Topic: what is a "next-gen" Nintendo console?

I’ve been thinking about what a new generation console means, and I’ve heard a lot of different opinions.
So, I’m going to share my thoughts and see what you think.

And I’m mostly talking about Nintendo consoles because they do things a little differently.

I’m in my mid-30s, and I’ve been around since the NES era. To me, a new generation means a big leap in technology. It’s so big that the console has exclusive games that you can only play on it, not on any previous generations.

Most of the games that come out for a current-gen console won’t be playable on the last-gen console.

For example, some people think the Switch 2 is just another Switch. Similar to how an iPhone 15 is just another iPhone, and you’ll be fine if you have the iPhone 14.

But I disagree. I think Nintendo console generations are different. There might be a few games that come out as cross-gen titles at first, but then Nintendo will completely focus on the Switch 2.

What do you think?

I would say that your view of how Nintendo handles generational transitions here is coloured by circumstance. I would argue that console hardware was in an "exotic architecture" phase from inception right up until the Wii/360/PS3 era. Since then things have moved towards a fairly standardised architecture which is the main reason why we see these fairly blurry generational boundaries

Of course Nintendo didn't do anything like that with the transition from Wii U/3DS to the Switch. But the reason why they didn't is fairly obvious if you think about it for even a second. The Wii U used discs and the 3DS was significantly less capable. The Switch had to cut compatibility. There was no avoiding it

Switch -> Switch 2 won't be like that. Because it's not like that. It's a relatively similar architecture with full backwards compatibility and largely the same form. There's no reason not to have a softer generational transition and, to be blunt, the softer transition is a good thing

@skywake But there's another reason why Nintendo probably won't do do much cross platform.
Money..

They know that if they make their new 1st party titles exclusive to the new generation then they will reduce the number of people who will reason "but I can play all the games, why should I upgrade"

Also there's a new iPhone released every year so the upgrades are less substantial.
The Switch hardware is nearly 7 years old and it saw no substantial mid-gen upgrades to its hardware.
So the upgrade in pure horsepower is actually huge (even if the numbers looks underwhelming on paper)
In practice it's a very big jump in terms of horsepower.

I would argue that it's similar to the jump from Wii to Wii U and the Wii U was also backwards compatible in a similar fashion I believe.

I suspect that we'll continue to see third-party support on the Switch for quite some time yet mainly thanks to cross-generation compatibility, while Nintendo will eventually phase out support in the interests of selling more units of their fancy new toy.

When I think of a next-generation Nintendo console, I think of innovation, so I'm quite disappointed that the Switch 2 isn't delivering in that respect (at least not that we know of yet... I'm reserving judgement until the April Direct).

Nintendo Switch 3 by my logical thinking.

@SillyG I hear what you are saying, but to be honest many times when Nintendo release a new console with innovative features people tend to call it gimmicky. Looking as: Wii motion capability, 3DS's 3D feature, Wii U's gamepad, NDS's dual-screen, N64's controller.

This time they have an upgrade that seems more similar to that of NES - SNES.

But they might allow you to use your joy con as mice which you could argue is pretty innovative right?

@DaniPooo
Ok, but that also applies to their competitors who have moved towards a softer generational transition. I would also note that I'm not saying there won't be exclusives or even that the majority of new titles won't be exclusive. What I'm saying is that it won't be the hard generational transition we've seen in the past

For example, consider the tail end of the 3DS/Wii U and the early start of the Switch. Could Samus Returns have been a Switch game? Absolutely. Could Snipperclips have been playable on Wii U? Definitely. Would those things happening have damaged Nintendo monetarily? ... I would say no except for the fact that these platforms were wildly different and doing cross-platform releases would have required a fair amount of effort

The Switch -> Switch 2 transition doesn't have that. Games can run on both. Games can potentially run on Switch and be enhanced when running on Switch 2. It's not going to be so black-and-white. This is a good thing both for us as consumers and Nintendo as a company who wants to maximise software sales. And it's an option that did not exist with previous platform transitions

If Nintendo ship and sell 20 million consoles in the first year, they are not going to abandon the 130 million and risng Switch users. Look at how they have recognised rising development costs. What we will see next gen is their AAA games only on Switch 2 (and third party support bolstering this for a couple of years) and their smaller games (gameplay > graphics) still on Switch but being upscaled on Switch 2. Might even be a case of first party AAA stuff doesn't use DLSS on Switch 2! Who knows. But this to me is a very conservative way of addressing rising costs whilst enticing folk to Switch 2 and supporting Switch, maintaining how prolific they are and not in a hurry to mimic Sony and Microsofts spec race..

