Everyone's got an opinion on The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. But the real cool nerds are the ones that have opinions on Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, the pair of Wind Waker sequels that used every single mechanic on the DS to great effect.
To put it another way, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks don't get nearly enough column inches, especially these days, now that the DS is a distant, dusty memory. So thank goodness for Liam Triforce, who has just posted a ninety-minute-long deep dive into the two games, and what makes them so fantastic.
Honestly, even being the massive fans of the two games as we are, this video got us feeling like we should boot up the ol' Zelda machine and give them another go. The innovation of the stylus-based gameplay; the draw-your-own-maps; the precision mechanics of the bombchu and boomerang; even the dreaded repeated dungeon — most Zelda games introduce a handful of unique ideas, but these two top-down games were nothing but experimentation.
Of course, it's not all sunshine and rainbows, and Liam Triforce also delves into the more disappointing aspects of the games — largely the uninspired dungeon design in Phantom Hourglass. Still, there are cool mechanics and ideas even in the most boring dungeons, so it's hard to be too put out by it.
If you're a fan of video essays and video games, you'll love this combination of the two. We certainly did.
Is Phantom Hourglass your favourite Zelda? Do you think Spirit Tracks deserves a second look? Let us know in the comments!
Comments 80
Phantom Hourglass is the worst mainline Zelda game ever made. Spirit Tracks rules, though. A wonderful final boss, and no need to return to the same goddamn temple eighteen times. Also the train riding theme might be my second favorite Zelda song after Wind Waker's sailing theme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W_bFLwB0WY
I really like the look of Spirit Tracks, but for some reason have never played it.
I never thought I would see Liam Triforce here. He is seriously one of my favorite creators on the platform. His Metroid Prime Trilogy Retrospective is one of my favorite videos on YouTube. I highly recommend checking him out.
I've tried both games. I still have them both. But I could never really get into them that much. Yeah I could see they're good, but they failed to captivate me like a lot of other Zelda games did.
Then again Skyward Sword had that problem too and then I tried it again on Switch and on there I beat it....
Can't speak to Spirit Tracks, but Phantom Hourglass is exactly appropriately rated. It's not a bad game, but I'd still rank it lower than even the mainline games that I actively dislike.
Phantom Hourglass would be so much better without that wretched dungeon of the ocean king.
And while Spirit Tracks is much better, the spirit pipes mechanic is so frustrating.
They're both good games, and the touch control features are actually pretty cool. But they both have some glaring flaws that are hard to ignore.
I made the horrible mistake of trying to play Spirit Tracks on the Wii U Virtual Console version. The GamePad's mic was too finicky and often didn't behave itself when I needed to blow, the whole game was played looking down at the gamepad since you needed to touch to move, and any sections that used the dual screens as a "tall" display had the effect ruined. Absolutely do not recommend. Play it on a DS.
Ooh, I love Liam Triforce! Great to see his retrospectives get a mention here, would highly recommend his Portal and Metroid Prime ones to start with if you're curious about his channel 👍
On the topic at hand, I've always been incredibly fascinated by this pair of games: a direct sequel (something we don't see incredibly often in Zelda) to one of the most beloved 3D entries in the franchise...... that do something completely different to their predecessor. When I first saw them, I thought the exact same thing everyone else did: this is terrible. However, after watching chuggaaconroy's let's play of PH, I've gone from hating them to finding them incredibly fascinating. I honestly hope they get re-released on Switch because god would I kill to play another 2D Zelda again.
Loved both, superb amd replayed numerous times
Phantom hourglass was my introduction to Zelda games and it was a bit rough at that. I mean I loooved the game until my third visit to the temple gosh I gave up and decided I must be bad at videogames. Now that I see all the hate that temple is getting online I kinda wanna give it another go maybe with a guide next to me.
Both of these games suffer from Nintendo's desperate need to innovate when no innovation was necessary, much like Skyward Sword. As a result, going back to play any of these now feels more like a chore than a trip down memory lane. They're best left in the past.
@Bret Phantom Hourglass isn't a mainline Zelda game. It's a side story.
They're absolutely rated as they should. Good enough games for the DS, but repetitive and limited by the hardware.
Phantom Hourglass is probably the worst Zelda ever made.
THESE of all Zeldas are underrated?🤔🙄 Thank goodness I'm not much of a Zelda fan yet, so both remain among the most highly anticipated entries in my binge.
