Pokémon Legends: Arceus raises a lot of questions about the future of the official competitive Pokémon format, VGC. Will Frostbite replace the Frozen status condition? Will Drowsy supersede Sleep? How will overpowered new moves such as Stone Axe and Victory Dance translate into a ‘typical’ Pokémon game? Will there even be a typical Pokémon game again? Until Game Freak lets us know otherwise, we can only speculate.
However, there are questions we do have the answers to – or at least very educated guesses – such as whether or not the fully evolved seven new Pokémon and the ten new Hisui forms will be viable in VGC.
We’ve stalked through the tall grasses of websites such as Bulbapedia and Serebii, poring over suspected movepools, base stats, and data-mined abilities, to suss out whether or not you should train up a Hisuian Electrode ahead of Generation IX.
To keep things simple, we’ve organised the ‘mons into tiers. Because who doesn’t love a good tier list?
D-Tier: Hot Garbodor
Only one Pokémon resides in the pitiful D-tier and that’s Hisuian Avalugg. Original Avalugg, a pure Ice type, found some niche roles in Sword and Shield’s online Ranked Battles. However, its Hisuian form, now an Ice and Rock type, loses any redeeming qualities it had by doubling its weaknesses to Fighting and Steel – both of which are common offensive types. A single Close Combat or Flash Cannon will send Avalugg back to the ice age.
C-Tier: Simply Outclassed
These Pokémon aren’t irredeemable but much better options exist. Take Hisuian Arcanine: in formats without Incineroar, original Arcanine dominates as a supportive user of Intimidate, Snarl, and Will-O-Wisp. Much like Hisuian Avalugg, Hisuian Arcanine becomes 4x weak to Ground and Water moves with the addition of Rock typing, making it a liability rather than an asset unlike its predecessor.
Hisuian Braviary also falls short. Original Braviary saw some play with its ability Defiant and use of Tailwind. In Hisui, Braviary loses its speed, nerfing its ability to set up Tailwind before opponents can get an attack off, and swaps its attack stat for its special attack, negating any benefit it gained from Defiant.
In competition for the best Hisuian starter, Decidueye’s new form comes in last, though it still wins first place for hardest-to-pronounce. A middling speed stat hinders this Pokémon both in and outside of Trick Room, leaving it vulnerable to its many, many weaknesses with no way to make use of its decent movepool and attack stat.
Hisuian Electrode doesn’t fare well either. While it boasts a massive base speed, it’s atrocious offensive stats rule it out as a sweeper. Electrode has access to decent support moves, but many other Pokémon with broken abilities like Prankster and better typing fill the support role better.
B-Tier: If Stars Align
These Pokémon have the potential to become mainstays in certain formats and under the right conditions depending on whether or not there are common counters or overpowered alternatives. Most of the new Hisui ‘mons fall into this tier.
Basculegion, the evolution of Basculin, is hard to place. Jellicent proved the Water/Ghost typing works well defensively, and with male Basculegion’s great health stat and above-average attack, it could see play as a defensive pivot, hitting the opponent hard before switching out with Flip Turn or sniping KOs with Aqua Jet. Two of its abilities, Rattled and Adaptability, show a lot of potential as well.
There isn’t much to say about Scyther’s new evolution, Kleavor. With a massive attack stat and the ability Sheer Force, not a lot of Hisuian Pokémon hit harder than it. With proper support from Tailwind or redirection moves like Follow Me or Rage Powder, Kleavor could decimate opposing teams.
Overqwil slots into B-tier for two reasons: its Poison/Dark typing has only a single weakness, and it comes with one of the best abilities in the game – Intimidate. If it gets better attacking or support moves in the future, Overqwil might squeak into A-tier.
Hisuian Samurott landing in B-tier might be a bit of a reach – it’s middling speed and unimpressive offensive stats scream C-tier. However, its Water/Dark typing boasts six resistances and one immunity without any glaring weakness. With a held-item like Assault Vest and investment in its defensive stats, Samurott could stick around for a long time while chipping away at an opponent’s team.
