Topic: General Comic Book Discussion

I know we used to have one of these, but for the life of me I can't find it (I even dug through 10 pages of @Shingi_70's comments, he was a pretty regular commenter on it, and his last post in general was in 2016, so I guest that thread is forgotten...)

Anyhow, after much contemplation, I've purchased my first comic book (digitally), the first volume of Rick & Morty. It's actually really cool. I've only read the first 3 chapters so far, but the art really pops and they pretty much nailed the characters. It's literally like experiencing new episodes. Apparently they've been putting them out since 2015 and have 4 volumes (about 40 chapters) out in total, so should I purchase more in the future, It'll go a long way to making the wait for season 4 more bearable, lol.

Not sure what else to check out in the future. The entire superhero genre is intimidating as heck (so many alternate universes & reboots). From what I've heard, the western publishers of manga tend to censor out any and all nudity (removing the rare instance in a more mainstream series, like Dragon Ball, is understandable, but apparently even mature series like Ghost in the Shell, and even series that thrive on fan service, like High School DXD & Triage X are cleansed of it, which I'm not sure I could get behind on principle). Also, I'm also not a big enough fan of many of the other geek culture series that get comic tie ins, like Star Wars, Star Trek, Sonic, Mega Man, or Transformers to make it worthwhile (maybe Godzilla, though).

@RR529 You might be thinking of the DC or Marvel threads, we never really had a generic comic thread. There's a Marvel one a DC one and an Anime/Manga one but not a comic one.

@Tasuki, I could have sworn we had a general comic thread that predated the DC & Marvel threads (both of which covered more than just comics). I even believe @CanisWolfred popped in from time to time to discuss what web comics he was reading at the time.

Eh....
Is Manga considered as a Comic in this thread ?
Because i have a lot of Doraemon comic books.

@subpopz I agree with @MarcelRguez in that Secret Wars is the origin story of Venom, so you should probably check that out if you want to know all the ins and outs, but if it isn't THAT important to you, you could always go to the Official Marvel Comics database and read up on his (and any other character or group's) entire story there.

And they also link to all the comics/stories that a specific character/group appears in, so if you actually DO want to read them, that's a handy guide to get the what's what of the chronological order of the relevant stories.

The database can be found here:
http://marvel.com/universe/Main_Page
And under 'characters' (in the black bar at the top of the page) you can find the ones you're interested in,

EDIT: Scratch that, just use the "Search the Marvel Universe" box on the right underneath the red Marvel Universe Wiki bar...

such as the original Venom:
http://marvel.com/universe/Brock,_Eddie
I say original, because nowadays, we've had several people being Venom:
http://marvel.com/universe/Venom_(disambiguation)

In any case, the info found there will save you from having to read at least two seasons worth of Spiderman comics to catch up on Venom's entire story, and it's a pretty decent short cut to make sense of all things Marvel...

On a side note: if you're interested in Venom, you might also want to check out Carnage, and the Spiderman series Ultimate Carnage.

And for completion's sake, here's the link for all of DC Comics' characters and events as well:
https://www.dccomics.com/characters

Both of these databases may come in handy for you as well, @RR529.

Finished up vol. 1 of Rick & Morty, and it was really hilarious (I was planning on reading it over the course of a week or so, but I was so hooked I binged it in two days, lol. Not sure how often I'll purchase a comic, but it's definitely something I'll be doing more of in the future based on this experience.

@Anti-Matter, yes, manga counts as well (though we also have a more dedicated manga/anime thread too). I was a big fan of Dragon Ball, History's Strongest Desciple Kenichi, InuYasha, Ranma 1/2, and Rurouni Kenshin in the past (through dubious methods...)

@ThanosReXXX, thanks, I may look into it? I assume it's mobile friendly (does it have an app)? When it comes to superheroes I'd probably start out with Superman, the Flash, Spider-Man, or Captain America.

@ThanosReXXX I'm 99% certain that the original publishers aren't seeing a dime from GetComics. Or the other two or three you linked. One of them is just the comics version of a scanlated manga reader I used to visit. Just saying, last I checked, the "no promoting piracy" rule applies to more than just games...especially if hyperlinks are involved...