My problem with both games was having to play completely with the stylus. It got uncomfortable holding the DS a certain way after a while. They were still fun Zelda games though.
the most underrated Zelda games are Orical of Ages and Seasons they are both less played than Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks and less talked about
I played through both of these, though I had to use an emulator for Spirit Tracks because the microphone on my DS just straight up wouldn't work and it's 100% necessary to progress in the game. Even without that inconvenience, I think Spirit Tracks was the worst mainline Zelda game and Phantom Hourglass wasn't far behind. They both had some interesting ideas though and to be honest I'd love to see them get the Link's Awakening Switch remake treatment. I think the best way to fix the games in a remake (aside from taking out any microphone requirements) would be to make them feel less "on rails" (no pun intended). Make the ship in Phantom Hourglass move freely instead of following lines you draw on the map, make the trains in Spirit Tracks a fast travel mechanic rather than the only way to traverse the overworld. A few relatively small changes and suddenly the games are much better.
Oh, this article isn't about Gamelon and FoE... shame on your headline NL.
I loved both of these games, but I can understand why they may not be everyone's cup of tea.
Two of the worst Zeldas can also be said.
I didn't like them; the control with touchscreen Nintendo nonsense did me in.
Same with Twilight Princess and the waggle garbage. Totally ruined it and I quit in about an hour. No sir.
I wasn't a huge fan of the two DS titles and the stylus controls just weren't for me, but I'm going to go ahead and die on this hill.
Spirit Tracks was way, way, way better than Phantom Hourglass.
I watched this video over the weekend. It definitely made me appreciate these games more. I always liked the touch screen puzzles as well as the music and Byrne in Spirit Tracks, but Liam helped me see how Phantom Hourglass had some more clever puzzles than I thought and reminded me of the brilliance of the Sand Temple in Spirit Tracks.
@Bret Minish cap is worse.
Isn't 'cool nerds' an oxymoron?
@EarthboundBenjy it's finicky on the ds too
I love both of these games to this day, and am glad they're part of my collection.
On a slight side note: I really hope we get a Switch remake of Minish Cap someday.
@Strumpan i've seen a lot of wrong things said on this website but never anything this outright false
I love both games! The creativity of Phantom Hourglass makes it a fantastic game IMO. I remember a puzzle that required us to close the DS and open it again, that took me a while to figure out.
@sword_9mm If you're able to, it's super worth playing the Gamecube version of TP. It's fantastic. I also hate motion control nonsense
I prefer Spirit Tracks over Phantom Hourglass. The Tower of Spirits was nowhere near as frustrating as the Temple of the Ocean King in Phantom Hourglass (namely, the time limit for when you're not in safe areas), and this is the first game in the Zelda series outside of the CD-i games where you could play as Zelda herself. Plus, the fact that she was your traveling companion, and not just the goal at the end of the game, was a fresh take on the series.
Finally played PH a couple months ago and it was a great time start to finish. The Temple of the Ocean King is a fun change of pace if you take the time to learn how it works, which naturally many people didn't. Still haven't played ST, but prices on it right now are kind of ridiculous.
That’s weird. This video is about Phantom Hourglass & Spirit Tracks and not the true most underrated, Zelda NES and Zelda II.
@somebread I'm shocked that such an opinion is even allowed. I almost wonder if that statement was a sarcastic remark (Minish Cap is arguably the best 2D Zelda and my personal favorite).
All jokes aside, even the lower ranked Zelda games are gems and I thoroughly enjoyed Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks despite their shortcomings (not counting the CDI games of course!).
I really liked PH, it had its problems but it also had one of my all time favourite Zelda characters (Linebeck). Spirit tracks story was a bit too goofy and I found the overworld with the train mechanic quite boring.
@Maulbert not true... its a mainline Zelda game through and through ... its just that it is a portable Zelda.
Spinoff Zeldas are the Tingle games, Crossbow Training, etc. Things that don't contribute anything to the timeline.
I think oc of time 3ds was my first zelda game, but I played a little bit of phantom hour glass shortly after, and I can’t remember jack, just that moving around that maze sucked lol, but I don’t remember it being that bad.
@YoshiF2 No Ganon. No Triforce. Not a mainline Zelda game.
Bought both at launch and played them as much as I could stand.
Not a fan of either, especially Spirit Tracks.
I consider them spin-off's and if you missed them, it was much more about using the hardware options more than having great gameplay.
I haven't watched the video but I've played both games extensively and played almost every entry in the series. In my opinion, neither game is fantastic. Phantom Hourglass has some redeeming qualities but poor design choices. Spirit Tracks is the worst Zelda game and the only one I didn't bother finishing though I got close to the end. ST is so boring, empty, repetitive and frustrating towards the end. I had fun even with Chibi Robo Zip Lash but really struggled with Spirit Tracks.
@Maulbert Phantom Hourglass is not a spin off, wtf. It's even a direct sequel to Wind Waker. How is it a spin off??? It doesn't need to have Ganon or the Triforce to be a mainline game. Literally half of the franchise then suddenly would be spin offs, despite being called "The Legend of Zelda", being of the same genre and having Link with a sword saving the world.
