Topic: Nintendo Switch 2

@rallydefault It will definitely be sold separately (expensive, and with limited production).
The vast majority of the PlayStation audience has already abandoned physical games (and Sony is very happy about that).

Weird way to use the term "original" considering it's a version that plays entirely differently from both the original and the new remake, but you do you!

@charliecarrot
I wasn't concerned about differentiating between those versions. My main point was that they were not the new remakes.

Preaching to the choir here. But also this is kinda what I'm doing currently with Switch covering the hybrid and Nintendo side while everything else is largely covered by deck. Which is why I'm considering not even bothering trying to make the Steam Deck be a hybrid and, instead maybe my next desktop upgrade I just fashion myself a PC running Steam OS or something similar and having it permanently attached to the TV. With the Deck then being purely portable

@rallydefault If I had to guess, there will be an external drive that you can purchase separately... but it's only for BC with physical PS5 and PS4 games, with PS6 games being digital only.

The kicker is that the drive used on the PS5 Slim/Pro won't be compatible, you'll have to buy the new one for PS6.

@JaxonH Appreciate you explaining your intentions. This is a public forum, and I noticed something that could be understood by others as misinformation, so my intention was only to clear that up for any readers, not to take away from the point you were making. Cheers ✌️

@IceClimbers
The kicker is that the drive used on the PS5 Slim/Pro won't be compatible, you'll have to buy the new one for PS6.

That's a given. I do actually think there will be physical PS6 games (even though they're not really physical games and haven't been since the PS3- they're digital games with disc as DRM that install from the disc and internet... still better than key carts but essentially the same thing at the end of the day, they work just like PC install discs which I never really considered a real physical game that played from the disc/cart). Reason being, it amounts to retail presence. And I think maintaining retail presence remains an important aspect of their strategy. Not to mention, selling a $100 disc drive is more profit in their pocket.

But, I could be wrong. We'll see, I guess.

@skywake
That's a good way to do it. That's actually how I had everything set up for a while. But even with a separate PC, switching back and forth STILL carries the settings across, so you still have to change the resolution and graphical settings every time. The only real solution is to run the games via a USB-C dock into the TV and keep the same settings as when playing handheld... meaning 720p for TV play. It sucks.

I also got sick of how loud my PC is. The fans are insanely noisy. And I got sick of the fact so many games either didnt allow gyro to map to mouse, or didn't allow it simultaneously with the controller, meaning when you move the cursor via gyro the controller's right stick is disabled, and I need both at the same time for proper gyro aiming.

In the end I decided Steamdeck is best as solely a handheld device. And I hate strictly being handheld, just as I hate strictly being on the TV. I love them both, I just hate being restricted to one or the other. Not to say I regret my Deck purchase. I'm 100% done with PC gaming in terms of a full PC, but Deck allows me to access a fair size of my Steam library without the drawbacks of the PC. And if I'm going to be restricted to TV or handheld, I'd much rather it be handheld, since I can play at home or anywhere else.

I cant stand TV only though. Its why Im done with PS and Xbox. And Idk what I'll do if Nintendo ever stops making hybrids. But I dont think they will- they'll never stop making portables and if you're making a portable, it only adds value to include a dock with USB-C out. So I don't see Nintendo ever deviating from the hybrid approach moving forward.

I totally get the appeal for others though. At least PC allows a hybrid approach. Sure, it may cost a ton and require changing settings switching back and forth, but at least it's doable and at least you can map gyro for many games. Both of which are non-negotiable for me and hence why other consoles no longer interest me.

I wish PS would just make a hybrid- I can't say Im interested in their 1st party anymore- with a few exceptions here and there, it mostly feels like a reskinning of the same thing over and over imo, and I'm losing count of how many of their games feature lesbians. It was one thing when it was just the Last of Us expansion but now its becoming a trend which kinda turns me off- that may float the boat for others but, it doesn't float mine. Wolverine's violence turns me off as well. It's why I don't play modern Mortal Kombat. I just don't like gratuitous gore. I'd like to see more games like Astrobot and Shadow of the Colossus, with the occasional Uncharted.

A PS hybrid could be good for 3rd party games that don't release on NSW2, for whatever reason. My concern would be lack of gyro aiming though. Most 3rd party games on NSW2 include it (Cyberpunk, Hogwarts Legacy, Star Wars Outlaws) but not on PS. And without gyro, I have no interest.

