One particularly bright spot in Sonic's recent history was the release of Sonic Mania. One part sequel and one part reimagining of the 2D classics, that retro revival proved to be one of the best-rated and best-selling Sonic projects in recent years. In the (frankly baffling) absence of a true follow-up to Sonic Mania, Sega has instead opted to look to that game’s inspiration for Sonic’s latest 2D release. Billed as Sonic Origins, this new collection presents all the original four Sonic games—including the rarely re-released Sonic 3 & Knuckles—in enhanced widescreen format with the new option to treat all the 2D entries as if they were all one big game. The end result is, well, exactly what you’d expect. All these classic Sonic games look better than ever with their new presentation and some light quality of life updates, but those of you who have already run through Green Hill Zone more times than you can count may be left wishing for a little more.
Clearly, the main draw of this package is the original 16-bit platformers and we’re happy to report that they each remain tremendously enjoyable in their own way. There’s good reason why so many Sonic fans remember these games so fondly (and perhaps a little longingly), and that’s because these games really got what Sonic is all about. No overwrought stories and bizarre self-insert characters here, just a blue dude with a ‘tude who fights an evil mustache man to save a bunch of animals and, eventually, the world.
There’s a clear maturation to be observed with each release here; the original Sonic the Hedgehog presented a rougher, but cohesive vision of that high-speed, momentum-based platforming and each subsequent sequel took it in a new direction with interesting new ideas. Sonic CD, for example, focused more on exploration and toyed with a time travel mechanic which saw you visiting the past to alter the future. Meanwhile, Sonic 3 & Knuckles included elemental shields that gave Sonic new moves. The level designs slowly became more refined over time, too, with Sonic 3 & Knuckles representing a near-perfect realization of that mixture of blazing fast, flowing level design and slower, more measured platforming parts.
Everyone probably has their reasons for why one game was better or worse than the other, but the point is that it’s very hard to go wrong with any of these releases. Even the first game, which feels a little simplistic by comparison, handles like a dream and provides plenty of thrills. Plus, there’s an option to experience all the games as one continuous experience—complete with some cute animated cutscenes—and this helps sidestep any issues you may have with the short length of each individual entry. None of these games last more than five hours (they're 30-year-old 2D platformers, after all), but playing them all back-to-back as one big game makes for an interesting and surprisingly cohesive experience.
Each game can be played in either Classic Mode—where the original life system features and each title is displayed in its original aspect ratio—or Anniversary Mode, which is arguably one of the main draws here. Anniversary Mode retrofits each title with modern improvements like widescreen support, Sonic’s Drop Dash move from Sonic Mania (and the Spin Dash in the case of Sonic 1), and the option to play as other characters like Tails and Knuckles in games they didn’t originally feature in. The new embellishments don’t do much to change the core experience—these are remasters, not remakes—but we thought they do a good job of presenting these classics in the best light possible. Sonic’s Drop Dash, for example, feels like an entirely natural addition that gives you one additional tool for maintaining speed as you zoom through levels.
New to this collection is a Mission Mode, which contains a couple of dozen bite-size challenges for each game. These will have you doing things like clearing a certain portion of a stage while defeating a given number of foes or surviving a level with only one ring. Each mission has a star rating to indicate its difficulty and the speed at which you meet the objective determines what rank you get. Higher ranks will earn you more coins (coins, not rings), giving you some incentive to meet the narrow requirements of that coveted ‘S’ Rank. Though nothing revolutionary, we enjoyed the rapid-fire structure of these missions; they often cause you to think about a level in a way that you wouldn’t normally, and later ones demand you pull off some advanced tricks to finish them on time.
Additionally, there’s a Boss Mode and a Mirror Mode to fool around with. The former tasks you with running a gauntlet of bosses with no or some rings and three lives and the latter simply mirrors the levels. Both are welcome inclusions and good for mixing things up a bit, but feel a little shallow once you’ve adjusted to their gimmicks.
Using the coins earned from across all modes, you can then go into the game’s museum to spend them on soundtracks, pieces of concept art, and brief videos and animations from across Sonic’s history. Although it feels like this museum portion is a little light on content, we appreciated having something that ties together your progress across all four games. There’s a nice sense of accomplishment to slowly unlocking and filling out the museum collection; a welcome addition to the already-rewarding experience of playing each game.
One thing that we think bears mentioning is that, pleasant though it may be, Sonic Origins simply represents yet another rerelease of these classic Sonic games, and a rather expensive one at that. Aside from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, we’ve seen most of these classic Sonic games released in some form on virtually every gaming platform (and Tesla) over the last several years—some of them are even available on the Switch (multiple times, in fact) via other releases and services.
The point is, this is a great collection for anyone out there who hasn’t played any classic Sonic games and is looking for a worthwhile entry point, but we’d encourage those of you who have already played these games to death to take a beat and ask if it’s really worth it to you to rebuy them again; if the answer is yes, take a second beat to ask if it's not worth waiting for a sale. There’s very little about this release that easily validates a double-dip; it’s simply all the old Sonic games featuring some nice, but inessential modern tweaks.
We feel it also must be said that there is a lingering sense that this collection could’ve been so much more. The four games on offer here are certainly well-presented and enjoyable, but something like Sonic Spinball, Sonic 3D Blast, or the far lesser-known Knuckles' Chaotix might have helped justify that $40 price tag. What about save states or a rewind feature like many other classic collections? Why isn't there the option to play Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles separately? The replacement of several Sonic 3 audio tracks which infamously featured contributions from Michael Jackson is another sticking point if you adore the originals, especially when Sega is billing this as the 'ultimate' way to play them. The new tracks aren't terrible (and they aren't really new, either), but they're not the bangers we remember from the '90s.
Then there’s the matter that features like harder missions in Mission Mode or some screen borders in classic mode are gated behind DLC that Sega wants you to buy separately from the base release. We don’t want to be too quick to judge a release based on what it isn’t instead of what it is, but it feels like Sega is being a bit tightfisted with this; it’s fine for what it is, but what’s here feels more like a $20 game than a $40 one.
Sonic Origins is simply more of the same, which is both its greatest strength and weakness. On one hand, it’s a near-definitive way to experience four stone-cold classics that represent some of the highest peaks of Sonic's career. On the other, most of these games are already readily available and there aren’t many new features or additions to justify buying them yet again. If you don’t already have a reliable or convenient way of playing these games now, or this is genuinely your first time playing through them, then we’d say that Sonic Origins is the go-to way to experience Sonic’s 2D heyday. Otherwise, we’d encourage you to either wait for this to go on sale or just pass on it.
i do have to wonder why they shoved flickies' island and the veg-o-matic in there as 3D models, along with the music as dlc, if the related games weren't included
This game deserves a 11 out of 10, maybe a 110 out of 10 just because the tweets of Yuji Naka.
I think I'll wait for a sale. I want to play as Knuckles through all of these games again, but I own these games on sooooooo many platforms already, it's just not worth it. Besides, this should have been done with Mania graphics... a missed opportunity.
I decided to skip on this for now. I have so many ways to play these games already.
Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles aren't separate? Blech that was a big deal breaker for me. I'll wait for a physical should it show and cheap at that.
There aren't save states? That's odd.
@Gryffin I think it autosaves between levels, but you can’t save state mid-level. I don’t have the game, but that’s what I’ve heard.
It’s just far too expensive for what is (mostly) games that have been released a million times before.
So Mitch doesn't mention ANY bugs or glitches? Wonderful! Seems that he, just as myself and the other reviewers I've seen on YT, has had no problems with the Switch version whatsoever. I reckon its the PC version thats the main culpret here, thanks to Sega's insistence of using Denuvo for all their releases for the first few months, before quietly removing it later. This is the exact reason I've not bought it on Steam yet. Switch version runs beautifully though
Only very minor issues I've had are Tails getting stuck behind a couple of times for a bit, and the physics of the Drop Dash in Sonic 1 & 2 seem slightly stiffer than in the CD, S3+K and Mania... not really a problem for me as that move was never in those games anyway, so I don't naturally do it.
As for the review, well written and I agree with pretty much everything here... other than I would give it a 9/10 and say its very much worth the money for a Sonic fan, because its now the definitive way to play these games, and convenient on modern systems (can finally unplug my Android console from the TV!)
Sure, I wish more games were included and the museum stuff had more deep dive content, and the silly DLC situation makes no sense, but this is now my chosen way to play 4/5 of my favourite games ever, and makes all other versions feel mostly obsolete. The only real downer is the loss of those original S3 tracks. With them, and a few obvious (and easy to patch in) tweaks like making Knuckles playable in SCD, having the option to separate S3 and S+K, and being able to switch between S2 & S3 sprite in all games, I'd have happily called it a 10/10, even with no other games or content.
10/10 I think. It’s better than what Nintendo did in the 3D Mario collection, sega have done a fantastic job here they have raised the bar for collection's. Value for money!
A lot of the "anniversary" content was first implemented in Whitehead's "remasters" of Sonic 1, 2, and CD. So even that content isn't new to this collection. Really a disappointing release, especially for $40.
Because your previous review of a Genesis compilation that had crazy input lag with Sonic 1 and 2 didn't even mention it, is this compilation free of such an issue?
This is the same writer who did the KOTOR 2 review. He didn't finish that one, since there was no mention of the game breaking bug. Hopefully he actually played all these through before this was written.
Ill pick this up later when its on sale.
@sleepinglion The games are ported to the retro engine, so are running natively, not through emulation. There is therefore no input lag. Its the same as Sonic Mania, if you've played that.
Only hitches you'd get is if playing on PC and Denuvo slowing things down by meddling in the background with OS stuff - for some people thats causing slowdown, framedrops, or lag, but thats on PC only.
All things considered, it's a price tag that's too high for games that gamers of a certain age have bought multiple times over the last 30 years.
To say nothing of the lack of preservation for S3&K, what with the removed content.
I'm not sure who Sega thinks the target audience is for this, but I'm okay with not being in it.
I haven't played Sonic CD since the mid 90's. I'd love to play it again but I doubt I'll be picking up this collection. I can't justify it as I'd only be buying it for CD and 3&K. I just played through SEGA AGES Sonic 2 not long ago.
Sounds like it’s a wait till it’s £15
Coming soon to an eShop near you... Sonic Origins 2! Featuring Sonic Spinball, Sonic 3D Blast, the Sonic Game Gear games and Flickie's Island. All for the bargain basement price of another £35.
On a serious note though, this really should have been so much better.
It's not all doom and gloom... the games that are included all play really well. There's some great new features, I like the Museum in particular, and the videos (clearly where ALL the budget got spent!!) are genuinely great.
What a shame the overall package fell so short.
Anniversary. Celebration. Are SEGA taking us for fools or what?
I would like to know what happened to the guy who claimed he had a physical preorder, like was he lying or did he actually think he had one?
I didn’t double dip. I was waiting for these wide screen versions to come to Switch. Didn’t make sense to release the older versions when iOS/Android Sonic games had wide screen support for years.
So this will be my second Sonic purchase after Sonic Mania. It looks great, but for me the price is too expensive for a digital only release. I expect them to announce a physical release at later date. I already waited years the wide screen versions coming to Switch, can wait a bit longer.
@Pandy-the-Panda not that discusion again. That guy was really annoying and I am glad he is gone
@Pandy-the-Panda Considering they set up 3 sock puppet accounts to troll me and a couple of others, I'm guessing they were making up the whole thing. Unless they were SO sure they were right, that it motivated them to set up the sock puppets and start trolling afterwards lol.
But yeah, I'm looking forward to them coming here and responding with a photo of their brand new physical copy they picked up from the game store yesterday! I'll be super jealous.
Actually in this case leaving out save states makes sense. Sonic Origins isn’t emulating any rom’s, each game is a full remaster and are meant to be experienced the same way Sonic Mania was, so they didn’t want people abusing save states. However special stages can be retried using coins and each game does autosave after every stage and even after every checkpoint, so saves can still be abused if you’re smart.
