Topic: Everything points out to Massively disappointing E3

@skywake

We don't know until after the show, which is why the original headline isn't "Nintendo's E3 show was an utter disaster" but instead says that things point out that it will be.

You say that we don't know what it will be yet boldly claim that there will not be ARMS or Pokemon? Why wouldn't there be? Do you think that they don't want to use a bit of time to advertise their next upcoming games, which they also host tournaments on? Sounds dubious at least.

I didn't change my stance on anything. I said from the get go that they had Pokemon Direct to divert negative press from the actual E3. I wrote that in the original post. I didn't suddenly change the length of the Spotlight five minutes shorter. People merely reacted to new info.

There is absolutely nothing I have suddenly changed tacts on or tried to wiggle around. Evidence points out to bad E3 showing.

@Timppis Not if you've been asked this yet, but what are your expectations, announcement wise? Not what you'd like to see, but what you think we're going to see.

Also, you call out the posters above about speculation on what's in the Spotlight, yet this entire topic about how bad E3 will be is speculation.

I didn't say that. I said that that they're putting out information before E3 so they don't have to spend time talking about it at E3. You're saying that them talking about stuff before E3 is a negative because it's all "bad news". I don't see how you've come to that conclusion. Them "clearing the decks" before E3 is a sign that they want to talk about something other than Pokemon, Arms and 3DS at E3. They do this every year.

For example....
Pre-E3 2012: MiiVerse and Wii U hardware rundown
E3 2012: Wii U games

Pre-E3 2013: 3DS games
E3 2013: Mostly Wii U games and A Link Between Worlds

Pre-E3 2014: Smash Bros, Mario Kart 8, Tomodachi Life
E3 2014: Smash Bros, Zelda, Splatoon, Bayonetta

Pre-E3 2015: Xenoblade, Splatoon, Smash Bros
E3 2015: StarFox, Mario Maker, Metroid Prime Federation Force

Pre-E3 2016: Pokemon
E3 2016: Zelda

Notice a pattern? They clear the decks. The stuff they talk about immediately before E3 is stuff they don't want to talk about at E3. For better or worse. So far this year they've talked about 3DS, Arms and Pokemon. I think it's a fairly safe assumption that they're not going to spend a lot of time at E3 talking about those things.

@Monado_X

My realistic expectations for the spotlight

Mario
Rabbids
Xenoblade delay
ARMS, Pokken tournament hype.
Splatoon 2 tournament hype
Zelda DLC reminder
Nindies reel
FE Warriors
One announcement for well known IP
Maybe a middle tier game or port of some sort available after the presentation (they've done some of that before)

I think that's about it, give or take.

Yes. This entire thread is speculation, which is why pointing out that speculation is bad while speculating on your own is kinda pointless argument.

Ok, if those are your expectations, how are you going to be disappointed? The only things that could be taken out are ARMs and Pokken, since we know about those already. We're going to see all of those in some form or fashion, so I'm not sure how that's disappointing if that's what you're expecting.

All I'm saying is that all of this is speculation, and people should be free to speculate with the evidence we have. You have a particular view of what has happened over the past few days, other people have a different view. They're not wrong to view recent events that way.

I am beginning to agree with the OP but who knows.

As pointed out everyone is free to speculate because speculation isn't factual.

For me E3 is about BIG Triple A games and big hardware announcements. That's how I rate it.
To others a lot of mediocre games being revealed are a big deal and make E3 a success.

@Monado_X

I am disappointed because it lacks the surprise element, the shenanigans, the folly and joy that is supposed to be Nintendo. It is things that we already know of, sequels, ports, etc. (I count FE warriors as a sequel).

Mario is probably going to be great.
I like shenanigans and silliness and strategygames so Rabbids is probably straight my alley.

But the focus on 2017 and the overall secrecy on whether or not we are going to have working online environment, VC, 3rd party support, any actual Nintendo games going into 2018 and beyond is very concerning to me.

From investors point of view, having Mario there is a must have, just because anything else would be lackluster at this point. Splatoon is a great game and sells well but it still isn't Mario or Zelda or Pokemon.

I understand the need to focus on Mario at this point. But I don't understand the need to focus on 2017 when you have a product that you are supposed to sell for a long time. This is the time to tell that Switch is going to be here for years on. Not to say that well yeah we got a great 2017 but other than that you will have to wait.

We have seen the droughts. We know Nintendo doesn't have the capability to produce quality titles all the time within short intervals. No one has. And being a Nintendo device 3rd party support is what it is.

There are great deals of concern and the Pokemon Direct most certainly didn't address them. If any amount of footage is dedicated to Pokken or ARMS especially on the beginning of the spotlight you know it's going to end really bad.