Steamdeck 2 will be interesting. I do think NSW2 will benefit from a PS handheld alongside PC handhelds. The more lesser powered devices there are, the more incentive devs have to scale their games to run among that group of platforms.

I'm actually getting legit excited for Pokemon this week.

I'm not a big Pokemon fan by any means, but I've enjoyed a few of the games over the years. I really liked how Arceus freshened up the combat, and this one looks like it makes the combat even more dynamic and real time action-oriented.

Should be super fun! (Just need to finish Trails in the Sky in the next couple days lol - I think I've very close, but I also don't want that game to end.)

@rallydefault
Im waiting for the imminent update for Trails in the Sky adding a performance and graphics mode. Since currently the NSW2 version doesnt hold 60

If Pokémon Legends Z-A has gyro aiming for throwing Pokeballs like Arceus I'm in. I wish they kept the awesome HD Rumble Let's Go had. No idea why they add cool new features then dont carry them forward in future games.

Brand New Joycon 2 Set $70 eBay

Brand New Pro Controller 2 $75 eBay

Both from sellers with 100% feedback ratings from hundreds of transactions.

Metaphor ReFantazio and P4R on Switch 2 is a given, I think. At 30fps, no doubt, but they're coming. Atlus is nothing if not supportive of Nintendo's hardware.

@Ralizah
As a long time handheld gamer I've accepted the fact you cant have your cake and eat it too. 30fps is the most common compromise made to squeeze big games running on power consoles onto a 10W tablet hybrid. Obviously I prefer 60 as does any gamer, but I am perfectly fine with a stable 30 if the tradeoff provides a quality hybrid handheld experience. Especially for RPGs.

I remember not long ago the argument was fast paced competitive shooters needed 60, but nowadays Ive seen a rise in elitism where even turn based RPGs are demanded to be 60, brashly mocking and deriding any portable title that doesnt offer 60, and I just cant get on board with that.

Its not that I dont see that perspective and understand where people are coming from. I'd definitely prefer 60 whenever possible. But I also understand you cant expect visual and feature parity with current gen power consoles and expect 60fps. In fact, you cant even expect it for many AAA PS4 ports. Way I see it is, if PS4 couldn't run it at 60, I don't expect 60. Now. If a game ran at 60 on PS4, and the NSW2 version is not a port of the PS5 version (like FC26, NBA 2K26, etc), but a port of the PS4 version, yet it only runs at 30, then I will say ok, they should have done better (if it's stable I will still likely pick up the game though- I can be displeased with an aspect of a game without it being an automatic dealbreaker). Where I draw the line is uncapped framerates that cant hold 60 yet dont offer a capped 30 mode. That drives me crazy.

But ya, I saw criticisms of Switch 2 start with "it's too weak to run PS5 games" evolve into "well ok, fine, it can run PS5 games but they're at an unplayable 30". And I think, "unplayable"? No! Tell me how many people skipped Bloodborne for being 30fps? How many skipped Monster Hunter World for being 30fps? Seems its never a deal breaker when its a game they want to play on their system, but as soon as its a Switch 2 game, where compromises are expected, suddenly its a deal breaker. I remember Elden Ring dropping down to 45fps as it couldn't hold a stable 60, yet it didnt stop people from playing it. But God forbid a Switch 2 game not hold a stable 60... you'll see all manner of mockery and laughing and finger pointing, shouting from the rooftops how they could never play such crap.

I used to not be able to differentiate between 30 and 60. Nowadays I can easily tell. For the most part. Some 30fps games are so rock solid stable with smart tricks and techniques leveraged to make it feel even more smooth than you'd normally expect, to the point Ive mistaken some games for being 60 when they're 30. Which to me says a game doesnt need to be 60. I sure as heck want them to be whenever possible, make no mistake, but as long as motion feels smooth and its a stable flat line without fluctuations, I can absolutely enjoy such a game.