I really wish they would have tossed the GameGear games on here too as a bonus. That would have put me over the edge to spend $40. Now I will wait for a deep sale to even consider.
@Gryffin The save system is actually awesome. Each mode has it's own save state and the games save automatically. (I had fun jumping in and out of Classic Mode and Anniversary mode.) You don't have to beat levels either, the games save at checkpoints too. There IS one game that has save states: Sonic 3. That's because the game always had save states.
@samuelvictor What's your favourite Sonic game? I will say 2 is my favourite because of nostalgia. I remember Sonic Twosday well, I had an 'upset stomach' on that school day.... I never really enjoyed 3 at the time and never played S&K till many years later. However after eventually playing S&K, some time around 2012, I realised it probably is the best Sonic game. If I'd played it back in the day, it would probably be my favourite too.
@SonicTheHedgehogs The GameGear games and the Sega Master System remakes are the only additional games that would have made sense to add since this is an "Origins" Collection.
@Pandy-the-Panda This may be conspiracy theory, but Sega might have had plans for a physical release all along. If you look at the eShop best sellers list it divides games into ones with Physical releases and ones that are download only. Sonic Origins Digital Deluxe is listed in the physical section, but plan old Origins is listed as download only. (It would make sense to only have Digital Deluxe at retail.) Also the price. Nintendo says that digital releases must have the same price as physical editions. I think $45 is a pretty high price, but it's not high if your intention was to release physically at that price point. My guess is there was just a time crunch, and they wouldn't have been able to manufacture the physical games in time for Sonic's birthday release. But they didn't want to hurt current sales for future sales, so they aren't talking about a physical release. That's my theory.
@sleepinglion Yes, there is no input lag
@OorWullie Overall favourite 2d Sonic game is probably Mania, its just all done so well and pitched perfectly.
Sonic 2 is definitely the MD game I have the most nostalgia for, and pick up and play the most often for a quick nostalgia hit. If I'm in the mood for a longer play session, Sonic 3 & Knuckles combined is brilliant and arguably the better game, but its definitely more of a commitment and takes more of my concentration to play it, rather than S2 & S1 that I can turn my brain off and beat through muscle memory!
Whilst I did own and enjoy Sonic CD back in the day, I never really fully got behind the time travel mechanic... it was actually the Whitehead/Stealth port for Android that got me back into that game and appreciate it a lot more than I used to. I also owned Chaotix which is an extremely flawed game but I love the characters and music. 3D Blast/Flickies Island is also a guilty pleasure, just for the novelty and how cool the graphics looked, back in the day they blew me away.
I'm actually incredibly fond of the 8bit games, especially the Master System versions of S1 and Sonic Chaos, as these were the first that I owned, before my family could afford a Megadrive, and I feel they hold up very well. It warms my heart to see people mentioning them in almost every Origins post, like @thinkhector and @SonicTheHedgehogs in this one! I've long dreamed of a Retro Engine style remake of the 8bit games. I recently got so excited for Origins, but frustrated at the lack of interest from Sega in the 8bit titles, that I started to develop my own "Sonic 8bit Origins" fangame in my spare time as a hobby. If Sega won't do it, I decided to do it myself, because I desperately want to play those games in widescreen and without slowdown
SEGA AGES Sonic CD should have been a thing.
@Yosti Man, I just made this comment a minute ago! But I am going to say it again. I think you are right. The price point of this game doesn't make sense, UNLESS this was going to be the price of the physical release. Which would make sense since Nintendo forces developers to match their eShop price to their physical cartridge. Headcannon (makers of the iOS remasters) just said that they barely got this game out in time for Sonic's birthday. That means there was just NOW WAY there going to be able to manufacture cartridges in time too. Anyways, this will give them time to add patches and release a more bug free physical game.
Most likely a sale purchase
I'm a pretty hardcore Sonic fan and I'm more than pleased; The only thing that slightly bothers me is the Super Sonic music in S3K, but that's about it.
This collection is well worth the money imo.
@Wool_Sheep weren't Sonic 3 And Knuckles always meant to be the same game
The new TMNT game and Sonic Mania gave you entirely new experiences with reverence for old titles at half the price. I WILL buy this eventually... just not at this price point.
this is a joke compared to the sonic mega collections
A solid 10/10. The huge amount of music in the museum makes up for a few lost tracks. The "double dip" is more than justified because these are HD remakes of masterpieces, with better presentation and additional characters and moves, including both the insta-shield and drop dash in 3&K. The only negative thing that cannot be justified is that the Sonic CD opening and ending have not been remade. They look like a 90s VHS tape.
For anyone on PC, there is a discount available here, which takes it down to a more acceptable price:
It's very possible that the PC version will also get fan-mods to restore the music and maybe solve some of the other issues with the collection.
@Splodge Unfortunately, the PC release of Sonic Origins also uses Denuvo DRM.
@Banjo- The upscaling & remaster of the Sonic CD opening and ending is by far the best we've ever gotten though - its much better than the previous remaster for the mobile versions. A remake of them in widescreen and with colours & line thicknesses to match the other cutscenes would have been great, but I think many would have thought that sacriligious if the originals weren't at least unlockable.
@OwenGamer22 Rock on! Thanks
@samuelvictor Yep, at least optionally. The new cutscenes are gorgeous.
"There’s good reason why so many Sonic fans remember these games so fondly (and perhaps a little longingly), and that’s because these games really got what Sonic is all about. No overwrought stories and bizarre self-insert characters here, just a blue dude with a ‘tude who fights an evil mustache man to save a bunch of animals and, eventually, the world."
Disagree here. What I think the games fundamentally are about are that Sonic controls like a ball, that can roll up and down etc. and has a certain momentum and way of moving. That's the core of the gameplay and what makes the games fun. It's also what all the post MD Sonics (other than Mania) get wrong or miss, at least the few I've played.
@spacely_sprockets I agree. This review is a bit ridiculous. This collection will be a timeless must-have soon.
@Baler value for money?
With all due respect, Sega are charging £33 for games that have released at a fraction of the price previously.
Emulation, and extras aside, let’s be real here - they have the audacity to charge an extra £4 for the Deluxe Edition - these should have been included in the standalone price, no surprise considering Sega were charging £5 per character on Monkey Ball DLC.
If you want to talk about value for money - Pac-Man Museum is £15 cheaper at £17.99 and contains 14 games.
The Mega Drive collection (which also includes Sonic 1 and 2) is £25 and contains FIFTY games.
There is no real reason why this should be priced at £33…
Heck - the previous Sonic collections on the GameCube contained more games than what are contained here…
I’ve never given these games a try on home consoles, so I might as well give this a shot. However, the DLC-locked features and laziness in making advertised features work seem to make it another chapter in “Sega does not know what to do with the Sonic IP.” Even the simplest concepts, like porting over 3 beloved games (and Sonic 1) that they’ve already ported over countless times, they find some way to mess it up.
@Banjo- a timeless must have?
Come on buddy..I love these games, but let’s not forget how many times they’ve been re released over the years.
Previous Sonic collections included more games, yet Sonic fans are getting rabid about this. I don’t care how good the emulation is, how nice the intro is, or the museum extras - most of these games have been done to death multiple times over at this stage..
If this comes out in physical form I’m sure I’ll pick it up, but it won’t offer much that I, or most seasoned Sonic fans haven’t experienced before…
@spacely_sprockets I mean, I completely get what that quote from the review is saying. Later games over complicated things and adding hundreds of new characters spoiled the "special"-ness of early characters that truly brought something new, like Tails and Knuckles.
But I completely, 100% agree with you about Sonic's movement - this is exactly what 90% of the modern games get wrong for me. Even the ones that I like don't have the same feeling of guiding a ball and using the bounce, momentum etc to move in the fastest and most elegant way possible. Sonic Adventure threw that all out with the auto targeting and locking on, and Sega never looked back. It loses a lot of what makes the early 2d games so satisfying to master, and makes the modern games feel like they play themselves a lot of the time.
Of course I own several versions of the first two games, but I'd really love to play Sonic 3 and CD again (because I only have 1~2 versions of those but not the hardware to play them on), but the lack of save states is troubling... playing through Sonic Mania reminded me of how the maze-like levels in the later Sonic games get pretty tedious pretty quickly. Or maybe it's not as bad as that in the older games.
@Andy77mk I disagree.
@nocdaes looking at how blindly rabid a lot of Sonic fans can be, I’d honestly say yes - the hardcore fans out there are rejoicing over this without really acknowledging that these games have been re released too many times over the years to count.
They’re classic games and I’m sure they play great in this collection, but it really isn’t anything that we haven’t seen before.
@samuelvictor Do you remember Sonic the Hedgehog 4 physics? 😂
@Andy77mk Not wanting to argue but these aren't emulation and these versions have never been available before. They are ground up remakes in a modern engine with many QOL improvements. Its like playing the classic levels remade in Sonic Mania.
S1,2 & CD did admittedly technically have this treatment already from the same team, but they were only available on mobiles so it hardly counts for a mainstream console audience as being available. Personally though, the quality of these mobile ports was so high that it made me find it hard to go back to the old versions, its like night and day. I even spent over £150 to get an Android console and pad so that I could play them on the TV because I prefered them so much over the originals. To now have these definitive versions available on all modern platforms, plus S3+K remade in the same way, and the little extras like challenges and modes, for me as an admittedly "rabid" fan, it really does feel more than worth the asking price, and I can't imagine ever wanting to go back to emulation.
I think the true target for this (other than us crazy fans) is actually the ever growing group of new young fans coming from the movies, tv shows and modern games, and giving them the best possible way to experience the original games for the first time, with the modern conveniences and improvements making the experience far more liekly to be positive than if they played emulated ones and were put off by the screen crop, slowdown, and permadeath... let alone the input lag present in almost all compilation versions.
@Banjo- not here to argue, but the collection is £33 - £37 if you want the luxury of adding menu animations and extra music. Sega are absolutely fleecing their fan base and the extra £4 for the ‘deluxe’ content which really shouldn’t be a chargeable extra proves this.
For the sake of comparison - Mega Drive classics is priced around £25. It contains 50 games, including Sonic 1 and 2.
The recently released Pac-Man museum contains 14 games for £17.
There is little to no justification why this should be priced the way it is. And I get it - new intro, a couple of new modes and a museum.
But it really isn’t anything that we haven’t seen countless times up to this point.
I’m not bemoaning these games - they’re all bonafide classics - but looking at certain comments online you’d think Sega have reinvented the wheel here…
@Banjo- Good lord. Everything about that game gives me nightmares. The fact they released something that awful and had the audacity to name it that... something inside me died that day. Far more egregious than any of the 3d mis-steps. I genuinely have to pretend to myself that it doesn't exist, it hurts my soul to be reminded of it! lol
@samuelvictor I agree 100% (#57) and don't forget the additional moves and characters that expand the already awesome gameplay further. For instance, the drop dash has been added to all the games and Knuckles is available in the first one. These are the definitive versions and the only time that 3&K has been remade in HD.
@samuelvictor to the vast majority of people out there though, the work put into the games won’t be noticeable.
I’ve got the original trilogy on countless devices, and haven’t felt that a single one of those ports plays badly. They’ve all been a joy to control.
Is the work put into this collection really THAT noticeable?
To prove I’m not here to argue - I want to eventually pick this up; ideally when/if it comes via a physical edition, and at a reasonable port. I absolutely enjoy these games, and Sonic CD isn’t as represented compared to the Mega Drive trilogy.
But to me, I get the feeling that I’ll experience the games in pretty much the same manner as before..
@Andy77mk Super Mario 3D Almost-All Stars (that I also pre-ordered) was more expensive, it's emulation and skipped SMG2 for no reason. The extras is a bare-bones music player. Sonic Origins is so generous compared to anything that Nintendo has done since Metroid Prime Trilogy on Wii (that was Retro's idea). Sonic Origins reminds me of the original Super Mario All Stars.
