Topic: Nintendo Switch 2

I think review scores are generally a good indicator of the quality of the game. They're defo fraught with issues (in fact, any measure by which we can score or compare artistic works like video games is flawed IMO), but they definitely correlate with the quality of a game...even if the extent to which they do this is arguable. I think the issue is that many take a number to mean objective value which simply isn't the case.

Personally I find review scores to be a good general guide, but will always look at the reviews themselves if I'm interested in something. I'd say my approach is similar to that of @skywake's...if something's on my radar already I'm unlikely to allow the score alone to put me off, and will look at reviews to understand whether it's worth my time or not. Conversely, if I see something score 90+ it is bound to get my attention...but again, I need to do some further research to determine whether that particular game is for me.

User scores? Those are absolute rubbish.

@SillyG
I think it does as long as there's a wifi connection- the game key cart has no installable data on it, so everything comes from the eShop like a digital game. But like I said, once the icon is there, you're golden.

Ya know, I'm starting to get really skeptical that these digital storefronts will ever cut off redownloads in our lifetimes. Maybe for rented shops from the early pioneering days like Wii or DS, even the segregated eShops of 3DS and Wii U, but moving forward with the Nintendo-owned, unified, account-based eShop of Switch and Switch 2... I wouldn't be surprised if they maintained redownloads for purchased titles in perpetuity. Particularly since Switch 2 BC means the original NSW1 games are still being bought this gen.

@Buizel
If you mean user scores from sites like MC, I agree. It's just a competition of 10's and 0's, and typically anything that's not fully multiplatform will not have trustworthy reviews, and anything with controversy. God forbid it's an exclusive with controversy.

But user reviews from normal people on sites like this... those reviews I trust- but only from those who I know don't have a habit of bashing everything and have similar taste to my own.

Although I generally agree with you (especially on Steam and Metacritic), the Nintendo Life user's scores are often pretty reasonable for the games with lots of votes. There are a certain amount of troll votes but they only nudge the final tally, not totally disrupt it. Even a game like Mario Kart World which got initially review bombed on this site with 'too expensive, 1/10' reviews ended up above 8/10 and will probably veer towards a more honest score over time as people add to it. Versus Metacritic where it is below 7/10 because of a much larger proportion of review bombing. Not perfect obviously, but a lot of games don't get review bombed here and have pretty reasonable scores indicative of how good the mostly honest people in this community feel a game is.

@JaxonH I think Buizel meant the average user score, not ones from known individuals.

@JaxonH @FishyS Yeah sorry I meant aggregate user scores, particularly those on Metacritic. Although I do agree with @FishyS that the scores on this site can at least be reasonable but eh...I'd rather get the perspectives of individuals I trust or professional reviewers.

Steam is an odd one because, while it is prone to review bombing like Metacritic, I do think it's worth looking out for mixed and negative reception as this is often an indicator of port quality rather than the quality of the game itself.

@Buizel The other weird thing about Steam is that insanely high scores don't always translate to a good game. Sometimes a game is rated high just for the lulz.

Plus bots have historically been a problem there.

I don’t know if you guys heard, but Sony knocked 100 bucks off the PS5 and absolutely CRUSHED the Switch 2 in Black Friday sales.

I do think this is the end of the line for Nintendo. I expect to hear of the Galaxy movie’s cancellation any day now, and I’m bummed they will be closing all of their theme parks.

It’s been real, all.

Agree that Metacritic user scores are utter rubbish. The last few times I've noticed a big discrepancy between critic and user scores there, it's because the user reviews are full of people complaining about Sweet Baby Inc., or "forced diversity", or whatever the most recent code word is for sexists, racists and homophobes who can't just straight up admit they don't want to play games with queer, POC, or non-fanservicey female characters.

Farewell, friend. It was good while it lasted 😔

For real though, hats of to Sony for the aggressive discounts and top shelf performance over BF. It's just over a single weekend so not really indicative of long term seasonal performance in Q3, but it does show price matters, and discounts work as incentives.

I still see the NSW2 as #1 console on Amazon, and ever since the $449.99 Mario Kart Bundle went live it's noticeably shot up the rankings.

Competition is good. Switch 2 forced Sony to drop PS5 down $100-150 to retain its relevance, and Sony's aggressive discounts forced Switch 2 to offer a $50 discount to keep its lead over the holiday season.

@Polvastiwhi
While I agree for the most part, simply name-calling and slandering everyone who takes issues with such things is an oversimplification and doesn't really represent everyone's viewpoints. There's definitely a contingent that scours games looking for any reason to get hysterical, but there are also many that grow irritated with games shoehorning and flaunting such things at every opportunity. Most have a policy of, "I really don't care what you do in your private life, but I don't want it plastered all throughout my video games like propaganda". And that's a perfectly valid viewpoint to have. They don't want pro-whatever flags in their games any more than you'd want anti-whatever flags in yours.

