I see now that bad or lazy developers are just bad and lazy because of trophies? I think that's putting way too much hyperbole on the impact of trophies on development teams. A convenient scape goat to hide their laziness / unwillingness to actually offer meaningful rewards. And bad devs have been around forever, so I certainly don't think they suddenly popped up because of achievements. Like anything, some people abuse it, others work with it to enhance their product. Can't blame the entirety for the actions of a few.
Why don't you try to make a cohesive argument to see if you can make me shut up about it? You didn't even address the points I made properly (or @shaneoh's, for that matter), and I'm beginning to think it's because you don't know how.
Actually I just don't care. You can cry me a river all day long though. It is a good song.
not read the rest of this thread but i think achievements are definately a good thing, they will push people that think they are done with the game to play it more and plus you know you wanna have more points than your friends, its a competitive thing
Exactly. It can be a lot of fun seeing who can collect 300 trophies first. I do competitions where the first one to collect 1,000 trophies wins. But some people like to "cry rivers" and complain. I have over 10,000 PS trophies and I do not regret a single one. I adore trophies/achievements.
@MarcelRguez
But see, you're really whitewashing gamers in your argument. In post#164, you state: "And you can't say for sure that it hasn't affected your experience because making features such as this one an almost global standard conditions how consumers perceive games..."
Well, hook me up to some wires and get a pen and pencil, because achievements/trophies/whatever the heck Steam uses have had ZERO impact on how I approach my games. I don't look at them, I don't pursue them, and when the system allows, I turn of their notifications altogether.
That throws a pretty big wrench in your "all people think this way" kind of argument, which is a fallacy, and pretty "laughable" (to use the term you seem fond of accusing other arguments of). Am I the only person in the world who acts this way, either? Logically, not by a long shot.
So if it became mandatory for all games, my choice is either participate or not play games?
Hello! McFly! They are mandatory. All Xbox and Playstation games have trophies and achievements. They are mandatory. So you are not participating in anything. They are part of the game. That is like saying you are not wanting to participate in a certain level of the game then COMPLAIN about it.
So if I'm McFly that would make you Tannen. XD.
You do realise that there are other platforms to play on other than Sony and Microsoft made ones, right? You should do, this is Nintendolife after all. Then there is PC. As I said, achievements are not mandatory for those systems, ergo, achievements are not mandatory.
I'm a tad disappointed, you had a few hours to write a response and that was the best you could come up with? An argument which I had already countered?
Why don't you try to make a cohesive argument to see if you can make me shut up about it? You didn't even address the points I made properly (or shaneoh's, for that matter), and I'm beginning to think it's because you don't know how.
I agree. It's not as if I'm not open to having my mind changed, there was a time when I would have been for achievements. But as this argument (if we can call it that) goes on, my conviction is only getting stronger. We should have the option to disable achievements completely, not just turn off notifications.
You in particular might not have changed your approach, others might.
I'm going to be honest here, for a while it did change how I played games, until I realised there was no enjoyment to be had from it. I would check what it wanted me to do and play accordingly. Looking back over the games I've got all the achievements for, those achievements didn't provide any lasting joyous memory.
But I remember finishing the hardest difficulty of Hitman Blood Money with a silent assassin rating in each level. I remember beating Nappa with Tien in the story mode of Dragonball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3 (6 health bars and stronger attacks to my two bars and standard attacks, you're meant to go through several characters beating him). I remember stealing a win from my mates while playing King of the Hill in Halo 2 (it had been a decade since I had last used an original Xbox). I remember my poorly armed squad of dwarves in Dwarf Fortress, cutting the limbs off of a were-lizard, before knocking out its teeth and spilling its guts (damn that was awesome).
Any single one of those memories of achievement is worth more than all of the developer's achievements I've unlocked. Sure I've started up "Universal sandbox," but so have ~91% of all the other people who own it. I've started it up ten thousand times and I don't feel I've achieved anything, despite it telling me I have.
It's Microsoft and Sony console that have them as a standard "feature," they aren't a mandatory inclusion for Nintendo consoles and PCs. It's still, thankfully far from a standard feature. Again, I'll recommend reading the rest of this posts in this topic. It has already been covered.
You do realise that there are other platforms to play on other than Sony and Microsoft made ones, right?
Sorry but you can not change your tune to fit your argument when you know damn well we were going on about trophies and achievements. And clearly we were talking about Sony and Microsoft there. You cried about participation and that is when I said they are mandatory and are part of the game. Pay more attention to the discussion.
I have never seen anyone cry about trophies like you and Marcell. Everyone knows if Nintendo introduced the feature you both would be praising it. It seems like you both are anti anything that is not Nintendo.