If you emulate the original Sonic 3 with the original Michael Jackson music, that's double the piracy. I think that's how it works.
@Banjo- I’m not comparing this to 3D All Stars - that was a lazy emulation job, and absolutely should of included Galaxy 2.
This isn’t about comparing it to anything Nintendo have done.
I’m simply stating that other collections offer far more value for money - £25 for 50 Mega Drive games, £18 for 14 Pac-Man games, £12 for 6 Mega Man games…the list goes on.
@Banjo- Agreed. Although it feels like the drop dash isn't implemented into S1&2 quite as well as it could have been, I have a feeling this is one of the things Stealth wanted to tweak... the physics for it are off compared to S3+K, CD and Mania. I forgot that Knuckles wasn't playable in S1 on mobile, thats a big improvement. Still wish they'd added him to CD though.
@Andy77mk I can certainly agree it should have been cheaper. But the price isn't ridiculous by any standards. Now, Mario 3D All Stars at $60 - THAT was fleecing the fans with a zero effort product disrespecting 3 of the best games ever.
Sure, more could have been done to Origins. Obvious ommissions are having the extra games like the 8bit ones, Sonic 3D, Spinball, Mean Bean, and Chaotix as unlockable roms... at that point people would finally stop saying how Mega Collection was such a bargain (needed to spend $40 for both to get CD, inferior game gear ports, emulation actually pretty poor, especially sound).
Obviously how noticable input lag or emulation issues are going to be to you might be far less than it is for me, thats a personal thing. But I can promise you that the extra field of view, lack of any slowdown, extra frames of animation, smoothing of the gimmicks, completely overhauled special stages are all complete game changers - and being able to play as Tails or Knuckles in games that didn't previously have them, adding Spindash and Dropdash, being able to switch between soundtrack versions, these are all very, very nice additions. I've also been surprised how great the missions are And of course the animated story bits typing it all together with the stories that were previously only text printed in the manuals is really lovely.
 Ah I see Banjo beat me to the 3D All Stars comparisson. I LOVE Mario 64 like its my own child but still I felt so burned by that whole debacle.
@Andy77mk But those are like running emulators on PC. They can't be compared to Sonic Origins or, if you want another example, to the 3DS remakes (that only include 1 and 2).
@samuelvictor glad you’re enjoying it..
Like I said, I’m sure I’ll pick it up, but I’m holding off until any possible physical version is announced.
Completely agree with you in relation to the SMB3D collection!
@Banjo- again - you’re not getting the point.
None of the games in the Mega Drive collection needed to have the ‘worked from the ground up’. There were 50 games that all played well, for a bargain price.
Same with the Pac-Man museum collection. Did any of the reviews mention that it’s a shame that those games weren’t worked from the ground up? No. Because 14 games for £18 is phenomenal value for money.
I’m glad you’re enjoying Origins, but for the vast majority out there, they won’t notice, or care, about the extra work put into this. Heck - I have the Sonic Collection on the GameCube and emulated or not, they all play fantastically well without any extra work needing to be put into them.
@Andy77mk That's why my first reply was I disagree, because we disagree.
For the record, I have Sonic Mega Collection and Sega Mega Drive Classics.
@Banjo- which you’re absolutely entitled to, but I sometimes think the bias shown by hardcore fans can sometimes cloud their judgement.
I’m glad you enjoy this. They’re all great games, but the price on this is steep. And the fact Sega are charging even more for menu animations and additional music is downright disgusting.
Would fans of been equally happy if we had the previous ‘best’ versions of these games ported to this collection, with all the extras, at a cheaper price?
I think a lot of Sonic fans would of taken it regardless, it seems to be one of ‘those’ kinds of fan bases were any kind of criticism is ignored..
@Wool_Sheep Why would you want 3&K separate?
Not saying you're wrong for wanting that, but that's not a preference I've heard of before and I'm curious
@Andy77mk I'm 100% certain physcial is coming relatively soon. They be insane not to. I'm sure they are just doing it so crazy fans like me will double dip.
And to your point of otehr compilations, I agree that the various Capcom and Konami collections are extremely well put together and bargains, especially as they often go on sale! Thankfully the emulation for them is decent. The recent Megadrive compilation is sadly completely unplayable to me, the timing is so far off it breaks my muscle memory. And Namco keep not getting money out of me by censoring and altering their roms and refusing to include my favourite games in them... though I have bought several of the ACA single Namco games. I think thats the difference - I'm happier to pay £6 for a single game thats presented perfectly, than £20 for a compilation thats not ideal. Perhaps its my autism or OCD or something but it just rubs me up the wrong way. I concede that many wouldn't feel the same as me though, and thats ok!
@samuelvictor I guess that’s where we differ! I think I play Sonic games far more casually and from memory, the versions in the Mega Drive collection were playable.
I still have the Mega Drive carts, so I try and play on original hardware when possible…
I suppose value is subjective from person to person - who am I to tell you or anyone else that this is in no way worth the price being charged? I’m sure I’ve paid over the odds plenty of times previously for products..
@Fabaroo I've seen quite a few asking for this. I imagine its because they grew up only owning either one or the other, and having nostalgia for playing only Sonic 3, or only Sonic & Knuckles, rather than combining them. Theres probably a lot of people who only owned S3 and who's parents refused to buy another full price Sonic game less tahn 6 months later.
Personally, I'm fine with it being combined, thats always been the way I've played it, and its what the devs originally wanted. But I can understand people having nostalgia for the way they used to play. I don't get why its not included as an option, it wouldn't have taken more than a few of lines or programming to add a toggle to start and stop at different points if a menu option was on.
@Andy77mk Not at all. I'm very critical of everything (especially, modern Nintendo) and usually reply or ignore blind fanboys. I promise you that the difference between emulated releases and these remakes is very noticeable and that's why I have to defend this while criticising Sonic Forces that is a very bad game in my opinion. It's not the Sonic fan in me.
Would've liked for the Master System games to return at least as unlockables... But, we just HAD to have letterboxed backgrounds!
@Banjo- end of the day, the main thing is that YOU enjoy it. I can’t tell you otherwise!
Personally, I’d be happier to wait for a physical version, and then for a sale, before picking it up.
Looking at your comments and those of @samuelvictor, I’m curious as to whether I’d be able to tell the difference in how this collection plays compared to other versions.
And as I’m a sucker for legacy content like museum modes as well as decent work put into the presentation of a package (the intro movie and menus look slick!)
Also - as I only own Sonic CD on the Xbox, I’m still very much interested in checking this out, although it can wait for a while.
@Andy77mk Yeah definitely! I'm not wanting to argue and I totally understand the people waiting for a sale or happy with the versions they've got. As I said, I don't think thats the target market - its having modern versions that will be more acceptible to newcomers in a convenient and easy way to play. Sonic's young fanbase is rapidly growing, and theres already tonnes of millenials and Gen Z who grew pu with the 3d games and didn't play the 2d ones, but may be curious to try them out, and again these versions are likely to give the best first impression.
And I too collect retro consoles and games and usually will always pick playing on original hardware where possible But as I said, these new versions have always been good enough for me to actually give up the originals and only want to play the improved versions. It really is a huge improivement whilst retainign everything that made me love the originals. Its exceptionally rare to find remakes that I prefer to the originals. These might actually be the only example I can think of... hmm.
@NotArmani I agree and disagree with you on that.
On one hand, It would be nice as it would offer a bit more variety and value for money.
On the other, they’re not really classic games or comparable to the 16 bit games, so including them would bring down the quality of the overall game selection.
@samuelvictor I’m also fully self aware that I’m a hypocrite by saying these are overpriced considered how many times I’ve previously brought Sonic 1 and 2.
I also think I must own just about every version of (NES) Super Mario Bros!
I’ve had Persona Strikers delivered today and have Three Hopes being delivered this afternoon, and have Pocky and Rocky Reshrined coming at the start of July, so I’ve got plenty to keep me going to worry about whether or not to pick this up just yet..
@Andy77mk yes value for money. There’s so much content! Two versions of each game plus extras 🤷🏻♂️
@Baler I guess value for money is personal to each person.
Glad you enjoy it though!
@Andy77mk Of course, I respect you but I still believe that this will be a timeless must-have soon. I got the Xbox version that is optimised for Series X/S. I also have Sonic CD on Xbox. The Origins version has drop dash added and the menus are arranged differently. I think that you will love this collection with all the extras it has and, of course, you can wait for a physical release or a price drop. The only thing that you missed is a Mega Drive letterbox background which was the only exclusive pre-order bonus. The whole package is very well presented, even better than I expected.
Gonna wait until it goes on sale, then buy it for my kiddos who've only really seen Sonic Mania.
@NotArmani @Andy77mk The 8bit games, if you are used to playing the Game Gear ones via compilations like Mega Collection or unlocked in the Adventure games, are a difficult sell. But the Master System versions, which are rarely ported or put anywhere for some insane reason known only to Sega, are vastly superior.
Sonic 1 on the Master System is widely considered a better game than the Megadrive version by a huge number of critics, both today, and at the time in gaming magazines. Sonic 2, Chaos and Tripple Trouble aren't as universally loved, but they all have a lot of unique ideas, power ups, moves & gimmicks that aren't in the 16bit games, and I'd argue they all deserve at least a playthrough. They also have outstanding music by Yuzo Koshiro of Streets of Rage fame.
The only real problem with those 4 main 8bit games is the extreme slowdown (and ridiculous screen crunch and level/enemy downgrades on the GG versions). Thats why I've long dreamed of a Origins style widescreen, 60fps version of them all. Clearly Sega don't even want to acknowledge the Master System games exist, so I've actually started developing an "8bit Origins" myself, so I'll have a optimal way to play them
@samuelvictor So I know I asked but isn't there a way for me to access those 8bit remakes? 😇
@Banjo- unrelated, but I’ve just complained of the audacity of Sega charging £4 for the added extras of the Deluxe edition of Origins, which then reminded me there is Monkey Ball Banana Mania DLC going for around the same price..
…I’ve just spent £11 on classic sprites, the Sega Legends and the classic soundtrack DLCs.
Shame on me…
@Andy77mk Haha. Anyway, considering that Sonic is mainstream, the Deluxe Edition was poorly marketed and somewhat counterproductive. I got it because okay, it's a small price difference and the total price is very reasonable. Do you know how much money is required to unlock everything in modern Smash Bros. games? I skipped the Switch version entirely.
@Banjo- They aren't finished yet, but its going very well! My concern is if uplaoding the whole package as a fan game would set Sega's lawyers on me... theya re usually super cool about fan games, but you never know, they may secretly have plans to do exactly this and I'd accidentally lose them millions of dollars by putting it out for free.
I have some friends at Sega Europe and the SOA social media people so I might reach out to them and see their opinions. I think what I'll probably do if I'm not told otherwise is put out a playable demo with the first zone from each game, and all the menus, animations etc. and just upload a YouTube playthrough of the complete game, to judge interest, or see if I get a C&D! lol
Maybe if it gets a big enough positive response, Sega will either want to release my version, or it will at least kick them into making their own... which I'd be 100% fine with! I'm not selfish or out for money. I just want the games respected and available in a way new generations can enjoy, just like the 16bit ones.
The new music is the worst I have ever heard in my 30+ years of playing Sonic. Fortunately though on PC at least somebody has made a mod that replaces the new music with the original. Music in a game like this can make or break it.
@samuelvictor Isn't there a way to PM you? 😇
@Banjo- I do, as I’m the idiot who ended up buying it all!
Grabbed all the costumes I thought were must owns on release (DOOM guy, Gorman, Sans, some of the Mega Man costumes) and then my OCD kicked in, telling me that as I’d started buying some of the costumes I needed them all.