Sneasler isn’t quite as cool as its counterpart Weavile, though it might prove more viable. Poison/Fighting isn’t the best or the worst combination, and a great speed stat – one of the highest in Hisui – means we can’t count Sneasler out. If its mediocre abilities and fragility don’t hold it back, Sneasler will find a home on some hyper-offensive teams.
Likely the best Hisuian starter, Typhlosion earns its place in B-tier with a good special attack stat, decent speed, and wide range of useful moves – particularly Eruption, which, if meta-standard Pokémon like Torkoal are anything to go by, can quickly ruin an opponent’s day in the right situations. We wouldn’t be surprised if Hisuian Typhlosion popped up every once in a while wearing a Choice Scarf.
Stantler received a much needed evolution with Wyrdeer, a Pokémon that shows potential as a Trick Room setter, flipping the script on fast, hard-hitting teams. And much like Overqwil, we can’t count out a Pokémon with Intimidate. Combined with some decent bulk and only two weaknesses, we might see plenty of Wyrdeer in the future.
Zoroark comes equipped with one of the most interesting abilities of all Pokémon – Illusion. This ability allows Zoroark to appear as the Pokémon in the back of the player’s party, confusing opponents and baiting ineffective attacks. Hisuian Zoroark is no different, though now as Pokémon’s first Normal/Ghost type it has even more ways to trip opponents up. Any Normal, Fighting, or Ghost type move thrown at a Zoroark disguised as another Pokémon will do absolutely nothing. With Hisuian Zoroark’s impressive speed and special attack stats, the mind games Illusion creates could prove powerful – or gimmicky, like it did for the original Zoroark before it.
A-Tier: Get Used to ‘Em
There is little reason to believe the Pokémon in this tier won’t see ample play barring an overpowered counter. Take Hisuian Goodra, for example. Over original Goodra, it loses some speed and gains some defensive stats with one of the best typings in the game added to make it Dragon/Steel. It’s the definition of a wall – a Pokémon able to take multiple hits while dishing out non-negligible damage in return. It also rolls three good abilities that are hard to choose between. Expect to see Goodra on both Trick Room and non-Trick Room teams alike.
Yes – Hisuian Lilligant does suffer from being a Grass/Fighting type. One hit from an Air Slash will shred Lilligant into mulch. On a sun team, which are teams that utilise the weather effect to boost speed among other benefits, Lilligant would outpace almost every Pokémon with its ability Chlorophyll. With Fighting type coverage and status moves like Sleep Powder, Hisuian Lilligant threatens to be as oppressive as Pokémon such as Venusaur. Not to mention its signature move Victory Dance – which seems incredibly overpowered – and how it might translate into the next generation of games.
Last, Ursaluna may look like a bear, but it’s actually a truck. A slow, invulnerable, and hairy truck. With an insane HP stat that negates its weaknesses to common offensive types such as Ice and Fighting, Ursaluna’s staggering attack stat, paired with powerful STAB moves such as Earthquake, Double-Edge, or its signature move Headlong Rush, ensures that Ursaluna will find its way onto many teams, especially as a Trick Room sweeper. Fear the moon bear.
S Tier: Tremble Before Our New Queen
The Forces of Nature – or Genie Pokémon – have terrorized VGC for a decade. An argument could be made for Landorus, when legal, being the most oppressive Pokémon outside of Incineroar and more recently Zacian.
Now there’s one more: Enamorus, which comes with the amazing Fairy/Flying typing and two forms. Its Incarnate form boasts above-average speed and offence, and its Therian form comes with amazing bulk and low enough speed to abuse Trick Room. Combined with the insane ability Contrary, which causes stat changes to have the opposite effect, and there’s no reason not to think that any future VGC meta-game will shift to placate Enamorus’s pink reign of terror if/when she becomes legal.