Not that those publishers make it easy. Why can't I buy comics through the Comixology app? Because they aren't allowed to. The publishers want you to buy stuff through their own apps, where they can charge a premium and ensure that their stuff isn't sharing the same digital shelf space as their direct competitors. Mind you, ComicsPlus is more my speed, with less of an emphasis on the industry titans, but their app is kinda crap on my 3rd gen iPad, at least when I last used it. As you said, reading digital comics feels best on a tablet.

...I also see there's something called ComicsFix on...what is that? A Kindle Fire? Anyone ever use or even heard of that? I'm genuinely curious now...

@CanisWolfred GetComics offers archives of comics that aren't available anymore, or VERY hard to get a hold of, and most scans or of very high quality, all done in the CBR or CBZ format.

While I was making all these comments, I've actually looked into the archives in the DC and Marvel web shops, and they weren't even half as complete as the GetComics archive. And don't even get me started on finding stuff from the smaller publishers...

And if they were so illegal, they would have been taken down a long time ago. They've already been around for over a decade, so it's not like they are invisible or hiding out in some dark corner of the web.

And in general, they don't offer the latest of the latest, so it's truly meant as an archive for older and at the most last season's series.

And the online reader sites, from which you can't download, are probably just as legal as crunchy roll is for streaming anime... All sites that are also highly visible and known, so they should have been eradicated long ago if it was all so against the rules. That is also the reason that I don't feel I should have any reservations in mentioning them, and I don't.

1) It's still piracy. I'm just saying...let's not attract the attention of the mods too early, eh?

2) They also have brand new stuff that was just released on the shelf, like Venom (2018) #1. It was featured on the front page, it came out just yesterday! I could literally walk into any of the nearest comic book shops in my city and buy this off the shelf. I got a doctor's appointment I have to leave for in 15 minutes, I could even prove it to you. This site don't give a damn about providing people with old comics no one has access to. It's just yet another piracy site that's begging people for money while hosting stuff they don't own, ripped by other people who honestly, probably aren't happy that their ad revenue is being co-opted by another 15 other websites. Or maybe they don't care. You can check their about page, they even list a few places they get their stuff from.

TL;DR - You can't justify piracy. You can condone it, you can put up with it, accept it, own up to it - heck, you can even have your cake and eat it, too, knowing that you're saving yourself money by getting comics that you didn't have to pay a dime for. Again, the publishers need to get their **** together and work on improving availability through the digital medium, and finding more ways to get new readers into their stories, universes, products - seriously, these guys don't even feel like sensible businessmen at times...

But with that said, it doesn't really sit well with me that you'd tell a new reader to just pirate comics. Those other legal sources I mentioned do have free comics and previews that are meant to be a jumping-in point for new readers. Maybe not in the case of Venom, unfortunately, but it still seems a bit...callous. Like telling people to go to BitTorrent to check out your favorite electronic band...instead of their own website which hosts free tracks, or SoundCloud, or Spotify, or their official Youtube channel...c'mon, man. Could be a bit more supportive of the things you love.

@CanisWolfred You don't HAVE to sponsor them, it's free, you can donate nothing or even a dollar if you want, so them begging for money is a bit of an over-exaggeration. It's not like they're limiting your access if you don't sponsor them.

And I also don't agree on him not giving a damn: what with the cost and effort involved to keep the archives online and the comparatively little income that he receives from those voluntary donations, it's pretty clear that while arguably not entirely on the up and up, it is largely a labor of love for him.

As for likening it to piracy or BitTorrent: all his contact info is clearly visible, unlike real pirate sites and BitTorrent sites, which are always a bit shady by nature, so that's a big difference to me. And I buy all my music, so no comparison there either. All I want to do is spread the love and share my joy of comics.

And those free comics you mentioned, such as the ones I've checked out on Marvel's site yesterday, are only previews and or 3 page teasers. So free comics is hardly what they are. More like free advertisement for their comics, but nothing worth of the label comic itself. And now that they're part of a larger empire, those kinds of schemes are only going to become more common and intrusive.