Grabbed them a few at a time, and (think) I've got them all now despite knowing that ultimately they’re a waste of money from my perspective as I doubt I’ll use most of them…
In my defence, I had some gold coins saved up to use towards the DLC - grabbed most of the bigger DLC for games like BoTW, Splatoon 2, MK8D etc from sites like ShopTo as the prices are often quite a bit cheaper, and had nothing to use the coins on…
@Andy77mk Lol, see I'm a die hard Sega fan and love Monkey Ball (or at least MB 1,2 and Deluxe) pretty obsessively... but Sega's DLC with Banana Mania was definitely too much for me. Charging £4 for a single character that should have been unlockable? And then make tonnes of them? No thanks. As a fan I felt insulted. I bought the standard version as I didn't want to encourage that kind of milking of the fanbase for little to no effort. In Origins case, the DLC is stupid, entirely unecessary, but as the Deluxe version was only $4 more, I didn't mind. The "full" Monkey Ball experience would have doubled the price of the game if I bought everything. It made me sad to realise that.
@Andy77mk You probably should consider not spending that much on DLC!
I originally played them completely separately particularly S&K! Apart from some sound effects getting replaced (I believe something else was changed as well but I forget what it was top of my head) it'd just be nice to have the option to play it as the weird bit of history they are and wouldn't take anything away from the complete package. Bit of a more cakes situation and personal preference
@Banjo- Not that I don't trust you, I consider us friends! But as I'm actively in the media as a pretty big target, and an upcoming game dev too with 3 legit Switch games coming, I can't risk putting a target on my back saying "lets sue him for millions, looks like he can afford it!" or "lets blacklist him so no publishers will ever distribute his games!"
@samuelvictor there’s so much of it! I’d like to say I won’t pick any more of the DLC as:
1) I don’t care for the characters and
2) paying for single characters would mean I support such a shady practise (again - I’m a hypocrite for what I said above)
But truth be told, I don’t know how much willpower I have in the long run; I think I’ve grabbed all the DLC for all the Switch games I own up to this point and it’s almost become a habit.
@Banjo- you’re telling me! I don’t even know when I’ll pick the game up again either..
I'm going to look for my Sonic Mega Collection Plus game for the first Xbox. This collection just isn't worth it and if memory serves I believe I have the Mega drive Collection for PSP too. For a start the Mega Collection Plus has the original Master System games and the PSP Collection features games like Ecco the Dolphin which is far better value for money.
Don't make the same mistake I did, only buy Sonic Origins if you're a real hardcore fan otherwise stay away.
@RubyCarbuncle of course, it’s also the only way for a lot of players to be able to access some of the games in this collection (namely Sonic CD/Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles) - unless they own the older hardware/software, this might be the only option available to some people…
@RubyCarbuncle The Xbox version of Mega Collection is the best version by quite a long margin But it doesn't have the Master System versions, it has Game Gear, and they are sadly noticably inferior - painful screen crunch, altered sprites, smaller levels, simpler bosses. The PSP collection is a good selection and surprisingly decent emulation. Much better than the recent Switch collection.
@Andy77mk Yeah I really dislike the way they delisted the originals so if you never bought them before this is the only way now.
@samuelvictor Ahh you're right it is Game Gear, I always get those 2 systems mixed up for some reason despite owning them. It is far better emulation, definitely can't argue with that.
@Andy77mk Thats the trap. I have a real OCD about it, it drives me absolutely made to be playing a game that I own and paid decent money for, only to have the title screen trying to sell me something every time I boot it up. It genuinely makes me cringe to look at it and I have to try very hard to not focus on that part of the screen. I have quite a shopping list of neurodiversities so I'm not exagerating how jarring it is to me.
I have forced myself over the years to be quite regimented and only buy if its genuinely good value for money and content I'll use - for example I recently bought the Captain Toad DLC years after getting the game, because I waited until I finally 100% completed the levels I already had. Day 1 DLC is a real red flag for me because it stinks of "content we could have given you for free but are trying to get extra money". I much prefer the older "expansion pack" style of "we made a popular game and people want more levels for it now they've completed the old ones" kinda thing.
However, to be honest, its rare for me to buy games when they first come out anyway - often I find if I wait a year or so you can get "Game of the Year" / "Complete" / "Ultimate" versions that have all the DLC included on the disc/cart/download bundle Theres only a few select games that I'm so desperate to play that I'll pick it up on launch day. Monkey Ball was one of them, but I so far have managed to resist the DLC.
Meh maybe I'll get this on sale or something. If I'm really that hard up for classic Sonic, I'll just boot up Sonic Mega Collection on my GameCube.
@samuelvictor Oooops. Maybe you can ask for permission or something? I agree that the first Master System Sonic game is brilliant. I like the second one, too. I haven't played the other 8bit games as much: Chaos, Triple Trouble (I think it's Game Gear only)...
@Wool_Sheep how is that a dealbreaker? The combined experience is better anyways. It's the definitive Sonic 3 that was supposed to be released.
@samuelvictor I hear you , loud and clear.
For me, I usually get most Nintendo first party or exclusive games day one - 99% they don’t release revised editions (you’ll probably think of a ton, but the only instance I can think of is Mario + Rabbids Gold Edition), as they typically hold their value long after release..
Also - I’m a sucker for limited edition versions of Nintendo games, which is another reason why I’m usually jumping in on day one a lot of the time.
Playstation / Xbox games I’m happy to wait for - there’s usually far more GOTY editions, and I’m happy to buy a good, used edition of a game for a fraction of the launch price online - the resale market just isn’t there a lot of the time for Nintendo games.
@Banjo- Triple Trouble was GG only but you can easily patch the rom and play it on Master System - extra screen real estate included! Highly recomended.
Sonic 2 is my least favourite of the 4, because A) It doesn't start in a "Green Hills" style environment, B) that damned hang glider! C) if you don't collect all the emeralds, Tails DIES?!?!?! lol. But its still really good and has some amazing ideas. I love the fact you can get into the bigger bubbles and float around without running out of air!
And yeah, I will definitely be contacting the few people I know on the perifery of Sega to ask permission, or at least ensure I won't get sued.
@Andy77mk Absolutely. First party Nintendo games are often in the short list for games I may actually pick up at launch. They are usually good quality and don't often come down in price. I do feel they are slipping though - the recent sports titles have all been extremely bare bones on launch and not remotely worth full price... but they all improve over time.
I can't remember the last time I pre-ordered a PC, Playstation or Xbox release or paid full price for one. Usually wait 6 months to a year and you can get them cheaper, with a load of dlc and bug fixes
I have never actually played any of these games before. Well, maybe at a friend's house, decades ago. But I don't count those 15-minute sessions. I did own Sonic Chaos on the Game Gear, which was fun, though not one of the mainline titles. Needless to say, I'm interested in this collection. Not sure what audience these games are for, but I assume I'm in it.
This to me screams a game that is best waiting for a 50 percent sale on, then it will be solid value for your money so that is probably what I would do since I am not particularly eager to play these games again apart from Sonic CD.
@samuelvictor Been playing Nintendo games since around 1990, so there is a world of goodwill attached to that company for me.
However - as you said, some of the recent titles have felt phoned in…Grabbed Switch Sports, partly to support the company, and partly because I wanted to pick up a game and thought it would be good to play with the family.
Hadn’t felt so disappointed in a game in a long, long time..
@Beaucine Ooooh if you enjoyed Chaos, you should love these - Chaos was the 8bit game that was the most similar in style to the 16bit ones - things like proper loops, mobius strips, controlable Tails simply weren't really a thing in 8bit Sonic 1&2. The 16bit games are like Chaos, but much bigger, smoother and bombastic. I'm actually pretty jealous, I've often thought I'd love to experience these games again for teh first time... and this is undoubtedly the best way to discover them
@Andy77mk Yeah tbh Switch Sports just seems lazy and over priced to me right now, not even on my radar to pay full price for. Once Golf is added, I might pick it up with a price drop. But the whole package seems a little lacking. I adore the Strikers series, but thats another I'm waiting on til they add more content. And I can't even envision a day when I'd pay money for "1 2 Switch".
I started in the early 90s as a raving Sega fanboy, mostly due to Sonic, and various incredible arcade games... but soon I also owned and loved a Gameboy, SNES, and was day one for N64... probably the most excited I've ever been for a console. I love Nintendo and have bought every console, and major handheld variant too. But with the Switch generation, they've started to make decisions I'm not a fan of and lose some of their sheen.
I bought almost every major title for the Wii U, but I still haven't gotten round to rebuying them all over again for Switch for another $60, unless its something I absolutely couldn't live without playing portably - Captain Toad for example seemed a perfect game to travel with. The others are on my list of "if I see them second hand for cheap I'll get them for completion's sakes". I don't object to the games being availabel for more people to buy though, it would have been a crime to leave games like Mario Kart 8, Tropical Freeze or Pikmin 3 on a console no-one owned except me!
@samuelvictor LOL I never thought that Tails had died in spite of the constellation. I know it's a weird game but I played it a lot when I was a kid so it has nostalgic value. I even got all the emeralds in the first and second games which is something I never managed to do on the Mega Drive console. I also consider us friends 🤗.
I have two important questions:
1. Why does the opening and ending of Sonic CD look like a VHS tape if it was a CD game?
2. So the only Sonic 8bit game that doesn't have a Master System version is Sonic Triple Trouble? How do I patch the GG rom to make it MS and what are the improvements?
EDIT: Hmmmm, so there is a MS unofficial port?
Sega are always half arsed. It’s a disappointment that the 8 Bit Sonic Games were not included, they could have also included Sonic R from Saturn
@samuelvictor been a Nintendo fan since the start - still remember the excitement of Mario 64 and getting the N64 on day one here (thanks mum!)
Saying that, have a massive fondness for the Mega Drive (my best mate next door to me had one and have great memories of going to his and playing Sonic, Road Rash, Ecco, Jurassic Park and Toejam & Earl amongst others)
And I remember the weird feeling of getting a PS1 at Christmas as a 12 year old - I was still a kid, and remember the PS1 being marketed as a cool, grown up console. Looking back now, I absolutely love the console, but it was so far afield to the kind of gaming experiences I was used to at that point…
As an adult, I’m happy to own my own Mega Drive! Still have my Nintendo consoles, the first 4 Playstations (will get round to getting a PS5 one day) a Dreamcast, and the Xbox consoles (outside of the OG Xbox)
@Gerald since they’ve been software only, they’ve been a disappointment to me.
They had so many classic franchises and poor sales aside, a lot of their consoles were fantastic (although I think the 32X/Mega CD add ons followed shortly after by the Saturn massively hurt them in terms of a hardware developer)
@HammerKirby I personally don't want to fork out £40+ for a digital version when I already have a physical preference and being able to play them as they originally were was a plus for me rebuying the games again. Unless you're willing to buy the thing for me think I'd rather wait
For me, I had enjoyed it quite alot but there a few issues I have but it's...alot to type. My impressions are semi-positive...
Point blank...really. But...it's nowhere near as amazing as Sonic Jam is. And i feel Sonic Jam was handled with care too. not to say Sonic origins wasn't but...Idk.
Plus...I'm bothered that there is no PROPER Time Attack Mode for Sonic 1 & 2 in origins. The mobile versions did. So did Sonic CD, S3&K, and Mania (Plus too).
Why I say that is cuz Jam had a proper Time Attack Mode for Sonic 1&2. Soon I'm getting Sonic Jam for Saturn and I will do a comparison for both. and see how well these two measure up. Maybe. Just gotta wait.
Lastly, the price is also a semi-major issue. I think Sega SHOULD'VE sold it for $20. DIGITALLY. $40 for a physical release? Yeah, I can the reason for that. Heck, even Sonic Mania was released at $20 digitally before Sonic Mania Plus was announced. And before the standard physical edition was also released too. that should've happened for Origins.
In any case, i said my piece. i did enjoyed of origins had to offer. maybe...just...maybe Knuckles Chaotix & the Master System version of Sonic 1, 2, & Chaos will be included. Let's just hope for the best...if it becomes reality. Sorry for the long typing btw.
@Baler Yeah but without the Super Mario 3D All-Stars, where you gonna find Super Mario 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy together for under $60 for the same modern platform.