That’s all! Outside of the Origin forms for Dialga and Palkia, which change little of how they operate in competitive play, that’s every fully evolved Hisuian Pokémon ranked. Keep in mind that depending on specific rules and which Pokémon are legal, even weaker Pokémon such as Pachirisu can anchor teams to World Championship wins. That’s the beauty of Pokémon – even if a ‘mon doesn’t seem viable, they may yet find a powerful niche.
Let us know in the comments which Hisui Pokémon you’re most certain will see play in future VGC formats, and don’t forget to berate us if you think we misplaced a Pokémon in the wrong tier.
Comments 48
TBH we don’t know until their abilities and new stats and move pools are introduced in gen 9.
Until then all we have to go on is data from a game that lacks competetive components.
EDIT: also I can see people usinh ursaring over ursaluna Because it can use eviolites now for a major boost in defensive stats.
This game doesn't need Competitive. In fact I was glad that stuff was absent here. Admittedly Competitive Pokémon grates on my nerves and it was nice that the game focused on the going out and catching them for once.
Come on man, why'd you have to do my boy Avalugg like that?
Also, Ursaluna is literally my ideal Pokemon. Insanely strong and bulky, good type, great movepool, and the fact that it's so slow means it's perfect on Trick Room, my favourite style of play. For how much I dislike Ursaring, I'm shocked it's evo makes me as happy as it does.
@darkswabber Well actually, they have at the very least placeholder Abilities as of now even though there are none in Legends. An example is that Hisuian Lilligant has Hustle as an Ability over regular Lilligant's. The same thing was true in Let's Go where we knew Melmetal's Ability was Iron First beforehand.
I enjoy competitive play and view it as the culmination of what Pokémon is gameplay-wise, battling, but I really enjoy that the focus is on exploration, capturing, and immersion.
With the mainline games, I become so preoccupied with crafting viable monsters that I blow through the story so I can get to the postgame and begin breeding. Because I also have the uncontrollable urge to make 'em shiny as well, the postgame is entirely just hatching eggs and I hate how I let it get this way. Arceus just throws all that out the window and forces you to get your butt out in the field and live up to the original tagline of "gotta catch 'em all," tying every gameplay aspect into exploring and capturing every Pokémon. Even the shiny experience is more fun, you're out doing whatever, hear that sound, begin a frantic search, then plan how you're gonna actually catch the darn thing. I feel like I'm 10 years old playing Red again and I love it.
So while these Pokémon will most assuredly be experimented with in competitive play once Home support is added and future games allow them to come in, I'm happy to disregard that mindset entirely for Arceus.
Also Avalugg was never good, Kleavor will never be Scizor, and Arcanine fans get btfo
There is no competitive format yet with these new 'mons.
We don't even know what the netx game will be and if it will follow the old formula.
There are no abilites in Legend Arceus. Many offensive moves have been scaled back and most boosting moves now affect normal and special stats (hopefully what I said made sense?)
It's just too soon to assume anything.
Heh, NL gotta generate clicks on their Website somehow.
Both Sneasler and Weavile in one of my “competitive” teams now. Always been a Sneasel supporter, as it’s been my favorite Pokémon since my young lad days of Gen 2. Glad I can be ridiculous and put two variations on the same team now.
Is Wobbufet still banned from competitive play? Sort of dates how long ago I was active in the scene if this changed a while back.
@TheBigK Absolutely agree with you. It’s not often a game that is so different from the original hits me so squarely where the nostalgia sets in and reminds me why I liked a series so much to begin with. Arceus is such a special and wonderful game.
@Benexcelsior They'll be available once either Gen 9 comes out, HOME capatability is released or if SwSh is updated to allow them in. This article is going off of datamined stats, abilities and movepools.
Oh no, I’ve only just recovered from bloody Landorus in the Unova meta!