I have never seen anyone cry about trophies like you and Marcell. Everyone knows if Nintendo introduced the feature you both would be praising it. It seems like you both are anti anything that is not Nintendo.
Everyone knows that if @Lethal keeps making jumps in logic and baseless assumptions instead of trying to have an actual debate, he's going to keep playing himself for as long as this thread stays open.
There is no debate. Trophies do nothing but good for gaming and sales. Nobody has to try to unlock them if they do not want to. You can disable the notifications from the OS settings.
@MarcelRguez
I turn them off if I can and the option is readily accessible. If it's something I have to dig for, I don't bother. For instance, I'm not sure about Steam achievements or trophies or whatever - they're on for me, I guess, but I've never even bothered looking at them. Also couldn't tell you how many Steam trading cards or collectibles or whathaveyou I've got - because I don't care. I wouldn't even know they existed if Steam wouldn't flash them in my face during every Winter/Spring/Summer/Fall/heyitswhateverholiday sales event. (In fact, I don't even know if they're still a thing lol)
For Xbox I turned them off because a) it was pretty straightforward to do so and b) they were interrupting Netflix and other streaming service movies/shows (this happens on Xbox One - not sure about 360). Watching a relatively sad scene with my wife and having a "DING!" come out of nowhere was getting annoying.
That's why I turned them off. In retrospect, it had absolutely nothing to do with gaming. I couldn't really care any less if they were off or on for gaming, as I don't bother with them anyway, but interrupting movies and stuff was getting ridiculous.
See, the root of your debate that you think you're being so cerebral about comes down to one word: participation. Your argument hinges on this idea that you believe participation happens as long as somebody is "in" the activity. If my kid is playing a soccer game and I accidentally stumble onto the field for a few moments, in your world, I would be "participating" in the soccer game. In the same regard, if I'm playing a video game, perhaps totally unaware that achievements are a thing and even exist, and suddenly one pops up, I'm "participating" in the imperialistic enterprise of achievement doom.
I don't see participation that way. If I wander onto the proverbial field (soccer game or a video game with achievements), I am only participating if I choose to actively take PART in what is going on. If I give the ball a kick, then hey! Now I'm participating to some degree. But if I sit on the sidelines and watch the ball BE kicked (or the achievements pop up from time to time), I am most definitely NOT participating in the actual event.
(Yes, that then goes to connect with: I'm an avid sports fan, but I do not believe fans "participate" in the sport. Unless you get hit with a golf ball and the player needs to play from the spot it landed after it nailed you in the noggin. Then you are a participant lol)
Sorry but you can not change your tune to fit your argument when you know damn well we were going on about trophies and achievements. And clearly we were talking about Sony and Microsoft there. You cried about participation and that is when I said they are mandatory and are part of the game. Pay more attention to the discussion.
Who is changing their tune? This whole thread is about achievements in general and whether they should come to Nintendo consoles. I've been talking about achievements on all consoles and PC this whole time, and you were the one who interjected on my portion of the conversation. The fact that Sony and Microsoft have mandatory achievements for their systems (which also reinforces my argument that you are forced to participate), doesn't mean that achievements need to be mandatory for all games across all systems. We went for years without them, why are they vital now? Answer: they aren't.
I have never seen anyone cry about trophies like you and Marcell.
Ha, unable to come up with a satisfactory argument, so you try to discredit ours by insisting that we're "crying." Classic. Have you considered a career politics?
Everyone knows if Nintendo introduced the feature you both would be praising it. It seems like you both are anti anything that is not Nintendo.
[sarcasm]Didn't realise you were psychic. Your powers must be magnificent to be able to survey the entire planet, or at least the gaming part of it.[/sarcasm] FYI Nintendo has "accomplishments" in Streetpass Plaza and they're still ridiculous and meaningless. Don't presume to know how a person will behave or react.
It's hilarious that because we don't like how something is done by a competitor, it automatically makes us anti-anything-not-Nintendo, particularly as, at the top of this page, I mentioned four of MY memorable accomplishments in games, only one of which was done on a Nintendo platform. Believe it or not the only blind worshipping going on here is by yourself towards achievements. Nintendo can do wrong, Super Paper Mario was awful, so is their decision to move towards a subscription based service for online play.
@rallydefault
I get where your analogy is coming from, I do. But for me its like I'm the one playing the soccer game for my enjoyment and I don't want any certificates or medallions or anything, so I don't go to the end of season ceremony, but someone posts them to me anyway even though they know I don't want them. Difference being I could scrap the awards I won in the soccer game, but I can't scrap achievements. I want to be able to disable achievements completely.
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