Monster Hunter Rise- I put 800+ hours into that game at 30fps. Cyberpunk 2077, Hogwarts Legacy, Star Wars Outlaws... all 30fps and are perfectly playable to me. I played Elden Ring on Steamdeck at 30fps. And if it's able to achieve a stable 30 on NSW2, I'm all over it. Red Dead Redemption 2 will certainly be 30 on Switch 2. Just like it was on PS4 and Xbox One. Nobody refused to play the game on those systems, but just watch how many come out the woodwork and claim it's "unplayable" at 30 when the NSW2 version drops.

60fps elitism has become a club which console warriors use to cudgel others over the head with. When a game is 30 on their platform they have a reasonable response- hey, I wish it were 60 but its fine. It's still perfectly enjoyable at 30. But as soon as that same game hits NSW2 at 30, oh noooow it's unplayable. Oh noooow it's a laughing stock to be jeered and mocked.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

I see Persona 3 Reload at 30fps, and think ok, what did it run at on PS4? You guessed it... 30fps. Yet somehow Switch 2 gamers get up in arms that its 30fps on Switch 2? Hello, McFly! Anyone home! The NSW2 is NOT A PS5!!! Its a portable PS4! If a game ran at 30 on PS4, its almost certainly going to run at 30 on NSW2. But no. Ppl have convinced themselves Switch 2 should be able to achieve parity with PS5, a console that's a full generational leap beyond the NSW2 (and theres nothing shameful about that- portables have always remained a generation behind power consoles). I just dont get it.

Anyone expecting PS5 performance for ports rather than approximate parity with PS4-PS4 Pro need their expectations recalibrated. And if 30fps is a dealbreaker for someone, then a 10W hybrid handheld should never have been under their consideration. Cause it simply cannot offer the same experience you get on a power console with a massive GPU and CPU drawing hundreds of watts electricity from an outlet.

Persona 5 Royal was just fine at 30fps on NSW1 (a PS3 portable) and Persona 3 Reloaded is just fine at 30fps on NSW2 (a PS4 Portable). Though it should be noted that P5R can actually run at 60fps on a modded Switch without overclocking, and at 720p handheld. They likely capped at 540p 30fps for battery life. Which imo was smart (though personally Id have output 720p 30fps since it still gets 4+ hours battery life on the OLED that way).

Yeah I agree with so many things you said. It feels weird that people expect things to be 60fps a lot of times? Like... hello? If you want higher than that you can shell out nearly double price for a better handheld I suppose, but that's... nearly double the price.

I think oftentimes people just forget it's a handheld you can dock. It's not a tethered console you can turn into a handheld. So they expect it to be a portable ps5 pro level despite it also on 450$ price level, not counting any ***** things happening in the world cough, cough

Like Elden Ring got a new video of it playing and it's much smoother on 30fps, and as you can guess, a lot of people didn't really share it around (remember when it was jumpy and EVERYWHERE it got shared around and get news and headlines everywhere? I don't really see any news going "oh oops, seems beta is just a beta after all and the game runs smoother now after some time in the oven"). But because it's 30fps... you can guess it, but there's a lot of people suddenly going "i-it's unplayable on 30fps for elden ring!!"

So yeah, it's annoying to have people act like that lol

The idea that a turn-based RPG (or any non-action game really) should run at 60 fps, and that 30 fps is not good enough for some people is so weird to me. If the game is not about fast reaction times, what do you need those extra frames for? Do these same people also think it's disappointing how most movies run at 24 fps and that they should rather do 48 fps, like those Peter Jackson Hobbit movies did?

@Polvasti
I do think there's a difference between movies and games. Namely, games framerates correlate to "feel" whereas movies youre just watching. And, at least for uncapped framerates, the fluctuations are really noticeable, while movies are consistent. Not that you were talking about uncapped framerates. I understand you were strictly referring to 30 vs 60.

And ya, I agree with you about that. It wasn't long ago ppl would say "fast paced games would need 60", a notion which, even then, I didnt entirely agree with. I played DOOM Eternal at 30fps and it felt smooth as butter, tbh. And that's as fast as it gets, save racing games.

But even racing games, I've played plenty that were 30fps and were fine. Even Team Sonic Racing on PS4 fluctuated all over the place, while the Switch version was capped at 30, and it felt fine on Switch.

I do think fighting games is one genre where 60fps really needs to be standard. But even then I have played a fighter or two that was 30fps and had no issues.