@nessisonett YOU WILL NEVER ESCAPE. MUAHAHAHA
I’m hoping the ninth generation incorporates a lot of what Legends Arceus brought to the table. If all the routes between towns are open and explorable and the catching mechanics stay like they are in Legends, that would be phenomenal. Also, having battles appear natively in the overworld is a nice touch. If you shoehorn those elements into a traditional Pokémon game with more intricate battle mechanics, abilities and hold items, I think we’ve got a winning formula.
Getting a bit tired of all these OP genie Pokemon with really ugly designs. Hope enamorus is the last of them.
I think Ursaluna, Kleavor and Hisuian Goodra have a lot of things going for them. Hisuian Avalugg, on the other hand, will most likely give many Trainers trouble.
@DevinRex How? There were only three that were introduced over a decade ago before Enamorus.
@mr-duster The point is, there doesn't need to be 4 of them. 3 is just fine. Would be nice to see them use that energy designing something actually unique. Hell, I'd rather see an evolution of Jynx (finally) rather than seeing yet another genie.
I really liked the designs in Legends, they are far superior to all Pokémon designs we've had after Ruby and Sapphire, when Pokémon started being more "by the numbers". In general there has been an attempt by GameFreak to tone designs down a bit lately, even if that means we get fewer new Pokémon, and I'm all for that.
What I like about this game is that, well, not all the pokemon are crap to have on your team? you might actually want to use a pikachu this time around.
@DevinRex what’s the logic here? You say you want something unique then immediately say you want an upgraded version of an old Pokémon 🦛
well as there's no multiplayer, none of them.
This works in the sense of imagining VGC with datamined abilities I guess, but there are too many unknowns and a Legends: Arceus tierlist would be very different (Braviary is cracked for example because Esper Wing is stupid as hell and "speed" doesn't matter as much as "action speed"). If Esper Wing is priority in VGC, Braviary is still stupid, if datamined abilities are placeholder, etc. Too many unknowns.
@Benexcelsior heck for all we know do we even know if there even WILL be ranked competitive play in future mainline games because Legend Arceus is officially the latest "mainline" and doesn't even have PvP whereas for all we know BD/SP may ave pvp but don't don't even have ranked play as ranked is currently still exclusive to SwordShield which is in fact still active for that matter in that regard.
@Benexcelsior "Heh, NL gotta generate clicks on their Website somehow." And you fell flat for it 🤷♂️
No matter how strong your pokemon are. In PLA it's all worhtless when your super alpha blissey will lose against a bunch of 30 something phiones
I think Electrode might be able to fill a very specific niche within the extremely ghost meta as the game’s fastest user of foul play.
I see a lot of Mimikyu and Dragapult in my games and I think this will be a good counter.
I’ll think I’d knock Typhlosion down a peg, but the list is really well written
Competitive Pokémon has always seemed like it's for people who love spreadsheets. I've never been into it. Pokémon to me has always been about catching Pokémon and going on a little adventure. Love that this game is about catching primarily. Because shiny hunting is also the worst, and I don't understand people doing that either lol
They gave Avalugg a new form... just to suck more. Going by the datamined abilties, a good chunk of these new mons don't seem all that good. Outside of the new genie, she's at least OU lol
Zoroark is easy A-tier, y'all are wild. Faster and harder-hitting than the OG Zoroark by just a smidge, with 1 weakness to dark and 3 immunities to very common types. This boy is unbelievably easy to switch in, Sussy Imposter is just a bonus meme.
What is with those cringe sub headings every time there’s a Pokémon article on Nintendolife?
Pokémon cutler becomes available and ‘gotta eat them all’ okay guys, you’re not funny! 😁
@RubyCarbuncle why care about a gameplay mode that is completely optional?
A lot of these Pokémon will be make or break depending on the Moves they get in the next games. For example, Hisuian Goodra not getting Flash Cannon is a pretty glaring issue as a mostly Special Attacker. Assuming Hisuian Typhlosion gets Focus Blast & Extrasensory like its original counterpart, that'd be a big boost to it's bad Special Movepool in Legends. Overqwil not getting a Physical Dark-Type Move, good or bad, is a similar case to Hisuian Goodra's.
