the Switch.
@Bolt_Strike BC has nothing to do with trading/battling. There's no reason why the Switch can't connect with the 3DS, as long as the two systems can communicate, trading is possible.
The only issue is new in-game features. If they introduce new Pokemon, items, moves, abilities, etc., they need to find a workaround to make it compatible with Sun & Moon. That has nothing to do with the Switch however. Pokebank was just an issue solution to make this possible without implementing any check in X&Y. It also meant they can use it for future game and more importantly, they can charge you for the app. So no, there was no technical barrier, it was just a smart business move.
The only issue is new in-game features. If they introduce new Pokemon, items, moves, abilities, etc., they need to find a workaround to make it compatible with Sun & Moon. That has nothing to do with the Switch however. Pokebank was just an issue solution to make this possible without implementing any check in X&Y. It also meant they can use it for future game and more importantly, they can charge you for the app. So no, there was no technical barrier, it was just a smart business move.
They wouldn't introduce new Pokemon in that, they only do that for new generations where there are new paired games with a new region. The closet there would be to introducing "new" Pokemon would be Mega forms, like how OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire introduced new Mega forms. Though even then, Mega Pokemon have kind of been dumped in this latest generation and are not nearly as prevalent as they were before.
@MegaMari0 Federation Force is like the equivalent of today's Super Mario Bros 2.
I can't even begin to explain how ridiculously stupid and wrong this statement is.
Because of your lack of understanding in what the comparison being made is?
I'd like an explanation myself. SM2 is a reskin of doki doki panic and meant for America because they thought lost levels was too hard for us. So what's the comparison?
"When expecting booby traps, always send the boob in first." -Megatron-
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@MegaMari0 Federation Force is like the equivalent of today's Super Mario Bros 2.
I can't even begin to explain how ridiculously stupid and wrong this statement is.
Because of your lack of understanding in what the comparison being made is?
I'd like an explanation myself. SM2 is a reskin of doki doki panic and meant for America because they thought lost levels was too hard for us. So what's the comparison?
Because theyre both games that have very little to do with their previous games. Maybe it's a bad comparison for people to understand. I thought it was pretty straightforward.
@Bolt_Strike BC has nothing to do with trading/battling. There's no reason why the Switch can't connect with the 3DS, as long as the two systems can communicate, trading is possible.
The only issue is new in-game features. If they introduce new Pokemon, items, moves, abilities, etc., they need to find a workaround to make it compatible with Sun & Moon. That has nothing to do with the Switch however. Pokebank was just an issue solution to make this possible without implementing any check in X&Y. It also meant they can use it for future game and more importantly, they can charge you for the app. So no, there was no technical barrier, it was just a smart business move.
No, Bank exists because Game Freak was unable to transfer data from the DS games to the 3DS games directly like they could with Pal Park and Poke Transfer in 4th and 5th gen, they needed an intermediate app to allow you to transfer your Pokemon from 5th gen to 6th gen. My point is, if it took all of that for two systems that were BC, what makes you think two systems that aren't can communicate?
I just don't want to see the flood of shovelware that afflicted the Wii U eShop. It shouldn't be too bad if the Switch ends up getting a big library of non-shovelware games, but the Wii U didn't and thus had a disquietingly high percentage of shovelware as its eShop selection.
You're kidding yourself if you think you're going to have no problems whatsoever trading and battling between 3DS and Switch, especially when said systems aren't even BC. Hell, it took an intermediate app just to get transfers from DS to 3DS working. 3DS to Switch communication is likely going to go as far as Bank support. And when communication is that limited, it defeats the purpose of making them 7th gen games, by that point you're better off just having a clean break and starting 8th gen.
Well you argue that Pokemon Bank is the solution they had to come up with for transferring Pokemon from DS to 3DS. Implying that the solution was some kind of first for the series. That's not really true. Pretty much every new generation of games has had some kind of system like this. Gen 4 had you plug in the GBA pack in the bottom of the system. Gen 5 had you had something similar for transferring Pokemon but you needed a second DS. You get to Gen 6 and they're now using Pokemon Bank.
Just because there hasn't been a same-gen game across different generations of hardware doesn't mean it's impossible. I'd argue that Pokemon Bank only came about with the 3DS games because it's the first generation of portables that could actually use it. You couldn't download apps to the DS for moving from G4 to G5 and you didn't need it from G3 to G4 because you had the cartridge slot. Pokemon Bank launched for G6 because it was a 3DS game and you can download apps to the 3DS. That's it.