I do want it to be awesome. I really do.

At the moment I really don't believe it will be.

1. I don't know why you think they'll say a lot about Arms or Pokken given recent Directs
2. You're assuming a Xenoblade delay, if that's the case they might not even mention it
3. A good E3 show can hinge on one game and even with your pessimism you've listed two unknowns...
4. I don't see what makes your list realistic and other people's some kind of blind fanboy dreams

Again, this was my guess at what's likely to be shown

• Fire Emblem Warriors
• Splatoon 2
• Super Mario Odyssey
• Xenoblade Chronicles 2
• Mario/Rabbids RPG
• ????
• ????
• ????
• ????

@skywake

1. Because they focus on games coming out this year. And because they are big efforts. And because they both have tournaments at E3. And because they usually do talk about games like that.

2. I am not the only one assuming it. IGN and Gamespot podcasters have talked about it in multiple occasions as well as other video game journalists. If it is delayed they indeed might not even mention it, but they more often apologise and move on.

3. Yes. Those two unknowns might be AC Amiibo Festival Deluxe and Mario barehanded Tennis.

@Timppis
You're just speculating based on no information. You created a thread about how everything points to a massively disappointing E3 for Nintendo. What is actually pointing to it other than you? We don't know what will be at E3. All we know is what Nintendo have chosen to talk about before E3 and what known games they haven't talked about in a while.

They've talked about Arms, Pokemon and 3DS a lot lately. The main show therefore probably won't go over that stuff again. They haven't talked about Odyssey, FE:Warriors, Splatoon, Xenoblade or Rayman/Mario much if at all. They will therefore likely talk about them a fair bit unless they've slipped into development hell. Which given the time they've allocated to talk means ~4 other items.

Those other items may be Amiibo, Zelda DLC, indie games and so on. They might be something that won't get any of us that excited like another Wii Music or Amiibo Festival. If everything goes wrong? Then sure, it'll be a pretty average E3 for Nintendo saved by the fact that we still get more info about Mario Odyssey. But if one of the unknowns is a bombshell? Then it immediately becomes a pretty memorable E3. At this stage we don't know which way it'll go and nothing is pointing to it being one or the other.

This thread should be titled:
"I guess that this will be a massively disappointing E3 despite next to no evidence either way"

There could still be surprises. That's the point of a surprise, right? You don't expect it. Who knows.

You have a point with the online. Yes, it's free until 2018, but that also means that the best possible service they could offer won't be available until then either. Personally, I'm of the mindset that they need to take as much time as they need to get the online service working perfectly, because if it doesn't, the fallout will be MUCH worse than what happened after the Pokemon Direct. Virtual Console might still come in 2017. I don't know where people get this idea that Virtual Console is tied to their online service.

Ok, so you think that because they don't show off 2018 games at E3, they don't exist? That's just silly. I'm sure they have at least half a dozen games in development for 2018 alone. Why show something off that you won't be able to play for a while? Nintendo doesn't do that too often, and when they do, it's a bad decision. Look at The Wii U Direct in 2013. The first of those games to come out was Wind Waker HD, but that was a remake. Every other game was released much later. That was not good. DO NOT expect a Sony like showing from Nintendo. Their philosophies on how to announce games and when to do it are different. And I prefer Nintendo's way of doing things.

And the third party argument always gets me going. Nintendo doesn't need third party multiplats. You know why? Because if someone has an Xbox One or a PS4, along with a Switch, which verson of COD or FIFA or whatever other multiplat that's popular will they buy? The one on their PC in a box. Because the graphics are better. Plain and simple. A lot of PS4/Xbox gamers don't care about portability. They want pretty pictures, and you'd get a prettier picture on the other two consoles. What Nintendo needs is quality third party exclusives that will compel gamers from the other two systems to buy a Switch.

Well, it's silly to expect Splatoon to be like Mario, Zelda or Pokemon, franchises that have been around for at least twenty years. They're trying to get it up there, I'm sure, but stuff like that takes time.

Have you ever been asked "How do you eat an elephant?" Well, the answer is piece by piece. And that's what Nintendo is doing in terms of announcing games. A lot of people bought a Wii U just for Zelda, and they waited for YEARS before it came out. Nintendo doesn't want another situation like that again. Again, they're not in the business of showing you games two, three even four years out just to hype people up. They have never done that and had it work out. Stop expecting them to behave like everyone else, because they don't. We have Nintendo Directs every few months. Playstation has one other event in December, and that's it. They HAVE to announce their big games here or at PSX. That's it. That's why they announce things so far in ahead, because it's the only place to do so.

