Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance Doubles The Length Of The Original

oh thank christ because the original was too short lmao

So basically the SMTIV + SMTIV Apocalypse pack equivalent but merged into a single game.

I have the original in my backlog. I will sell that copy and get this one.

Still wondering if the DLC is going to be offered as standalone in the eShop

Is this getting upscaled on the other systems or is it just a straight up port with the extra campaign added on.

That's way more than expected, sweet

So those that bought before have to pay to get a small DLC for full price now?

The video is really misleading because it says that there's only one new area and one new dungeon. Considering that the total length per path is the same (and an overestimate from my experience), I assume that the third area is being directly replaced so about 75% is the same.

So can I just get the "expansion" on its own or is this considered a whole new full-priced game?

Same day as Elden Ring DLC… yowza… goodbye, wallet. Better start saving now!
This game is fantastic, albeit brutally difficult at times, so I can’t wait to get my buttocks handed to me again by even more types of demons!
Tempted to buy this one on PS though just to experience it with better performance… 🤔

@SwitchForce This isn't "small DLC" though. The new campaign is just as long as the original with a brand new scenario, along with brand new content like 40 more demons, demon fusion skills, demons having unique passive skills, being able to talk with your demons, original cast as playable party members, increased level cap to 150, and various QoL improvements.

Glad I held off on purchasing this one now (as I was previously burned by buying Persona 5 right before Royal came out). I will get the expanded version instead.

Will it use my original SMTV save file so I can go through it new game + style?

Good that I haven't bought game before... Well, plot in video games is important for me, and I've heard a lot about how bad SMT V's plot was, so... I hope that this enhanced version will change plot in a good way... And game's performance on Switch too... Also, I have almost instantly recognized Kenjirô Tsuda's voice in the Japanese Nintendo Direct trailer, lol.

I enjoyed Shin Megami Tensei for 60 hours.

Unfortunately I played it for 80 hours.

So this is something like Fire Emblem: Two Houses? Lol

Well, good thing I didn't get the original. I'll buy this one instead.
It would be nice to give the option to buy just the new canon to the people that have the original, though.

@epicgamner Similar for me. It was 5 - 10 hours too long.

Okay, I’m officially double-dipping.

@Zach777 I would just assume that it won't be due to it being Atlus and they've never done that with re-releases. They already confirmed the pre-order dates too so they probably would have said something then if it was happening.

@Krydle

Still… hoping for the best… expecting the worst.

Maybe the file size will be huge and it will all be on one cartridge? Maybe it won’t and they will have the base game on cart with DLC as DL… and it will sort of set up the play in gamers favor.

I've played the original SMTV and loved it so I think this will REALLY be my thang. Would MUCH rather play this on a hybrid portal than an "ass on one chair in one room game". It's still a little bit of a shame that you have to play half the game identical as before but hey ho, Atlus. Was SMTIV and SMTIV Apocalypse along the same lines? Only ever played Apocalypse and that was banging as well.

Christ, this is going to be a monster of a package. While it sucks there's no upgrade path for Switch owners of the original, at least it's not skimping out on content. Will probably grab this for Steam anyway, since the original's performance left something to be desired.

@LEGEND_MARIOID IV and Apocalypse are COMPLETELY different games, so no.

There really needs to be a way for original owners to buy this expansion. Atlus can't keep getting away with this

Typical Atlus behaviour, selling what is essentially DLC as a whole "new" game. I'm glad I didn't pull the plug on SMTV during the January sale, because I'd be pissed.

I’m curious to see it run on switch this time around, but the PS5 version seems the way to go if you own one. Been waiting for this for a long time!

The original was around 40 hours so if this double that then those extra contents better be worth it. If it's just 40 more hours of boring then that's 40 more hours of our life wasted.

@Axecon

@MrGawain Hahaha. So was that 20 hours of grinding to beat Shiva and Demi Fiend? Or just 20 hours wishing the story was better?

Well I guess that about solidifies my decision to upgrade… well played Atlus. Still wish I could buy the new scenario as dlc even if I only get like a $10 or so discount by doing so, assuming nothing else in the base game has really been changed. I got the steelbook launch edition so I’m not likely to sell my original even if this makes it obsolete

No thanks. I beat the base game last year, and while I did like it, it overstayed its welcome by the end and eventually felt pretty repetitive. It was still a solid game, but in my opinion, the last thing it needs is extra content.