Just take a look at what some of Marvel's or DC's graphic novels cost, that's close to extortion: on average between $15 - $25 for a digital comic. For that price, I'd want the real thing, in physical format. Heck, I might even be inclined to pay more for it in physical format, but not for a digital comic, sorry.

Concerning GetComics also posting new comics now: that's something I truly wasn't aware of. I only download old comics from there that I either used to own or simply can't find anywhere else, and I have been visiting this site for quite a few years, and this wasn't the case until fairly recently, so it must have started somewhere in the last 6 - 12 months or so.

As for attracting the mods: no offense, but if people don't use certain terms/triggers that attract said attention, then nothing would be happening whatsoever. And I haven't been mentioning certain labels, so...

Personally, I'm fine with the site, and I'm also fine with downloading old comics from there. Over my lifetime, I've literally spent thousands of dollars on physical comics, and I still own around six boxes full of them, even after having to sell off quite a few of them due to personal hardship.

Not that this is a reason to now download them for free by default, but I just mention that to show that I've done my fair share of supporting them, and getting most of these older comics back is either virtually impossible, or astronomically expensive, so neither of those is a valid option for me.

But fair enough if you don't agree. We all have a right to our own views and opinions. As long as those opposing opinions don't cause any harm to one or the other, I can respect them and I'm perfectly fine with it.

@ThanosReXXX For all that was written there, what I meant by "justifying" was that none of that would hold up in court - they're breaking copyright and distributing works that they don't have the license for. The only reason they haven't been shut down is simply due to the fact that there are too many of them. We've seen that with ROMs, movies, music, etc. - trying to stamp them all out just strengthens their resolve. Mind you, if they were selling these files with individual price points, or some sort of recurring fee, they'd be givin a much greater priority and delt with immediately.

As far as the law is currently concerned, those websites are explicitly infringing copyright. As far as the community rules are concerned, hyperlinking to those sites is explicitly forbidden as per the rules. I was hoping you'd at least take a look at that when I brought it up earlier and correct it yourself before anyone had a chance to report you, dude...

Overall, though...we've had this exact discussion before. You're right, I don't think we're going to agree, especially since you seem to be arguing that it's okay to download from those sites, which is...not wrong? It's a fuzzy area, at least, and I'm nowhere near qualified to argue for or against it. Only other point I was trying to make - which I don't think I made clear at all, but I'll take another crack at it - was the observation that these sites would have less of an audience and less of a community if the big-name comics were made more accessible, both in terms of availability, and in terms of providing easier ways for readers to find and engage with a self-contained story, or at least slow down on the big events with multiple tie-ins and mini-series...I didn't actually buy anything today, that new Venom comic had me 10 kinds of confused...and it was the first issue...

This is why I prefer webcomics instead. It's a lot less professional, but at least I know where to start...

@CanisWolfred Well, we definitely agree on the steps that the big parties need to take to improve things, and we also agree on the whole online comics thing being a bit of a grey area. Personally, I choose to believe, or actually do believe (haven't fully decided yet) that if Marvel wanted big sites like that out of the air tomorrow, then they would be, especially since, like I already mentioned, the people behind them are far more openly visible than any torrent site.

Another thing that I hope we can agree on, is those prices. That they charge $1.95 for new comics still seems reasonably fair to me, but a lot of those prices for the older stuff are ridiculous, and I think I'm not the only one interested in those, so if the audience is big enough (which I think it is), then they should still be able to make a profit off of them if they price them half of what they are now, especially since you don't get an actual comic for that price. Hard copies, assuming people keep them save enough, like any true collector would, last far longer than any digital copy, and the pricing for the digital version should reflect that, imho.

Just out of curiosity: what got you confused about the new Venom comic? Seeing someone other than Eddy Brock being him? That certainly was what confused me when I first looked it up to be able to post about it a couple of comments ago. I never knew the symbiote got handed down...