A lot of the Signature Moves added in Legends that are kinda bad might get buffs to make them better too. Examples being Hisuian Typhlosion & Zoroark's Infernal Parade & Bitter Malice Moves respectively. They have neat effects, but you'd never use them over Shadow Ball. Same thing with Dire Claw & Barb Barrage, cute extra effects, but you'd never use them over Poison Jab. But if they get a buff in Base Power for the next games, that'd make them viable.
As far as Abilities go, while most of these are probably set in stone, they could always change until they're available officially. I remember Chandelure, the Legendary Birds, & Legendary Beasts having great HAs that we knew before release, until they finally decided to release them a Gen later completely different. That aside, other than Ursaluna's regular Abilities, Basculegion's Adaptability, Kleavor's Sheer Force, Hisuian Lilligant's Hustle, & Hisuian Zoroark still having Illusion with its 3 Immunities, nothing else particularly stands out.
Last but not least, the Eviolite affecting Ursaring, Hisuian Qwilfish, Stantler, & Hisuian Sliggoo is something to note, more so for Sliggoo & Qwilfish if Toxic comes back as a TM/TR/Move Tutor Move. If it gets Toxic, with Hisuian Qwilfish's Typing, already decent bulk, & Intimidate, I could see that being a massive pain, and much better than Overqwil.
@dBackLash I don't but at the same time whenever a new Pokémon game comes out I see people talking about Competitive and yeah not gonna lie but it really grates on my nerves. Back when Pokémon started it was about catching them all and leveling up. The next generation comes along and IMHO completely ruins the game turning it into what it is now.
Maybe I'm old fashioned who knows. I just haven't had a very good experience with Competitive Players which I'm not going to get into here.
I miss the old days I guess that's what I'm trying to say.
@RubyCarbuncle Don’t worry, you aren’t the only one.
@dBackLash It isn't optional for the developers spending time on it, and it holds them back because they can't change the combat mechanics so easily when competitive is included. They wouldn't have introduced the new styles if we had it. Anyways, I have no intention to play multiplayer so the less time spent on it, the better.
How about we just play for fun!
This game made me forget about how toxic competition is.
@DevinRex I don't know why you say "yet another" when we've been introduced to the original three over a decade ago. It's not like we keep getting more and more genies every generation.
@Ramen756 The logic is simple.
Don't make more ugly genies. Make more evolutions of different Pokemon who desperately need it, namely Jynx.
Not sure what about that is so difficult for you to understand, but feel free to reread it until you do.
@mr-duster Three was fine. There's no point in having 4. It's like having 3 legendary dogs, then suddenly, out of the blue, a 4th legendary dog is introduced. I missed when it was always a trio of legendaries back then. Now they throw in whatever random number they want and rehash old ideas. Personally I'm not a fan. Could've used that energy making a Jynx evolution, as it was something people actually wanted and the game needed. No one needs another genie.
@DevinRex Well, then Regidrago and Regieleki were introduced as part of the Legendary Titans, no one seemed to have a problem with it.
And the game never "needed" a Jynx evolution. Maybe it would be nice, but I don't think it's something the game "needs".
@DevinRex what’s difficult to understand is that you wanted something unique, but i see an evolution of an older pokemon just a slightly upgraded rehash of an existing one. So much for “unique” . Just as unique as another genie - and i don’t think it’s ugly. I think she and Landorus are clever metaphors for “fertility”. If you don’t understand that, feel free to look up “fertility” in a dictionary.
Alternatively, look up Chinese legends to see the inspiration of the Therian forms. A fourth member was going to come sooner or later.