Platformers are another genre where I think there's a good argument for 60. But yet again, I've played plenty of 30fps platformers without issue. Kirby and the Forgotten Land and Yooka-Replaylee come to mind. Yes, Kirby is definitely better now in 60 frames. And Yooka-Replaylee will definitely be superior if they can patch in 60. No doubt. But even at 30 they play fine. Theyre still fun. Gameplay isn't really impacted.

I mean, I get it. 60fps is preferred. Still, the insistence upon 60 has become so exaggerated that even turn based RPGs are being regarded as "needing 60". And I'm like, huh? I dont agree with that.

Very few games I've played at 30fps actually had their gameplay impacted as a result. Unstable, uncapped framerate? Yes, that has impacted gameplay for me. Many times. But 30? I cant think of anything I've played where gameplay was noticeably affected. Games feel better in 60 frames, but there's a difference between gameplay being affected and feeling better/looking smoother.

@JaxonH @darkfenrir People should always have expectations relative to the hardware. Platforms running on batteries and mobile chip sets will obviously never have performance comparative to stationary ones like a PS5.

Unfortunately, with consoles, you're at the mercy of the developers when it comes to optimization and choices regarding performance. And the Switch 2, like the original, is running at lower clock speeds undocked to preserve battery life. Add in the 1080p screen, and suddenly you're not about to run games nearly as smoothly on it as you would on, say, a Steam Deck, which is able to run something like Persona 3 Reload at 60fps consistently without the ray traced reflections, versus 30 with choppy frame pacing on Switch 2.

This is before even factoring in the PC benefits you get with modding on SD.

This is why, for me, the Switch 2, outside of exclusives and miracle ports like SW Outlaws and Cyberpunk, won't be the hybrid gaming titan that the Switch 1 was.

Thankfully, there's no better publisher than Nintendo when it comes to exclusives, so I'm still pretty happy with it overall.

@Ralizah
Of course it all depends on hardware, and dev time devoted. Personally I don't care about mods, and I run all games at 30fps on Steamdeck anyways to avoid 2 hour battery life. So for me theres only disadvantage.

Not that NSW2 has great battery life, but thanks to its flat shape and light weight, I was able to remedy this with a magnetic adhesive ring and the Genki portable magnetic battery, which even when attached yields a total weight 10g less than the original stock Steamdeck out of the box.

But at the end of the day, that's what makes NSW2 so great. Each person can use it as much or little as they want, in whatever way suits them best. Maybe for some thats just exclusives. For others (like myself) it's 3rd party games gyro, 3rd party that don't rely on aiming and 1st party, heck there may be some who buy it for one game and that's it. But whatever the use case, the common denominator is everyone is playing it and enjoying it.

Yea, the battery thing is not a deal for me because even though I use it handheld a lot, I don’t travel with it. I’m just at home with it. So… problem avoided mostly.

It seems Assassin's Creed Shadows is releasing December 5th according to a new retailer listing. After Star Wars Outlaws, and how incredible that game looks and runs (which runs at like 10 fps on Steamdeck, something I should have mentioned previously as that system doesnt always have advantage), I expect this game to also look fantastic and run at a mostly stable 30fps. And it'll likely get post-release updates like Star Wars improving visuals and performance even further. Which, the game isnt exactly great on Deck either from what I saw in videos- struggles to maintain 30 especially in towns with a bunch of people (same issue Witcher 3 had on Switch).

I wouldn't have played the game on other platforms tbh, but if a competent version releases on Switch that's in a similar state to Star Wars, I'll definitely give it a shot. I do like the dual aspect of one protagonist being combat focused and one being stealth focused. Cause I used to do stealth in Black Flag but then turn into Rambo once detected 😀 Same for Splinter Cell Blacklist.

Oh, wanted to bring up the Pokémon leaks. I saw some screenshots demoing Gamefreak's brand new engine, and I was taken aback by how good the visuals were for a Pokémon game. If the Gen 10 Pokémon actually looks as good as those screenshots, I think we're finally going to have the Pokémon we've been waiting for. Seems this dusty old 3DS era engine is mostly responsible for holding the series back. I do think they need to make a massive leap with animations though. One of the biggest aspects of a game that makes it feel modern, to me, is fluid animations. Still, even just improving the visuals to this level would be a massive W