Aaaand then what? Someone else takes their place in the rankings. The problem isn't just that there are so many and it'd be time consuming...and probably costly if lawyers get involved, too. I figure that's why they'd prioritize anyone who'd try to directly sell or blatantly profit from it. It's more cut 'n' dry, and so the legal process shouldn't take very long and hopefully not cost the company too much in the end. Ironically having a small-scale donation system could make for a good cover and makes it look like they don't make nearly enough to be a big threat - although, it's more like a bug's camoflage than anything.

Pretty much. It's also one of those cases where the setup summary left me with more questions than answers.

#1 - Why did SHIELD collapse?
#2 - Venom is an anti-hero now? When did that happen? I mean, am I just not remembering that right? I actually had a few Spider-Man comics growing up, I always remembered him as an antagonist with a perverted sense of justice/self-rightousness. Are they toning that down here? It made it seem like this was a long-time thing.
#3 - Is this supposed to be more tied to the reboots that happened a few years ago? I tried those, too, but it doesn't really seem like it's directly connected...were those even still canon?
(Oh wait, no, it's part of another "Fresh Start" relaunch, so...wait, then why does it still seem to be referencing past major events? Is that also part of the relaunch? How would it be a "fresh start" if that wasn't the case? But then...do I need to read up on those events so I get what's going on? I guess not, but still...they couldn't have gone for a simpler reason for a monster attacking the city, that sets off Venom's new book? Instead it has to involve events that make me feel like I need to read up on some other major event before I can read the book I was ready and willing to spend money on reading???)

#4 - Yes, since when could symbiotes be handed down? I mean...it's an organism of it's own, I guess it can do what it wants, but...

I'm so confused.

@CanisWolfred Hm... no offense, but it almost seems like you're determined to "cure" my behavior or thought patterns. I'm sorry to tell you that this isn't going to happen, so you'd better save yourself the trouble.

That's why I was focusing on the positive side of it: the things that we actually DO agree on, so that we could end our discussion on a positive note. I detest negativity, in whatever way, shape or form. It brings nothing and only costs energy. So, even though I could give yet another answer, I choose to refrain from addressing your latest points, since it would only further the discussion in which we're never going to see eye to eye anyways, and I'd rather spend my time in a more constructive way.

Again, no offense, but let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Hope you understand.

P.S.

How about that Venom question? I'm still curious...

To be fair, I meant to include that and my previous post in my first post...having to rush out a post so I can get to an appointment always throws me off. I'm not trying to cure you of anything. Except naivity, perhaps. If you truly believe something will work that I have observed failing in the past for multiple reasons, you bet I'm gonna say something...

Also, reasons are editted into my previous comment. Didn't expect you to reply so fast...

@CanisWolfred Fair enough. And my bad on answering too quick. It happens sometimes...
For what it's worth: I'm not naive. Far from it. I just have my own views and ideas, is all. And even if I don't always agree with others, I still try to respect their views, and I'd hope others would respect mine.

But yeah, the whole Venom thing: guess we both got kind of a surprise when catching up on Venom. I only looked him up because one of the other posters asked about him, and that is how I came to find out that there have now been three iterations, each one a little less criminal. Go, Marvel...

Anyway, no need for you to have to read up on some other major event before you can read the actual book you wanted to buy/read, we've got the official Marvel database for that, to fill in the gaps:

http://marvel.com/universe/Brock,_Eddie
http://marvel.com/universe/Venom_(disambiguation)

That's how I do it, anyways. I haven't collected any physical comics in over 2 decades and once I started collecting digital ones, I had a LOT of gaps to fill, and knowing Marvel, story lines will typically be spread out across multiple series, which on its own are not always interesting to me, so I wasn't about to buy or even read those, and as such, I'm perfectly fine with just getting a summary of past events in the form of the "here's the story so far" pages in the database...

Whether or not the stories are canon, is anyone's guess. There have been so many reboots both at Marvel and at DC, that I've almost lost count. And don't get me started on alternate universes/Earths...
It's almost like a soap series: people dying, but actually not and people getting relationships with people they aren't supposed to be with or not, and people all of a sudden being evil, but not really, and the other way around... Head explodes...

