@Zidentia I have a hobby to reply to these kind of comments, trying to explain basic stuff to those who do not understand the concept of speedruns. So yeah, I joined for that purpose =).
What exactly is "intended play" in every single scenario? For Ocarina of Time, you were likely not intended to play it fast to begin with. The developers must have intended you to take your time to explore, to talk to NPCs, to open random chests, to struggle with enemies, to die against bosses, to get lost in Lost Woods etc. Yes, stretching the "intended" term a bit, but when that's the kind of definition you want for a speedrun, it becomes and impossibility to define. It doesn't matter what the developers may or may not have intended for you to do with a game, it's up to the player to decide. The person who invented the ball didn't make the rules for all the ball sports in the world, the players did.
Yes, we let the game decide. The game's code is the rules. We can not change what was originally made, the code is what is intended. "Glitchless" runs do exist, as mentioned, but there are many grey zones to what you should and should not be allowed to do. There are still many skips that can be done without using glitches.
I don't mind people not enjoying glitches, it's not for everyone and I agree that they can be a bit too much. Though as for speedrunning, they have been a part of them since speedrunning began in mid 90's, it's part of the default rules, no cheating, no matter what one's opinion may be on the matter.
@Zidentia The problem is defining what a bug/glitch is in every single scenario. There have been glitches were developers have claimed that they were left in the game on purpose. Shigeru Miyamoto talked about glitches in Super Mario Bros. being "more like features". Some indie developers have reached out to speedrunners, the runners found a huge exploit and the developers made it into a major feature in the game.
It's impossible to define everything. That's why we instead let the game decide: If it works according to the game's code, it is allowed to be used. It's neccesary to have such category where everything within the game is allowed to be used. As soon as you start banning stuff, you need to carefully state what and why, which can often result in quite arbitary definition where it's solely based on opinions.
There's also the side that glitches, in most cases, make the run a lot more skillful than without. Super Mario Bros. being a perfect example where the minor glitches used don't save much time at all, the run still look quite similar but it's insanely difficult to execute. There is no challenge in glitchless, there is nothing impressive about it in comparision. It's just an "easy mode" category that lacks serious competition.
But because glitches can be quite major, there are different categories on how to play the game. Where certain, or all, glitches are banned. But, as mentioned; this can be tricky to define, it can take a community years to come up with a good ruleset (Ocarina of Time being such example).
@Rhaoulos Speedruns use glitches as default. For rules to make logical sense, you have to have a category where everything within the game is allowed to be used. If the game's code allow it, it is allowed. The "previous" any% category is also using glitches.
Sometimes, heavy glitches can indeed make the run uninteresting. This type of glitch can be done in many different games, Super Mario World in 45 seconds being one of them. But because these ways of beating the game exist, there are also other categories where certain, or all, glitches are disallowed.
Comments 3
Re: Random: Record-Breaking Speedrun Trick Makes Star Fox's Arwings Spawn In Zelda: Ocarina Of Time
@Zidentia I have a hobby to reply to these kind of comments, trying to explain basic stuff to those who do not understand the concept of speedruns. So yeah, I joined for that purpose =).
What exactly is "intended play" in every single scenario? For Ocarina of Time, you were likely not intended to play it fast to begin with. The developers must have intended you to take your time to explore, to talk to NPCs, to open random chests, to struggle with enemies, to die against bosses, to get lost in Lost Woods etc. Yes, stretching the "intended" term a bit, but when that's the kind of definition you want for a speedrun, it becomes and impossibility to define. It doesn't matter what the developers may or may not have intended for you to do with a game, it's up to the player to decide. The person who invented the ball didn't make the rules for all the ball sports in the world, the players did.
Yes, we let the game decide. The game's code is the rules. We can not change what was originally made, the code is what is intended. "Glitchless" runs do exist, as mentioned, but there are many grey zones to what you should and should not be allowed to do. There are still many skips that can be done without using glitches.
I don't mind people not enjoying glitches, it's not for everyone and I agree that they can be a bit too much. Though as for speedrunning, they have been a part of them since speedrunning began in mid 90's, it's part of the default rules, no cheating, no matter what one's opinion may be on the matter.
Re: Random: Record-Breaking Speedrun Trick Makes Star Fox's Arwings Spawn In Zelda: Ocarina Of Time
@Zidentia The problem is defining what a bug/glitch is in every single scenario. There have been glitches were developers have claimed that they were left in the game on purpose. Shigeru Miyamoto talked about glitches in Super Mario Bros. being "more like features". Some indie developers have reached out to speedrunners, the runners found a huge exploit and the developers made it into a major feature in the game.
It's impossible to define everything. That's why we instead let the game decide: If it works according to the game's code, it is allowed to be used. It's neccesary to have such category where everything within the game is allowed to be used. As soon as you start banning stuff, you need to carefully state what and why, which can often result in quite arbitary definition where it's solely based on opinions.
There's also the side that glitches, in most cases, make the run a lot more skillful than without. Super Mario Bros. being a perfect example where the minor glitches used don't save much time at all, the run still look quite similar but it's insanely difficult to execute. There is no challenge in glitchless, there is nothing impressive about it in comparision. It's just an "easy mode" category that lacks serious competition.
But because glitches can be quite major, there are different categories on how to play the game. Where certain, or all, glitches are banned. But, as mentioned; this can be tricky to define, it can take a community years to come up with a good ruleset (Ocarina of Time being such example).
Re: Random: Record-Breaking Speedrun Trick Makes Star Fox's Arwings Spawn In Zelda: Ocarina Of Time
@Rhaoulos Speedruns use glitches as default. For rules to make logical sense, you have to have a category where everything within the game is allowed to be used. If the game's code allow it, it is allowed. The "previous" any% category is also using glitches.
Sometimes, heavy glitches can indeed make the run uninteresting. This type of glitch can be done in many different games, Super Mario World in 45 seconds being one of them. But because these ways of beating the game exist, there are also other categories where certain, or all, glitches are disallowed.