@tabris95

I got to a point where I thought I was almost near the end and had to grind to get through the last few bosses, then found out it was longer than I thought.

It really wasn’t worth it.

So tired of gaming these days. Why does every game have to be 100000 hours long? It's getting annoying... With just the average busy working life, I can barely manage to finish 3-4 games a year these days... Man I miss the "short" 20 hour bursts of quality and optional replay value. Right now, it's just not fun anymore. I will just have to pass on this one

Good things come to those who wait

@Sculptor I get u, the older u get the worse it becomes. Imo it all depends on the quality of said hours

@Zach777 Unlikely. This seems like a Persona 5 Royal situation. They want people to buy the new version of the game.

@Sculptor I'm with you on that. Back when I was a youth with empty pockets and no day job or other obligations, then sure, take all of the time I have. Nowadays, whenever I hear a game is short and sweet, that's a selling point for me.

Do you need to play the original story before playing the "Vengeance" story to fully understand everything? If not then I will just jump straight into the Vengeance story but I'm not playing the game effectively twice.

Sounds good! The length of the original was my only gripe. I had a lot of fun with the game, but it all ended a bit too soon.

I have the original and loved it (I like SMT more than Persona) so the dilemma is, should I sell my original one and get this on switch again, or keep the switch one and buy this on PS5?

@UltimateOtaku91 I can't imagine why you would need to, given the early parts of the story are apparently the same between the two routes.

To be brutally honest, the story can only be improved in the new version.

Hard pass. If it's a standalone route, I don't know why it can't be done like Torna (XC2)... if it's that big make it a standalone smaller purchase. I'm not repurchasing a 2 year old game.

@AlienigenX Depends on how much you want to play it on a handheld/hybrid. It'll probably run and look better on PS5, but I would also hope that they optimized it more to run better on the Switch, as well, given that the base version was a Switch exclusive.

@AlienigenX are you me?
I’m wondering if I should go full on brand new experience with PS5 or have the portable option with Switch.
I had no gripes with performance on Switch whatsoever but I could tell it would really shine with enhanced graphics.
…or do I stick with having the portable option.

My gut is saying stick with Switch.

Guess wait and get this one and hope my funds aren't hurt by this.

@SwitchForce don’t you mean, your Macca?

I got like 8 hours into V, and put it down cause I was playing DQ XI at the time and can usually only do one big rpg at a time. Guess I will be trading the original in for this.
This leaves out way too many questions. So it's a new middle and ending, auto battling, new demons, etc? That's not a new game.

Atlus is training me to not purchase their RPGs on day 1. Why would I buy Persona 3 Reload when we will probably get the definitive edition in 2 years?

Yay double the amount of crap. It also say hey you who bought SmtV when it came out that now your version is basically the proof of concept demo and Vengamve is the true game. It’s hard to root for Atlus when they pull this crud with every game.

Anyone familiar with Atlus should have seen this coming. Having said that, I will double dip. Despite the performance issues I'll probably get it on switch again despite owning a pretty good PC and PS5 since I don't have a steam deck and I honestly feel like SMT5's gameplay loop was designed with portability in mind. I couldn't see myself playing the entirety of this game sitting in front of a TV/monitor.

@Adol-Bannings Atlus saw that it worked with P5 Royal, especially when they released it on Switch/PS5 so they figure there's a market for these re-release tactics.

You could always wait until it drops in price.

Yeah not buying this until it goes for more than half off. I bought SMT V for 60 dollars. I'm not spending another 60 dollars on a story expansion for a game I've already played.

Make sure you don't buy Tactica, Reload, or Metaphor at launch. I'm almost certain they're going to do this lousy nonsense again.

@Sculptor which Shin Megami Tensei game was like only 20 hours?

@Ralizah Thanks. I actually thought that. It's just one or two comments from ppl who have played both got me questioning myself.

@Poco_Lypso @Sculptor On the same boat here. I kinda stopped buying games with the exception of splurging on the occasional sale since I can't find the time to finish them. Binged a lot during covid times though but the last long game I was able to finish was Xenoblade 3. Really want to get this definitive SMTV but its likely gonna get buried in my backlog anyway.

Amazing to read about this, really interesting.
And I thought Pokemon was ripping off their fans everytime selling two versions of the same game. This sounds even worst here. So there is new content but it's all lost inside that "other" game that's actually the same as the previous version but they remixed the DLC inside of it. So you can't play just the DLC and you have to pay full game price for it.
How lame to rip off your fans like this.

