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Topic: Nintendo slaps Metroid 2 remake and 500-plus fangames with takedown orders

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Bolt_Strike

shaneoh wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

You have a funny definition of quality.

Enjoyable, reasonably bug free, yes I can see how my definition of quality may seem alien.

Enjoyable it is not and it takes more than that to make a quality experience. Consistent but progressive gameplay, level design appropriate for said gameplay, and plenty of content are also factors, and Federation Force is lacking in the first two (not as sure about the third).

In general Nintendo's been having a lot of problems coming up with constructive gameplay changes this gen, most games either change almost nothing, add some gimmick no one wanted, or throw everything out the window for a dumbed down playstyle.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

shaneoh

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Enjoyable it is not

Sez you

Bolt_Strike wrote:

and it takes more than that to make a quality experience.

Hence the reasonably bug free part

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Consistent but progressive gameplay, level design appropriate for said gameplay, and plenty of content are also factors, and Federation Force is lacking in the first two (not as sure about the third).

Considering the gameplay is along the lines of Counter Strike, Unreal Tournament and Call of Duty, the progressiveness lies within the player. As I've found the difficulty of each level increasing in both enemy and obstacles, the second point is certainly there.

Cranky Kong sums it up perfectly:
Untitled

Bolt_Strike wrote:

add some gimmick I didn't want

Fixed that for you

Bolt_Strike wrote:

or throw everything out the window for a dumbed down playstyle.

Doesn't seem to have done the Fallout, Elder Scrolls or Deus Ex games any harm

Edited on by shaneoh

The Greatest love story ever, Rosie Love (part 33 done)
The collective noun for a group of lunatics is a forum. A forum of lunatics.
I'm belligerent, you were warned.

LzWinky

Bolt_Strike wrote:

You have a funny definition of quality.

But it's his definition of quality, since the word is mostly subjective.

And as he said, Nintendo is usually associated with non-rushed complete games that aren't filled with bugs and microtransactions and other things gamers complain about (but still pay for...for some reason).

Current games: Everything on Switch

Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky

Bolt_Strike

shaneoh wrote:

Hence the reasonably bug free part

Still takes more than that.

shaneoh wrote:

Considering the gameplay is along the lines of Counter Strike, Unreal Tournament and Call of Duty, the progressiveness lies within the player. As I've found the difficulty of each level increasing in both enemy and obstacles, the second point is certainly there.

Wrong kind of progressiveness. I mean the evolution of the gameplay mechanics and formula. The introduction of a new mechanic that allows the game to do more than it could before. A new gameplay element or focus that complements what the existing formula already did. A clever use for new hardware that enhances the gameplay. Something along those lines. We've seen far too little of that this generation, the only games that really fit that are A Link Between Worlds, Kirby Planet Robobot, and Breath of the Wild.

shaneoh wrote:

Fixed that for you

Not really, as there are many more people than me that have rejected those gimmicks.

shaneoh wrote:

Doesn't seem to have done the Fallout, Elder Scrolls or Deus Ex games any harm

Because those games didn't radically alter their gameplay style and throw out the elements that defined them. Metroid did. And again, series that do that tend to go downhill. Look at what happened to platforming mascots like Spyro and Crash or Resident Evil when they tried to follow popular trends, those series declined by trying to be something they're not.

TheLZdragon wrote:

And as he said, Nintendo is usually associated with non-rushed complete games that aren't filled with bugs and microtransactions and other things gamers complain about (but still pay for...for some reason).

Rehashing is another one of those things and Nintendo's succumbed to that.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

shaneoh

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Still takes more than that.

Enjoyable and bug free, what more could a person possibly want from a game?

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Wrong kind of progressiveness. I mean the evolution of the gameplay mechanics and formula. The introduction of a new mechanic that allows the game to do more than it could before. A new gameplay element or focus that complements what the existing formula already did. A clever use for new hardware that enhances the gameplay. Something along those lines. We've seen far too little of that this generation, the only games that really fit that are A Link Between Worlds, Kirby Planet Robobot, and Breath of the Wild.

It features the exact same progressiveness as those other games I've mentioned, why does that mean that FF is a bad game when those others could be considered good?