@Serpenterror eh. 3D All Stars was a rip off - Mario 64 was around £8 if memory serves me well on the Wii U eShop and although Sunshine and Galaxy are great games, they were emulated ROMS and not worth £20+ a piece for a cut and paste job.
No thought put into the package, Galaxy 2 inexplicably left out - considering how little work was put in to put Galaxy in the collection, it wouldn’t of taken much more effort to include the sequel.
Switch Sports and Mario Strikers (acknowledging that it was Next Level who developed this) are two more modern Switch barebone releases - the practise of charging full price for something so lazy should be criticised to the high heavens in my opinion..
I've got all of these games in at least one capacity across various consoles, but having them all in one place would be just dandy — just the idea of playing them in 16:9 on its own sounds like a fascinating experiment, and any excuse to do a (slightly contrived-sounding) story-mode sounds like fun. I'll most likely grab it when it goes on sale.
For what it's worth I still think the definitive releases of Sonic 1 and 2 were the 3D versions on 3DS. Not expecting any agreement but those versions look amazing above all others. Just a shame they didn't get to 3D Sonic 3
@samuelvictor Well to be fair, Sega was too busy to make the widescreen versions of Origins too. Christian Whitehead was so appalled by the iOS/Android versions of Sonic that they released (and they were bad), that Whitehead made his own version than pitched to Sega. Whitehead was a long history of fan made Sonic projects. It's crazy that they let him make Sonic Mania at all. (Apparently he is at work on an original 3D game at the moment.)
@Banjo- I definitely like Sonic 2 8bit, itrs just my least favourite of the 4. I enjoy them all!
1) The animated sections for Sonic CD were made in 1991 by Studio Junio, a studio that produced Anime for television. It was originally made at the highest quality at the time, and would have looked like any other early 90s anime, it was hand drawn and painted cell animation with hand painted backgrounds, combined and photographed individually frame by frame, no computers involved. It was photographed to (probably 16mm) film then converted to broadcast quality betacam tapes.
The original digitisation process to enable the Mega-CD to play it back had to massively reduce the colour depth (from 16 million colours down to 56!) frame rate (30 to around 10fps) and resolution. Each subsequent release has gone back to the original beta tape and remastered it to a slightly higher quality, to follow the improvements in technology. I remember being floored by how improved the Win95 version was, but it looks awful by today's standards!
Looking at the new version in Sonic Origins (which as I said is a noticable upgrade over the 2011 mobile one) they may have even gone back to the original photographed film and cleaned it up from there. Its had some very intelligent AI upscaling and cleaning done on it too.
You say it looks like VHS, but in reality its far cleaner and crisper than any VHS has ever even thought about looking. But you are getting that vibe from the 4:3 aspect ratio, the softness to the edges (hense why I guess its 16mm not 35mm), and the low saturation levels of the colour. Those are par for the course for both betacam and cheaper vintage film. The quality was more than good enough for analogue TV broadcasts at the time. Thats about as good as its ever going to look, unless they go to the trouble of digging out the original cells and background paintings, and completely rephotograph them (which is what Disney does to remaster its old films) and I think I remember seeing a few of the cells appear at auctions for sale, so I highly doubt this will ever happen. It would be possible (though time consuming and polarising for fans) to individually digitally recolour the frames to make the colours brighter and more vibrant, though it would still have the soft edges and aspect ratio.
As I said, the only real "solution" would be to go back frame by frame and make completely new drawings tracing over the old ones, and adding more content to the left and right of the screen. If they did this in Harmony with digital tablets using the exact same brush settings, colour palletes etc as the new cutscenes, they would match pretty well. But as I said, I'm sure many would think it sacriligious to essentially trace the old animation then scrap it. For the longest time, those Studio Junio animations were by far the best animated representation of Sonic that existed - its FAR more expensive and high quality animation than that used in the 90s TV shows, or even the OVA movie.
@Banjo- 2) The SMS port of Triple Trouble is here, along with instructions of how to apply it to a Game Gear rom: https://www.smspower.org/Hacks/SonicTripleTrouble-GG-GG2SMS (note to mods! Nothing illegal at that link. Its a rom hack/patch that needs to be applied to an original rom. No copyright infringement on that site). If you want an already converted rom, there are other sites that have that, but of course I can't link to them... be aware though that there have been several versions fixing bugs etc, and SMS Power are the actual team doing the converstions (they've done many cool GG to SMS ports!) so by using their site you know you have the latest version.
@Andy77mk Ah yeah waiting for that N64 launch day to finally come was torture! I originally pre-ordererd it in 1995 and it didn't come out in the UK until March 1997! Every few months it would get delayed... again! My guess is I'm about 5 years or so older than you, so I fully remember the whole NES vs Master System and Megadrive Vs SNES generations before the N64/PS1/Saturn came along. I was firmly on Sega's side originally because they ruled the arcades, and I absolutely loved Sonic. But the Gameboy and SNES won me over slowly (I got them both in '94), and by the time I saw Mario 64 previewed in '95, I was fully a fanboy of both Sega and Nintendo
@thinkhector Yes that's exactly my theory... Sega are notoriously ok with fan games using their IP, and sometimes even let fans make official games. Whitehead and Stealth are literal heroes of mine... but similar things have been allowed to happen with Streets of Rage, Wonder Boy, House of the Dead, Panzer Dragoon... I'm already a game dev and well known in the retro gaming communities for decades as a Sega enthusiast, so I figure I'll just make the game I wish they would make, and then maybe they'll either buy it off me, or at least let me release it for free so fans can play it
@Muddy_4_Ever The new TMNT is such an amazing experience. Played through 6-player randoms online a few days ago and was thoroughly impressed at how it replicated the classic arcade game feel. Absolute chaos ensued. Even though no one could hear, I was still yelling at the screen like an arcade in the 90’s.
@DanijoEX I really enjoyed your post. And I agree somewhat - if you don't mind 4:3 and don't need some of the new additions, Sonic Jam is THE compilation. And just the amount of care that went into the 3D Sonic World section, and the variety of cool random stuff in the museums is really cool and has so much more soul than the clinical menus and presentation of material we've (mostly) seen before in Origins. Until I played the 16:9 ports of CD, then 1&2, Sonic Jam was my "go to". I still play it to this day, but only really for Sonic World! I love that level so much.
I do fully agree that in reality, $40 for physical and $20 for digital would be the "right" price points. But from a business perspective, it doesn't make sense - Sega know that if they release digitally at $40 first, hardcore fans, of which there are millions, will buy it. Then, 6 months to a year later they can release the physical version, and most of those hardcore fans will double dip. And the many people who right now are put off by the $40 digital price tag, will think they are getting a bargain when it innevitably goes on sale for $20... the price it "should" have always been. Its not consumer friendly, but by doing things this way, they'll at least double their profits.
And again, nice to see love for the 8bit games. See my above posts
@samuelvictor it’s funny, as I never remember the NES/Master System thing although I now know the Master System was more popular over here in England..
Think I got a NES as one of my best friends at the time had one (pointless fact - my friends dad worked in the US in and off over the years (which I daresay is the reason he had a NES) The family ended up emigrating over there when I would of been around 10 years old, and said friend now works as a news anchor in America - he’s worked for CNN and is currently with CBS)
@NeonPizza Well... yes, but thats only the same amount of "lag" thats in literally every modern console game. There is no extra cycles lost due to emulation etc so its better than that.
I agree entirely that there is technically less lag with original hardware on CRT and a wired pad, but in practice, theres a surprising amount of hardware slowdown in the original games on original hardware, not to mention jerk from reduced frames in many situations (for example when Sonic is hanging on a vine and climbing horizontally with his hands, its only around 4 frames a second and jerking between them. Often the collision detection will "jump" sonic around 4 pixels left or right too, to fit better on a tile.
All these little things being removed make the Retro Engine games "feel" faster, smoother and more responsive. Its 60fps is actually 60fps, without slowdown (ignoring Denuvo for a minute!) and Sonic moves a single pixel at a time in even integers where possible without "sticking then skipping". But of course its still personal preference. I own a tonne of retro hardware and games and love playing them. I understand the appeal
1) I also noticed spots like those in old tapes. So, basically, when they digitalised the animation for the Mega CD video game, they used a lot of compression. I thought that it would play like the typical not-in-game cutscene but it's a CD, not a DVD and video was compressed heavily, right? They used the tape footage for later releases, then.
I would like Powerhouse to remake them even if they were optional so they would match the rest of the presentation.
2) I just got a ready-to-use version from Internet Archive. I hope that it's the updated version.
@CharlieGirl I just read a Kotaku article mentioning the devs of Sonic Mania and how they feel that this collection was "rushed" by Sega. By that I mean there was time crunch involved and they managed to mess up a bunch of things, Steam reviews show some of the issues at the moment but other people have mentioned the bad quality of the music for Sonic 3 that didn't use the original better sounding prototype music on the Genesis as well as other game bugs that you could find on Twitter.
So while it doesn't affect most players at the moment, this is something that very much needs too be addressed, I certainly hope Nintendo Life mentions that Kotaku article that was just made and the developer that has vented some frustration about this release on Twitter, along with my hope that they patch some of the issues as well as add lives system to anniversary mode.
@russell-marlow I read the article, I think that they should talk to Sega and release a patch instead of raving on Twitter and damage potential sales, but that's just me.
"We offered to come back for post-release fixes and updates- we do not yet know if this is happening."
Seriously? 🤔 100% probability of Sega agreeing with that but they question it on Twitter without knowing...
If I payed for a 60$ collection that added nothing! I can sure do the same for sonic, that actually adds stuff.
@Andy77mk Funny story: At the time when the NES was huge in America (literally 1 in 4 households had one) the UK gaming scene was actually mostly microcomputers - mostly split between the Sinclair ZX Spectrum range, the Amstrad CPC range, and the Commodore 64 (and later Amiga and Atari ST). Most games were on cassette tape, and the highest selling games weren't Mario, but instead the Dizzy series, most of which were only £2.99 each!
Sega tried to launch the Master System in the 80s, and although the games were clearly lightyears ahead of what was possible on the 8bit micros, the hurdle was that the games were 10x more expensive... £29.99 instead of £2.99. It had some success though, and was basically the console that rich kids had - originally coming with proper active shutter 3d glasses and a light gun, and having semi-accurate ports of the latest arcade games, it was marketed as super high end tech. Nintendo's NES launched a year later at an even more expensive price than the Master System (because of the cruddy import deal they did with Tonka Toys who were selling them), and with games costing £10 more at £39.99... whilst most of the games appeared technically inferior to the already established Master System. Unsurprisingly, it failed HARD that first time round, with only a slight boost when they reduced the price and bundled it with the Ninja Turtles game for Christmas 1990... though by that point the Master System was still outselling it around 4:1 at retail, and neither was making a dent in the microcomputer market.
However, the thing that saved the Master System and NES in the UK was actually the Megadrive and SNES - or specifically, Sonic and Street Fighter 2. Those were the 2 games that finally made the average kid want to spend the extra money and be prepared to finally save up £30-50 for a game, rather than buying cheap games on tape (or disc for Amiga/ST) because the superior quality of the 16bit consoles was starting to become obvious and irresistable. Sega and Nintendo both became a lot more popular as more kids started getting them, and news of which other games were good started doing the rounds, magazines started sprouting up in newagents - at one point I remember there being 8 dedicated Sega magazines on the shelves! Crazy.
The funny thing was, because the Megadrive and SNES were a lot more expensive (both for the consoles and the software themselves) than people were used to, suddenly the NES and Master System got a whole new market, as they were re-released and rebranded as budget alternatives. My parents could never have afforded a Megadrive with Sonic for £150 but they scrimped and saved and got me a Master System with Sonic for £70. I have a catalogue from that year, and the SNES was £150, but a NES Action Set was £50 - I remember them actually going as low as £30! Of course, by that point, many people bought them... so funnily enough, NO-ONE in the UK bought a NES... until about 1994, and then suddenly everybody had one, about 8 years after the American craze!