@Octane_st1m I have a backlog reaching the wii/ds era. its clear to me there will games I will never ever play in my life. But thats fine, still buying games which I think I might like, haha. Might as well play them one day.
But ye, I am getting a bit more picky these days, not that I would ever buy ubisoft garbage for example. but I am not buying every jrpg anymore or every nintendo game. Sometimes I cave in when there is a sale ofc

Most recently I bought tears of the kingdom - cost me about 40eur on sale, I knew perfectly well I wasnt going to play it on release and that game wasnt going anywhere, unlike maybe some falcom games

Ok, honest question, just trying to understand the benefit of doing this, but can someone please explain to me the purpose of having a backlog of games that are never opened/played?

I’m assuming that there are times that someone can get close to the original value (or in rare cases more) of what they paid for the original game, but in cases where you can’t (which I assume are many) aren’t you just throwing money away?

Is it a compulsive shopping addiction, a form of hoarding or something else?

@libersolis A bit of both compulsive shopping addiction and hoarding. I will also add fear of missing out of the conversation on social media platforms. All of these things are well known for advertisement and they take advantage of it for sales.

@libersolis There's a number of factors at play - some rational, many irrational.

Collectors - This is the most straightforward one. Some people enjoy the hobby more in terms of building sets and collections of products than actually playing the games. Granted, most game collectors enjoy gaming, and will usually play games to some extent, but the pace of releases today is such that if you have any sort of life at all, your purchases will quickly outstrip your ability to play them in a reasonable timeframe.

Lack of Time - Many people buy games they're excited for, fully intending to play them through whenever it is they buy them, but, y'know, as adults, it can be difficult to find the time to properly commit to leisure hobbies. If you're an adult gamer who comes home late drained and ready for bed most nights, you might still gain some satisfaction from buying the latest releases so you still feel like you're involved with the hobby you love.

Lack of Impulse Control - This is the obvious one people will settle on first, and it is a big thing. Maybe you see a game you like in a deep sale, but don't have time to play it. Maybe you see a new game on a shelf, and know you won't play it soon, but gosh darn it, you want it! Buying stuff is fun.

'Supporting' Games - A game's sales in its launch window will often be the a crucial metric in determining if it was successful enough to get a sequel at all. If I know this, especially when it comes to a less popular IP, I might buy during that period fully knowing I won't get to it for months/years, because I want the property to continue. At least, this is the rationale. Publishers know this and try to exploit it at times in their messaging to the public.

Re-contextualizing the Backlog - Although I'm guessing this is merely a self-justification in many instances, some people prefer to think of their backlogs as libraries instead. The idea is that, instead of having this huge pile of unplayed games to 'process,' you have a wide array of titles to choose from as your fancy dictates. I tend to think this only really justifies small backlogs, but, you know, who am I to tell a person how to think of their property?

FOMO - This is a big one. Especially for fans of physical releases from smaller publishers. You want to be able to own your games physically, but with a number of titles, there's a reasonable fear that if you wait until you actually want to play a game, the physical release will be out-of-print / prohibitively expensive compared to when it first released. Publishers also tap into this impulse by making "limited edition" stuff, launch versions of games that ship with extras that can't be had later on, etc.

@Ralizah very well put.

@ChromaticDracula don’t you mean, your Macca?
That too as well...

@Bizzyb unless it’s free the can go bleep themselves, lesson learned I will never buy another Atlus game until 5 years after release.

@tabris95 it came out in late 2021 what quality of life could they possibly add, it should have been met alreadyz. This isn’t a game from two generations ago. To hold back Qol means they purposely held it back to try and sell me it twice.

@Adol-Bannings I mean you're not wrong. This has kinda been Atlus' MO for over a decade now and it always feels really bad when it happens to you.

As for the QoL and new features, we have: New skills for each individual demon separate from their standard move pool.
Demon fusion skills/combo skills.
The ability to talk to your demons.
40 additional demons added.
New Nahobino exclusive skills.
Under certain circumstances, players can increase the level cap of the Nahobino and demons from 99 to 150.
The speed at which players can distribute new demon skill has been changed, and now offers four alternatives: standard, double speed, max speed, or skip.
Some Miracles can be toggled ON or OFF from the status screen.
A new item will allow players to reset the Nahobino’s parameters and relocate his stats.
Players can toggle minimap rotation ON or OFF in the settings menu.
Saving can now be done anywhere in the map.
Growth items such as Gospels (EXP increase) and Incenses (stats increase,) can now be used in a batch.

