Topic: Nintendo Switch 2

The idea that a turn-based RPG (or any non-action game really) should run at 60 fps, and that 30 fps is not good enough for some people is so weird to me. If the game is not about fast reaction times, what do you need those extra frames for? Do these same people also think it's disappointing how most movies run at 24 fps and that they should rather do 48 fps, like those Peter Jackson Hobbit movies did?

@Polvasti
I do think there's a difference between movies and games. Namely, games framerates correlate to "feel" whereas movies youre just watching. And, at least for uncapped framerates, the fluctuations are really noticeable, while movies are consistent. Not that you were talking about uncapped framerates. I understand you were strictly referring to 30 vs 60.

And ya, I agree with you about that. It wasn't long ago ppl would say "fast paced games would need 60", a notion which, even then, I didnt entirely agree with. I played DOOM Eternal at 30fps and it felt smooth as butter, tbh. And that's as fast as it gets, save racing games.

But even racing games, I've played plenty that were 30fps and were fine. Even Team Sonic Racing on PS4 fluctuated all over the place, while the Switch version was capped at 30, and it felt fine on Switch.

I do think fighting games is one genre where 60fps really needs to be standard. But even then I have played a fighter or two that was 30fps and had no issues.

Platformers are another genre where I think there's a good argument for 60. But yet again, I've played plenty of 30fps platformers without issue. Kirby and the Forgotten Land and Yooka-Replaylee come to mind. Yes, Kirby is definitely better now in 60 frames. And Yooka-Replaylee will definitely be superior if they can patch in 60. No doubt. But even at 30 they play fine. Theyre still fun. Gameplay isn't really impacted.

I mean, I get it. 60fps is preferred. Still, the insistence upon 60 has become so exaggerated that even turn based RPGs are being regarded as "needing 60". And I'm like, huh? I dont agree with that.

Very few games I've played at 30fps actually had their gameplay impacted as a result. Unstable, uncapped framerate? Yes, that has impacted gameplay for me. Many times. But 30? I cant think of anything I've played where gameplay was noticeably affected. Games feel better in 60 frames, but there's a difference between gameplay being affected and feeling better/looking smoother.

@JaxonH @darkfenrir People should always have expectations relative to the hardware. Platforms running on batteries and mobile chip sets will obviously never have performance comparative to stationary ones like a PS5.

Unfortunately, with consoles, you're at the mercy of the developers when it comes to optimization and choices regarding performance. And the Switch 2, like the original, is running at lower clock speeds undocked to preserve battery life. Add in the 1080p screen, and suddenly you're not about to run games nearly as smoothly on it as you would on, say, a Steam Deck, which is able to run something like Persona 3 Reload at 60fps consistently without the ray traced reflections, versus 30 with choppy frame pacing on Switch 2.

This is before even factoring in the PC benefits you get with modding on SD.

This is why, for me, the Switch 2, outside of exclusives and miracle ports like SW Outlaws and Cyberpunk, won't be the hybrid gaming titan that the Switch 1 was.

Thankfully, there's no better publisher than Nintendo when it comes to exclusives, so I'm still pretty happy with it overall.

@Ralizah
Of course it all depends on hardware, and dev time devoted. Personally I don't care about mods, and I run all games at 30fps on Steamdeck anyways to avoid 2 hour battery life. So for me theres only disadvantage.

Not that NSW2 has great battery life, but thanks to its flat shape and light weight, I was able to remedy this with a magnetic adhesive ring and the Genki portable magnetic battery, which even when attached yields a total weight 10g less than the original stock Steamdeck out of the box.

But at the end of the day, that's what makes NSW2 so great. Each person can use it as much or little as they want, in whatever way suits them best. Maybe for some thats just exclusives. For others (like myself) it's 3rd party games gyro, 3rd party that don't rely on aiming and 1st party, heck there may be some who buy it for one game and that's it. But whatever the use case, the common denominator is everyone is playing it and enjoying it.

Yea, the battery thing is not a deal for me because even though I use it handheld a lot, I don’t travel with it. I’m just at home with it. So… problem avoided mostly.

It seems Assassin's Creed Shadows is releasing December 5th according to a new retailer listing. After Star Wars Outlaws, and how incredible that game looks and runs (which runs at like 10 fps on Steamdeck, something I should have mentioned previously as that system doesnt always have advantage), I expect this game to also look fantastic and run at a mostly stable 30fps. And it'll likely get post-release updates like Star Wars improving visuals and performance even further. Which, the game isnt exactly great on Deck either from what I saw in videos- struggles to maintain 30 especially in towns with a bunch of people (same issue Witcher 3 had on Switch).

I wouldn't have played the game on other platforms tbh, but if a competent version releases on Switch that's in a similar state to Star Wars, I'll definitely give it a shot. I do like the dual aspect of one protagonist being combat focused and one being stealth focused. Cause I used to do stealth in Black Flag but then turn into Rambo once detected 😀 Same for Splinter Cell Blacklist.