I've used this example before but I would think that if Nintendo is pushing out a new Rhythm Heaven, Wario Land, Switch Sports Resort, Remake of Metroid Prime 2 or something in the next couple of years? They'd be silly to not make those games Switch compatible. But given Switch 2 will be out and will be similar architecturally I see no reason why those games couldn't have 4K output modes when running on Switch 2

But obviously the next Zelda game, Mario, Smash Bros, Animal Crossing or Kart? Those ones will almost surely be Switch 2 exclusive. As will a lot of third party releases. And it'll be those releases that drive sales of the new platform. The existence of a new 2D platformer that can run on Switch will not drag that enthusiasm for Switch 2. Especially if that new 2D platformer runs better on Switch 2

Again, the Rhythm Heaven Megamix that released late on the 3DS or Samus Returns which came out after the Switch launched. Those games came out because it made sense to continue supporting 3DS at that point, even after the Switch was out. But they did nothing for Switch. With a softer transition it'll be possible to have the best of both worlds for those kinds of titles. Continue to give people still on Switch something new to buy while simultaneously giving people a reason to upgrade and giving people who have migrated more titles to pick from. It's a win-win

@skywake I think that we will see just a few games in the beginning being cross platform.
Again Nintendo usually do things the nNintendo way and does not follow the trends of the "competitors".
I am feeling very certain that the Switch 2 is a proper generational leap over the Switch 1, (Meaning that it can run games that simply won't be possible on the Switch).
I would argue that in terms of performance boost it's probably larger than the OG PS4->PS5.
(Not saying that the Switch 2 will get PS5 performance or anything)

But yeah I think you're right about Switch games probably being enhanced for the Switch 2.
I think they could start with running Switch games in docked mode to take advantage of the new 1080p screen. that just seems like low hanging fruit right there. Then they could possible use some generics upscaling tech for some minor quality improvement on the TV.
But then I assume that then you allow Switch games to receive next-gen patches.
However it's not a very Nintendo thing to do so who knows. They might opt to re-release these patched games as "remasters". "The Legend of Zelda - Breath of the Wild Complete Deluxe 4k Edition" or something. They love their money.
Or perhaps they lock the next-gen patches behind the Switch Online Subscription or something.

Well, we'll see but I would be surprised if the first party Switch 1 support will last longer than 2 years.
And I only expect the first year to be somewhat active.

@skywake I agree, but I don't think that people should expect that Switch 2 games also will be back ported to the Switch. I mean a few probably will be. But it should not be the expectation.

I haven't associated Nintendo with power since the Gamecube. For a brief movement, Nintendo had a platform more powerful than the competition. But when the power chase didn't result in more console market share Nintendo pivoted their business philosophy. Now I view Nintendo as being the entry point to casual-core gaming.

Casual gaming is Wordle or Candy Crush on your phone.

Casual-core is console gaming. Budget, wall gardened, safe, reliable.

Hardcore is PC gaming. As powerful as you're willing to spend, precarious, less than safe, and reliant on Gabe Newell (Steam).

As for what qualifies as next-gen? Well...we've been witnessing the gap in fidelity and frame rate from one generation to the next lessening with each console generation. I think casual gamers would be hard pressed to discern the differences between a PS4 game and a PS5 game. Or 30 frames per second from 60 frames per second.

Regardless, consoles have been little more than cutdown mid-level PCs for the past twenty years.

"Next-gen" in the console space is merely iteration rather than innovation.