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Not really, as there are many more people than me that have rejected those gimmicks.

And many that have accepted those gimmicks, to say "no one" wanted them is false.

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Because those games didn't radically alter their gameplay style and throw out the elements that defined them. Metroid did. And again, series that do that tend to go downhill. Look at what happened to platforming mascots like Spyro and Crash or Resident Evil when they tried to follow popular trends, those series declined by trying to be something they're not.

In TES skills are on the decline (Daggerfall: 45, Morrowind: 27, Oblivion: 21, Skyrim: 18)
Fallout is even worse, it goes from a turn based RPG, to first/third person shooter/RPG mix and 4 even does away with skills and just has perks.
Deus Ex goes from the devs thinking of practically everything the player could conceivably do in a situation to "Here's a boss, you can't avoid him, kill him."

TheLZdragon wrote:

And as he said, Nintendo is usually associated with non-rushed complete games that aren't filled with bugs and microtransactions and other things gamers complain about (but still pay for...for some reason).

Right. Skyrim is a bug riddled mess, why anyone could think it was a quality game is beyond me. At least PC players have some avenue with which to fix some of those bugs, but they really shouldn't have to.

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Rehashing is another one of those things and Nintendo's succumbed to that.

Along with many of the other major developers

The Greatest love story ever, Rosie Love (part 33 done)
The collective noun for a group of lunatics is a forum. A forum of lunatics.
I'm belligerent, you were warned.

Bolt_Strike

shaneoh wrote:

Enjoyable and bug free, what more could a person possibly want from a game?

Well designed and creative for starters.

shaneoh wrote:

It features the exact same progressiveness as those other games I've mentioned, why does that mean that FF is a bad game when those others could be considered good?

Again, because FF throw out everything that defines Metroid while the others didn't.

shaneoh wrote:

In TES skills are on the decline (Daggerfall: 45, Morrowind: 27, Oblivion: 21, Skyrim: 18)
Fallout is even worse, it goes from a turn based RPG, to first/third person shooter/RPG mix and 4 even does away with skills and just has perks.
Deus Ex goes from the devs thinking of practically everything the player could conceivably do in a situation to "Here's a boss, you can't avoid him, kill him."

Thing is there's a major difference between a slight downgrade in mechanics and a radical shift to a completely different style of game.

shaneoh wrote:

Along with many of the other major developers

Not the point. What Lz was saying is that Nintendo is supposedly above that kind of nonsense and yet the amount of rehashing they've done this gen easily disproves that notion.

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

I-U

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Again, because FF throw out everything that defines Metroid while the others didn't.

Federation Force rewards for exploration, rewards for speed running, rewards for mechanics knowledge, features Samus, features Metroids, features mechanics familiar to the Metroid Prime series, controls like a Metroid Prime game, has lore...If Federation Force tosses out everything that defines a Metroid experience, then I'm curious now what defines a Metroid game in the first place? Must be solely defined by high graphical output and a more detailed art style, because pretty much everything else is present.

"The secret to ultimate power lies in the Alimbic Cluster."

shaneoh

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Well designed and creative for starters.

Well designed is a facet of enjoyable and bug free, as for creative, well there are a lot of CoD players out there, they seem to be enjoying themselves with their, often, yearly releases.

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Again, because FF throw out everything that defines Metroid while the others didn't.

Like Mario 64 did? The isolation and exploration is there in FF, aspects that are part of the Metroid series, but being a spin off, it doesn't need to conform to gameplay that has been established for the main series, the point is to do something different.

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Thing is there's a major difference between a slight downgrade in mechanics and a radical shift to a completely different style of game.

Yeah, I wouldn't call the direction Fallout and Deus Ex have gone as a slight downgrade in mechanics. The amount of joinable factions in TES has dwindled too, there's a lot of storytelling missing. All three are drifting away from the RPG's that they started off as.

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Not the point. What Lz was saying is that Nintendo is supposedly above that kind of nonsense and yet the amount of rehashing they've done this gen easily disproves that notion.