Oh, wanted to bring up the Pokémon leaks. I saw some screenshots demoing Gamefreak's brand new engine, and I was taken aback by how good the visuals were for a Pokémon game. If the Gen 10 Pokémon actually looks as good as those screenshots, I think we're finally going to have the Pokémon we've been waiting for. Seems this dusty old 3DS era engine is mostly responsible for holding the series back. I do think they need to make a massive leap with animations though. One of the biggest aspects of a game that makes it feel modern, to me, is fluid animations. Still, even just improving the visuals to this level would be a massive W

@rallydefault
The extra USB-C port at the top does make it a lot more convenient to charge while playing. And I too play handheld at home a lot and can charge easily. But I just like not having cords attached if possible. The Satisfye NSW1 case is actually amazing for NSW2 with Jsaux joycon grips attached, and has a little cubby beneath where the system lies thats the perfect size for storing the Genki magnetic battery, an official charger and USB-C cable and a joycon mouse rail (with wrist strap cut off, of course- that strap is annoying).

@JaxonH, those Pokémon pictures look awesome. And I say that as someone who also looks the current Pokémon art style, lol 🤣. Also like that Nemona is there in that first picture, she's one of my favorite newer Pokémon characters.

@JaxonH
Ah, I'm pretty much a dock charger exclusively. I've only ever plugged in my Lite.

@rallydefault
I'm actually mostly a dock charger myself. But sometimes I do toss the battery on. It's easy to just dock when battery is low though and keep going. One of the benefits of being hybrid.

I just received a cradle charger for one Pro Controller and two Joycon 2. Which is perfect for me since I never bought a 2nd Pro Controller like I did for Switch, and never got a 3rd pair of Joycon like I did for Switch. Just two pairs is plenty. One stays connected to the NSW2 with Jsaux grips, the other is used for split joycon play when docked. And I do have a charge grip in case I ever need a 2nd "Pro Controller". It has the rear GL/GR buttons like the Pro Controller and is actually rather comfortable. Much better value buying the charge grip to use with the extra joycon as opposed to buying a 2nd Pro Controller, imo.

I did take the stock Joycon Grip that doesnt charge or have GL/GR, and I disassembled it by taking the wings off of it so it's just a slab. That fits into my case, and if I play tabletop I can take the Jsaux grip joycon and slap them into the sides of the grip for a makeshift Pro Controller on the go. It's not as nice as the full charge grip but the full grip can't also fit into the case, so it's a good solution I think.

I love little macgyver solutions for Switch 2. Be it the magnetic ring and battery, the 3D printed microSD holder I adhered to the back of NSW2, the disassembled Joycon grip to allow the Jsaux grip Joycon to fit into the sides, the 3D printed mouse accessory (recently got a 3rd party one that's almost identical to my 3D printed one but has a raised tab for the thumb to grip if lifting the mouse off the surface, and has 4 square lights for P1-P4 that illuminates from the Joycon which is a nice touch), the 8"x10" firm mousepad, even the stock Joycon 2 mouse rails with the strap cut off.

It's crazy how much you can improve your experience with relatively cheap fixes and creative solutions. It's actually kind of fun coming up with all these little add-ons and accessories to enhance the experience.

This is unrelated but, I'm really impressed with the built in 3D audio on the NSW2. I was playing Mario Kart World the other day and heard the audio panning around me in handheld mode and was like woah, that sounds impressive! It's nice we can plug in headphones/earbuds to both the system and the pro controller (wish the charge grip also had an audio jack, that's my only issue with it). Crazy the Switch 1 Pro Controller didn't include one.

PSA
Hogwarts Legacy (NSW1) is on sale for $11.99. You can then upgrade to the NSW2 version for $10

This means you can buy the NSW2 version for $21.99. And it's a terrific port. Includes gyro aiming, mouse aiming, and you can seamlessly swap back and forth between mouse and gyro like in Metroid Prime 4.

@ShieldHero
Definitely.

There's no guarantee the next Pokemon will look that good, but given the fact it'll be running on a brand new engine, finally abandoning that crusty old 3DS era engine, and the fact it'll be developed for a system that's a generational leap beyond NSW1, it's gotta at least be a notable improvement from Legends Z-A.

I doubt it will be that good and it's more likely that this is their... Like concept kind of thing? Overall they do slowly improves but they are doing it slowly haha. Especially since ZA ran smooth in switch 1

@JaxonH I've had a few folks suggest taht one to me, maybe I'll spring for it finally!
Looks In Wallet
...I take that back.

@darkfenrir
There was a concept shot but the underwater is actually in-engine, so that gives us a good idea of what to actually expect.