Microsoft is slowly leaving hardware behind. Playstation 6 will arrive in a couple years and be the only 8k console on the market while still being less powerful than PC gaming. All while Nintendo have carved out their niche as family-friendly entry-level casual-core gaming. Because Nintendo "doesn't consider Playstation as a competitor". Nintendo's words, not mine.

@Magician Well, I would agree with Nintendo on that. A lot of people get a Nintendo console as well as an Xbox or Playstation. I know a lot of people like that and I am one of them myself.
I really don't think a lot of people are thinking "hmm, should I get Nintendo or PlayBox-x86?"

Nintendo understands that their customers are not buying the hardware for the hardware, they are buying the latest and greatest "Mario, Zelda and Pokemon machine".
And since the "competitors" don't sell any "Mario, Zelda and Pokemon machines" they're not really competitors.

However when you are browsing for your PlayBox-x86 you might actually consider between Xbox or Playstation and go on YouTube to look at side by side comparisons and stuff.
Because PlayBox-x86 don't have as many console selling exclusives so they are directly competing by trying to outdo each other in horsepower and style. meaning that Playstation selling well usually means loss for Microsoft.

That's not really a concern for Nintendo.

Well back to a topic, I think people are severely underestimating how much more powerful the Switch 2 is compared to the Switch 1. for example the RAM upgrade, and I am not even talking about the size increase (though that's welcome too) but the memory bandwidth. Also the 8 core CPU, that a huge improvement! Not to mention the improver GPU, hoo boy is that an upgrade or what, the amount of cuda cores compared to the Switch 1, it's massive.
Basically, it's a very big jump in horse power from the Switch 1, many times more powerful in my estimation. not some "30% more powerful graphics" that you might hear on an Apple event.
No this is going to be a proper substantial upgrade, but that's because the OG Switch is more than 7 years old with the Tegra X1 being even older.

So with that in mind I have a hard time believing that Nintendo will backport that many Switch 2 games to the Switch 1. That's a lot of work. However perhaps some Switch 1 games already in development will be enhanced for the Switch 2. But once all those project are completed I bet that the devs will want to sink their teeth into developing for the Switch 2 (not just porting Switch 1 games to the Switch 2)

I would put most PC gaming as second least hardcore.

Least to most:

• mobile gaming
• the majority of PC gaming
• console gaming
• fancy custom gaming PCs

Many people have PCs for school or work and play some cheap steam games or super casual games like fortnite etc. That is actually less expense and effort than getting a console and games will often run less well on a cheap home PC then e.g. a PS5.

Switch is a bit overly wimpy, but I'm expecting Switch 2 to run games better than the PC I own, a device which is not new and was in no way built with gaming in mind. Granted, my current phone also runs games better than my PC simply because the newer technology (I bought the phone in 2024) makes a pretty huge difference.

@FishyS

It depends on how you quantify "hardcore".

Mobile gaming generates more revenue annually than PC and console gaming combined.

Yeah, that's part of why I listed mobile as least hardcore. But mostly I was thinking of the effort and seriousness a player has to put into the hobby. mobile is very low hanging fruit. PC and consoles have a near-ish amount of the market in terms of money but PC is very broad so it's hard to group it all together.

Though I was mainly making the distinction because of the thread topic to make the point that Switch 1 is wimpier than most things right now but Switch 2 will play games better than a lot of devices (such as common cheap phones and PCs).

@Magician @FishyS
The entire concept of dividing platforms in this way is and has always been a bit funky. Obviously I take issue with the concept of PC gaming being the hardest of the hardcore as @FishyS is here because for a lot of people PC gaming is just the default. A lot of people need a PC anyway so for them PC is the lowest cost, lowest effort platform. Just look at the steam hardware survey, high up the ranks? Laptop GPUs and Intel Integrated graphics

Then on the other end with what people typically consider the "core" gamers on PS/XB. I remember back in the Wii era seeing the comment sections talking about how the Wii was just a Wii Sports machine. All while I had a fairly deep and deep collection of Wii/DS titles and knew people who had a 360 with nothing but a copy of CoD or FIFA

I would say the thing that we probably want to say here is that Nintendo generally are the only platform that nurtures mid-budget gaming. Nothing about the dedication of players, their desire to spend money or the fidelity of the experience. Just the budget of the titles being made. There are and will continue to be less super high end super high budget games on Nintendo's hardware because there just straight up isn't the horsepower to drive them. There will also not be as many titles thrown together built in the parent's basement titles like we see on more open platforms like mobile and PC. But there will be a huge space in the middle.....