Actually Lz made no mention of rehashing, just that I was saying that Nintendo isn't known for releasing shoddy products, their software has undergone significant quality control to ensure that it does what it is supposed to. Something all game companies should be doing, but a lot often don't.

The Greatest love story ever, Rosie Love (part 33 done)
The collective noun for a group of lunatics is a forum. A forum of lunatics.
I'm belligerent, you were warned.

Bolt_Strike

shaneoh wrote:

Like Mario 64 did? The isolation and exploration is there in FF, aspects that are part of the Metroid series, but being a spin off, it doesn't need to conform to gameplay that has been established for the main series, the point is to do something different.

The exploration isn't there, the maps are all linear so there's nowhere to really go but the one path the developers force you to take.

And positioning this game as something different was a mistake in the first place. The series hasn't had a main game in 6 years, and it's been even longer since they release a game that was actually liked. Plus the vague similarities to the main series in terms of aesthetics and genre make it too close to the main series to get away with hiding behind the spinoff excuse and puts it in an unhappy medium between being a main series game and a spinoff game. It's pretty much Metroid minus the exploration and Metroidvania elements, and Samus' iconic powerups, and those things are crucial components to Metroid's identity.

shaneoh wrote:

Actually Lz made no mention of rehashing, just that I was saying that Nintendo isn't known for releasing shoddy products, their software has undergone significant quality control to ensure that it does what it is supposed to. Something all game companies should be doing, but a lot often don't.

He mentioned that Nintendo avoids things that gamers complain about that people buy into. Rehashing fits that description.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

shaneoh

Bolt_Strike wrote:

The exploration isn't there, the maps are all linear so there's nowhere to really go but the one path the developers force you to take.

It is, you have to look around if you want to find suit augments, and they aren't always in the same spot. The more you have, the better your chances of survival

Bolt_Strike wrote:

He mentioned that Nintendo avoids things that gamers complain about that people buy into. Rehashing fits that description.

I've got a list of things gamers complain about but buy into:
Everything

The Greatest love story ever, Rosie Love (part 33 done)
The collective noun for a group of lunatics is a forum. A forum of lunatics.
I'm belligerent, you were warned.

LzWinky

I implied MOST things, thank you

Now point out the utterly broken games Nintendo has produced. I wanna see some Assassin's Creeds and Sonic Booms.

Current games: Everything on Switch

Switch Friend Code: SW-5075-7879-0008 | My Nintendo: LzWinky | Nintendo Network ID: LzWinky

I-U

Bolt_Strike wrote:

The exploration isn't there, the maps are all linear so there's nowhere to really go but the one path the developers force you to take.

There are plenty of secrets to explore for in Federation Force, and the game starts to open up with secret areas by Mission 3 and definitely by Mission 4. Mission 4 and Mission 8 I know are non-linear maps and Mission 20 features a section that is non-linear as well. Missions 6 and 9 are two missions that are more point A to point B in structure, but they each certainly provide the player with more than one route from start to end.

Bolt_Strike wrote:

It's pretty much Metroid minus the exploration and Metroidvania elements, and Samus' iconic powerups, and those things are crucial components to Metroid's identity.

Federation Force does have exploration. I will confirm though that it is not the kind of "exploration" where you need to backtrack halfway across the world map for an Ice Beam (Phendrana Drifts -> Chozo Ruins) just to backtrack all the way back for a suit upgrade (Chozo Ruins -> Phendrana Drifts) then backtrack all the way back for a third time (Phendrana Drifts -> Tallon Overworld) to reach a region like, for example, the Phazon Mines.

The Power, Charge, Ice, Wave (Prime), Plasma (Prime), Missiles, Super Missiles and Power Bombs are respectively featured in Federation Force as the Power Shot, Charge Shot, Freeze Shot, Shock Shot, Flame Shot, Missiles, Super Missiles and Proximity Bombs. We're not playing as Samus in Federation Force, which has been known since the beginning, so there are a few iconic upgrades of Samus' arsenal not around, but the arsenal that is provided certainly provides its fair share of assistance in uncovering secrets and dealing with threats within the missions.

Edited on by I-U

"The secret to ultimate power lies in the Alimbic Cluster."

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