Why are there constantly people thinking certain mainline Zelda games are spin offs? There are 19 mainline Zelda games and all games that start with "The Legend of Zelda" are mainline games. Zelda II is the only mainline game that doesn't have that.
Phantom Hourglass was my first Zelda game and is my current favorite Zelda game...I'm not as fond of Spirit Tracks, mainly because I feel the puzzles became more difficult and the flute mechanic wasn't as reliable as I would've liked. I do want to revisit Spirit Tracks though and do want to replay Phantom Hourglass again too.
@BTB20 I admit spinoff was a bad choice of word, but no Ganon, no Triforce. Not a mainline Zelda game. It's a side story. The only mainline Zelda games are The Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, The Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, A Link Between Worlds, and Breath of the Wild. That's it. And that's coming from someone who's favorite Zelda game is Majora's Mask.
i played both of these as a kid, and while i have more fond memories with PH i think ST cuts more of the fat and has more unique settings and characters
These two games are underrated, and I think PH gets a lot more hate than it really needs, for a game that experimented with a rogue-lite dungeon.
As sequels to TWW, underwhelming for sure. However, it doesn't necessarily mean these games are bad.
I think Phantom Hourglass has a lot to like about it but between the Temple of the Ocean King and the controls it's kind of just too much of a grind to bother with.
Never really messed with Spirit Tracks.
@Maulbert bad news about majora's mask chap
@somebread I didn't say it was mainline.
I loved both games when they were launched.
Real reason people didn't like them was because of graphics. Even Zelda fans who had played Twilight Princess and Wind Waker thought graphics were everything and didn't give them a chance just because NDS graphics weren't as shiny as console releases.
People talking bad about the Ocean King dungeon didn't understand what it was about.
Maybe nintendo should port it with the option to play the game normally with nintendo switch buttons.
And wind wakers is my 2nd favorites zelda, with the first being zelda ocarina of time, I played the remastered version until I finished it on my wii u back then 😃
Never played Spirit Tracks but I absolutely hated Phantom Hourglass. Not more than I hated The Adventure of Link, but close.
Terrible DS graphics with washed out colors, overworld like a very boring version of The Wind Waker with low draw distance and enemies everywhere, that one neverending repeated stressful dungeon with the Phantoms, and on top of all of that just generally mediocre in terms of the normal Zelda things. Also the stylus control was "well done" in that it worked, but just using an analog stick still would have been better.
I liked PH and ST a lot, but I couldn't do the stylus controls. I had to play them with ROM hacks/PAR codes that let you control with d-pad + buttons, like Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland did.
300% better that way.
@Maulbert So then Zelda 2 should be a mainline game, since it has both the Triforce and Ganon (in fact, it was this game that introduced us to the Triforce of Courage). Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, and Breath of the Wild don't have the Triforce, so aren't "mainline games", by your definition. Skyward Sword doesn't have Ganon.
@Maulbert LMAO… do you know how many Zelda games doesn’t even have the Triforce OR Ganon? By your logic there’s more spin-offs than mainline Zelda games.
If it’s in the timeline it’s a mainline game.
Spin-offs are games that don’t contribute anything or are just mini games or about characters different than Link, then sure, it’s a spin-off
You’re the first and only person I’ve heard that his rule is “no Ganon, no triforce = spinoff”
Just imagine how boring The Legend of Zelda would be if only Ganon was the villain…
@Bret couldn’t agree more, no way I’ll ever play Phantom Hourglass again, the stealth sections are awful and that main temple is a pain. It also didn’t introduce any new items. Spirit Tracks didn’t have any of the flaws that PH had, and yeah the music’s great.
Unlike the majority here I didn’t mind the touch controls.
They’re cool for what they are, Zelda games that are playable via stylus, but I personally find them painful to play. I don’t see myself replaying either unless they’re remade with traditional controls in-mind.
@CharlieGirl You perfectly nailed the two things that frustrated me most about both games. That darn Ocean King Dungeon (which was also the reason why my mother couldn't play the game cause she is bad with time trails so stunk for that as well) and I don't think I have ever been more frustrated by something that looks so simple as attempting to play that darn Pan flute.
That being said other than PH being a little lite on content I personally love both games.
There is a shocking amount of variety between the Zeldas. Its fun that they all elicit unique responses and opinions from Zelda's fanbase. I really enjoyed PH because of the controls. Not too many action adventure games that work that well with almost completely being touch controls. Additionally, I found that I could do a couple crazy things that could only be done in PH. There were moments when I felt like a telekinetic demigod.
@YoshiF2 I never said the others WEREN'T Zelda games, just not mainline games. And I clarified not spinoffs, but side stories. Jesus, you're obtuse.
I completed Spirit Tracks and liked it, never played PH. I think the Wind Waker Trilogy is Just too long in general. Everything after your first Hyrule Castle visit in WW is a big waste of time.