@mr-duster I was hoping you mention those. I disagree with the comment about "no one" having a problem with it. I've seen many who did and made complaints about the two extra Regis being unecessary, and I don't like the fact that new Regis exist either. Still, it's game freak, and just because a bunch of people complain, doesn't mean they will listen to them (Exp share and National dex anyone?)
And the game never "Needed" an Enamorus either. My point stands.
@Ramen756 We have different views then. Magmorter Rhyperior and Electivire all look similar enough to be considered evolutions of their predecessors but different enough to be seen as the next steps as well. In addition, their designs are subtle improvements on how they attack (Electivire has terminals as an upgrade, in addition to the bulbs on Electabuzzs head for example). What does Sneasler have that Weavile doesn't? An edgy design for Furrycon with more freakishly human proportions and a stupid name. Weavile looks like an actual evolution. Sneasler looks like Sneasel... In it's awkward teenage phase. Lmao.
And they all look hideous to me, but Enamorus is especially hideous. I'm tired of the stereotypes Japanese companies put on women. I can see them in the studio now:
"Oh it's about fertility, so it must be a female, and let's make her pink with hearts and name it based on love, because girls are all about love and ponies and pink, but instead of ponies, make it a turtle."
C r e a t i v e
I can argue that a Jynx evolution would literally have served the same purpose, looked better, and actually make more sense, seeing it be right in line with the description of the previous evolution. Large busty women like forms also being associated with fertility as an example. And if that's too on the nose for you, look back at the monstrosity that literally has hearts drawn on it. I rest my case!
@DevinRex Honestly, the National Pokedex was never going to come back.
@mr-duster The problem is, it should come back, but Game Freak doesn't care.
@DevinRex There is no "should', and it's not about Game Freak "caring". The National Pokedex was never going to stay in the series, whether Game Freak cared or not. It just wasn't going to happen.
@DevinRex I can agree with us having different views - I think Rhyperior looks incredibly dumb with the extra horn and I’m neutral on Electivire overall.
While I agree that women have been over-sexualized in Japan, I disagree with your view on Enamorus being solely born from this view. Many fertility goddesses in antiquity have been based off of women and female anatomy that predates Japan’s mythology.
Also disagree on your assessment of Jynx. Jynx and her line is more a inspired “gyaru” culture and fashion rather than any fertility deity. Also their Pokédex entries allude more to femininity in general as opposed to fertility. There’s Smoochum’s fascination with kissing, but that could just be an allusion to the fact babies put stuff in their mouth than a comment on femininity. Plus, the dex implies this behavior doesn’t carry on in its evolved form - or at least it’s not a significant enough occurrence to comment on.
In response to your turtle comment: turtles in Chinese mythology are actually thought to improve sexual performance, more fitting for the fertility aspect. It’s form as a turtle also alludes to the black turtle, a creature in the same league as the other genies’ therian forms.
@mr-duster There is a should, and there is a care.
Game Freak doesn't find it feasible anymore to do so, because they don't make any money from it. They should do it, because that's what the community wants. They don't care, because it's not in their best interest of nickel and dimeing features on every modern Pokemon game. Saying "It just wasn't gonna happen" is easy to do in hind sight.
Before sword and shield were announced, Pokemon Home gave everyone the impression that they'll be moved to the next game without any limitations. #Dexitgate wouldn't exist without that fact. The franchise is called "Pokemon - gotta catch them all" not "Pokemon - gotta catch some of them and leave out the others because we're too lazy to include every monster".
@Ramen756 - Agree to disagree mate.
@DevinRex No. There is NOT a "care" or "should". And it doesn't go "some of them and leave out others because we're too lazy to include every monster". This isn't about "laziness". It never was. I am sick and tired of you people demonizing Game Freak/The Pokemon Company and blowing things out of proportion just because you didn't get what you wanted. They don't have to do what the community wants, because they're not your slaves. They're a corporate entity that isn't obligated to kiss up to you.
Now Hisuian Arcanine in SV has rock head making it immune to recoil damage from flare blitz, head smash, and wild charge
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