Funny how the experience in the UK was SO the polar opposite to the USA. In 1991, the Master System was discontinued in America, and no more games were released. But in the UK the same year, suddenly the Master System was the biggest selling console, because it was the affordable way to play Sonic - and there were tonnes of incredible quality games released from 1991-1995 that America never got - including stunning ports of "16bit" titles like Road Rash, Streets of Rage, Ecco the Dolphin, Mortal Kombat 1+2, Desert Strike, PGA Tour Golf, Cool Spot, Lion King, etc etc.
@samuelvictor That's helpful, thank you! I'll be sure to pick it up console rather than PC
I'm playing Story Mode right now and so far, I'm in Mystic Cave Zone Act 1 (Sonic the Hedgehog 2).
Sonic Origins, aside from its few hiccups, is one of my favorite collections on Switch for its many features and the Anniversary Mode, which made getting the Chaos Emeralds (Time Stones, in Sonic CD's case) a heck of a lot less frustrating for me. Throw in Sonic Mania's Drop Dash and I think the classic games are the best here in my book.
If this collection isn't "great", then I still think Sega did the blue blur a heck of a lot of justice more than Nintendo did with Mario in 2020 with Super Mario 3D All Stars.
Alongside (arguably) having the better Tetris games with Puyo Puyo Tetris 1 and 2 on Switch, "Sega does what Nintendon't"
Edit: This is all coming from a huge Mario fan, by the way.
@StephenYap3 Do you mean because you can repeat the special stages using coins? The special stages are so difficult!
@Banjo- You can get pretty-sorta-kinda-near DVD quality video onto a CD (see VCD, CD-i and especially SVCD) though only around an hour so commercial movies on CD had to be split between 2 discs. The technical problem with playing that kind of footage back on the Mega CD was actually the fact that the picture had to go through the video output of the Megadrive before it got to the TV, and the Megadrive's video chip could only output 56 colours at once, and could only handle a certain amount of data per second - so in practice, video files playing from Mega CD tend to only play in about a third of the screen, at 10-15 fps, and extremely compressed and colour-dithered.
People often complain about the 32X requiring so many cables and being confusing to set up, but its these exact problems that those cables were fixing. A Megadrive with 32X attached no longer connects the Megadrive video out to the TV, it comes out of the 32x - so suddenly can display 256 colours at once, from a pallet of 32,768 - quite the upgrade from the 56 colours out of 512 that it would be limited to if those cables weren't there. Add to that the extra and faster memory, and suddenly the full motion video games that required both the 32X AND MegaCD looked much better - more colours, higher framerate, nearly full screen picture. Comparing the vanilla MCD vs 32XCD versions of Night Trap or Corpse Killer is night and day.
There were more powerful dedicated CD based consoles that could play those "near-ish DVD" movies from CDs - the 3DO, CDi, CD32, and even both Sega Saturn and Playstation if you bought the optional decoder accessories! Watching a movie on PS1 or Saturn is a trip
@sleepinglion No worries! If Sega follow their usual pattern, in around 6 months or so they'll quietly remove the Denuvo from the PC release and suddenly it will be worth buying (and the "best" version because fans will mod it to put back in the original music, new characters, levels, etc!).
They are just super paranoid about piracy of PC games, I guess... but it just ends up hurting actual paying customers and giving bad publicity. I wish they'd learn their lesson.
I'm playing Story mode, Sonic 2, so I've already beaten 1 and CD. I'm wondering if the game reuses the user files to make collecting the remaining emeralds easier. This is possible in Sonic CD (Xbox) and Sonic 3&K (all versions, I think. I got them all in Sonic Mega Collection). It's very helpful because accessing the special stages is much easier in the first half of each game and because you can miss a few and still be able to complete the collection in later playthroughs. Yes, I suck at collecting emeralds and I'm obsessively thinking of this right now. Does anybody know if it works like that in Sonic Origins for 1, CD and 2?
@Banjo- I've not actually tried that yet and I'm away from my Switch for a work commitment now. But I would very much assume that's the case. It is in Sonic Mania as well.
@samuelvictor I hope it works in all the included games or I will never be able to collect all the emeralds. The Sonic 1 special stages rely a lot on luck. CD special stages are a pain because the UFOs have no depth. Sonic 2 special stages are the most enjoyable in my opinion but are tricky because of the low visibility. I used to hate the 3&K special stages as a kid (the rules aren't explained) but now I think they're the fairest and I got all the emeralds in Sonic Mega Collection after many playthroughs reusing the same save file LOL 💪🏻.
Just completed it 100% few minutes ago (Story, Missions and Museum). It's definitely now my ultimate way to enjoy Classic Sonic. It's an easy 10/10 for me!
@Banjo- Sonic 2 Special Stages are definitely the most fun for me, I agree about the visibility though you basically have to memorise the layouts of the later ones. I really love the improved engine for them in Origins.
I seem to be in a minority but I've never really liked Blue Sphere - possibly because I'm no good at it and the constant flipping round 90 degree increments at top speed makes me dizzy. My least favourite part of Mania (which is otherwise pretty much my favourite Sonic game) is the fact they included it as the main special stage for the coins and forced me to play over and over, yet the stages come up in random order so you can't even keep retrying and practicing a single layout til you get that particular layout mastered. Grr.
The Sonic 1 special stages are fun and visually impressive, but yeah it does sometimes feel like you lose when it wasn't your fault. Learning the layout and getting your head around controlling which way the board will spin certainly helps, as does learning the colour cycle so you know how long a certain square will take to clear, but there are sometimes situations that feel unavoidable.
Funnily enough, another thing I really like about the first 2 8bit Sonic games is the hiding of the Emeralds around the main levels, and the bonus stages being pretty fun, but also completely optional, as ways to simply get extra lives and continues if you need them.
@Banjo- Stealth, the owner of Headcanon only made a Retro Engine version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Sega internally ported the 2011 Retro Engine version of Sonic CD, the 2013 Retro Engine Mobile/Android TV/Amazon Fire Stick, etc versions of Sonic 1 and 2, and Headcanon's newly made version of S3&K into Origins.
Stealth said that there were new bugs/issues in Retro Engine version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles that weren't there when they turned in the final product to Sega, meaning they popped up when Sega put the games into Origins. Stealth also said the game they turned in wasn't perfect due to a very narrow timeframe given to make the game in the first place, but Sega wouldn't allow any fixes to be made before the game released. It's a coinflip right now if Sega will or won't patch serious bugs in the game. They could patch things, either with their own team or Stealth's, or they could leave them as is.
@samuelvictor Hopefully Sega removes Denuvo in 6 months instead of the 19 months took for Mania. Won't impact the modding of the game in the meantime, the Sonic Community has never let Denuvo stop them before, but it's probably responsible for some of the random issues with the game on Steam anyway, like the Hedgehog Engine 2 menus stuttering when you leave the Museum for instance.
@samuelvictor I'm not a big fan of the new zones in Sonic Mania, Sonic 3&K is my favourite Sonic game but Sonic 2 is very enjoyable as well. I think I only got two emeralds in Sonic Mania but I guess I'll collect the rest in later playthroughs. You're right, Blue Spheres is really demanding. It's a trance. It's not an easy quest by any stretch of the imagination and it's much worse in Sonic Mania because the number of stages is increased and they come randomly, the main reason why I only got two.
@Knuckles Still, it's really unprofessional and immature to write what he wrote on Twitter on the launch day for the whole world to see. There are always two sides to a story and there's no doubt in my mind that Sega is open to patch the game if needed (the Xbox version, the one I'm playing, is fine this far). They always do it.
Pity about the music.
@Banjo- Yes its the fact there is so many of them and they come randomly that makes it even harder as they are similar enough to make it difficult to learn them. I recently finally earned all the coins, brute forcing myself to do it by spending god knows how many hours (maybe 30?!?) restarting Green Hill Act 1, collecting coins and hitting the first post, attempting a Blue Sphere level, then instantly quitting and restarting the level if I failed. I shouldn't have wasted so much time but I got sucked into the Johnny Depp trial (being in the industry and knowing some of the people testifying I knew I'd be asked my opinions on it!) so I was half listening to that whilst playing the same 20 seconds of Green Hill over and over 😂 It was kinda torturous but a part of me was frustrated that even though it was one of my favourite games I'd still not 100% completed it.
While I really like what they did in Mania with the revisited levels, I think the new zones are actually my favourite part. They are visually interesting, have new gimmicks but feel like a logical extension of what a 32bit/Saturn 2d Sonic might have contained, and they have soooo many references and nods to really obscure Sonic lore. I'd 100% be up for a Mania 2 with all original levels, if they were to a similar quality. Sadly, that seems unlikely with Whitehead off making Freedom Planet 2 and the Head Canon team seemingly unhappy with how things are going.
As I wrote above, I think from the 16bit titles, Sonic 2 is the one I'm most nostalgic for and boot up for a quick blast of fun, but overall the combined S3+K is definitely the "better" game. I love both of them a lot.
@Knuckles Was it really 19 months? Wow, seemed sooner than that to me. But then, my life was kinda hectic at the time. I hope it gets removed quickly, I really hate it and try to avoid having any game using it installed on my main PC.
As an update to my first post saying I'd not experienced any bugs or glitches on the Switch version of Origins: I got curious and looked into what (non Denuvo) issues people are having, and to be fair, a lot of the complaints are things I wouldn't have noticed - things like shields returning after dying, respawning in the wrong places when dying etc... without wanting to sound arrogant, I've played these games so many times, its not often that I die. I can also totally understand why pretty much 99% of reviewers wouldn't notice them, but for the people who DO notice them, these issues could stick out like a sore thumb. Its good that Stealth is aware of all the little imperfections (and I'd emphasise again that they are little issues, nothing game breaking) and he's offering to fix them all. I'm confident everything major will be patched soon, and for the physical release we'll be rock solid.
A shame that rushing for an arbitrary release date has lead to negative publicity for what is an overall excellent product. Hmm, I wonder if there's been other times a really promising game was released in an unfinished state just to coincide with Sonic's birthday? lol
Nah, Capcom fighting collection looks to be more worth the money than this.
@Banjo- Sorry for the second reply, you posted after I started typing.
"The Sonic 1 special stages rely a lot on luck." I actually disagree with this statement, everything is on a set system. The way the stage moves is constant unless you change it. Hitting an R Circle reverses the movement of the stage. The same for hitting an Up or Down Circle, it speeds up, or slows down the rotation of the stage by up to 3 speeds if I recall correctly. Hitting bumpers can also help you if you aim at the angle you want to bounce off of them at. The stages are an acquired taste for sure, but they aren't as luck based as they first seem.
As for your reply and your two edits, Stealth himself said that it is considered unprofessional in his initial thread of tweets. He only made the message after people started attacking Headcanon and their staff for the issues with the games.
"I have to apologize for not addressing anything like this sooner, but you must understand - many things of this sort are considered "unprofessional" and can hurt our relationship with Sega, meaning no origins updates, and no further 2D pixel Sonic games from us. Why am I talking about it now, then? Well, there's just too much scrutiny over things that both are and are not related to us, and I don't want to sit in back in silence while people are asking why and how things happened to a product they put so much hope and money into. I hear you, Headcannon hears you. We wanted this to be right then and now. There's so much that you'll never know or understand within the realm of this kind of work, but know and understand this - we try our best to our own detriment, and we care about our work and about Sonic"
You're right there are two sides to every story. Sega had deadlines they had to meet, hence not letting Stealth patch the game when his team tried multiple times before release. It would screw up the submission process and delay the game. I hope they patch the game, but I'm not in the same doubtless boat as you, beyond the inevitable minor fixes and updates that come to almost every game now.
@samuelvictor So, you didn't experience constant debris falling in Marble Garden Act 1 after you encounter the mini boss? That was a bizarre one in my playthrough on Steam and it didn't go away until I entered a Bonus Stage a few minutes later.