Wow. I'm impressed you showed this video. He is a really good creator and has some other amazing vids too.
I loved PH in 07 but I was caught up in the hype of a touch screen Zelda that was a WW follow up as well as having just beaten WW, TP and FSA for the first time. The giant temple bugged me but I enjoyed it as it felt different.
Then 2 years later ST came out and I gave up on a pipe blowing sequence. It just wasn't reliable enough and I gave up, much like mine cart jumping on SS.
I've gone back to them this year. Only played PH so far and I've liked it, but the temple is still really frustrating even when you knew what you were doing. However be warned of this.
If you are playing on a New 2DS XL, the built in mic is terrible. I've had to use a regular phone microphone. I dread to think what ST will be like but PH is far worse on this one. They must have changed the sensitivity of it.
I played and enjoyed Phantom Hourglass. It was the first DS game I played. I got it together with the DS as a Christmas present. The controls of the game were really fun and the adventure felt lighthearted. The online game was also cool. If I remember correctly there were rewards for getting achievements.
I am looking forward to play Spirit Tracks. Seems also like a fun adventure.
Never played either, but my favorite streamer Deebeegeek is currently playing Phantom Hourglass on his Twitch. (Look him up on YouTube if you'd rather watch the edited-down streams.) This is like the third time I've plugged his content, but I'm telling you, he's so worth the watch! Incredibly wholesome and funny Irish dude who stopped playing Nintendo games when the Genesis released, now going back and catching up on all the Nintendo goodness he missed. Please check him out so you can fall in love with his content like I did!
Sorry to go against the flow - but I loved both. Phantom Hourglass was the first Zelda I ever completed, and I've completed many since.
Not once did I think it was a significantly worst experience than the many later (or earlier) Zelda games I've played and completed - and I've completed many of the so-called 'best' in the series at this point. I also loved the stylus controls on both games and had no great issue with 'that' Temple.
I'm just balancing up the view - and not challenging other's negative experience.
@Maulbert WHERE did you clarify the “side stories” part? I’m not going through all your comments. If you weren’t clear from the get go it was your fault. Not mine.
Don’t expect people to read your mind when you suddenly exchange terms that have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT meanings.
Dont go calling people “obtuse” when you were clearly in the wrong from the beginning. Jesus…. 🤦♂️
@StarPoint Same here, fantastic content! Love his videos so much
@Maulbert There are no side story Zelda games, only main titles and spin offs. Everything in the timeline, even games like Four Swords and Triforce Heroes are main titles. Nintendo has never put it any other way and they haven't and probably never will state that the lack of Ganon or the triforce determines which are side stories...unless you can send proof where they said otherwise??
@Bret I hate to be that guy, but you only need to visit the Temple of the Ocean King a minimum of five times, whereas you have to explore the Tower of Spirits six times o__o
Blowing into a microphone is the dumbest and most inconsistent gimmick ever seen in a significant game series.
FAIL
My least favorite Zelda games aside from the NES originals, and at least those had the excuse of primitive hardware 😂
I'm not convinced that it's worth my time to watch the video.
Liam Triforce makes amazing videos!
@Manxman64
I've heard it's a good game; waggle just ruined it.
I still want a new top down Zelda game. I'm done with the 3d nonsense (all around not just Zelda). Best Zelda in the last 10 years is the remake of Link's Awakening. The 3d games just aren't near as good. Too bad N can't go back.
Good thing I said "two of the most underrated Zeldas" and not "THE most underrated Zeldas", eh?
@LXP8 Seriously? I barely remember. That's hilarious. I guess what I really hated about Phantom Hourglass was the stealth more than the repetition.
@Maulbert My dude, Nintendo has put out an official timeline. Anything on it is a mainline game.
I greatly disliked both of these games.
The touch gimmick was fine, but in Phantom Hourglass I hated going back to that annoying stealth dungeon over & over again.... Then in Spirit Tracks, I felt like most of the time I was stuck driving a train, not my idea of a Zelda game. I finished them both, but will not be playing them again. Sorry DS era!
I will definitely watch this. I loved those two episodes, the tactile gameplay was amazing and the graphics were top notch for the hardware. I really liked the big dungeon of the first game, it gave the game a bit of a challenge. You have to travel it several times, but each time you have new items which opens new paths, and shortcuts.
Spirit Tracks was a bit less inspired with its train, but it was still a very solid game with a few enhancements here and there.
I enjoyed them back in the day and have them on the WiiU but with so many games unfortunately may not get around to them again.
Preposterous to say there not mainline however compared to other Zelda I will be honest good but below average
Nice to see one of Liam's retrospectives get shown off in an article from Nintendo Life of all things... Expect the unexpected?
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