What droughts? Really, what droughts are you talking about? Nintendo is set to release more first-party games, and higher quality ones at that, in the first nine months than the Wii U got in a year and a half. Your drought argument doesn't make any sense.

What concerns did the Pokemon Direct not address? They could pull a boneheaded move and talk about Pokken and ARMS, but maybe, just maybe, they'll talk about those during Treehouse and the tournaments? Places that make sense.

@skywake

E3 has more viewers than Nintendo Directs combined. They will absolutely talk about their big investments coming out in the near months. Especially if any of the other games are delayed.

@Monado_X

I don't think that they don't have games on development for 2018 and beyond. But I do doubt they can maintain the interval between releases that they have had now. Which is important (wrote essential first) for the Switch to keep the interest around. Yes Nintendo games have much more longevity than other console exclusives and Zelda will probably sell for years to come, but new releases are new releases.

I wholely agree with you on that they should take all the time they need to get the Online to be as good as it can be. That is only a good thing. But it is not good for the E3. Again. I am not condemning Nintendo into Doomtown or Switch as a failure. I am merely talking about this years E3.

Nintendo should be a little more like Sony. They should open up just a little bit. That doesn't mean you have to show up concept art for ideas some developer just threw around at a christmas party. But yes they could open up their secrecy a little bit.

What I meant with the Splatoon comment is exactly that. It isn't one of the beloved franchises as of yet and thus Mario needs to be there. Nintendo needs the well known franchises still as it is constantly trying to expand it's variety away from simply Mario doing whatever they want him to do that time. That is a great thing, but it also means that for the time being they need the heavy hitters to do the lifting at places like E3.

Saying that other console owners simply go for pretty pictures is simplifying a problem that exists. Nintendo Switch with Nintendo exclusives AND EA sports games is massively more attracting console than Switch without those EA sports games.

We do get directs, but an honest question here.
What games for home consoles have been revealed in directs (other than the Switch announcement direct, which is in every perspective different from normal directs)? And a follow up question: what is the last major 1st party game for home console to be revealed in direct?

I mean exactly the Wii U droughts. If Nintendo couldn't make games on a constant basis for Wii U why would it now suddenly be different? What has so fundamentally changed that Nintendo is now after the first year capable of churning out quality titles when it couldn't do that on a previous console? They have now released a lot of good games but what is to say that will continue. These games they have been working on for years when Wii U slowly dwindled. Can they keep up? How could they suddenly, when their entire development mentality is to create a good game no matter how long it takes.

Except as I listed out on the previous page they do this every year. Since they started doing Directs the content they talk about before E3 isn't the same as the stuff they talk about at E3. In 2012 they had a Direct before the main show at E3 talking about Wii U hardware and MiiVerse, during the show they talked about games. 2013 they spend the first part of the year talking about 3DS, E3 comes around and it's almost entirely Wii U. 2014? Mario Kart & Tomodachi Life before, Zelda and Splatoon at E3.

In the last few months they've had:
350k views for an 8min video about Pokemon
800k views for a 22min video about ARMS
330k views for a 35min video on "ARMS & Splatoon" that was mostly about 3DS games

Not only that but after the showcase they have tournaments for Splatoon 2 and ARMS. Why do they need to cover those games during the showcase? There's more than enough content floating around for both.

@skywake

Just one question.

Wasn't Mario Kart 8 revealed at E3 2013?

@ Timppis

To expect a big game each month from Nintendo for years is unrealistic. No other company releases as many first party games as Nintendo does. They have third parties to supplement, but besides Horizon and possibly God of War, what else is Sony releasing this year? We don't know what Retro is working on. The Zelda team is probably in the very early stages of their next game. ARMS is essentially out, so that team will most likely begin development on their next game. Same goes with the Splatoon team. EPD is most likely finishing Mario, if it isn't done already. Rumor has it that Monolith big enough to work on two projects, and Xeno 2 is almost finished. Their 3DS teams have mostly moved over to Switch. All but Game Freak, but they're not wholly Nintendo.

I personally don't want to see online stuff at E3. Give me games. Online can be talked about later. E3 is for the games, not online services, TV and sports cough Xbox cough.

That's a matter of personal opinion. I don't like how Sony reveals things way too early. Look at The Last Guardian, Shenmue III, KH III, Final Fantasy XV, Final Fantasy VII Remake. Half a dozen games that took FOREVER to develop. The thing that makes Nintendo different is that you can play most of their games at E3. Sony and Microsoft usually pad their booths with third party multiplats. I don't think God of War or Days Gone was playable last year. I'd go to E3 to play the games. But you have the right to your own opinion. Define secrecy. Because Nintendo isn't the only company that gives typical PR answers to questions, if that's what you mean. They all do.