Their small improvements, imo, boil down to being restricted by their dusty old 3DS engine they somehow jerry rigged to run open world HD games. The fact Gen 10 will finally be using a brand new, modern engine designed for open worlds and HD visuals and modern development techniques, combined with the fact it's being developed ground up for Switch 2 instead of Switch 1, a full generational leap in power, means even if it doesn't quite live up to the in-engine demo, it'll still be leaps and bounds beyond what we've seen up through Legends Z-A.

That doesnt mean every single nitpick or issue fans have will be addressed in the next game, but I do think it'll represent the biggest leap forward we've seen yet. And will finally present us with a competent game with regard to visual fidelity. It likely wont be the best looking game on NSW2, but if it even reaches Xenoblade X or Monster Hunter Rise levels of visuals I'll be happy.

I'm all digital with x3 1TB micro SD express cards, one of which is full of NSW1 games and the other two are for NSW2 games. Currently I only need one of them but once it fills up I'll split between exclusives and multiplats.

In order to save space, I was considering archiving Cyberpunk 2077 and opening my physical version (I still double dip with physical if and only if the game is on cart, which makes it fairly cheap and simple to collect games on NSW2), then popping in the cartridge and permanently leaving it inserted to save 60+ GB.

But before doing so I investigated load time differences. For Mario Kart, it seems internal storage is 15 seconds, microSD express is 16 seconds, while cartridge is 24 seconds. That's for the initial load. In game, internal storage is 7 seconds, microSD express is 8 seconds, and cartridge is 12 seconds. So it seems, at least for Mario Kart World, using a cartridge is 50% slower.

For Cyberpunk, however, the initial load was 23 seconds for both internal storage and microSD express, and 29 seconds for cartridge. Which is only 25% slower... half the percentage of loading time added in Mario Kart on cartridge.

I think I can deal with 6 extra seconds in exchange for 60 extra gigabytes. It's like making a swap and getting 10GB additional storage for every 1 second of load time added. My concern is, do textures and assets load in faster on internal storage to the extent that pop-in becomes more noticeable running from a cartridge? That's a test I haven't seen anyone do yet.

I wish one of these analysts or Youtubers would compare games running on internal storage or microSD express to running on cartridge, and check both load time deltas, framerates, and texture/asset pop-in. After all, there's not that many on-cart games to check. Mainly Cyberpunk, Daemon X Machina and Fantasy Life i would need to be tested, followed by Yooka-Replaylee and Sonic Racing Crossworlds. I dont think 1st party really needs the test.

Pokemon Legends Z-A

Never been a Pokemon fan. Tried every game since X/Y and never stuck with any of them. Arceus came close but the low res and framerate eventually turned me off.

Legends Z-A... this game has its hooks in me. The battle system is like Xenoblade 3, in a way. You can crouch, run and dodge roll which helps catching and battling Pokemon feel a lot more engaging. And the mission structure suits it well. Clear cut objectives as well as bonus rewards for completing certain goals, like catch 5 Pokemon, catch 10 Pokemon, catch 5 Normal Types, etc. You'll get a new TM or something each time.

They also have a lot of secrets and exploration. Sections blocked off by rocks, so once you get the move to smash rocks you can break through, then you may be blocked off by a pond, but find a ladder up to a roof, and make your way across the roof ledge and drop down on the other side. Stuff like that. It makes the city feel like a huge maze of secrets. And theres Pokeballs and sparkling items on the ground everywhere.

Idk how Pokemon fans will receive it, but as a lukewarm casual fan I have to say... I'm loving it so far.

@JaxonH
Good to hear. I'm pretty much a "lukewarm casual fan" too lol

@rallydefault
There's obvious shortcomings, which if you weren't aware of you certainly will be when social media is done with you lol. The visuals arent the best and theres no voice acting. But honestly... I think the game looks decent. The fact it's a nice and crisp resolution (4k docked, 1080p handheld) and a smooth 60fps helps immensely. It's kind of wild playing a new Pokemon that's not dropping resolution to 540p and stuttering at 15fps. So even if the visuals are that of a AA game, just being sharp and running smoothly makes a huge difference in the experience.

And it does feel a bit more "modern" in how the player controls than past games. Less rigid, I would say. The sprinting, dodge rolling and crouching animations all seem better than in the past (I think you could do all that in Arceus... maybe not, I can't remember). Theyre making marginal improvements every time, and after playing a bit of Scarlet recently on NSW2 (where it actually looks sharp and runs at 60), this game is noticeably more modern in feel.

I do think it'll be the next Pokemon that really takes us to where we want the series to be (although I suspect they'll still omit voice acting). But this is a fun game. Ive seen some purists dunking on it because of the battle system- ppl who want traditional turn based. But I think this is way more engaging.

The Legends games are definitely the direction I want to see the series go.

@Hapless, the new Digimon game does look intriguing. I would like a Switch 2 release of that one as well, I'd probably try it out eventually.