But the whole situation does muck up reviews, yet another reason aggregates are a fundamentally flawed metric.

@rallydefault
I heard... Might have to sell my Switch 2 over this debacle.

System Shock remake is out next week. And it has gyro aiming, and... also mouse aiming

This is a big deal. When Bioshock 1, 2 and Infinite released I played the heck out of them, but no gyro aiming ultimately led me to drop them. System Shock provides a similar experience, BUT, it's a really old game... until now, that is.

I refrained from purchasing the System Shock 1 and 2 remasters on Switch because I knew they were getting full remakes that were releasing on NSW2. At least, I'm pretty sure the second will be remade also. They've hinted at it, suggesting sales of the first will determine whether they do the second also.

And the first game's remake is right around the corner. Think a Bioshock-style game with Metroid Prime Remastered quality, and actually has proper gyro/mouse aiming.

That's day one. Question I have is, has anyone played the remaster of System Shock 2? Is it worth getting, or better to hold off for a likely remake? Does it have gyro, and is it getting a NSW2 version? Does it even need a NSW2 version? If it's 1080p 60fps and gyro aiming, I can live with that.

BTW, taking a momentary break from Metroid Prime 4, which I'm near the end and about to beat the game, to check out Skyrim NSW2 Edition. You haven't really christened in your console until you've played the latest Skyrim port on it. Everyone knows that. 😀

@JaxonH
I'll take your word for it then. Unless i can get Super Mario Party Jamboree(NS2) for half the price used with a physical copy. I'm itching to test out those mouse based mini-games, because there just isn't much else on NS2 outside of Welcome Tour that makes use of them in weird fun n' whacky ways that drift outside your typical 3rd or first person titles that just makes use of standard mouse aiming which we're all familiar with, besides the inclusion of HD Rumble 2 & Gyro.

@WaveBoy
I mean, if you're that interested then maybe it would be worthwhile for you. I certainly don't think it would be unreasonable to upgrade for $20 if you already own the game.

There just isn't that many new mini-gamea in the Bowser's TV mode, and not all of them even use the mouse. Cause some will instead rely on the camera or your voice.

The thing is, though, that the people upset about "forced diversity" spew their hatred and review-bomb sites even with games that have no specific "pro" or "anti" message. Queer people are significant minority in the world, women consist half of humanity, and the majority of people on this planet are not white. Having a game whose characters simply reflect these facts of life is not propaganda for anything, just like the Mario games are not propaganda for white power or heterosexuality, even though all the main human characters in them are white, and Mario is in love with Princess Peach. But for these people, if a game is not only for and about straight white men, somehow that's a political statement that needs to be suppressed. As if straight white men are the only group of people who play video games, and is if those gamers who are straight white men couldn't identify with a player character who's different from them.

@OmnitronVariant
Wow. Very well put, and managed to communicate it both delicately and respectfully.

Seems many don't understand that when you force things down others throats, insult them if they disagree and tell them to be quiet because of immutable characteristics, you galvanize opinion against you even further. That's never been a winning strategy if you want empathy and people to be won over to your side. And one day, I suspect, people will realize they damage their own cause with such tactics.

It's 2025. People are over being intimidated into aligning their opinions with others by such means. If you want others to take your side, you need to learn how to be persuasive. And those old hand tactics of the 2010's ain't it.

@JaxonH
I think what I wonder many times is: What exactly do you mean by "force things down others' throats"?

Like, if a character in a game is gay, and that comes up a few times during the plot, when does it become "forced" rather than... just part of the plot?

@rallydefault
No, I wouldn't, unless there was evidence of intent. It's not always clear when something is or isn't being included for reasons of legitimate artistic choice vs as propaganda to further an agenda. When I hear games feature [insert] parades, personally, I struggle to believe that is included for any other reason than propaganda. When Nexus Mods bans any mods removing a certain flag, I struggle to believe that's for any other reason than to push agenda and suppress those opposing it. Not saying you should feel that way too, just giving my perspective.

But I'm very reluctant to say everything is included for nebulous reasons. Not every black character is to check a box, for example. And some get so hypersensitive about the issue they make relentless accusations without any nuance or discernment.

But that doesn't mean it's never done with an agenda, and many take issue when they feel they are being propagandized. That's when I would say things are being shoved down people's throats. Again, that doesn't mean anytime a box is checked that's what's happening, or anytime an [insert] character is included that's what's happening. Nobody's saying that. At least, I'm not saying that. Which is why I answered your question with a "no". Simple inclusion doesn't qualify in my book. But there are legitimate times people feel it's happening. And I don't think I'm alone in saying the natural reaction is to reject that. It's hard to say for sure when it is or isn't happening, but I evaluate each game in context and make a judgement call based on my intuition and experience.