A graphics upres is far from the extent to which Pokemon can take advantage of the Switch and isn't an exciting reason to buy Pokemon on the Switch. They can do much more with the actual region design in terms of making larger scale and more detailed areas.
That doesn't mean that they can't have one game where it's mostly just an upres. Pokemon Sun & Moon scale pretty well as it is, it wouldn't take much work to get it looking at home on the Switch. Improved textures and a bit more graphical detail. Speaking for myself? I'd much rather buy that than what they usually do. I have zero interest in another Pokemon game on 3DS and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
A graphics upres is far from the extent to which Pokemon can take advantage of the Switch and isn't an exciting reason to buy Pokemon on the Switch. They can do much more with the actual region design in terms of making larger scale and more detailed areas. Imagine a Pokemon game more like OoT or BotW, that would be a pretty dramatic improvement for the series. Thing is though, that a port of a 3DS game is not going to show this since it's still operating under the same design limitations of the 3DS. You would need an 8th gen game designed from the ground up around the Switch to fully show this.
Everyone (more or less) has been desperate for Nintendo to do something very ambitious with Pokémon since the very beginning. For better or worse GameFreak has resisted that. They make incremental improvements that add up over time but the series has never had a big leap or gamble on transformative new mechanics to replace older ones.
It's the most conservative RPG series still standing.
So if you're waiting for Pokémon BotW you might be waiting forever.
Well you argue that Pokemon Bank is the solution they had to come up with for transferring Pokemon from DS to 3DS. Implying that the solution was some kind of first for the series. That's not really true. Pretty much every new generation of games has had some kind of system like this. Gen 4 had you plug in the GBA pack in the bottom of the system. Gen 5 had you had something similar for transferring Pokemon but you needed a second DS. You get to Gen 6 and they're now using Pokemon Bank.
Just because there hasn't been a same-gen game across different generations of hardware doesn't mean it's impossible. I'd argue that Pokemon Bank only came about with the 3DS games because it's the first generation of portables that could actually use it. You couldn't download apps to the DS for moving from G4 to G5 and you didn't need it from G3 to G4 because you had the cartridge slot. Pokemon Bank launched for G6 because it was a 3DS game and you can download apps to the 3DS. That's it.
No, what I'm saying is that they had to come up with Bank because they couldn't use the kinds of solutions they did in 4th and 5th gen, this was mentioned at the E3 roundtable. DS and 3DS software couldn't communicate with each other in the same way that GBA and DS software did in 4th and 5th gen's transfer systems, so they needed Bank to serve as an intermediate app. Cross console compatibility has always been shaky at best in the series, beyond DS -> 3DS you also had the GBA games unable to communicate with the 2nd gen games because of differences in how data was exchanged in trades (GB/GBC games had to send one Pokemon and then the other, whereas the GBA games could exchange both games at once), and without the GBA slot on the DS who knows if GBA games would've been able to communicate with the DS games (I'd wager probably not). Cross gen communication has always been shaky at best, I don't see why 3DS -> Switch would be any different.
That doesn't mean that they can't have one game where it's mostly just an upres. Pokemon Sun & Moon scale pretty well as it is, it wouldn't take much work to get it looking at home on the Switch. Improved textures and a bit more graphical detail. Speaking for myself? I'd much rather buy that than what they usually do. I have zero interest in another Pokemon game on 3DS and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Said game would not attract many people to the Switch, and not nearly as many as a new entry which sells at least double what third versions do. Graphics are not going to be enough for Pokemon fans to make the jump to the Switch, and the casual audience that doesn't really care about specs probably isn't going to care if it's still on 3DS. By far the smartest business move for Game Freak is to wait until they're ready to come out with 8th gen before making the jump to the Switch.
[Everyone (more or less) has been desperate for Nintendo to do something very ambitious with Pokémon since the very beginning. For better or worse GameFreak has resisted that. They make incremental improvements that add up over time but the series has never had a big leap or gamble on transformative new mechanics to replace older ones.
It's the most conservative RPG series still standing.
So if you're waiting for Pokémon BotW you might be waiting forever.
Game Freak's resisted a lot of things only to reverse their policies when changes in hardware and the market warrant them. They've said the same thing about mobile, 3D graphics, and gyms in the past and we've seen games that have made those kinds of changes. Now that they'd be developing on their first console, a major change is again warranted because they'll be dealing with much stronger hardware and a new market of gamers that expects larger scale games. Heck, Game Freak themselves have admitted that developing for the Switch is going to require a completely different approach. So it's perfectly reasonable to expect 8th gen to be a lot more ambitious than past games and that's what most people are expecting from it if it's going to serve as a console game now.
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