........ and I would argue, the middle was all that existed in the 90s and early 00s

As others have said, most gamers are mad/disappointed with their shiny new PS5's & Series X's, because nearly every game on them...also is available, and plays perfectly fine...on their old PS4/Xbox One.

When I got my 4K TV I was VERY excited to check out the difference for myself. I paid the $10/month 4K charge from my cable company and checked out a hockey game in 4K (the only 4K channels were sports channels). And then I changed the channel to HD. And back to 4K. And......I couldn't tell the difference. At all. I quickly cancelled my 4K cable TV access.

But the Switch 2 will not be like that.

The Switch has been compared to a PS3 in your hands.
The new Switch 2 will be a PS4 in your hands (minus Sony 1st party games of course). Or else why make it at all. For Nintendo-only fans, that's a huge upgrade in 3rd party library. The floodgates will open up.

Some of the most legendary games ever made were last gen. I've never played any of them. I'm sure I'm not the only one ready to wave my credit card at them and snap them all up.

I think there will be some smaller indie games that will continue to be newly available on Switch 1. But ones with "Switch 2" labels will be Switch 2 only.

And I expect all of the Switch games locked to 30fps will be upgraded to 60fps for example. Once you see the difference, I think most people will be very eager to upgrade to the Switch 2.

No more "better played on other platforms"!!!!!!!! FINALLY!!!

@MontyCircus I get it, but people need to understand that the jump from Switch 1 to Switch 2 is way bigger than the jump from PS4-PS5.

This is mainly because the Switch is just barely more powerful than the Wii U which itself is just barely more powerful than the PS3 and the XBOX360.
The Switch Hardware is really old. The Switch 2 in rough estimates has about 10-11 times the GPU performance for many tasks. Several times more powerful CPU, several times larger memory bandwidth, much faster RAM technology and much more RAM (12GB instead of 4, it's a game changer).
On top of all that it will have faster storage solution and DLSS.

This means that the upgrade will be more similar to going from a PS3 to a PS4Pro in terms of the percieved performance jump. The jump from PS4 - PS5 is lesser in terms of what you actually get for the performance.

Have you tried switching from Ultra quality to Low quality in modern PC games?
Sometimes the difference is not actually that big, but those ultra shadows and path tracing are super taxing for the hardware despite a lot of people can't even tell the difference.

This is the problem right now, after a certain point you get very little improvements from the extra horsepower. Playstation and Xbox has passed that point, But Nintendo has not (yet).

But Nintendo is in the unique position that they are working with Nvidia. Nvidia was probably not too enthusiastic to go all in with the Switch 1 after the sales disaster that was the Wii U.
But now after the success of the Switch, I am sure that Nvidia is excited to have their hardware in the Switch 2.

So yeah, I totally think that people are underestimating what a huge upgrade the Switch 2 is over the Switch 1.
Perhaps it's like always, people being negative (in fear of getting disappointed) and/or lack technical knowledge so even if someone wave specs in their face, they don't know how to translate them into real world performance.

@Magician "Mobile gaming generates more revenue annually than PC and console gaming combined."

And that makes it hardcore in your opinion? How are micro transactions and gatcha implementations making a game hardcore?

In my opinion "most hardcore" translates to "most dedicated players".
And sure the most hardcore/dedicated players are probably the players who saves up money for the most fancy gaming rigs.

then the mainstream is using mid tier PC's, game consoles and/or mobile phones
(this might look slightly different in Asia where I believe there's a lot more "hardcore mobile gamers")