I can't definitively draw a line where I say, I think everything on this side is agenda and everything on that side is artistic choice- all I can say is there have been some games where I felt it was not artistic choice. Does that mean it's every time? No. Does that mean it's every game? No. But, it is some times. It is some games. And every person will see things differently- there may be something one person feels is agenda while another person doesn't. I don't know where that line should be drawn, but I think most agree the line does, at the very least, exist.

The number of games I'd definitively place in that category are actually extremely few, relatively speaking, but as Omni mentioned, the aggressive tendency of some to denigrate anyone voicing concern has radicalized many, and the end result is what we have today, where every game gets accused of being "woke" (I even saw someone accuse Metroid of this, I kid you not). Every game becomes contentious. Every [insert] character is assumed to be a result of nefarious intent. And that's what the original poster was complaining about, and look... I get it. But I don't think everyone who opposes agenda is like that. I'm not like that, and I oppose agenda. And I think you oppose it too. I mean, we might disagree on when we feel it's happening, but I don't think anyone likes feeling indoctrinated. And it could be about anything. Doesn't always have to be regarding orientation, race, gender, etc. Could be about specific economic systems, for example. Could be anything.

But it takes wisdom to discern when it is and isn't happening. And I'll be the first to admit, many lack that wisdom. And even when one does suspect it's happening, often times the extreme response just radicalizes people the other way. Gamers gotta start learning to voice their issues in a respectful, thoughtful manner and stop overreacting. I grow less patient by the day for people who overreact.

I hope that answers your question and provides clarity. That was a very long, thorough response but I feel such complex issues deserve more than just a hot Twitter take.

On one hand, most of the complaints about "woke" things I see online is just people letting their inner ugliness out because, like in 2017, it's more socially acceptable since the U.S. election to openly be a terrible person, and this effect ripples out worldwide thanks to the internet.

On the other hand... some material is clearly written in such a way that the writer's overt progressive ideology overrides artistic intent, and it particularly went a bit out of control starting in the mid-to-late 2010s. It's a hard thing to prove, definitively, because gay/non-white/trans/etc. characters have just as much right to be in media as more heteronormative ones. All I'll say is that, like pornography, 'you know it when you see it.'

A good example is that recent Dragon Age game. It's a world of swords and sorcery and dragons, but they introduce really cringy modern day gender identity stuff into it. Like a character whining about being non-binary. Or pretty much the entirety of that Doctor Who season with Jodie Whittaker, where it felt like a fun adventure show had been hijacked and repurposed for soulless social propaganda. Actually, the show still had that problem with Ncuti Gatwa's doctor as well, even though I really liked the energy of the actor himself.

There's countless examples, really. And I do agree that stuff like this is making enemies in nerd/geek spaces who might have otherwise been sympathetic, but are irritated at their favorite things being hijacked, repurposed, and eventually abandoned once the real fans are fully alienated by the changes and leave.

@Polvasti There are some varied reactions to your last message, but I just wanted to say, well said. Being more representative of the real world is not some conspiracy, it's just a reasonable thing to do if devs or companies choose to. The majority always likes to assume mentioning the minority is some bizarre political agenda but they somehow never acknowledge that perhaps not mentioning these same groups is just as much of a political statement. And in both cases, it's often just a choice; nothing inherently political about it.

Granted, as you said, some of these under-represented-in-video-game groups are actually the majority in numbers if not in power, so it's especially silly to say a game shouldn't try to reach out to these huge player bases. But even if a group is 'only' 5 or 10% of the real world population ... it's not true to say they are being artificially over-represented unless they are more than 5 or 10 percent of video game characters overall. They're simply being ... represented. Almost certainly still under-represented on average if not always in each individual game.

People like to associate themselves with the main character, but what's the harm in not always getting to be the main character and letting some other groups have that pleasure. Worst case, you can just not play a game; no review bombing required.

@JaxonH
Yea, I think “wisdom” is a good word to apply here. Unfortunately, that’s exactly what is lacking in click-bait reactionary takes on this stuff.

@Ralizah
I think the “ideology over artistry” is also a good point.

So you guys think it becomes detrimental to the art form as a whole if this sort of thing continues to happen? Like, people should be able to say what they want, but we aren’t forced to buy it. But its presence in the media form can have a bad effect overall?

Over the years, more and more I strive to steer my views to the center, and I typically know when I'm on the right track when neither extreme on any given issue jumps to claim me as their own. When I ruffle feathers on both sides, at least a little bit, that's when I know I'm in a pretty good place.

Took me quite a while and a good bit of life experience to moderate my positions and realize just how easy it is to fall into an ideological trap. And even though I'm not perfect, I now take an approach of not marrying myself to any specific opinion, and try to always maintain a stance of being open to being persuaded otherwise if a convincing argument were presented.