Splatoon is very beloved among the Nintendo community for being, excuse the joke, fresh. It hasn't reached very far into the mainstream market in the West yet, but why should it have to? Not every Nintendo game has to be as successful or well known as Mario or Pokemon.

We'll see the attach rate of FIFA 18 on Switch vs. PS4 and Xbox One and Nintendo's will be dead last. I'm sure of it. The market for EA Sports games is much smaller on Nintendo hardware than other places. Third party exclusives will get people to buy the system before a multiplat does. A gamer isn't going to drop $300 for a console plus another $60 for a port of FIFA if they have a PS4. And even if they have a Switch, they're getting it on PS4. Plain and simple.

Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Xenoblade X, Twilight Princess HD, Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Payday 2 for Switch, Fire Emblem Switch, Wind Waker HD, Hyrule Warriors, Pokken Tournament for Wii U and Switch, if you wanna split hairs, and I'm sure many more than that. The last one was Fire Emblem Switch back in January, if we're not counting Pokken as a port.

And you know why there were droughts on Wii U? Poor planning. The dev teams had to learn to make HD games, and that's a big hurdle. They also had to try and incorporate the Gamepad, which often did work out that well. They also have merged 3DS and the home console divisions together, so they're not having to develop for two systems, for the most part. They're more organized and have HD under their belt. That's why I believe we'll continue to get game after game long into the future.

January 2013: Announcement
June 2013: Full E3 Reveal + Trailer
April 2014: 36min long Mario Kart 8 Direct
May 2014: Launch
June 2014: No Mario Kart at E3, No DLC or anything
August 2014: DLC announcement

Since they started doing Directs the content they talk about before E3 isn't the same as the stuff they talk about at E3. They generally use the time before E3 to get stuff out of the way for E3. Before this E3? They've talked a lot about ARMS, Pokemon and 3DS. They're not going to spend a whole lot of time showing the same trailers during the showcase.

@Monado_X Not everyone has a PS$ and Switch, I used to but now only have the Nintendo Switch because it so much fun. I really looking forward to FIFA 18 as really enjoyed FIFA Football on my previous PS Vita - choice is a massive thing and each to their own - This E3 will be really good and will show how the 3rd Party developers are progressing

The only pro to the Switch version of FIFA is that it's portable. It doesn't run on Frostbite and doesn't have all the modes. If you only have a Switch, that's great, since you're getting the game. But I personally don't believe that many gamers with another current gen system and a Switch will buy the Switch version first.

@Monado_X

Was Zelda or Xenoblade really announced in a direct? I honestly didn't remember that. I thought Xenoblade was announced like a really long time ago at some E3.

Looks like Nintendo was much more active in announcing their games via directs back in the 2013-14 era. Although that's understandable considering how sparse the releases became later on. They might very well pick that up again if they can keep up with the releases.

Reason for the low attach rate for Nintendo 3rd parties is exactly why you said it. They are often inferior ports or rushed up in some other way. That is a bad thing, but it is what people are used to. If Nintendo had a good deal of 3rd party support it would make the console much more viable "only option" instead of being a complimentary console.

I will get FIFA for switch exactly for the reason you mentioned. Portability. I would instantly get Battlefront on it for the exact same reason. Rocket League, Dirt, For every single one of them I could give you the same reason. Console gaming on the go.

That is a fantastic thing to have. And it is a thing that I hope can carry the Switch for a long time.

But again. This was originally about this E3 and the lack of substance it has. For that we seem to fundamentally disagree and I promise to write my own opinion here after the show. I will be honest. I will bake that cake if it's a good show.

I'll even throw in a little benefit of the doubt and see the first treehouse before getting mad.

@Timppis

Essentially, this comes down to preference. What may be exciting to me might seem absolutely boring to you. So I can't really blame you if things do seem disappointing to you. I apologize if it seemed like I was attacking you.

Well, if we're going to split hairs, Xenoblade Chronicle X WAS unveiled during E3, but the game itself was announced under the code name X during the January 2013 Direct. Same with Zelda. They said they were working on a Wii U Zelda that would challenge conventions, but we didn't see anything until E3 2014.

I'd buy Battlefront II in a heartbeat if it came out on Switch, and when I would be able to buy the console. Huge Star Wars fan. Bought the original on PS4 for about ten bucks around Christmas. I wish it were more like the old Battlefronts and less like Battlefield with a Star Wars skin. Hopefully II improves on that.

I think we all want Switch to succeed here, since that just means more games for all of us. Hopefully they can keep the ball rolling.