I was once told that Sonic 06 was initially supposed to release on June 6th, 2006. Couldn't find an online source for that when I recently looked for one, but if true I can only imagine how the game would have been if released in June to meet that birthday rush instead of November 2006.
@samuelvictor I don't know if I want to do that. I had enough to unlock the abilities. What other extras are there? Don't you think that the new level design of Sonic Mania is bland? I don't mean the graphics but the level layout and enemies placement. Also, I can't help disliking (almost hating) the title theme and most of the new songs are tacky.
On a more positive note, it's cool that they revisited obscure lore with Mighty and Ray and the Mirage Saloon zone is inspired by a discarded zone, "scrapped Sand Shower Zone from Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Desert Dazzle that was intended to be featured in the 2011 re-release of Sonic the Hedgehog CD".
@NeonPizza Why don't you just plug that Pro Controller into the Switch? Also, if you are concerned about lag, you might wanto avoid going into the A/V receiver, and plug straight into the TV.
@Knuckles "Hitting an R Circle reverses the movement of the stage. The same for hitting an Up or Down Circle, it speeds up, or slows down the rotation of the stage by up to 3 speeds if I recall correctly. Hitting bumpers can also help you if you aim at the angle you want to bounce off of them at."
Of course, otherwise they would be impossible to complete. When you find the emerald you have to destroy a lot of blocks while fighting a rotating gravity and disappearing protection blocks, that's the biggest challenge. It's fine, it's the main gimmick but it's almost as if you needed a grappling hook, a boost attack or a homing attack to compensate the gravity when you reach the blocks surrounding the emerald because they take a long time to bring down.
Regarding Simon, he should have ignored the usual internet scrutiny for a little while, or at least keep under control his reactions before raving on Twitter on launch day before giving Sega a chance to react. I'm sure that he's already regretting this.
@thinkhector The Switch Pro Controller when wired has an addition frame of input lag that wireless does not have, even with the proper system settings enabled. It's bizarre, but that's what multiple tests have shown.
@samuelvictor I love collecting the emeralds in the Master System games because it's just exploring, being brave or good at controlling the hang glider, etc. The special stages just give you handy lives and continues.
@Knuckles Noooo that didn't happen to me, I definitely would have noticed that! If you were playing on Steam, it could well be a Denuvo caused thing - from what I understand the loss of a cycle or skip of a frame caused by it running in the background are responsible for many weird glitches - I know that I myself often program game logic or triggers to start and stop certain events based on how many frames have passed since a certain event (far less processor intensive than checking a timer, and as long as the game is running smoothly gets the exact same result) but you have to put in a loooot of safety checks incase Windows hiccups and a frame is lost or doubled else you can get some really puzzling and impossible to recreate "bugs" that are actually the code doing exactly what you told it to.
@Banjo- You first unlock the peelout, then instashield. Next is "and knuckles" mode where you can have Knuckles replace Tails as the character following you. The best unlocks (for me at least) are unlocking Mean Bean Machine mode (basically playing that boss bit whenever you want), and unlocking Debug mode.
Ironically, the reward for collecting all of the coins is unlocking Blue Sphere mode - by the time I'd done that I never wanted to play it again! lol. Though I collected them all, I didn't get them all as gold, some of them were just silver, but I think thats enough for me for now! As far as I'm aware, on Switch, litearlly nothing happens if you get all gold - its an "achievement"/"trophy" on the other systems, and frankly I couldn't care less about those. I just like in game rewards or content
As for the new zones, to be brutally honest, I actually got slightly stumped by your question as it occured to me that I've not really stopped and thought about the actual layouts of those stages. I've not mapped them out in my head and learned them inside out like I have with the classic games. I've just been dazzled by how much I like the graphics, the colours, and the new gimmicks to experiement with. I'll have to pay more attention to the layouts and you may well be right. I think overall they are less organic and flowing feeling and more like the abstract and boxy nature of the Sonic CD levels (and Chaotix levels for that matter).
I don't mind most of the new music, I can't say that I love it as much as the classic songs but that could be familiarity and nostalgia. I quite like the "Friends" Hyper Potions theme - I think because I associate it with how hyped I was the first time I saw that trailer and everyone was freaking out
When does that Friends Hyper Potion theme play in Sonic Mania? I found it as a mod on YouTube:
That one is great but this is the one I have in my game and hate:
I'm checking Sonic Mania. I have unlocked all the abilities and the & Knuckles option. Is Blue Spheres the unlockable between Time Limit and Sonic Ability? I have that as ??? (locked). I only got two emeralds. In Extras I have everything locked but Staff Credits! Eleven coins only.
@Banjo- Sorry for the obvious suggestions about the special stages. I didn't pick up on any of it as a kid, but completed the stages anyway. Thought it might help you out a bit. Best advice I can give is to follow the flow of the stage, and to be patient when the stage rotates away from the opening you've been drilling away at. When it's safe to, let Sonic rest against areas that won't kill you and get ready to jump back into the opening you've been making when the time is right.
@samuelvictor You forgot one unlockable for Mania! DA Garden is unlocked at 26 Medallions, and I know you're sick of Blue Spheres, but they also added in the new Blue Spheres mode that Stealth wanted to include in the original pitch for Sonic 3 & Knuckles that Taxman and Stealth put out as a proof of concept video for S3&K's 20th Anniversary. It would have Green Spheres that had to be ran around twice instead of the usual once to turn into rings. It would change from green to blue to red instead of the usual blue to red, and then either Pink or Purple Spheres that teleport you from place to place!
@Banjo- Its the song for the opening animation, not the title screen. I don't mind the title screen song, although I can see that its a little cheesy and full on.
Heres a site that shows all the menus with stuff unlocked https://www.ign.com/wikis/sonic-mania/Cheats_and_Secrets
@Knuckles Oh yeah I forgot the music player was an unlockable. Seems like something that should have been unlocked by default, like how some games have a sound test options menu.
I heard about the Blue Spheres with alternative colours and things. Perhaps I'll come back to it and try it out once I've gotten over my severre Blue Sphere burnout! lol. Its cool that they got to implement new ideas they were passionate about. I've just never been the biggest fan of that mode since the 90s, as I said it kinds gives me motion sickness and the half pipe stages always seemed more impressive and fun to me as a kid. But I know loads of people really like it, so I don't begrudge it existing! lol
@samuelvictor They come from "Blue Spheres 2" a game/demo that Stealth made back in 2009. And I completely feel the Blue Spheres burnout, I actually enjoy it, but I was not having fun when I played them in Origins yesterday. Admittedly, that had more to do with the fact I had already collected 13 Chaos Emeralds and 7 Time Stones just before that. Story Mode was a fun idea, but perhaps I shouldn't have done 4 full Emerald/Metal Sonic Hologram and Generators run at once.
@Knuckles Haha yeah that sounds like a pretty hardcore play session!
@Knuckles Not at all, I appreciate your replies and knowledge, don't worry. In my second playthrough I'll try to get more emeralds/time stones and will remember your advice. I have only collected a few in Sonic 1 and CD and four (wow!) in Sonic 2 (I'm at Hill Top). Do you know if I keep the already collected emeralds in all games like in Sonic CD (Xbox) and Sonic 3&K (all versions) for my second playthrough?
@samuelvictor The Sonic Mania title screen theme is not cheesy but repulsive. Sorry, I'll stop now. I promise.
I'm missing Debug Mode in Game Options menu and Blue Spheres, Mean Bean and D.A. Garden in Extras menu. I'd like to unlock Mean Bean and D.A Garden if it's a music player like in Sonic CD.
So everything in Sonic Mania is unlocked by playing the special stages in-game? 😅
@Banjo- Yeah the DA Garden is literally just a music player. Mean Bean is a fun unlock, even though I own Puyo Puyo Tetris so no idea why I like it so much. I have always loved messing round with debug modes trying to break the level or make a farm of motobugs or something And yeah its all unlocked through collecting the coins in the ingame special stages.
@samuelvictor As a musician, of course I want to unlock the music player. I don't know what I'd do with the debug mode LOL. I own Puyo Puyo Tetris on Switch and the sequel on Xbox.
It looks like I'll have to replay Sonic Mania and unlock stuff. So, the special stages unlock not just the emeralds but the coins.
@Banjo- The Emeralds are earned from the UFO special stages you get from the big rings. The coins are earned from the Blue Sphere stages you enter from the star posts. As far as I remember, the UFO Emeralds only unlock the Super forms, you have to get them separately for each character. Sonic also gets the "good ending" cutscene at the end, and (I think?) all the characters get a "good ending" in Encore mode if you have plus/encore dlc. I'm heading home and then going to bed, but great talking with you as always
I'm wondering if there are unlockable level select screens in Sonic Origins like in the 3DS Sonic remakes.
@samuelvictor Yep, time to rest for me as well. See you soon!
@Banjo- I haven't played any of the games individually to Origins yet, and Story Mode doesn't have a game select option to my knowledge. However, your emeralds will likely carry over. If you were asking about Mania, then yes, they will carry over.
The games don't feature a main menu level select option, but if you input codes on the title screen for Sonic 1, 2 and 3, there is a level select. GameXplain uploaded a video on it yesterday.
@imgrowinglegs The save system is rather awesome. Each mode has it's own auto save and the games doesn't save just when you beat a level, it saves at every checkpoint reach. This allows you to jump in and out of games quickly. No let's say you have been playing as Sonic in one of the modes, but want to play as Knuckles? Each character within that mode gets his own save state.
The real issue with Sonic Origins is that the game has a lot of minor bugs during gameplay with Sonic 3 being the most problematic. Sonic 2 with Tails is also an issue. If no patches are ever issued that will be disappointing.
@Dr_Corndog Yeah but the entire package overall is really great. Let's compare to a highly praised collection of games the Castlevania Collection. Did Konami make them all widescreen? Nope. Did they add cartoon featureretts to tie the games together? Nope. Did they create a Mission Mode? Nope. Did they have online leader boards for speed running? Nope. I mean let's give Sega some credit here for really trying. (Yeah, the games have some annoying bugs AND they should fix them.) Also, look at the music situation. Christian Whitehead didn't have the Japanese Songs for Sonic CD (just the music). Sega went and got the rights back and both missing songs with lyrics are back here. (Makes me think if they DID try and get through MJ tracks...hmmm.) Anyways, this collection has WAY more effort than any other I can think of. (Execution is another story, but hopefully we get some patches.)
@Knuckles Yep, I was asking about Sonic Origins (anniversary/story). I just got my fifth emerald in Sonic 2 (Oil Ocean) but I know it will take me many playthroughs or retries to get them in 1, CD and 3&K. I would also like to know if there is a level select screen but I don't think so because I started Anniversary mode in 1 and CD (that I have already beaten in Story) and nope. The 3DS remakes included it after beating the games. I'm not interested in classic mode unless they include a wide-screen option.
@thinkhector I completely agree. There is also a lot of music in the museum. I'm sure that Sega cares, Sonic CD soundtrack had been restored, but it seems that MJ's heirs and/or Brad Buxer are hard to deal with. The only track I'll miss is Icecap but Sonic Origins is a great package.
@Banjo- Again, haven't played the games for Origins outside of Story Mode, so I can't say if they updated the save file screen. However, in 2013 releases of Sonic 1 and 2, they retained their in game level select through entering a code at the title screen. In Sonic 3 & Knuckles, the level select is through a code, but also once you've cleared the game on that save. It works like Mania, on a per Zone system, not per act. And really, I should say it works like Sonic 3, because Mania copied it. The code however always will let you choose the Zone, the Act, and also the character. 00 is Sonic & Tails, 01 is Sonic, 02 is Tails, and 03 is Knuckles. This option is generally in the bottom right.
@SonicTheHedgehogs eww, no, they should have put the MASTER SYSTEM sonic games on. Never the game gear ports, those are terrible, probably the worst screen crunch in a game ever, which is saying a lot considering there exists sonic the hedgehog genesis for the game boy advance, and Mega Man and Bass for the GBA too.