As for S.H.I.E.L.D. collapsing: wasn't that kind of old news? It's clearly detailed in the Cinematic Universe and in the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. series, so I guess I supposed that either the comics were the source of that, or that the comics were adapted to be canon with that.

All this talk about Venom did make me wonder who he's going to be in the upcoming movie, and how they are going to change the origin story, since the Cinematic Universe didn't do the Secret Wars, and time is too short for them to add another Spider-man movie in between, so the story is going to be VERY different altogether.

Here's an article that talks about this:
https://screenrant.com/spider-man-black-symbiote-suit-tom-hol...

Kinda disappointing, to be honest, because it was a great story line, but I've learned long ago to just enjoy and accept the Marvel movies for what they are and not criticize them too much because they aren't following the actual story lines to the letter.

The cinematic universe is its own thing, though. Plus...I remember looking it up a while back, and figured that it...must've started up, and ended again? I dunno, I never followed Marvel or DC closely. I just remember reading about it on Wikis when Iron Man 2 was still in theaters...

As for the Venom movie, I remember reading that they were gonna do one where Venom was an anti-hero when I was in senior year of high school...2010 I think...I was still confused/disappointed that they changed the origin story, but not by much. I grew up with the 90s cartoon, and that's still my favorite, anyways. However, I did get around to Secret Wars after watching AtopTheFourthWall review of it. Good stuff, and holy crap! That was the comic one of my favorite Dexter's Lab episodes referenced! I always wondered what they were going for, since it seemed like such a cool concept. Glad I finally got to see it play out as intended!

@FinalFrog I'm not going to "wildly" oppose you, but I do think that you're closing yourself off/limiting yourself from seeing/reading a heck of a lot of good stuff.

First off, DC: the graphic novels I mentioned earlier are second to none and are also highly regarded by both fans and comics business alike.

If you don't mind, I'm just gonna quote myself here:

All have beautiful artwork, and some even stunning, the stories are brilliantly written, and a lot of these stories are VERY memorable, so I would almost wonder what's not to like...

I like your choice of classic artists, though. I would however add Stan Lee (yeah, I know he's a writer/editor, but his stories were great), Neal Adams and John Romita, and for the eighties and nineties I'd add John Byrne, Jerry Ordway, Dave Gibbons, John Romita jr and Alex Ross.

And Miller last? Are you nuts?
(just kidding, obviously, but his Daredevil and Batman stories are legendary, and let's not forget Sin City)

And what exactly is wrong with Jim Lee? He penciled some iconic stories, and they all looked great:

Obviously, we all have our own tastes, and that is fine, but I would always stress (and add) that it IS my own taste/opinion, I don't know if I would ever go so far as to precisely tell people what (not) to read or follow. I would only recommend or caution people, and then it's ultimately up to them.

@CanisWolfred Yeah, it's a great story, and we are in agreement again, because the movies are indeed their own universe, but obviously, both the movies and the comics have some of the larger story lines and happenings in common. Like you, I haven't really followed modern Marvel or DC for quite a few years, so I wasn't really up to speed on the most recent story lines either (hence me also being surprised by the whole Venom thing).

As for what they were going for with Secret Wars: I suppose it was one of the first reboots, of sorts. New Spider-man, new Fantastic Four story line, and so forth, so perhaps that is where it ultimately all started...

Loved that 90's cartoon as well, and not just Spider-man: I also have fond memories of the X-Men cartoons. It did show that in cartoons, it is apparently much easier to stick to the stories than in motion pictures, and perhaps if you're an avid comic book reader, you go to the movie expecting certain things to appear in the movies as well, but like we already agreed upon, it is probably best to let that go and just see them as their own medium, and just enjoy them regardless.

Still a shame that Secret Wars is never going to be in the Movies, though. I think that Infinity Wars is probably the most heroes & villains they can handle in a two-part movie...

Or perhaps, much like with Venom, they just change the story line, and we might still get to see some kind of Secret Wars story, some time in the future...