Right now we don't know what if any of this is exclusive to the new Vengeance campaign, like talking to your demons or demon combo skills for example, but I think it's a safe assume all the system focused changes will be available in both the new and original campaign.

We still reserve the right to be pissed we gotta buy it again to play the new stuff. And this doesn't even have the advantage of being like Devil Survivor or Strange Journey expanded versions when it's a port to a new platform.

I will play this, but would be cool if we could buy only the extra content.

Why do I need to buy the original game again? :/

If it doubles the length, that is effectively a "new" game. Why are people acting like they are paying full price for a 5 hour dlc addon

I may get this on xbox when it is on steep discount. Just so I feel a little less punished for supporting day one. Also makes me wonder if the performance issues had more to do with them wanting to make a game that was designed with the twins in mind, knowing that the exclusivity agreement was timed from the start.

That being said this is my last SMT/Persona. I’m getting a little tired of this practice and while the games are good…they aren’t good enough for me to keep jumping to Atlus’ tune. I have way too many games to play to be rebuying games in the same generation.

@Arminillo It isn’t all new content though. It is like about 50 percent of the original game and then the new content is mixed in (and not fully replacing the last half of the game. Replaces the last 25 percent at best. ) So anyone that bought it day one has to buy the exact same game that has been copy pasted 1 and a half times (vengeance includes the original game plus the Vengance campaign which is made up of half the original campaign as is) to get to the remixed and new content. Even worse if you bought the dlc for the game already as that is included.

This isn’t like SMT IV and SMT IV:A where the second game was its own thing. Or even xenoblade torna where it is its own thing. The only good thing is it is better than Persona 5 Royal. It’s if Persona 5 got an edition that was sold as Persona 5/P5R double pack. The only people this benefits is those that didn’t buy SMTV already or that want to play it on a different system.

@Ryu_Niiyama
I see. That makes a lot more sense. The trailer made it seem like it was more of a iv situation but I was uninformed

I already bought this game for the switch and got to max level really quick due to buying all the dlc which increased the rate of those rare demons and they drop a item that levels you up by one. ngl i am not interested in this version of the game the story was very boring in this game and looked like a ps2 game. I think Shin megami tensei really needs to spice up its formula the series has been the same for too long and there isn't anything to do in these games besides just fight enemies and continue the story. i enjoyed V for a time then got bored after like maybe the30-40 hour mark i can't remember what my play time was exactly.

@Ralizah I have a collection of 1126 games. About 85% of them are unplayed. I used to believe I would play them all but had to reconsider when I calculated, at the rate I play games, I will be in my mid-90s when I finished them all. And that’s without buying anymore titles.

Sometimes when I am updating my spreadsheet, cataloguing the latest game I have asked myself why I do it. Your reply really clarifies some of the different motivations and impulses that floated around the back of my mind. I really appreciated reading what you wrote. Best thing I have read in a while. And I mean that.

Time to sell my original, because I doubt the DLC will be offered as an upgrade option for OG owners. Why do I bother supporting Atlus?

@Ralizah that last point has been hitting me harder and harder as the older console generations have been shutting down their digital game stores. And, to an extent, I continue to pay for it, as a lot more of the games I want as a physical are only being produced by Limited Run and Super Rare ($90+ for a physical of N++: Ultimate Edition when the OG price was $30, but only 4,000 copies were made). I'm done buying digital only if it means I lose it when they shut down

@libersolis part of it is collecting. Another thing (and I'm not sure everyone does this) I'm rebuking games as PHYSICALS that I have digitally. The 3DS eShop closing wiped out 99% of my 3DS library... NEVER AGAIN

@Theghostofkeithmoon Missed this reply somehow.

Thank you. ❤️ I think all of us who have considerable backlogs have wondered at times if we're merely slaves to our materialistic impulses. And I definitely think that is a factor, for sure, but, ultimately, there are many, many ways to enjoy the hobby, and not all of them involve the simple act of playing a game to completion.

As long as a person is enjoying their time with the hobby and paying the bills on time, I think whatever way they choose to engage with it is valid.

@Aiodensghost Now that physical game collecting is increasingly become an expensive niche hobby for non-mainstream stuff, you're gonna see more and more releases punted to these small boutique publishers who want to bleed you dry for the chance of owning a game on cartridge.

In fairness, though, you mentioned your 3DS library was "wiped out," but you should be able to redownload your games still, correct?