Just play the original master system versions, they're all like 8 or 9s out of 10, whereas the game gear ports are more like 5 or 6 out of 10, all because of that screen crunch.
The master system sonic games though are amazing, they're as good as the Mega Drive/genesis sonic games, albeit for different reasons. They're more like a halfway point between Mario and sonic. The levels are less about speed and more about platforming, and apart from using the same characters, they have not much in common with the mega drive games, so it's not like a downgraded 8-bit demakes of the mega drive ones, they're their own unique games with unique levels and mechanics and controls and so on. So you won't get bored of them if you've played the mega drive ones to death, they're so different that they really are their own unique game series, that just happens to share a name with another game series
Everyone should play the master system sonic games. They're very very easy to emulate. But yeah it'd definitely be better if they got officially released for once. I'd love to see a Christian whitehead series of ports of the master system games, adding wide-screen and new playable characters etc. But that probably won't ever happen
But yeah especially here in the UK, plenty of people grew up with the 8 bit sonic, not the 16 bit sonic, and so in our eyes sonic has always been more of a platformer than what Americans seem to see it as. All the modern sonic games are about speed with very little to no platforming involved, which just misses the point. There were always slow platforming levels, even in the 16 bit ones, it's not all speed speed speed boost boost boost the whole time.
In fact if you make everything high speed, that means NOTHING is high speed. The master system games definitely proved that variety is what makes the good sonic games good games to begin with
@Knuckles No problem here, I was just answering your question. I'll search that code and try.
@AnorakJimi I really admire your passion for the 8bit games, and 100% agree that the Master System versions are infinitly superior versions - if you see my posts above you'll see I take this view to an extreme and am so passionate about it that I'm coding my own "8bit Origins" collection to have a slightly modernised way to play them in widescreen and have even more screen real estate, and to reduce the other minor annoyances like slowdown, flicker etc. Its not just the screen crunch either, the GG versions often have smaller levels, simpler bosses etc. As I helped Banjo- discover yesterday, there is an unofficial Master System port of Triple Trouble that literally took me from kinda enjoying the game, to loving it. As you rightly pointed out, the screen crunch is a huge handicap on games involving speed or exploration, so having all 4 main adventures having a much wider field of view is truly transformative, especially for those who are used to the GG versions only!
However, its important not to attack someone like @AnorakJimi for liking the Game Gear games - not that I thought you were being mean, you're clearly just really passionate, as am I. But I try to not accidentally insult someone's nostalgia or disparage them for liking something - especially when we actually like something that is so similar! They are after all basically the same core game that we love and have (nearly) the same level designs, cool variety and unique gimmicks, great sprite/tile work, amazing music etc.
We were very lucky in the UK and the time period we grew up in. Sadly the majority of the world never got to appreciate the Master System versions, and the Game Gear versions were all they got - still great games at heart, but gimped by the hardware limitation. Whether the reason they only ever saw the GG versions was because they lived in America or Japan where the MS versions basically didn't exist, or because they are slightly younger and first experienced them on the Adventure DX or Mega Collections, its not their fault that for some reason Sega is obsessed with pushing inferior versions. Theres still a lot to love in those GG games so its best to be happy that there are fans of the core games and gently let them know that there are even better versions available, rather than just insult something they enjoy
@thinkhector Very much agree with all your points. Its very clear that many people who are as passionate about Sonic and these games and their history worked really hard to make this the best product it could possibly be, and just a few higher ups slightly messed up the execution in bringing it all together, and in marketing it, which all must be so sad and frustrating for people like Stealth who live and breathe this stuff... things like the music tracks being completely mislabelled would never have happened in a fan game! lol.
But it all can be easily patched and fixed and I don't doubt Sega will do that. And none of the problems that I've seen or heard of (save perhaps for Denuvo which cripples some people's PCs) are game breaking or are real reasons to not call these the definitive official versions. Sure, things like Sonic 3 AIR will still be more pleasing for the hardcore longtime fans, but this is more about a proper official celebration, combined with the perfect way to introduce these games to a new, younger, mainstream audience joining the fan based from things like the movies and the Boom tv series.
Not including the Master System Sonic is a bizarre choice, as that's pretty much its own unique game and a rather good one too.
And cutting some of the most iconic Sonic 3 music tracks defies belief. Pure stupidity.
Too much missing for this price point. Master System and Game Gear games could/should have been on this, even as just roms.
Coupled with Sonic 3K having different music, it's just not worth it to me.
I love these games, but I'll stick with the versions I have.
Oddly, the 'bad' point of not being able to play Sonic 3 or S&K on their own doesn't bother me at all. They were technically released separately, but they are one game together as was the original intention. Sonic 3 A.I.R. is the, IMO, the single best way to play Sonic 3K. It's a mod on PC (that requires a Steam obtained legal ROM) that allows you to go even further and put these games back the way they were before the split (levels in the original, different order, that actually flows better). Highly recommended.
Why do they hate Chaotix
@samuelvictor I got all the emeralds in Sonic the Hedgehog 3 in my first Origins playthrough, now starting its second part, Sonic & Knuckles. I used coins but not as many as I thought. The engine is smooth and the Series X version runs like a dream 👌.
@Banjo- Hey well done! Glad its working well for you. I bought it on Switch and have had no real issues at all. I keep being really tempted to buy it for PC too but I really don't like Denuvo. Not had as much time to play it as I would like as I'm super busy with work stuff, but I have put in a few hours fitting it in half an hour or so at a time when I get downtime
Has no one mentioned that the Japanese Sonic CD opening/ending are the versions with the singing now? Last re-release had them instrumental due to licensing issues.
@LillianC14 Yeah its been noticed and mentioned by a few of us in threads on this website, its strange I've not seen actual reviews mentioning this much, its a pretty big deal (as well as those animated parts being newly remastered as well, not just reusing the previous remaster).
It shows that Sega really were trying more than just putting the old 2011 port on the disc and being done with it. Its also further more evidence that they likely did try to get the license sorted with MJ/Buxor, and would have been willing to pay a reasonable fee, so the blame for the music being changed shouldn't really lie with them.
I'm sure that given the choice, they would have liked to have the option to switch between the beta/pc songs and the Genesis/Megadrive ones, just like you can switch the soundtracks in Sonic CD.
@samuelvictor I smiled and made a noise that startled my girlfriend when i heard the singing start. You'd think it would be a big deal to reviewers! I wonder how much the estate of MJ wanted for the OG Sonic 3 music?
@LillianC14 Aww that makes me happy that you were so pleased, just as I was
I work in the film industry and have been privvy to quite a lot of licensed music deals, and I believe its quite similar for modern games when using songs from major labels or artists signed to them.
Usually you have to agree a relatively small percentage royalty per unit sold/manufactured/streamed, but have to pay a negotiated lump sum upfront, and the royalties are only due after that lump sum is reached (if ever). Its sort of a "how long is a piece of string" thing but a good rule of thumb when negotiating is to expect to pay around $10k upfront for each track, though if you require to use both the composition AND the original recording (mechanical rights) you have to pay twice. Each party negotiates separately, but if one of them asks for a higher fee, you have to pay the higher amount to both of them.
In the case of "You Can Do Anything", Sega would have had to pay twice, so it was probably $20K upfront. There's a chance that they'd have been lawyered into paying for each variation - for example often in films we have to pay the lump sum for theatre, home video, streaming, and if the song is used in the trailer or online clips, so thats up to 4x2 times ($80K). If the lawyers for the owners of "You Can Do Anything" argued that the PC/Switch/Xbox/PS versions are different, and the Standard Digital version is different to the Deluxe, and the eventual innevitable physical release, it could have been anywhere as high as paying 4x3x2 times, so $240K. But I personally can't see Sega agreeing to pay that much just to use the song in a cinematic, so its likely that if they had been asked for that, they would have refused, and the owners would have simply accepted around $20K and been happy, because they are a relatively small artist and happy to get something, and if it sells millions of copies, they'll eventually start to recieve royalty cheques as well anyway.
@LillianC14 (cont) Now, the MJ/Buxor business is more complex. In theory, they wouldn't need to pay mechanical rights, as the audio was reproduced on the Sega hardware itself, not recorded in a studio... unless the lawyers pushed and said that the little audio samples that are used count. Assuming that they didn't, we don't have to worry about doubling everything.
However, while I said $10k per song is a good rule of thumb, there are certain artists/bands who don't want their songs appearing on absolutely everything (therefore cheapening the brand) and purposefully charge waaaaay more than the going rate. Being that we didn't see MJs music appearing in many (any?) movies or commercials, unless they were ones he was specifically involved with, I would guess that his estate charges a fair bit.
I don't know if its a fair comparisson, but I have worked on 2 films about the Beatles and I know that if the producers wanted to use any of their tracks, it was a flat minimum of $1 million per track. Being that Jackson's estate owned much of the Beatles catalogue for a while, its quite possible that they expect these kinds of fees. You may feel Buxor (who wrote Hard Times / Ice Cap before meeting Jackson) would be more forgiving but he was bitter that Sega apparantly never paid him royalties he felt he was owed from the Genesis days and all subsequent re-releases, so I'm sure he could have been quite uncooperative, sadly. At the very least, the lawyers involved would have pushed for the different versions requiring a separate upfront fee as above.
So to get each track would have likely been 4x3, or $120K each ($360k for all 3 stages) as a minimum, and potentially up to $12 million each ($36 million total). The latter seems ridiculous, but I've seen crazier demands from record labels.
Even going for the low end of $360k, its unlikely the higher ups at Sega would deem that a viable proposition, essentially losing the revenue from 10,000 copies sold... and at the higher end, they'd have to shift a million units before they even turned a profit, essentially killing the project dead in the water.
So yeah, its a little bit "how long is a piece of string" but essentially I can't blame Sega if they couldn't negotiate a deal that was reasonable. All the people complaining and saying "Sega were obviously too lazy to negotiate or too tight to pay the fee" probably don't realise how large that fee could potentially have been once the lawyers got involved. I'm having a similar problem right now with a couple of tracks we want for a superhero movie, with what's currently being asked for, it would cost more than the entire budget of the film if we use them. Grr.
I don't have Sonic 1, 3 & CD on my Switch. I have the SEGA AGES Sonic 2. Will wait for a deep discount therefore.
Think I'll pass.
There isn't much here that wasn't already achieved with the other Whitehead ports over/nearly a decade ago, not to mention this barely scratches legal fan projects like Sonic 1 Forever, Sonic 2 Absolute, Sonic CD Restored, and most notably Sonic 3 AIR and... that already covers all the content this game provides for twice the asking price.
I just came here to say how gutted i was reaching sonic cd in the story mode and realising it is the u.s soundtrack, like i nearly shed a tear lol.
I wanted this for the new features and levels(never played the mobile versions so new to me anyway) but after hearing the changed music tracks, and about the other issues I decided to wait for a sale. If they were truly definitive versions I would have had no issue paying the $45.
@davowayman You can change it in the settings!
SwitchVogel really? i would be grateful if you could tell me how? ive look everywhere and cant find the option.
@davowayman You need to boot up CD outside of Story Mode, then press right on Sonic CD's title screen until you reach something like Soundtrack, and then you're brought to the 2011 menu for the Soundtrack.
ANOTHER TERRIBLE REMASTER FROM SEGA & ANOTHER BOOTLICKING REVIEW FOR NOSTALGIA POINTS. THIS IS FAR BELOW AVERAGE, ESPECIALLY ON SWITCH.
I’m actually considering getting this even though I’d basically be double dipping…
Thank god i got sonic cd the sonic origins version on steam but it is on epic game store which i do got the computer version but not these nintendo branded consoles of nintendo switch. the sonic origins classic compilation game is really excellent for my taste. it does have usa soundtrack and eujp soundtrack but one thing that blows me away is super sonic on sonic 3 and knuckles the sonic origin version which it is the most awesome version i everheard but at least it got the beta or windows 95 midi music besides the michael jackson version which michael jackson did passed away on 2009
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